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Speaker 1: I'll get a team.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another installment and the project, Craigsmind. I'm doctor

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Speaker 2: Hannah is up there and thriving metropolis of Sydney. Apparently

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Speaker 2: it's cold. She's sitting with the heater just blowing on

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Speaker 2: her feet, just just wasting all the energy. No, see

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Speaker 2: how I threw you under the bus straight away?

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Speaker 3: I look bad.

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Speaker 1: No, you don't.

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Speaker 2: You're just trying to stay warm. That's okay.

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Speaker 3: My toes they're like icicles.

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Speaker 4: My partner tells me every time I go to bed,

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Speaker 4: my favorite place to put them is right under his thumb.

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Speaker 4: And apparently they're like the ten toes of death because

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Speaker 4: they're just little icicles. I'm sure a lot of other

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Speaker 4: women can relate to that, or partners of of death.

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Speaker 3: Really okay, very cold?

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Speaker 1: You know you put your feet under his bum.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like when we're sitting on the couch, when we're

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Speaker 4: in bed, like, I'll just like put them underneath his

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Speaker 4: body because they're nice and warm.

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Speaker 3: I don't trust me.

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Speaker 4: I'm not the only woman who does that. I am

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Speaker 4: sure there are other women who do that.

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely sure. Now you sound a little bit sick today.

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Speaker 1: Have you got the flu? Have you got COVID, are you?

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't have the flu. I don't have COVID.

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Speaker 3: Actually I have morning sickness.

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Speaker 1: Oh my, oh oh. Now have I told you about

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Speaker 1: the Craig bonus. I think I have.

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Speaker 3: My name, my baby Craig. Yeah. I do like Harper.

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Speaker 3: I like Harper a lot.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what some of my I think about

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Speaker 2: three and nothing to do with me, of course, But

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Speaker 2: three or four of my friends have a guy who

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Speaker 2: used to work for me, Sam Wood, who now is

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Speaker 2: a megastar. Sam He was a bachelor and he owns

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Speaker 2: a company called twenty eight and he's.

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Speaker 1: Got a little girl called Harper.

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Speaker 2: So of course, Prince and Brad and Carly, friends of

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Speaker 2: mine who I'm the fit shop, they've got a little

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Speaker 2: girl called Harper.

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Speaker 1: It's funny how there's got.

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Speaker 2: Nothing to do with your area of expertise or mine,

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Speaker 2: But fuck.

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Speaker 1: It, isn't it funny?

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Speaker 2: Isn't it funny how names go through kind of waves

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Speaker 2: like where that's up and about you know, three or

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Speaker 2: four or five or six years, and then it disappears.

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Speaker 4: Well, what I'd really like is and this is a

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Speaker 4: little bit tapp into the psychology, but I give my

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Speaker 4: daughter a name, and we know it's a girl. We

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Speaker 4: found out the other week. They're very exciting. I'd like

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Speaker 4: to give her, like a unisex name that's not obviously

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Speaker 4: a girl's name, because I want her to do her

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Speaker 4: best in life and reach her best potential. And I

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Speaker 4: don't know, Craig, if you can relate to this, probably not.

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Speaker 4: But as a woman, I have found that having the

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Speaker 4: name Hannah on reports or having a female name has

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Speaker 4: been met with, you know, people who perhaps have not

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Speaker 4: taken me as seriously had my name been a man's name.

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Speaker 4: Perhaps that that what I've written to them may have

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Speaker 4: been received a little better or a little you know,

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Speaker 4: with a bit more acceptance with who am I?

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Speaker 3: What do I know? I just I wonder sometimes if

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Speaker 3: my life.

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Speaker 4: Would have been a little easier if I had a

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Speaker 4: unisex name.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So if we could, if we could magic it

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Speaker 2: into existence? What what well have you have you narrowed

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Speaker 2: down a list be your daughter?

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Speaker 1: Of course you might not even close.

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Speaker 4: It's so hard to pick a name because it's like

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Speaker 4: for the rest of her life, she'll she'll have this name,

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Speaker 4: and I want.

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Speaker 3: Her to do well in life.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm really I feel like I've joined this club

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Speaker 4: finally where I'm like finally started to get you know,

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Speaker 4: the parents who like they've had a child, they get

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Speaker 4: certain things that I've done before I fell pregnant, and

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Speaker 4: now I'm finally understanding the pressure of certain things like, oh,

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Speaker 4: picking her name is actually really difficult. Yeah, surprisingly had.

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Speaker 2: Now his his fun fact. I've got a friend. His

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Speaker 2: name is Hannah.

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Speaker 3: Oh really like Hannah, like like Hannah.

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Speaker 1: Hannah, same as you h a n n ah, there

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Speaker 1: you go.

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Speaker 4: How is I wonder how he's found that. Does he

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Speaker 4: like having a name that sort of uni set?

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Speaker 1: I think?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 2: He actually owns a restaurant in Brighton, Yeah, which is

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Speaker 2: the next town long And and he's big dude, like

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Speaker 2: big strong, not that it matters, but big, large, strong,

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Speaker 2: alpha male called Hannah. So yeah, I wonder if when

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Speaker 2: he signs things that people assume that he's I guess

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Speaker 2: they would.

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Speaker 1: I guess they would.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 4: I actually I read about this study where you know,

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Speaker 4: a male and female, like just case anecdote or really

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Speaker 4: case study of where they swapped names in an organization

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Speaker 4: and the gentleman wrote emails with her name at the bottom,

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Speaker 4: and the woman wrote emails with his name at the bottom,

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Speaker 4: and then he was doing the same things he'd always

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Speaker 4: done with his sales and with his working and then

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, after swapping names, he started having

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Speaker 4: difficulties with client interactions, people questioning him, people making his

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Speaker 4: life hard, questioning his ability to give them the right advice,

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Speaker 4: just just making the whole process a lot harder. And

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Speaker 4: he realized the only thing that had changed was that

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Speaker 4: he was signing off with his colleagues, you know, a

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Speaker 4: female colleagues name instead of his own name, Whereas she

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Speaker 4: had the opposite effect of people being easier to work with,

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Speaker 4: process going much smoother, people accepting her opinion and her advice.

