1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Good day, Welcome to the podcast is Better than Yesterday. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for downloading it. This show is does what it 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: says in the box. We've got useful tools and useful 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: conversations to make your day better than yesterday, and we're 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: doing it every single week since twenty thirteen. My am 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: Josh Againsberg. I'm very glad you here. We have a 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: live show. A new live show is happening on the 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: sixth of July at the Factory Theater in Marrickville. Huge cast, 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Marley Silver, Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Yeah, Ugly Phil, Nadia Townshend, 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Zoe Dot and Lodge and myself. The theme of the 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: show everybody needs good neighbors, live comedy, storytelling, early doors. 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: You'll be home by nine. I'd love to see you there. 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: The linkers in the show notes and that is also 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: where you can pre order your copy of my brand 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: new books, So What Now What, illustrated by Campbell Walker. 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: If you like this podcast, so this podcast has been 17 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: bringing you value. The greatest way you can repay me 18 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: for any good thing that you've got ever out of 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: this show is to pre order that book, because that 20 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: sends a huge signal to the publisher that this book. 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: Is worth getting behind. The partners really want it, particularly 22 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: if you look in Australia. 23 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: We also have a live show we're coming up very 24 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: very soon. I can't wait to tell you about that stuff. 25 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: We did the first technical test the other day and 26 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: it's incredible. But yeah, please bring order the book, and 27 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: if you do so, take a screenshot of your proof 28 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: of purchase and I'll send you a little something to 29 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: say thank you. Send out an email at gmail dot com, 30 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: just email it to me. 31 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: For a long time. 32 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Through popular culture, through movies, through books, or whatever, we 33 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: kind of have this heroic vision of a singular creative genius, 34 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: the solo man or the solo woman who just has 35 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: this incredible breakthrough. But what if the greatest ideas aren't 36 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: found in isolation, but only emerge when we truly open 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: ourselves up to be influenced by the brilliance of other people. 38 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about those questions quite a lot, and 39 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: we'll get to the answers right after this. It's really 40 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: hard to start from scratch. Starting anything from scratch is 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: very very difficult. Going from absolutely nothing to a fully 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: formed idea is really, really tough. It's like trying to 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: pull a rabbit out of a hat, except you don't 44 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: know what a rabbit is, or you don't have a hat, 45 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: let alone. 46 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: Do you know what magic is? 47 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: You kind of know you want to do something, need 48 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: kind of need something to react to. And I have 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: found that when it comes to creativity, when it comes 50 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: to coming up with ideas, even if their idea is 51 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: in a completely different direction, I have found that having 52 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: something to react to the tiniest spark of anything, the 53 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: whole process becomes infinitely easy. That's a whole reason why 54 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: when I'm working, when I'm writing, when I'm creating, I 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: actually make time to go and do stuff that isn't 56 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: working right and create, go and see things, experience things, 57 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: to do things so that I have something to react to. 58 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: So I give myself subconscious something to think about, something 59 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: to respond to. And this idea of having something to 60 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: react to was a big breakthrough moment when I started 61 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: working on this new book Somewha now What, because I 62 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: knew I wanted it to be illustrated and to be honest, 63 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: it was always going to be Cam Walker, also known 64 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: as Truthless. And if you don't know Cam's work, I 65 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: thoroughly recommend you're checking him out. I've worked with him 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: for a long time. He's an artist I've admired for 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: a very very long time. I have huge, huge respect 68 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: for him. He's incredibly successful, and he was really the 69 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: only person I ever really wanted to do the book. 70 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: But when it came time to ask him, I was 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: kind of apprehensive because I'm he's very accomplished person. He's 72 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: worked in the ad industry, He's worked he huge clients, 73 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: massive footwear, beverages. He's really a very highly regarded person internationally. 74 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: Could I keep up? 75 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: Would I be able to engage in work at that 76 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: kind of level? Would I be able to properly contribute? 