1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: The big story today, it's the only story really. Aaron 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Patterson facing life behind barns after being found guilty of 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: murdering her in laws and her mother in law's sister, 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: Heather Wilkinson, Donngale Patterson and Heather Wilkinson, and guilty of 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: the attempted murder of the survivor, Ian Wilkinson, by serving 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: them beef Wellington laced with death cap mushrooms at a 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: leon Gatha home back in twenty twenty three more than 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: fifty witnesses. The defense arguing it was a tragic accident, 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: and the prosecution will the jury siding with them, that 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: she deliberately poisoned the meals and intended to kill her relatives, 11 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: disposed of the dehydrator to conceal the crime. Little emotion 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: the man following it all today and right through Chris 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: Reason seven years chief reporter Chris Good evening. 14 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: To you good at talking, Mattey. 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: What's next? Obviously sentencing at some stage in the next 16 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: what month or so? I imagine? 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, lookt well won't move that quickly, though, the judge 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: Christopher Biel today and now the latest time the next 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: time these parties would meet again would be in August 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: this year, and that day they will set down a 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: date for pre sentencing. Now, pre sending thing is the 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: time when they bring together all the victim impact statements. 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: They'll probably hear the Crown prosecutor make a bid for 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: multiple life sentences, and at that point the judges will 25 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: go away and then deliberate, make his decisions, et cetera. 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: But before we even get to that, they're talking about 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: an appeal from Aaron Patterson. She's widely believed to be 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: I've always had that as her backup plan. The defense 29 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: that talked to her this afternoon before she was wished 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: away in the prison van, and there's every chance that 31 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: she could go that avenue. So there's a long way 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: from finished yet. 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: Well, okay, so they would be examining every bit of 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: the trial, now, wouldn't they what the prosecution said, what 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: was put forward, what the witnesses said, to see if 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: this room there for an appeal exactly? 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: And the point will I mean interestingly that the appeal 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: I think will go before three justices the appeals court, 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 2: not a trial, not a jury, as we've seen these 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: last ten weeks. So it would more run to legal 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 2: issues and problems of admissibility on certain points of evidence 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 2: and exhibits that were used, et cetera. So we will 43 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: discover down the track. Technically, Victoria has a twenty eight 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: day window of appeal when the defense has to lodge 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: their intentions to whether or they're going to go ahead 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: with that. So we hopefully will know shortly whether they're 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: going to take that avenue. But if they do, and 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: if they decide to lodge that appeal, we could be 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: talking months, potentially years before we see a final resolution 50 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: to this case. 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Well, okay, you know it's funny, Chris. I heard a 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: summing up and I've mentioned this on there a few 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: times some weeks ago, just as the trial ended, before 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: the jury began deliberating, which is about a fortnight ago anyway, 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: and it was a summing up of both sides on 56 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: national news radio, and I thought, listening to that, there's 57 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: enough in the defense in terms of planting a seed 58 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: of doubt as to her guilt. But obviously the jury 59 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: saw it completely differently and got on them. 60 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean it's fascinating me as well. And 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm exactly the same position as you when I flew 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: down here to cover this case. After you know, watching 63 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 2: it as the rest of Australia had since July twenty three. 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: Then when it was all breaking and it looked so 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: clearly in my opinion, then it's sort of guilty. But 66 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: after watching the ten days of evidence go back and forth, 67 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: and particularly the defense line of questioning from her barrister, 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: Colin Mandy Esd, he very cleverly sprinkled these seeds of 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: doubt across the jury. And I'm going to say a 70 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: lot of my peers, a lot of my friends, my 71 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: social circle was starting to think, oh, I know, she's 72 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 2: got a lot of reasonable excuses for that, things like 73 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: the hydrator being thrown away, which is a key part 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: of the prosecution case. She'd told police no Ie never 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 2: owned a hydrated and suddenly the police say, what's this. 76 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: You've got a manual for operating one, and you've got 77 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: video here of you throwing one away at the tip 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: just after the lunch, and she panicked and said, I 79 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: was scared because I thought you guys were going to, 80 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: you know, arrest me and accuse me of what you 81 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: accused me of. That the panic idea came in there 82 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: and she talked about that's why she swapped the sin 83 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 2: cards on the mobile phone lost one of the mobile 84 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: phone she wanted to She wiped the phone, she said, 85 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: because she was worried the police would see the photographs 86 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 2: of the mushrooms and the hydrated that she'd been using 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: in the last previous months before the lunch. So she 88 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 2: sort of said, look, I panic, and like most normal people, 89 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: you would panic if you thought you were going to 90 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: be investigated for murder. And I think most of Australia thought, okay, 91 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: maybe you would do that. And then there was the 92 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: cancer one as well, where she said she told her 93 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: family to come to lunch she said, I've got cancer. 