1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: I got a team, Craig, Anthony Harper, doctor Bill Sullivan, 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: doctor Tiffany, and Cook over there at typ Central. Imagine 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: if you did a PhD. Have you ever thought about 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: you ever thought about going to UNI? And you're I 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: mean you're still young, You're only forty one or something. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about going to UNI? No? 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: I haven't. But as life goes on and I get 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: more and more interested in the process of just learning 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: in different areas, when things really capture my attention, I 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: have half a second glimmer of thought. But then I 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: remember all of the stories I hear about you and 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: the process of it, and I don't think that it 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: is my jam. 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean you do need to have a 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: specific I think. Well, but anyone can learn. You just 16 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: need to figure out your way to learn. It's like, 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: you know, when people say, let's say a like to 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: doctor Bill, Hi, doctor Bill, Hello, Craig, Hello tiff Not 19 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: that you would know anything about research or study or 20 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: academia or university. No, not that you would. But like 21 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: if you feel compelled or you think you got something 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: to add, you know, jump in. But I forget somebody said, 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: there's this protocol, doctor Bill probably knows, And I think 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: it was like it was either twenty or twenty five 25 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: minutes of like hard study and then five minutes where 26 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: you which this is not a very complicated protocol, five 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: minutes of whatever you know, go away, do some push ups, 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: have a wee, you get a drink, sit under a tree, 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: then come back. Right when I started, my protocol was 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: five minutes of that and then twenty five minutes of 31 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: sitting under a tree. Or my inability to be able 32 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: to read research and actually stay present, My inability was 33 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: world class. Like having said that, if I am reading 34 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: something that I'm excited about or fascinated with, right, which 35 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: sounds bad, I should be fascinated with my research. But 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: doctor Bill will tell you like reading academic journe and 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: you know it's But it took me quite a while, 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: but I still think I'm probably about twenty ten. I 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: was five twenty five, but I'm about twenty ten. What 40 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: about you, doc, did you when you were an undergrad 41 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: and then a post grad student and even now, like, 42 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: do you have a particular protocol that works in terms 43 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: of optimal focus and attention? Yeah? 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 3: I think it varies even within your singular discipline there 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: are certain pockets of knowledge that you're just more innately 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: stimulated by. You know, you just can't get enough of 47 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: learning about X. Yes, HY is also interesting, but maybe 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: not so much so. I think I was kind of 49 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: lucky in a way. Like during my PhD, I remember 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: enjoying the topic so much that it was difficult for 51 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: me to take a break. Okay, it was difficult to 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 3: convince me to go on a VACA. I just and 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: that's not necessarily because I was a work a whole, like, 54 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: It's just because I've sincerely enjoyed doing what I was doing. 55 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: So that's what I usually tell the students who come 56 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: through my lab or through through our department that listen, 57 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: you got to love this or the PhD is going 58 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: to be absolute torture for you. 59 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love. I love my area of research. 60 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: It just like some of the like like when I 61 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: started writing my lit reviews. So it's systematic literature review 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: looking at it essentially the way that metaaccuracy, which my 63 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: area of focus has been measured and is measured across 64 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: different you know, disciplines and so on. But I started 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: with eleven hundred papers. As you know, when you whittle 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: it down and then and think about that tif I 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: don't know, on average, let's say papers twenty pages, so 68 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: I think about that. Then you've got to you know, 69 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: and you don't have to read the entirety of every paper, 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: but you can't just glimpse over it. And then that 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: one hundred and that eleven hundred pages paper's got whittled 72 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: down to one hundred and ten, which is a very 73 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: interesting correlation, but that's what it ended up. And one 74 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: hundred and ten papers then became a table in my review, 75 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: a massive table. But just staying focused to go is 76 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: this is this paper relevant? Is it not? And then 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: you look up and you go, by the way, I've 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: got six hundred and third and to go. It's hard 79 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: to stay excited in that it's. 80 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: A demoralizing yeah, and it can be repetitive. So and 81 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: you know, you see this a lot with you know, 82 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: masters and PhD students. I think a lot of them 83 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: come into the program really excited and then they get 84 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 3: to see how that sausage is made and it's a 85 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: lot more difficult cult than they ever imagined. So I'm 86 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: not saying you can't do it, but if you love 87 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: the topic, yes you're going to have a much easier time. 88 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think for me, like 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: what made what makes it not easier, but what makes 90 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: it more I guess enjoyable, and like where it's it's 91 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: worth it for me is because because I work, you know, 92 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: with teams and athletes and corporates and organizations where I'm 93 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: literally in front of groups talking all the time about 94 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: this kind of social intelligence and social awareness that's called 95 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: matter accuracy and why that matters and how it impacts 96 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: everything from building rapport and connection and trust to leadership 97 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: and teamwork and synergy and culture. And I can kind 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: of bring my real world experience and observation into alignment 99 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: with my research and bring and have this kind of 100 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: synergy of academia and real world learning and real world 101 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of experience. And then I think the challenge for 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: me is and for a lot of academics I reckon 103 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: who get in