1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:06,439 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,030 --> 00:00:09,390 Sean Aylmer: It's hard to believe 22 years have passed since the 3 00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:12,690 Sean Aylmer: referendum on whether Australia should become a Republic, but the 4 00:00:12,690 --> 00:00:15,080 Sean Aylmer: rejection of the model put forward at the time didn't 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,880 Sean Aylmer: put the matter to bed forever. Today I wanted to 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,820 Sean Aylmer: have a closer look at the issue, what went wrong 7 00:00:19,820 --> 00:00:22,840 Sean Aylmer: last time, when we might see another referendum, and what 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,770 Sean Aylmer: a change would mean for Australia and our place in 9 00:00:24,770 --> 00:00:27,610 Sean Aylmer: the world. Peter FitzSimons is an author, journalist and the 10 00:00:27,610 --> 00:00:30,670 Sean Aylmer: chair of the Australian Republic Movement. Peter, welcome back. 11 00:00:31,230 --> 00:00:33,100 Peter FitzSimons: Thank you, Sean. We should declare that you were my 12 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:34,540 Peter FitzSimons: former Editor in Chief and you were kind to me in your time at the top of The Herald. 13 00:00:37,990 --> 00:00:40,409 Sean Aylmer: That's very nice of you. Now, when I've been watching 14 00:00:40,409 --> 00:00:43,790 Sean Aylmer: the last couple of weeks, the decision around nuclear submarines, 15 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:47,390 Sean Aylmer: our relations with US, UK, the free trades we're talking 16 00:00:47,490 --> 00:00:50,050 Sean Aylmer: about, and then you've got all these reconciliation action plans 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,930 Sean Aylmer: from businesses. It all, to me, kind of is about 18 00:00:53,930 --> 00:00:57,670 Sean Aylmer: the identity of Australia, which to me is all about 19 00:00:57,670 --> 00:01:00,100 Sean Aylmer: the Republican movement. Where is it up to? 20 00:01:00,330 --> 00:01:03,350 Peter FitzSimons: Where we're up to is when I did a speech 21 00:01:03,350 --> 00:01:10,819 Peter FitzSimons: in 2017, when Malcolm Turnbull addressed us, the Republic Movement, when 22 00:01:10,819 --> 00:01:13,789 Peter FitzSimons: he was Prime Minister, and it was at Sydney University. 23 00:01:13,790 --> 00:01:17,110 Peter FitzSimons: And one of the things I said was to honour what 24 00:01:17,270 --> 00:01:19,800 Peter FitzSimons: I called the winter soldiers. And that was they're the 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,970 Peter FitzSimons: people that kept the Republic Movement going in the two 26 00:01:22,970 --> 00:01:28,410 Peter FitzSimons: decades after the '99 referendum because I was involved tangentially 27 00:01:28,410 --> 00:01:32,330 Peter FitzSimons: in that '99 referendum, trying to get sports stars to where, 28 00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:34,000 Peter FitzSimons: in fact, I did, I got them to sign a 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,470 Peter FitzSimons: declaration of independence of the desire to play for a 30 00:01:38,470 --> 00:01:41,800 Peter FitzSimons: free Australia, a liberated Australia, if you like, certainly an 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,900 Peter FitzSimons: independent Australia. And then it was gutting the next 14 32 00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:52,050 Peter FitzSimons: or 15 years, getting people involved, making people believe that 33 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:54,620 Peter FitzSimons: it could be done again. And I took over in 34 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:59,640 Peter FitzSimons: 2015 and I inherited an organisation. The great thing was, 35 00:01:59,710 --> 00:02:02,260 Peter FitzSimons: it was intact. There were chapters, there was a tiny 36 00:02:02,260 --> 00:02:05,890 Peter FitzSimons: amount of money and what I devoted my time to 37 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:08,850 Peter FitzSimons: first up, I probably even approached you, Sean, I can't remember. 38 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:12,470 Peter FitzSimons: But basically everybody I knew, certainly everybody I'd ever done 39 00:02:12,470 --> 00:02:15,710 Peter FitzSimons: a speech for, written books about or on or whatever, 40 00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:18,190 Peter FitzSimons: I just approached them and said, I need your membership. I need your membership. 