1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for downloading the show, and also thank you 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: for the messages about Wednesday's episode with Diane Young. She 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: is one of the all time grades, absolutely one of 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: the all time grades when it comes to addiction treatment. 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: If you haven't heard the episode, it's an absolute cracker, 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: one of the two that we recorded live at south 7 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: By Southwest. It was really good and there's something in 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: there though that she and I talked about that I 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: did want to expand on a bit, and that is 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: looking at addiction through the perspective of the addict, and like, 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: since I started speaking about this kind of stuff, people 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: do reach out to me quite often. I did a 13 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: gig the other day and people email that DMed afterwards 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: asking about their brother, their mum, their husband, their son, 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: their daughter, whatever. And I do try to email and 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: DM people back. But I did also want to make 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: an episode I think that could hopefully serve as something 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: that could be useful to people, something you could send 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: to someone you know who's going through this kind of stuff. 20 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: And I'll get into that, but we do need to 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: keep the lights on here. So a word from our 22 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: sponsors back after the brain gooday, thanks for listening to 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: the show. It's better than yesterday, helping you make today 24 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: better than yesterday. Since twenty thirteen. My name's Osha Ginsberg. 25 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: I'm a podcaster. I am a best telling author, a husband, 26 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: a dad, a stepdad, a tradesman, wrangler, a compost stirer, 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: a watcher of Nordic noir. Show is late at night 28 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: when my family is asleep, with my airports in so 29 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: I don't make people up. That's great, and thank you 30 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: so much for being here. If you do need to 31 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: get in touch, you can do that Osha Ginsburg dot com. 32 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: Hit the contact form and you can shoot me in 33 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: an email. Plus you can get on the mailing list there, 34 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: which is about to play a bigger part, a bigger 35 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: part in what we do here. More about that later. 36 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: So Wednesday with Diane Young, that was one of the 37 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: great ones. Really was second time she's been on the show. 38 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: Just stellar stuff to put out into the world. A 39 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: huge part of why I started this show in the 40 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: first place was to have conversations like that in the 41 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: public space because addiction is really misunderstood. I misunderstood addiction. Yeah, 42 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: it's understood not just by people who are in the 43 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: grip of it, but also people who are affected by it. 44 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: People on the other side of it, people who can't 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: understand why why can't they just stop placing multi bets 46 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: that pay off huge if only this particular horse comes 47 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: in third. In Hong Kong, a Tai band midton match 48 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: ends in a ten point difference and the Roosters miss 49 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: their first field goal on next Sunday's game, Like, why 50 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: can't they stop doing that? It's way worse when the 51 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: people who are involved and people you actually really care about, 52 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: especially when it's got to the point where you're having 53 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: like tear field ultimatums that are getting thrown around, and 54 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: yet the person who's struggling just keeps on going and going. 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. If you've ever been in 56 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: trouble in the surf, and I have in a scary way, 57 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: if you've ever been in trouble in big surf, maybe 58 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: you pull outside the flag by a rip, or you're 59 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: gone beyond weak touch and you're just getting smashed by 60 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: the waves, not being able to come up for breath, 61 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: You're getting held down going through the washing machine, that 62 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: angry ocean, the power of the water. You just can't 63 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: overcome it, no matter how hard you swim. That's a 64 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: little what like addiction is you know you're going to 65 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: die if you don't get out of the water, but 66 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: part of you is convinced that staying in the water 67 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: is the only option you've got. You simply, you couldn't 68 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: possibly get out, You couldn't get out back on the beach. 69 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: That's kind of what it's like when you're in it 70 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: every day. Really, it's a kind of a struggle against 71 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: this overwhelming force. You know that it's destructive, yet it's 72 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: utterly irresistible. Now to comprehend why someone that you love 73 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: would continue down that path despite knowing the consequences, you 74 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of have to know a little bit more about 75 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: what's going on for a person when I do become 76 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: addicted because things like alcohol or drugs, or behaviors like 77 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: gambling or porn or shopping, even excessive screen time. To 78 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: be honest, those things what they do is they trigger 79 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: a powerful release of a neurotransmitter called dopamine in the brain. 