1 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:07,050 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,380 --> 00:00:09,690 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed is approaching its third birthday, and for the 3 00:00:09,690 --> 00:00:12,450 Sean Aylmer: last couple of years, it's been firmly in the startup 4 00:00:12,450 --> 00:00:15,660 Sean Aylmer: phase of its existence. But as we grow, the focus 5 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:19,680 Sean Aylmer: shifts from startup to scaleup. It begs the question, how 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,870 Sean Aylmer: do we do it? How do you take an existing 7 00:00:21,870 --> 00:00:24,600 Sean Aylmer: business and get it to that next level? Annie Le 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,050 Sean Aylmer: Cavalier is the Director of Strategic Growth Programs at Stone & 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,800 Sean Aylmer: Chalk, Australia's largest innovation community. Annie will also be a 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,920 Sean Aylmer: judge in the startup component of the Accounting Business Expo 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,020 Sean Aylmer: this week in Melbourne, which is a supporter of this 12 00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:38,640 Sean Aylmer: podcast. Annie, welcome to Fear & Greed. 13 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,060 Annie Le Cavalier: Hi, Sean. Lovely to be here. Thanks for having me. 14 00:00:42,750 --> 00:00:45,540 Sean Aylmer: No problems. In a nutshell, Tell me the Stone & Chalk story. 15 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,909 Annie Le Cavalier: Okay. Well, Stone & Chalk was created in 2015. It was 16 00:00:50,909 --> 00:00:55,230 Annie Le Cavalier: born out of a committee for Sydney commissioned a report, 17 00:00:55,410 --> 00:00:59,580 Annie Le Cavalier: which was authored by KPMG, looking at unlocking Sydney's FinTech 18 00:00:59,580 --> 00:01:03,870 Annie Le Cavalier: potential. They did a comparative view globally, and there was 19 00:01:03,870 --> 00:01:06,450 Annie Le Cavalier: a series of recommendations that were put forward in that 20 00:01:06,450 --> 00:01:09,390 Annie Le Cavalier: report. One of them was that a center of gravity 21 00:01:09,390 --> 00:01:12,479 Annie Le Cavalier: needed to be established and it needed to be independent, 22 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:15,539 Annie Le Cavalier: not for profit and industry led, which is where our 23 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:18,929 Annie Le Cavalier: model comes from. So that was back in 2015. We 24 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:24,000 Annie Le Cavalier: have since become Australia's largest innovation community. So we've broadened 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,589 Annie Le Cavalier: out beyond FinTech into all emerging tech sectors, everything from 26 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:33,240 Annie Le Cavalier: cybersecurity, PropTech, Web 3, AI, et cetera. 27 00:01:33,540 --> 00:01:36,750 Sean Aylmer: So you're broadened out there. What are the services you're offering? 28 00:01:37,230 --> 00:01:39,810 Annie Le Cavalier: Yes, so essentially what we foster as a community of 29 00:01:39,810 --> 00:01:45,780 Annie Le Cavalier: founders, mentors, experts, corporates, partners and collaborators to help entrepreneurs 30 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:49,620 Annie Le Cavalier: and businesses to build, grow and commercialize their ideas. So 31 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:52,380 Annie Le Cavalier: ensuring that essentially they have everything that they need to 32 00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:55,980 Annie Le Cavalier: adapt and thrive in an age of technological disruption. So 33 00:01:55,980 --> 00:02:00,180 Annie Le Cavalier: some of the things that we offer include community infrastructure, 34 00:02:00,180 --> 00:02:05,340 Annie Le Cavalier: mentoring and advice, capital and funding, customer markets, access, people 35 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:10,710 Annie Le Cavalier: and culture, global expansion, office space and a whole range of 36 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:13,770 Annie Le Cavalier: connections to industry, government, potential customers. 37 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,770 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's look at the startups first. I mean, 38 00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:21,780 Sean Aylmer: has the last decade or so been a golden age 39 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:24,780 Sean Aylmer: of startups? Was COVID a disaster for startups or actually 40 00:02:25,169 --> 00:02:29,940 Sean Aylmer: a boom for startups? From your viewpoint at Stone & Chalk, 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,700 Sean Aylmer: how do you think the startup community in Australia is traveling? 