77 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Would I hold him back? Would I be frustrating to 78 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: work with? I didn't want to sour our friendship by 79 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: being a shit person to collaborate with. But here's the 80 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: funny thing, Deep inside, somewhere, way way way down, down down, 81 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: kind of knew that I was going to need to 82 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: be able to give something to Cam to react to. 83 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: I was going to need to be able to give 84 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: Cam something more than just describing what it was that 85 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: I wanted. So about six months before I even asked Ham, 86 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: to illustrate this book, I started sketching again, aside from 87 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: a very brief period where I toyed with replicating how 88 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: my favorite comic book artists could draw human figures, about 89 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: twelve thirteen years ago. I haven't picked up a pencil 90 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: and put it to a heavy GSM paper since about 91 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, when I was in primary school art class, 92 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: so a really really long time ago. But I knew 93 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: I was going to need to give cam something to 94 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: work off. And that's when I remembered my dad. He 95 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: was a doctor and in the evenings, as a way 96 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: to relax he would listen to jazz music and smoke 97 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: a pipe because that's what you did when you're from Europe. 98 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: I sit on a bean bag and using mechanical pencils, 99 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: rot drink mechanical pencils. It was his one shop in Brisbane. 100 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: We used to go to get them, those big heavy 101 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: metal things, so I think for draftsmen and architects and 102 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: things to use. And he would draw these kind of 103 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: shaded geometric shapes, cubes and spheres and cones, just vanishing 104 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: into perspective. I was always fascinated by that he was 105 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: doing these repetitive kind of tessellations as he listened to 106 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: jazz music and just do it for hours. So about 107 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: six months ago, or six months before I hours Cam, 108 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: I started practicing what I'd seen my dad do. 109 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: Look, I didn't have a bean bag, nor do I 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: smoke anymore, but I just draw. 111 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: Now. I still didn't know what the main character of 112 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: my book was going to look like, but I was 113 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: just drawing shapes, cubes and tryangle and cylinders, because all 114 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: of nature drawing anything as cubes and triangles and cylinders 115 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: and rectangles. So sure enough, when I finally landed on 116 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: the lead character of So What Now What, and I 117 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: just came to the acceptance like, oh, Cricky, it's going 118 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: to be really hard, but I'm going to need the 119 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: lead character to be a glove. 120 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: I knew that I had to be good. 121 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: I had to get better because hands are really, really, 122 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: really hard to draw. As you heard Cam and I 123 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: discussed the other Monday, there's a reason why comic book 124 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: characters usually only have three fingers sometimes for and they 125 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: always wear gloves because hands are really hard. They're incredibly 126 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: expressive things, as Cam Walker says, they are the eyebrow 127 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: of their arm and they're very, very tricky to draw. 128 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: So because of the work that I've been doing, when 129 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: I did finally ask Cam Hay and he was like 130 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: really into it, he was so excited. I was able 131 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: to so write the words, this are the words that 132 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: I want the book to be. And in this particular moment, 133 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: I see this glove running away from this thing, and 134 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: I was able to draw it with the kind of 135 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: facial reactions and the sketches and stuff that I would 136 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: want it to do. Now, this isn't at all about 137 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: me going how great artistically I am and how much 138 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: of an excellent sketch artist I am, because I'm not. 139 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: It was about giving Cam something to start with, something 140 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: concrete to react to. And what it did was it 141 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: made at our collaboration incredibly efficient, just being able to 142 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: understand the same vibe of where we were going. Now, 143 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: the other really crucial thing about working with Cam was 144 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: understanding my place in this I am not an expert illustrator. 145 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,679 Speaker 1: Cam is If in Cam's expert opinion, this particular picture 146 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: that we've ended up with is great, then guess what 147 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: that picture is great? And that's the picture that goes 148 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: in the book. He would say things like, well, I 149 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of see that Globy was trying to do this, 150 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: and so I made this happen. You're like perfect. I 151 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: would never have thought of that. That makes it even better. 