1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Cod I welcome to the show. The other day on Wednesday, 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: when Deborah Francis White was here, she talked about the 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: way that kids learn versus the way that adults learn. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: And the next day, sure enough, that morning, I took 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Wolf off to his little gymnastics class, and I watched 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: him and all the other kids do exactly what she 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: had described as they were trying to learn how to 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: do this thing where they roll over a thing or 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: crawl through a thing. They make little ninja courses for them, 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: so it's a bit of fun. And yeah, they're all 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: terrible at it because they're four, but they couldn't just 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: wait to give it another try. And I was like, 13 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: oh shit, that's the thing she spoke about. What about 14 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: an adult? So I went on a bit of a 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: deep dive. I slipped down a slippery slope of figuring 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: out the actual time that it takes for a grown 17 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: person who doesn't have that kind of motor coordination that 18 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: little kids do, how long it takes for a grown 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: person to learn something, and the idea around how many 20 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: goes we give ourselves as an adult as an adult, 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: and I was quite surprised, And I do want to 22 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: get to that, but first I do need to pay 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: the bills, So here is some ads. We'll be back 24 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: after the break. Gooday, welcome to the show. This is 25 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: better than Yesterday, helping you make today better than yesterday 26 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen. My name is Josha Ginsburg. I'm a podcaster. 27 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 1: I'm a best selling author. I'm a husband, I'm a dad, 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm a step dad. I'm a glope that gets up 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: early most mornings and before everyone else is awake. I'll 30 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: sit down there with my massive spiral bound notebook and 31 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: write the emotionally reactive bananas shit that's coming out of 32 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: my skull that's telling me to be afraid of this 33 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: all that. I'll write it all down and I have 34 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: a look at it and go all right, there it 35 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: is on paper. Let's have a look at this. Let's 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: see what's going on here? Is there any evidence for this? 37 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: What's actually gotten there in there? Ah? I feel a 38 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: lot better. I have a second cup of coffee and 39 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: get it with my day. And I'm glad that you're here. 40 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today. Osha Againsberg 41 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: dot com. I'll put the link in the show notes, 42 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: but that's where you can go to, get on the 43 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: mailing list, get in touch to me, and listen to 44 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: every episode we've ever done. On Wednesday, we had DEBRAA. 45 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Frances White here. The Guilty Feminist podcast is what she hosts, 46 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 1: but she's also a very talented improv actor and incredibly 47 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: versed in the art of creativity. Not necessarily on stage creativity. 48 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: You're just being using our brains the way we're supposed 49 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: to use our brains. And I was thinking a lot 50 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: about what she said, which is, if you watch a 51 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: bunch of kids and they're trying to learn something new, 52 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: it's all about how many goes they get. Let me 53 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: try it again, let me try it again. For an adult, 54 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: it's how stupid well I look for it. I don't 55 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: get it right straight away. And the other morning at 56 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: Wolfe's gymnastics class, they're trying to learn some sort of 57 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: forward role or something, and look, the kids are falling 58 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: on their sides. No one's putting their head in the 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: right place. They've got to be spotted so they don't 60 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: break their spines. All that kind of stuff, you know, 61 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: it's what gymnastic classes are about. They would run around 62 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: and get back in line and stop pushing, shoving, you'll 63 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: get your turn, like it's all about how many goes 64 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: they get. Whereas an adult and I can speak with 65 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: some experience here, which I'll get to if we're not 66 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: good at it straight away many of us would be like, man, 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: I'm not good at that, and we'll just stop trying 68 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: and not get the joy out of whatever it is 69 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: we're trying to learn, because it takes time. For Christmas, 70 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, six months ago, Wolf, we asked Santa for 71 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: roller skates. And because Mum doesn't rollerskate, Georgia doesn't rollerskate, 72 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: but Dad here when he first moved to Sydney with 73 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: his ex girlfriend who was a former from North Queensland, 74 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have