front of non academic groups, is how 104 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: do I share my stuff, my thoughts and ideas and 105 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: knowledge in a way which not only is understandable but 106 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: also is valuable, like where people one they understand it, 107 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: and two they can operationalize it to help them without 108 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: bamboozling them with graphs and charts and data and bullshit, 109 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: but just but still get the truth in inverted commas 110 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: across to them. 111 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: You know, that's a real challenge, and I think it's 112 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: pretty universally understood that in order to earn a PhD, 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: you have to make some sort of original contribution, now 114 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: a brand new discovery, if you will. That contribut it's 115 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: something new to the field that hasn't been previously appreciated 116 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: or known, and that's that's really challenging. You know, there's 117 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: a great deal of information out there already, and I 118 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: think it's pretty consistent across disciplines. Whatever you get into, 119 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 3: you really need to start doing a deep dive into 120 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: everything in order to find those undiscovered nuggets of knowledge. 121 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: And like you're describing, you have to be so well read. 122 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: I mean, you basically have to become an expert, you know, 123 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: one of the one of the most knowledgeable people in 124 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: the world on your topic of choice, so that you 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: can contribute something new because you don't want to rediscover 126 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 3: the wheel. That's the last thing you want to spend 127 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 3: your time doing. Uh So, yeah, that's the inherent challenge 128 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: and a PhD. But what a reward, right, I mean, 129 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 3: at the end of the process, if you're awarded that PhD, 130 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: that really underscores the value of how you invested your time. 131 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: You contributed something new to humanity's body of knowledge, and 132 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: that's really hard to put a praise on. And that's 133 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 3: why I admire anyone who has gone through this process 134 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: and gotten a PhD, because that tells me that other 135 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: experts agree they've contributed something really impactful to their field. 136 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And it's what's interesting is, you know, my 137 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: field is psychology, right, But it's funny you come out 138 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: with a doctorate or a PhD in psychology, but if 139 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: psychology is the ocean, I'm studying a drop of water 140 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: in that ocean, you know what I mean. It's like, 141 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, people go, oh, so you'll be a doctor 142 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: of psychology and I go, technically yes, And they're like, 143 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: so you're like a psychologist. 144 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: Nor lie down on the couch and start telling you 145 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 3: about my childhood. 146 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: Traumas and yeah, but if you want to know anything 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: about metapception or meta accuracy, then I'm guy. But other 148 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: than that, you know, probably keep your childhood trauma to yourself. 149 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:11,239 Speaker 4: But yeah, it is it is it's it's incredibly specific 150 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: and nuanced and trying to explain to people that, you know, 151 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 4: here's this here's this beach of sand, and I'm oversee 152 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: that grain of sand over there. 153 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: On this beach. That's what I'm researching five years and Toddy, 154 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: and like you said, when I'm finished, I will be 155 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: one of the experts in the world until about next 156 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: Tuesday when I get overrun. 157 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: And when you produce your PhD thesis, there's probably only 158 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: two or three people who actually want to read the 159 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: thing because it gets so specific and so nuanced. 160 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: Oh you know, we've we've churned out over one hundred 161 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: papers from my laboratory right brand new research revolving around 162 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: this parasite called toxic plasma. 163 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: And the I could probably add up all the people 164 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 3: who read all one hundred of those papers, and it 165 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: would still be dwarfed by the number of people who 166 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: might have read a popular article that I've written about it. 167 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: You know, that would be toward the toward a general audience. 168 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's pretty crazy to think about it how 169 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: specific things can get. But what we do have to 170 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: keep in mind is, no matter how small the part 171 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 3: of the puzzle is, that we investigate. You can't complete 172 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: the puddle without that piece. So this is something I 173 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: tell all my students all the time if they start 174 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: to get discouraged, no matter how small that puzzle piece 175 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: might seem to you, it is worth, you know, mapping 176 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 3: it out, because the puzzle can't be completed without it, 177 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 3: and you will be the person puts that piece into place. 178 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: So don't ever forget that. A friend of mine the 179 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: day said to me a guy I grew up with, 180 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: who great guy? He said, oh, when you finished, like 181 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: we're chatting, He's like, what are you working on today? 182 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: I said, I'm just working on my you know, one 183 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: of my papers. It's systematic literature review. What's that? And 184 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: I told him and he goes, oh wow. He goes, 185 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: can I read it? Like when you finished? Can I 186 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: read it? And I go, she don't want to read it? 187 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: And he goes, no, I really want to read it. 188 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: I go, here's a better idea. Let's spend ten minutes 189 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: or five minutes, and I will tell you what it's 190 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: about and you'll understand that and you'll be mildly interested. 191 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: And then I read him the abstract right, and he's like, nah, 192 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: I want to read it. I read in the abstract 193 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: of my paper. He's like, nah, no, I get it 194 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: all right, I did really yeah, yeah no. So what 195 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: about when you do do you ever do corporate stuff, doc, Like, 196 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: do you get in front of non academic audiences you 197 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: mean like corporate speaking and stuff? 