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Speaker 4: So it was just kind of this really initial, very

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Speaker 4: brief study, but it really captured me. So I couldn't help.

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Speaker 4: But wonder, you know, how much impact does it have

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Speaker 4: on our I suppose, our ability to work with others

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Speaker 4: depending on how they perceive you or they've even met you.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's that's really interesting, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's consistent across industries, Like I wonder

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Speaker 1: if some industries, in some industries or professions, women are

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Speaker 1: held in higher esteem more regard than men.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, I mean, i'd like to think,

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Speaker 4: so I'm in a female dominated industry, and I know

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of female dominated industries like nursing and

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Speaker 4: teaching and allied health for occupational therapy spee pathology flips

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Speaker 4: around with physiotherapy. But interestingly, even in the female dominated industries,

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Speaker 4: it is always the case that it's male dominated when

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Speaker 4: it comes to the upper echelons within that industry, so

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Speaker 4: they're more executive level. Suddenly flips around again, even though

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Speaker 4: it's female dominated, and all of a sudden, it's male

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Speaker 4: dominated in the executive and senior roles. So, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'd like to say, maybe it's different, but it hasn't

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Speaker 4: necessarily been my experience that you know, I hope that

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Speaker 4: my daughter would grow up in a world where her

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Speaker 4: gender didn't matter and that her expertise was taken to

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Speaker 4: be the most important, most important part of her Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean that, you know, it is silly that I mean

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Speaker 2: that that's still yes, but you're right, it still happens.

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Speaker 2: It still hopefully it happens less. But does it still happen?

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Speaker 2: You know, gender bias and all the different biases of course,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you. I wanted to ask you today.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to talk a little bit. Today won't be

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Speaker 2: a long one because you're a little bit under the weather.

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Speaker 2: Oh by the way, by the way, did you this?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm meant to ask this on air?

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Speaker 2: Will will like, was the baby girl? Was she intended?

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Speaker 2: Or was this a happy?

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Speaker 4: Oh god, that's a great question. Don't feel to this out.

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Speaker 4: This is the best question. So she was a beautiful

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Speaker 4: a little bit of both. So we we actually because

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Speaker 4: I'm a little bit older and most this is we're

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Speaker 4: getting into gender stuff a lot this episode, Craig, But

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Speaker 4: most of my last ten years have been told I'll

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Speaker 4: be well, you should be careful, you better get onto it,

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Speaker 4: you better hurry up. You're not gonna be able to

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Speaker 4: get pregnant, Like heaps and heaps of pressure increasingly of

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Speaker 4: people saying, you know, like you need to think about

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Speaker 4: being able to get pregnant, and what are you going

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Speaker 4: to do if you can or you can't, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And freezing my eggs, like so much pressure to go

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Speaker 4: check my fertility and freeze my eggs and see if

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Speaker 4: my ovaries are working, et.

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Speaker 3: Cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And I've been pretty laid back and cool about the

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Speaker 4: whole thing until more recent years where it did get

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Speaker 4: to me and I started to get a little scared

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Speaker 4: of my fertility being good enough, and also the fear

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Speaker 4: that if something did happen and I couldn't fall pregnant,

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Speaker 4: that it would somehow be my faults because I didn't

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Speaker 4: I was selfish, and I didn't have children quickly enough

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Speaker 4: and now you can't have children like this, this idea

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Speaker 4: that it would have been my fault, and I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that's other women can relate to that, maybe they

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Speaker 4: can't relate to that, but that's just how I felt.

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Speaker 4: So my partner and I are in a good place

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Speaker 4: and we're really stable, really happy, just you know, the

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Speaker 4: best life, and we sort of thought, well, if we

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Speaker 4: have children that and we're really excited for that.

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Speaker 3: So we weren't not trying. I think that's the phrase

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Speaker 3: we use. We weren't not trying. And the first time

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Speaker 3: we were not trying, weren't not trying was when we.

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Speaker 4: Fell pregnant straight away, so there was there was no

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Speaker 4: issues at all. We shout out to any women out

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Speaker 4: there who were worried about their fertility. You know, it

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Speaker 4: was all okay and everything went okay, and it's been

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Speaker 4: a really smooth booth sailing. So it's something I don't

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Speaker 4: hear a lot about with women and pregnancy. It's often

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Speaker 4: a lot of fear hungering. So I think it's a

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Speaker 4: nice good news story to hear about a woman who

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Speaker 4: waited a little bit longer and she was okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's as much as I can understand it,

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Speaker 2: I understand it. And yeah, a lot of friends who

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Speaker 2: have been in a similar boat. I've got a question

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Speaker 2: for you, like when when you find out you're pregnant

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Speaker 2: and you're becoming This is not the episode we plan

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Speaker 2: to do, by the way, everyone, but fuck it, here

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Speaker 2: we are. Do you think like when you when you

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Speaker 2: when you get pregnant for the first time, as you

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Speaker 2: kind of said, like a whole new world opens up.

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Speaker 2: Now you're thinking about things that you've never had to

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Speaker 2: think about, you know, like, oh my god, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of pressure choosing a name because what name that

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Speaker 2: could create positive or negative outcomes that could influence people

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Speaker 2: to treat her a certain way, or maybe you know,

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Speaker 2: like I've never really thought about the impact that a

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Speaker 2: name would have in that sense, But it totally makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But when you broaden that back and you think about

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Speaker 2: you being a mum, do you think about what are

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Speaker 2: some of the things that this is a This is

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Speaker 2: a tough question, right, this is a vulnerable question.

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Speaker 1: But what are some of the things about you that

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Speaker 1: you don't want your daughter to have?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: My skin like traits, habits thinking like with me, if

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Speaker 2: I had a boy, there'd be so many things that

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Speaker 2: I do that I would not want him to do

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Speaker 2: or be Like, is there anything where you think, fuck,

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Speaker 2: I hope she doesn't turn out like me in this.