ice rings up there. So roll the 75 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: figure skating kid. We would go every week. I would 76 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: get my step turns down and I would you know, 77 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: would skate dance to call him and oak songs while 78 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: my ex was backward skating and doing some pistol squat 79 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: stuff over there, and I'm just like, I'm just having 80 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: a great time. So I got a pair of roller 81 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: that's for Christmas too, and we go to the netball 82 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: court nearby. It may have a sign there that says, 83 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: don't skateboard, so I read that as roller skating's okay. 84 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: I've got a four year old with me. Come on, 85 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: we'll get out of your way. And when we first started, 86 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: him and me, Oh, I've fallen my ass and stakes 87 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: are high. I've had three hypoplacements. I'm like on concrete. 88 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: I do not want more surgery. And as an adult 89 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: now I know because of something I went through when 90 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: I was about thirty eight. As an adult, I know 91 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: that what used to stop me from even trying that, 92 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: which was the If I fall my ass and someone 93 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: sees me, their judgment is something I should be terrified of. 94 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: I now know that their judgment does not hurt me. 95 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: Falling on my cosix on the concrete, that's what hurts. 96 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: And to be honest, their judgment, their laughter might come 97 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: from them not being brave enough to risk falling over themselves. 98 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: And therefore who's actually the winner. It's me because at 99 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: the end of all, there's one of us will be 100 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: able to roll escape, which is if we both have 101 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: that value. Like I think being able to roll escape 102 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: well is important. I would like to roll skate well 103 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: once again. I would like to do it with my son. 104 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: So one of us will be able to connect with 105 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: our family a little bit better than the other. So 106 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: therefore the following on the ass is worth it. And 107 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: I know that. But I have previously in my life 108 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: not tried things. And I would ask you is how 109 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: many times in your life have you not tried something? 110 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: Because the fear of the judgment of someone you might 111 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: not even know watching you not doing it perfectly is 112 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: so great that you haven't even started trying this, whatever 113 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: it is, painting, singing, dancing, driving, riding a motorbike, riding 114 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: a bicycle. I've met adults who say, oh, I don't 115 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: ride bicycles. I can't do that. Everyone can do it, 116 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: and you all did it as a kid. You can 117 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: learn again and it's fascinating. So I would wonder how 118 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: much things in your life are you not doing right 119 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: now because the idea of not doing it perfectly very 120 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: quickly stopped you from even starting. I went on a 121 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: bit of adventure looking at well, how much time does 122 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: it take now? If you've read the Malcolm Gladwell book Outliers, 123 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: you'll be aware of andrews Eriksson's ten thousand hours number. 124 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: He's a Swedish psychologist who came up with that. There's 125 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: research behind it. But the ten thousand hours, whether it's 126 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: skiing or playing piano, or roller skating or roll skating 127 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 1: in my case, from zero strapping on those roller skates 128 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: or skis to getting where you're going to go from 129 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: just like getting to so you're not falling over a 130 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: lot as a beginner, it's about twenty to forty hours 131 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: of focused practice, all right. That's from going having absolutely 132 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: no clue about what you're doing to okay, having a 133 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: bit of a basic grip. Right, So if it's playing piano, 134 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: you're like, okay, I can get my two hands doing 135 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: separate things or something I can definitely relate to you 136 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 1: as an adults, As an adult skiing and roller skating, 137 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: going from falling on I ask quite a bit to ah, 138 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: when I get all wobbly, I don't fall over. I 139 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: can stop, not when I'm going too fast, but I 140 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: can stop when I want to, and I can turn 141 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: in both directions, all right, twenty to forty hours. And 142 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: when I read that number, I was like, that actually 143 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: maps out because I was like fourteen the first time 144 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: I learned to ski. School ski trip. We were there 145 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: for five days, we're fourteen, we're frothing, So first to 146 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: last lift, it's