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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, we deliver our driver rankings for the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season and have a little look ahead

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Speaker 1: as who we expect to excel in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: My name is Michael Lomonado. It's great to have your

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Speaker 1: company and the company of my co host. He's had

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Speaker 1: one weekend off motorsport and he's ready for another twenty

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Speaker 1: four round Formula one season. It's Matt Clayton.

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Speaker 2: I'll be ready in about an other twenty four weekends

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Speaker 2: if I can have a weekend like last weekend. But

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Speaker 2: it is strange when the season finishes, because you do

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Speaker 2: things like look up and go, oh, it's nearly Christmas,

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Speaker 2: and other things that normal people in the world actually do.

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Speaker 2: Hadn't actually occurred to me until Abi Dhabi was in

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Speaker 2: the rear view. But yes, the perpetual Formula one season.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to determine where one stops and one finishes

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Speaker 2: these days, is it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, especially now because it is only about a

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Speaker 1: month until testing starts and that we can't launches and

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Speaker 1: all sorts before then, So really the off season very brief.

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Speaker 1: Pity all the poor mechanics will get almost to no

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Speaker 1: Christmas break at all. But that's a story for another day,

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Speaker 1: because we are still looking back on the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five season, which ended only a week ago. Didn't know

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Speaker 1: surprise listening to the podcast, but Lando Noras did win

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Speaker 1: the World Championship in Abu Dhabi last week. But this

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Speaker 1: isn't so much about the championship order. This is you

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Speaker 1: can call it what you like, power rankings, personal ratings,

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Speaker 1: the expression of vendettas against drivers, whatever you like. We've

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Speaker 1: come up with the order, and we're going to take

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Speaker 1: you through our top ten drivers, plus of course most

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Speaker 1: improved and who we think might improve a great deal.

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Speaker 3: Next year or not.

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Speaker 1: But I thought we'd start Matt actually outside the top ten.

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Speaker 1: We will run through our bottom tens or elevens, I suppose,

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Speaker 1: as there were drivers this season a little bit later

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Speaker 1: on in brief, but I thought we'd start with some

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Speaker 1: honorable and also dishonorable mentions before we get into the

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Speaker 1: top ten performers of the according to us, Would you

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Speaker 1: like to kick us off?

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Speaker 2: The glass is often half empty for me when I

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Speaker 2: start looking at the back end of the points table.

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Speaker 2: At this point, so I'll go I'll give you a

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Speaker 2: dishonorable mention. And this one may surprise as you. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't fit Alex Albon in my top ten. Oh and

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Speaker 2: a bit of controversy straight off the bat here and

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Speaker 2: the statistical case for this. He scored nineteen points in

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Speaker 2: the final ten rounds. He did not score at all

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Speaker 2: in the final eight Grand Prix of the year. And

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Speaker 2: you know, slight spoiler alert here relative to the driver

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Speaker 2: in the other car, once the car became quite decent

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Speaker 2: and the other driver in the same car got his

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Speaker 2: feet under the table and got accustomed to what he

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Speaker 2: was doing, it was very much one way traffic, which

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Speaker 2: was a story that we didn't see in the first

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Speaker 2: half of the year. And there's always going to be

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Speaker 2: a degree of recencydvice when it comes to these sorts

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Speaker 2: of lists, because you know, what happened more recently is

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Speaker 2: going to be more stuck in my head than something

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Speaker 2: that happened in April, for example. But I tried, and

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Speaker 2: we'll get to the top ten a bit later on,

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Speaker 2: but I couldn't quite squeeze him in. So judging by

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Speaker 2: your reaction, he might be in yours. But do you

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Speaker 2: have an honorable or dishonorable mention because there's one very

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Speaker 2: obvious one that I haven't mentioned. I think he may

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Speaker 2: be about to come up, so.

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Speaker 1: I give it think away about my top ten, unless

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Speaker 1: we spoil the top ten. But I thought, yes, well,

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Speaker 1: big call to start it off with. But I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go for the obvious call because I

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Speaker 1: don't think we'll have a chance to talk about him

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Speaker 1: when we run through our bottom ten. And that's Lewis Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: A dishonorable mention for me. I never thought he'd be

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Speaker 1: in here.

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Speaker 3: Now I don't.

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Speaker 1: I think if you go back, I wish i'd actually

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Speaker 1: look this up to our mid season driver rankings. I

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Speaker 1: think he was also just outside our top tens, but

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Speaker 1: I think he was around eleventh, which was a sort

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Speaker 1: of like one nut sprint in China. A bit of

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Speaker 1: a shaky European season, but there were some signs of

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Speaker 1: hope in what was always going to be a long transition.

