1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: I got a team Craig, Anthony Harper, doctor Bill Sullivan, 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: doctor Tiffany, and Cook over there at typ Central. Imagine 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: if you did a PhD. Have you ever thought about 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: you ever thought about going to UNI? And you're I 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: mean you're still young, You're only forty one or something. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about going to UNI? No? 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: I haven't. But as life goes on and I get 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: more and more interested in the process of just learning 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: in different areas, when things really capture my attention, I 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: have half a second glimmer of thought. But then I 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: remember all of the stories I hear about you and 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: the process of it, and I don't think that it 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 2: is my jam. 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean you do need to have a 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: specific I think. Well, but anyone can learn. You just 16 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: need to figure out your way to learn. It's like, 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: you know when people say, let's say a like to 18 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: doctor Bill, Hi, doctor. 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 3: Bill, Hello, Craig, Hellole tiff. 20 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Not that you would know anything about research or study 21 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: or academia or university. No, not that you would, But 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: like if you feel compelled or you think you got 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: something to add, you know, jump in. But I forget. 24 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: Somebody said, there's this protocol, doctor Bill probably knows, and 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: I think it was like it was either twenty or 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: twenty five minutes of like hard study and then five 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: minutes where you which this is not a very complicated protocol, 28 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: five minutes of whatever you know, go away, do some pushups, 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: have a week, you get a drink, sit under a tree, 30 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: then come back. Right when I started, my protocol was 31 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: five minutes of that and then twenty five minutes of 32 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: sitting under a tree. Or my inability to be able 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: to read research and actually stay present, My inability was 34 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: world class. Like having said that, if I am reading 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: something that I'm excited about or fascinated with, right, which 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: sounds bad, I should be fascinated with my research. But 37 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: doctor Bill will tell you like reading academic journy and 38 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: you know it's But it took me quite a while. 39 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: But I still think I'm probably about twenty ten. I 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: was five twenty five, but I'm about twenty ten. What 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: about you, doc, did you when you were an undergrad 42 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: and then a post grad student and even now, like, 43 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,839 Speaker 1: do you have a particular protocol that works in terms 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: of optimal focus and attention? 45 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it varies even within your singular discipline 46 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: there are certain pockets of knowledge that you're just more 47 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: innately stimulated by. You know, you just can't get enough 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: of learning about X. Yes, HY is also interesting, but 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: maybe not so much so. I think I was kind 50 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: of lucky in a way. Like during my PhD, I 51 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: remember enjoying the topic so much that it was difficult 52 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: for me to take a break. Okay, it was difficult 53 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: to convince me to go on a VC. I just 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: and that's not necessarily because I was a work a whole, like, 55 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: It's just because I've sincerely enjoyed doing what I was doing. 56 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: So that's what I usually tell the students who come 57 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: through my lab or through through our department that listen, 58 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: you got to love this or the PhD is going 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: to be absolute torture for you. 60 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love. I love my area of research. 61 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: It just like some of the like like when I 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: started writing my lip reviews. So it's systematic literature review 63 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: looking at it essentially the way that metaaccuracy, which my 64 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: area of focus, has been measured and is measured across 65 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: different you know, disciplines and so on. But I started 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: with eleven hundred papers, as you know, when you whittle 67 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: it down and then and think about that tif I 68 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: don't know, on average, let's say papers twenty pages, so 69 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: I think about that. Then you've got to you know, 70 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: and you don't have to read the entirety of every paper, 71 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: but you can't just glimpse over it. And then that 72 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: one hundred and that eleven hundred pages paper's got whittled 73 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: down to one hundred and ten, which is a very 74 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: interesting correlation, but that's what it ended up. And the 75 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: one hundred and ten papers then became a table in 76 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: my review, a massive table. But just staying focused to 77 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: go is this is this paper relevant? Is it not? 78 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: And then you look up and you go, by the way, 79 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I've got six hundred and third and to go. It's 80 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: hard to stay excited in that. 81 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: It's a demoralizing yeah, and it can be repetitive. So 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: and you know, you see this a lot with you know, 83 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 3: masters and PhD students. I think a lot of them 84 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: come into the program really excited and then they get 85 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 3: to see how that sausage is made and it's a 86 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 3: lot more difficul cult than they ever imagined. So I'm 87 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 3: not saying you can't do it, but if you love 88 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 3: the topic, yes, you're going to have a much easier time. 