WEBVTT - Credlin | 16 September

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Credlin, live from News 24.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice and early, Chris Kenny, you're keeping me on my toes. Welcome,

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<v Speaker 2>good evening, to the program. Here's Credlin. The show's big tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll start with the first issue when I talk about

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<v Speaker 2>yet more warnings tonight of Australia's failure to address the

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<v Speaker 2>rise of radical extremism. The man who abruptly quit as

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<v Speaker 2>the advisor to the Bondi Royal Commission, Dennis Richardson, joins

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<v Speaker 2>me as he fears the political correctness is shutting down

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<v Speaker 2>the national security debate. Victoria's $ 200 billion debt bomb and

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<v Speaker 2>the secretive deal that Labor used to cook the budget

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<v Speaker 2>books as polling shows the decision to boot St Alan

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<v Speaker 2>for Ben Carroll is not helping Labor. More revelations too

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<v Speaker 2>tonight on the Prime Minister's golf club grants scandal and

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<v Speaker 2>the net migration wrangle. Labor set to reveal its magic

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<v Speaker 2>number tomorrow. It says it'll get Australia on a stronger path.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot riding on that.

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<v Speaker 3>We do need to get net overseas migration down. To

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<v Speaker 3>be able to work through this, we need to be

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<v Speaker 3>able to make sure that we deal with the numbers.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to make sure that we deal with the

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<v Speaker 3>numbers overall and do so in a sensible, targeted way

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<v Speaker 3>that provides the easiest pathway through for the Australian economy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure Labor's got the trust quotient on migration anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see what eventuates tomorrow. But first, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>return now to the Prime Minister's decision to announce a

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<v Speaker 2>$ 6 million grant to his local golf club and the

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<v Speaker 2>excuses coming thick and fast as to why this is

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<v Speaker 2>above board when taxpayers still don't have the answers they deserve.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's start with some basic numbers that I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to find interesting. Not only is a $ 6 million

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<v Speaker 2>grant to the Marrickville Golf Club one of the largest

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<v Speaker 2>sporting grants on record, but this club has barely any members.

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<v Speaker 2>I've done a bit of research today and uncovered that

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<v Speaker 2>from the most recent numbers at Golf New South Wales, well,

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<v Speaker 2>they report the club is only having 417 affiliated golfers. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking here about social members or casual users.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about registered golfers. So you do the maths.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a grant from taxpayers that works out to be

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<v Speaker 2>around $ 14, 000 per affiliated golfer at Marrickville. That's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money, particularly when the rules about paying out these

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<v Speaker 2>grants require the organisation to show a wide community reach.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is in the government's own documents. Page eight

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<v Speaker 2>says that applicants are required to demonstrate why the projects

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<v Speaker 2>needed by the community and how the community will benefit

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<v Speaker 2>and that the broader benefits your project will deliver for

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<v Speaker 2>the region and community. On page nine, Applicants were specifically

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<v Speaker 2>asked to provide examples of how your project may benefit

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<v Speaker 2>the wider community, not just your organisation or operation. It

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<v Speaker 2>also asks about the level of community participation in the project.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that's a question that must be answered here on Marrickville.

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<v Speaker 2>The council's own research recorded evidence of the golf club's

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<v Speaker 2>declining membership, While consultation by the council identified people who

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<v Speaker 2>felt the public land there wasn't adequately shared, they were

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<v Speaker 2>concerned about being hit by golf balls. Further, that a

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<v Speaker 2>nine hole course would have provided more benefit to the community.

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<v Speaker 2>So if the golf club didn't get its $ 6 million

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<v Speaker 2>windfall because of wide community reach, then how did it

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<v Speaker 2>get funded? How material is the fact at 200 metres

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<v Speaker 2>from the golf club, is a $ 3 million home still

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<v Speaker 2>owned by the Prime Minister? Now, this is a legitimate

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<v Speaker 2>question to ask. The Prime Minister has tried very hard

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<v Speaker 2>to say that allocating this money was not his decision,

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<v Speaker 2>that it was his close friend and factional ally, Catherine King,

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<v Speaker 2>who was in charge.

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<v Speaker 4>The decision-maker is the Minister for Infrastructure. I'm not even

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<v Speaker 4>the decision-maker.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, as I revealed last night, after last year's election,

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<v Speaker 2>King set up the framework for this half a billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollar fund and announced it on the 1st of September.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's a full six months after Albanese himself announced

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<v Speaker 2>the money. In public servant speak, she might have signed

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<v Speaker 2>the cheque, but it was her boss, the Prime Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>that told the club back in April that they had

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<v Speaker 2>this money in the bag. She might have rubber-stamped the decision,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was the Prime Minister who made it. And

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<v Speaker 2>here's the Prime Minister's press release from that time that

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<v Speaker 2>proves it. Just him, nothing at all here to do

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<v Speaker 2>with Catherine King. And what about this Facebook post from

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<v Speaker 2>July 29 from local Inner West Council Mayor Darcy Byrne,

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<v Speaker 2>himself a long-time factional mate of Albanese, the man most

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<v Speaker 2>likely to succeed him in the seat when the Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister retires? where he says the future of the Marrickville

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<v Speaker 2>Golf Club has been secured with a $ 6 million investment

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<v Speaker 2>towards its upgrade from the federal government. Remember, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>full two months before King even established her little process.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's the kicker. Have a look at this video from

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<v Speaker 2>the council mayor, Darcy Byrne, who put it to Facebook,

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<v Speaker 2>posted it up there on the 31st of July, and

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<v Speaker 2>it features him, his deputy, Matt Howard, and the golf

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<v Speaker 2>club president, Andrew Tai.

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<v Speaker 5>We're here at Marrickville Golf Club having a conversation about

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<v Speaker 5>the $ 6 million renovation that is soon to take place

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<v Speaker 5>here at this clubhouse, which is going to be even better.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm here with the deputy mayor, Matt Howard, and with

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<v Speaker 5>Andrew and Matt from Marrickville Golf Club And thanks to

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<v Speaker 5>the Federal Labor Government and to Prime Minister Albo for

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<v Speaker 5>the $ 6 million grant that they committed to during the campaign,

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<v Speaker 5>the Council's now been able to make the decision that

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<v Speaker 5>we're going to bring forward the design process for this

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<v Speaker 5>renovation and we'll fund the designs while we're waiting for

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<v Speaker 5>the grant to come through. So what are you guys

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<v Speaker 5>thinking about how this will.

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<v Speaker 6>Improve the club?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, look, it's going to be fantastic.

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<v Speaker 5>This will be the start of a whole new era

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<v Speaker 5>for the club. We'll be able to turn this place

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<v Speaker 5>into such a.

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<v Speaker 2>Wonderful community area.

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<v Speaker 5>This is going to be able to bring forward all

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<v Speaker 5>the projects that we've had planned for years and years

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<v Speaker 5>and years.

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<v Speaker 7>And we've always been after grant funding for this.

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<v Speaker 6>Now we've got a big kick of money and we'll

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<v Speaker 6>be able to.

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<v Speaker 8>Do it all.

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<v Speaker 5>As a Marriott local, you know, this is already a hub.

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<v Speaker 5>for the community, but imagine once it's a really high

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<v Speaker 5>quality facility, how.

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<v Speaker 6>Much it will be used. It's already a destination and

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<v Speaker 6>I think this upgrade is going to really bring more

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<v Speaker 6>locals down to the club. People love and have a

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<v Speaker 6>strong connection to the club and it's going to be

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<v Speaker 6>an even better place to come and Enjoy a beer

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<v Speaker 6>and some food with your family.

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<v Speaker 7>The live music will be great.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, all the community facilities are going to be really,

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<v Speaker 2>really good now. And it'll be sustainable. We'll be able

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<v Speaker 2>to keep this going for years and years and years now.

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<v Speaker 5>So thanks very much, Prime Minister Albanese. And the Inner

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<v Speaker 5>West Council is ready to work with the federal government

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<v Speaker 5>and with the club to make sure.

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<v Speaker 6>That we deliver a really high-quality facility.

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<v Speaker 2>OK, that Facebook post is months and months before... Catherine

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<v Speaker 2>King even opens her process. Do they sound like they're,

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<v Speaker 2>that they don't think they've got the money? Do they

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<v Speaker 2>sound like it's up in the air and there's a

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<v Speaker 2>process to go through? I mean, Labor needs to stop

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<v Speaker 2>insulting our intelligence, trying to deflect with excuses about process

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<v Speaker 2>and The question is not, did the Prime Minister have

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<v Speaker 2>a conflict of interest here? That's been established already. He does.

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<v Speaker 2>He does have a conflict of interest. The real question is,

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<v Speaker 2>was it disclosed and when did he disclose it? Now,

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<v Speaker 2>he can spin things all he likes. But the facts

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<v Speaker 2>are that this is his government handing out money to

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<v Speaker 2>a golf club in his backyard. And his long-standing relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with the club, something he first tried to deny, but

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<v Speaker 2>then was caught out by this footage.

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<v Speaker 8>And today I want to announce.

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<v Speaker 9>that a federal Labor government is committing $ 350, 000 to make

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<v Speaker 9>sure that this club can host more events, support more

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<v Speaker 9>volunteer organisations, support more charities and be even better than

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<v Speaker 9>it is today.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's small beer compared to what they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>get now. It's a, what, 20-fold increase. It's also worth

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<v Speaker 2>taking another look at the club's history because that's also unusual.