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Speaker 1: Those signs of hope I think were thoroughly extinguished the

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Speaker 1: longer the season went, I think, And you can cut

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Speaker 1: this dishonorable mention. In many ways, he was pretty much

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Speaker 1: thrashed by char Leclair pretty comprehensively.

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Speaker 3: Not always.

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Speaker 1: There were races in which he was thereabouts and there

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Speaker 1: was some positive signs, but the longer it went on,

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Speaker 1: the worse it got. And I think you can also

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Speaker 1: then say it was a dishonorable mention for the fact that,

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Speaker 1: as we've seen from Lewis Hamilton in previous seasons, he

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Speaker 1: puts his head and look, there's nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 1: When I guess you're a seven time champion, you're not

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Speaker 1: really interested in competing for as Ferrari was fifth and

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Speaker 1: sixth and third in the championship. But I think, considering

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Speaker 1: the stakes, considering the profile of his move to Ferrari,

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Speaker 1: considering the narrative that was forming around him at the

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Speaker 1: team and the team generally, I think to put your

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Speaker 1: head down for the last month or so, it seemed

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Speaker 1: to be the case. He had a decent last race

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Speaker 1: in Abu Dhabi, I guess, But nonetheless I think is

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Speaker 1: warrants a dishonorable mention In my.

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Speaker 2: Book, yeah, I agree, And mid season I think personally

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Speaker 2: I might have snuck him into the back end of

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Speaker 2: the top ten, perhaps with some optimism or almost as

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Speaker 2: a bit of a legacy play, because you just thought, well,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to get worse than this. It's been

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Speaker 2: a bit underwhelming, but it's going to famous last words,

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Speaker 2: it's going to get better. And the thing for me

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Speaker 2: now is that if you had to say, which of

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Speaker 2: these two outcomes is more likely, is he closer to

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Speaker 2: the eighth world title that he was two laps away

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Speaker 2: from winning in twenty twenty one, or is he closer

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Speaker 2: to retirement? And you know, given his age and the

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Speaker 2: underwhelming results and what we've got coming up in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six, if things aren't looking great for Ferrari early

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, you know, you would suggest that

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to hang around a really

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Speaker 2: long time trying to resurrect this, because the back end

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Speaker 2: of this year was just so dire, and he was

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Speaker 2: so downcast by the entire thing. And you think about

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Speaker 2: all the hype, and I mean the famous the photo

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Speaker 2: of him outside Enzo's house at the at the start

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Speaker 2: of the year is like, oh my god, this thing

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Speaker 2: is this thing transcend sport. This is massive, and it

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Speaker 2: was just so underwhelming and it wasn't great at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: but you thought, well, it's going to get better and

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Speaker 2: he just did the opposite.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It is the there was no shortage of

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Speaker 1: expectations and hype at the start of the year. And look,

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Speaker 1: some of this is owned by Ferrari, which had a

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Speaker 1: really dreadful year, no wins this season, even for Charlotte Claire's.

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Speaker 1: We want to get a high level and I think

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Speaker 1: the question going into next year we've talked about before

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Speaker 1: and I mentioned this only briefly. Let's just become a

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Speaker 1: twenty six preview, but is how seriously is Ferrari taking

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Speaker 1: the things that Hamilton's saying it needs to improve on

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Speaker 1: or do differently to become a title winning team, Because

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Speaker 1: it's clear it's not the half a step away from

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Speaker 1: it that I thought it was at the end of

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Speaker 1: last year. There's clear a lot more work that needs

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Speaker 1: to be done there. To not listen to him despite

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Speaker 1: his underwhelming season, I think risks not only getting out

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Speaker 1: and not only not getting the best out of him

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Speaker 1: next year, but potentially condemning the team to another cycle

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Speaker 1: of rules in which it achieves nothing. And probably then

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Speaker 1: I would guess, although you ever want to save a

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Speaker 1: certain losers Charlotte Clair, at which point, what's Ferrari got

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Speaker 1: other than history.

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Speaker 3: I guess history is a lot something there.

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Speaker 1: Completely Look, before we get too the top ten, should

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Speaker 1: we give an honorable mention as well? I feel like

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Speaker 1: we've started the show with so much negativity and what's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a ranking of the best performers of

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Speaker 1: the season. Have we've got an honorable mention before we

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Speaker 1: get into the top ten?