198 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 3: Yeah? 199 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like what talking to Yeah, whether or not 200 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: it's at corporate conferences or workshops or seminars. Do that 201 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: stuff as well? Well? 202 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 3: We certainly do a lot of like presentations at scientific meetings, 203 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: and these are these vary on the topic. So most 204 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: of the meetings we go to are microbiology and nature 205 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 3: because we study a parasite, so we go to infectious 206 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: disease meetings microbiology meetings. But some of the aspects of 207 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: the parasite that we study, some of the particulars of 208 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 3: its biology, will take us to meetings from different disciplines. Yeah, 209 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: we don't go to too many, like pharmaceutical companies because 210 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: they I don't really know if that's like a platform 211 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 3: that they offer. But I certainly run into colleagues who 212 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: work in industry at the various scientific meetings that I 213 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: told you about. 214 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: So one of the things which is probably you know, 215 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: well it's not. Probably it's my main job in inverted 216 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: commas is is corporate speaking. But I will talk at 217 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: everything from real estate conferences to banking conferences, to medical conferences, 218 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: to blokes in prison, to you know, cricket clubs and 219 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: football clubs and elite athletes, but speaking broadly around you know, 220 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: how like human performance, how do I manage me? How 221 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: do I manage my mind, body, emotions, choices, behavior, lifestyle? 222 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: How do I get the best out of me? Right? 223 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: And so my premise for talking to you know, it's 224 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: like someone might go, so you're going to talk at 225 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: a banking conference, what the fuck do you know about banking? 226 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: I go nothing. I don't need to because I'm not 227 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: there to talk about banking. Because what I've got is 228 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: a thousand people in a room. And each of those 229 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: thousand people have got a brain and a body and 230 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: a mind and a life and a lifestyle, and all 231 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: of them make choices, and all of them have behaviors 232 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: and habits and rituals, and probably all of them overthink, 233 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: and all of them at some stage get anxious. And 234 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: all right, so there's this. Yeah, I'm not a banking expert, 235 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: but I'm not there to talk about that. I'm there 236 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: to talk about how all of those people who work 237 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: in that industry can look after themselves better. You know 238 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: the question. 239 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 3: You're using a different skill set there, You're you're becoming 240 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: more like a coach, and. 241 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, how do I manage me being able to. 242 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't matter if they're they're bankers or in 243 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 3: the auto industry or what have you. You're you're giving 244 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: them transferable psychological tools that they can use to excel 245 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 3: in their field, no matter what it is. So if 246 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 3: you include my book in the realm of what I 247 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 3: do at the university, I have certainly given talks at 248 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: corporations and other places. 249 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: I've been everywhere with that thing. That's what That's what 250 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking. 251 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 5: So libraries even to build a books Please to meet Me, 252 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 5: by the way, churches Yeah, yeah, well, I mean it's 253 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 5: because well humans are in churches too, you know, I mean, 254 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: every absolutely, and there's just you know, there's these this 255 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 5: wonderful thirst. 256 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 3: For knowledge that I think most humans have a curiosity. 257 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: And my book, which Pleased to Meet Me, is basically 258 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: a known as manual for the human body based on 259 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: the knowledge that we currently have. Now you know, It's 260 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: a very up to date, cutting edge type of book 261 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 3: that teaches you how genes and microbes and psychological forces, 262 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: evolutionary forces all conspire to make you who you are. 263 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 3: And I'm hard pressed to find any human being that 264 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 3: has no interest in that topic because Know Thyself is 265 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: one of the greatest philosophical pieces of wisdom that's ever 266 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: been put forth, and this book teaches you how to 267 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 3: do that. Yeah, And in the same manner, it teaches 268 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 3: you how other people operate, which can you know you 269 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: can leverage for good or bad? I suppose, But it's 270 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 3: comforting to know that the same things that make you 271 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 3: tick make another person tick. Okay, So you can find 272 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 3: some commonalities even though you might be very different. You 273 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: can find these biological commonalities that explain how you got 274 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: to be that type of person. And in my mind, 275 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 3: it engender's a lot more compassion between people despite the differences. 276 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: I love that you know you can't. 277 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: Help to a large degree the type of person you became, 278 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: and if you understand that about yourself and you understand 279 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 3: that about someone else, you can put that on the 280 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: table as like the conversation starter. Look, we're very different. 281 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: We can respect that but we do have a lot 282 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: in common. Okay, we're all human, we all have the 283 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: same wishes and aspirations, we all fear the same things, 284 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 3: and I think at the end of the day, we 285 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 3: all want to make the world a better place. So 286 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 3: why are we different? And how can we overcome those 287 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: differences to achieve our common goals? And that's a conversation 288 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: that needs to be had. But there's a lot of 289 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: people out in the world making a lot of money 290 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: by preventing that conversation from happening. 291 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting time we live in. It's very 292 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: especially right at the moment. So one of the things 293 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: I want your thoughts on this, Right, So this is 294 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: a really common Craig thing. My listeners have heard a 295 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: version of this a thousand times. 296 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: Right. 297 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: So, when I have a thought, if I believe the thought, 298 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, and let's say the thought it's just a 299 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: construct in my mind, but it's not true. Let's say 300 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: the thought is I'm in danger, right, but I'm not 301 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: actually in danger, but I think I'm in danger. But 302 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: the reality, the real world reality, is that I'm safe. 303 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: There's no threat, I am not in danger, but I 304 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: think I'm in Dangerotional kind of association with that would 305 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: be fear, terror, whatever, And then the physiological could be 306 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: all the things you know, elevated heart rate, breathing, adrenaline, cortisol, sympathetic, 307 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: nervous system, all this physiological stuff happens. So in this 308 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: kind of this myriad of events that are going on 309 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: almost simultaneously, like cognitive emotional physiological or psychological emotional physiological. 