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think for me, like 90 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: what made what makes it not easier, but what makes 91 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: it more I guess enjoyable, and like where it's it's 92 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: worth it for me is because because I work, you know, 93 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: with teams and athletes and corporates and organizations where I'm 94 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: literally in front of groups talking all the time about 95 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: this kind of social intelligence and social awareness that's called 96 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: matter accuracy and why that matters and how it impacts 97 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: everything from building rapport and connection and trust to leadership 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: and teamwork and synergy and culture. And I can kind 99 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: of bring my real world experience and observation into alignment 100 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: with my research and bring and have this kind of 101 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 1: synergy of academia and real world learning and real world 102 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of experience. And then I think the challenge for 103 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 1: me is and for a lot of academics I reckon 104 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: who get in front of non academic groups, is how 105 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: do I share my stuff, my thoughts and ideas and 106 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: knowledge in a way which not only is understandable but 107 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: also is valuable where people one they understand it, and 108 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: two they can operationalize it to help them without bamboozling 109 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: them with graphs and charts and data and bullshit, but 110 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: still get the truth in inverted commas across to them. 111 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: You know, that's a that's a real challenge, and I 112 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 3: think it's pretty universally understood that in order to earn 113 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: a PhD, you have to make some sort of original contribution, 114 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: now a brand new discovery, if you will. That contribut 115 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: it's something new to the field that hasn't been previously 116 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: appreciated or known, and that's that's really challenging. You know, 117 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: there's a great deal of information out there already, and 118 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: I think it's pretty consistent across disciplines. Whatever you get into, 119 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: you really need to start doing a deep dive into 120 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: everything in order to find those undiscovered nuggets of knowledge. 121 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: And like you're describing, you have to be so well read. 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: I mean, you basically have to become an expert, you know, 123 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: one of the one of the most knowledgeable people in 124 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: the world on your topic of choice, so that you 125 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: can contribute something new because you don't want to rediscover 126 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: the wheel. That's the last thing you want to spend 127 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: your time doing. Uh So, yeah, that's the inherent challenge, 128 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: and a PhD but what a reward, right, I mean, 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: at the end of the process, if you're awarded that PhD, 130 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: that really underscores the value of how you invested your time. 131 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: You've contributed something new to humanity's body of knowledge, and 132 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: that's really hard to put a praise sign. And that's 133 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: why I admire anyone who has gone through this process 134 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: and gotten a PhD, because that tells me that other 135 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: experts agree they've contributed something really impactful to their field. 136 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And it's what's interesting is, you know, my 137 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: field is psychology, right, But it's funny you come out 138 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: with a doctorate or a PhD in psychology, but if 139 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: psychology is the ocean, I'm studying a drop of water 140 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: in that ocean, you know what I mean. It's like, 141 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: oh yeah, people go, oh, so you'll be a doctor 142 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: of psychology and I go, technically yes, and they're like, 143 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: so you're like a psychologist. 144 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: No, oh, lie down on the couch and start telling 145 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: you about my childhood. 146 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: Traumas and yeah, but if you want to know anything 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: about metapceptional meta accuracy, then I'm guy. But other than that, 148 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, probably keep your childhood trauma to yourself. But yeah, 149 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: it is. It is. It's it's incredibly specific and nuanced 150 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: and trying to explain to people that, you know, here's this, 151 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: here's this beach of sand, and I'm oversee that grain 152 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: of sand over there on this beach. That's what I'm 153 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: researching for five years and many and like you said, 154 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: when I'm finished, I will be one of the experts 155 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,479 Speaker 1: in the world until about next Tuesday when I get overrun. 156 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: And when you produce your PhD thesis, there's probably only 157 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: two or three people who actually want to read the 158 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: thing because it gets so specific and so nuanced. 159 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,239 Speaker 1: Oh you know, we've we've. 160 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: Churned out over one hundred papers from my laboratory right 161 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: brand new research revolving around this parasite called toxic plasma, 162 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: and the I could probably add up all the people 163 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 3: who read all one hundred of those papers, and it 164 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: would still be dwarfed by the number of people who 165 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: might have read a popular article that I've written about it. 166 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 3: You know, I think that would be to the toward 167 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 3: a general audience. So yeah, it's pretty crazy to think 168 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 3: about it, how specific things can get. But what we 169 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: do have to keep in mind is, no matter how 170 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 3: small the part of the puzzle is that we investigate. 171 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: You can't complete the puddle without that piece. So this 172 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 3: is something I tell all my students all the time 173 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: if they start to get discouraged, no matter how small 174 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: that puzzle piece might seem to you, it is worth, 175 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: you know, mapping it out, because the puzzle can't be 176 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: completed without it, and you will be the person puts 177 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: that piece into place. So don't ever forget that. 178 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: A friend of mine the other the days said to 179 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: me a guy I grew up with, who great guy? 180 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: He said, Oh, when you finished, like we're chatting, He's like, 181 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: what are you working on today? I said, I'm just 182 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: working on my you know, one of my papers. It's 183 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: systematic literature review. What's that? And I told him and 184 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: he goes, oh wow. He goes, can I read it? 185 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: Like when you finished? Can I read it? And I go, 186 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: she don't want to read it? And he goes, no, 187 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: I really want to read it. I go, here's a 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: better idea. Let's spend ten minutes or five minutes, and 189 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: I will tell you what it's about and you'll understand 190 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: that and you'll be mildly interested. And then I read 191 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: him the abstract right and he's like, nah, I want 192 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: to read it. I read in the abstract of my paper. 193 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: He's like, nah, no, I get it all right, I 194 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: didn't really Yeah, yeah, no. So what about when you 195 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: do do you ever do corporate stuff, doc, Like, do 196 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: you get in front of non academic audiences. 197 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 3: You mean like corporate speaking and stuff? 