1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: the news from the Australian. From the Australian, Here's what's 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Thursday, September five. 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Jim Chalmer says the government is keeping Australia out of 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: recession after the economy recorded its weakest growth since nineteen 7 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: ninety one. The Treasurer says the Reserve Bank is wrong 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: to say the economy is running hot. It's all part 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: of a barney between the Bank and the government about 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: who's to blame for the rising cost of living. Talk 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: of a family curse and an audacious scam. Those are 12 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: the new twists in our blockbuster podcast investigation Bronwyn, led 13 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: by Hedley Thomas. Journalism can help solve crime, but it 14 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: can also expose the pain and grief buried within families. 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Today we meet a remarkable young woman walking both sides 16 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: of this story. How does the stack of gold bullion 17 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: become a box of cement? That's not a joke or 18 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: a riddle, it's the reality. For Crystal Winfield Neil, a 19 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: single mum living in Sydney, Crystal is the eldest daughter 20 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: of Bronwyn Winfield, who disappeared from Lennox Head on the 21 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: New South Wales North Coast just over three decades ago. 22 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: The bungled initial police investigation and Bromwyn's suspected murder of 23 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: the subject of The Australian's investigative podcast series Bronwyn, created 24 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,919 Speaker 1: by our national Chief correspondent Hedley Thomas. Growing up without 25 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: her mum has been hard on Crystal. Recently, she turned 26 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: to a spiritual teacher, a self described soul doctor for guidance. 27 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: Crystal has been searching for a way to bring permanent 28 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: positivity into her thinking and into her daily life. 29 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: That's Crystal's aunt and Bromwin's half sister, Kim Marshall. 30 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: She was approached by a strange person unknown to her 31 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: in the street a number of months ago, and she 32 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: has this understanding that this person who sat down with 33 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: her understored and knew what she was going through. 34 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: Kim's talking in one of two special new episodes of Bromwyn, 35 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: which are available now exclusively for the Australian subscribers at 36 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: bromwynpodcast dot com. 37 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: And she thought meeting these people which were in numbers 38 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: and different types of people that they would help her 39 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: on a spiritual path to actually no longer having this 40 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: weighted burden. 41 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: At first, Crystal's financial contribution to the Soul Doctor's cause 42 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: was modest, just a couple of hundred dollars. They told 43 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: her they provided charitable assistance to people in India. But 44 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: fast forward a couple of months and Crystal has been 45 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: scammed out of more than three hundred thousand dollars, her 46 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: entire life savings. 47 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: She believes that by her giving them the seventy thousand dollars, 48 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: they were going to take it away and bless it 49 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: and then they would return it to her, But apparently 50 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: that is no longer the case. But then there's the 51 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: other act of kindness that she did is where she 52 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: was asked to purchase a large number of gold and 53 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: that gold bullion is no longer gold bullion. It is 54 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: now actually a container full of cement. 55 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: At some point, the gold bullion Crystal purchase to be 56 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: blessed by the Soul Doctors was switched with an identical 57 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: container full of cement. Crystal recently opened up about being 58 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: scammed in the podcast's official discussion group. A voice actor 59 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: is reading her posts. 60 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: Honestly, our family has been through a lot. Both Mum 61 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 3: and I were very trusting people and as a result, 62 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: I was recently scammed my entire life savings by strangers. 63 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: It's the first time we've heard directly from Crystal in 64 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: this podcast series. She declined to be interviewed when Headley 65 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: first started investigating, but she's recently found her voice in 66 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: our lively Facebook group, where nearly twenty thousand listeners are 67 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: chatting and crowdsolving as the investigation unfolds. 68 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: Prised me as she trusted the wrong person, someone she 69 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: has just met, and they were responsible for her disappearance. 70 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 3: I also have other theories, but this seems likely to 71 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 3: me as I know she never would have left us 72 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: for long. 73 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: In episode eleven, which is live now exclusively for Ours subscribers, 74 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: Headley Thomas and Cristel's cousin Mattie Walsh, who's been working 75 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: with heavily on the podcast, discuss these developments. In episode twelve, 76 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: also live now for subscribers, Headly answers some of our 77 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: listeners burning questions. Crystal Winfield Neil trusted the Soul Doctors 78 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: because of an old bit of family law. 79 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 4: I heard about this curse when I actually went to 80 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 4: Sydney last year, and I may not be fully accurate 81 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 4: on it, but apparently there is what is known as 82 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 4: a read curse. 83 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Members of Crystal's extended family, like her Auntie Kim and 84 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: uncle Andy Bromwin, Winfield's brother, say the curse is just 85 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: a bit of a joke, but the told Bromwin's unsolved 86 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: disappearance has taken on her extended family is no laughing matter. 87 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 5: Well, it's been like opening up old wounds. Before the podcast, 88 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 5: I didn't really understand the depths of a lot of 89 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 5: these family issues and what Bromwin's disappearance did. 90 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: Madison Walsh is Bromwin's cousin on the Reed side. She 91 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: was born a decade after Bromwyn disappeared and has been 92 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: working with Headley on the podcast investigation. 