41 00:02:18,190 --> 00:02:20,220 Peter FitzSimons: You've got to join up. And we went from about 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,350 Peter FitzSimons: 1000 members. I think when we audited it, we started 43 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:26,650 Peter FitzSimons: to get professional. I got enough money, I raised in 44 00:02:26,650 --> 00:02:29,550 Peter FitzSimons: the first instance about a million dollars. And with that, 45 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,270 Peter FitzSimons: we were able to employ professionals, full- time professionals, get 46 00:02:34,270 --> 00:02:37,870 Peter FitzSimons: our membership going, start to form the idea of a campaign. 47 00:02:38,220 --> 00:02:40,510 Peter FitzSimons: I've been doing it now for six years and we're 48 00:02:40,510 --> 00:02:44,820 Peter FitzSimons: on another fundraising drive to keep this going. And ideally, 49 00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:49,579 Peter FitzSimons: sometime in the next three to four years, we will 50 00:02:49,580 --> 00:02:53,900 Peter FitzSimons: have a referendum put and probably early in the new year, 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,370 Peter FitzSimons: we will put to the people, this is the model, 52 00:02:59,370 --> 00:03:03,530 Peter FitzSimons: our considered model, of what we think is the best 53 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:07,359 Peter FitzSimons: chance to get over the line with the referendum and give Australia a 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Peter FitzSimons: Republic government. 55 00:03:08,660 --> 00:03:11,210 Sean Aylmer: Do you think you have the population behind you, generally? 56 00:03:11,669 --> 00:03:14,590 Peter FitzSimons: Not yet. No. I mean, it's hard yakka. It is 57 00:03:14,590 --> 00:03:17,900 Peter FitzSimons: really hard yakka, particularly in the time of the pandemic, 58 00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:21,300 Peter FitzSimons: to get people to concentrate on it and not unreasonably so. 59 00:03:21,740 --> 00:03:24,919 Peter FitzSimons: I mean, right now there's one topic of conversation. And 60 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,160 Peter FitzSimons: when I first took over six years ago, I have 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,870 Peter FitzSimons: 13 nieces and nephews and two of them are particularly 62 00:03:32,870 --> 00:03:37,140 Peter FitzSimons: active in political matters. And I approached two of my 63 00:03:37,140 --> 00:03:40,710 Peter FitzSimons: nieces and said, look, Uncle Pete here, I'm taking over chair of 64 00:03:40,710 --> 00:03:43,670 Peter FitzSimons: The Republic Movement. I need your help. And both of 65 00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:46,430 Peter FitzSimons: these very fine, very active young women said, love you 66 00:03:46,550 --> 00:03:49,780 Peter FitzSimons: uncle Pete. But you're not in the top five of things 67 00:03:49,780 --> 00:03:52,630 Peter FitzSimons: that we are concerned about. And that was very interesting 68 00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:57,500 Peter FitzSimons: to me. But generally we have about half the people 69 00:03:57,500 --> 00:04:01,560 Peter FitzSimons: are for us, want a Republic, a quarter of the 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,890 Peter FitzSimons: people want to remain with the monarchy, and a quarter 71 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:07,760 Peter FitzSimons: don't care, as long as they can keep watching the 72 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:13,370 Peter FitzSimons: Kardashian show. And those figures are broad. In recent times, those numbers 73 00:04:13,380 --> 00:04:15,680 Peter FitzSimons: have gone up a bit in our favour. I mean, 74 00:04:16,210 --> 00:04:19,780 Peter FitzSimons: there was an outlier one late last year from memory 75 00:04:20,070 --> 00:04:22,620 Peter FitzSimons: that was down but then it's come back again. Again, 76 00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:25,839 Peter FitzSimons: difficult to get a real reading in the time of the pandemic. 77 00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:30,550 Peter FitzSimons: But yes, we need to engage the people. The events 78 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,350 Peter FitzSimons: in Great Britain at the moment, well particularly with the 79 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:37,010 Peter FitzSimons: Royal family, Prince Andrew is something that comes up in 80 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:39,450 Peter FitzSimons: our discussions with people. I mean, right now they're trying 81 00:04:39,450 --> 00:04:41,410 Peter FitzSimons: to serve a writ on him from the young woman 82 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:43,789 Peter FitzSimons: in New York, who's taking legal action on him, and 83 00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:48,050 