198 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, like what talking to Yeah, whether or not 199 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: it's at corporate conferences or workshops or seminars, do that 200 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: stuff as well? Well? 201 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: We certainly do a lot of like presentations at scientific meetings, 202 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: and these are these vary on the topic. So most 203 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 3: of the meetings we go to are microbiology and nature 204 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 3: because we study a parasite, so we go to infectious 205 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: disease meetings microbiology meetings. But some of the aspects of 206 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: the parasite that we study, some of the particulars of 207 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: its biology, will take us to meetings from different disciplines. 208 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: We don't go to too many, like pharmaceutical companies because 209 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: they I don't really know if that's like a platform 210 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 3: that they offer. But I certainly run into colleagues who 211 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: work in industry at the various scientific meetings that I 212 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: told you about. 213 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: So one of the things which is probably, you know, well, 214 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: it's not probably. It's my main job in inverted commas 215 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: is is corporate speaking. But I will talk at everything 216 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: from real estate conferences to banking conferences, to medical conferences, 217 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: to blokes in prison, to you know, cricket clubs and 218 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: football clubs and elite athletes, but speaking broadly around you know, 219 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: how like human performance, how do I manage me? How 220 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: do I manage my mind, body, emotions, choices, behavior, lifestyle? 221 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: How do I get the best out of me? Right? 222 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: And so my premise for talking to you know, it's 223 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: like someone might go, so you're going to talk at 224 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: a banking conference, what the fuck do you know about banking? 225 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: I go nothing. I don't need to because I'm not 226 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: there to talk about banking. Because what I've got is 227 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: a thousand people in a room. And each of those 228 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: thousand people have got a brain and a body and 229 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: a mind and a life and a lifestyle, and all 230 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: of them make choices, and all of them have behaviors 231 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: and habits and rituals, and probably all of them overthink, 232 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: and all of them at some stage get anxious. And 233 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: all right, so there's this. Yeah, I'm not a banking expert, 234 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: but I'm not there to talk about that. I'm there 235 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: to talk about how all of those people who work 236 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: in that industry can look after themselves better. You know 237 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: the question. 238 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: You're using a different skill set there, You're you're becoming 239 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 3: more like a coach, and yeah, how do I manage 240 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: able to Yeah, it doesn't matter if they're they're bankers 241 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: or in the auto industry or what have you. You're 242 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: you're giving them transferable psychological tools that they can use 243 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: to excel in their field, no matter what it is. 244 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: So if you include my book in the realm of 245 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: what I do at the university, I have certainly given 246 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 3: talks at corporations and other places. I've been everywhere with 247 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 3: that thing. 248 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: That's what That's what I was thinking. 249 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 3: So libraries to build a books please. 250 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: To meet me? By the way, churches Yeah, yeah, well, 251 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's because well humans are in churches too, 252 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, I mean. 253 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: Everywhere absolutely, And there's just you know, there's these this 254 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 3: wonderful thirst for knowledge that I think most humans have 255 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: a curiosity. And my book, which Pleased to Meet Me, 256 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 3: is basically an own as manual for the human body 257 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 3: based on the knowledge that we currently have now and 258 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 3: you know, it's a very up to date, cutting edge 259 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 3: type of book that teaches you how genes and microbes 260 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: and psychological forces, evolutionary forces all conspire to make you 261 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: who you are. And I'm hard pressed to find any 262 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: human being that has no interest in that topic because 263 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 3: Know Thyself is one of the greatest philosophical pieces of 264 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: wisdom that has ever been put forth, and this book 265 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: teaches you how to do that. Yeah, And in the 266 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: same manner, it teaches you how other people operate, which 267 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: can you know you can leverage for good or bad? 268 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: I suppose, But it's comforting to know that the same 269 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: things that make you tick make another person tick. Okay, 270 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: So you can find some commonalities even though you might 271 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 3: be very different. You can find these biological commonalities that 272 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: explain how you got to be that type of person. 273 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: And in my mind, it engenders a lot more compassion 274 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 3: between people despite the differences. 275 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: I love that you know you can't. 276 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: Help to a large degree the type of person you became, 277 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 3: and if you understand that about yourself and you understand 278 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 3: that about someone else, you can put that on the 279 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: table as like the conversation starter. Look, we're very different. 280 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: We can respect that, but we do have a lot 281 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 3: in common. Okay, we're all human, we all have the 282 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: same wishes and aspirations, we all fear the same things, 283 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 3: and I think at the end of the day, we 284 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 3: all want to make the world a better place. So 285 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: why are we different? And how can we overcome those 286 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: differences to achieve our common goals? And that's a conversation 287 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: that needs to be had. But there's a lot of 288 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 3: people out in the world making a lot of money 289 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: by preventing that conversation from happening. 