about seven hours of actual time on 147 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: the mountain, Mountain Falls, Creek Hill. Because I've been to 148 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: proper mountains, I've got out statistic and the snowboarding in 149 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: the fast We'll get to that. But yeah, so about 150 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: seven hours when you take your lunch breakout, so about 151 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: thirty five hours that week. And I remember the last day, 152 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: I woke up just going whoa, and I could not 153 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: believe that I'd gone from on the first day not 154 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: being able to really do anything, and my ski is 155 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: coming off all the time and me falling off of 156 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: me spending most of the time standing up after I've 157 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: been falling over and hurting myself to the last day 158 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: just fanging down the mountain NonStop. That's about right thirty 159 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: five forty hours or so. Now to go from there. 160 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: Then I did the same again as you know, when 161 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: one had a snowboard, when I was about twenty eight 162 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: thirty or so. Going from there to actually being quite 163 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: competent is about one hundred hours is what you need 164 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: to get to one hundred to five hundred to be honest, 165 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: depending on you know how you are how fit you are, 166 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: what's going on in your brain, and that's a lot. 167 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: That's a lot of time. So the initial curve is 168 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: very steep learning curve, and then it starts to peter off. 169 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: But when you want to get from like say you're 170 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: a skier, right, and you're like, I can do black 171 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: diamonds at a pinch, and I'm all right, Because if 172 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: you've never been to a ski hill, they rank the runs green, blue, black, 173 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: then there's double black, and usually there's no lift. The 174 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: lift stops here and then the lift he says, see 175 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: up there with that sign is yeah, the cliffs on 176 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: the other side of that, and that's where you start. 177 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: So sometimes that I've been to double black diamond runs 178 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: where it starts with a five meter cliff job all right, nuts. 179 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: It was in Canada, absolutely nuts. So to get from 180 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: kind of I'm cool on the mountain everywhere to I 181 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: can go off cliff and not you know, fracture my FEMA. 182 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: That's anywhere between one thousand and ten thousand hours of 183 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: actual deliberate practice, not just I'm going out for a 184 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: skill of my friends. I'm going out to make sure 185 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: that when I turn left, my left knee is over 186 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: my toe and my balance and my weight is absolutely perfect. 187 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: So similarly, with a piano, I can play this tempo 188 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: on this particularly difficult rakmunn and off, and I can 189 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: do it absolutely perfectly, and people could pay to come 190 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: and see me and they would stand and cheer when 191 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: it was done. All right, So that is a huge 192 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: amount of time. And now most of us when we 193 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: think I'm going to surf or I'm going to lead 194 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: their ski, I'm going to lead it roller blade or whatever. 195 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: Roller blade inline skate, rollerblades's a trademark like Hoover. You know, 196 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: we might think I want to be great at it straightaway? 197 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: Are you giving yourself twenty to forty hour? What was 198 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: it like for me and Wolfee? We do it maybe 199 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: half an hour at a time before he gets tired. 200 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: I think we've done it five seven times. So he 201 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: and I up to to your math Skinsberg three and 202 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: a half hours, all right, we are still we're not 203 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: even anywhere it. We're like weeks away from getting anywhere 204 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: nearer twenty hours. And that's fine. He wants to do 205 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: it all the time, which I had more time to 206 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: do it, But are we giving ourselves that time? Are 207 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: we giving ourselves that deliberate practice that what am I 208 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: doing with this practice session? Wherever I am, am I 209 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: working on this thing, I'm working on that thing. Have 210 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: I got someone who can watch me and go, you're 211 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: doing this all wrong? Because that can save your heaps 212 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: of time because learning how to do things. Yeah, and 213 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: I had to underlearn a lot of this stuff with skiing, 214 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: particularly learning how to do things not the best way 215 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: is very hard to undo later. So someone who's there 216 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: to coach you is really really important. And how regularly 217 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: you do it, To be honest, the science actually says, 218 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: rather than big, long like every I'm doing a week intensive, 219 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: it's short frequent sessions are far more effective than longer, 220 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: infrequent ones. And I definitely had this experience. The first 221 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: one I first to learn how to snowboard, I fell 222 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: so badly I was purple from shoulder to knee the 223 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: first day. By the end of the second day, I 224 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: linked two turns together and I couldn't believe it. And 225 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: then I didn't do it again for a long time, 226 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, six months a year. When I 227 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: did it the next time, my subconscious had been reprogramming 228 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: things and I was able to link turns together really quickly. 