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Speaker 4: Regard, Yes, Craig crippling anxiety. Really hope doesn't inherit that

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Speaker 4: I have, like terrible anxiety. And it's you know, there's

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Speaker 4: all that old cliche like, oh, you became a psychologist

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Speaker 4: because you have your own problems. Maybe maybe that's true,

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Speaker 4: But I grew up with like terrible, terrible anxiety. And

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Speaker 4: my parents had a we had five kids in the family,

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Speaker 4: and like they were not the not.

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Speaker 3: The wealthiest of people. In fact, they're pretty poor people.

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Speaker 4: A lot of my life and my dad was you know,

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Speaker 4: went through a lot of trauma growing up himself, so

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Speaker 4: he you know, he had there was a lot of

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Speaker 4: intergenerational kind of stuff that affected us. And I grew

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Speaker 4: up with like really really quite significant anxiety around you know,

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Speaker 4: just trying to.

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Speaker 3: Be good enough and people please.

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Speaker 4: And it took me, you know, really like a good

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Speaker 4: ten years over the last ten years to try to

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Speaker 4: get to the bottom of why do I keep putting

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Speaker 4: myself out? Why do I keep going to the fawn response?

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Speaker 4: You know, we talked a lot about that in our

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Speaker 4: little Your Brain in a Nutshell series like Freeze for Flight,

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Speaker 4: Freeze and fawn response. And I'm definitely a Freeze and

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Speaker 4: a fawn person, Like I just won't defend myself or

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Speaker 4: I will appease others and give and give and give

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Speaker 4: until the point of total exhaustion and burnout, and all

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Speaker 4: while sitting at home kind of shaking in my boots

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Speaker 4: because I'm so.

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Speaker 3: Terribly anxious about it all.

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Speaker 4: So that's taken a long time to kind of work on,

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Speaker 4: and I constantly have to work when I was anxious.

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Speaker 4: Just today, like I see a psychologist myself just for

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Speaker 4: like maintenance of mental health. You know, I've been seeing

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Speaker 4: a psychologist for years, and I think I'm going to

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Speaker 4: practice what you preach. I'm a psychologist and I see

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Speaker 4: a psychologist, so you know, I'm on top of it.

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Speaker 4: Compared to what I was when I was, you know,

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Speaker 4: in my early twenties. I don't have panic attacks or

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Speaker 4: you know, as bad episode of anxiety, doesn't control me

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Speaker 4: like it used to. But you know, that's something I think.

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Speaker 4: I think that comes down to how you raise a child.

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Speaker 4: And I want to make sure you know I'm going

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Speaker 4: to raise her in a way where she knows her

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Speaker 4: worth and she knows that it's okay to say no,

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Speaker 4: and it's okay to put herself first, and that that's

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Speaker 4: not selfish, it's actually good practice so that you have

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Speaker 4: enough in the tank to do other things in life.

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Speaker 4: But definitely I don't. Yeah, that's the thing I don't

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Speaker 4: want her to inherit about my personality, I guess, And

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Speaker 4: I don't want that to impact her in my parenting.

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Speaker 4: What about you tell me want something? Would you like

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Speaker 4: to have children? Are you going to have children? Can

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Speaker 4: I ask that?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Fuck?

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Speaker 2: Imagine really no another verse. Look if I was younger, maybe,

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Speaker 2: but and and we've I haven't really spoken about this

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Speaker 2: on the show. But I I've been told one thousand

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Speaker 2: times you'd be a good dad.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I would, though, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I would.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, it doesn't it doesn't matter that that horses

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Speaker 2: that gate has closed. But in a hypothetical, in a

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Speaker 2: parallel universe, I would, Yeah, I would want my kid

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Speaker 2: to have better self esteem than I had, and two

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Speaker 2: to have more confidence. I mean my mom and dad.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's hard because one of the things that

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Speaker 2: we do is, you know, we expect our parents to

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Speaker 2: be a certain way, and it's usually like I think,

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Speaker 2: or you should be more like me dad, almost right.

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Speaker 2: But the funny thing is my mum and dad. And

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Speaker 2: I don't want to bore my listeners who've heard this

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Speaker 2: too much, but my mum and dad grew up in

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Speaker 2: the Second World War. They were both born in nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty nine, so it's a long time ago. And you know,

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Speaker 2: they weren't raised in a Disney movie, you know, and

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Speaker 2: life was tough and mum was Mum's mum died giving

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Speaker 2: birth to her, so mum never had a mum, right,

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Speaker 2: So you know, back in the days when it wasn't

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Speaker 2: as safe now as it is now. My dad was

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Speaker 2: one of six boys and eight eight people in a family,

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Speaker 2: you know, six boys, depression, very little money, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so then I grew up in compared to them,

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Speaker 2: you know, luxury compared to them. So there wasn't but

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Speaker 2: with even though I had everything that I needed practically it,

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Speaker 2: you know, there was probably stuff that, through no real

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Speaker 2: fault of theirs, that I didn't get emotionally, I guess.

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Speaker 2: And but my mum and dad are really good parents,

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Speaker 2: and for what they knew and what they experienced and

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Speaker 2: what they had to work with, I think they did

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Speaker 2: a really good job. And so but for me, I

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Speaker 2: would like to, you know, be if I was a dad,

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Speaker 2: I guess invest a lot more emotionally than I got,

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Speaker 2: like an emotion you know, yeah, like things are good,

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Speaker 2: like a bike's good, school's good, bed's good, warm, dinner's good,

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Speaker 2: all things that we absolutely need. And they did it,

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Speaker 2: you know, a great job. But because my dad never

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Speaker 2: really received lots of affection or positive endorsement or you know,

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Speaker 2: reinforcement or you know, like he wasn't great at that

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Speaker 2: despite the fact that he loved me, and he would

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Speaker 2: show that he loved me in other ways.

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Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, I think a bit

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Speaker 1: of that, you know, but it's hard. It's like, I actually, wow,

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Speaker 1: now I'm opening the door.