290 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting time we live in. It's very 291 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: especially right at the moment. So one of the things 292 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: I want your thoughts on this, Right, So this is 293 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: a really common Craig thing. My listeners have heard a 294 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: version of this a thousand times. Right. So when I 295 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: have a thought, if I believe the thought, you know, 296 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: and let's say the thought it's just a construct in 297 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: my mind, but it's not true. Let's say the thought 298 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: is I'm in danger, right, but I'm not actually in danger, 299 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: but I think I'm in danger. But the reality, the 300 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: real world reality, is that I'm safe. There's no threat, 301 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: I am not in danger, but I think I'm in 302 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: dangerotional kind of association with that would be fear, terror, whatever, 303 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: And then the physiological could be all the things you know, 304 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: elevated heart rate, breathing, adrenaline, cortisol, sympathetic, nervous system, all 305 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: this physiological stuff happens. So in this kind of this 306 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: myriad of events that are going on almost simultaneously, like 307 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: cognitive emotional physiological or psychological emotional physiological. Is the response 308 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: in my body caused by my thought? Or is my 309 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: genetics which is you know, my genetic disposition? Does that 310 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: determine how I think? Like, what's the direction of all 311 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: of this? Is it all at once? Is it? What 312 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Like the way that our 313 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: thinking affects our biology slash physiology and vice versa. 314 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really interesting question, kind of a biological 315 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 3: chicken or the egg type of thing. And it all 316 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 3: happens so fast that we can't perceive what the kinetics 317 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: of this possibly is. But from all I understand about 318 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 3: stress responses and so on, and I, you know, just 319 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 3: to touch on your point real quick, we invent so 320 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 3: much unnecessary stress in our lives today that it's just crazy. 321 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 3: And it stems from what I call evolutionary ghosts. Okay, 322 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 3: these are physiological things that happened to us that that 323 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: kind of prey upon our ancient stress responses, things that 324 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: would have kept us alive back when we were running 325 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 3: away from cheetahs and cougars or whatever, you know, or 326 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 3: trying to find food. Those are legitimate stresses that if 327 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 3: we didn't satisfy those drives, those needs, those anxieties, we 328 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 3: probably would have died. Okay, the survivor was on the line. 329 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 3: That's not the case for most people today, most people. Okay, 330 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: So we invent all these other stresses, mostly like their 331 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: social in nature, because we still have deep within our 332 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 3: brains these primordial drives to broadcast the best version of 333 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: ourself that we can. Okay, we're obsessed with status, We're 334 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 3: obsessed with climbing the hierarchy for these silly reasons to 335 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 3: attract a mate and dominate you know, the tribe or 336 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 3: society if you will. And we don't have to do 337 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 3: that anymore. These these are totally invented stresses and pressures 338 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 3: that we put upon ourselves. And I know it's so 339 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 3: much easier said than done. It's easier said by an 340 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: old man like me than a younger person, because those 341 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: stresses are very palpable. You know, I didn't think this 342 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: way when I was younger, but of course I didn't 343 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 3: have an appreciation for the biology behind all of it. 344 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 3: But all this excessive ambition for status, when you think 345 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: about it in biological terms, very silly and very unnecessary. 346 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 3: We can build a different world that is not based 347 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 3: on competition and you know, defeating one another, but based 348 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 3: on collaboration and cooperation. That's when humans really excel. Okay, 349 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 3: not when they compete, when they collaborate, when they cooperate 350 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: the scientific enterprise that you were describing earlier, Craig, despite 351 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 3: the fact that you plug in one small piece of 352 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 3: the puzzle that illustrates the power of the connectivity of 353 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 3: all the scientists working on the same problem. None of 354 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: us can figure it out by ourselves anymore. We rely 355 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 3: on all all the other individuals helping us. So I 356 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 3: really get frustrated with egotistical people these days, thinking that 357 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: their singular actions, you know, caused some great thing. It 358 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 3: is always built on the shoulders of giants, right, So 359 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 3: what the hell was I talking about before I went on? Okay, 360 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: the evolutionary ghosts and the astresses and the order. Okay, 361 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 3: see this is another problem of getting old. You forget 362 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 3: where your train of thought. 363 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: No, I think it's kirstin. You've got twenty seven things 364 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: going on it once up there, So yeah, go on, 365 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: evolutionary ghosts. I'm writing that down. That could be the title. 366 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was in. That was in the book 367 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 3: if people want to learn more specifics about them, and 368 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 3: I encourage people to do so, if not from my book, 369 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: from somewhere else, because you can live a much more 370 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 3: happier life once to identify the silly reason behind many 371 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 3: of our biological drives. Yeah, so here's what. Here's the 372 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: answer to your question after all of that, I think 373 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 3: you know, from my understanding of the situation is when we, 374 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 3: when our brains at a subconscious level, detect some threat, okay, 375 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 3: some you know. Let's say that you suspect that someone 376 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 3: is spreading some bad gossip about you. Okay, that's going 377 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 3: to send some kind of red alarm, you know, red 378 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 3: alert into your brain, right, and you might not know 379 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 3: why at first, but it will quickly occur to you 380 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 3: that oh my gosh, I'm feeling all this this worry 381 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: and this anger and maybe this thirst for revenge because 382 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: I believe this person is talking bad about me. Okay, 383 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: so I don't believe we think about that. The emotions 384 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 3: happen first, because those emotions are the same as if 385 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: you were to be chased by a bear. Those would 386 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 3: be the same emotion, the same biochemicals coursing through your bodies, 387 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 3: whether it's a physical threat or a psychological threat, same chemicals, 388 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: it's the same chemistry. So evolution is basically co opted 389 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 3: a primordial system that kept us alive, you know, if 390 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 3: a predator was chasing us, and it is applied it 391 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: to our social interactions, which I mean I can understand. 