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Speaker 1: From the newsroom.

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Speaker 2: A news still come today. Gooday there, I'm Andrew Bucklow. Well,

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Speaker 2: it was a pretty big day in Aussie politics. Yesterday

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Speaker 2: the leader of the Nationals, David little Proud, dropped a

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Speaker 2: bombshell announcing that his party was ripping up the coalition

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Speaker 2: agreement with the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 3: It's with great disappointment that I announced that we're not

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Speaker 3: going to form part of that coalition. Will be pragmatic

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Speaker 3: and we'll work constructively with Susan and her team to

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Speaker 3: make sure that we bring down the Albanezi government after

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Speaker 3: next selection.

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Speaker 2: As you can imagine, that decision has big ramifications. You

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Speaker 2: can read all about them at us dot com at

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Speaker 2: dot AU. We've also got a story online for you

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Speaker 2: today about something terrifying that is taking place in the

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Speaker 2: US right now. Judges around the country are having pizzas

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Speaker 2: that they didn't order delivered to their homes and to

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Speaker 2: the homes of their family members. Now, I know this

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Speaker 2: sounds like a fairly harmless prank, but I assure you

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Speaker 2: it is not. It's actually a thinly veiled death threat.

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Speaker 2: We'll explain it for you in in this episode. Were

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Speaker 2: joining me now is freelance writer and US dot com

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Speaker 2: dot you contributed Jamie seed or gooday, Jamie goodyere youre going, yeah,

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Speaker 2: very well. Thanks. You've written a pretty fascinating piece for

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Speaker 2: news dot com dot are you about the sinister reason

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Speaker 2: that some judges in America are being delivered free pizzas?

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Speaker 2: Now we can actually trace this story back to twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Tell everyone what happened back then?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, look, it's an interesting and depressing development in

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Speaker 4: the culture wars that are pretty much going out of

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Speaker 4: control over there in the United States at the moment.

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Speaker 4: Back in twenty twenty, a federal court judge by the

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Speaker 4: name of Judge s O. Sallas upset a lawyer when

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Speaker 4: she dismissed his case, and this upset lawyer then decided

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Speaker 4: to disguise himself as a pizza deliveryman, found out her address,

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Speaker 4: drove to her home, knocked on the door. Door was

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Speaker 4: answered by her son, twenty year old son, whom he

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Speaker 4: shot dead. He then shot her husband, but then, not

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Speaker 4: being able to find the judge in the house, he

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Speaker 4: shot himself dead. So this is just a standalone tragedy

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Speaker 4: which could happen anywhere in the world, but it's since

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Speaker 4: become something of a political statement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was big news at the time. Back in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, a deadly.

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Speaker 5: Ambush at the home of a prominent federal judge. Authorities

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Speaker 5: say the judge's husband answered the front door of their

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Speaker 5: home here in North Brunswick, New Jersey, about five o'clock

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Speaker 5: last night. The assassin unleashed a hail of bullets, hitting

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Speaker 5: the husband in the stomach and killing their son. The

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Speaker 5: suspect who opened fire was identified in published reports as

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Speaker 5: roy Dan Hollander.

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Speaker 6: Then, today in Liberty, New York, one hundred miles north

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Speaker 6: of the crime scene, law enforcement source to say the

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Speaker 6: alleged shooter had been found dead in a car from

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Speaker 6: an apparent self inflicted gunshot.

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Speaker 2: So that was twenty twenty. Let's fast forward to now

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. The next part of this store is

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump. He comes back into power in January this year.

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Speaker 2: He signs a flurry of executive orders straight away. I

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Speaker 2: think he signed something like more than one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty executive orders since January. But he's had a bit

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Speaker 2: of legal trouble with some of them.