Peter FitzSimons: he's hiding at Balmoral Castle. And, this is the man 84 00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:50,760 Peter FitzSimons: who would be, who is, I think, eighth in line to 85 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,670 Peter FitzSimons: succession to be king of Australia. So, the whole shtick 86 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,510 Peter FitzSimons: of the monarchists is that the blood of The Royal 87 00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:00,770 Peter FitzSimons: Family is blue, it's better than the blood of the 88 00:05:00,770 --> 00:05:04,570 Peter FitzSimons: rest of us. So, I always say in speeches, if 89 00:05:04,570 --> 00:05:08,950 Peter FitzSimons: Australians were to look at the photo of themselves together two 90 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:12,700 Peter FitzSimons: Christmases ago, before the pandemic came and the 25 of 91 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,589 Peter FitzSimons: you around the barbecue, and there was auntie Mary and 92 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:19,469 Peter FitzSimons: uncle Ted and cousin John, and look at that photo 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,980 Peter FitzSimons: and then look at the photo of the Queen of 94 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:24,870 Peter FitzSimons: England with her family on the balcony of Buckingham Palace, 95 00:05:24,890 --> 00:05:28,789 Peter FitzSimons: I think last June. Under our colonial constitution, and I 96 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:34,520 Peter FitzSimons: use those words advisedly. Under our colonial constitution, every one 97 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,099 Peter FitzSimons: of those people on the balcony with the Queen of England, 98 00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:41,469 Peter FitzSimons: including Prince Andrew, and including the one that's now, I 99 00:05:41,470 --> 00:05:46,560 Peter FitzSimons: think now two years old is automatically more qualified to 100 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,500 Peter FitzSimons: be the Australian Head of State than anybody in your family. 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,700 Peter FitzSimons: And your niece Esmeralda, the highly accomplished Esmeralda, she could 102 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:00,430 Peter FitzSimons: at the age of 25, win the Oscar for Best Actress. 103 00:06:00,529 --> 00:06:04,280 Peter FitzSimons: She could, by the age of 30 cure cancer, by 35, 104 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:07,240 Peter FitzSimons: give us peace in the Middle East, by 40 rid 105 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,730 Peter FitzSimons: us of Pauline Hanson. She could be the most accomplished Australian, 106 00:06:12,410 --> 00:06:16,930 Peter FitzSimons: revered Australian that ever lived, but under our colonial constitution, 107 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:23,330 Peter FitzSimons: it says Esmeralda need not apply. Why? Because she's an Australian, 108 00:06:23,740 --> 00:06:28,320 Peter FitzSimons: as an Australian, she is automatically disqualified from being the 109 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,990 Peter FitzSimons: Australian Head of State because that job is reserved for 110 00:06:30,990 --> 00:06:33,690 Peter FitzSimons: a family of English aristocrats. And when I put it 111 00:06:33,690 --> 00:06:36,620 Peter FitzSimons: like that to audiences, I can see them move. I 112 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:37,260 Peter FitzSimons: can see them stir. 113 00:06:37,529 --> 00:06:37,549 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 114 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,760 Peter FitzSimons: I can see them looking at it going, geez, that 115 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,260 Peter FitzSimons: right. And the challenge we've got is to put that 116 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:47,750 Peter FitzSimons: before the people to say, this is a national embarrassment. 117 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:54,570 Peter FitzSimons: We are 121 years, 120 years since Federation. We're 250 118 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,430 Peter FitzSimons: odd years since Captain Cook got here. Our people, the 119 00:06:58,430 --> 00:07:04,750 Peter FitzSimons: first nations people have been here for 65,000 years. And 120 00:07:04,750 --> 00:07:07,900 Peter FitzSimons: yet here we are in the 21st century and we say 121 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:11,450 Peter FitzSimons: to the world, we cannot run our own show. We 122 00:07:11,450 --> 00:07:14,740 Peter FitzSimons: just can't do it. And then people say, they say, I 123 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:16,770 Peter FitzSimons: am sorry to rant, but it's got me going again. 