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Speaker 2: But I like, I had a revelation one day, and

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Speaker 2: it was it was on a day I was talking

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Speaker 2: to one of my uncles and I realized when I

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Speaker 2: was talking to one of my uncles, my dad's brother,

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Speaker 2: I realized that I hadn't really considered my dad as

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Speaker 2: a child as a boy. And then I tried to

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Speaker 2: put myself in my dad's childhood because my childhood was

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Speaker 2: a fucking dream compared to his. And then I went, ah,

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Speaker 2: considering what he grew up in, which wasn't horrible, but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't far from horrible.

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Speaker 1: Right then he turned out great.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: But when I look through the Craig window, I can

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Speaker 2: be very critical and very judgmental and all of that.

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Speaker 2: But when I get off my high horse and I

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Speaker 2: start to you know, there's a you know, there's an

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Speaker 2: idea in psychology that you're probably well aware of called

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Speaker 2: false consensus effect, A false consensus effect basically, Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: what it means is we think that other people think

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Speaker 2: like us.

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Speaker 1: Ah, Yes, so I think.

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Speaker 2: RON should think like me, and I expect him to

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Speaker 2: because I'm right, and how can he not think like me?

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Speaker 2: And so you know, and that for me, lucky, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing a PhD in self awareness, essentially self awareness.

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Speaker 1: That for me was a real.

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Speaker 2: Expansion of my reality in my mind and an expansion

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Speaker 2: of my awareness and humility because I realized I was

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Speaker 2: actually the problem, not my dad. I was expecting my

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Speaker 2: dad to be the way that I wanted, rather than

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Speaker 2: just expecting my dad to be my dad how he is.

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Speaker 2: You know, so like I think that's one of the

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Speaker 2: ever present challenges. Sorry I'm talking too much today, this

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Speaker 2: is your show, but I really think that, you know,

359
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Speaker 2: theory of mind, trying to understand and not agree with,

360
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Speaker 2: not endorse, but just understand other people's mind and their thoughts.

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Speaker 2: It's such a fucking interpersonal superpower.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's funny because I you know, I do

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Speaker 4: a lot of work with autism. I do a lot

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Speaker 4: of work with your adversity. And you know, you're so

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00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 4: true like theory of mind that that word. Hopefully you

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Speaker 4: guys have heard that before. I'm sure you would have

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Speaker 4: talked about it before. But your ability to have empathy,

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Speaker 4: your ability to put yourself in other people's shoes, your

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Speaker 4: ability to not be ego centric anymore it's all that

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Speaker 4: are being all about me. It becomes I understand there

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Speaker 4: are other people, and there's that shift that happens around

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Speaker 4: five or six, you know, in the developmental stages when

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Speaker 4: you can you can recognize that you're not the only

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Speaker 4: person on the planet, and that mommy and Daddy have

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Speaker 4: feelings and other people have feelings as well, and you're right, Like,

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Speaker 4: it seems like such a spectrum of like why do

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Speaker 4: some people get almost like this hyper aware you know,

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Speaker 4: theory of mind where they're too aware other people, they're

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Speaker 4: hyper sensitive to other people and to a crippling degree

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Speaker 4: where they're people pleases and they can't stop Versus the

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Speaker 4: other end of the spectrum, where people are almost like

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Speaker 4: you know, you could say, I've met some narcissistic people

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Speaker 4: in my time. I've met some people who have clear

384
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Speaker 4: personality disorder issues, but I've also met people who, you know,

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Speaker 4: they're almost like on a genetic level, they are predisposed

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Speaker 4: to lack the theory of mine because of a you know,

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00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 4: an autism for example. And it's like, where do you

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Speaker 4: fall on that spectrum and sometimes it comes down to all,

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Speaker 4: how were you raised and what were you taught was

390
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Speaker 4: normal not normal? And what was love? And did your

391
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 4: dad get cuddles when he was younger? Did he talk

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Speaker 4: about his emotions when he was younger?

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Speaker 3: Son?

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Speaker 4: And so many men from the generation above you and

395
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Speaker 4: even your generation too, Craig would not talk about feelings.

396
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Speaker 4: That is not acceptable to talk about feelings, like imagine

397
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Speaker 4: telling your dad to go and see a psychologist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know what's interesting about my audience is that it's

400
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Speaker 2: seventy percent women. And it's not like, yeah, it's it's

401
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: and when I run workshops, like public workshops, it's even more.

402
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Speaker 2: It's sometimes it's like I did a last time I

403
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Speaker 2: did a workshop at Deacon University in Melbourne. We had

404
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Speaker 2: six hundred and seventy people, and I would say, I

405
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Speaker 2: would say there were six hundred and twenty women.

406
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Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, yeah in the rooms. Yeah yeah.

407
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,959
Speaker 2: And not because I mean, which is interesting, because it's

408
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Speaker 2: not like, you know, I'm talking about in inverted commas,

409
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Speaker 2: women's issues, or I'm Brad Pitt or I'm I think

410
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Speaker 2: it's just the fact that I love talking about the

411
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Speaker 2: human experience and I love opening all the doors and

412
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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be vulnerable and talk about my numerous

413
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Speaker 2: flaws and you know, and I and for whatever reason,

414
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Speaker 2: I'm comfortable in that. In fact, I kind of almost

415
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: thrive in that because it's just like to me, because

416
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: that's just real. And some guys, uh are like, I'm

417
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: getting more and more men, which is great talking about

418
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 2: feelings and talking about shame and talking about you know,

419
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Speaker 2: acknowledging shit that is just part of who we are,

420
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 2: rather than going not not not don't want to talk

421
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: about it, but yeah, it's it's a really interesting that

422
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 2: whole idea of trying to understand someone else's version of

423
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 2: right now without judging it, without saying, oh it's your

424
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 2: right or you're wrong or you know, but just that

425
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: not so much putting a value on it, but just having,

426
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 2: you know, that whole idea of seek first to understand

427
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Speaker 2: and then to be understood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

429
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder why it is that? I mean, do

430
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 4: you have any theories about when I could? I can postulate,

431
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 4: but do you, as a man, have any theories about

432
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 4: why is it? Because I see this time and time

433
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 4: and time again with mental health and women in abundance

434
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 4: who are seeking assistance, guidance, improvement, you know, journey to

435
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 4: greater self awareness and greater mental health. And there's this

436
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 4: almost like as actually as you describe this huge seventy

437
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 4: percent split with the uptake of men doing the equivalent, Like,

438
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 4: why is it that they struggle to engage with mental

439
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 4: health even though this clear recognition that men's mental health

440
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: is almost more severely affected than women's with suicide rates

441
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 4: and things like that, Why are men not engaging?