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<v Speaker 2>Now let's remind ourselves just how big this pocket of

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<v Speaker 2>green space in Sydney really is. Green space that's particularly

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<v Speaker 2>rare in an inner west suburb like Marrickville. So preserving

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<v Speaker 2>it presumably benefits every homeowner in close proximity. A few

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, the club president, Andrew Tai, noted that the

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<v Speaker 2>Marrickville Golf Club has never had a lease longer than

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<v Speaker 2>six months. But after a campaign involving Albanese, the club

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<v Speaker 2>landed itself a new 21-year lease deal, reported at the

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<v Speaker 2>time as the longest lease ever in the club's almost

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<v Speaker 2>80-year history. Well, how fortuitous for the Prime Minister that

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<v Speaker 2>the green space at the end of his street was

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<v Speaker 2>now protected. God forbid it might have been sold off

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<v Speaker 2>for social housing. Let's also look at some of the

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<v Speaker 2>club newsletters and annual reports. After that announcement in April

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<v Speaker 2>from the Prime Minister, that they would get this $ 6

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<v Speaker 2>million windfall from his government's invite-only slush fund. You'd think

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<v Speaker 2>a club chasing $ 6 million would have some idea about

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<v Speaker 2>what they might spend it on, wouldn't you? You'd think

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<v Speaker 2>if the project was orthodox, there would be well-developed plans

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<v Speaker 2>that costed project budgets. Think again. Here's a document from

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<v Speaker 2>the Inner West Council papers on their website. This is

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<v Speaker 2>from late May last year. And right there on the

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<v Speaker 2>agenda is a resolution to engage experts, to consult locals,

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<v Speaker 2>and then develop a plan to work up a project

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<v Speaker 2>on which to spend the club's $ 6 million grant. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>how fortuitous for the Barrickville Golf Club that they get

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<v Speaker 2>$ 6 million promised to them by Albanese before they even

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<v Speaker 2>know what they will do with it. How lucky for

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<v Speaker 2>them that Albanese is, in the words of his great

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<v Speaker 2>factional mate, the mayor, the club's most famous patron. This morning,

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<v Speaker 2>in an interview with my colleague Kieran Gilbert, there was

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<v Speaker 2>this nonsensical attempt by Labor power broker Stephen Conroy to

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<v Speaker 2>to explain away this funding grant. But the more he

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<v Speaker 2>tried to defend it, the more he got himself into trouble. First,

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<v Speaker 2>by trying to say this was just an election commitment

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<v Speaker 2>from Albanese, not an actual decision, Conroy ended up confirming

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<v Speaker 2>that election promises are made to be delivered.

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<v Speaker 8>Well, you know that you're going to deliver on the

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<v Speaker 8>election commitment because you've been elected. But counterfactual is the

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<v Speaker 8>Liberals would attack the Prime Minister, for failing to deliver

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<v Speaker 8>on his election commitment. So you've won the election. You

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<v Speaker 8>know you're going to give the grants. You're setting the

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<v Speaker 8>program up. There's absolutely nothing improper, nothing improper in saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 8>as promised before the election, we are going to deliver.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's my point exactly. Once it's announced by the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister, I mean, he's the boss of his own government,

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<v Speaker 2>that $ 6 million will go to his Marrickville Golf Club, well,

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<v Speaker 2>of course they're going to get the money. The idea

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<v Speaker 2>that the Minister signing off the cheque somehow makes her

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<v Speaker 2>decision is rubbish. Conroy just said once the promise is made,

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<v Speaker 2>it's on the government's head to deliver it. Catherine King

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<v Speaker 2>might not make the decision to fund the Marrickville Golf Club.

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<v Speaker 2>Albanese did six months earlier. King was just the minister

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<v Speaker 2>who executed it. Now, none of this washes away questions

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<v Speaker 2>that the prime minister still refuses to answer over his

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<v Speaker 2>clear conflicts of interest. And that's the crux of the

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<v Speaker 2>issue here. What was or was not disclosed by him

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<v Speaker 2>prior to the $ 6 million announcement in April last year?

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. And if he did declare his conflicts, homeowner,

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<v Speaker 2>club member, where's the evidence? This is what taxpayers are

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<v Speaker 2>entitled to know. Here's Stephen Connery again.

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<v Speaker 10>But he was the one who made the promise, so

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<v Speaker 10>it seems a bit contradictory. No, he was.

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<v Speaker 8>Campaigning as a local MP. The delivery of the promise.

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<v Speaker 8>promise is done via the department. So he's not the

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<v Speaker 8>decision maker. He's able to say, we got elected, I'm

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<v Speaker 8>now going to deliver, and the fund will be set

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<v Speaker 8>up to, you know, keep our election commitments. This is

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<v Speaker 8>completely different. And he's not the decision maker.

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<v Speaker 10>But a minister's hardly going to say, yeah, no, I

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<v Speaker 10>get that. But I mean, a minister's hardly going to say, sorry, boss.

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<v Speaker 10>You're not going to get that one. You promised it,

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:38.990
<v Speaker 10>but you're going to have it.

0:13:39.140 --> 0:13:40.380
<v Speaker 8>Well, I hope that they deliver it on.

0:13:40.380 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 10>It's not happening.

0:13:41.660 --> 0:13:43.510
<v Speaker 8>I hope that the minister deliver it on all the

0:13:43.550 --> 0:13:46.809
<v Speaker 8>election promises that were made. Otherwise, the Liberal Party would

0:13:46.850 --> 0:13:50.209
<v Speaker 8>be attacking the prime minister by breaking his word. They

0:13:50.290 --> 0:13:52.050
<v Speaker 8>can't have it both ways.

0:13:52.070 --> 0:13:56.339
<v Speaker 2>No, you can't have it both ways. The prime minister

0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 2>can't have it both ways. Albanese made this announcement. He

0:14:00.540 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 2>decided it. And his Marrickville Golf Club mates got the

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.340
<v Speaker 2>$ 6 million that they didn't even have a plan to spend.

0:14:07.980 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 2>You saw the video. They know the money was theirs.

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 2>Catherine King is factional, mate. Well, she just tidied up

0:14:15.260 --> 0:14:22.970
<v Speaker 2>the paperwork at the end. That's all. All right, let's

0:14:22.990 --> 0:14:25.630
<v Speaker 2>go to Canberra now for the headlines with Trudy McIntosh.

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 11>After a six-week delay, the Home Affairs Minister will finally

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.580
<v Speaker 11>reveal the details of Labor's migration changes at the press

0:14:32.620 --> 0:14:35.660
<v Speaker 11>club tomorrow. Cabinet ticked off on the overhaul to ensure

0:14:35.700 --> 0:14:39.510
<v Speaker 11>migration levels don't once again overshoot the government's own targets.

0:14:39.830 --> 0:14:41.090
<v Speaker 3>We need to make sure that we deal with the

0:14:41.150 --> 0:14:45.770
<v Speaker 3>numbers overall and do so in a sensible, targeted way.

0:14:45.950 --> 0:14:49.230
<v Speaker 12>Deeply sceptical about Labor's ability to deliver because for four

0:14:49.250 --> 0:14:50.370
<v Speaker 12>years they've failed to deliver.

0:14:50.590 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 5>I think some of this debate about immigration is overcooked.

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you could ask Australians... would you like less traffic?

0:14:57.740 --> 0:14:59.500
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of people want less traffic.

0:14:59.820 --> 0:15:02.340
<v Speaker 11>One Nation got in first with a bigger proposed cut

0:15:02.380 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 11>of $ 750, 000, including by slashing students bringing family members to Australia.

0:15:07.660 --> 0:15:11.090
<v Speaker 13>You can't have you doing an advanced course in hairdressing

0:15:11.110 --> 0:15:13.370
<v Speaker 13>with seven family members coming to follow you and all

0:15:13.690 --> 0:15:15.630
<v Speaker 13>deciding they're going to live in Bankstown. It's just not

0:15:15.650 --> 0:15:16.070
<v Speaker 13>going to work.

0:15:16.350 --> 0:15:19.610
<v Speaker 11>A new fight has erupted over copyright protections for Australian

0:15:19.710 --> 0:15:22.570
<v Speaker 11>creators amid big threats from AI giants.

0:15:22.590 --> 0:15:25.900
<v Speaker 5>The government is planning to upend copyright violations As we

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:26.180
<v Speaker 5>know it.

0:15:26.420 --> 0:15:29.470
<v Speaker 11>Leaked government documents show AI giants could be allowed to

0:15:29.510 --> 0:15:33.290
<v Speaker 11>hoover up Australian content for free unless creatives opt out,

0:15:33.670 --> 0:15:36.050
<v Speaker 11>as long as the companies strike enough deals with others.

0:15:36.410 --> 0:15:38.790
<v Speaker 2>Why should people have to opt out of having their

0:15:38.830 --> 0:15:39.670
<v Speaker 2>work stolen?

0:15:39.790 --> 0:15:41.430
<v Speaker 8>You should be paid for it. Someone just can't come

0:15:41.510 --> 0:15:43.010
<v Speaker 8>in and take it and use it.

0:15:43.330 --> 0:15:47.050
<v Speaker 11>Companies like OpenAI are playing hardball on copyright as they

0:15:47.090 --> 0:15:50.210
<v Speaker 11>dangle the carrot of big investment down under. The government

0:15:50.250 --> 0:15:52.130
<v Speaker 11>insists it can strike the right balance.

0:15:52.430 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 10>You know, we're not a country that should sit back

0:15:53.910 --> 0:15:56.610
<v Speaker 10>and and respond to threats like that.

0:15:56.730 --> 0:15:58.890
<v Speaker 11>Trudy McIntosh, News 24, Canberra.

0:15:58.910 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's bring in my panel now, News 24

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.780
<v Speaker 2>Senior Reporter Carolyn Marcus and Senior Fellow at the Menzies

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Research Centre, Nick Cater. Welcome to you both. I think

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.820
<v Speaker 2>my assessment this week is Labor's in real trouble, Nick Cater.