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,750 Annie Le Cavalier: Oh, look, I think we're definitely seeing that maturity really 43 00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:40,110 Annie Le Cavalier: come to light. I was involved in setting up the 44 00:02:40,110 --> 00:02:44,610 Annie Le Cavalier: first co- work space in Australia way back in 2008, 45 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:47,730 Annie Le Cavalier: and so we have come an extremely long way since 46 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:50,700 Annie Le Cavalier: then. In terms of at Stone & Chalk, we have over 47 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:55,290 Annie Le Cavalier: 600 residents across our different businesses, and whilst COVID was 48 00:02:55,290 --> 00:02:57,990 Annie Le Cavalier: definitely a trying period, I think startups have come out 49 00:02:57,990 --> 00:03:02,639 Annie Le Cavalier: really much more resilient. There's increased diversity in terms of 50 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,510 Annie Le Cavalier: gender, race, ethnicity, the rise of new technologies such as 51 00:03:06,510 --> 00:03:09,690 Annie Le Cavalier: AI, blockchain, internet of things. It's opened up a whole 52 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:13,619 Annie Le Cavalier: world of new opportunities for founders to create some really 53 00:03:13,620 --> 00:03:19,230 Annie Le Cavalier: innovative solutions to existing problems. The funding landscape has evolved 54 00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:21,600 Annie Le Cavalier: over the years and there's been a real rise of 55 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,639 Annie Le Cavalier: number of VC firms, angel investors, crowdfunding platforms and other non- 56 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,929 Annie Le Cavalier: dilutive forms of funding as well. Yeah, so really it's 57 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:36,060 Annie Le Cavalier: an industry that's just vastly growing and evolving every year. 58 00:03:36,570 --> 00:03:40,080 Sean Aylmer: So is there some sort of common characteristics in startups? I mean, 59 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,670 Sean Aylmer: do you look at a startup and say, " Yep, you've 60 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:45,330 Sean Aylmer: got it, you'll make it." Or is vice versa, you 61 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:47,160 Sean Aylmer: look at something and say, " You've got no chance"? Is 62 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,150 Sean Aylmer: there something, some characteristic that stands out in startups? 63 00:03:51,660 --> 00:03:54,000 Annie Le Cavalier: Oh, look, there's many. I suppose a couple that I 64 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,170 Annie Le Cavalier: would call out are founder passion. So a real passion 65 00:03:58,230 --> 00:04:01,320 Annie Le Cavalier: to solving a particular problem. Typically a founder will have 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,800 Annie Le Cavalier: a deep expertise in that problem and solving that particular 67 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,240 Annie Le Cavalier: thing and just a commitment to just keep sort of 68 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:13,020 Annie Le Cavalier: pushing through. Founders need a lot of resilience. There's just 69 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:16,920 Annie Le Cavalier: so many obstacles along the way. So yeah, real clear 70 00:04:16,950 --> 00:04:21,390 Annie Le Cavalier: vision, a path to get there, goals and objectives, and 71 00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:23,820 Annie Le Cavalier: obviously that will change along the way, but a real 72 00:04:24,029 --> 00:04:27,659 Annie Le Cavalier: commitment to sort of pushing through and solving that problem 73 00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:28,680 Annie Le Cavalier: and bringing it to market. 74 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:31,140 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Annie will be back in a minute. 75 00:04:37,830 --> 00:04:41,040 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Annie Le Cavalier, Director of 76 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,020 Sean Aylmer: Strategic Growth Programs at Stone & Chalk. Okay. So during the 77 00:04:46,020 --> 00:04:48,960 Sean Aylmer: introduction, I talked about scaleup and how Fear & Greed, we've 78 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,229 Sean Aylmer: been going three years. We're looking at scaling up. What 79 00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:54,900 Sean Aylmer: is it mean? How are the needs of scaleups different 80 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:55,860 Sean Aylmer: to those that are startup? 