442
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: Whye, Well, there's an overarching reason that we can then

443
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 2: break down, and the overarching reason is fear, right, Like,

444
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 2: they don't because they're scared, and you go, scared of what,

445
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: Scared of looking weak, scared scared of being embarrassed, scared

446
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: of not belonging to the tribe, the bloke tribe. Yeah,

447
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: you know, like I can't say who, but I do

448
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: work with a few groups and in some groups that

449
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be too hard to figure out what I'm

450
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: talking about. You do not want to put your hand

451
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: up for mental health. And you know what I'm saying,

452
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: there are some groups that you because if you admit

453
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: that you have mental health issues in some groups, that's

454
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 2: actually going to hurt your career. So while some organizations

455
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: are outwardly going, oh, we're all about the mental health

456
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: of our the practical reality behind the curtain is that

457
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: if you actually do say I need help, I've got

458
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: mental health issues in some places, that's going to put

459
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: the brakes on your advancement of your career.

460
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: Right.

461
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: So, I think the overarching answer is they're scared of stuff.

462
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: And the stuff is I don't want my career to

463
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 2: come to a grinding halt. I don't want people to

464
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: think I'm weak. I don't want to be embarrassed. I

465
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: don't want to be ejected from my grid.

466
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the irony is.

467
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: It's actually like if you do get ejected from that group,

468
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: will fuck that group? Like that's not the group you

469
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: want to be in. I like, I love hugging men.

470
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: I love sitting with a man who's crying. I love

471
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: vulnerability because it's fucking true, it's all there anyway. All

472
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: we're doing is, all we're doing is opening the door.

473
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: Like all of the guys who never cry, who never

474
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: talk about their feelings, who never and I'm not being

475
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: critical of them, but it's not that they don't have emotions.

476
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: It's just that they won't open that door because there's

477
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 2: a social penalty for that.

478
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, perceive social penalty, yes, But I also wonder, like

479
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 4: how many women who'd be listening, who wouldn't love, you know,

480
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 4: absolutely jump with the chance for their partner or their

481
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 4: brother or their best mate or whatever whoever it was,

482
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 4: to share something deeper with them and to explore something deep.

483
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 4: And I often have male friends who, funnily enough, it's

484
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 4: interesting you mentioned like in certain spheres of their life,

485
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 4: men not being able to share how they're going emotionally

486
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 4: or say anything about having an emotional struggle because God forbid,

487
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 4: you know, they're a doctor or a policeman or a

488
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 4: fireman or whatever, and they get fired as a result

489
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: of it.

490
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: But in higacy and behind closed doors.

491
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: In terms of what they then do with themselves, Like

492
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: my mental health journey, just my own perspective has all

493
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 4: been personal, Like I go and see a psychologist private aside,

494
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 4: not to do with work. That's my own self journey

495
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 4: into becoming a better version of Hannah. But what are

496
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 4: the men do in their private life like to then

497
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 4: improve how they're going? And is infiltrating the private life

498
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: as well? Like can men talk to other men or

499
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 4: other women in the at least in their private life,

500
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 4: or are they just bottling it up everywhere?

501
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 3: I don't know. Tell me, Craig, you're around.

502
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: Well, the answer is yes, they can, but maybe even

503
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: the better question is do they? And the answer is

504
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: sometimes some men sometimes. Look it is it is getting better,

505
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: but it is slower than I would like it to be.

506
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: But you know, it's like this, This is a very

507
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: personal story. But my training partner Mark, lovingly known as

508
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: the Crab. I don't know if you know this story,

509
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: but four and a half years ago we were training

510
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: at the gym and he he had a cardiac arrest.

511
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: Oh god, you're dead, absolutely dead for seventeen minutes, right,

512
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: And so I worked on him and all of that,

513
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: and fortunately he came back seventeen minutes later. But it's

514
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: funny when you have this experience and he's an alpha male,

515
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: he's an ex pro body, he's fucking massive. He's you know, like,

516
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: if you're ever going to get stuck on an island,

517
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: get stuck with him. He'll build you a city by Tuesday.

518
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: Right. I'm about as handy as an ashtray on a motorbike.

519
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: I'm fucking shit, right, he's a many man man, right,

520
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 2: but we had this. It doesn't get much more intimate

521
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: than you giving one of your best friend's mouth to

522
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 2: mouth CPR and keeping him alive until the ambos come.

523
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 4: Right.

524
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: Well, that just opened the door and hopefully people don't

525
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: have to go that through that for the door to open.

526
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: But for me, well one where you know, we're still

527
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: you know, we just talk shit and hang out. We're

528
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: mates and we train every day. But it was interesting

529
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: for me because in that moment where I'm on the gym,

530
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: he's on his back dead. When he fell, he bit

531
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: through his tongue, so there's blood coming out of his mouth.

532
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: I won't give you too much more of a description,

533
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: but I could, and it's not pretty. But in that

534
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: moment where I'm trying to save my friend's life and

535
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: my mouth's on his mouth and there's blood everywhere, and

536
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: it's fucking you know, there's nothing in me going, oh

537
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: what does this look like?

538
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god?

539
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: You know, there's none of that bullshit present, all of that,

540
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: all of that, you know.

541
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: Oh this is not cool on my ego? Oh fuck,

542
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: what would people think if they saw that? Like it

543
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: all vanishes. It's all fucking rubbish, right, And I don't know.