0:16:14.220 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 2>PM facing increasing pressure over this Marrickville Golf Club grant

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.190
<v Speaker 2>and The Age has reported that Jim Chalmers has had

0:16:21.210 --> 0:16:24.710
<v Speaker 2>a private meeting with colleagues trying to reassure them that

0:16:24.750 --> 0:16:27.550
<v Speaker 2>he knows what he's doing as they're getting more and

0:16:27.570 --> 0:16:29.350
<v Speaker 2>more worried about the state of the economy. We know,

0:16:29.390 --> 0:16:32.930
<v Speaker 2>of course, there's talk of another interest rate rise in

0:16:32.990 --> 0:16:35.900
<v Speaker 2>coming days. What's your assessment?

0:16:37.890 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I think they're in an enormous amount of trouble, Peter.

0:16:40.420 --> 0:16:45.430
<v Speaker 1>Anthony Albanese, his own personal problems going to his integrity

0:16:45.610 --> 0:16:48.990
<v Speaker 1>and his honesty once again are under question and that

0:16:49.050 --> 0:16:52.570
<v Speaker 1>comes after... poll earlier this week, which showed that two

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.130
<v Speaker 1>thirds of the country or thereabouts don't trust the prime minister,

0:16:56.370 --> 0:17:00.150
<v Speaker 1>don't trust their prime minister. That's a serious problem. But

0:17:00.210 --> 0:17:04.890
<v Speaker 1>underlying that, of course, are these enormous structural problems with

0:17:04.930 --> 0:17:08.739
<v Speaker 1>the economy, which have worsened considerably under this government. They

0:17:08.780 --> 0:17:12.419
<v Speaker 1>came to power without any real awareness, it seems to me,

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.640
<v Speaker 1>of what the needs of this country were, which were

0:17:15.340 --> 0:17:22.890
<v Speaker 1>improved productivity and growth, restore the intergenerational compact that says

0:17:22.930 --> 0:17:25.530
<v Speaker 1>that the next generation will be better off than this one.

0:17:25.869 --> 0:17:30.149
<v Speaker 1>They haven't done that. We're going backwards. Every economic measure

0:17:30.650 --> 0:17:34.610
<v Speaker 1>you look at is deeply depressing at the moment. So

0:17:34.810 --> 0:17:37.470
<v Speaker 1>I think that they are in enormous trouble, not just

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.859
<v Speaker 1>the superficial stuff. over the Anthony Albanese and his honesty,

0:17:43.420 --> 0:17:48.000
<v Speaker 1>but over fundamental policy questions which are driving this country

0:17:48.340 --> 0:17:50.240
<v Speaker 1>in the wrong direction very fast.

0:17:52.180 --> 0:17:55.190
<v Speaker 2>And we'll get to, obviously, the announcements tomorrow in relation

0:17:55.210 --> 0:17:58.350
<v Speaker 2>to migration, because migration is an economic issue as much

0:17:58.369 --> 0:18:01.590
<v Speaker 2>as it is a cultural issue. Yesterday, Rhys Muldoon sacked

0:18:01.619 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 2>from his role as a Labor staffer after those degrading

0:18:04.940 --> 0:18:08.379
<v Speaker 2>online comments. Well, reported today, he's also been stripped of

0:18:08.420 --> 0:18:12.219
<v Speaker 2>his role as an Australia Day ambassador. Here was the

0:18:12.260 --> 0:18:14.669
<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister today asked about his mate.

0:18:15.869 --> 0:18:19.430
<v Speaker 9>It is not appropriate for him to be an ambassador.

0:18:19.970 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 13>I find his comments outrageous and completely unacceptable.

0:18:25.850 --> 0:18:27.389
<v Speaker 2>Well, sure, Caroline, I think we all do, but the

0:18:27.410 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>PM's refused to answer questions today as to whether he's

0:18:30.619 --> 0:18:36.500
<v Speaker 2>given Mull, whether he's given him a reference for any

0:18:36.540 --> 0:18:38.389
<v Speaker 2>of these jobs he's had, didn't he?

0:18:39.220 --> 0:18:41.160
<v Speaker 7>And I think that tells you everything, Peter.

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.700
<v Speaker 14>He was asked by the Coalition's Tony Passon twice whether

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 14>he'd given this bloke any references, and he didn't answer

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.740
<v Speaker 14>the question directly. He at first tried to blame a

0:18:51.260 --> 0:18:55.570
<v Speaker 14>previous Coalition government for appointing Rhys Muldoon as an Australia

0:18:55.609 --> 0:18:58.750
<v Speaker 14>Day ambassador. That turned out to be false, apparently. It

0:18:58.990 --> 0:19:01.670
<v Speaker 14>was the Gillard government that appointed him. It didn't really

0:19:01.690 --> 0:19:07.350
<v Speaker 14>quite make sense. This guy's always been very anti-Coalition, anti-Murdoch, anti-right-wing.

0:19:07.390 --> 0:19:10.649
<v Speaker 14>I've come across him before on X. He's prolific, and

0:19:10.670 --> 0:19:13.330
<v Speaker 14>I never realised the roles that he had had.

0:19:13.390 --> 0:19:16.750
<v Speaker 7>He's just... He was a troll. He is a troll.

0:19:16.850 --> 0:19:19.020
<v Speaker 14>I'm surprised he was ever offered a job in the

0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.060
<v Speaker 14>first place, but when you look at the fact that

0:19:22.100 --> 0:19:24.800
<v Speaker 14>the front page today in Sydney of The Daily Telegraph

0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.440
<v Speaker 14>showing him kissing Albanese on the cheek, when you look

0:19:28.460 --> 0:19:30.540
<v Speaker 14>at the fact that he was on the invite list

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:35.220
<v Speaker 14>to Albanese's very intimate wedding, only 70 guests last year...

0:19:35.500 --> 0:19:37.699
<v Speaker 14>Things start to add up a little bit as to

0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.510
<v Speaker 14>how this guy may have landed the gigs that he did.

0:19:40.950 --> 0:19:43.190
<v Speaker 14>It's shameful because it wouldn't have taken more than a

0:19:43.250 --> 0:19:45.449
<v Speaker 14>few minutes to look at his ex-history.

0:19:45.490 --> 0:19:48.330
<v Speaker 7>I'm sure they were aware that he was posting this

0:19:48.490 --> 0:19:49.859
<v Speaker 7>vile stuff about you.

0:19:50.270 --> 0:19:55.119
<v Speaker 14>About Jacinta Nampajimpa Price, about many people, especially women on

0:19:55.150 --> 0:19:58.100
<v Speaker 14>the right and men on the right as well. So

0:19:58.300 --> 0:20:00.660
<v Speaker 14>how he ended up in these positions in the first

0:20:00.700 --> 0:20:04.440
<v Speaker 14>place is something that the prime minister should answer for,

0:20:04.780 --> 0:20:05.359
<v Speaker 14>quite frankly.

0:20:07.140 --> 0:20:09.859
<v Speaker 2>Enough said about a shocking individual. Let's go to the

0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.379
<v Speaker 2>modelling out today that says Australia's got no chance of

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.419
<v Speaker 2>meeting Labor's ambitious energy target of 82% renewables by the

0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 2>end of the decade and not long away from that decade. Indeed,

0:20:20.070 --> 0:20:22.970
<v Speaker 2>if we're lucky, we're only going to get to 53%

0:20:22.970 --> 0:20:25.190
<v Speaker 2>and that's based on the number of projects being built

0:20:25.450 --> 0:20:28.449
<v Speaker 2>as at June 30 this year. This is the reality

0:20:28.470 --> 0:20:31.369
<v Speaker 2>we've all talked about, Nick, for some time, but a

0:20:31.410 --> 0:20:33.330
<v Speaker 2>fair amount of egg on Bowen's face ahead of that

0:20:33.410 --> 0:20:34.550
<v Speaker 2>COP conference, surely?

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:42.570
<v Speaker 1>Well, we've been talking about this since December 2021 when

0:20:42.609 --> 0:20:45.990
<v Speaker 1>they first announced this policy and this target. It's impossible

0:20:46.030 --> 0:20:47.690
<v Speaker 1>to meet, but of course you can do a lot

0:20:47.730 --> 0:20:50.770
<v Speaker 1>of damage trying to meet it, and that's exactly what

0:20:50.790 --> 0:20:55.159
<v Speaker 1>he's done. He is running into serious problems with the

0:20:55.220 --> 0:20:57.740
<v Speaker 1>COP conference, but that's the least of his worries. I mean,

0:20:57.780 --> 0:21:00.480
<v Speaker 1>we've got the country now with an electricity system which

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>is a quarter built, which is not going to be

0:21:03.060 --> 0:21:06.050
<v Speaker 1>completed in any time soon. And if it is, it's

0:21:06.090 --> 0:21:09.490
<v Speaker 1>not going to be stable enough or reliable enough to

0:21:09.550 --> 0:21:12.190
<v Speaker 1>power the economy as it is, let alone with all

0:21:12.230 --> 0:21:15.830
<v Speaker 1>the extra demands for store, you know, dead data storage

0:21:15.890 --> 0:21:19.389
<v Speaker 1>and processing and so forth. It is a total disaster.

0:21:19.430 --> 0:21:22.370
<v Speaker 1>And it's so central to the economy, as Chris put

0:21:22.670 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the point that Chris Allman is always making on this show,

0:21:25.820 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 1>that it is adding to that that fundamental miscalculation of

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.270
<v Speaker 1>this government on the economy itself. which I think puts

0:21:33.330 --> 0:21:35.230
<v Speaker 1>us in a worse position than we've certainly been in

0:21:35.270 --> 0:21:35.970
<v Speaker 1>my lifetime.