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Speaker 4: Is that right, Jamie, Well, yes, and no, it's not

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Speaker 4: something that anyone should consider to be unexpected. The United States,

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Speaker 4: being a democratic nation, has divisions of power. So you

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Speaker 4: have legislation, and law is created by the Legisative Council,

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Speaker 4: which is the Senate and the lower House. You have

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Speaker 4: those laws and regulations enforced by the judiciary, and then

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Speaker 4: you have the executive branch, the president, which interprets the

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Speaker 4: law and interprets the legislation and is responsible for actually

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Speaker 4: turning it into reality. So theoretically, you know, a president

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Speaker 4: can't just make up his own laws. With Donald Trump,

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Speaker 4: he is quite impatient to get his agenda up and rolling,

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Speaker 4: and he's been using these executive memos almost as though

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Speaker 4: they are some sort of royal proclamation that you must

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Speaker 4: do this because I say so, which isn't exactly how

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Speaker 4: the United States democratic system works. It does work to

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Speaker 4: one degree in that the United States president is given

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Speaker 4: a power to act in a state of emergency or

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Speaker 4: when the nation is under direct threat. And that's why

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Speaker 4: the president is calling everything an invasion, everything a threat

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Speaker 4: to national security to justify his executive orders.

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Speaker 2: And is it right that some judges have actually stepped

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Speaker 2: in and said, hang in a minute, Trump, you can't

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Speaker 2: actually make that executive order.

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Speaker 4: It's not the judges themselves are judge judges. So members

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Speaker 4: of the American community, whether it's government, whether it's private sector,

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Speaker 4: whether it's individuals, are naturally going to courts with their concerns.

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Speaker 4: It's what you do. That's why you have a judicial system,

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Speaker 4: the judges. Is there a case to be answered here?

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Speaker 4: And you know about sixty judges so far, it's only

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Speaker 4: been a little more than one hundred days, but sixty

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Speaker 4: different judges have looked at several hundred different cases relating

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Speaker 4: to a lot of these executive orders and have said, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're right, we're not really certain that Trump has the

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Speaker 4: power to enforce these proclamations. Therefore, we will take it

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Speaker 4: to trial.

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Speaker 2: Well, Trump's obviously not happy about those rulings, and lately

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Speaker 2: he's spoken out against judges have listened to these comments

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Speaker 2: from April.

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Speaker 7: We cannot allow a handful of communist, radical of judges

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Speaker 7: to obstruct the enforcement of our laws and assume the

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Speaker 7: duties that belong solely to the president of the United States.

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Speaker 7: Judges are trying to take away the power given to

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Speaker 7: the president to keep our country safe. And it's not

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Speaker 7: a good thing. But I hope for the sake of

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Speaker 7: our country that the Supreme Court is going to save

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Speaker 7: this because we have to do something. These people are

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Speaker 7: just looking to destroy our country. Nothing will stop me

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Speaker 7: in the mission to keep America safe again. It's very simple,

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Speaker 7: keep America safe again.

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Speaker 2: Pretty full on words there from Donald Trump, basically painting

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Speaker 2: some judges as enemies of the people. And this is

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Speaker 2: where the pizzas comes in, Jamie. So, given everything that

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Speaker 2: we've talked about, why are pizzas being delivered to some

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Speaker 2: judges in the US.

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Speaker 4: So Donald Trump has a very strong following, of course

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Speaker 4: of MARGA enthusiasts, MARGA being the make America Great Again movement,

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Speaker 4: and they are, like him, getting impatient. They are demanding

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Speaker 4: to see results. Some of these results are a little bit,

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Speaker 4: shall we say interesting. Another case involving pizzas, this time

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Speaker 4: back in twenty sixteen, during the US presidential campaign of

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump, for the first time, there were through a

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Speaker 4: non conspiracy claim saying that a pizza delivery joint in Washington,

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Speaker 4: d C. Was the hub of a Democrat secret satanic

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Speaker 4: pedophile cult. Underneath this pizza area was a dungeon where

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Speaker 4: children were being forced in Satanic rituals. A individual decided

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Speaker 4: to storm that pizzeria with a fifteen assault rifle to

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Speaker 4: rescue the children, stand up open fire, couldn't find any children,

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Speaker 4: couldn't find any basement, and was arrested.

