WEBVTT - Inside Nine's journalism cuts: 'Quite a few people suspected retribution'

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<v Speaker 1>From Shorts Media. I'm Rick Morton. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>If you pick up a copy of The Age or

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<v Speaker 1>the Sydney Morning Herald, you'll see the tagline independent always

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<v Speaker 1>under the masthead. Now, as journalists of those papers real

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<v Speaker 1>from a recent announcement that two hundred jobs would be

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<v Speaker 1>cut across the company, some are wondering if they've been

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<v Speaker 1>targeted for being two independent.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people have been asking whether this disproportionate

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<v Speaker 2>cut is payback because of the coverage of the papers

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<v Speaker 2>ran On, Sneezeby and Costello. Sneezebee, of course, being the

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<v Speaker 2>CEO of the Nine Empire, and Costello being the chairman.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the board. The cuts come at a terrible time

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<v Speaker 1>for Australian media, with jobs going at Channel seven News

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<v Speaker 1>Corps and others as well. It seems almost nowhere is immune.

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<v Speaker 1>Today National correspondent for the Saturday Paper, Mike Sekham and

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<v Speaker 1>why the Australian media is struggling and what it means

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<v Speaker 1>for the future of independent news. It's Tuesday, ninth of July. Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>You've been talking to journalists at what used to be

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<v Speaker 1>the Fairfax Papers, now the Nine Newspapers. Take me to

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<v Speaker 1>the moment that they found out that there would be

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<v Speaker 1>these significant mass job losses.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was just before ten thirty in the morning Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty eighth of June, same day as the big

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<v Speaker 2>debate between Trump and Biden. So you know, a normal

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<v Speaker 2>not particularly busy newsday in the office, and then a

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<v Speaker 2>message just popped up, first of all, a Slack message

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<v Speaker 2>saying please, you know, go to your email and have

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<v Speaker 2>a look at this email from Mike Sneezebe. And there's

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<v Speaker 2>the email announcing job cuts. And according to all the

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<v Speaker 2>sources I spoke to, things got very intense, very fast

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<v Speaker 2>from that moment, because somewhere between seventy and ninety jobs

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<v Speaker 2>were to go from publishing that is, the old Fairfax papers,

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<v Speaker 2>only thirty eight from TV news and current affairs, and

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<v Speaker 2>the rest to be made up from sort of head

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<v Speaker 2>office and digital and stuff, but falling very heavily on

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<v Speaker 2>publishing on the old newspapers. Suddenly, nobody who wasn't tasked

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<v Speaker 2>to do it was watching the debate, and journalists were

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<v Speaker 2>gathering in little knots all around the newsroom discussing the email,

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<v Speaker 2>calling around their colleagues, emailing them, you know, all that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of thing and trying to work out why this

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<v Speaker 2>was suddenly happening to them because there hadn't been a

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<v Speaker 2>redundancy round it at the old Fairfax papers for something

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<v Speaker 2>like seven years, So you know why now was the question.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course news in a newsroom travels faster than

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<v Speaker 1>even in the ordinary world. What did it take for

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<v Speaker 1>people to make sense of what was actually happening and

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<v Speaker 1>what were they started to say when they made those calls.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're right, news does travel faster than in the

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<v Speaker 2>ordinary world. The other good thing is if you're reporting

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<v Speaker 2>on it. Journalists are compulsive communicators, so you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't very hard for me to find a whole lot

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<v Speaker 2>of sources to talk about this. Let me quote directly

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<v Speaker 2>from one senior reporter. A lot of people have been

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<v Speaker 2>asking whether this disproportionate cut is payback because of the

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<v Speaker 2>coverage the papers ran on Sneezeby and Costello. Sneezebey, of

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<v Speaker 2>course being the CEO of the Nine Empire, and Costello

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<v Speaker 2>being the chairman of the board. So this reporter was

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<v Speaker 2>referring to the revelations of a few weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 3>Nine has been accused of covering up allegations that it's

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<v Speaker 3>legendary news guru, former director of News and Current Affairs

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<v Speaker 3>Darren Wick, behaved inappropriately towards women.

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<v Speaker 2>Multiple women came forward with allegations that Darren Wick, the

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<v Speaker 2>former head of nine's Television and Current Affairs news division,

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<v Speaker 2>had drunkenly groped them and made unwanted sexual advances.