152 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: No notes, Because there was a time when my ego 153 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: would really get in a way, back when I was 154 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: working in television and stuff like that. I would be 155 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: very selfish on whose idea and who owned the idea. 156 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: And you can waste so much time with endless notes 157 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: and tweaks and adjustments and try to make everything fit 158 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: this exact kind of singular vision of this has to 159 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: be what it is. 160 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: But thankfully I've. 161 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: Learned in the last ten twelve years or so that 162 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: if you try and push and pull everyone to conform 163 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: to only your idea, it does make people less enthusiastic 164 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: about being involved because they don't tend to get their 165 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: own input. And that's important for people to have their 166 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: own input in the project. But if I can put 167 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: my ego aside and truly believe that everybody else there 168 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: might just be able to add something that I haven't 169 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: thought of, something that is going to make this initial 170 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: idea even more excellent, then that's only going to make 171 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: the final output. Final product whatever it is we're making 172 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: TV show book, it's going to make the final thing 173 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: even better. And I reckon that was mostly true. If 174 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: there's one hundred and twenty eight or so pages in 175 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: the book, there's probably three illustrations where I was really 176 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: particular and said, you know, I love what you've gone 177 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: with this, but actually for this one, just this one, 178 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: I think it just needs to be this simple. It 179 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: can't be any And that was only ever it. I 180 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: just didn't want anything to confuse those really powerful punching. 181 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: Moments in the book. 182 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: And Cam was super cool about it, because he's an 183 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: excellent collaborator as well. 184 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: That was also quite useful. 185 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: But everything that Cam brought to the table only made 186 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 1: this book more incredible. And that's the point of a 187 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: great collaboration, isn't it. By adding two people's ideas together, 188 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: you end up with even better ideas than just the 189 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: two of them could have ever come up with. You're 190 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: creating something far more superior to what either of you 191 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: could have achieved a loan. And it's totally okay if 192 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: they're not all your ideas, all right. It's like when 193 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: we were making the news show the best Droke Wins 194 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: that's it. I don't care who says it, who writes 195 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter best Droke wins. That's always for the 196 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: best because if you're trusting other people on the team, 197 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: you believe in their expertise, believe that they are wanting 198 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: their final project to six it as well, then you 199 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: know they're going to do their best. And just because 200 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: you may not understand doesn't mean it's not incredible, because 201 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: they might be giving you some sort of next level 202 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: shit that no one's ever thought of, and if you 203 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: can believe their expertise, it's incredibly rewarding for everybody involved. 204 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: And that's that. 205 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: There's a truly wonderful feeling as well of just letting 206 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: go of that precise vision that I had in my mind. 207 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: Sometimes now sometimes. 208 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, like Cam would bring me an idea something for 209 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: then me to react back to, and we'll have a 210 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: trusting space between us to go you know what, man, 211 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: I think the original idea that you brought was actually 212 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: more powerful here. 213 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: And that's fine. 214 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: Too, because it allowed us to explore other possibilities and 215 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: it's important to kind of see what both final pictures 216 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: look like and then you can go actually know this 217 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: is it? This is actually the one. 218 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: So I've got to take a quick break. But on 219 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 2: the other side of this, I just I want. 220 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: To distill all those down into four really simple points 221 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: and really one real main, main question that I want 222 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: you to ask yourself. If you're ever collaborating with anybody, 223 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: be right back. When I think about what I've learned 224 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: about collaborating. Any TV show I may ever made was 225 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: always a collaboration, sometimes with one hundred and fifteen other people. 226 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: It was always more rewarding and always more fun when 227 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: I thought about. 228 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: It as this is something we're all doing together. 229 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: Early on, before I got sober and when I was 230 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: very at my own ass, if I ever thought about it, 231 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: how can I make this make me look more good 232 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: about me? It was always a punish and it was 233 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: always hard and it wasn't fun. 234 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: But when I. 235 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: Think about it in the context of how can all 236 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: of us benefit from all of this, it's always better, 237 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: always better, because then you're also thinking about it together. 