229 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: It was extraordinary. Being fit helps and wanting to do 230 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: it for a reason. Why do I want to learn 231 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: how to roller skates so I can spend really quality 232 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: time with my son, all right, That's why I want 233 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: to do it. Also because I want to disco dance 234 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: on roller skates. That's something I've always wanted to do 235 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: my whole life, and I'm really looking forward to the 236 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: day when I do it because getting there is going 237 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: to be great. The practice, the go those that I 238 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: get with Wolfgang, it's going to be great. And hopefully 239 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: dancing to the bus stop on the rollerskates is going 240 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: to be awesome, and I'm really really looking forward to that. 241 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Roller Skating is what I'm working on right now. But 242 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: I've done this with something else in my life, and 243 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: what I learned out of that. I want to tell 244 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: you I was nearly forty, but I do need to 245 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: play some ad so I'll be right back. Thanks for 246 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: sticking with us. We were talking about how many gos 247 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: you give yourself as an adult and what we are 248 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: missing out on by not giving ourselves enough goes at 249 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: the thing that we want to get good at, Like 250 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: what's our life not full of because we didn't give 251 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: ourselves enough goes, learning French, speaking Spanish, creating tacos from scratch, 252 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: whatever it is. When I was about thirty eight or so, 253 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: I told this story before. It was my birthday and 254 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: I was in Vail, Colorado with my friend Jackson, and 255 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: it was my birthday. So I was like, you know 256 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: what I have in ski since I was nineteen and 257 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: I was thirty eight that day, let's hire some skis. 258 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: So here, and I went and hired some skis and 259 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: it had me twenty years or so since I'd done it. 260 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: And up on the left we went. I was trapped 261 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: on some rosignols and off we go. Now, at that 262 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: time Jackson was a very good snowboarder as well, but 263 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: I kindly speak for myself. I was a good snowboarder, 264 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: like really good. I had no interest in being helly 265 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: lifted out the back of some backcountry thing. So I 266 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: wasn't doing any of that, you know, giant like hiking 267 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: for hours to do one rundown a thing through eight 268 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: feet of powder wearing a transporter. I just wasn't really 269 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: interested in that sort of thing, the kind of trips 270 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: that I would take. I was off and alone. I 271 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: didn't know anybody in those towns. I didn't want to 272 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: be way out in the back country with people i'd 273 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: only just met. I was not really interested in doing 274 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And plus I've broken a hand, 275 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: I've done my acl. I'm like, my board's going to 276 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: stay on the snow. I'm just going to have a 277 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: freaking fun time in bounds. And I did. I had 278 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: the best time ever id And then I started to 279 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: get a bit board with it. I'd snowboard backwards, I'd 280 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: do the whole day goofy. I'd do it with one 281 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: foot out. After I watched Dogtown and z Boys a 282 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: few times, I'd do all these big powerslides of one 283 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: foot out. And there I was on skis again. And 284 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: because I was living in America, I had access to 285 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: actual proper mountains, the kind that I would get to 286 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: the top of the left and get out dude sickness 287 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: from like the ones in Utah. And not long after 288 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: my birthday, I went out to Utah and I rented 289 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: some skis again, and off I went. And the thing is, 290 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: the pressure is really on. I paid a lot of 291 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: money to be there, and the left tickets are expensive, 292 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: and the flights are expensive. It comm's expensive. And so 293 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm putting on these skis and I'm on the bunny run, 294 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm on the green run, and I'm falling over and 295 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: my skis are coming off and I'm hitting the deck 296 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: and I'm hurting my hands and I'm hurting my ass. 297 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: I'm wearing a helmet. But and I was just so frustrated. 