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<v Speaker 4>The revelations have sent shockwaves through the media industry, with

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<v Speaker 4>sources entering the Frey to allege that Nine not only

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<v Speaker 4>knew about Wick's alleged behavior but covered it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Wick resign on March fifteen with a reported million dollar payout.

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<v Speaker 2>The claim of the sexual harassment, et cetera were first

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<v Speaker 2>reported in the Murdoch Media, and the Nine papers immediately

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<v Speaker 2>weighed in, painting a very unflattering picture, of course, of

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<v Speaker 2>the culture at the other nine division, Television and News

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<v Speaker 2>and Current Affairs, and also the apparent failure of senior

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<v Speaker 2>executives and the Nine board to do anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was reported that there had been non disclosure

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<v Speaker 2>agreements used to silence the complainants, that the board and

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<v Speaker 2>sneezeby the Chief Executive had been aware of complaints against

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<v Speaker 2>Wick before they agreed to this large payout. So here

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<v Speaker 2>was one part of the Nine Empire, reporting on another

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<v Speaker 2>part of the Nine Empire and reporting pretty grim stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>Frankly, why won't you support mister sneezebe publicly goods? Well,

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<v Speaker 5>you've got to answer the questions, mister Castilla, you've just

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<v Speaker 5>assaulted me.

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<v Speaker 2>And you'll remember, of course that it had ended up

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<v Speaker 2>with Peter Costello the chairman of the board resigning a

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<v Speaker 2>few weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Former Treasurer Peter Costello has stepped down as chairman of

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<v Speaker 1>Nine Entertainments just days after an altercation with a journalist

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<v Speaker 1>at Canberra Airport.

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<v Speaker 2>You might know, anyway, Costello didn't survive. Sneezebee survives for now.

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<v Speaker 2>Then he announces all these job cuts. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>given all the recent history, it's not really surprising that

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<v Speaker 2>quite a few people suspected retribution in the latest job cuts.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't pass up the idea that Sneezebee falters over

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<v Speaker 1>in television and publishing catches a could. Now they're dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with the fallout. How's the company handling the suspicion in

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<v Speaker 1>the anger that's risen up through the ranks.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there were hastily arranged town hall meetings so called

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<v Speaker 2>involving various editors and staff on the floor, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>got to say these appeared only to make things worse.

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<v Speaker 1>The way it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Put to me was that it became immediately obvious to

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<v Speaker 2>everyone that the editors themselves hadn't found out what was

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<v Speaker 2>coming much before the rest of the staff had, and

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't really able to give any further details. So

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<v Speaker 2>early afternoon there's a union meeting held on Zoom and

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<v Speaker 2>it was very angry. Some people were saying let's walk,

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<v Speaker 2>but that didn't happen. Instead, a resolution was passed expressing

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<v Speaker 2>the fury. That was the word they used of the

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<v Speaker 2>staff at the age the Sydney Morning Herald, Australian Financial Review,

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<v Speaker 2>WA Today and The Brisbane Times. And I might quote

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<v Speaker 2>for him it because it's sort of alluded to the

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<v Speaker 2>conspiracy theory that this was payback. It said. We note

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<v Speaker 2>the recent poor behavior and cultural issues in other parts

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<v Speaker 2>of the company, which has been widely reported, and the

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<v Speaker 2>role that the independent reporting of the publishing division has

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<v Speaker 2>played in upholding the reputation of the company's news division.

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<v Speaker 2>We demand an explanation from the company about why the

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<v Speaker 2>publishing division appears to have been disproportionately targeted for job losses.

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<v Speaker 2>They went on in the resolution to question whether they

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<v Speaker 2>were being targeted because of the fact that it was

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<v Speaker 2>a unionized shop, and the resolution also moved no confidence

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<v Speaker 2>in Nine chief executive Mike Sneezbe and the Nine Entertainment

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<v Speaker 2>Company board. It passed unanimously.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break, how social media giants are

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<v Speaker 1>discipanding news in Australia. Mike, We've been hearing that journalist

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<v Speaker 1>at the Nine newspapers suspected they've been targeted for their

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<v Speaker 1>reporting on their own company, certainly other divisions of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's been a bad time for the media across

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<v Speaker 1>the board. Really, can you tell me a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about where that's happening elsewhere?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're entirely right, of course. Underlying all of this

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<v Speaker 2>is the fact that it's just hard times in media.