0:21:37.910 --> 0:21:39.930
<v Speaker 2>Let's go to the announcement tomorrow that will be made

0:21:39.990 --> 0:21:43.420
<v Speaker 2>by Tony Burke, Home Affairs Minister at the Press Club,

0:21:43.859 --> 0:21:46.180
<v Speaker 2>a postpone from a couple of months ago, which shows

0:21:46.300 --> 0:21:48.619
<v Speaker 2>clearly that he's had a A lot of trouble internally

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.820
<v Speaker 2>getting the policy through. We don't know what he originally proposed,

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.120
<v Speaker 2>but it sort of landed around numbers that have been

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.830
<v Speaker 2>put out today in terms of net overseas migration, taking

0:21:58.869 --> 0:21:59.850
<v Speaker 2>it from 300,000 in 2025 to a target of 245,000

0:21:59.850 --> 0:22:12.090
<v Speaker 2>in 26-27. and to 225,000 per year going forward. Well,

0:22:12.470 --> 0:22:14.270
<v Speaker 2>I believe it when I see it, Labor's never landed

0:22:14.410 --> 0:22:18.450
<v Speaker 2>any of those numbers. This will be interesting tomorrow. Now,

0:22:18.470 --> 0:22:21.770
<v Speaker 2>I will make the point with that number of 225,000, Caroline,

0:22:22.330 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 2>that's just about 100,000 more than the long-term average of

0:22:27.859 --> 0:22:32.340
<v Speaker 2>the Howard government. So it's still record high migration if

0:22:32.420 --> 0:22:35.459
<v Speaker 2>they get those numbers. That's a big if. But all

0:22:35.500 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the way along here, The agenda has been set by

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.300
<v Speaker 2>One Nation. So the government's finally had to come to

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.240
<v Speaker 2>the table, at least putting a policy out there. We

0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>had very little from Labor at the last election. They're

0:22:47.980 --> 0:22:50.180
<v Speaker 2>not pushed by the coalition at all. We've got no

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.870
<v Speaker 2>policy from the coalition. This has been One Nation driving

0:22:53.890 --> 0:22:56.690
<v Speaker 2>the immigration debate and it's driving it on the back

0:22:56.869 --> 0:22:59.790
<v Speaker 2>of the polls and that's what's spooking Labor.

0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 14>They're spooked, but even if they were to meet these targets, which,

0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 14>as you point out, is, given their past record, highly unlikely,

0:23:09.510 --> 0:23:13.409
<v Speaker 14>they're not lowering it nearly enough. I mean, under a

0:23:13.530 --> 0:23:17.629
<v Speaker 14>one-nation policy, the numbers show that it would be capped.

0:23:17.230 --> 0:23:18.350
<v Speaker 7>At about 130,000, which is almost 100,000 lower than what

0:23:18.369 --> 0:23:24.910
<v Speaker 7>Labor's policy is. is going to be.

0:23:24.990 --> 0:23:28.710
<v Speaker 14>So why would any voter look at what Labor puts

0:23:28.890 --> 0:23:31.609
<v Speaker 14>up and think, well, this is where I should park

0:23:31.670 --> 0:23:37.000
<v Speaker 14>my vote if my number one concern is high immigration

0:23:37.100 --> 0:23:41.440
<v Speaker 14>and how that impacts our economy, how it impacts housing supply?

0:23:41.660 --> 0:23:45.780
<v Speaker 14>While we haven't seen what the Coalition's immigration policy is,

0:23:45.820 --> 0:23:48.630
<v Speaker 14>and they frankly need to hurry up on that, we

0:23:48.670 --> 0:23:49.389
<v Speaker 14>do know that.

0:23:49.390 --> 0:23:51.090
<v Speaker 7>Angus Taylor, the opposition leader.

0:23:51.950 --> 0:23:57.070
<v Speaker 14>had meetings with Albanese last week and he told him

0:23:57.230 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 14>in a letter, a published letter, that it needs to

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:05.920
<v Speaker 14>be lower than 170,000 to be able to deal with

0:24:06.140 --> 0:24:09.000
<v Speaker 14>the housing supply. That would be the amount of buildings

0:24:09.060 --> 0:24:12.090
<v Speaker 14>that could cater for this number of people coming in.

0:24:12.470 --> 0:24:14.909
<v Speaker 14>So I think they need to revisit that number if

0:24:14.950 --> 0:24:17.330
<v Speaker 14>they want to have a strong chance at the next

0:24:17.430 --> 0:24:20.310
<v Speaker 14>election because, as you say, every poll has shown that

0:24:20.350 --> 0:24:23.129
<v Speaker 14>immigration is the number one concern or at least one

0:24:23.150 --> 0:24:26.210
<v Speaker 14>of the number one top concerns for voters.

0:24:27.970 --> 0:24:29.710
<v Speaker 2>One thing I am happy to say, I've been asking

0:24:29.750 --> 0:24:32.429
<v Speaker 2>for a good decade to have a debate about migration.

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.780
<v Speaker 2>It's an issue that crosses right across the electorate. Country

0:24:35.940 --> 0:24:39.070
<v Speaker 2>and city people want this debate. We're finally having it.

0:24:39.580 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 2>So let's bring it on. Thank you to you both.

0:24:42.030 --> 0:24:44.389
<v Speaker 2>Let's go down to concerns raised by veteran public servant

0:24:44.410 --> 0:24:48.070
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Richardson, who abruptly quit his role as special adviser

0:24:48.109 --> 0:24:52.250
<v Speaker 2>to the Anti-Semitism Royal Commission in March. In a speech

0:24:52.369 --> 0:24:56.570
<v Speaker 2>for the Lowy Institute, Richardson warned political correctness was shutting

0:24:56.609 --> 0:24:59.250
<v Speaker 2>down important national security debates.

0:25:00.450 --> 0:25:03.750
<v Speaker 13>If people who are here who have never been to

0:25:03.790 --> 0:25:06.590
<v Speaker 13>a Jewish school, you've got to go to a Jewish school.

0:25:07.790 --> 0:25:10.450
<v Speaker 13>Because I'll tell you what, if you go to a

0:25:10.470 --> 0:25:13.790
<v Speaker 13>Jewish school, you'll think you're in the middle of Beirut

0:25:14.750 --> 0:25:16.850
<v Speaker 13>or you'll think you're in a part of the world

0:25:17.170 --> 0:25:20.830
<v Speaker 13>that you've never experienced before. Why weren't there journalists out

0:25:20.910 --> 0:25:26.160
<v Speaker 13>there visiting Jewish schools and reporting on what was happening

0:25:26.540 --> 0:25:31.119
<v Speaker 13>in our country? You don't address anything and you don't

0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:37.100
<v Speaker 13>deal with the issues by pretending they're not there and

0:25:37.180 --> 0:25:40.980
<v Speaker 13>by not reporting things because it may give rise to

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:41.940
<v Speaker 13>social tension.

0:25:43.700 --> 0:25:46.850
<v Speaker 2>All right, just to give you a sense of his credentials,

0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.810
<v Speaker 2>former diplomat, former Australian ambassador, of course, to the United States,

0:25:50.250 --> 0:25:53.410
<v Speaker 2>former head of the Defence Department, former head of ASIO,

0:25:53.470 --> 0:25:57.810
<v Speaker 2>our domestic intelligence agency, former head of the Foreign Affairs Department.

0:25:58.650 --> 0:26:01.409
<v Speaker 2>As I say, veteran public servant. We're underlining that, aren't we?

0:26:01.910 --> 0:26:04.429
<v Speaker 2>Bringing him now. Dennis Richardson, thank you for coming on

0:26:04.450 --> 0:26:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the program. Terrific speech last night. And I played a

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:10.899
<v Speaker 2>little bit of the Q &amp; A there because I

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.320
<v Speaker 2>think you really took the room to task, as you should.

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:16.560
<v Speaker 2>So how do we have a debate in this country

0:26:17.100 --> 0:26:22.320
<v Speaker 2>about radical Islam and extremism in the current political environment?

0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:29.489
<v Speaker 13>Well, I think, Peter, first of all, obviously we've got

0:26:29.510 --> 0:26:33.250
<v Speaker 13>to do it in a way in which Australian Muslims

0:26:33.330 --> 0:26:36.770
<v Speaker 13>do not feel as a whole that they're being targeted.

0:26:38.260 --> 0:26:45.419
<v Speaker 13>I think it's important that mainstream Muslim leaders be involved

0:26:45.859 --> 0:26:49.980
<v Speaker 13>in the discussion. I think that can be done. You

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:57.480
<v Speaker 13>have active discussion in a country like Indonesia about the

0:26:57.540 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 13>role of Islam. You've had open discussions in other countries

0:27:04.350 --> 0:27:08.590
<v Speaker 13>about the role of religion in politics. such as in Ireland.

0:27:09.930 --> 0:27:13.830
<v Speaker 13>And in Australia in the past, we have discussed some

0:27:13.869 --> 0:27:21.250
<v Speaker 13>pretty difficult issues publicly which involve religious institutions. I'm not

0:27:21.310 --> 0:27:28.480
<v Speaker 13>in any way saying they are of equal significance. They're very,

0:27:28.540 --> 0:27:33.220
<v Speaker 13>very different issues. But you look at Child Sexual Abuse

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:38.420
<v Speaker 13>Royal Commission involving the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church and

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:43.290
<v Speaker 13>other organisations of that kind. So as a country, we

0:27:43.350 --> 0:27:49.050
<v Speaker 13>have shown that we are able to discuss openly and

0:27:49.170 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 13>sensibly pretty sensitive issues.

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:55.540
<v Speaker 2>So I agree with that and I agree with the

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.199
<v Speaker 2>examples you cite there. But the issue is, excuse me,

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>the Muslim leaders are not at the table. They're not

0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:05.560
<v Speaker 2>putting themselves at the table. At any opportunity, Dennis, they

0:28:05.619 --> 0:28:08.210
<v Speaker 2>could have come out and held a press conference or

0:28:08.369 --> 0:28:14.290
<v Speaker 2>issued statements of condemnation in relation to hate speeches, what

0:28:14.330 --> 0:28:17.670
<v Speaker 2>we saw out at Lakemba on the night of October 7,

0:28:17.670 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 2>the great celebration, said some, what was happening on the

0:28:21.300 --> 0:28:24.359
<v Speaker 2>steps of the Opera House. I mean, they are absent

0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 2>from the debate. That's a big part of the problem.