310 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: Is the response in my body caused by my thought? 311 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: Or is my genetics which is you know, my genetic disposition? 312 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: Does that determine how I think? Like, what's the direction 313 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: of all of this? Is it all at once? Is it? 314 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that, like the way that 315 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: our thinking affects our biology slash physiology and vice versa. 316 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really interesting question, kind of a biological 317 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 3: chicken or the egg type of thing. And it all 318 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 3: happened so fast that we can't perceive what the kinetics 319 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: of this possibly is. But from all I understand about 320 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 3: stress responses and so on, and I, you know, just 321 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,239 Speaker 3: to touch on your point real quick, we invent so 322 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 3: much unnecessary stress in our lives today that it's just crazy. 323 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: And it stems from what I call evolutionary ghosts. Okay, 324 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 3: these are physiological things that happened to us that that 325 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: kind of prey upon our ancient stress responses, things that 326 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: would have kept us alive back when we were running 327 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 3: away from cheetahs and cougars or whatever, you know, or 328 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 3: trying to find food. Those are legitimate stresses that if 329 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: we didn't satisfy those drives, those needs, those anxieties, we 330 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: probably would have died. Okay, the survivor was on the line. 331 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: That's not the case for most people today, most people. Okay, 332 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: So we invent all these other stresses, mostly like their 333 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: social in nature, because we still have deep within our 334 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 3: brains these primordial drives to broadcast the best version of 335 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: ourself that we can. Okay, we're obsessed with status, We're 336 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: obsessed with climbing the hierarchy for these silly reasons to 337 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 3: attract a mate and dominate you know, the tribe or 338 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: society if you will. And we don't have to do 339 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 3: that anymore. These these are totally invented stresses and pressures 340 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 3: that we put upon ourselves. And I know it's so 341 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: much easier said than done. It's easier said by an 342 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: old man like me than a younger person, because those 343 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 3: stresses are very palpable. You know, I didn't think this 344 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: way when I was younger, but of course I didn't 345 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 3: have an appreciation for the biology behind all of it. 346 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 3: But all this excessive ambition for status, when you think 347 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: about it in biological terms, very silly and very unnecessary. 348 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 3: We can build a different world that is not based 349 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 3: on competition and you know, defeating one another, but based 350 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 3: on collaboration and cooperation. That's when humans really excel, Okay, 351 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 3: not when they compete, when they collaborate, when they cooperate 352 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: the scientific enterprise that you were describing earlier, Craig, despite 353 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: the fact that you plug in one small piece of 354 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 3: the puzzle that illustrates the power of the connectivity of 355 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 3: all the scientists working on the same problem. None of 356 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 3: us can figure it out by ourselves anymore. 357 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: We rely on all all the other individuals helping us. 358 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 3: So I really get frustrated with egotistical people these days, 359 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 3: thinking that their singular actions, you know, caused some great thing. 360 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 3: It is always built on the shoulders of giants, right, 361 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 3: So what the hell was I talking about before I 362 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: went on That's okay, the evolutionary ghosts and the sustresses 363 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 3: and the order. Okay, see this is another problem of 364 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: getting old. You forget where your train of thought. 365 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: No, I think it's caused you've got twenty seven things 366 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: going on it once up there. So yeah, go on, 367 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: evolutionary ghost. I'm writing that down. That could be the title. 368 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was in That was in the book if 369 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 3: people want to learn more specifics about them, and I 370 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: encourage people to do so, if not from my book, 371 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: from somewhere else, because you can live a much more 372 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 3: happier life once to identify the silly reason behind many 373 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: of our biological drives. 374 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's what. Here's the answer to your question. 375 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 3: After all of that, I think you know from my 376 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 3: understanding of the situation is when we, when our brains 377 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: at a subconscious level, detect some threat, okay some you know. 378 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: Let's say that you suspect that someone is spreading some bad. 379 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Gossip about you. Okay, that's going. 380 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 3: To send some kind of red alarm, you red alert 381 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: into your brain, right and you might not know why 382 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 3: at first, but it will quickly occur to you that 383 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I'm feeling all this this worry and 384 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 3: this anger and maybe this thirst for revenge because I 385 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 3: believe this person is talking bad about me. Okay, so 386 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: I don't believe we think about that. The emotions happen first, 387 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 3: because those emotions are the same as if you were 388 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 3: to be chased by a bear, those would be the 389 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 3: same emotion. It's the same biochemicals coursing through your bodies. 390 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: Whether it's a physical threat or a psychological threat, same chemicals, 391 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: it's the same chemistry. So evolution has basically co opted 392 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 3: a primordial system that kept us alive. You know, if 393 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 3: a predator was chasing us, and it is applied it 394 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: to our social interactions, which I mean I can understand. 395 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: Back in the day, those may have been really critical 396 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 3: to your survival. You know, your status and the tribe 397 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 3: and the amount of resources you get, the amount of 398 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 3: mating opportunities and so on. 399 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: You don't need to worry about that in today's world. 400 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: I sure don't. Yeah, I don't think most people do. 401 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's some people. 