94 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: It turned out she didn't have cancer, she had body 95 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: image issues instead, and it was all about hiding the 96 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 2: fact that she was actually going to have a gastric 97 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: band surgery. And so again I think people sort of went, oh, okay, 98 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: and maybe you would lie about cancer hide the fact 99 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: that you had a body image problem. So just a 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: couple of examples there of how the defense managed to 101 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: weave this doubt and uncertainty into that jury. And I 102 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: think at the end of the day the judge said, 103 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: you have to be one hundred percent right. And as 104 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: the juries sort of got the six days. We were 105 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: starting to think, oh, maybe they are struggling with it, 106 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 2: maybe they are at gridlock. But as you say, that 107 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: came down with this decision today in the afternoon and 108 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: it has to be unanimous in Victoria, and it was 109 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: twelve of them said you were guilty of that crowd. 110 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: And there are guys on your news service tonight, Chris. 111 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: At six pm, I was watching that and one of 112 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: the reports from your reporter outside the prison just out 113 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: of Melbourne there where she was being taken to, suggested 114 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: that she interfered with a meal allegedly another prisoner and 115 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: that person fell ill. Has that been corroborating. 116 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: It hasn't yet. The report in the Herald Sun, they'd 117 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: ran it late this afternoon after the verdict came down. 118 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 2: They felt they were able to start reporting that information. 119 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: And the media obviously bound by very strict rules on 120 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 2: what we can and can't report while a case is 121 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: live in front of the jury, but the paper felt 122 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: it was safe to run that story that those allegations 123 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 2: once that jury was finished. So look, that was the 124 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 2: allegation made. They had sources from within Victoria's largest prison, 125 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: a female prison, Dame Phillip's Frost Correction Center, saying that 126 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: one prisoner had a led she felt ill and fell 127 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: ill after eating a meal that had been part prepared 128 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: by Aaron Patterson. Now we don't know how much truth 129 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: there is to that. It would be fascinating if that 130 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: was the case. I'd be frankly surprised that the prison 131 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: authorities let her anywhere near a kitchen. Well exactly then 132 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: the allegation ship was under at the time, so we'd 133 00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: take that one with the grain of steal. 134 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: Would she have to be in protective custody. 135 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: I would think so. I mean, she's a high profile 136 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: celebrity prisoner. Everybody will want a piece of her. And 137 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: the talk is that she has been given a very 138 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: separate cell with fairly generous treatment, a cabinet of some sort, 139 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: microwave I think my colleague said, and some other amenities 140 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: as well. That was while she was in the process 141 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: of being going through the trial. It might now change 142 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: given she's been found guilty. She might lose those privileges 143 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: and go back into the normal prison population. But I 144 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: think they would have to do something to keep her 145 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: protected because she will be the center of a lot 146 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: of attention right now. 147 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, Chris, really appreciate your insights as always, and 148 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: you're up late. I know you've been reporting for the 149 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: seven network, but really appreciate you coming on here on 150 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: five double A. 151 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: Thank you pleasure man, Thank you, thanks so much. 152 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: Chris Reason from seven on the Well, the findings finally 153 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: and we've been waiting what the best part of a 154 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: fortnight now I think, or into the second week at 155 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: least for the jury to make a call. And it 156 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: took a long time, and I was thinking the longer 157 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: it went on. When they didn't come back after a 158 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: couple of days to say guilty, then I'm thinking this 159 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: is not looking good for getting a unanimous verdict, particularly 160 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: again referring to that summing up, I heard where the 161 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: defense the argument was, and the summing up referred to 162 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: the seeds that the defense had planted during the trial, 163 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: as you heard Chris outline. And it made me think, well, 164 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: in terms of being absolutely certain that she's guilty, that's 165 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: enough to perhaps so the doubt that she's not. But 166 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: the jury and they took their time, but the juries 167 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: get it right. So as far as her being guilty, 168 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: we're good result for the jury and there it is. 169 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: We'll have to get your thoughts eight double two to 170 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: three double o double ow the number and the case 171 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: over for the time being, so we can certainly chat 172 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: about it here on five double. As a Victorian jurisdiction 173 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: matter in any case, although sometimes streaming in all of that, 174 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: but I don't think that will matter too much in 175 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: this case, given there is a complete unanimous guilty verdict