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Speaker 8: Twenty eight year old Edgard Welch was talked out of

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Speaker 8: the restaurant by police and arrested yesterday afternoon. Please say

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Speaker 8: Welsh drove six hours from Salisbury, North Carolina to self

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Speaker 8: investigate a conspiracy known online. It's pizzagate. It's an utterly

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Speaker 8: false story about child abuse here of this restaurant. The

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Speaker 8: owner says he and his employees have been besieged by

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Speaker 8: death with since the fake news story spread on social

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Speaker 8: media before the election.

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Speaker 4: But apparently it's all be part of a cover up.

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Speaker 4: And so that's just one extreme example. But these Margus

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Speaker 4: supporters are wanting results. They're wanting the FBI, They're wanting

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Speaker 4: Trump's FBI, They're wanting Trump's CIA, they're wanting Trump's legal

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Speaker 4: service to arrest people such as these deep state conspiracy types.

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Speaker 4: And they're not getting those results as fast as they want.

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Speaker 4: And part of the reason is the legal process. So

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Speaker 4: in America, you have a situation where judges are appointed

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Speaker 4: by political parties, are not necessarily seen as independent, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of these judges, even the ones opposing Trump's

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Speaker 4: executive orders, are appointed by Republicans, and whether they're Republican

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Speaker 4: or not, they're now under a lot of pressure, phone calls,

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Speaker 4: bomb threats, you name it, to see to Trump's will.

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Speaker 4: And that's where the pizzas come in. They're starting to

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Speaker 4: send these pizzas to judges say we know where you live,

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Speaker 4: we know where your family lives. And by the way,

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Speaker 4: this pizza is being delivered in the name of Daniel Endel,

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Speaker 4: who is, of course Judge s SLIS's deceased son.

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Speaker 2: Pretty heavy stuff. Judge Sellas has actually spoken about this

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Speaker 2: recently on PBS News Hour. Let's have a listen to

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Speaker 2: what she had to say.

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Speaker 1: Pizzas have been delivered to judges, judge's children, and now

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Speaker 1: recently they're sending pizzas to judges their children and utilizing

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Speaker 1: my murdered son's name. They're weaponizing my child's name to

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Speaker 1: really impact fear on judges all throughout this country. You

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Speaker 1: send a pizza to a judge, it says we know

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Speaker 1: where you live. You send a pizza to a judge's child,

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Speaker 1: you're saying to that judge, we know where your child lives.

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Speaker 1: You send a pizza to a judge or that judge's

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Speaker 1: child in my murdered son name, and it says, do

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Speaker 1: you want to end up like Daniel Andrel? Do you

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Speaker 1: want to end up like judge Sallas? Those are acts

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Speaker 1: of intimidation. This is a concerted effort by a few

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Speaker 1: bad actors to attempt to intimidate the judges.

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Speaker 2: More on this story in just a moment, Welcome back.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chattington News dot com dot A. You contributed Jamie

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Speaker 2: Seedal Now Jamie. Just before the break, we heard claims

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Speaker 2: that Trump supporters are allegedly sending pizzas to judges houses

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Speaker 2: in the US kind of as a warning for them

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Speaker 2: to rule in Trump's favor and upcoming cases. Are we

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Speaker 2: just talking about a handful of incidents here or is

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Speaker 2: this happening quite often?

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Speaker 4: Well, no, it's not a handful. It seems to be

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Speaker 4: a number that is rapidly growing this way. The context

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Speaker 4: here is back in twenty nineteen, when President was first

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Speaker 4: elected for his first term, the national body that thinks

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Speaker 4: the US marshals who are responsible for looking after judges,

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Speaker 4: reported one hundred and seventy nine threats of violence against

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Speaker 4: federal judges. By twenty twenty three, that number was four

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty seven. And now the National Marshals haven't

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Speaker 4: released new figures for this year yet. Of course, they're

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Speaker 4: saying that the intensity of reports is increasing dramatically. So

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Speaker 4: among those new reports will be at least the sixty

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Speaker 4: judges involved in contradicting Trump's executive orders. And these judges

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Speaker 4: are from as diverse locations as Washington, DC, New York, California,

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Speaker 4: or Tennessee, South Carolina, Maryland, Oregon. It doesn't matter where

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Speaker 4: you are, or who you are, or which party member

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Speaker 4: you are. If the simple point is if you're seen

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Speaker 4: to put a impediment in front of the president's agenda,

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Speaker 4: you will then be targeted by these frustrated MARGA supporters.