402 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 3: It's really bad places where these primordial stress response pathways 403 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 3: are still going to keep them alive. But most people 404 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 3: stress about really really dumb things. And if you have 405 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 3: the courage to analyze your responses and think intelligently, Okay, 406 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: why do I feel anxious? Why do I feel angry? Oh, 407 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 3: it's because someone might be spreading gossip about me. Put 408 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: a pause in between your response and the emotions you feel, 409 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: and it can be short, a short, little pause, or 410 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 3: maybe you just want to sleep on it. You know, 411 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: that can even be better sometimes, and you'll find that 412 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: your responses tend to be a lot more measured, a 413 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: lot more stoic, and a lot more sensible if you 414 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 3: utilize your prefrontal cortex, which is the logical analytical part 415 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 3: of your brain, and apply it to the emotions that 416 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 3: you're feeling. Okay, I'm recognizing my emotions, but my common 417 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 3: sense is telling me this is why I'm feeling those emotions. 418 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: And then you can. 419 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: Evaluate whether you really need a drastic response or if 420 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 3: it's no big thing. 421 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: That's why you're that's why you're doctor Bill. Yeah. What's 422 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: interesting is that, like an intellectual understanding can coexist with 423 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: an irrational emotion in the same human at the same time. 424 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: Like I might think this is ridiculous, but I might think, oh, 425 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: doctor Bill doesn't like me. Right, I'm all of a sudden, 426 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: I'm insecure, I'm thinking doctor bild, I don't know he 427 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: said that, or he looked at me da da da 428 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: da while while probably knowing that's not true. Do you 429 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: know what I mean? But at these things, or I 430 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: could Maybe a better example is, you know, I've literally 431 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: stood on a stage thousands of times. I did my 432 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: first paid speaking gig when I was twenty six. I 433 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: did lots before that for free, So thousands of times 434 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: I've been of an audience. And there are still times 435 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: when there's fear, like irrational fear, not terror. But well, 436 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: this will be the day that you fuck up, Craig. 437 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: You've been very lucky for the last thirty five years, 438 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: you know, there's that kind of oh what if? What if? 439 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: What if? While having data that tells me, no, you're 440 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: actually quite good at this, you know, unemotional evidence and data, 441 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: whereas those things can coexist, and sometimes I need to 442 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: consciously just recognize the feeling without buying into the feeling, 443 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, while still not pretending that there's zero risk 444 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: and I'm guaranteed to kill it, you know. But I 445 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: think also that like when you are opening the door 446 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: on which is you're opening a Craig door, which I like, 447 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: why do I feel this way? 448 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 3: Even? 449 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: Why do I think this way? Why do I respond 450 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: this way? Which is like a meta awareness or a 451 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, metabception, metacognition more accurately thinking about thinking but 452 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: also thinking about emotions. It's like that that is a 453 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: real skill and a kind of awareness to be able 454 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: to in the moment, like you said, before you react, 455 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: which some we can't always do that, but if you 456 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: can find a moment to go hang on, what is 457 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: this feeling? Where is this thought coming from? 458 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 3: Why? 459 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 6: Why? 460 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: Why is my state changed? Why am I angry now? 461 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: Why am I scared? Now? Why am I overthinking? 462 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 3: Now? 463 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: Why do I want that person that I don't know? 464 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: Why do I want their approval so desperately? What is 465 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: that about? You know, this is like a real kind 466 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: of I think, like an interpersonal and intra personal superpower 467 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: where you can understart to understand yourself because you're you know, 468 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: like understand yourself bigger than just your biology and physiology. 469 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: Understanding you know, the way that you interact with others 470 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: sociology and the way that you think about others and 471 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: think about yourself psychology, but just understanding you for you, 472 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: but also understanding you for others. You know, does that 473 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: make sense? 474 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so, And I'll start by saying, I 475 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 6: adore you, Craig, you know, thanks whether Professor Bill likes you, 476 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 6: thank you. You know, I know you've probably lost so 477 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 6: much sleep over that, and I feel so bad that 478 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 6: I didn't make it clear. 479 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. I really do enjoy coming on here and 480 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: talking to you. Thank you, Tiff. Can you make that 481 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: a real please that Doctor Bill said he adores me. 482 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: So that is going to be all over the internet 483 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: in about a six second reel very soon. Thank you. 484 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: I think anyone who talks to you will feel the 485 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: same way. So now the episode is going to be 486 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: called Doctor Bill Loves Me. There you go. 487 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: I'm sure you'll get a lot a lot of listeners 488 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: on that one. 489 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sorry storry to interrupt. Go ahead. 490 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I certainly understand, like the trepidation that 491 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 3: you still can feel and getting up in front of 492 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 3: an audience, even if you've done in a million times, 493 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: you're worried that the million in first time is going 494 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: to be a disaster for some reason, yes, or that 495 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 3: you're you know, as we get older, we're losing it 496 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 3: or something like that. And you know, that that's perfectly natural. 