544
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: And I've had a few things, like a few like

545
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: some of my best friends have died, you know. I

546
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: had a really good friend of mine die about four

547
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: months ago, you know, and you know, left behind two

548
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: young children. And it's like when you go through and

549
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: I'm on no level of victim. I'm blessed. My life

550
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: is amazing. There's no self pity here. But when you

551
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: go through that with other people, for me anyway, I'm like,

552
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: I don't have time for me. I do not person

553
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: I have time for all the bullshit, Like if I

554
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: love you, you'll know if you might like. My best

555
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: mate in the world is Vin. We talk on the phone.

556
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: Every time we talk, we tell each other we love

557
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: each other every time. And he's a man's man, he's

558
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: an electrician. He's a blokey bloke. Every time I tell

559
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: him I love him, every time I hug him because

560
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what the future holds, and I don't

561
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: want to go fuck.

562
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: I wish I had oh if only I had.

563
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: A It's just I don't want to let my bullshit

564
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: get in the way. And I think us men, and

565
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: I'm generalizing, not all men, But some men sometimes let

566
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: their bullshit get in the way when they actually love deeply,

567
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: they love their mates, you know, And I just think,

568
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: and they love their family and they let you know,

569
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: and I just think that we don't need to be walking.

570
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: Around every eight minutes telling everyone that.

571
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: But I just think it's you know, it's slowly shifting,

572
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: but it'd be good if there was a little bit.

573
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: Of a hurry on.

574
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: And it's ironic.

575
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: Actually, the irony is like it's painful at times and

576
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 4: laughable at other times, but the irony of the ultimate

577
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 4: you know that from what I can guess, and I'm

578
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: not a man, so I am just guessing. But like this,

579
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 4: this hierarchy, this pyramid, this elite at the top, what

580
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: you're aiming for of being the perfect guy, the perfect man,

581
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: you know, and the perfect man's loyal, and the perfect

582
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: man is honorable, and the perfect man has integrity, and

583
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 4: he's there for you, and he's never down, he's never upset.

584
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 4: He does everything because he's the perfect man. And the

585
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 4: irony of that model is to actually be that guy

586
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 4: who is there for people, loyal, has integrity, who's not bothered,

587
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 4: who for the most part has good You know, stable

588
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: mental health and healthy relationships with other people is not

589
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 4: through that pathway. It's actually through the pathway that often

590
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 4: gets pushed away, which is acknowledging feelings, talking about feelings,

591
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: feeling validated that you've got those feel and normalized for

592
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: having those very human emotions, and then processing them so

593
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: that you can then be a great friend and a

594
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: great partner, and a great lover and a great brother

595
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: and whatever else you.

596
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: Want to be.

597
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 4: But it's so ironic to me that the way we're

598
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 4: walking towards that ultimate goal is actually probably the one

599
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: thing that's pushing you further away from that goal.

600
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know, here's the thing, right,

601
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: is that compassion and humility and vulnerability can coexist with

602
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck being a man means.

603
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: You know.

604
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: It's like, if I'm out and about and someone threatens

605
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: a friend of mine, I'm like, I will do what

606
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: I need to do to protect my friend. Do you

607
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: know what I mean? I don't want to be in

608
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: a fight. I don't want to confront it. But at

609
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: the same time, being vulnerable and compassionate doesn't mean you're weak,

610
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you're letting people dominate you. You know,

611
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: there's still a time, there's a you know, there's a

612
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: time for you know, control aggression. Hopefully not often, but

613
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: if somebody you know, I went into the city, it

614
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: was probably ten years ago now, and this just random

615
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: guy grabbed my stretch, stepped in front of us and

616
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: grabs my mum on the arm. Like my mom at

617
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: the time was seventy four, right. Oh, needless to say,

618
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: he wished he hadn't done that, and he was just

619
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: some stranger that he wanted, you know, and I didn't.

620
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: I'm just like, that's not okay, that's not you know.

621
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: I'm like and I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

622
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: And you know, but so but without being the alpha male,

623
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: there's there's a time to go, hey, that that behavior

624
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: is unacceptable.

625
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: I need to protect someone.

626
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: I hope that I never get in an altercation ever

627
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: again in my life. I don't want to do that.

628
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: But at the same time, we can't just grab my mother.

629
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: There's a consequence for that. That's not okay, you know.

630
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, do I want

631
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: to hurt anyone? Of course not do.

632
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: I understand that that guy's probably got mental health issues,

633
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: of course, so you know, but at the same time

634
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: we you know, there's this there's this duality of still

635
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: being able to be a strong male or female, strong

636
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 2: when required, mildly terrifying. My mum's fucking terrifying at times.

637
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: For a woman that's about three foot tall, she's terrifying,

638
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: you know. But also that can coexist with kindness and

639
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: compassion and empathy and awareness. You know, it doesn't have

640
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: to be one or the other.

641
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 4: That's so interesting actually, just as a reflection, and hopefully

642
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 4: you don't mind me making this reflection, but it's so interesting,

643
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 4: you know, when we tapped into the part of the

644
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: conversation where we really talked about vulnerability and you know,

645
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 4: this being the perfect guy, the perfect man, and then

646
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: vulnerability and then the memory that came up for you,

647
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 4: because so for me, I was talking in my sphere

648
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 4: and my mind, my conceptualization as a woman. I was

649
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 4: thinking about mental health and talking about feelings and therapy,

650
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 4: and it didn't even cross my mind, not for a second,

651
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: did the need for sometimes being assertive and aggressive and

652
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 4: protecting your loved ones. That didn't even come into my

653
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: head at all, not even to my conceptualization at all.

654
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 4: That occurred to me and but for you that when

655
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 4: we tapped into vulnerability, a memory that came up for

656
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 4: you was protecting your mother from an assault. And I

657
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: just feel like I need to report and reflect on

658
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 4: that that those two comments about being vulnerable was then

659
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 4: so intrinsically tired with a memory of the time you

660
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 4: had to defend your mum.

661
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

662
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean like hit the practical reality two right,

663
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: Like life's not a theory, Life's not a podcast with

664
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: Hannah and Craig, Like life's a messy shitfest. And you know,

665
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: I'll give you another story. One day, about three years ago,

666
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 2: I live on a main street and I heard this

667
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: this child screaming and crying. I'm like, oh my god.