93 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 5: And it's also a really tough subject because someone so 94 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 5: close to them has gone missing. Watching it unfold, you 95 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 5: have to keep in mind that this is the furthest 96 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 5: we've ever gone with Bronwin's case. This is the furthest 97 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 5: of the investigation has ever gone. So you, in a 98 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 5: way have to sacrifice a little bit of your personal 99 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 5: information and let it out there so that people can 100 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 5: feel something towards the case, so they feel more connected 101 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 5: to it, so they know that we're not always a 102 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 5: joint family unit, and we all have good days and 103 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 5: bad days, and not everyone agrees with each other's opinions, 104 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 5: and there's moments where family members aren't communicating because it's 105 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 5: just too hard, and it causes more arguments and it 106 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 5: does good discussions. It's tough. It is tough to be 107 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 5: in the middle of that, and things like the curse 108 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 5: come up, and most family members think, oh, it's just 109 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 5: tongue in cheek, it's just a funny thing that we 110 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 5: like to bring up every now and then as a joke. 111 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 5: But then other family members take it a bit more 112 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 5: seriously and maybe do think, hang on, is there a curse? 113 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, it's all based 114 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 5: on opinion. It's all based on how you feel, and 115 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 5: everyone has a right to have their own opinions and 116 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 5: feel how they want, and at the end of the day, 117 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 5: not everyone's going to agree with you. And that's basically 118 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 5: been the biggest lesson to learn. 119 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: Mattie's connection to bromwin Winfield inspired her to pursue a 120 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: career in forensic science when she graduated in May. She 121 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: never expected her first gig out of UNI to be 122 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: a true crime podcast investigation. 123 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 5: It was about a year ago and my aunt was 124 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 5: being interviewed by Hedley at her home not far from mine, 125 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 5: and she said that Hedley was coming over to interview 126 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 5: her and asked if I wanted to come and join, 127 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 5: because she knew of my forensics background and knew of 128 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 5: my interest, and I went. I just sat there, and 129 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 5: at certain points he asked for my import and he 130 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 5: discovered that I at that point was still studying forensic science, 131 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 5: and he asked me if I wanted to help him 132 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 5: out and work with him on the podcast. And I 133 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 5: was quite shocked that he was asking me because I 134 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 5: was twenty And it's been going well ever since. 135 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: Maddie had heard of Headley. Of course, he's the creator 136 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: of the global Juggernaut podcast The Teacher's Pet, which resulted 137 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: in the arrest of Christopher Michael Dawson over the nineteen 138 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: eighty two disappearance of his wife Lynn Simms. Dawson has 139 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: now been convicted of murder and child sex offending, and 140 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: he's in prison. Thanks to Headley's work One of the 141 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: interesting developments in true crime of journalism is the advent 142 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: of audio. These big long form podcast investigations and they 143 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: really are form of entertainment journalism packaged up in this 144 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: very easy to consume form. Has been the subject of 145 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: a podcast like this changed your perspective on how serious 146 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: all of this is. 147 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely seeing the inner workings of a podcast and 148 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 5: seeing how much work goes into it and how many 149 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 5: conversations and how many interviews don't make it to the 150 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 5: final cut is in insane because there's so much work 151 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 5: that goes into creating a condensed episode that everyone will 152 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 5: find entertaining and want to listen to. It's definitely interesting 153 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 5: to witness. And now when I listen to podcasts and 154 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 5: I hear family members speaking and hearing certain opinions and 155 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 5: certain ideas, you have to also keep the perspective that 156 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 5: that's not everything. That's just one opinion and one thought, 157 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 5: but there's still more to the. 158 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: Story coming up. What it's like when highly invested true 159 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: crime fans start obsessing about your family. Bromwin is an 160 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: investigation that's only possible thanks to the subscribers of The 161 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: Australian who get to hear episodes first, and to read 162 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: all our amazing stories about this cold case. Join us 163 00:10:51,120 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: at Romwan podcast dot com. We have a very lively 164 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: Facebook group with nearly twenty thousand people in it who 165 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: are discussing this podcast every day. They're very frank with 166 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: their opinions and they can be posh. How have you 167 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: felt watching them discuss this very real life story in 168 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: that way? 169 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 5: Look as a family member, It's interesting to witness because 170 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 5: with a Facebook group, everyone is sitting behind a screen. 171 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 5: They can say what they want, and some opinions are 172 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 5: harsh and some are just the truth, and you can't 173 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 5: really delete every comment you don't like and criticize people 174 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 5: for saying what they think. They are so invested in 175 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 5: this podcast, it's almost like I feel some people are 176 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 5: searching for the perfect murder in a way. So often 177 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 5: they ask questions or they have opinions that really will 178 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 5: never know the answers to. So it's often hard to 179 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 5: look at that and go, why are we being criticized 180 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 5: when we will never know that? Why are we being 181 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 5: criticized when in hindsight everything is twenty twenty vision, In 182 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 5: hindsight everything is different. You have to look at it 183 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 5: and take it with a grain of salt, and they 184 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 5: can share their opinion and it's a discussion group. It's 185 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 5: open to people to say what they think and give 186 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 5: their perspectives on the episodes and give their perspectives on 187 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 5: what they think of certain characters within the podcasts. At first, 188 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 5: it was very like I was like, Oh my gosh, 189 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 5: they're very honest. They don't care that you're sitting there 190 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 5: also looking at this Facebook group and you read everything 191 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 5: that they say. It's been challenging to step back a 192 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 5: little bit and understand that they're not as connected as 193 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 5: I am. They really are just looking for entertainment. 194 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: You can hear episodes eleven and twelve of from One 195 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Now by subscribing at bromwe podcast dot com.