392 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: Back in the day, those may have been really critical 393 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 3: to your survival. You know, your status and the tribe 394 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: and the amount of resources you get, the amount of 395 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: mating opportunities and so on. You don't need to worry 396 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 3: about that in today's world. Yeah, I don't think most 397 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: people do. I mean, obviously there's some people. It's really 398 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 3: bad places where these primordial stress response pathways are still 399 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 3: going to keep them alive. But most people stress about 400 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: really really dumb things. And if you have the courage 401 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 3: to analyze your responses and think intelligently. Okay, why do 402 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 3: I feel anxious? Why do I feel angry? Oh, it's 403 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 3: because someone might be spreading gossip about me. Put a 404 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 3: pause in between your response and the emotions you feel, 405 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: and it can be short, a short, little pause, or 406 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 3: maybe you just want to sleep on it. You know, 407 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 3: that can even be better sometimes, and you'll find that 408 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 3: your responses tend to be a lot more measured, a 409 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: lot more stoic, and a lot more sensible if you 410 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 3: utilize your prefrontal cortex, which is the logical analytical part 411 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 3: of your brain, and apply it to the emotions that 412 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 3: you're feeling. Okay, I'm recognizing my emotions, but my common 413 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 3: sense is telling me this is why I'm feeling those emotions. 414 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 3: And then you can evaluate whether you really need a 415 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: drastic response or if it's no big thing. 416 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: That's why you're that's why you're doctor Bill. Yeah. What's 417 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: interesting is that, like an intellectual understanding can coexist with 418 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: an irrational emotion in the same human at the same time. 419 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: Like I might think this is ridiculous, but I might think, oh, 420 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: doctor Bill doesn't like me. Right, I'm all of a sudden, 421 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm insecure. I'm thinking doctor bild. I don't know he 422 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: said that or he looked at me that da da 423 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: da da while while probably knowing that's not true. Do 424 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But at these things, or 425 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: I could maybe a better example is, you know, I've 426 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: literally stood on a stage thousands of times. I did 427 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: my first paid speaking gig when I was twenty six. 428 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: I did lots before that for free, So thousands of 429 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: times I've been of an audience. And there are still 430 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: times when there's fear, like irrational fear, not terror. But well, 431 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: this will be the day that you fuck up, Craig. 432 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: You've been very lucky for the last thirty five years, 433 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: you know. There's that kind of a what if? What 434 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: if while having data that tells me, no, you're actually 435 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: quite good at this, you know, unemotional evidence and data, 436 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: whereas those things can coexist, and sometimes I need to 437 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: consciously just recognize the feeling without buying into the feeling, 438 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, while still not pretending that there's zero risk 439 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: and I'm guaranteed to kill it, you know. But I 440 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: think also that like when you are opening the door 441 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: on which is you're opening a Craig door, which I like, 442 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: why do I feel this way, even, why do I 443 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: think this way? Why do I respond this way? Which 444 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: is like a matter of awareness or a you know, metabception, 445 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: metacognition more accurately thinking about thinking but also thinking about emotions. 446 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: It's like that that is a real skill and a 447 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: kind of awareness to be able to in the moment, 448 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: like you said, before you react, which some we can't 449 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: always do that, but if you can find a moment 450 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: to go hang on, what is this feeling? Where is 451 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: this thought coming from? 452 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: Why? Why? 453 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: Why is my state changed? Why am I anger now? 454 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: Why am I scared? Now? Why am I overthinking? Now? 455 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: Why do I want that person that I don't know? 456 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: Why do I want their approval so desperately? What is 457 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: that about? You know, this is like a real kind 458 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: of I think, like an interpersonal and intra personal superpower 459 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: where you can understart to understand yourself because you're you know, 460 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: like understand yourself bigger than just your biology and physiology. 461 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: Understanding you know, the way that you interact with others 462 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: sociology and the way that you think about others and 463 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: think about yourself psychology, but just understanding you for you, 464 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: but also understanding you for others. You know, does that 465 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: make sense. 466 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, And I'll start by saying, I. 467 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 4: Adore you, Craig, you know, thanks whether Professor Bill likes you, 468 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 4: thank you. You know, I know you've probably lost so 469 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 4: much sleep over that, and I feel so bad that 470 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 4: I didn't make it clear. 471 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: Thank you. 472 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 3: I really do enjoy coming on here and talking to you. 473 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, Tiff. Can you make that a real please 474 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: that Doctor Bill said he adores me. So that is 475 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: going to be all over the internet in about a 476 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: six second reel very soon. Thank you. 477 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 3: I think anyone who talks to you will feel the 478 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: same way. 479 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: So now the episode is going to be called Doctor 480 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: Bill Loves Me. 481 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 3: There you go. I'm sure you'll get a lot of 482 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: listeners on that one. 483 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sorry, sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. 484 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I certainly understand, like the trepidation that 485 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 3: you still can feel and getting up in front of 486 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: an audience, even if you've done in a million times, 487 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 3: you're worried that the million in first time is going 488 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 3: to be a disaster for some reason, yes, or that 489 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: you're you know, as we get older, we're losing it 490 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: or something like that, And you know that that's perfectly natural. 