WEBVTT - The arrest of Alan Jones

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Alan Jones was at home at his luxury Circular Key

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<v Speaker 1>apartment yesterday morning when child Abuse Squad detectives arrived to

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<v Speaker 1>arrest him. For nine months, police have been working on

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<v Speaker 1>a top secret investigation that now charged Ellen Jones with

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four offenses involving eight victims. Among the charges are

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<v Speaker 1>eleven of aggravated and decent assault where the victim was

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<v Speaker 1>under the authority of the offender. His arrest is the

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<v Speaker 1>latest chapter in the downfall of one of Australia's most

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<v Speaker 1>controversial figures, a man one of his alleged victims described

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<v Speaker 1>as being more powerful than the Prime Minister. Today, investigative

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<v Speaker 1>reporter and author of Jonestown, The Power and Myth of

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<v Speaker 1>Alan Jones, Chris Masters on the fall of one of

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<v Speaker 1>Australia's most powerful men and one it tells us about

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<v Speaker 1>the nature of power itself in this country. This Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>November nineteen, Chris, thanks for speaking with me. Alan Jones

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<v Speaker 1>has been arrested. Can you tell me why.

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<v Speaker 2>I understand that he's been arrested on various charges of

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<v Speaker 2>indecent assault. I certainly have some knowledge of an inquiry

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<v Speaker 2>that's been going on for some time. You know, the

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<v Speaker 2>police came and edited me some time back, and of

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<v Speaker 2>course there were witnesses from the book that I wrote, Jonestown,

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<v Speaker 2>that was published back in two thousand and six, and

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm still in contact with them, I've heard that

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<v Speaker 2>they've also been giving statements to the police, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>one of them said to me last week they thought

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<v Speaker 2>that an arrest was imminent.

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<v Speaker 3>Police will elect. These offenses took place between two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and one and nineteen, involving eighth victims. The youngest of

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<v Speaker 3>those victims a seventy year old when the time, at

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<v Speaker 3>the time when it leads the heads to the face.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, we're talking about allegations. Nothing has yet been proved.

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<v Speaker 3>Those offenses include eleven charges of aggravated decent assault where

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<v Speaker 3>the victim was under the authority of the offender, nine

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<v Speaker 3>charges related to assault with active and decency, two charges

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<v Speaker 3>of common assault, two charges of sexual touching.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's been speculation about Jones abuse of

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<v Speaker 2>power and predatory behavior that go back well before I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote that book twenty years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris, you've reported extensively on things like the military on

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<v Speaker 1>war crimes, most recently Ben Roberts Smith. But you also

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<v Speaker 1>developed a long running interest in Alan Jones too. What

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<v Speaker 1>first drew you to him as a subject.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my interest began in the early two thousands. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>been reporting a lot on police corruption and I was

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<v Speaker 2>quite surprised when I came to recognize that Jones had

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<v Speaker 2>some power and law enforcement when he engaged in kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a long running combat with the reformist police commissioner

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Ryan. He was brought in from the UK because

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<v Speaker 2>there were lots of concerns about the institutional corruption in

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<v Speaker 2>the New South Wales police force, and Jones seemed to

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot of allies that were Andy, Peter Ryan

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<v Speaker 2>and Andy the reform process. And I wondered about that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I worried about that, and I went and saw

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<v Speaker 2>Alan Jones and we had a bit of a discussion.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't want to do an interview with me, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was all all very polite. But essentially I came

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<v Speaker 2>to the view that if my job was in front

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<v Speaker 2>of abuse of power and I was seeing it in

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<v Speaker 2>my own industry, than at four quarters in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>You take a deep breath and the story you least

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<v Speaker 2>want to do is the one you probably should do.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have thought that when I began that in

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<v Speaker 2>about two thousand and two, I'd still be talking about

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<v Speaker 2>it over twenty years later.

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<v Speaker 1>So you ended up taking a deep dive into Alan

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<v Speaker 1>Jones's life. What can you tell us about his upbringing

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<v Speaker 1>and how he became such a significant public figure in

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<v Speaker 1>Australian life.