124 00:07:17,830 --> 00:07:21,200 Peter FitzSimons: Then people say, I don't want to leave the Commonwealth and I 125 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,720 Peter FitzSimons: still want our athletes to be in The Commonwealth Games. The 126 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,360 Peter FitzSimons: answer to that is that's fine. We don't want to 127 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,390 Peter FitzSimons: leave the Commonwealth either. 128 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:29,160 Sean Aylmer: Canada does it. 129 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,440 Peter FitzSimons: Yeah, but there's still, I think 55 nations in the Commonwealth, 38 130 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:38,630 Peter FitzSimons: of them, and I think soon 39 with Barbados, are Republics. So, 131 00:07:38,630 --> 00:07:41,070 Peter FitzSimons: it's like Malta, they had the CHOGM conference there a 132 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:43,910 Peter FitzSimons: few years ago, Malta, again, and I think it's been 133 00:07:43,910 --> 00:07:47,170 Peter FitzSimons: a Republic for 37 years and a very successful one. 134 00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:50,400 Peter FitzSimons: This can be done, but one of the historians I 135 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,960 Peter FitzSimons: spoke to, Benjamin T. Jones, he's been sort of studying 136 00:07:55,190 --> 00:08:00,270 Peter FitzSimons: The Republic Movement, and he's a very strong Republican himself, in Australia. 137 00:08:00,340 --> 00:08:01,980 Peter FitzSimons: And one of the lines, I think it was him 138 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:05,120 Peter FitzSimons: that told me the line, that the idea of an Australian Republic 139 00:08:05,150 --> 00:08:09,310 Peter FitzSimons: is a solution in search of a problem. And that 140 00:08:09,630 --> 00:08:13,370 Peter FitzSimons: there is this natural apathy because we're living in the 141 00:08:13,690 --> 00:08:18,120 Peter FitzSimons: blessed land of Australia and people don't concentrate so much 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,130 Peter FitzSimons: on the indignity of it. But his point to me, 143 00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:22,270 Peter FitzSimons: this is a bit long- winded, but his point to 144 00:08:22,270 --> 00:08:26,210 Peter FitzSimons: me was why do we become a Republic? Essentially, it's 145 00:08:26,210 --> 00:08:30,010 Peter FitzSimons: a matter of dignity. It's a matter of national pride 146 00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:32,700 Peter FitzSimons: to be seen to run our own show. I mean, 147 00:08:32,860 --> 00:08:35,880 Peter FitzSimons: you must know yourself, when you explain to the French, 148 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,290 Peter FitzSimons: when you explain to English people, a lot of English 149 00:08:38,290 --> 00:08:41,470 Peter FitzSimons: people, they probably understand it better, you explain to Americans that 150 00:08:41,470 --> 00:08:47,140 Peter FitzSimons: we're still not a Republic. They go, the what? And what my French friends, 151 00:08:47,550 --> 00:08:50,350 Peter FitzSimons: I lived in France for four years playing rugby. And 152 00:08:50,350 --> 00:08:52,900 Peter FitzSimons: when I explained to them that the Queen of England 153 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,900 Peter FitzSimons: is actually also the Queen of Australia, I mean, they 154 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:02,060 Peter FitzSimons: are completely and utterly gobsmacked and they feel a bit sorry for me, us. 155 00:09:02,060 --> 00:09:05,410 Sean Aylmer: Yep. Yep. I feel sorry for us too. Stay with 156 00:09:05,410 --> 00:09:06,589 Sean Aylmer: me, Peter, we'll be back in a minute. 157 00:09:11,860 --> 00:09:14,650 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Peter FitzSimons, author, journalist, and 158 00:09:14,650 --> 00:09:18,820 Sean Aylmer: chair of The Australian Republic Movement. I just want to, I mean, when the last referendum, 159 00:09:18,820 --> 00:09:22,589 Sean Aylmer: and John Howard was against it, the model wasn't liked. 160 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,250 Sean Aylmer: If we have a reference to the next three or four years, 161 00:09:25,250 --> 00:09:27,270 Sean Aylmer: do we need a different government, do you think? Do you think the 162 00:09:27,270 --> 00:09:29,900 Sean Aylmer: current government and how important is the model? 