668
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 2: And I went outside and all I saw was a man,

669
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 2: my size man hitting a child.

670
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 3: Oh gosh wow.

671
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: I went fucking nuts. And then he turned to me

672
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: and he goes, it's my it's my kid, right, And

673
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not going to stand there while you

674
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 1: the child was four or five.

675
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: I'm not going to just let you. I don't care

676
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: whose child it is. I'm not going to stand by

677
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: while you assault a child. I said, if you hit

678
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: if you hit him once more, I will fucking knock

679
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:01,959
Speaker 2: you out.

680
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: Wow what And he stopped. And I don't want to

681
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: do that.

682
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to sound anything, but there's something

683
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: in me that Look, there are times, unfortunately the practical

684
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: reality of the human experiences, sometimes you need to intervene.

685
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 2: Hopefully it's hardly ever. And of course I didn't hit him,

686
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: and of course I didn't want to hit him, but

687
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: if he had kept hurting that child, I would have

688
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: hurt him. Yeah, and you go, trust me when that's happening.

689
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: You want somebody with some controlled aggression. You want somebody

690
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: who will get in the way. There was a guy

691
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: called Sir Edmund Burke, and he said, all that's necessary

692
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: for evil to triumph is for good men slash women

693
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 2: to do nothing.

694
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 4: That's so, you know, that's actually brought a memory up

695
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 4: for me, that's brought which I'm going to share. It's

696
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: a bit of a vulnerable memory, but I remember seeing that.

697
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 4: I remember seeing you know. It was years ago and

698
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 4: I was standing in Newtown in Melbourne, in Sydney, and

699
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: I was waiting to go into an appointment. I was,

700
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 4: funnily enough, I was going to get some singing bowl.

701
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: Singing bowl sound therapy, which is amazing. We'll talk about

702
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 4: it another day. But I was waiting outside to go

703
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 4: into this like this kind of therapeutic, lovely spiritual session,

704
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 4: sitting on the street, and you know, you just people watch,

705
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 4: observe people like Sticky Beacon. And I was watching this

706
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 4: couple in a car right beside me, and they were

707
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 4: having a bit of a heated discussion, and then I

708
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 4: watched the partner, the man in the car, strike the

709
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 4: woman like he hit her.

710
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: He hit her in the face.

711
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 4: And then I stopped talking and looked down and then

712
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 4: you know, and then you know what he did? Can

713
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 4: you be emotional talking about it? He looked up at

714
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 4: me and he made eye contact and he saw that

715
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: I had seen it, and he smiled.

716
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: He's smart.

717
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 4: He smiled because he knew because I stood there and

718
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, I can't believe what

719
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 4: he's just done. And so many thoughts popped in my head,

720
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 4: like go to the car, open the door, pull her out,

721
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: like call the police, like what do you do? And

722
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 4: he just like, he just smiled at me because he knew.

723
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 4: There's nothing you can do, sweetheart. Yea, he was so right,

724
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 4: because he's this big, massive guy on this tiny little thing.

725
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 4: He's in a car about to drive off, and I'm

726
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 4: sitting there on the side of the road, like what

727
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 4: am I going to do? How do I protect this woman?

728
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 4: And in my mind I was like, get out of

729
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 4: the car, get out of the car. And she stayed

730
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 4: in the car and I stood there like just kind

731
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 4: of paralyzed and frozen for another good five minutes after

732
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 4: they drove off, going what should I do? Should I

733
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 4: call someone? Will they believe me? If I call the police?

734
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 4: Will they listen?

735
00:39:59,320 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: You know?

736
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: And it was a horrible it was a horrible situation

737
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 4: where I'm really ashamed to say I did nothing.

738
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 3: I didn't do anything because I didn't, you know what

739
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: I mean.

740
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 4: It was it was at and at the time I

741
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, if I was a strong man, maybe

742
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 4: I would have chosen a different path there. And I

743
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 4: still I still it was years ago. I still think

744
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 4: about that woman and wonder where is she now?

745
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: Mhmm.

746
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: You don't have to feel ashamed. I mean for you

747
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: to put your you would have then it depending on

748
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: I mean, probably that guy's a psychopath. Probably like if

749
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: he's belting a woman then smiling at you he's a psychopath. Yeah, yeah,

750
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: that's I mean, these are just that's you know, it's like,

751
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: that's what I said. Life's not a conversation with you mean,

752
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: it's not a theory, It's not I mean, how many

753
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: how many women have been on the end of that

754
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: kind of horrendous treatment And this is this is what

755
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You know, sometimes all that's necessary for evil

756
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: to triumph is for well, the original saying is for

757
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: good men to do nothing. And it's like, I fucking

758
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: you know when you tell me that story, that makes

759
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: me mad, not mad that you didn't do anything, but

760
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: just like and I hate it. I hate it that

761
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: some evil, fucking pricks do that. And and but there

762
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,919
Speaker 2: is a that's why, you know, It's like I hate war, right,

763
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 2: but we need an army, we need a defense force.

764
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: Like what like literally, what do they do?

765
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: Will they?

766
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: You know, depending on the context, sometimes we send people

767
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: overseas to kill people. I mean like it's it's like

768
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: in a perfect world that we don't have but if

769
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: we did perfect world, there'd be none of that. But

770
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: that ain't where we live. And while we don't want

771
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: to be negative, we do want to be practical. And

772
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: that the truth is like, especially right now in Melbourne

773
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: and nearly every night on the news, there are stories

774
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: of home invasions where people are you know, people older

775
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: people are being robbed, bashed, threatened, periodically killed. You know

776
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 2: that recently in Sydney, that horrible event in the shopping center.

777
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, like, let's hope that that doesn't

778
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: happen again, but we all know that that is a

779
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: version of that is going to happen again. Not necessarily

780
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 2: that same as that or similar, but like, this is it.