497 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 3: But like you said, I love the example that you 498 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 3: pointed out there. You have the emotional intelligence to stop 499 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: that feeling in its tracks and analyze it and diffuse 500 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 3: it with data. Okay, you diffuse it with all the 501 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 3: other instances where you've gotten up in front of the audience, 502 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 3: all the other instances you felt nervous, Everything was just fine. 503 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 3: There's no real reason unless you went to the bar 504 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: for lunch, that you're going to screw up this time. Yeah, 505 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 3: so calm down and have fun with it. And if 506 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 3: it is a disaster, who cares, you know, So you 507 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: have one bad day, you'll be able to recover from that. 508 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 3: We take ourselves and other people way too seriously sometimes, 509 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 3: and you know, I think this is just a part 510 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 3: of life that maybe it comes along with age, maybe 511 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 3: it comes by analyzing your emotions more carefully. But you 512 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 3: know that we all have one really basic thing in common. 513 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 3: And I give this advice to friends and even family 514 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 3: members who feel stressed out, and it sounds like really 515 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: really crazy advice, but I tell them, don't forget. One 516 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 3: day you'll be dead. That person will be dead, everybody 517 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 3: will be dead. No one's going to remember any of this. Okay, 518 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 3: In a couple billion years, the sun will swallow the earth. 519 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: All of humanity will be wiped out. What are you 520 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: stressing for? Go out and have some fun. And if 521 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you weren't stressed before, everyone now you are. No, it's 522 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: so like you were. You didn't say this exactly, but 523 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: and correct what I get wrong earlier. Firstly, I agree 524 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: with what you said. It's really we may be yeah, 525 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: of course, and we we invent problems like if there 526 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: isn't like I've got friends, you know who you are friends. 527 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: If they don't, if nothing's wrong, they'll find something. They'll 528 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: manufacture something to worry about. They will find a needle 529 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: of negativity in a haystack of hope. Oh yeah, right, 530 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: we have. 531 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 3: A strong negativity bias in our brain. It's kept us alive, 532 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 3: you know, back in the day. Again, it's another one 533 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: of these evolutionary ghosts. 534 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think that when we think about you were 535 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: talking before about the physiological responses to perceived threat or danger, 536 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: or or maybe I was talking about what we were 537 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: talking about. But it's it's like so like some fear 538 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: is good, like certain fears are good because they're going 539 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: to keep us alive and they make total sense. And Craig, 540 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: don't put your hand in the fire, and that is 541 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: a good fear to have, or don't pick up that snake, 542 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: or don't jump off that you know, these are all intelligent, 543 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: healthy fears that make sense. But then there are irrational 544 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: fears that are almost can almost become a psychological and 545 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: emotional prison, that stop people's growth, that stop people's happiness, 546 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: that stop people's ability to socialize, you know, agoraphobia being 547 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: a classic example of people who are scared to leave 548 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: their house or to you know, like and full respect 549 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: for that, like it's a very real condition, but you know, 550 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: trying to trying to manipulate or change that physical fear 551 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: response over time. And what comes to mind for me 552 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: is I've probably coached about like I've spoken to a 553 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: lot of people about public speaking a lot, but it 554 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: probably coached about ten people in the last thirty years 555 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: who came to me expressly because their job required them 556 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: to talk to a group. And sometimes it was a 557 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: group of five, and sometimes it was in an auditorium 558 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: with hundreds of people, and they were somewhere between scared 559 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: and uncomfortable through to terrified and I didn't really have 560 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: any abject failures. But what was interesting was and it 561 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 1: was mostly successful and some with some stellar performances where 562 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 1: people then almost became addicted to it because they loved it, right, 563 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: But watching people transform from doing a thing that creates 564 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: stress and anxiety and all this physical kind of stuff 565 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: happening in their body through to the same person doing 566 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: the same thing and enjoying it and having a completely 567 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: different literal, different physiological, emotional and psychologic experience further down 568 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: the track doing the same thing, and trying to figure out, 569 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: how do we have do we as individuals and we 570 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: can't with everyone, but how do we try in ourselves 571 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: to create a less traumatic physical response to some of 572 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: those things that it's almost like we are creating the trauma. 573 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, I get what you're saying, and you know, just 574 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 3: to put in a disclaimer that we should distinguish that 575 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: there are real phobias out there that can be very paralyzing, 576 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 3: and we certainly don't mean to belittle those with this conversation, 577 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: But what you're suggesting, Craig is much more minor on 578 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 3: non clinical phobia that just slows people down on a 579 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 3: daily basis. For seemingly no good reason. And you know this, 580 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: This I think. 581 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: Is a. 582 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 3: Is a trainable entity. There are many books on how 583 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 3: to live your life following stoic philosophical principles. I have 584 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,959 Speaker 3: found those to be immensely helpful. And for those who 585 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 3: think stoicism is just like ignoring your emotions, that's not 586 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 3: what it is. It is basically learning how to detect 587 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 3: your emotions, appreciating them for what they are and nothing more, 588 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 3: but then utilizing your resources and your intellect to evaluate 589 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 3: those emotions and respond more productively. Okay, and stoicism gives 590 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 3: you a wide variety of psychological tools that you can 591 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 3: use to train yourself in that regard. That's something most 592 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 3: people can do in the comfort of their own home 593 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 3: and buy themselves. But if you're struggling with it, stoicism 594 00:36:53,719 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: is basically the foundation for CBT cognitive behavioral therapy, and 595 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 3: if you need to seek out a therapist to help 596 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 3: guide you to develop these habits, cognitive behaviorable behavior therapist 597 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 3: is what you want to seek out. They will teach 598 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 3: you how to put that space in between your emotions 599 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 3: and your response. 