81 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,130 Annie Le Cavalier: Yeah, so I guess a scaleup, essentially, it's like when 82 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:02,220 Annie Le Cavalier: a founder's business is now looking for new markets and 83 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:06,390 Annie Le Cavalier: increasing the diversity of their product types. So it's about 84 00:05:06,779 --> 00:05:11,610 Annie Le Cavalier: expansion and growth. So typically a scaleup, they've basically moved 85 00:05:11,610 --> 00:05:14,310 Annie Le Cavalier: from working in the business to working on the business. 86 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:18,060 Annie Le Cavalier: So they've established clear pathways to market. They've solidified a 87 00:05:18,060 --> 00:05:22,410 Annie Le Cavalier: consistent revenue stream or streams. They've got a scalable business 88 00:05:22,410 --> 00:05:25,500 Annie Le Cavalier: model, but there's still a long to- do list. They're 89 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:29,099 Annie Le Cavalier: thinking about things like board of directors, hiring a board 90 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:33,300 Annie Le Cavalier: of directors, ongoing PR exposure, planning and forecasting for their 91 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:39,180 Annie Le Cavalier: investors, international expansion, infrastructure to scale. They need to create 92 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:42,870 Annie Le Cavalier: policies, recruit senior staff, those sorts of things. 93 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:47,250 Sean Aylmer: I mean, a very different mindset, I would imagine, though, 94 00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:49,320 Sean Aylmer: to actually starting up the business, particularly if you have 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,489 Sean Aylmer: a passion for whatever product or service you're providing, being 96 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:55,140 Sean Aylmer: able to do all those things you are talking about 97 00:05:55,140 --> 00:05:56,130 Sean Aylmer: is a different skillset. 98 00:05:56,790 --> 00:05:59,880 Annie Le Cavalier: Absolutely. Founders have to wear all the hats as they 99 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,910 Annie Le Cavalier: grow their business. So sometimes a company gets to a 100 00:06:02,910 --> 00:06:06,239 Annie Le Cavalier: certain size and the founder realizes that they're just not 101 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,690 Annie Le Cavalier: the best person to take that organization forward or to 102 00:06:09,690 --> 00:06:13,890 Annie Le Cavalier: continue taking that organization forward. So sometimes those tough decisions 103 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,380 Annie Le Cavalier: do need to be made, but obviously there's a lot 104 00:06:16,380 --> 00:06:19,890 Annie Le Cavalier: of learning along that growth journey, and so founders do 105 00:06:19,950 --> 00:06:23,159 Annie Le Cavalier: become quite adept across lots of different areas as they 106 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,210 Annie Le Cavalier: scale the business. 107 00:06:24,630 --> 00:06:26,370 Sean Aylmer: Is Australia good at startups, do you think? 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,570 Annie Le Cavalier: Absolutely. We have some of the most innovative companies coming 109 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:33,810 Annie Le Cavalier: out of Australia. I don't have the stats, but the 110 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:36,900 Annie Le Cavalier: number of unicorns that are coming out of Australia is 111 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,050 Annie Le Cavalier: we are absolutely punching well above our weight. 112 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:44,190 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Are there certain areas that we're better? I mean, technology's 113 00:06:44,190 --> 00:06:46,470 Sean Aylmer: very broad. I mean, there seems to be a lot 114 00:06:46,470 --> 00:06:48,960 Sean Aylmer: of FinTechs out there for example. I know Stone & Chalk 115 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,989 Sean Aylmer: goes well beyond FinTechs, but there seems to be a 116 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:54,479 Sean Aylmer: lot of FinTechs out there. Are there certain sectors that 117 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:55,500 Sean Aylmer: we're just particularly good at? 118 00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:00,660 Annie Le Cavalier: Look, I think each geography has its specific sectors that 119 00:07:00,660 --> 00:07:03,990 Annie Le Cavalier: they are doubling down on. So for example, in Sydney, 120 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:06,150 Annie Le Cavalier: it was created as a FinTech innovation hub. So we 121 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:09,270 Annie Le Cavalier: definitely have a lot of FinTech in Sydney. Same with 122 00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:15,150 Annie Le Cavalier: Melbourne. Melbourne is very good at FinTech, life sciences, sports 123 00:07:15,150 --> 00:07:19,710 Annie Le Cavalier: tech and agriculture as well, AgTech. In South Australia, the 124 00:07:19,710 --> 00:07:23,790 Annie Le Cavalier: focus is on space tech, defense tech and AI. So 125 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,870 Annie Le Cavalier: again, each geography has their particular strengths, and those respective 126 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:32,760 Annie Le Cavalier: governments are doing what they can to support and bolster 127 00:07:32,820 --> 00:07:34,170 Annie Le Cavalier: those sectors. 