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<v Speaker 2>He came from fairly humble circumstances. He was the son

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<v Speaker 2>of a Southeast Queensland farmer, had a very small, impoverished block. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>his mother was a special person. She insisted that the

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<v Speaker 2>children go to private schools, which must have been a

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<v Speaker 2>stretch for them. And so Alan had this kind of

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<v Speaker 2>cross cultural background where on the one hand he aligned

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<v Speaker 2>himself with the working poor, but on the other hand

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<v Speaker 2>he also sort of seemed comfortable with the elites, which

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<v Speaker 2>had something to do with that. To warm but grammar

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<v Speaker 2>school upbringing, I think he always was thought of as

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<v Speaker 2>something of a boy genius, had youthful looks, and he

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<v Speaker 2>became tertiary educated, you know, he got a teacher's qualification.

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<v Speaker 2>He taught at Ironsight Primary. He then went on to

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<v Speaker 2>teach at Brisbane grammar, and that's where a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the problems began. Jones seemed to be unduly interested in

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<v Speaker 2>the young man. You heard stories about allegations of grooming

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<v Speaker 2>of Joanes, spending undue time with students, of Jones after athletics,

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<v Speaker 2>massaging students, you know, having them shower, et cetera in

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<v Speaker 2>front of him, that sort of thing. He wouldn't get

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<v Speaker 2>away with it today. You know, you couldn't have a

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<v Speaker 2>master in the car with a student and two o'clock

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning, which something that happened with Alan quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit. In many respects, he was invaluable to the

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<v Speaker 2>school because he was prepared to coach all of the

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<v Speaker 2>sporting teams and to do the choir and drama and

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<v Speaker 2>work late at night while other teachers with families were

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<v Speaker 2>going home. So he became invaluable. And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>became a bit of a trick over the years. Wherever

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<v Speaker 2>he worked in politics, in broadcasting, or as an educator,

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<v Speaker 2>he made himself kind of invaluable and in a way untouchable.

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<v Speaker 1>In the process of writing that book, he witnessed Jones's

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<v Speaker 1>influences firsthand. As the ABC decided not to publish the

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<v Speaker 1>book at the last minute. All your recollections from that time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was a really shocking experience for me. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>still a bit shaken by it, actually, because very proud

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<v Speaker 2>of the ABC and I always thought the ABC was

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<v Speaker 2>the place to go that would do the stories that

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<v Speaker 2>others wouldn't do. I've been through the Queensland Police carre

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<v Speaker 2>ruption experience, you know, where I sued for something like

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen years, and I thought that the ogacy was absolutely fearless.

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't turn out to be the case. My sense

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<v Speaker 2>was that they decided that they were going to kill

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<v Speaker 2>it by saying that it was just unpublishable. That the

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<v Speaker 2>lawyer said that, you know, I couldn't back it up,

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<v Speaker 2>But that wasn't the case. I kept providing their lawyers

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<v Speaker 2>with the evidence that proved that what I'd written was defensible.

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<v Speaker 2>In the end, they just gave up and said, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to go ahead with this. And as

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<v Speaker 2>it turned out, I went to a commercial publisher, Alan

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<v Speaker 2>and Nunman, and they published the book. Certainly he had

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<v Speaker 2>friends in high places. Yes, a lot of influence was

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<v Speaker 2>brought to bear.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break. How Alan Jones cultivated powerful

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<v Speaker 1>friends and got what he wanted out of them. He

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<v Speaker 1>did Ellen Jones cultivate these powerful friends. What did that

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<v Speaker 1>look like in practice? Based on the research and reporting

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<v Speaker 1>you did.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was it was more that people feared

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<v Speaker 2>him than respected him. The politicians would go on his

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<v Speaker 2>show and if he didn't play ball, he beat them up.

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<v Speaker 2>The people who cowtowed to Jones, And honestly, they told

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<v Speaker 2>me this up close plenty of times. You know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not doing it, Chris, because I respect him. I'm doing

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<v Speaker 2>it because I fear him. He can go on air

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<v Speaker 2>and belt me up every day till the cows come home,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's pretty much what he would do.

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<v Speaker 4>She's a clown, justin there, Ada in a complete clown.

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<v Speaker 4>I just wonder whether Scott Morrison's going to be fully

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<v Speaker 4>brief to shove a sock down the throat. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>she is a joke, this woman, and an absolute and

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<v Speaker 4>utter lightweight.