491 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 3: But like you said, I love the example that you 492 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: pointed out there. You have the emotional intelligence to stop 493 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: that feeling in its tracks and analyze it and diffuse 494 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 3: it with data. Okay, you diffuse it with all the 495 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 3: other instances where you've gotten up in front of the audience, 496 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: all the other instances you felt nervous. Everything was just fine. 497 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 3: There's no real reason unless you went to the bar 498 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 3: for lunch that you're going to screw up this time. Yeah, 499 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: so calm down and have fun with it. And if 500 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 3: it is a disaster, who cares, you know, So you 501 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: have one bad day, you'll be able to recover from that. 502 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 3: We take ourselves and other people way too seriously sometimes, 503 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 3: and you know, I think this is just a part 504 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 3: of life that maybe it comes along with age, maybe 505 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: it comes by analyzing your emotions more carefully. But you 506 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 3: know that we all have one really basic thing in common. 507 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 3: And I give this advice to friends and even family 508 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 3: members who feel stressed out, and it sounds like really 509 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: really crazy advice, but I tell them, don't forget. One 510 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: day you'll be dead, that person will be dead, everybody 511 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 3: will be dead. No one's going to remember any of this, Okay, 512 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 3: in a couple billion years, the Sun will swallow the earth. 513 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 3: All of humanity will be wiped out. What are you 514 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 3: stressing for? Go out and have some fun. 515 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: And if you weren't stressed before, everyone now you are. No, 516 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: it's so like you are. You didn't say this exactly, 517 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: but and correct what I get wrong earlier. Firstly, I 518 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: agree with what you said. It's really we may yeah, 519 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: of course, and we we invent problems like if there 520 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: isn't like I've got friends, you know who you are friends. 521 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: If they don't, if nothing's wrong, they'll find something, they'll 522 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: manufacture something to worry about. They will find a needle 523 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: of negativity in a haystack of hope. 524 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, right, we have a strong negativity bias in 525 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 3: our brain. It's kept us alive, you know, back in 526 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: the day. Again, it's another one of these evolutionary ghosts. 527 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: And I think that when we think about you were 528 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: talking before about the physiological responses to perceived threat or danger, 529 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: or or maybe I was talking about what we were 530 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: talking about. But it's it's like so like some fear 531 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: is good, Like certain fears are good because they're going 532 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: to keep us alive and they make total sense and Craig, 533 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: don't put your hand in the fire, and that is 534 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: a good fear to have, or don't pick up that snake, 535 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: or don't jump off that you know, these are all intelligent, 536 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: healthy fears that make sense. But then there are irrational 537 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: fears that are almost can almost become a psychological and 538 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: emotional prison, that stop people's growth, that stop people's happiness, 539 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: that stop people's ability to socialize, you know, agoraphobia being 540 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: a classic example of people who are scared to leave 541 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: their house or to you know, like and full respect 542 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: for that, like it's a very real condition, but you know, 543 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: trying to trying to manipulate or change that physical fear 544 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: response over time. And what comes to mind for me 545 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: is I probably coached about Like I've spoken to a 546 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: lot of people about public ex speaking a lot, but 547 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: I probably coached about ten people in the last thirty 548 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: years who came to me expressly because their job required 549 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: them to talk to a group. And sometimes it was 550 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: a group of five, and sometimes it was in an 551 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: auditorium with hundreds of people, and they were somewhere between 552 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: scared and uncomfortable through to terrified. And I didn't really 553 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: have any abject failures. But what was interesting was and 554 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: it was mostly successful and some with some stellar performances 555 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: where people then almost became addicted to it because they 556 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: loved it, right, But watching people transform from doing a 557 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: thing that creates stress and anxiety and all this physical 558 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: kind of stuff happening in their body through to the 559 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: same person doing the same thing and enjoying it and 560 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: having a completely different, literal, different physiological, emotional and psychologic 561 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: experience further down the track doing the same thing and 562 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do we how do we 563 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: as individuals and we can't with everyone, but how do 564 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: we try in ourselves to create a less traumatic physical 565 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: response to some of those things that it's almost like 566 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: we are creating the trauma. 567 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I get what you're saying, and you know, just 568 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 3: to put in a disclaimer that we should distinguish that 569 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 3: there are real phobias out there that can be very paralyzing, 570 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 3: and we certainly don't mean to belittle those with this conversation, 571 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: But what you're suggesting, Craig is much more minor on 572 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 3: non clinical phobia that just slows people down on a 573 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 3: daily basis for seemingly no good reason. And you know this. 574 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 3: This I think is a is a trainable entity. There 575 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 3: are many books on how to live your life following 576 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 3: stoic philosophical principles. I have found those to be immensely helpful. 577 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 3: And for those who think stoicism is just like ignoring 578 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 3: your emotions, that's not what it is. It is basically 579 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 3: learning how to detect your emotions, appreciating them for what 580 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 3: they are and nothing more, but then utilizing your resources 581 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 3: and your intellect to evaluate those emotions and respond more productively. Okay, 582 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 3: and stoicism gives you a wide variety of psychological tools 583 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 3: that you can use to train yourself in that regard. 