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Speaker 2: I've got an honorable mention for someone that didn't make it,

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Speaker 2: because it was this person was probably the hardest to

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Speaker 2: leave out because there were high points were really really

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Speaker 2: high and Nikot Holkenberg didn't make my top ten. And

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Speaker 2: in a season where he finally, finally, finally took belated,

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Speaker 2: made a podium at Silveston for sober and the two

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Speaker 2: things I'll always remember out of that podium was that

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Speaker 2: he came from nineteenth on the grid to finish third

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Speaker 2: with all the chances that he'd had to finish on

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Speaker 2: the podium before he gets one from nineteenth on the

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Speaker 2: grid in a crazy race. And also they gave him

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Speaker 2: a trophy made out of lego, So you wait two

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Speaker 2: hundred and thirty nine races to get your first Grand

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Speaker 2: Peri podium trophy and they give you one that you

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Speaker 2: can break into small pieces. They should have just very

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Speaker 2: quietly on the side of he's a real trophy for you.

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Speaker 2: We know you've been waiting about fifteen years for this thing.

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Speaker 2: Sorry for the sponsor's product. So he gets an oral

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Speaker 2: mention from me because his high points this year were really,

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Speaker 2: really quite high. The weird thing about that podium, by

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Speaker 2: the way, you know, he didn't score for the next

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Speaker 2: six grod Prix after that, so it was one of

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Speaker 2: those you know, the high points were high, and I'm

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Speaker 2: actually quite glad that he got the podium because it

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Speaker 2: would have been a bit of an injustice, frankly, if

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Speaker 2: he'd gone through his entire career without getting a podium

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Speaker 2: because of his qualit relatives to some of the people

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Speaker 2: who have got podiums in Formula one over the years.

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Speaker 2: So he's an honorable mention because I was glad that

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Speaker 2: he broke that record that he broke. I think he's

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Speaker 2: like one hundred and thirty odd races more than second

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Speaker 2: on the list in terms of a wait for their

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Speaker 2: first podium, So I'm glad that it happened. But that

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Speaker 2: can be the consolation prize that an Allego Trophy because

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Speaker 2: you didn't make my top ten. But is there any

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Speaker 2: one that you would like to give a positive hat

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Speaker 2: tip to before we get to the top ten.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Also just outside my top ten was Liam Lawson who

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Speaker 1: had a pretty up and down season but saved his career,

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Speaker 1: improved a lot late despite that dreadful two races with

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Speaker 1: Threadbull Racing and maybe needing a month or two to

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Speaker 1: sort of rebuild himself at Racing Bulls and did take

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Speaker 1: an upgrade as well, which had tell him a lot

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Speaker 1: in Austria. But I like the way end of the year.

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Speaker 1: I like that he didn't let it smash him when

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Speaker 1: it could so easily have. And then all be talking

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Speaker 1: about is that Liam Lawson who kind of got one

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Speaker 1: and two separate other stints one season, two separate other

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Speaker 1: since for his career never really got a shot. His

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Speaker 1: reward is presumably a full preseason and season with one team,

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Speaker 1: which is very exciting for him, and then a chance

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Speaker 1: to establish himself probably the daughter Red Bull Racing is closed,

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Speaker 1: notwithstanding that there's been massive management changes there that for

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Speaker 1: all we know may look at him again, because we

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Speaker 1: know Holbert Marco and Christian Horner certainly wouldn't have in

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Speaker 1: these circumstances, but nonetheless, if you can establish himself, we've

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Speaker 1: seen that drivers acted by Red Bull racing or even

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Speaker 1: racing bulls can go on to pretty fulsome and successful

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Speaker 1: careers elsewhere in Formula one. So I'm putting him in

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Speaker 1: as an honorable mention.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's completely fair, and isn't it like

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Speaker 2: it just speaks to the complete dysfunction of the whole

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Speaker 2: Red Bull Racing thing this year, where that's about the

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Speaker 2: third or fourth silliest thing that's happened to Red Bull

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Speaker 2: this year, getting rid of a driver after two races,

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Speaker 2: and of course it turned out to be a poisoned

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Speaker 2: chalice because the driver that replaced him is not going

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Speaker 2: to be on the grid next year. So maybe getting

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Speaker 2: dubbed after two races was the best thing that happened

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Speaker 2: to lem Laws of this year.