128 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:36,960 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So how important is the role of government in this? 129 00:07:37,050 --> 00:07:39,600 Sean Aylmer: There's no value judgment in terms of what governments are 130 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,500 Sean Aylmer: doing now, but just the role of government needed to 131 00:07:43,890 --> 00:07:50,130 Sean Aylmer: establish an environment in South Australia where defence capabilities are 132 00:07:50,130 --> 00:07:53,490 Sean Aylmer: part of it, the medical capabilities in Brisbane, the FinTechs 133 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:55,500 Sean Aylmer: in Melbourne and Sydney. How important is government? 134 00:07:56,670 --> 00:08:00,330 Annie Le Cavalier: Look, I would say government is incredibly important to lay 135 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,860 Annie Le Cavalier: down that infrastructure and those rails that will provide the 136 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:08,280 Annie Le Cavalier: support for the startups to grow. So any geography that 137 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,850 Annie Le Cavalier: we go into, we typically partner with government initially to 138 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:15,540 Annie Le Cavalier: really foster that early stage of the ecosystem and until 139 00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:19,680 Annie Le Cavalier: that maturity gets built up. So absolutely, government is critical 140 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,890 Annie Le Cavalier: to the success of its startup industry. 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,980 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So what now for Stone & Chalk? You keep doing 142 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:28,560 Sean Aylmer: what you are doing, but I mean, Stone & Chalk itself 143 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:34,230 Sean Aylmer: has been very successful, and it's working with increasingly larger 144 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,450 Sean Aylmer: corporates, which I suppose is a function when you start 145 00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:38,670 Sean Aylmer: up with them, you go on the journey with them. 146 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,349 Sean Aylmer: What next for Stone & Chalk? 147 00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:44,970 Annie Le Cavalier: Our mission is to transform Australia into a sustainable technology 148 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:49,290 Annie Le Cavalier: driven economy. So we're here to support startup, scaleups, corporations 149 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:52,949 Annie Le Cavalier: and government at every stage of their innovation journey. So 150 00:08:52,950 --> 00:08:57,420 Annie Le Cavalier: for us, it's really important to be national and international. 151 00:08:57,420 --> 00:09:01,740 Annie Le Cavalier: So there's various conversations happening. We're opening new startup and 152 00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:05,280 Annie Le Cavalier: scaleup hubs across the country to meet the evolving needs 153 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,540 Annie Le Cavalier: of our thriving community. 154 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:09,360 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic. Annie, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 155 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:12,120 Annie Le Cavalier: Thank you so much for having me on the show. 156 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:16,439 Sean Aylmer: That was Annie Le Cavalier, Director of Strategic Growth Programs 157 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,650 Sean Aylmer: at Stone & Chalk. Annie will be at the Accounting Business 158 00:09:19,650 --> 00:09:21,719 Sean Aylmer: Expo in Melbourne this week, which is a supporter of 159 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,290 Sean Aylmer: this podcast. Just search Accounting Business Expo for more. This 160 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:27,569 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear & Greed daily interview. Join us every morning 161 00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:30,360 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's most popular 162 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,119 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.