163 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:34,600 Peter FitzSimons: Well going into, again, so it was just before the 164 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,570 Peter FitzSimons: last federal election, when Bill Shorten was top of the 165 00:09:37,570 --> 00:09:40,480 Peter FitzSimons: polls and it was on the 29th of July, so it 166 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,970 Peter FitzSimons: must have been 2019 I'm thinking, Bill Shorten made a 167 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:48,809 Peter FitzSimons: speech to us, at the Royal Exhibition Hall in Melbourne, 1000 168 00:09:48,809 --> 00:09:51,550 Peter FitzSimons: people there. And he committed, he said, if elected at 169 00:09:51,550 --> 00:09:55,050 Peter FitzSimons: the next election, I will put a referendum to the 170 00:09:55,390 --> 00:09:59,079 Peter FitzSimons: Australian people. So, at that point we had the Prime 171 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,870 Peter FitzSimons: Minister who would be, the Prime Minister most likely, at 172 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:04,740 Peter FitzSimons: that point, he was the most likely person to take 173 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:08,340 Peter FitzSimons: over from Scott Morrison, committing an incoming ALP government to 174 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:11,380 Peter FitzSimons: giving us a referendum. And there was huge excitement there. 175 00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:13,959 Peter FitzSimons: And now we all got the polls wrong and Scott 176 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,470 Peter FitzSimons: Morrison became the Prime Minister. Democracy in action, so be it. 177 00:10:17,770 --> 00:10:21,740 Peter FitzSimons: I've asked Mr. Morrison about where he stands on the Republic. 178 00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:25,220 Peter FitzSimons: And he said, his exact words to me were "Peter, 179 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:29,580 Peter FitzSimons: I am a constitutionalist." And in essence, the position of 180 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:32,880 Peter FitzSimons: the constitutionalist says that when Moses came down from the Mount, 181 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,870 Peter FitzSimons: as well as the 10 commandments, he had the Australian 182 00:10:34,870 --> 00:10:38,030 Peter FitzSimons: constitution and you can't change it. I mean that's very 183 00:10:38,030 --> 00:10:41,860 Peter FitzSimons: broadly it, but there are some and that constitution is 184 00:10:41,860 --> 00:10:46,170 Peter FitzSimons: completely antiquated. It is time we had recognition of our 185 00:10:46,170 --> 00:10:49,579 Peter FitzSimons: first nations people, that we set ourselves up as a Republic, 186 00:10:49,580 --> 00:10:53,270 Peter FitzSimons: that we move forward. Where is Anthony Albanese on it? Well, 187 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:56,940 Peter FitzSimons: the ALP, in their own charter they are in favour of the Republic. 188 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:59,160 Peter FitzSimons: As to the question of timing with things like Uluru, 189 00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:03,520 Peter FitzSimons: that is to be worked out. Our job meantime is 190 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,309 Peter FitzSimons: to keep the movement going, is to fly the flag, to 191 00:11:06,309 --> 00:11:08,470 Peter FitzSimons: say we're here. And as I say, within the next 192 00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:10,800 Peter FitzSimons: few months, we will come out with the model. Now, 193 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,010 Peter FitzSimons: the problem with coming up with a model, and this 194 00:11:13,010 --> 00:11:17,780 Peter FitzSimons: has been a real problem. That for me, personally, when 195 00:11:17,780 --> 00:11:21,220 Peter FitzSimons: I took over, it was obvious to me that a 196 00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:24,760 Peter FitzSimons: minimalist solution was the way. And see, again, a lot 197 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,809 Peter FitzSimons: of Australians don't really focus on the way the system 198 00:11:28,809 --> 00:11:30,970 Peter FitzSimons: works at the moment, but the way it works is 199 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:33,510 Peter FitzSimons: that you can put it in a Tweet. There's an 200 00:11:33,510 --> 00:11:38,630 Peter FitzSimons: election every five years, the elected Prime Minister selects an 201 00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:42,250 Peter FitzSimons: eminent Australian to be the Governor General, he or she then 202 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:44,679 Peter FitzSimons: writes away to the Queen of England saying, this is 203 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,390 Peter FitzSimons: my Governor General Designate, like you to approve. The Queen of England, writes back and says, okay. 204 00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:54,170 Peter FitzSimons: So the minimalist solution that I wanted, in the past, 205 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:58,650 Peter FitzSimons: was everything stays the same. We remain the Commonwealth of Australia. 206 00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:01,610 Peter FitzSimons: We still call the Governor General, the Governor General, not 207 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:04,309 Peter FitzSimons: the President in the sense that just to show this 208 00:12:04,309 --> 00:12:07,600 Peter FitzSimons: is not a big change. There's one change however, that 209 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,640 Peter FitzSimons: the elected Prime Minister selects an eminent Australian. And then 210 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,339 Peter FitzSimons: instead of writing to a lady, living in England, writes 211 00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:19,150 Peter FitzSimons: down to the hall of the parliament of the people to say, 212 00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:21,410 Peter FitzSimons: this is who I would like. I'd like a two- 213 00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:26,020 Peter FitzSimons: thirds majority of a joint session of parliament to approve my 214 00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:29,690 Peter FitzSimons: choice as Governor General, which would mean the authority of 215 00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:35,140 Peter FitzSimons: the Governor General would rest on Australian democracy. And for me, 216 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:38,689 Peter FitzSimons: that was the best solution. The problem with that is 217 00:12:38,690 --> 00:12:41,330 Peter FitzSimons: that a huge chunk of the Australian population, and we 218 00:12:41,330 --> 00:12:43,689 Peter FitzSimons: had a think tank down in Kangaroo Valley a couple 219 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,220 Peter FitzSimons: of years ago, and David Maher, the great David Maher, 220 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:49,940 Peter FitzSimons: made a very impassioned speech to us, the theme of 221 00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:53,880 Peter FitzSimons: which was get this into your head. You can go left, 222 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,410 Peter FitzSimons: you can go right, you can go up, you can 223 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:57,450 Peter FitzSimons: go down, you can put bells and whistles on it, 224 00:12:57,740 --> 00:13:00,099 Peter FitzSimons: but at the end of the day, the only way you're going to get 225 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:03,970 Peter FitzSimons: something over the line is if the Australian people have an 226 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:07,240 Peter FitzSimons: input into that, and the more we researched it, the 227 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,590 Peter FitzSimons: more we talked to people, we have broadly agreed with that, 228 00:13:10,630 --> 00:13:15,360 Peter FitzSimons: there has to be an Australian input into who should 229 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,920 Peter FitzSimons: be the Governor General. And people also say, I don't 230 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,730 Peter FitzSimons: want a politician. I don't want a politician. Or I 231 00:13:21,010 --> 00:13:25,100 Peter FitzSimons: don't want a politicians Republic, not quite understanding respectfully that 232 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:28,270 Peter FitzSimons: the way it works now is it's a politician that 233 00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:32,340 Peter FitzSimons: selects the Governor General. The other problem that you've got is from 234 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:36,819 Peter FitzSimons: the moment, let's say you Sean, the unlikely event that you, Sean, 235 00:13:36,850 --> 00:13:39,420 Peter FitzSimons: decided that you wanted to be the President or the 236 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:42,240 Peter FitzSimons: Governor General from the moment you put your hand up 237 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,640 Peter FitzSimons: and said, I'm available, I'm nominated. It quasi makes you 238 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:51,020 Peter FitzSimons: a politician because you're putting yourself up for an election. 