80 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: You know it's a neurotransmitter. It's called the feel good chemical, right. 81 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: Dopamine is actually so much more than just feeling good, though, 82 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: it's incredibly important for lots of things. You control your 83 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: muscles because dopamine is involved Parkinson's disease. That is, if 84 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: you've ever seen or know someone or know what Parkinson's 85 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: disease is, that is the what the loss of dopamine 86 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: producing neurons can lead to. Tremors happen. The moving's very difficult, 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: so don't means really important. It's also really important when 88 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: it comes to mood regulation, and when your dopamine levels 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: are low, that can really get your stuck in feelings 90 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: of sadness or depression or anxiety even and yeah, dopamine 91 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: plays an absolutely vital role in the reward system in 92 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: our brain. When you get a burst of so I 93 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: don't know, say you're in high school and you stayed 94 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: real hard and you've got ninety five percent on the test. 95 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: You thought you only get ninety You've got ninety five. 96 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: You feel amazing, and now you want to work hard 97 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: again because you want more of this amazing feeling. And it, 98 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, in a positive way. It sets off this 99 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: fantastic loop of wanting to put in the effort to 100 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: get the reward, and it's really important. However, when you 101 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: hit the jackpot on the more Chili machine, the lights flashing, 102 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: the bells, ringing, the all that everything feels perfect for 103 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: just a moment, that incredible rush of elation, that that 104 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: feeling comes to you without the work involved, and that 105 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: is actually a big part of the problem. But once 106 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: you started to feel that huge artificial rush, that reward 107 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: without the work, that's also an enormous relief from emotional pain. Okay, 108 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: particularly if you've gone through anything, and that relief from 109 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: that pain is just ah, so delightful. But then very 110 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: quickly the pain comes back, so you do it again 111 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: and again and again. Yeah, when we take that drink, 112 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: or we slap the trainee's laptop, or we bet that 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: multi it feels less and less awesome every time because 114 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: their brain's starting to adapt. Right over time, we need 115 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: more of the substance or the behavior or the thing 116 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: to achieve that same feeling of ah, amazing. We build 117 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: up a tolerance to the thing, so we need more 118 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: of it. It was I believe w Axl Rose from 119 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: Guns n' Roses who said, I used to do a little, 120 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: but the little wouldn't do it, So the little got 121 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: more and more. I just keep trying to get a 122 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: little better, just a little better than before. Yeah, I mean, yeah, 123 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: he said the other pretty weird shit, but that was 124 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: a good one. What's really quite dastardly about what happens 125 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: with your dopamine and the tolerance levels is, at the 126 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: same time we're reducing our ability to release more dopamae 127 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: when this thing comes at us, our brain's natural ability 128 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: to produce it and to respond to do foramine actually 129 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: starts to diminish. So we're no longer just trying to 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: feel amazing, just trying to feel oh awesome, We're just 131 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: trying to feel anywhere near normal, just to feel that 132 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: we now need to do this thing more and more 133 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: and more, and that's how we get stuck in a 134 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: state of dependence. Now, at this point, you or the 135 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: person that you love, they're not just chasing a high. 136 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: That's not it at all. The addictive behavior is now 137 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: about just trying to avoid the pain and the low 138 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: of withdrawal, and it's that hijacking, that neurological hijacking, which 139 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: is what makes stopping or quitting very very difficult. Addiction 140 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: isn't just about I don't know, like a poor choice 141 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: of mates or dumb ideas or Addiction is most definitely 142 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: not lack of willpower. It's a really interesting overlapping ven 143 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: diagram of brain chemistry and genetics and environment and history. 144 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: And if you throw in trauma, particularly childhood trauma, the 145 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: research is strong in that it significantly increases the risk 146 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: of developing addictive behavior as you get older. It's horrible 147 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: to contemplate, yet we all know that it happens. Little 148 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: kids experience trauma, and when kids' brains are developing and 149 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: they have a traumatic experience, it impacts the way their 150 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: brain develops, and that trauma can lead to changes in 151 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: their stress response. I've spoken about trauma responses a couple 152 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: of weeks back, my particular one that I discovered most recently, 153 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: which as well, the trauma leads to changes and how 154 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: you respond to stress and also how your reward pathways work. 155 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: So these substances or the behaviors and things, they provide 156 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: temporary relief from this discomfort, and it's extraordinarily enticing. It's 157 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: really hard to not chase because the addictive behavior becomes 158 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: a way to numb emotional pain to a number anxiety 159 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: in numb depression. And even though the drinking or the 160 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: using or whatever is destructive, even though they know that 161 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: the alternative facing the flashbacks, facing the raw, unfiltered emotions, 162 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: the memories, the consequences of your choices that feel way 163 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: way worse, And so they go back to it. And 164 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: even though we might be really fucking pissed off of 165 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: the person that we love who's destroying themselves and arks 166 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: and everything, from a psychological standpoint, it's really hard to do, 167 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: but it's actually really important to try to remember the 168 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: addiction is actually the best idea they've got. It's the 169 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: coping mechanism. It's a momentary respite from that pain. However, 170 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: it is like using a bucket on the carpet to 171 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: deal with a leak in your roof. All right, it's 172 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: a temporary fix, yes, but it doesn't address the root cause. 173 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: It offers an immediate but fleeting respite from your problem, 174 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: Yet soon enough the bucket will fill up and you're 175 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: carpet will once again be in peril. Similarly, like eventually 176 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: you're going to sober up, you're going to straighten up, 177 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: and the problems that you were drinking and using around 178 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: are still going to be there, and you're also dealing 179 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: with a withdrawal or a come down or something it's 180 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: nasty stuff, especially if your way to deal with those uncomfortable, 181 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: nasty feelings is to do more of the thing, like it, 182 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: it's fucked. And then the whole time the addicts just 183 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: causing calamity to themselves and the people around them, all 184 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: just trying to feel normal, just not even high anymore, 185 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: just trying to feel okay. When this is happening to 186 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: someone that you love or someone that you're close to, 187 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: it's understandable. It feels right to give ultimatums because when 188 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, when they were younger, or when you were younger. 189 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: I did it the other day, mate. If you touch 190 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: that remote and turn the TV on, we are going 191 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: out the door right now. If you turn that TV 192 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: back on, there is no TV when we come home tonight. 193 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: Do you understand? TV goes on? All right? There's get works, 194 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: all right. Ultimatums work when they're little, right. Yet when 195 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: we give ultimatums from a place of desperation or a 196 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: place of frustration, they can actually perpetuate the shame and 197 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: the isolation that fuels the addiction, because that gets in 198 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: there as well. So I know it's so hard that 199 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: if someone that you love is actually going through this. 200 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: If you think about addiction not as a moral failing 201 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: or failing of you as a parent or a partner, 202 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: like I'm a terrible husband or wife, or I'm a 203 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: chit dad because my son or daughter has ended up 204 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: doing this. Try not to think of it as a 205 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: moral failing of anyone involved, but a chronic condition something 206 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: like diabetes, all right. You wouldn't tell your son with 207 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: type one diabetes, hey, buddy, just produce more insulin please, 208 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: like they can't do it. That's the same thing as 209 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: saying to someone who's an addicts like, can you stop using? 210 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: Because it ignores everything else that's going on, which are 211 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: often things that are hard to get your head around. 