298 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: My ego's gone drawsh fuck and people are fo tying 299 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: passed me on snowboards backwards one foot out allah what 300 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: I used to do. And I was just, oh my god, 301 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm ruining my day and I'm ruining I'm wasting money, 302 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: wasting time. Take a breath, what's happening here? Because I 303 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: was sober by at this point, so I'm like, okay, 304 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: what's going on here? Ah, this is a beautiful lesson 305 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: in humility. Okay, let's see what I can get out 306 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: of this. So every time i'd fall over and my 307 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: ego and my hubris and my grandiosity was getting in there, 308 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, anyway, mate, hallo, yeah, we're just learning 309 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: how to do this. And I took the time. It 310 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: was really hard and it was a lot of work. 311 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: I was taking lessons too. I was taking lessons with kids. 312 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: I'm in a lesson with an eight year old who's 313 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: doing better than I am, and I'm like thirty years 314 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: older than them. And it was tough, man, because I 315 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: hadn't really been on that journey with my ego that 316 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean, every day's a journey with my ego. But 317 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: I hadn't done that part yet. So there I was, 318 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: and boy, oh boy, it was hard. But every time 319 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: I fell over, I remembered, I'm not actually doing this 320 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: to learn how to ski. I'm doing this because learning 321 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: is fun. I really want to know how to ski 322 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: quite well. And I'm getting a lot out of beating 323 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: my ego into the ground and having a bit of 324 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: humility served upon me. Remember, find humility before humility finds you. 325 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: And it didn't take long, thankfully, but I gave myself 326 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: a lot of goes and I spent a fair bit 327 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: of time out in those mountains that winter and then 328 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: the following winter, and it wasn't long before I was 329 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: taking deliberate practice. I would just go, Okay, so this run, 330 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to work on this, And again I was 331 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: out there alone. I'm going to work on this at 332 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: this tree. I'm going to do that. I'm going to 333 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: this run. I'm going to focus on this knee this run, 334 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on this hand. Whatever it is, 335 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: it's all about body positioning. And soon enough, soon enough, 336 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: I was getting better and better and better. And now 337 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: after we got married, Audrey and I went on what 338 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: we call it out Georgia moon, because right after our wedding, 339 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, most people have a honeymoon, we took Georgia. 340 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: So we went on a Georgia moon, went to Japan, 341 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: we went skiing, and Audrey hadn't shed snowballed before, but 342 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: George is quite a good scare. And I'm just happy 343 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: to be on the mountain now. I'm just happy to 344 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: be out there, out in the trees, out in the wildlife. 345 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: It's nice because people I laugh. And now I'm at 346 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: the point where I was skiing backwards because that was 347 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: the same pace that Audrey was going, and that was fun. 348 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't showing off. I was just just doing it, 349 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: just something to work on the ski backwards, and that 350 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: was really really fun. But it took a heap of work, 351 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: and it took being willing to be with that thing 352 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: in my brain that was trying to say that person 353 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: over there is laughing at you. They're not. They don't 354 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: give a hoot. Hey, how are your mate? WHOA wolf 355 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: has just come into the room and he's got bare 356 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: feet on it for you. Are they slippers? Yes? Are 357 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: they koalas? No dinosaur fe dinosaur feet. They look like 358 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: koala feet. But I like them a lot. I say 359 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: that this day. They're really good. So they're they're dinosaur slippers, 360 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: do you know, Wolfe. I used to have a pair 361 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: of slippers just like this when I played in a band. 362 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: I played double bass in a band called Resin Dogs, 363 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: and I used to wear these on stage. I had 364 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: some of the chickens too, chickens. I'ld be on stage 365 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: with chickens on my feet exactly exactly right, surprise, they're 366 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: so good. Thank you for my slippers. I was so excited. 