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Speaker 1: Yes, tremendous and remarkable. Let's get into the countdown now,

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Speaker 1: though we've had our mentions enough, we want to get

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Speaker 1: into the main event. The drivers who made out top ten,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the first pick here. We're

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Speaker 1: going to be alternating, much as we did in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the season. In picks forming out. I guess

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Speaker 1: our dream teams will be five apiece, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to give you the first one as well, because I

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Speaker 1: suspect strongly that we have the same first pick. So

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Speaker 1: let's get the non controversial ones out of the way.

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Speaker 2: Let me get a little disclaimer out of the way

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Speaker 2: before we start this. Now, this is not as simply

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Speaker 2: as looking at the championship table and saying, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: A is better than B and B is better than C.

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Speaker 2: There's context here with what you're driving, the expectations that

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Speaker 2: come with what you're driving, your career, experience, where you've

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Speaker 2: been previously. And this was an interesting year for me

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Speaker 2: in that I felt that there's a top four that

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Speaker 2: can be in whatever order you choose, but they can

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Speaker 2: only be in the top four. And then there's a

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Speaker 2: fifth driver who's just in this category of one that

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Speaker 2: has a very mysterious name that we can get to

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Speaker 2: at some point. And then after that, I kept finding

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Speaker 2: reasons to not put number six was the hardest person

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Speaker 2: to choose on this list because I'm going, oh, I

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Speaker 2: don't know I like you, but I think I like

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Speaker 2: you more than somebody else. It was a strange year

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Speaker 2: in that regard, it six to ten became a all right,

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Speaker 2: who do I dislike least most of the time. But

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Speaker 2: to my mind, there can only be number one one,

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Speaker 2: a number one driver on this list, and I think

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Speaker 2: the gap between this particular driver and whoever you have

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Speaker 2: at number two is bigger than it's ever been in

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Speaker 2: the past five years. And that has to be Max

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Speaker 2: for Stappen. And you know, the question came after Abi

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Speaker 2: Dhabi when he just lost a title by two points.

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Speaker 2: You know, is this the best version of Max of

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Speaker 2: Stappen we've ever seen? It was put to him after that,

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Speaker 2: and he didn't disagree with the notion because the context

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Speaker 2: of what he was able to do with what he

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Speaker 2: was driving, and we mentioned before the complete dysfunction behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes there and everything else that was going on.

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Speaker 2: He was the only person, to my mind, that could

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Speaker 2: have taken that set of circumstances and almost stolen a

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Speaker 2: championship out of it. I think it's a pretty cast

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Speaker 2: iron case for number one. And I go back to

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Speaker 2: you know, there are a few races this year that

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Speaker 2: the one that I sticks with me because it was

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Speaker 2: so so long ago. That's Suzuka Weekend and the way

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Speaker 2: he executed that that car had absolutely no business being

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Speaker 2: on pole position at Suzuka, and he nailed as probably

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Speaker 2: the qualifying lap of the year to get pole position,

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Speaker 2: and then that was all dependent on well, you've got

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Speaker 2: track position. It's hard to pass here. But these two

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Speaker 2: guys behind you in Norris and Piastri have got much

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Speaker 2: much better machinery. You have to be faultless for fifty

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Speaker 2: three laps, and he was completely faultless. We know that

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Speaker 2: he came home with that massive run towards the end

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Speaker 2: of the season when he was one hundred and four

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Speaker 2: points down, but there was that early season reminder when

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Speaker 2: things work going particularly well, it's like, man, this guy

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Speaker 2: has just got a level that just gets better by

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Speaker 2: the year. And yet best version we've seen, I would say, yes,

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Speaker 2: and number one on this list, I would say it

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Speaker 2: wasn't particularly close.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. To the end of the season,

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Speaker 1: with more wins and polls than either Land of Norris

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Speaker 1: and Oscar Piastre, that was, you know, let's say nine

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Speaker 1: races out of ten comfortably a better car speaks volumes

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Speaker 1: to where he's at in his career. To be only

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Speaker 1: two short of the championship. You know, to be only

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Speaker 1: one Lando Norris bad overtake or a big defense from

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Speaker 1: let's say Uki Sinota anyone else from the championship is

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Speaker 1: pretty substantial. And you're speaking of Yuki Sonoda. Okay, not

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Speaker 1: many people rated him too much this year, but to

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Speaker 1: be twenty one zero in races and twenty three zero

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Speaker 1: in qualifying, well that includes Early and Lawson in fact,

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Speaker 1: that statistic anyway, twenty two zero. I suppose we know

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Speaker 1: Sonoda is not that bad. We know he's not hopeless,

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Speaker 1: he's not a rookiehues turned up in form on, doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what he's doing. Some of that percentages, of course,

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Speaker 1: the Redell racing can not being good for anyone other

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Speaker 1: than Max. But a lot of it is just that

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Speaker 1: the Stappen is the best guy out there at the moment.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's very much or in fact, any

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Speaker 1: doubt about that. And had he won the championship again,

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Speaker 1: any of the top three in the championship would have

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Speaker 1: been deserving champion for their own reasons. But the size

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Speaker 1: of that comeback, the way that he made, to my mind,

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Speaker 1: only one mistake for the entire year. Yes, it was

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Speaker 1: an ugly one hitting George Russell and well he could

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Speaker 1: argue that custom the title, but so true, as he

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Speaker 1: argues did the fact that Red Bull Racing decidantly wasn't

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Speaker 1: it the races for the first half of the season

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Speaker 1: a remarkably complete performance.

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Speaker 2: Can I give you one stat before I throw to

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Speaker 2: you for number two on your list? And this is

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Speaker 2: just something overritten elsewhere recently, so I'm going to steal

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Speaker 2: from that. I was looking. I was looking at a

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Speaker 2: percentage of points for the drivers within each team. You

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Speaker 2: look at the top three teams in this year's Constructors Championship.

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Speaker 2: Lando Norris contributed fifty one percent of McLaren's score. Shows

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Speaker 2: you how close it was with Osco Piastre. George Russell

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Speaker 2: contributed sixty eight percent of Mercedes total score. Max fors

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Speaker 2: Stappen contributed ninety three percent of Red Bulls total score

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Speaker 2: in the Constructors Championship this year, and that was up

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Speaker 2: from seventy four percent last year. And the crazy stat

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Speaker 2: about it is that Isaac Hajar is going to be

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00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 2: Max vers Stappin's sixth different teammates since Daniel Rocardo left

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Speaker 2: at the end of twenty eighteen, and in twenty eighteen,

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00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 2: Riccardo scored forty one percent of Red Bulls points. Since

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Speaker 2: that season, for Stappan has scored at East sixty four

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Speaker 2: percent of his team's points for six straight years. It's

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00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 2: an incredible demonstration of they haven't been able to solve

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Speaker 2: the problem since Riccardo left, But by the same token,

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Speaker 2: it just shows you how good this guy is and

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Speaker 2: being able to drag a car that had no business

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Speaker 2: fighting for a world championship into a world championship fight.

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Speaker 2: But now that we've both agreed on number one, this

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Speaker 2: is where I believe the disagreements will start. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to throw to you for number two because I'm

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Speaker 2: almost certain that we're going to have a different name here.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll be interested to find out, because for me,

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Speaker 1: thinking about the season as a whole, the significance of

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Speaker 1: this season to various drivers, quite aside from the championship battle,

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Speaker 1: because realistically it's shocking that three drivers are in the

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Speaker 1: championship battle, but there were only three in the championship battle.

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Speaker 1: For me, my second best performer of the year was

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Speaker 1: George Russell at Mercedes Okay, never got a sniff at

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Speaker 1: the championship, only got two wins, both from pole position,

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Speaker 1: both attracks that shouldn't have suited the Mercedes, but for

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Speaker 1: some reason an unexpectedly did. But the other thing at a

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Speaker 1: con next of his season right replacing Lewis Hamilton quite

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Speaker 1: explicitly as the senior driver for Mercedes the team you

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Speaker 1: probably wasn't going to be entitled contention this year, but

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Speaker 1: of course every year for Mercedes needs to be respectable,

365
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Speaker 1: that it needs to be building up to something big

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Speaker 1: next year when the regulation changes, the team hopes will

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Speaker 1: bring it back to twenty fourteen, essentially back to the

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Speaker 1: top of the pile. Made very few mistakes. I think

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Speaker 1: what I was most impressed by with his season compared

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Speaker 1: to previous years is that where as in previous years

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Speaker 1: when he should have been in a position to take

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Speaker 1: poland take the victory, he'd usually fumble. A lot of

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Speaker 1: his victories would turn up on races where suddenly halfway

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Speaker 1: through he was in contention, and then he'd be really effective.

375
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Speaker 1: It was almost as if the scale of the moment

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Speaker 1: in previous years put him off his game, and that

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Speaker 1: certainly sort of the whispers you hear, sort of like

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Speaker 1: he then tries to take too many variables into his

379
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Speaker 1: own control and then would fumble at that time. This

380
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Speaker 1: year was totally the opposite. On the team's best weekends,

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Speaker 1: On his best weekends, he was perfect. He made no mistakes,

382
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: perfectly managed those wins in Canada and in Singapore, and

383
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Speaker 1: did every other weekend realistically, even wins weren't on the table.

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Speaker 1: Was very solid and very dependable. I think the scale

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Speaker 1: of his step up this year, and Turtle's spoken about it,

386
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Speaker 1: makes him second best performer for me. We can talk

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Speaker 1: about his reference to Kimi out to now. He doesn't

388
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Speaker 1: mean too much considering he's a rookie, but also pretty

389
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 1: clearly had a handle on him, and I think that

390
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Speaker 1: still counts for something, even if less than other teammates.

391
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Speaker 1: So he's my second best of the season.

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Speaker 2: You make a very compelling argument, not compelling enough for

393
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 2: me to change my list. One. You make a very

394
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Speaker 2: very compelling argument. The only driver to finish every Grand

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Speaker 2: Prix this year finished all twenty four there you twenty

396
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Speaker 2: three of them in the points, so that was massively impressive.

397
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 2: But I agree with you the point you just made

398
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,160
Speaker 2: then about in the past, perhaps he would blink when

399
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 2: the opportunities arose and we can skim through my thoughts

400
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 2: on Russell now because there's no need to revisit them

401
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: later on. But I think what you just mentioned then

402
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Speaker 2: about the fact that he now will take the opportunities

403
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Speaker 2: where in the past he may have fumbled him. And

404
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 2: there's a couple that you think about in previous years.

405
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Speaker 2: There was that in twenty four, I guess, but years

406
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 2: will bleed into one, the year that he was on

407
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,479
Speaker 2: pole in Canada and it was just all a bit

408
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 2: sort of limp and a bit messy at the last corner.

409
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 2: And then Singapore's the other one that got away, isn't

410
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,439
Speaker 2: it in twenty three, So there's a couple there, But

411
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 2: that wasn't in his game at all this year. And

412
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,159
Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting to I wonder what impact the

413
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 2: fact that he was absolutely the team leader at Mercedes

414
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Speaker 2: this time, with no doubt, even though he was actually

415
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 2: the better scoring Mercedes driver last year too. But it

416
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 2: was never really it was never really felt like it

417
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Speaker 2: was his team because quite rightly, Lewis Hamilton had won

418
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 2: six World championships there and he was always going to

419
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Speaker 2: be seen as the other guy. But I had George

420
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Speaker 2: Russell third on my list Michaels, So did we go

421
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 2: the disagreements begin? Let the disagreements begin, because to my mind,

422
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Speaker 2: number two, it has to be Lando Norris, because he

423
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: did win the World Championship, and yet I still have

424
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 2: more questions than I have answers here, simply because we

425
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 2: sort of touched on this a bit last week when

426
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 2: we were talking about what sort of a champion he's

427
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 2: going to become. It's weird that these past fifteen years

428
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 2: have been a succession of eras you know, Sebastian Vetter

429
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 2: won four titles in a row, Hamilton won sixty seven

430
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 2: years for Stafford, one for all in a row. I

431
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 2: don't see Norris as being that kind of driver. I

432
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: don't see a sustained period of dominance here. But I

433
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Speaker 2: think you've got to give him an enormous amount of

434
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Speaker 2: credit for after Zanvorch. There was this feeling when he

435
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 2: was thirty four points behind us, like, well, we kind

436
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 2: of know how this ends, don't we. And there was

437
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: that sense that, oh, here goes, Lando is going to

438
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 2: drop the ball and it's all going to be a

439
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 2: bit difficult, and he's bit brutal and everything else. I

440
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 2: go back to Mexico and Brazil where he won three

441
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: races if you include the sprint race in South palat

442
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: but in such dominant style across that fortnite there, that

443
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 2: to my mind is the evolution of a guy who

444
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 2: eventually became the world champion, because I'm not sure that

445
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 2: level of maybe robustness and ability to dig in would

446
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: have been there previously. And yes, they clearly had the

447
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 2: best car McLaren. They won the constructors title with six

448
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 2: rounds to go. But to my mind, that evolution of

449
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 2: being able to deliver when things were looking a little

450
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 2: bit dire. And yes, we talked about the footsteps that

451
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: he heard with Max, with Stappen and he just about

452
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,880
Speaker 2: got it done in Abu Dhaby, but he did get

453
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 2: it done. And you know, do I think he's going

454
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 2: to be another a Stapha in Battle or Hamilton in

455
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 2: terms of world championships? Absolutely not, But someone in that

456
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 2: McLaren needed to win this world title and when the

457
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: chips were down, he stepped up and to my mind

458
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 2: he just and it's probably the closest gap I've got

459
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 2: in my top ten in terms of who to put wear.

460
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: He just gets second for me over Russell. But you

461
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 2: made a compelling argument, but I'm still not going to

462
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 2: agree with you.

463
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: No, that's that's fine. I also should have mentioned with

464
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 1: George Russell a lot of the season was with contract

465
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: speculation with Max with Stapfen taking his seat, and was

466
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: still very strong, really good point, but I do like

467
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: your arguments with Landa is a good Also, the biggest

468
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: sargment simply that he's won the World Championship. I think

469
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: he's finally a strong one for a top two finish,

470
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: or at least the top three in my case, because

471
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: I had him third on my list. Okay, I think

472
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: the only reason I put him behind Russell is just that,

473
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: like recent advice, is something's going to come up a

474
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 1: lot in this podcast. I suspect because inevitably it sort

475
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: of does when you're doing at the end of the season,

476
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: and he did peak at the right time. It was

477
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: the second half of the year. But when you've got

478
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: to win a championship and it's still relatively close, even

479
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: after that power unit problem in the Netherlands, to peak

480
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: at the end of the season, which also coincided with

481
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 1: Pastre falling off the horse a little bit, was important

482
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: was what made his championship. But I think he just

483
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: made it so much harder for himself by the way

484
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: he tackled that first half of the season, the crash

485
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: in Canada, the qualifying mistakes that really continued until we

486
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: got into the thick of the European season. That just

487
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: meant he was out of the picture at so many

488
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: Grand Prix, while Oscar Piastre built what came close to

489
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: being an insurmountable lead by the end of the season.

490
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: I think he is the only reason why I just

491
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: put him behind Russell. His mistakes were more significant than Russell.

492
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: You can argue, of course, and fairly enough, that the

493
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: pressure was higher for Lando, considering he knew he was

494
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: in the title fight from round one, whereas Russell knew

495
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 1: he wasn't and was really only out for himself and

496
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: for Mercedes Pride. But I think that's for me that

497
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: that's the difference maker between Russell and Norris, is that

498
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: I think Norris had on the table a much better

499
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: season than he had, And I know that sounds like

500
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: a backhander for the guy who won the title, shouldn't

501
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: attract from that in any way. I think there was

502
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: a better season on the table for Norris, and there

503
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: wasn't for Russell, and that's the difference maker.

504
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. Look, I'm not going to fight you

505
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: on this one. I think it's completely it's completely logical

506
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 2: what you've said. I think you would argue that Russell

507
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: possibly maximized the best of what it was that he

508
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: had to fight with relative to Norris, because Norris did

509
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 2: make very very heavy weather of it. But to defend

510
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 2: myself here, Orris did within the world titles.

511
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,479
Speaker 3: It's a good argument.

512
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: So what that naturally leads me towards then is I

513
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: will suspect that we have the same driver at number four?

514
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: Am I correct?

515
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: It seems like it if your number four was Oscar Piastri,

516
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: because he was certainly mine. So he's next on the list.

517
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: And I mean we've talked about Oscar Piastri so much

518
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: this season that it almost didn't have to get into

519
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: it again. But what a third season for him to

520
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: be leading the championship more than any other driver fifteen

521
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: rounds this season, to end it in title contention at

522
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: the final round. I mean he would have taken that absolutely.

523
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: When he was momentarily beached at the Australian Grand Prix

524
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: on his way to ninth and twenty three points off

525
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: the title lead. His highs were spectacular, his lows were fewer,

526
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: and I think that is important when comparing it to

527
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: certainly season one, but then season two as well. To

528
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: my mind, and this is something I've argued sometimes had

529
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: to argue. Really his bad races were just two were

530
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: Austin and Mexico City, and then circumstances played a role

531
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: subsequent to that to make the rounds in Brazil and

532
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: Las Vegas look worse than I think they were. Had

533
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: it not been for those bad rounds in Austin and

534
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: Mexico City, then we would have just been talking about

535
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: Chao Paolo and Las Vegas as well. He wasn't quite there,

536
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: nothing out of the ordinary, but the narrative form there.

537
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: The points loss was real, obviously, there's no getting around that,

538
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: and that's how he lost the title. But to take

539
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: Norris now after being what was it? It was sort of

540
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: twenty to four I think in qualifying last year, wasn't

541
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: it something to that effect? This year it was almost

542
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: even eleven to thirteen. He was beaten in the races.

543
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: It was nine to twelve he was beaten. The points

544
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: gap was nothing. It was thirteen points at the end.

545
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: Seven wins in his third season of Formula one, six

546
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: pole positions, including his first, just a really big season

547
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: for him. And I think the context matters is that

548
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: it was his third season. Everyone above him on the

549
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: list much more experienced. He almost beat them all fourth,

550
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: I think at a minimum for Osco Piastre.

551
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we talked about this last week

552
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: a little bit in that he this is a testament

553
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: tag go with the guy as it feels like he

554
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: skipped some steps here because this isn't the usual trajectory

555
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: for a guy in his third season, and context is

556
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: everything here in that, you know, we look at the

557
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: fact that he was third in the championship and finished

558
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: thirteen points off winning it, and we look back at

559
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 2: maybe the lower moments towards the back end of the year.

560
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: The Azerbaijah weekend is still going to be one of

561
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: those great what on earth happened? Because he'd been so

562
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: lights out for the entirety of the season before that.

563
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: But you know, once the if the individual races faded

564
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: from our memories a little bit, we'll look at this

565
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 2: and go, well, look at the progression of this guy.

566
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: He's fourth in the championship. The previous year he's finished thirty,

567
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: won lad of Grand Prix. Gee, he's really coming along.

568
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: But at the risk of kicking Australia while it's down here,

569
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 2: you know, the context is everything, because there was a

570
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: point of the season where and I think Zandvort was

571
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: it where we were going, well, this is a good

572
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: story because look at this, like he's really making a

573
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: good fist of this, and I certainly didn't have him

574
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: down to someone I thought that would win a World

575
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: championship this year. But then with what happened at Zandvoort

576
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: and the fact that for Stappan, it's like, well, he's

577
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: clearly too far out at the picture for Stappan to

578
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: actually be a problem here, and the car's no good

579
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: and there's turmoil there and everything else is going I'm

580
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: probably underestimated for Stappin in that regard. But you kept

581
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: looking around and thinking, hang on a minute, like this

582
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: is actually a real possibility now because Norris is so

583
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: far behind, there's not really anyone that's probably going to

584
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,239
Speaker 2: get in the mix and upset the two of them

585
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: from here, And that was when you thought, oh, okay,

586
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: it's his to lose from here, and that was maybe

587
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: I was a bit slower the uptake with this sort

588
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: of thing, but I kept fighting reasons to not take

589
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: it one hundred percent seriously until you looked at that

590
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: points gap went hang on like this is significant now,

591
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 2: so context is everything. It does come across as disappointing

592
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: because he was a race and a bit ahead of

593
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: everybody with nine to go and didn't really have much

594
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: of a realistic shot in the last round at Aberdabie.

595
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 2: He did it a lot to go right. But to

596
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 2: my mind, third the standings, great did he have as

597
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: we were saying before, did he maximize the equipment that

598
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: it was at his disposal relative to the others well

599
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: relative to his teammate. No, because his teammate won the

600
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: championship and relative to George Russell. I couldn't find a

601
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: way to put Piastre in front of Russell in these standings,

602
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: despite the fact that it was for round two on wards.

603
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: I think Russell was fourth in the championship and never

604
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: moved from there like he was under no threat from

605
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: behind it, never pressuring those in front of him. But

606
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: in the context of doing the most with what he had,

607
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: I think Russell probably gets ahead of Piastri and that's

608
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 2: why he's probably ended up in fourth on both of

609
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: our lists.

610
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does count, even if your teammate is

611
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: a rookie. It still counts being the number one driver

612
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: and a team in the ranking, I think. And Piastre

613
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: being the second best McLaren driver as title call as

614
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: it was, I think naturally puts him behind the number

615
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: ones of the big teams, which is where he is.

616
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: He's he's fourth, and he's got you know, we all

617
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: expect him to make some big improvements next year. Maybe

618
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: he'll be moving up in the rankings this time in six.

619
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: I think he will be.

620
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: I suspect that's probably the case. