WEBVTT - From The Front: Pain and hope for Bronwyn’s family 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.560 You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.799 every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:23.000 the news from the Australian. From the Australian, Here's what's 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.119 on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Thursday, September five. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.440 Jim Chalmer says the government is keeping Australia out of 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.960 recession after the economy recorded its weakest growth since nineteen 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.960 ninety one. The Treasurer says the Reserve Bank is wrong 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.360 to say the economy is running hot. It's all part 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.160 of a barney between the Bank and the government about 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:52.200 who's to blame for the rising cost of living. Talk 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.200 of a family curse and an audacious scam. Those are 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.440 the new twists in our blockbuster podcast investigation Bronwyn, led 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.760 by Hedley Thomas. Journalism can help solve crime, but it 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.480 can also expose the pain and grief buried within families. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.800 Today we meet a remarkable young woman walking both sides 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:26.440 of this story. How does the stack of gold bullion 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.399 become a box of cement? That's not a joke or 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.679 a riddle, it's the reality. For Crystal Winfield Neil, a 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.880 single mum living in Sydney, Crystal is the eldest daughter 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.640 of Bronwyn Winfield, who disappeared from Lennox Head on the 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.120 New South Wales North Coast just over three decades ago. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.840 The bungled initial police investigation and Bromwyn's suspected murder of 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:55.400 the subject of The Australian's investigative podcast series Bronwyn, created 0:01:55.440 --> 0:02:00.919 by our national Chief correspondent Hedley Thomas. Growing up without 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.920 her mum has been hard on Crystal. Recently, she turned 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:09.720 to a spiritual teacher, a self described soul doctor for guidance. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:16.080 Crystal has been searching for a way to bring permanent 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:21.680 positivity into her thinking and into her daily life. 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:27.360 That's Crystal's aunt and Bromwin's half sister, Kim Marshall. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:32.959 She was approached by a strange person unknown to her 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.800 in the street a number of months ago, and she 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.680 has this understanding that this person who sat down with 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:46.400 her understored and knew what she was going through. 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.519 Kim's talking in one of two special new episodes of Bromwyn, 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.919 which are available now exclusively for the Australian subscribers at 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.080 bromwynpodcast dot com. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.720 And she thought meeting these people which were in numbers 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.960 and different types of people that they would help her 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.040 on a spiritual path to actually no longer having this 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:13.160 weighted burden. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.720 At first, Crystal's financial contribution to the Soul Doctor's cause 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.000 was modest, just a couple of hundred dollars. They told 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.200 her they provided charitable assistance to people in India. But 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.000 fast forward a couple of months and Crystal has been 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.160 scammed out of more than three hundred thousand dollars, her 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.760 entire life savings. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.720 She believes that by her giving them the seventy thousand dollars, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.880 they were going to take it away and bless it 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.080 and then they would return it to her, But apparently 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.400 that is no longer the case. But then there's the 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.720 other act of kindness that she did is where she 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:01.560 was asked to purchase a large number of gold and 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.120 that gold bullion is no longer gold bullion. It is 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.720 now actually a container full of cement. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.120 At some point, the gold bullion Crystal purchase to be 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.400 blessed by the Soul Doctors was switched with an identical 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:21.720 container full of cement. Crystal recently opened up about being 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:26.000 scammed in the podcast's official discussion group. A voice actor 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:27.560 is reading her posts. 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.200 Honestly, our family has been through a lot. Both Mum 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.160 and I were very trusting people and as a result, 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.920 I was recently scammed my entire life savings by strangers. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.080 It's the first time we've heard directly from Crystal in 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.440 this podcast series. She declined to be interviewed when Headley 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.159 first started investigating, but she's recently found her voice in 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.080 our lively Facebook group, where nearly twenty thousand listeners are 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.599 chatting and crowdsolving as the investigation unfolds. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.440 Prised me as she trusted the wrong person, someone she 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.440 has just met, and they were responsible for her disappearance. 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.720 I also have other theories, but this seems likely to 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.360 me as I know she never would have left us 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:14.760 for long. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.680 In episode eleven, which is live now exclusively for Ours subscribers, 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.480 Headley Thomas and Cristel's cousin Mattie Walsh, who's been working 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.920 with heavily on the podcast, discuss these developments. In episode twelve, 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.720 also live now for subscribers, Headly answers some of our 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:42.400 listeners burning questions. Crystal Winfield Neil trusted the Soul Doctors 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.960 because of an old bit of family law. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.480 I heard about this curse when I actually went to 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:53.400 Sydney last year, and I may not be fully accurate 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.520 on it, but apparently there is what is known as 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:57.600 a read curse. 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.040 Members of Crystal's extended family, like her Auntie Kim and 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.080 uncle Andy Bromwin, Winfield's brother, say the curse is just 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.440 a bit of a joke, but the told Bromwin's unsolved 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.960 disappearance has taken on her extended family is no laughing matter. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:21.960 Well, it's been like opening up old wounds. Before the podcast, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.240 I didn't really understand the depths of a lot of 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:30.040 these family issues and what Bromwin's disappearance did. 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.279 Madison Walsh is Bromwin's cousin on the Reed side. She 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.920 was born a decade after Bromwyn disappeared and has been 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.240 working with Headley on the podcast investigation. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.159 And it's also a really tough subject because someone so 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:51.120 close to them has gone missing. Watching it unfold, you 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.760 have to keep in mind that this is the furthest 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.480 we've ever gone with Bronwin's case. This is the furthest 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.919 of the investigation has ever gone. So you, in a 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.600 way have to sacrifice a little bit of your personal 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:09.520 information and let it out there so that people can 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.240 feel something towards the case, so they feel more connected 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.560 to it, so they know that we're not always a 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.320 joint family unit, and we all have good days and 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.320 bad days, and not everyone agrees with each other's opinions, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:28.000 and there's moments where family members aren't communicating because it's 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.280 just too hard, and it causes more arguments and it 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.040 does good discussions. It's tough. It is tough to be 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.480 in the middle of that, and things like the curse 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.640 come up, and most family members think, oh, it's just 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.200 tongue in cheek, it's just a funny thing that we 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.280 like to bring up every now and then as a joke. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.200 But then other family members take it a bit more 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.320 seriously and maybe do think, hang on, is there a curse? 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.320 But at the end of the day, it's all based 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.600 on opinion. It's all based on how you feel, and 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.960 everyone has a right to have their own opinions and 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.520 feel how they want, and at the end of the day, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.000 not everyone's going to agree with you. And that's basically 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:06.680 been the biggest lesson to learn. 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.160 Mattie's connection to bromwin Winfield inspired her to pursue a 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.280 career in forensic science when she graduated in May. She 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.600 never expected her first gig out of UNI to be 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:20.840 a true crime podcast investigation. 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.880 It was about a year ago and my aunt was 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.560 being interviewed by Hedley at her home not far from mine, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.320 and she said that Hedley was coming over to interview 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.480 her and asked if I wanted to come and join, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.600 because she knew of my forensics background and knew of 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.280 my interest, and I went. I just sat there, and 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.440 at certain points he asked for my import and he 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.920 discovered that I at that point was still studying forensic science, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.120 and he asked me if I wanted to help him 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.160 out and work with him on the podcast. And I 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.640 was quite shocked that he was asking me because I 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.000 was twenty And it's been going well ever since. 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.520 Maddie had heard of Headley. Of course, he's the creator 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.559 of the global Juggernaut podcast The Teacher's Pet, which resulted 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.720 in the arrest of Christopher Michael Dawson over the nineteen 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.960 eighty two disappearance of his wife Lynn Simms. Dawson has 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.439 now been convicted of murder and child sex offending, and 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:25.120 he's in prison. Thanks to Headley's work One of the 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.640 interesting developments in true crime of journalism is the advent 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.400 of audio. These big long form podcast investigations and they 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:37.240 really are form of entertainment journalism packaged up in this 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:42.679 very easy to consume form. Has been the subject of 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.240 a podcast like this changed your perspective on how serious 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:46.880 all of this is. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.560 Yeah, definitely seeing the inner workings of a podcast and 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.000 seeing how much work goes into it and how many 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:58.200 conversations and how many interviews don't make it to the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.000 final cut is in insane because there's so much work 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.439 that goes into creating a condensed episode that everyone will 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.880 find entertaining and want to listen to. It's definitely interesting 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.880 to witness. And now when I listen to podcasts and 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:18.520 I hear family members speaking and hearing certain opinions and 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:23.560 certain ideas, you have to also keep the perspective that 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.080 that's not everything. That's just one opinion and one thought, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.120 but there's still more to the. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:35.079 Story coming up. What it's like when highly invested true 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:41.320 crime fans start obsessing about your family. Bromwin is an 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.520 investigation that's only possible thanks to the subscribers of The 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.640 Australian who get to hear episodes first, and to read 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.000 all our amazing stories about this cold case. Join us 0:10:51.120 --> 0:11:07.480 at Romwan podcast dot com. We have a very lively 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.319 Facebook group with nearly twenty thousand people in it who 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.520 are discussing this podcast every day. They're very frank with 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.200 their opinions and they can be posh. How have you 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.840 felt watching them discuss this very real life story in 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:23.360 that way? 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.959 Look as a family member, It's interesting to witness because 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.360 with a Facebook group, everyone is sitting behind a screen. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.120 They can say what they want, and some opinions are 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.840 harsh and some are just the truth, and you can't 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.520 really delete every comment you don't like and criticize people 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.200 for saying what they think. They are so invested in 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.760 this podcast, it's almost like I feel some people are 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.600 searching for the perfect murder in a way. So often 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.640 they ask questions or they have opinions that really will 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.840 never know the answers to. So it's often hard to 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.599 look at that and go, why are we being criticized 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.840 when we will never know that? Why are we being 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:11.760 criticized when in hindsight everything is twenty twenty vision, In 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.920 hindsight everything is different. You have to look at it 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:16.840 and take it with a grain of salt, and they 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.600 can share their opinion and it's a discussion group. It's 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.440 open to people to say what they think and give 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.440 their perspectives on the episodes and give their perspectives on 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.280 what they think of certain characters within the podcasts. At first, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.079 it was very like I was like, Oh my gosh, 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.719 they're very honest. They don't care that you're sitting there 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.199 also looking at this Facebook group and you read everything 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.839 that they say. It's been challenging to step back a 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.439 little bit and understand that they're not as connected as 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.920 I am. They really are just looking for entertainment. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.240 You can hear episodes eleven and twelve of from One 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:26.800 Now by subscribing at bromwe podcast dot com.