600 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: UBST. 601 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 3: It's pretty remarkable that CBT is a relatively recent psychological 602 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 3: phenomenon of psychological practice, but it really has its roots 603 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: two thousand years ago with the Greek and Roman Stoic philosophers. 604 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 3: I just find that fascinating. They figured this out so 605 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 3: long ago, and we just kind of rediscovered it now. 606 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 3: And it's a good thing because, like you said in 607 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 3: your examples, Craig, there's so many people worrying over such 608 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 3: minutia and trivial things, and I know they can seem 609 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 3: really worriten to you in the moment, but if you 610 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 3: can learn to reevaluate some of those feelings that are 611 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 3: being generated by your body, you really can get better 612 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 3: at it and develop more productive responses down the road. 613 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about you know, obviously the Stoics 614 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: and philosophers and theologians and in different cultures gurus like 615 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: they've been around forever, not literally but a long long time, 616 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: but in the evolutionary timeline, like psychology is five minutes old. 617 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: But yeah, we all grew up going all psychology psychology, 618 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: but for most of most of humanity it wasn't even 619 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't even a thing. I think eighteen seventy the 620 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: term was coined or I think the first kind of 621 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: what they would call psychological research. I forget the guy's name. 622 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: It was a German dude, but psychology as a field 623 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: of study and research, and even that name, it's five 624 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: minutes old. And then you think about, as you say, 625 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: what Socrates and Marcus Aurelius and you know, all of 626 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: those dudes and some due debts. I'm sure we're talking 627 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: about two two and a half thousand years ago. It 628 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: was really is really the foundation of so much wisdom 629 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: around just being a human, what it is to be 630 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: a human and to interact with other humans, and to 631 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 1: learn how to self regulate and self manage and mind 632 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: your mind and mind your emotions and mind your behaviors. 633 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: Like none of this stuff that we're talking about today 634 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: is even remotely new. You know, it's been you would know, yeah, 635 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and none of us knew. It's like that, 636 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, the beginning of wisdom is to know, because 637 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: my you know, to know thy self, which is I 638 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: think two and a half thousand years old. That quote, 639 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: give or take depending on you know, and that was 640 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: I've taken it out, but that was. That was the 641 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: first sentence in the intro to my thesis. It might 642 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: go back in. But it's funny you quote all of 643 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: these researchers. It's like, you know, dat our twenty twenty 644 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: one and then you go Socrates five hundred BC. Yeah, 645 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: two words theyself. Yeah, likely all you need to do. 646 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 3: But yeah, but you know there's that know theyself seems 647 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 3: like a simple phreeze and it's a valuable one, but 648 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: there's a lot to unpack there. 649 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: Well, that's that's right. It's like it's like it's analogous 650 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: to saying to somebody, you know, don't worry. It's like, well, 651 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: that's cool, but I need a bit more than that, Yeah, 652 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: because that's not a strategy or a plan. There's no. 653 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: That's almost like an instruction, as know thy self is. 654 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: It's it's a good instruction, but then we need a 655 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: little bit more to know. Yeah, good, okay, I get that, 656 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: But what does that mean? And how do I do that? Yeah? 657 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 3: Well, as Bobby McFerrin would say, you know, don't worry 658 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 3: be happy, you. 659 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: Know, which is another Okay, Well how do I do that? 660 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 3: And there are tools out there that can help you that. 661 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: The whole realm of positive psychology. 662 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 3: Is kind of centered on these principles that recognize that 663 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 3: human brains, probably all primate brains, have a strong negativity bias. 664 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 3: It was good for you when you were being chased 665 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 3: by predators and looking for food and trying to survive 666 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 3: the elements. We don't live in that world anymore. So 667 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 3: what we waste a lot of that stress on is 668 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 3: our social interactions. And I'm not trying to diminish the 669 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 3: importance of our social interactions, but there are things that 670 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 3: we do in society that we should analyze before pursuing them. 671 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 3: This relentless pursuit up the up the ladder of success 672 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 3: for what you know, get to a rung where you're comfortable, 673 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 3: and then just start living your life. 674 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: You know. 675 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,879 Speaker 3: Don't let life pass you by trying to reach up 676 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 3: for another rung on this endless ladder, you know. So 677 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 3: that's just one really important lesson you can learn and 678 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 3: when you embrace some of these principles, and it certainly 679 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you can just sit back on your couch, 680 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 3: kick off your shoes and just you know, rest for 681 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 3: the remainder of your life. That's not really what positive 682 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 3: psychology it's about. It's about channeling your efforts and your 683 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 3: energies into more productive things than worry and anxiety, because 684 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 3: that doesn't help anything. It just shortens your life and 685 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,919 Speaker 3: it makes you miserable. You can extract the energy that's 686 00:42:53,960 --> 00:43:00,720 Speaker 3: being put into those feelings and put it into something tangible. Okay, 687 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 3: that's really going to make a difference. You know, maybe 688 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 3: you can rate something, maybe you can go march for 689 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 3: a cause, maybe you can get into politics. You can 690 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,959 Speaker 3: channel those energies into something that's going to to help 691 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 3: solve the problem. 