584 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 3: That's something most people can do in the comfort of 585 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 3: their own home and buy themselves. But if you're struggling 586 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 3: with it, stoicism is basically the foundation for CBT cognitive 587 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 3: behavioral therapy, and if you need to seek out a 588 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 3: therapist to help guide you to develop these habits, cognitive 589 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 3: behaviorable behavior therapist is what you want to seek out. 590 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 3: They will teach you how to put that space in 591 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 3: between your emotions and your response. It's pretty remarkable that 592 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 3: CBT is a relatively recent psychological phenomenon of psychological practice, 593 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 3: but it really has its roots two thousand years ago 594 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 3: with the Greek and Roman Stoic philosophers. I just find 595 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 3: that fascinating. They figured this out so long ago and 596 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 3: we just kind of rediscovered it now. And it's a 597 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 3: good thing because, like you said in your examples, Craig, 598 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: there's so many people worrying over such minutia and trivial things, 599 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 3: and I know they can seem really written to you 600 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 3: in the moment, but if you can learn to reevaluate 601 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 3: some of those feelings that are being generated by your body, 602 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 3: you really can get better at it and develop more 603 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 3: productive responses down the road. 604 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about you know, obviously the stoics 605 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: and philosophers and theologians and in different cultures gurus like 606 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: they've been around forever, not literally but a long long time, 607 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: but in the evolutionary timeline, like psychology is five minutes old. 608 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, we all grew up going all psychology psychology, 609 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: but for most of most of humanity it wasn't even 610 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't even a thing. I think eighteen seventy that 611 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 1: the term was coined, or I think the first kind 612 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: of what they would call psychological research. I forget the 613 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: guy's name. It was a German dude, but psychology as 614 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: a field of study and research, and even that name, 615 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: it's five minutes old. And then you think about as 616 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: you say, what Socrates and Marcus Aurelius and you know, 617 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: all of those dudes and some do that, So I'm 618 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: sure we're talking about two two and a half thousand 619 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: years ago. It was really is really the foundation of 620 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: so much wisdom around just being a human, what it 621 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: is to be a human and to interact with other humans, 622 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: and to learn how to self regulate and self manage 623 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: and mind your mind and mind your emotions and mind 624 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: your behaviors. Like none of this stuff that we're talking 625 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: about today is even remotely new. 626 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 3: You know, it's been you would know, yeah, I mean, 627 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 3: and none of us knew. 628 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: It's like that, you know, the beginning of wisdom is 629 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: to know, because my you know, to know thyself, which 630 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: is I think two and a half thousand years old. 631 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: That quote, give or take depending on you know, and 632 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 1: that was I've taken it out, but that was. That 633 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: was the first sentence in my in the intro to 634 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: my thesis. It might go back in, but it's funny 635 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: you quote all of these researchers. It's like, you know, 636 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: da da da our twenty twenty one. And then you 637 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: go Socrates five hundred BC. Yeah, two words myself. Yeah, 638 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: likely all you need to do. 639 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 3: But yeah, but you know, there's that know thyself seems 640 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 3: like a simple freeze, and it's a valuable one, but 641 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: there's a lot to unpack there. 642 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: That's that's right. It's like it's like it's analogous to 643 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: saying to somebody, you know, don't worry. It's like, well, 644 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: that's cool, but I need a bit more than that. Yeah, 645 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: because that's not a strategy or a plan. There's no. 646 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: That's almost like an instruction, as know thy self is. 647 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: It's it's a good instruction, but then we need a 648 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: little bit more to know. Yeah. Good, okay, I get that, 649 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: But what does that mean? And how do I do that? 650 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, as Bobby McFerrin would say, you know, don't worry, 651 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 3: be happy, you know, which is another Okay, Well how 652 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 3: do I do that? And there are tools out there 653 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 3: that can help you that. The whole realm of positive 654 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 3: psychology is kind of centered on these principles that recognize 655 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 3: that human brains probably all primate brains have a strong 656 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 3: negativity bias. It was good for you when you were 657 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 3: being chased by predators and looking for food and trying 658 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 3: to survive the elements. We don't live in that world anymore. 659 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: So what we. 660 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 3: Waste a lot of that stress on is our social interactions. 661 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 3: And I'm not trying to diminish the importance of our 662 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 3: social interactions, but there are things that we do in 663 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 3: society that we should analyze before pursuing them. This relentless 664 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 3: pursuit up up the ladder of success for what, you know, 665 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 3: get to a rung where you're comfortable, and then just 666 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 3: start living your life. You know. Don't let life pass 667 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 3: you by trying to reach up for another rung on 668 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 3: this endless ladder, you know. So that's just one really 669 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 3: important lesson you can learn and when you embrace some 670 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 3: of these principles, and it certainly doesn't mean that you 671 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 3: can just sit back on your couch, kick off your 672 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 3: shoes and just you know, rest for the remainder of 673 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 3: your life. That's not really what positive psychology it's about. 674 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 3: It's about channeling your efforts and your energies into more 675 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 3: productive things than worry and anxiety, because that doesn't help anything. 676 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 3: It just shortens your life and it makes you miserable. 677 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 3: You can extract the energy that's being put into those 678 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 3: feelings and put it into something tangible, Okay, that's really 679 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 3: going to make a difference. You know, maybe you can 680 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 3: rate something, maybe you can go march for a cause, 681 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 3: maybe you can get into politics. You can channel those 682 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 3: energies into something that's going to to help solve the problem. 683 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah. We we do have a capacity 684 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: to invest a lot of energy and things that we 685 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: can't control or change. And there's I don't know if 686 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: I've mentioned this to you, but there was a lady 687 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: who recently brought out a book. Sorry everyone that you've 688 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 1: heard this twenty times, but it's called Bad Therapy Buyer, 689 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: an author and a researcher called Abigail Schreier, and she 690 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,360 Speaker 1: talks about you know that that some for some people, 691 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: talk therapy is not great because it means every Tuesday 692 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: they go and sit down with you know, Brian or 693 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: Gail and talk about the same stuff they talked about 694 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: the last ninety two sessions. Some people, of course, it's 695 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: more than that, but for some people that's not the best. 696 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: But I also think back to your you know, the 697 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: success ladder, Like I think part of the challenge and 698 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: I know we've got to wind up soon, but part 699 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: of the challenge is because most of us me anyway. 