367 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: I will actually because it's cold in here, I sure can. 368 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: Am I going to turn into a dinosaur when I 369 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: put them on? Fluffy? So I think it's a koala 370 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: to be honest, ro Thank you for my slippers, all right, Ziah? 371 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: I love you? Bye wah ah you pu kisses. So yeah, 372 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: that guy the other day reminded me the other Oh, yeah, 373 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: the more goes you give yourself, the more fun it is. 374 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: And that's the really enormous scene that I got out 375 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: of speaking with Debra the other day was as adults, 376 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: we just don't give ourselves enough guys. So I guess 377 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: i'd ask you, how many guys are you going to 378 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: give yourself whatever it is, whatever the thing you want 379 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: to get good at. How many gooys are you willing 380 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: to give yourself because if it's going to take twenty 381 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: to forty hours of doing it deliberately, are you going 382 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: to give yourself enough goes to get to that number? 383 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: Looking back? How many things in your life did you 384 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: stop doing because he didn't give yourself enough? Guys? Wolfee 385 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: trying to do his forward role thing that he was 386 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: doing here on the count the other day, like you 387 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: ordering over that to support him, just frothing. Those kids 388 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: cannot wait, they don't want to leave. It's always a hasslader. 389 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: We got to go now, Bud. He spent the next 390 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: classes here because they know how good it feels to 391 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: learn something, and you can't get that feeling in your brain, 392 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: that feeling of the new neural pathways, getting created the 393 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: jaw and the dopamine rusham acquiring competency, even minuscule competency 394 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: at whatever it is you're trying to learn how to do. 395 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: You can't get good at something if you're already good 396 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: at it. The true joy of learning how to do something, 397 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: the reward comes from getting it wrong. There is no 398 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: learning how to ski or roller skate or surf. There 399 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: is no learning how to do that without falling over. 400 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: That is a part of learning. Failure is a part 401 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: of learning, and we absolutely cheat ourselves from the true 402 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: joy of being able to experience the amazingness of this world. 403 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: However we choose to experience it on skis, roller skates, surfboards, 404 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: out of golf course, speaking Spanish, whatever it is. We 405 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: cheat ourselves out of that by letting that fear get 406 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: in the way of us giving ourselves enough goes. Twenty 407 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: hours is a lot. So if you're not at twenty 408 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: hours yet, we're forty forty. Give yourself on the high side. 409 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: If you're not at four twenty hours yet of whatever 410 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: it is you're trying to learn how to do, you 411 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: haven't given yourself enough, guys. But I'll be pretty sure 412 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: by the time you get close, even close to twenty, 413 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: you'll already start to feel that momentum because it starts 414 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: to set off a reward loop that you really start 415 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: to enjoy. So whenever that fear kicks in, when you're 416 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: starting something new that you don't immediately good at, when 417 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: you fall in your ars on the netball court, honest 418 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: set of roller skates, not a skateboard, the science escateboard, 419 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: and you think that someone's laughing at you. Eight they're not. 420 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: They've got other things to do. But even if they are, yeah, 421 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: fuck them. They won't be able to disco dance to 422 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: Kyle men Oak spinning around and you can. And that's 423 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: something I think I really want to do on my 424 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: sixtieth birthday. So I'm giving myself ten years. That's a 425 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: lot of goes. Give yourself some goes. Let me know 426 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: how you go as your goes. Yeah, thanks for listening. 427 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 1: I'll see you Monday. This episode was brought to you 428 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: for Andy Marer on audio post production, Mikey Ward on 429 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: video post production. Toe High to made all the music 430 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: go and listen to his new album It's Fat. My 431 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: producer is Bruce deel My executive function assistant, his Monika Chapman, 432 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: for every episode ever. To get on the mailing list 433 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: and get in touch to the contact for him, just 434 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: head to Osheginsburg dot com. It's in the show notes. 435 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.