692 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah, we we do have a capacity 693 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: to invest a lot of energy and things that we 694 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: can't control or change. And there's I don't know if 695 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: I've mentioned this to you, but there was a lady 696 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: who recently brought out a book. Sorry everyone that you've 697 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: heard this twenty times, but it's called Bad Therapy Buyer, 698 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: an author and a researcher called Abigail Schreier, and she 699 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,360 Speaker 1: talks about you know that that some for some people, 700 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: talk therapy is not great because it means every Tuesday 701 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: they go and sit down with you know, Brian or 702 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: Gail and talk about the same stuff they talked about 703 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: the last ninety two sessions. Some people, of course, it's 704 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: more than that, but for some people that's not the best. 705 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: But I also think back to your you know, the 706 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: success ladder, Like I think part of the challenge and 707 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: I know we've got to wind up soon, but part 708 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: of the challenge is because most of us me anyway, 709 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: and I'm sure Tiff, I don't know about you, Doc, 710 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: but we kind of grew up in Australia. The culture 711 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: and the collective mindset is that success is about stuff. 712 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: It's about things. It's about you know, what you have 713 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: and what you earn, and what your own, and what 714 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: you drive, and where you live, and what people think 715 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 1: to you, what people say about you, and your brand 716 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: and your credibility and your academic achievements and your bank 717 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: balance and your body and like it's about all of 718 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: these external things. And we have this. When I have, 719 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: I will be successful when and then you get to there. 720 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: And I did this when I was fortunate in that 721 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: I kind of had some success when I was in 722 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: my early thirties, and by the time I was in 723 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: my early thirties, I was more commercially succescessful then I 724 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: ever thought I would be in my life. But at 725 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: the same time, I was maybe the most sad and 726 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: anxious and not sleeping, and I'm like, how does this work? 727 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: I'm in inverted commas successful so externally from there outside 728 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: looking in, my life's Hollywood and people would say you're 729 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: killing it, You're going oh, and I'll be like yeah, 730 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: And then but internally I'm like, why do I feel 731 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: like shit? And I think that the you know, this 732 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: story that we have is when I own that or 733 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: do this or achieve that or look like that, then 734 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: I will be the opposite of everything. You know. I 735 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: won't be anxious, I will be calm, I will be joyful, 736 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: I will sleep well, I won't be insecure. All of 737 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: these great and then you do those things and you're like, 738 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,879 Speaker 1: none of that's true. I'm still insecure. 739 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 3: You know. You can see that example plead out in 740 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 3: many celebrities who are so miserable they turned to drugs 741 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 3: and alcohol in order to escape what from the outside 742 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 3: looks like a glorious life. But like you said, they're miserable, 743 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 3: and no amount of money, no amount of houses or 744 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 3: boats or jewelry, none of that can satiate the human 745 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 3: desire for more. And I think culture has a lot 746 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 3: to do with this, because, like you said, we are 747 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 3: raised in this culture that your value in life is 748 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 3: based on what's in your checkbook or what's in your bank, 749 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 3: and that's total bullshit. Your measure, your value in life 750 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 3: is the character that you exude, okay, and how you 751 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 3: treat other people in your life. That's what And scientific 752 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 3: studies have backed up what philosophers and many theologians have 753 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 3: been telling us for years. The key to happiness is 754 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 3: not in external things like money and cars and jewelry. 755 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 3: It's in internal things. And what that means, of my 756 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 3: understanding of it is it's how you, you know, build 757 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 3: your character and recognize someone else's character. It's basically being 758 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 3: good to yourself, allowing yourself to you know, to feel 759 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 3: pleasure from very simple things, and you know, extending that 760 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 3: same kindness to another person. Many studies have shown that gratitude, humility, 761 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 3: and generosity are much more likely to make you feel 762 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 3: not only temporary happiness, but sustained contentment than any amount 763 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 3: of money or luxury. 764 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it's I think like we think 765 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: that of course, because that's how we're all programmed that 766 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: money equals wealth. And I'm like, well, money's a race. 767 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: Money's not bad by the way, of course, like lots 768 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: of money. Cool. If somebody said, Craig, you can get 769 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: paid X tomorrow or ten x, I'm choosing ten X. 770 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: But I'm not thinking that TENX is going to make 771 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: me a better human and a better person or a 772 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: happier person necessarily at all. But I talk about wealth 773 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: in terms of like social wealth, emotional wealth, spiritual wealth, 774 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: and psychological wealth, and looking at those bank balances or 775 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: those those kind of that kind of you know, because 776 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: as you say, and of course there's a practical reality. 777 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: We've got to pay the bills and feed the kids 778 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: and send them to school, of course, but there is 779 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: a you know, there is definitely a kind of an 780 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,160 Speaker 1: internal kind of ledger as well. Mate, We've got to go. 781 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: One of my proudest moments on this podcast in seventeen 782 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: hundred and eight episodes is getting you to say bullshit. 783 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: So thank you. Couldn't be prouder. Couldn't be prouder if 784 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: I opened the swearing door about a year and a 785 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: half ago and he just finally walked through it. So 786 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: my work is done. Thank you everybody. This will be 787 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: my last, No, it won't be, mate. So Doctor Bill's 788 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: book is pleased to meet me. Jeans, germs, and the 789 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: curious forces that make us who we are. If people 790 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: want to follow you or connect with you, do you 791 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,960 Speaker 1: want them to do that? And if so, how do 792 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: they do that? Oh? 793 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely, they can find me at author Bill Sullivan dot com. 794 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, we'll say goodbye here, but for the moment, 795 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,960 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook, thank you, Thanks guys, doctor Bill, thank you, 796 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: My pleasure.