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<v Speaker 2>Last month, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp announced its biggest restructuring

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<v Speaker 2>in a decade. There's already been a bit of a

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<v Speaker 2>reshuffling at the top at the sort of editorial level,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's yet to be revealed how many jobs will go.

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<v Speaker 2>But they're arely to cut custs by sixty five million dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>so you can expect that there will be quite a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of jobs disappearing very shortly. The Murdock Media, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>is a bit of a black box. You never hear

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<v Speaker 2>as much about what's going on as you do out

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<v Speaker 2>of the more democratic institution of Fairfax. Then two weeks

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<v Speaker 2>ago Seven West Media, which is controlled by the Western

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<v Speaker 2>Australian billionaire Kerry Stokes, he announced that staff there would

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<v Speaker 2>be cut by one hundred and fifty in pursuit of

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred million dollars in savings. And a similar story

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<v Speaker 2>is happening all across the country in media large and small.

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<v Speaker 2>Revenue is declining, budgets are stressed, and ultimately, of course

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<v Speaker 2>that has impacts on staffing.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been tough for legacy media for some time.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm told that it's one of the worst advertising markets

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<v Speaker 1>ever in newspapers. Is that why we're seeing all of

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<v Speaker 1>these cuts all at once right now or is there

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<v Speaker 1>more to it?

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<v Speaker 2>You're right, it has been tough for a while. When

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<v Speaker 2>I spoke to THEMBA, that's you know, the Journalist Union,

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<v Speaker 2>the media acting director Michelle Ray described this week of

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<v Speaker 2>cuts quote one of the most harrowing weeks she'd seen

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<v Speaker 2>in journalism and who can deny it as to why.

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<v Speaker 2>A couple of years ago, a deal was struck between

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<v Speaker 2>the big social media company Meta you know, which runs Facebook,

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<v Speaker 2>and the search engine Google, which runs YouTube, among other things,

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<v Speaker 2>to pay Australian media companies for the news that they

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<v Speaker 2>picked up from those companies. This was under something called

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<v Speaker 2>the News Media Bargaining Code and that allowed nine to

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<v Speaker 2>seven News Corp all the other players in the industry

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<v Speaker 2>to reinvest some money in journalism and collectively this amounted

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<v Speaker 2>to several hundred million dollars between the two big tech

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<v Speaker 2>companies spread across the various media large and small. Back

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<v Speaker 2>in February, Meta announced that it would not renew its deals,

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<v Speaker 2>so Bengo's maybe one hundred and fifty million dollars. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't know exactly because these things are commercial in confidence,

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<v Speaker 2>but nonetheless this was a big deal. This was funding

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of journalism. Since then, the MEAA has been

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<v Speaker 2>calling on the Federal government to designate as they call it,

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<v Speaker 2>Meta under the code and forced to continue paying. The

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<v Speaker 2>government hasn't acted, and frankly there's real doubt about what

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<v Speaker 2>it can do.

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<v Speaker 1>And nine, I mean nine quite apart from other Australian

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<v Speaker 1>media companies seem to have been doing quite you know,

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<v Speaker 1>quite okay in the last few years.

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<v Speaker 2>They were, and you know, when you speak to the

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<v Speaker 2>analysts about this, Nine was actually pretty well run compared

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<v Speaker 2>with the other big companies seven West Media. Its share

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<v Speaker 2>price at the moment, I think it's something like eighteen cents, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's lost ninety five percent or something of its value

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<v Speaker 2>over the past couple of decades, so it's enormous. It

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<v Speaker 2>has not been nearly as bad at nine. Back in February,

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<v Speaker 2>Nine reported revenue for the six months to December of

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<v Speaker 2>one point four one one billion, which was up five percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Net profit after tax was one hundred and ninety million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that was down a bit, It was down about

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen percent due to increased costs, but you know, that's

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<v Speaker 2>still a pretty healthy return. And interestingly enough, the one

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<v Speaker 2>section of the business in which revenue growth exceeded costs

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<v Speaker 2>was publishing, which is another reason that it seems odd

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<v Speaker 2>that the cuts have fallen disproportionate are publishing so compared

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<v Speaker 2>with the other legacy media, Nine's done pretty well and

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<v Speaker 2>part of the reason for that was because they had

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<v Speaker 2>this suite of complementary units. They had the quality of

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<v Speaker 2>the Fairfax papers amplified by the reach of the electronic media.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus they had right wing shouters on talkback radio. They

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<v Speaker 2>had the specialist publication of the finn Review. They had

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<v Speaker 2>the gamut pretty well covered and as a result they

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<v Speaker 2>were a bit more resilient. On Monday, the managing director

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<v Speaker 2>of Nine Publishing, Tory Maguire, held another big town hall meeting,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've got to say it didn't go well. For

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<v Speaker 2>some of the reasons the earlier ones didn't go well.