212 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: To be stuck in it, to be from the other side, 213 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: it's it's horrible. I have been so hammered, like pouring 214 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: whiskey with one eye because if I do it with 215 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: two eyes open, I can't focus. Right sitting there with 216 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: this glass of whisky in my hand, acutely aware that 217 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: what I'm doing is destroying my health, destroying my relationships, 218 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: detroying my finances, detroying my career. Yet I can't not 219 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: do it. The compulsion to do this damaging thing is 220 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: bigger than all of those feelings, and where those two 221 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: feelings meet but in a conflict is That's one of 222 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: the curt hallmarks I guess of addiction. It's like being 223 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: in the below decks on the Titanic and using a 224 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: bucket to bail water out of a porthole. You know 225 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: it's futile, but that's the only thing you've got with you, 226 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: and it's the only idea you've got that will make 227 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: it a little bit better, and so you do it. 228 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: It's a very uncomfortable place to be because you're also 229 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: dealing with the cognitive dissonance of holding these two conflicting 230 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: ideas in your head at the same time, the clash 231 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: between knowing that what you're doing is destroying you and 232 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: everything around you, but also this intense, uncontrollable, unavoidable urge 233 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: to keep doing this thing, and that cognitive distance that 234 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: kicks off guilt and shame and self loathing, which you 235 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: conveniently are probably holding a solution for in your hand 236 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: in a frothy canif SuDS or a gambling apple or whatever, 237 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: and that further entrenches this cycle that you're stuck. In 238 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: the other layer to this, which is insidious. Is this 239 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: illusion of control? You've probably I've said it, You've probably 240 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: heard someone you love say it. You might have said 241 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: it yourself. Oh gonn to stop anytime I want. It's 242 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: a very powerful belief in but you feel it's completely true. 243 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: Yet I've come to learn that that is just a 244 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: defense mechanism. It's my self esteem trying to protect itself 245 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: because admitting that lack of control is terrifying because it 246 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: means that I need help, and I don't want to 247 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: be a kind of person that needs help. And so 248 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: this illusion, you know, it is very convincing, and it's 249 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: a huge reason why I didn't stop for a long time, 250 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: and why many people don't go get help. It all 251 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: sounds pretty bleak, but understanding all of that stuff, what's 252 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: going on in the brain within eurochemicals and all this 253 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and how trauma plays, trying to understand 254 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: it as well from the perspective of the addict is 255 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: really important when it comes to exploring how to get 256 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: better from this place, how to go about that. I 257 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: need to take a break, but I'll expand on that 258 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: in just a moment. Thanks for staying with us. Talking 259 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: about breaking from addiction It isn't just about quitting cold turkey, 260 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: which can be quite dangerous if you have particularly been 261 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: drinking or using a lot. I've done that, I've stopped 262 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: drinking cold turkey, and yet I then didn't do all 263 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: the work that required to rewire how my brain worked, 264 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: rewiring how to learn to live my life like that, 265 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: and it didn't go well at all. To do it properly, 266 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: you actually have to rewire the brain's reward system. You've 267 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: got to look at that underlying trauma and you've got 268 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: to figure out healthier mechanisms, healthier ways essentially to cope 269 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: with those uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. Educating yourself, educating the 270 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: people around you about addiction can take a lot of 271 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: the fear away, a lot of the shame away. Just understand, 272 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: it's just a thing that's happening to this person I 273 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: care about. It's not this person, it's a thing that's 274 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: happening to them. And there's plenty of places to get help. 275 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: You could just do a quick search wherever you are 276 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: and there'll be lots of support groups that are there 277 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: for you, which is also important, but also the person 278 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: who is struggling the support group I've been a part 279 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: of and the one that's helped me get in the 280 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: stay sober is free, has always been free. So yeah, 281 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: it's everywhere. But how do you talk to the person 282 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: who's struggling if you're not doing this kind of screening 283 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: intervention like you see on the Telly I did hate 284 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: that show. It was never good. You might need a 285 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: lot of work to get to this particular emotional place, 286 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: but trying to have an non judgmental conversation, a conversation 287 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: free of resentment, can really do a lot. It does 288 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: mean doing the work to put your resentment and pain 289 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: aside and making space for the person who's dealing with 290 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: the addiction to feel understood, not attacked, not belittled. It's 291 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: important to take a break if you need to and 292 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: just try to talk from a place of I guess empathy. 