238 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: You're thinking, well, what is it we're trying to do 239 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: with is what's the job that this thing does? What 240 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: truly matters in any project, TV show, group holiday with 241 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: a family with your friends, some real estate project, I 242 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: don't know. Well, only really matters is what's the job 243 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: this thing is here to do? In the instance of 244 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: so what now what this book? It's supposed to be 245 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: a tool. It's a resource that people can use when 246 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: they're having a tough time. And our goal it's how 247 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: can I make this book as useful as possible to 248 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: as many people as possible, as valuable a tool for someone. 249 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: Who's having a bad day. 250 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: So when Cam and I were able to put all 251 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: of our own ego aside, and it's not as easy 252 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: for Cam to do, both of our work is completely 253 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: aligning with the value and the job that this book 254 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: is trying to do, the value it's trying to bring 255 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: to people's lives. 256 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: It made it super duper easy. 257 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: So if you're working with somebody else right now, his 258 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: four simple, simple, simple, simple, simple questions to ask around 259 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: collaborating powerfully. The question number one, what's the ultimate value 260 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: you want to bring through this project for anyone that's 261 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: going to experience it. 262 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: Or use it. 263 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Get really clear on that value. What is the thing 264 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: that you need at the end. So if it's the 265 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: family holiday, it's not I want to go on a 266 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: holiday to the colcast. What do you really want out 267 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: of a holiday? I want a time that my family 268 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: will remember. I want to have memories that I can 269 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: share with my family. Okay, great. The second thing what 270 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: can I give everybody else to react to? Don't expect 271 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: people to come up with ideas out of thin air. 272 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: If you offer a starting point, even a rough idea, 273 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: just a simple sketch, that makes the collaborative process a 274 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: lot easier for everybody. The third thing I would say 275 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: is try to put your ego aside, Embrace the expertise 276 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: of other people, Recognize that their contributions can make your 277 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: ideas even better. Be open to other perspectives, trust their 278 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: judgment in the areas of expertise they that are greater 279 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: than yours, and just trust that they are into this 280 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: thing succeeding as much as you are. And the fourth 281 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: thing I would say is try to align on that 282 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: shared purpose and that value. When everyone's focused on the 283 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: benefit of the outcome, it doesn't matter whose idea it was. 284 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: It really doesn't. What matters is achieving the goal of 285 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: the job that this thing is here to do. You 286 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: want incredible memories with your kids, doesn't matter whose idea 287 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: it was to go to work and wild They'll still 288 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: be talking about everybody going down the big tube slide 289 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: at someone's twenty first, And that's what you really want 290 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: out of it, isn't it. The other thing it's just 291 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: really incredible at working on this book is I got 292 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: to work with Cam fucking Walkerman, the guys Wise Wise Wise. 293 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: And the other night when we were on the cusp 294 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: of sending out the first review copies to people, and 295 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: I texted Cam when I said, I'm sure you've done 296 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: plenty of videos about this moment, and this moment is 297 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: is my idea too fucking out? There? Is anybody going 298 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: to get it? You know, this idea of a book 299 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: where a glove is talking directly to the reader. And 300 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: Cam wrote back to me those two questions have generally 301 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: been the experience of my life, But sometimes I think 302 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: the opposite questions are worth asking too. Question one is 303 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: my idea too boring? And question two? Will anybody get 304 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: it so easily? It feels condescending. Now those two things 305 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: hit me in the chest like a street fighter hadukin. 306 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: But they're really really important. So you've got your four 307 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: steps of collaborating really well, But maybe ask those ones. 308 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: Is my idea too boring? Will anybody get it so 309 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: easily that it feels condescending? Maybe ask those as well, 310 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: so you can challenge you and your collaboration partners to 311 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: really really swing for the fences. I hope this has 312 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: brought you some value. I hope you've enjoyed this today. 313 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed talking about it because, you know, I 314 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: was asked to reflect on what it was to collaborate 315 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: with Cam and it was really freeing and really delightful 316 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: watching what could be possible when I let go of 317 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: ego and just trusted, trusted that both people's ideas would 318 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: make this thing even greater. You can pre order your 319 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: copy of the book right now if you like, and 320 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: you'll find a link in the show notes. Thanks Adam 321 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: bunch Of for making the show. 322 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: Talked to you on Wednesday.