0:28:29.150 --> 0:28:32.830
<v Speaker 13>Yeah, I had a meeting quite some years ago when

0:28:32.869 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 13>I was in ASIO. I spent a Saturday with Islamic

0:28:37.660 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 13>community leaders from around the country. And you do get

0:28:41.820 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 13>a mix of views, as you should get. But one

0:28:46.540 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 13>of the community leaders asked me quite a devastating question.

0:28:51.660 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 13>He said to me, how does my community prove that

0:28:56.100 --> 0:29:00.250
<v Speaker 13>we are loyal Australians? And I said, well, I've failed

0:29:00.290 --> 0:29:03.990
<v Speaker 13>in my job and others have failed in theirs if

0:29:04.050 --> 0:29:09.000
<v Speaker 13>you feel it necessary to ask that question. So there's

0:29:09.060 --> 0:29:13.940
<v Speaker 13>a variety of reasons why Islamic leaders may not come forward.

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:19.590
<v Speaker 13>I think most Islamic leaders... Dennis, that's a cop-out.

0:29:19.610 --> 0:29:22.630
<v Speaker 2>Dennis, that is such a cop-out. It is.

0:29:23.250 --> 0:29:29.430
<v Speaker 13>Most Islamic leaders in this country do, in fact, have

0:29:29.490 --> 0:29:38.350
<v Speaker 13>concern about Islamists in terms of their attitude towards government

0:29:38.490 --> 0:29:42.470
<v Speaker 13>and religion. That needs to be approached in a sensible way.

0:29:42.490 --> 0:29:46.820
<v Speaker 13>They did issue statements after Bondi. After 15 people were dead, Dennis.

0:29:51.650 --> 0:29:53.850
<v Speaker 2>But where were they for the three years earlier than that?

0:29:54.230 --> 0:29:56.730
<v Speaker 2>They were celebrating. A lot of these leaders were celebrating

0:29:56.750 --> 0:29:58.050
<v Speaker 2>the events of October 7th.

0:29:58.310 --> 0:29:58.650
<v Speaker 13>Not a lot.

0:29:58.690 --> 0:29:59.850
<v Speaker 2>And they were cheering on.

0:29:59.870 --> 0:30:04.190
<v Speaker 13>Not a lot. A very small minority. A very small minority.

0:30:04.210 --> 0:30:07.690
<v Speaker 2>The problem is they are absent from the debate. We

0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.300
<v Speaker 2>do not have to invite the Catholic Archbishops to get

0:30:10.340 --> 0:30:15.060
<v Speaker 2>out there and condemn this day and age child sexual abuse. Right?

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.260
<v Speaker 2>We don't have to do that. And we should not

0:30:17.300 --> 0:30:20.050
<v Speaker 2>have to do that. This should be something that if

0:30:20.070 --> 0:30:22.480
<v Speaker 2>you want to call yourself an Islamic leader in Australia,

0:30:22.780 --> 0:30:24.700
<v Speaker 2>that you come out and say this is not the

0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:28.140
<v Speaker 2>Australian way. That's the problem that we have in this country.

0:30:28.890 --> 0:30:31.190
<v Speaker 2>I think there is not enough good Muslim people, if

0:30:31.230 --> 0:30:34.430
<v Speaker 2>we can call that phrase, getting out there and decrying

0:30:34.450 --> 0:30:38.330
<v Speaker 2>the radical elements. I interviewed a Muslim academic out of

0:30:38.350 --> 0:30:41.950
<v Speaker 2>the UAE, a political strategist to the government, and he

0:30:41.990 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 2>said the problem in Australia is that you won't ban

0:30:45.060 --> 0:30:48.640
<v Speaker 2>the Muslim Brotherhood. You don't crack down on the radical

0:30:48.780 --> 0:30:52.460
<v Speaker 2>elements like we do in the UAE. I look at

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Saudi Arabia and other countries too that stamp out the

0:30:56.540 --> 0:31:00.080
<v Speaker 2>terrorism elements. Are we not doing enough? Muslim leaders say

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:01.180
<v Speaker 2>we're not overseas.

0:31:03.740 --> 0:31:08.130
<v Speaker 13>Well, I don't know. I think our law enforcement and

0:31:08.170 --> 0:31:16.390
<v Speaker 13>security agencies would in fact disagree with that. In what way? Well,

0:31:16.470 --> 0:31:18.030
<v Speaker 13>if you look at the number of people who have

0:31:18.070 --> 0:31:25.070
<v Speaker 13>been imprisoned in Australia for terrorism-related offences, I think it

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:30.470
<v Speaker 13>speaks for itself. But how you engage a community is important.

0:31:31.210 --> 0:31:35.430
<v Speaker 13>You can't engage a community by browbeating them and making

0:31:35.470 --> 0:31:39.650
<v Speaker 13>them feel on the defensive from the word go. You

0:31:39.710 --> 0:31:42.930
<v Speaker 13>need to approach that somewhat differently.

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I think the Jews would say that there is time

0:31:47.220 --> 0:31:51.770
<v Speaker 2>for talk and there is time for action. And after Bondi,

0:31:51.810 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>we're in the time for action. I mean, I've spoken

0:31:54.910 --> 0:31:57.060
<v Speaker 2>to a lot of people in the law enforcement space.

0:31:57.160 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 2>I've read reports from whistleblowers. They say that there is

0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:03.220
<v Speaker 2>not enough resourcing for counterterrorism. They say that they're not

0:32:03.340 --> 0:32:07.020
<v Speaker 2>able to keep Australians safe. I spoke to Mike Pozzuolo

0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:11.010
<v Speaker 2>just last night, who is concerned in that speech made

0:32:11.090 --> 0:32:16.270
<v Speaker 2>by your ASIO successor, Mike Burgess, on Friday, that we've

0:32:16.310 --> 0:32:19.270
<v Speaker 2>had an elevation of terror plots that have had to

0:32:19.310 --> 0:32:22.590
<v Speaker 2>be disrupted. I mean, we're in very difficult times, Dennis.

0:32:24.630 --> 0:32:29.150
<v Speaker 13>Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, there's no debating that.

0:32:30.580 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 13>Bondi was simply horrific. And what Mike said the other

0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:42.300
<v Speaker 13>day about stopping further attacks since then is really worrying.

0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:47.980
<v Speaker 13>And I certainly hope that law enforcement and the security

0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:53.530
<v Speaker 13>agencies have moved more resources into counter-terrorism, as they can

0:32:54.490 --> 0:32:55.330
<v Speaker 13>if they need to.

0:32:57.190 --> 0:32:59.050
<v Speaker 2>Previously in the past, and I'll finish on this question,

0:32:59.090 --> 0:33:01.750
<v Speaker 2>previously in the past we've had a multitude of royal

0:33:01.790 --> 0:33:04.830
<v Speaker 2>commissions where prime ministers have appeared or former prime ministers

0:33:04.990 --> 0:33:08.880
<v Speaker 2>as well, obviously ministers, and you well understand the principle

0:33:08.900 --> 0:33:12.720
<v Speaker 2>of responsible government. Why do you think there's not been

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:17.260
<v Speaker 2>any public hearings attended to where evidence is given by

0:33:17.300 --> 0:33:22.140
<v Speaker 2>the prime minister or ministers that who had direct responsibility

0:33:22.650 --> 0:33:26.350
<v Speaker 2>for portfolios that were at the front line last December.

0:33:27.270 --> 0:33:27.990
<v Speaker 2>That's not good enough.

0:33:28.030 --> 0:33:33.820
<v Speaker 13>Well, that's a decision for the Royal Commissioner and I

0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.240
<v Speaker 13>think you've got to wait for the Commission's report to

0:33:37.300 --> 0:33:41.100
<v Speaker 13>come out before you start making too many judgments about it.

0:33:41.500 --> 0:33:47.110
<v Speaker 13>The Commission has already served a very enormous public service

0:33:47.990 --> 0:33:55.970
<v Speaker 13>by highlighting... the environment in which Australian Jewish people have

0:33:56.030 --> 0:34:01.330
<v Speaker 13>lived for quite some years, but particularly since the 7th

0:34:01.370 --> 0:34:04.990
<v Speaker 13>of October, 23. I think the Royal Commission has done

0:34:05.010 --> 0:34:09.870
<v Speaker 13>an excellent job of that. Now, how far it goes

0:34:09.950 --> 0:34:13.350
<v Speaker 13>in other areas, we'll need to wait and see its report.

0:34:15.130 --> 0:34:17.860
<v Speaker 2>It's not just, though, supposed to be a record of

0:34:18.340 --> 0:34:22.700
<v Speaker 2>emotional harrowing testimony, which it has been from survivors, and

0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:26.400
<v Speaker 2>I agree that is very important, Dennis. It's not just

0:34:27.140 --> 0:34:29.480
<v Speaker 2>meant to be a record of Bondi, though. It's supposed

0:34:29.500 --> 0:34:32.569
<v Speaker 2>to help us prevent a terror attack like it occurring

0:34:32.590 --> 0:34:35.009
<v Speaker 2>in the future. How can we have the head of

0:34:35.090 --> 0:34:39.589
<v Speaker 2>Netball Australia give evidence to the Royal Commission but not

0:34:39.630 --> 0:34:41.950
<v Speaker 2>the head of the Australian Federal Police?