293 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: If you're coming at it from resentment and shame, it's 294 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: not going to work all right. They're just going to 295 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: galvanize them. Understanding what's happening for the addict also means 296 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: understanding your part in it, and it's important to recognize 297 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: that just because you are reframing this damaging behavior as oh, 298 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: they're doing that so they don't feel bad. You're not 299 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: condoning it, you're just going Okay, I understand why they're 300 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: doing it, and that's why boundaries are really important here, 301 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: as long as they come from a place of love 302 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: and concern. Nothing that is a punishment. Okay, Boundaries really 303 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: good instead of ultimatums. They can and work a lot better. 304 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: Like it can sound like I love you, I'm here 305 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: to support you. I'm not going to enable you by 306 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: giving you any money. I'm sorry. They'll crack the shits, 307 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: but you've got to do that. And it's absolutely vital 308 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: that you work to get them to get help, get 309 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: them to a meeting, take them to a meeting, get 310 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: them to a doctor, particularly if they've been using lots 311 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: of different things, because stopping straight away can be dangerous 312 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: when they're using lots of different stuff and there's pathways 313 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: out of it. In my experience, accepts commitment therapy has 314 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: been quite good. I've found what is it called yeah 315 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: EMDR that I movement desensitization reprocessing. I think yes EMD 316 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: can be particularly effective when it comes to dealing with 317 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: childhood trauma and things like that, and in my case 318 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: that we're both helped out by being on meds, which 319 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: loosened up the bolts and lostened that the gearbox had 320 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: been allowed me to get that thinking in my brain. 321 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: But this is all very easy for me to say 322 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: sitting here in this podcast, But when someone you love 323 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: is destroying their lives, your life, their career, everyone's life 324 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: around them, it's hard to shift out of blame and punishment, 325 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: resentment towards understanding and support. It's real hard. But if 326 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: you are prepared to get yourself help, which is also 327 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: very important, get some counseling. There are twelve step groups 328 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: of people who are living with someone who's an addict, 329 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: you can learn all the things I'm talking about. You 330 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: can learn how to communicate openly, set boundaries, and encourage 331 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: help seeking for the person that you care about. It's 332 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: real hard, but it can be done, and it doesn't 333 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: always have to be this way. There's plenty of help 334 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: out there. It's an email or a cliqu or a 335 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: phone call away. I'll put some links in the show notes. 336 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: I think it's important to say that this is by 337 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: no means an exhaustive to do or how to on 338 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: how to handle this kind of stuff. I'm sure I've 339 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: missed a lot, and I would not want to come 340 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: across as someone who's an expert in this. I am not. 341 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm just simply speaking from the things that I've learned 342 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: and what I've come to learn, and all the things 343 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: I've described today have been very very helpful with me 344 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: understanding what is going on with me, and you know, 345 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: people that are around me and people who've been in 346 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: my life. It's been very very useful for me. But 347 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: I just wanted to put something out there which could 348 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: serve as I don't know, a bit of a primer, 349 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: an audio leaflet if you will. It's the audio leaflet 350 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: you leave on your teenager's ben Like, I'm just found 351 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: something at the doctor today. You maybe want to read it. 352 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: It's about Herbie or whatever, you know, just something that 353 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: you might be able to use yourself or send us 354 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: someone because it's the stuff that Diane and I were 355 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: talking about. Was really really good. Yeah. Anyway, thanks heaves 356 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: for listening. I really appreciate it. I'll see on Monday. 357 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maher on 358 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: Audio post production to Hi to made the music. My 359 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: producer is Breue Steel. My executive function assistant is Monica 360 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: Chapman and for every episode ever to get on the 361 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: mailing list. To get in touch through the contact form 362 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: easy as pie. Head to oshiginsburg dot com. That is 363 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: oshaginsburg dot com. Thanks for listening.