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Speaker 2: Oh we just from an outsider's point of view, appears

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Speaker 2: to have changed so much since Trump took office earlier

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Speaker 2: this year. There seems to be a real culture of

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Speaker 2: fear creeping in. And it's not just the judges who

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Speaker 2: were scared, right, Jamie.

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Speaker 7: That's right.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's happening across government life, happening across public

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Speaker 4: service life, and to some extent even public sector life.

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Speaker 4: So we now have lawyers who are afraid to take

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Speaker 4: up the cases against Trump because their legal firms will

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Speaker 4: be sidelined by the government or punished by the government.

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Speaker 4: We're seeing federal employees being issued with memos saying you

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Speaker 4: must report what you see as anti Christian behavior amongst

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Speaker 4: your coworkers. Another case is the Library of Congress chief

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Speaker 4: who recently said that training AI with copyright material was illegal.

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Speaker 4: She was sacked because it went against what Trump has

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Speaker 4: promised various AI big wigs. So yeah, look, it's clearly

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Speaker 4: obvious that's a situation where arbitrator is needed, such as

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Speaker 4: a judge. And I guess that's why you want an

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Speaker 4: umpire that's wearing your colors.

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Speaker 2: You just feel like things couldn't only get worse here, right,

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Speaker 2: because according to your piece, there are some pretty hardcore

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Speaker 2: MARGA supporters who are frustrated with the Trump administration and

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Speaker 2: they're pushing for more action.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Well, yes, like I was saying, there's been a lot

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Speaker 4: of serious allegations about the swamp that is Washington, DC,

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Speaker 4: a lot of serious allegations about the depths of corruption

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Speaker 4: within the deep state, and one hundred days into the

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Speaker 4: Trump administration, a lot of these MARGA supporters are saying, well,

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Speaker 4: hang on, why aren't we seeing arrests, Why aren't we

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Speaker 4: seeing these people jailed? And naturally they're starting to get

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Speaker 4: a little bit impatient. One example of this is a

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Speaker 4: podcast supporter of Donald Trump who's been made the deputy

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Speaker 4: chief of the FBI, So he's had to go from

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Speaker 4: a situation where he was making these allegations to actually

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Speaker 4: proving these allegations to a point where they would stand

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Speaker 4: up in a court of law. And he's now trying

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Speaker 4: to tell his followers Margat supporters that hang on, give

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Speaker 4: us a chance. It takes time to do these things.

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Speaker 4: We've got to follow the proper legal processes. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's easy to say something, it's not so easy to

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Speaker 4: actually prove it, especially if there's nothing there to prove.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fascinating situation which is playing out over

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Speaker 2: in the United States. Jamie, I know you're across that.

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Speaker 2: You'll continue to report on it for news dot com

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Speaker 2: dot au. Thanks for chatting on the podcast today.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Heavy stuff, isn't it? I promised tomorrow's episode is going

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Speaker 2: to be much lighter. I will give you a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a tease of what we're going to do.

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Speaker 2: I'll be chatting to a twenty two year old whose

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Speaker 2: dad just happens to be one of the most famous

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Speaker 2: men in Australia. This kid is following in his father's

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Speaker 2: footsteps and has quickly made a name for himself in

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Speaker 2: his chosen industry. That's all I'm going to tell you.

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Speaker 2: Pop on your thinking cap and see if you can

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Speaker 2: figure out who it is before tomorrow's episode or catch you.

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Speaker 4: Then follow uors subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you

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Speaker 4: get your podcasts.