0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:46.529
<v Speaker 13>Well, you had the head of, well, I don't know

0:34:46.610 --> 0:34:50.270
<v Speaker 13>what the decision making was in terms of the head

0:34:50.290 --> 0:34:54.839
<v Speaker 13>of the AFP. Certainly the head of ASIO appeared. Certainly

0:34:54.940 --> 0:34:59.700
<v Speaker 13>senior police officers appeared from New South Wales. There was

0:34:59.780 --> 0:35:05.710
<v Speaker 13>an interim report, part of which was classified. I imagine

0:35:06.190 --> 0:35:11.489
<v Speaker 13>that part of the Royal Commission's final report during December

0:35:11.850 --> 0:35:16.510
<v Speaker 13>will be classified. And I imagine that those classified elements

0:35:16.910 --> 0:35:21.540
<v Speaker 13>will go to important aspects of how security and law

0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:23.500
<v Speaker 13>enforcement are working together.

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:30.900
<v Speaker 2>I hope your optimism is the result, that it's fruitful.

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.890
<v Speaker 13>No, I'm not being optimistic. Thank you, Peter.

0:35:36.469 --> 0:35:37.419
<v Speaker 2>All right, well, we'll see.

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:38.880
<v Speaker 13>I'm not optimistic.

0:35:39.540 --> 0:35:42.360
<v Speaker 2>After the break, Ben Carroll's I Don't Hold A Hose

0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:46.260
<v Speaker 2>Mate moment as yet another Victorian's killed on the roads

0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:49.260
<v Speaker 2>that are, by far and away in Victoria, the worst

0:35:49.469 --> 0:35:54.250
<v Speaker 2>in our country. Plus Labor's dodgy 40-year lotto deal. The

0:35:54.290 --> 0:36:02.850
<v Speaker 2>Auditor-General's report's out. Jess Wilson coming up. Welcome back. Coming

0:36:02.890 --> 0:36:05.570
<v Speaker 2>out more in the golf grant scandal from a former

0:36:05.610 --> 0:36:09.320
<v Speaker 2>minister who lost her job for far less. But first,

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:11.900
<v Speaker 2>you remember the moment that basically killed off Scott Morrison's

0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:16.200
<v Speaker 2>credibility with voters in Australia when we battled those fierce

0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:17.680
<v Speaker 2>bushfires in the summer of 2019, 2020.

0:36:17.660 --> 0:36:22.509
<v Speaker 10>They know that, you know, I don't hold a hose, mate,

0:36:22.590 --> 0:36:24.969
<v Speaker 10>and I don't sit in the control room. That's the

0:36:25.010 --> 0:36:26.609
<v Speaker 10>brave people who do that are doing that job.

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.180
<v Speaker 2>Yep, it was a line that haunted him for his

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>entire time afterwards as PM. And this should be the

0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:38.370
<v Speaker 2>response too from Victorians after comments from the Premier yesterday

0:36:38.489 --> 0:36:41.970
<v Speaker 2>responding to the tragic weekend death of a motorbike rider

0:36:42.010 --> 0:36:45.690
<v Speaker 2>on a highway that's been ripped apart by potholes and

0:36:45.750 --> 0:36:46.730
<v Speaker 2>road damage.

0:36:47.430 --> 0:36:50.890
<v Speaker 10>We've committed to remove half a million. The opposition have

0:36:50.930 --> 0:36:53.880
<v Speaker 10>committed to remove half of that. I'm the Premier, not

0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:54.840
<v Speaker 10>the Roads Minister.

0:36:54.860 --> 0:36:59.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm the Premier, he says, not the Roads Minister. Well,

0:36:59.060 --> 0:37:02.180
<v Speaker 2>joining me now, somebody who wants his job, Opposition Leader

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Jess Wilson. Well, first up, yep, sure, he's a Premier,

0:37:04.739 --> 0:37:06.759
<v Speaker 2>but that means the buck stops with you, mate. But

0:37:06.780 --> 0:37:09.940
<v Speaker 2>he also was the Roads Minister, if I'm not correct. Well,

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:10.660
<v Speaker 2>that's right.

0:37:11.050 --> 0:37:13.730
<v Speaker 15>In Ben Carroll's case, he actually did hold the hose

0:37:13.850 --> 0:37:16.450
<v Speaker 15>because he was the Minister for Roads. And when he

0:37:16.489 --> 0:37:20.770
<v Speaker 15>was the Minister, he cut $ 200 million from the Roads budget.

0:37:21.390 --> 0:37:24.609
<v Speaker 15>So that was when the rot set in and now

0:37:24.650 --> 0:37:28.350
<v Speaker 15>we have unsafe roads right across this state. My heart

0:37:28.410 --> 0:37:31.170
<v Speaker 15>goes out to Peter Mason's family because when he went

0:37:31.210 --> 0:37:33.810
<v Speaker 15>out for a ride on Sunday afternoon with his mate,

0:37:34.469 --> 0:37:37.820
<v Speaker 15>he should have come home. He deserved so much better

0:37:38.030 --> 0:37:42.130
<v Speaker 15>from his government to get the basics right. And to

0:37:42.170 --> 0:37:44.810
<v Speaker 15>be honest, the buck does stop with Ben Carroll. He's

0:37:44.850 --> 0:37:48.279
<v Speaker 15>the Premier. To say it doesn't, it isn't leadership and

0:37:48.420 --> 0:37:50.280
<v Speaker 15>I want to be a very different type of Premier

0:37:50.340 --> 0:37:53.239
<v Speaker 15>where the buck will always stop with me and I

0:37:53.260 --> 0:37:56.120
<v Speaker 15>will take responsibility for the good and the bad, but

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.520
<v Speaker 15>I will also focus on getting the basics right and

0:37:58.580 --> 0:37:59.320
<v Speaker 15>fixing our roads.

0:38:00.060 --> 0:38:02.219
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting, I get a lot of viewer feedback from

0:38:02.260 --> 0:38:04.649
<v Speaker 2>around the country and people interstate can't believe we're having

0:38:04.670 --> 0:38:08.730
<v Speaker 2>a conversation about roads and potholes. It's so topical in

0:38:08.770 --> 0:38:11.560
<v Speaker 2>a state election where a state's got a multitude of

0:38:11.620 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>problems before it. And they say to me, look, Victoria's

0:38:14.460 --> 0:38:16.900
<v Speaker 2>a really little state. How could your roads not be

0:38:16.940 --> 0:38:20.620
<v Speaker 2>well funded given the population size? But this is right

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:23.290
<v Speaker 2>across the board, and there's been reports recently to say

0:38:23.310 --> 0:38:26.670
<v Speaker 2>that they're just fundamentally in trouble. How can you fix that?

0:38:26.690 --> 0:38:27.810
<v Speaker 2>How can you afford it?

0:38:27.989 --> 0:38:31.089
<v Speaker 15>The Auditor-General said last week that nearly half of all

0:38:31.130 --> 0:38:35.029
<v Speaker 15>Victorian roads are in poor or very poor condition, and

0:38:35.090 --> 0:38:38.620
<v Speaker 15>that has been an increase from 31% just a few

0:38:38.660 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 15>years ago.

0:38:39.140 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 12>Mm.

0:38:39.810 --> 0:38:43.370
<v Speaker 15>We're investing $ 5 billion as a starting point to actually

0:38:43.430 --> 0:38:48.090
<v Speaker 15>repair and rebuild Victorian roads. We can't patch potholes because

0:38:48.110 --> 0:38:51.480
<v Speaker 15>they just come back again, and that's Labor's approach. You know,

0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 15>five minutes before midnight before an election, we're hearing Ben

0:38:54.100 --> 0:38:57.100
<v Speaker 15>Carroll suddenly say that they're going to fix 500,000 potholes

0:38:57.340 --> 0:39:00.819
<v Speaker 15>and put more, yeah, hundreds of millions of dollars in.

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:03.580
<v Speaker 15>But they're the very people who let the roads get

0:39:03.620 --> 0:39:06.310
<v Speaker 15>into this poor and very poor condition in the first place.

0:39:06.350 --> 0:39:08.089
<v Speaker 15>You just cannot trust them to fix them.

0:39:08.489 --> 0:39:10.779
<v Speaker 2>But I will. Well, what about the patch job on

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.399
<v Speaker 2>the budget with that lotto deal? What have we learned

0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:15.820
<v Speaker 2>out today from the Auditor-General?

0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:19.440
<v Speaker 15>Another report from the Auditor-General today that shows that this

0:39:19.500 --> 0:39:22.510
<v Speaker 15>is such a desperate government that they did this 40-year

0:39:22.550 --> 0:39:26.750
<v Speaker 15>extension of the lotto deal here in Victoria, potentially lost

0:39:26.750 --> 0:39:29.790
<v Speaker 15>$ 200 million that could have come to the taxpayer from

0:39:29.830 --> 0:39:33.390
<v Speaker 15>that deal by having this process play out. Another process

0:39:33.450 --> 0:39:36.839
<v Speaker 15>that was shrouded in secrecy and the Auditor General found

0:39:36.860 --> 0:39:40.040
<v Speaker 15>that today that there was limited transparency. But it was

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:42.799
<v Speaker 15>all done, Peter, to keep the net debt figure in

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 15>this state below $ 200 billion.

0:39:44.510 --> 0:39:46.529
<v Speaker 2>In this year. It's a cookie in the books, Jess.

0:39:46.910 --> 0:39:49.430
<v Speaker 15>Absolutely. You cannot trust what is in the books here

0:39:49.450 --> 0:39:51.910
<v Speaker 15>in Victoria. And we know that because just a couple

0:39:51.950 --> 0:39:55.230
<v Speaker 15>of weeks ago, Ben Carroll was caught red-handed again by

0:39:55.270 --> 0:39:58.910
<v Speaker 15>the Auditor-General with his secret tax on every single public

0:39:58.950 --> 0:40:01.569
<v Speaker 15>transport fare. And what was he at the time that

0:40:01.590 --> 0:40:05.290
<v Speaker 15>this secret tax was devised? The Minister for Public Transport.