700 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: And I'm sure Tiff, I don't know about you, Doc, 701 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,280 Speaker 1: but we kind of grew up in Australia. The culture 702 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: and the collective mindset is that success is about stuff. 703 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: It's about things. It's about you know, what you have 704 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 1: and what you earn, and what your own, and what 705 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: you drive and where you live and what people think 706 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 1: to you, what people say about you, and your brand 707 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: and your credibility and your academic achievements and your bank 708 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: balance and your body and like, it's about all of 709 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: these external things. And we have this. When I have, 710 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: I will be successful when and then you get to there. 711 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 1: And I did this when I was fortunate in that 712 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: I kind of had some success when I was in 713 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: my early thirties, and by the time I was in 714 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: my early thirties, I was more commercially success tesful then 715 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: I ever thought I would be in my life. But 716 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, I was maybe the most sad 717 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: and anxious and not sleeping, And I'm like, how does 718 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: this work. I'm in inverted commas successful. So externally, from 719 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: there outside looking in, my life's Hollywood and people would 720 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: say you're killing it. You're going oh, and I'll be 721 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: like yeah, And then but internally I'm like, why do 722 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: I feel like shit? And I think that the you know, 723 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,040 Speaker 1: this story that we have is when I own that 724 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: or do this or achieve that or look like that, 725 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: then I will be the opposite of everything. You know, 726 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: I won't be anxious, I will be calm, I will 727 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: be joyful, I will sleep well, I won't be insecure. 728 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,879 Speaker 1: All of these great and then you do those things 729 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,839 Speaker 1: and you're like, none of that's true. I'm still insecure. 730 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:55,799 Speaker 1: You know. 731 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 3: You can see that example plead out in many celebrities 732 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 3: who are so miserable they turned to drugs and alcohol 733 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 3: in order to escape what from the outside looks like 734 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 3: a glorious life. But like you said, they're miserable, and 735 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 3: no amount of money, no amount of houses or boats 736 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 3: or jewelry, none of that can satiate the human desire 737 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 3: for more. And I think culture has a lot to 738 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 3: do with this, because, like you said, we are raised 739 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 3: in this culture that your value in life is based 740 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 3: on what's in your checkbook or what's in your bank, 741 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 3: and that's total bullshit. Your measure your value in life 742 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 3: is the character that you exude, okay, and how you 743 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 3: treat other people in your life. That's what and scientific 744 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 3: studies have backed up what philosophers and many theologians have 745 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 3: been telling us for years. The key to happiness is 746 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 3: not in external things like money and cars and jewelry. 747 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 3: It's in internal things. And what that means, of my 748 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 3: understanding of it is it's how you, you know, build 749 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,399 Speaker 3: your character and recognize someone else's character. It's basically being 750 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 3: good to yourself, allowing yourself to you know, to feel 751 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 3: pleasure from very simple things, and you know, extending that 752 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 3: same kindness to another person. Many studies have shown that gratitude, humility, 753 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 3: and generosity are much more likely to make you feel 754 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 3: not only temporary happiness, but sustained contentment than any amount 755 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 3: of money or luxury. 756 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it's I think like we think that, 757 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: of course, because that's how we're all programmed that money 758 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,440 Speaker 1: equals wealth. And I'm like, well, money's a race. Money's 759 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,879 Speaker 1: not bad, by the way, of course, like lots of money. Cool. 760 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: If somebody said Craig, you can get paid X tomorrow 761 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: or ten X. I'm choosing ten X. But I'm not 762 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,360 Speaker 1: thinking that ten X is going to make me a 763 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: better human and a better person or a happier person 764 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: necessarily at all. But I talk about wealth in terms 765 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: of like social wealth, emotional wealth, spiritual wealth, and psychological wealth, 766 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: and looking at those bank balances or those those kind 767 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: of that kind of you know, because as you say, 768 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 1: and of course there's a practical reality. We've got to 769 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: pay the bills and feed the kids and send them 770 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: to school, of course, but there is a you know, 771 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: there is definitely a kind of an internal kind of 772 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: ledger as well. Hey mate, we've got to go. One 773 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: of my proudest moments on this podcast in seventeen hundred 774 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: and eight episodes is getting you to say bullshit. So 775 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: thank you. Couldn't be prouder. Couldn't be prouder if I 776 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,879 Speaker 1: opened the swearing door about a year and a half 777 00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: ago and he just finally walked through it. So my 778 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: work is done. Thank you everybody. This will be my 779 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: last and it won't be mate. So doctor Bill's book 780 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: is Pleased to meet me Jeans, Germs and the Curious 781 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 1: forces that make us who we are. If people want 782 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: to follow you or connect with you, do you want 783 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: them to do that? And if so, how do they 784 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: do that? 785 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, they can find me at author Bill Sullivan 786 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:22,840 Speaker 3: dot com. 787 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,760 Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, we'll say goodbye here, but for the moment, 788 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,920 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook, thank you, Thanks guys, doctor Bill, thank you. 789 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 3: My pleasure.