239 00:13:51,059 --> 00:13:54,650 Peter FitzSimons: And one of the themes that we've been working through again, 240 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,819 Peter FitzSimons: is I will make, I'll leave this for the announcement, 241 00:13:58,820 --> 00:14:02,250 Peter FitzSimons: but for me, the pool has to be not rigid, 242 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:06,709 Peter FitzSimons: but really what we're looking for is eminent Australians. You 243 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:09,309 Peter FitzSimons: want people, I mean, if you think for me in 244 00:14:09,309 --> 00:14:12,650 Peter FitzSimons: my lifetime of the ones that I focused on, Sir 245 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:19,060 Peter FitzSimons: William Deane was just an outstanding Governor General. He embodied, somehow, 246 00:14:19,060 --> 00:14:22,160 Peter FitzSimons: the spirit of the Australian people. I always admired on 247 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,380 Peter FitzSimons: the Swiss, can you remember the Swiss canyon tragedy? 248 00:14:24,580 --> 00:14:24,581 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. 249 00:14:24,581 --> 00:14:29,960 Peter FitzSimons: Must have been late eighties or early nineties. What I remember about that, is that 250 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,930 Peter FitzSimons: Sir William was our Governor General, the news came that we'd 251 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:38,840 Peter FitzSimons: lost 18 Australians in a tragedy in Switzerland overnight. He 252 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,420 Peter FitzSimons: was on a plane, RAAF jet within three hours, flying 253 00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:48,370 Peter FitzSimons: to Switzerland. He presided, oversaw the bodies being loaded on 254 00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:52,370 Peter FitzSimons: the jet. He accompanied the bodies at a time of 255 00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:57,650 Peter FitzSimons: great Australian national morning. It was done with such dignity. 256 00:14:58,090 --> 00:15:02,890 Peter FitzSimons: He embodied the national grief and the national dignity, and 257 00:15:02,890 --> 00:15:08,280 Peter FitzSimons: it was so completely and utterly unpolitical. He wasn't representing 258 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,480 Peter FitzSimons: Liberal voters or ALP voters or Green voters or whoever. He was 259 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,620 Peter FitzSimons: embodying Australia. And so for me, the point about Sir 260 00:15:16,630 --> 00:15:20,230 Peter FitzSimons: William is that before he became Governor General, I don't 261 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,150 Peter FitzSimons: think many people knew really who he was. He was well- known, 262 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,710 Peter FitzSimons: but he was precisely the kind of eminent Australian you'd want as our representative. 263 00:15:31,370 --> 00:15:33,710 Sean Aylmer: Well, Peter, look, I'm going to leave it there because we're running out 264 00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:36,360 Sean Aylmer: of time, but certainly I'm a huge supporter of you. 265 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,900 Sean Aylmer: And certainly The Republic Movement. I really do wish you well. 266 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,840 Sean Aylmer: You've got literally three seconds. Are there life in them 267 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:43,620 Sean Aylmer: Wallabies now? 268 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Peter FitzSimons: Brilliant piece in The Herald last week, Sean, and as a matter of fact, I wrote 269 00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:52,510 Peter FitzSimons: it. There is life, the Wallabies go on. Thanks very much. 270 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,971 Sean Aylmer: Peter, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 271 00:15:54,971 --> 00:15:55,560 Peter FitzSimons: Thank you. Bye- bye. 272 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:57,910 Sean Aylmer: That was Peter FitzSimons, author, journalist, and chair of The 273 00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:01,720 Sean Aylmer: Australian Republic Movement. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 274 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,970 Sean Aylmer: Join me every morning for the full Fear and Greed 275 00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:06,280 Sean Aylmer: podcast with all the business news you need to know. 276 00:16:06,620 --> 00:16:08,080 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.