0:40:05.330 --> 0:40:08.030
<v Speaker 15>So the Minister for Roads, the Minister for Public Transport,

0:40:08.330 --> 0:40:11.810
<v Speaker 15>the Minister for Crime Prevention, but still failing to take responsibility.

0:40:12.590 --> 0:40:15.150
<v Speaker 2>Are you worried that you get there on the 28th

0:40:15.190 --> 0:40:18.350
<v Speaker 2>of November and you wake up on the 29th and

0:40:18.370 --> 0:40:22.049
<v Speaker 2>you're hit with what Costello found in that infamous budget

0:40:22.090 --> 0:40:24.799
<v Speaker 2>period when he and Howard won in 96, when you

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.000
<v Speaker 2>open up the books and the numbers are wrong, you

0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.260
<v Speaker 2>open up the cupboard drawers and everything's basically a policy

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:35.279
<v Speaker 2>unexploded bomb, that things are far worse than you've ever

0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:35.820
<v Speaker 2>been told?

0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:38.680
<v Speaker 15>Look, I largely expect that will be the case. And

0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:41.060
<v Speaker 15>to be honest, I think Victorians expect that to be

0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:43.410
<v Speaker 15>the case as well. They know that they can't trust

0:40:43.430 --> 0:40:45.810
<v Speaker 15>this government or what is in the budget papers here.

0:40:46.350 --> 0:40:48.790
<v Speaker 15>But what I will be is I'll be honest with

0:40:48.850 --> 0:40:51.750
<v Speaker 15>Victorians about what we find. We've committed to, within our

0:40:51.810 --> 0:40:55.170
<v Speaker 15>first 100 days of coming to government, producing a budget

0:40:55.250 --> 0:40:58.799
<v Speaker 15>update so Victorians can understand exactly the state of the

0:40:58.860 --> 0:41:01.340
<v Speaker 15>finances here in Victoria. I'll always be honest.

0:41:01.420 --> 0:41:02.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll be upfront.

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:04.859
<v Speaker 15>But I'll also make the disciplined decisions required to make

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:07.140
<v Speaker 15>sure we fix the budget. And we bring back hope

0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:08.839
<v Speaker 15>and opportunity to this state.

0:41:09.610 --> 0:41:12.989
<v Speaker 2>Western Renewables Link, I'm inundated with people out that way.

0:41:13.010 --> 0:41:17.890
<v Speaker 2>I know you've scrapped another key part of the VNI,

0:41:18.090 --> 0:41:20.890
<v Speaker 2>the VNI West. This is another part of a link.

0:41:21.730 --> 0:41:24.890
<v Speaker 2>It's got farmers up in arms. The Premier must know

0:41:24.969 --> 0:41:27.090
<v Speaker 2>he's burning on this politically because he put out a

0:41:27.130 --> 0:41:30.390
<v Speaker 2>weasel word statement yesterday saying that it's under some sort

0:41:30.430 --> 0:41:33.000
<v Speaker 2>of review. Where do you stand on this?

0:41:33.420 --> 0:41:36.959
<v Speaker 15>Well, I wrote to Ben Carroll a number of weeks ago,

0:41:36.980 --> 0:41:40.740
<v Speaker 15>probably a couple of months ago now, as Victoria's alternative premier,

0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:45.009
<v Speaker 15>asking him to immediately stop this project because I know

0:41:45.050 --> 0:41:48.710
<v Speaker 15>it doesn't have the social licence to proceed. I've sat,

0:41:49.070 --> 0:41:51.730
<v Speaker 15>you know, I've visited these communities, I've been on the ground,

0:41:51.750 --> 0:41:54.390
<v Speaker 15>I've visited the farms, I've sat around the kitchen tables

0:41:54.850 --> 0:41:58.710
<v Speaker 15>and I've heard that these communities are incredibly angry that

0:41:58.750 --> 0:42:02.940
<v Speaker 15>this government has bulldozed over their rights. For this reason,

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:06.299
<v Speaker 15>I can say to your viewers and exclusively on this

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:10.879
<v Speaker 15>program tonight that if WRL is to ever proceed under

0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.840
<v Speaker 15>a government I lead, it would have to fundamentally change

0:42:15.420 --> 0:42:17.900
<v Speaker 15>and it would not proceed in the way that Labor

0:42:17.940 --> 0:42:21.660
<v Speaker 15>has proposed because it does not have the social licence

0:42:21.700 --> 0:42:24.120
<v Speaker 15>to do so, Peter. But as I said to Ben

0:42:24.140 --> 0:42:25.900
<v Speaker 15>Carroll in my letter when I said he needed to

0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:29.319
<v Speaker 15>stop this project, it is also going to cost Victorians

0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:33.739
<v Speaker 15>more and more on their energy bills. WRL and other

0:42:33.780 --> 0:42:38.080
<v Speaker 15>transmission projects like VNI West could cost Victorians more than

0:42:38.080 --> 0:42:42.290
<v Speaker 15>$ 600 a year on their energy bills while do nothing

0:42:42.350 --> 0:42:44.989
<v Speaker 15>to actually solve the looming shortfalls here in Victoria.

0:42:45.010 --> 0:42:46.089
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a key point, Jess. I think

0:42:46.110 --> 0:42:48.930
<v Speaker 2>people don't understand that the increased cost of these projects

0:42:48.950 --> 0:42:50.100
<v Speaker 2>is is on their bill.

0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:50.580
<v Speaker 8>That's right.

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:53.399
<v Speaker 2>It's not money in Spring Street. It's not, you know,

0:42:53.420 --> 0:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the company's money. It's on their bill.

0:42:56.020 --> 0:42:58.540
<v Speaker 15>It's going to be paid by energy consumers here in

0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:02.480
<v Speaker 15>Victoria and I won't allow big business to write themselves

0:43:02.500 --> 0:43:05.660
<v Speaker 15>a blank cheque at the expense of Victorian energy consumers.

0:43:06.060 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 15>So we will not allow this project to proceed without

0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:13.660
<v Speaker 15>fundamental changes to what Labor has proposed, if it ever

0:43:13.700 --> 0:43:14.540
<v Speaker 15>does proceed itself.

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.380
<v Speaker 2>If it ever does proceed, I think people at home

0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.879
<v Speaker 2>will be writing that down. Jess Wilson, thank you. Thank you, Peter.

0:43:19.900 --> 0:43:21.900
<v Speaker 2>All right, quick break after the break. We'll get into

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:30.029
<v Speaker 2>the Barrackville Golf Club scandal in a moment. All right,

0:43:30.050 --> 0:43:32.100
<v Speaker 2>let's go to my next guest, a former minister who

0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:36.850
<v Speaker 2>was stood down in circumstances far less controversial. and those

0:43:37.030 --> 0:43:40.430
<v Speaker 2>that are currently facing the Prime Minister, Victorian National Party

0:43:40.450 --> 0:43:43.969
<v Speaker 2>Senator Bridget McKenzie. Bridget, I wanted to get you on.

0:43:43.989 --> 0:43:46.490
<v Speaker 2>You know this area better than anyone. You've been involved

0:43:46.530 --> 0:43:50.390
<v Speaker 2>in the portfolio. The PM's telling us that he had

0:43:50.570 --> 0:43:52.730
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with this decision. Now, I've been able

0:43:52.770 --> 0:43:55.930
<v Speaker 2>to prove... He announced it on the 27th of April.

0:43:56.330 --> 0:43:57.969
<v Speaker 2>His mates at the golf club were out there on

0:43:58.070 --> 0:44:01.009
<v Speaker 2>Facebook spruiking about how much money they had. They didn't

0:44:01.070 --> 0:44:04.509
<v Speaker 2>even know how they were going to spend it. The

0:44:04.550 --> 0:44:06.910
<v Speaker 2>minister didn't even have a process up and running until

0:44:07.050 --> 0:44:12.219
<v Speaker 2>six months later. He owns a $ 3 million house 200

0:44:12.219 --> 0:44:14.980
<v Speaker 2>metres from the golf course. He's been an honorary member

0:44:15.020 --> 0:44:18.160
<v Speaker 2>for good on a decade. Why doesn't he have questions

0:44:18.219 --> 0:44:23.110
<v Speaker 2>to answer here? Why is he not being straight with us? Yeah,

0:44:23.430 --> 0:44:28.009
<v Speaker 2>you've summed it up beautifully, Peter. This guy has got

0:44:28.270 --> 0:44:31.589
<v Speaker 2>a lot of questions to answer. He's written a ministerial

0:44:31.690 --> 0:44:34.370
<v Speaker 2>code that makes it very clear that whether you.

0:44:34.290 --> 0:44:40.030
<v Speaker 12>Have financial or non-financial interests in decisions as a cabinet minister,

0:44:40.070 --> 0:44:43.530
<v Speaker 12>and particularly as the first amongst equals, the prime minister

0:44:43.610 --> 0:44:46.770
<v Speaker 12>in that cabinet, you need to be very upfront with

0:44:46.810 --> 0:44:50.950
<v Speaker 12>declaring those conflicts in order to provide trust to the

0:44:50.969 --> 0:44:55.290
<v Speaker 12>broader public that those conflicts are being managed appropriately. He

0:44:55.370 --> 0:44:59.560
<v Speaker 12>hasn't declared this interest at all in his public register.

0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:03.200
<v Speaker 12>He has admitted that he had an honorary membership himself.

0:45:03.340 --> 0:45:06.299
<v Speaker 12>So why wasn't it declared? Particularly when you look at

0:45:06.340 --> 0:45:11.469
<v Speaker 12>his public interest, it's all there, all the other kind

0:45:11.530 --> 0:45:16.090
<v Speaker 12>of memberships he has. So we need to understand why

0:45:16.170 --> 0:45:19.870
<v Speaker 12>he didn't do this, If he did it, when and

0:45:19.930 --> 0:45:22.549
<v Speaker 12>to whom? Was it declared to the Cabinet? Was it

0:45:22.590 --> 0:45:25.569
<v Speaker 12>declared to the Expenditure Review Committee? And I think, Peter,

0:45:25.590 --> 0:45:28.550
<v Speaker 12>that's what's been so fantastic this week.