781
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: We want to be positive, we want to be loving,

782
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 2: we want to be empathetic, but we also need to

783
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: be fucking prepared and we also need to be practical

784
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: and realistic, you know. And I say this stuff to

785
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: people all of the time. You know, it's like, don't assume,

786
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: don't assume it's going to be okay. Don't also assume

787
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: it's going to be not okay. But you know, yeah,

788
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: it's I don't know how we got to this place, but.

789
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 4: No, I think it's like I'm having a daughter myself,

790
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 4: and I think about these things now where I go

791
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: give me I'm that's saying like punching up like and

792
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 4: they say it with jokes and humor, like don't punch,

793
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 4: don't punch down, you know, but it's okay for you

794
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 4: punch across or punch up, like I think I see

795
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 4: that with like mental health and awareness like you. You know,

796
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 4: women can't be expected to educate men like we can't.

797
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 3: We can't.

798
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 4: It's like the dangers for us to for me to

799
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 4: say that's not okay, that's not okay for you to

800
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 4: do that, the risk of me very real risk of

801
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 4: me being physically assaulted as a result of trying to intervene.

802
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 4: But then, you know, men teaching other men. You know,

803
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: don't speak to her like that, don't don't make jokes

804
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 4: about her like that, don't treat her like that, don't

805
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 4: talk about her like that, or you know, make it's

806
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 4: okay to talk about your feelings.

807
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: It's okay to talk about you.

808
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 4: Know, don't call him that, don't call him a pansy

809
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 4: for talking about it, like men teaching other men, because

810
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: you are physically stronger, and you are you do have that,

811
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 4: you know, physical ability to kind of be on the

812
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 4: same level as a fellow, as a mate and say

813
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: to him when something's not okay and when something is

814
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 4: okay with not no fear, because there's definitely always going

815
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 4: to be fear, but certainly less fear than perhaps a

816
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 4: woman would or a child would standing up to a

817
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 4: male to say that wasn't okay. I think that's why

818
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 4: you know, you're saying of what you were talking about

819
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 4: with the saying of when good men stand and do nothing,

820
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: that to me, I see, Yeah, good men need to

821
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 4: stand up to other men to help educate them about

822
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 4: better mental health and better treatment of everyone. And that

823
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 4: to me is where I can see the future. When

824
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: men teach other men, that's when things will start to

825
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 4: change because I think they'll listen.

826
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well hopefully who knows, Hopefully one person will hear

827
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: this that needed to hear it, and maybe there'll be

828
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: a you know. I also I also want to say

829
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: that not all men are bad men, of course not.

830
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: There are a lot of great men. I don't put

831
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: myself in the great men category. But you know, not

832
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: every not every man is a bad man. Not every

833
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: man is doing bad things, not every man is violent.

834
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: Not every man, you know.

835
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 4: So.

836
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: We need to acknowledge what's going on. But we don't

837
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: want to throw all men under the bus.

838
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 4: Because I feel bad to those good men as well,

839
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 4: because I do wonder if it's a little bit like,

840
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 4: you know, eighty percent of the work is being done

841
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: by twenty percent of the of the army sort of

842
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 4: you know, like too much for the individuals like yourself

843
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 4: to be working you know, on like mental health and

844
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 4: supporting men.

845
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: And it's you know, one voice among millions.

846
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 4: Of other men.

847
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,479
Speaker 3: Like it's it's hard. It's so hard.

848
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 4: It's that collective effort that's needed so that not one

849
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 4: person has to constantly be the one voice that stands up.

850
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 4: It's so much voices.

851
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: I think also, you know, like I feel like I

852
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: have a bit of a responsibility sometimes because I have

853
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: a platform and I'm a bloke to go, hey, blokes,

854
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: let's let's talk about our stuff. Let's be honest and

855
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: raw and all of those things. But also at times

856
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: sometimes I've said to lots of men over the years,

857
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 2: you know, that's not okay, Like that thing that you're

858
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: doing not okay, not okay, it's not okay. And also

859
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, even for myself, not in not in terms

860
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: of like you know, hurting people, but you know, just

861
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 2: like one of the challenges I think if we're really

862
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: serious about not only helping others, but really helping ourselves. Right,

863
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: I have to acknowledge that I fuck up. I have

864
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that I've got an ego. I have to

865
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: acknowledge that I make bad decisions, and I need to

866
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: work on me because I'm definitely not the high watermark

867
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 2: for fucking human behavior. And so it's it's I think

868
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: we can all be works in progress as well as

869
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: helping others. Like if I wait until I've got all

870
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: my shit together before I ever do a podcast or

871
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: ever help anyone, or same with you, before you ever

872
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: treat anyone or work with any patients. If you wait

873
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: till you've got all your shit together, you're never going

874
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: to see anyone, you know, because we're all simultaneously students

875
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: and teachers.

876
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know.

877
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully we've helped somebody a little bit today. And

878
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: this actually turned out to be a very important conversation.

879
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: And so thank you for Thank you for being vulnerable

880
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: and real and honest, and I love that. I think

881
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: there's some synergy between our perspectives and you helped me

882
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: understand stuff better. And maybe my own site has been

883
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: helpful as well. I'm not sure, but yeah, it's a

884
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: really important conversation. I'm glad we had it, me.

885
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 4: Too, and I'll quickly say for anyone if it's brought

886
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 4: up anything for you guys, to definitely get in touch

887
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 4: with Lifeline. On thirteen eleven fourteen, you can reach out

888
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 4: to Headspace. We'll be on blue. There are lots of

889
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: amazing resources for people with you know, who are going

890
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 4: through any kind of mental health difficulties. So we're like

891
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 4: on Craigstrom Steak on your behalf that we really highly

892
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: encourage you to reach out and seek some support. If

893
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 4: any of this has brought anything up for you today.

894
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: Yeah definitely.

895
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 2: Well say goodbye a fair but as always to you

896
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: and little Craiggina.

897
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: Get Craig Gina. Look I'm okay with either a little

898
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: halfer a little halfer.

899
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 4: Thanks Uncle Craig, and thanks for being chat. Thanks guys

900
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 4: for listening.