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<v Speaker 2>She didn't add much to the sum total of knowledge. Furthermore,

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<v Speaker 2>staff were already pissed off. As one attendee put it,

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<v Speaker 2>that Sneezebey wasn't there because he'd left to go on

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<v Speaker 2>holidays to Greece shortly after sending out the email telling

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<v Speaker 2>them all that two hundred of their jobs would be

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<v Speaker 2>gone soon. So that didn't help the mood of the

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<v Speaker 2>troops and it didn't improve anywhere. And when Tory Maguire

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<v Speaker 2>sort of preemptively told them that she too was about

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<v Speaker 2>to go on leave and she was going to Fiji.

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<v Speaker 2>So everyone at the old Fairfax Media is in a

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<v Speaker 2>state of sort of hiatus I was speaking to some

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<v Speaker 2>of them on the weekend. They're all frantically doing their

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<v Speaker 2>numbers and trying to work out how much they would

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<v Speaker 2>get in redundancy if they took up the offer.

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<v Speaker 1>Suddenly we're all interested in mathematics.

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<v Speaker 2>Not always the strongest point of journalists, I can tell

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<v Speaker 2>you from personal experience.

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<v Speaker 1>I know. I mean, like there's a bit of dark

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<v Speaker 1>humour around job losses in journalism in particular, and of

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.000
<v Speaker 1>course it's sad and it's not good news for anybody,

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<v Speaker 1>but readers are the ones ultimately who I think suffer,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in this case where you know, Fairfax newspapers still

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<v Speaker 1>do some of the best investigative reporting and some of

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<v Speaker 1>the most public interest journalism in the country. What will

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<v Speaker 1>the impact be of these cuts, because you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>might not get rid of a Nick mackenzie, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>but people who do the bread and butter stuff, who

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<v Speaker 1>support those bigger names, maybe.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's right, and we've already seen this. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>when I were a lad, you know, you had all

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.400
<v Speaker 2>these special reporters covering specialist rounds beats, you know, and

0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 2>there's not nearly as much of that anymore. So there's

0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.480
<v Speaker 2>lots of stuff already that is not as comprehensively covered

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<v Speaker 2>as it once was, and you'd have to think that

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to get worse, you know, as you allude

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<v Speaker 2>to fair facts. Is particularly interesting case, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like the Murdock papers, it's not like seven West,

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<v Speaker 2>where they are to some extent beholden to the ideology

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>and moods of their of their owners. It says right

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<v Speaker 2>under the mast head, it says independent always, and the

0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 2>staff actually take that quite seriously. And I might add

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<v Speaker 2>that that is undergirded by the fact that they're a

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<v Speaker 2>union shop and the union is fiercely predictive in every

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 2>round of negotiations about the charter of independence. So if

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>management is going after them because they unionized and because

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<v Speaker 2>they were independent, well that's a particularly sad thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Secam, thank you so much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot rick, Could you Michael Ops?

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking to my head it'd be funny to

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<v Speaker 1>got you Michael instead of Mike, and then I actually

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<v Speaker 1>did it. Also in the news today, the CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>nine owned youth publisher Pedestrian Group has announced he'll be

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<v Speaker 1>leaving the business as forty jobs are said to be cut.

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<v Speaker 1>These jobs are in addition to the two hundred jobs

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<v Speaker 1>already announced by nine. The company will restructure and titles

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<v Speaker 1>including Vice, Refinery twenty nine, Gizmodo and Life Hacker will

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<v Speaker 1>no longer be published in Australia and Marine. Le Penn's

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<v Speaker 1>far right National Rally has failed to take power in

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the French election. In a shock result, a left wing

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>coalition won the most seats, with President Emmanuel mccron's Centrist

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<v Speaker 1>Alliance in second and the far right in third. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Rick Morton, misus seven am, see you tomorrow.