0:45:28.469 --> 0:45:29.630
<v Speaker 2>In the Australian Senate.

0:45:29.969 --> 0:45:32.610
<v Speaker 12>We've been able to get a Senate inquiry set up

0:45:33.210 --> 0:45:38.330
<v Speaker 12>to actually look at this program and those Absolutely, those

0:45:38.390 --> 0:45:41.450
<v Speaker 12>detailed questions, not just for the Prime Minister, but for

0:45:41.489 --> 0:45:44.050
<v Speaker 12>Minister Christy McBain, Minister King.

0:45:44.210 --> 0:45:47.250
<v Speaker 2>We saw a story in the Adelaide Addy.

0:45:47.110 --> 0:45:52.090
<v Speaker 12>Today, Minister Butler writing to a club in his electorate

0:45:52.130 --> 0:45:55.620
<v Speaker 12>saying that $ 1. 5 million isn't enough, you need to ask

0:45:55.640 --> 0:45:59.680
<v Speaker 12>for more, and getting awarded, you know, millions more to

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:04.460
<v Speaker 12>that club. So this whole program stinks. It's completely different

0:46:04.739 --> 0:46:09.480
<v Speaker 12>to our sporting infrastructure program, which was open to everyone, competitive.

0:46:09.540 --> 0:46:14.180
<v Speaker 12>We had over a thousand applications, you know, funded over

0:46:14.180 --> 0:46:18.220
<v Speaker 12>680 different projects around the country in a whole manner

0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:20.100
<v Speaker 12>of areas and locations.

0:46:20.200 --> 0:46:21.900
<v Speaker 7>So, you know, this is a.

0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:24.430
<v Speaker 12>Different program and it stinks to high hell.

0:46:26.469 --> 0:46:28.810
<v Speaker 2>What irks me here, and I think this is the

0:46:28.890 --> 0:46:32.629
<v Speaker 2>crux of the issue, is he's hiding behind the fact

0:46:32.670 --> 0:46:35.770
<v Speaker 2>that the Minister signs the cheque off six months after

0:46:35.790 --> 0:46:39.669
<v Speaker 2>he announces the money. But no-one disputes when the Prime

0:46:39.710 --> 0:46:42.469
<v Speaker 2>Minister announces money that they're going to get it. That's

0:46:42.510 --> 0:46:46.000
<v Speaker 2>the absolute tone of the Mayor and the golf club.

0:46:46.100 --> 0:46:49.500
<v Speaker 2>Everyone knows a colleague might lose out in the wash,

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:52.140
<v Speaker 2>but the Prime Minister's not going to get rolled by

0:46:52.180 --> 0:46:54.540
<v Speaker 2>his Minister. So when he made the decision in the

0:46:54.580 --> 0:46:57.899
<v Speaker 2>campaign back in the April... Did he declare his interest then?

0:46:58.260 --> 0:47:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Who did he declare it to? And where is the

0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.600
<v Speaker 2>evidence it was declared? Because this golf club was going

0:47:03.620 --> 0:47:05.360
<v Speaker 2>to be changed. It was going to move from an

0:47:05.380 --> 0:47:09.980
<v Speaker 2>18-hole course to a nine-hole course. There was a clubhouse

0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:11.980
<v Speaker 2>that was in the rack and ruin. There was talk

0:47:12.020 --> 0:47:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of social housing. All of that mattered, as you would know,

0:47:15.780 --> 0:47:20.880
<v Speaker 2>to the valuation on his home that's 200 metres away

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:24.900
<v Speaker 2>from this rare green space in inner-city Sydney.

0:47:26.989 --> 0:47:29.590
<v Speaker 12>So the Code makes clear, Peter, you have to declare

0:47:29.690 --> 0:47:31.790
<v Speaker 12>financial or non-financial interests.

0:47:32.090 --> 0:47:33.810
<v Speaker 2>He has those conflicts.

0:47:33.910 --> 0:47:39.049
<v Speaker 12>That is without dispute, as you have disclosed. What needs

0:47:39.070 --> 0:47:41.410
<v Speaker 12>to be understood, if the process isn't even set up,

0:47:42.969 --> 0:47:43.469
<v Speaker 12>who or.

0:47:43.450 --> 0:47:45.780
<v Speaker 2>How does he declare these interests to?

0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:48.540
<v Speaker 12>And it is a very brave minister that says, no,

0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:50.260
<v Speaker 12>Prime Minister, you're not getting that grant.

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.739
<v Speaker 2>I doubt Catherine King would be the minister if she

0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:53.510
<v Speaker 2>had refused it.

0:47:54.340 --> 0:47:54.799
<v Speaker 7>I am, mate.

0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Fantastic. We might get some truth out of this yet.

0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Bridget McKenzie, thank you very much for joining me tonight. Well,

0:48:03.660 --> 0:48:06.120
<v Speaker 2>there you go. I'll be sending her a few transcripts

0:48:06.140 --> 0:48:09.469
<v Speaker 2>from the program, won't I? Quick break. Kel Richards after

0:48:09.489 --> 0:48:16.530
<v Speaker 2>the break. Welcome back. Joining me as he does every Wednesday,

0:48:16.610 --> 0:48:21.529
<v Speaker 2>broadcaster extraordinaire, the dear Kel Richards. Kel, we're going to

0:48:21.550 --> 0:48:25.000
<v Speaker 2>start with Wes. I think it's Wes. No, we're going

0:48:25.020 --> 0:48:27.660
<v Speaker 2>to start with, yeah, Wes, Wes, Wes. You'd like to

0:48:27.700 --> 0:48:31.100
<v Speaker 2>know the meaning of the term doubling down. Now, I'd

0:48:31.140 --> 0:48:31.859
<v Speaker 2>like this one too.

0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:35.000
<v Speaker 4>Yes, well, it means obviously to commit more firmly to something.

0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:36.880
<v Speaker 4>And it comes from a card game. It comes from

0:48:36.900 --> 0:48:39.980
<v Speaker 4>the card game called pontoon or blackjack. And it was

0:48:40.020 --> 0:48:42.000
<v Speaker 4>originally coined in the card game to mean someone who

0:48:42.060 --> 0:48:45.420
<v Speaker 4>doubles their bet, doubles the bet after all the cards,

0:48:45.440 --> 0:48:48.250
<v Speaker 4>the first dealing of cards, knowing only one more card

0:48:48.290 --> 0:48:50.219
<v Speaker 4>is going to be dealt. It was always thought of

0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:53.430
<v Speaker 4>as being a very committed but very risky thing to do.

0:48:53.890 --> 0:48:56.940
<v Speaker 4>So I think Double Down started to be risky action.

0:48:57.160 --> 0:49:00.060
<v Speaker 4>It's now often used to mean determined action, but it

0:49:00.100 --> 0:49:01.060
<v Speaker 4>comes from the card game.

0:49:02.739 --> 0:49:06.780
<v Speaker 2>Well, Pim wants to know when push comes to shove,

0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:08.900
<v Speaker 2>meaning an origin.

0:49:09.260 --> 0:49:12.299
<v Speaker 4>OK, it means determined, committed action. It means when just

0:49:12.340 --> 0:49:14.320
<v Speaker 4>pushing won't do it, it needs a good hard shove.

0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.540
<v Speaker 4>The really interesting thing, I find this fascinating. It comes

0:49:17.600 --> 0:49:19.130
<v Speaker 4>from a women's magazine in 1889.

0:49:20.050 --> 0:49:20.210
<v Speaker 2>1889.

0:49:20.210 --> 0:49:22.810
<v Speaker 4>The first time the phrase appears in print is in

0:49:22.850 --> 0:49:26.090
<v Speaker 4>the Women's Home Circle in February of 1889 in an

0:49:26.190 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 4>article about a farm girl who made good in the city.

0:49:29.430 --> 0:49:31.890
<v Speaker 4>And the article was called If Push Comes to Shove.

0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:35.180
<v Speaker 4>So somehow that was the origin of the expression.

0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:39.580
<v Speaker 2>Have we got time for curmudgeon? This one's for Graeme.

0:49:40.040 --> 0:49:42.700
<v Speaker 4>Curmudgeon means a grumpy old man, these days, or any

0:49:42.739 --> 0:49:44.819
<v Speaker 4>sort of grisly old man. But when it turned up

0:49:44.860 --> 0:49:48.090
<v Speaker 4>in the 1500s, it actually, the original form of the

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:51.590
<v Speaker 4>word was cornmudgeon. It was an old man who actually

0:49:51.630 --> 0:49:54.150
<v Speaker 4>had a hoard of corn and refused to share it

0:49:54.190 --> 0:49:58.270
<v Speaker 4>with his neighbours in tough times. He was a cornmudgeon. Nowadays,

0:49:58.290 --> 0:50:00.440
<v Speaker 4>just any grumpy old man can be a curmudgeon.

0:50:01.820 --> 0:50:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Can a woman be a curmudgeon?

0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:05.569
<v Speaker 4>Actually, I don't think they ever have been. I think

0:50:05.620 --> 0:50:07.109
<v Speaker 4>you've got to be a bloke to be a curmudgeon.

0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:10.890
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you're a battle-axe if you are, but I don't know.

0:50:11.390 --> 0:50:13.590
<v Speaker 2>We'll get to that one next week. I've known a

0:50:13.610 --> 0:50:15.350
<v Speaker 2>few of both in my time. I'll leave it there.

0:50:15.410 --> 0:50:17.950
<v Speaker 2>Kel Richards, you're certainly not a curmudgeon. See you all

0:50:17.969 --> 0:50:19.710
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow night. Here's the BOP report.