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<v Speaker 5>Go away, Juliet. We don't want to see you.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't want to hear you climb into a chart.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of broadcasters, journalists, you know, we're supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>stay in our lane, and most of them pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>stick to the lane. But not Alan. Alan pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>saw himself as a prime minister in front of the microphone.

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<v Speaker 2>He would tell prime ministers and premiers what to do

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<v Speaker 2>unhesitantly all the time. And I suppose he got away

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<v Speaker 2>with it because they led him. But every now and then,

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<v Speaker 2>in a battle of which a lot of them could

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<v Speaker 2>easily take him on, Malcolm Turnbull did it famously on

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<v Speaker 2>one occasion.

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<v Speaker 5>If you could say after me this as a senior

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<v Speaker 5>member of the Abbot government, I want to say here,

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<v Speaker 5>I am totally supportive of the Abbot Hockey strategy for

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<v Speaker 5>budget repair.

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<v Speaker 2>Allan, I am not going to take dictation from you.

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<v Speaker 2>I am a cabinet minister. I support But at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>even though he might have vested Alan in front of

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<v Speaker 2>the microphone, there was no upside in opposing him. You

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<v Speaker 2>came off worse up at the end of the day

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<v Speaker 2>because to Jones's audience, you know, you were the enemy.

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<v Speaker 2>It made me think that in one respect he retained

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<v Speaker 2>his omnipotence because of that microphone. One of the chapters

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<v Speaker 2>in my book Jonestown was called Dictators and Tigers, and

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<v Speaker 2>I speculated way back then that Jones was writing a

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<v Speaker 2>tiger and as soon as he got off that tiger.

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<v Speaker 2>It threatened to devour him, and of course that's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much the way it's panned out.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the men who spoke about his experiences said

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<v Speaker 1>he did so because he doesn't want Alan Jones to

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<v Speaker 1>get away with it. That if people don't know about this,

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<v Speaker 1>Jones is likely to get a state funeral. He'll get

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<v Speaker 1>a prime minister at his funeral. What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>Alan Jones' legacy will be.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a book in that. Yeah. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's a really sad story. Actually, at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the day, I think he was a very, very lonely man.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was awful for him to go back

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<v Speaker 2>to that expensive apartment night after night and be essentially alone.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure that he had a lot of friends.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the worst thing about him is his

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<v Speaker 2>formula for success, the shock jock formula for success, which

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<v Speaker 2>was to be strident. Never sit on the fence, he'd say,

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<v Speaker 2>because it only gives you splinters. The reverse index of

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<v Speaker 2>certainty is how I explained it. Alan Jones would be

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely certain about issues where very little research was involved,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course that was important. It was important if

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<v Speaker 2>you were on air to be angry and forthright, day

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<v Speaker 2>in and day out, that it's an unfortunate formula for

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<v Speaker 2>democracy and for our business. If we really believe in facts,

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<v Speaker 2>and if we believe it's about the pursuit of truth,

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<v Speaker 2>then you don't follow the Jones formula. But sadly, I

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<v Speaker 2>think a great many people have.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Masters, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe says

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<v Speaker 1>she'll use a paper copy of a censure motion against

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<v Speaker 1>her the kindling the Senator ripped up the motion passed

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<v Speaker 1>by the Senate and response to Thought's protest during King

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<v Speaker 1>Charles's visit, Thorpe claims she's not concerned about the motion

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<v Speaker 1>which passed without her in the room, and then when

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<v Speaker 1>it came to protesting against the she would do it again.

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<v Speaker 1>Also centured was Senator Ralph Babbitt, whose post celebrating Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>election victory contained a number of racist and offensive terms.

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<v Speaker 1>As three million Australians are at risk of homelessness, a

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<v Speaker 1>stark sixty three percent increase compared to just eight years

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<v Speaker 1>ago in twenty sixteen. The finding was published in a

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<v Speaker 1>new report which also found a nearly ten percent increase

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<v Speaker 1>and people who received an income being forced to sleep

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<v Speaker 1>in tents or cars due to the cost and availability

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<v Speaker 1>of private rentals. The report highlighted the ongoing crisis in youth,

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<v Speaker 1>domestic and family crisis refuges. Many two under resource to

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<v Speaker 1>weinswer phones, or emails, with some even closing their doors

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<v Speaker 1>during opening hours in order to deal with the growing demand.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James. This is seven a m. Thanks for listening.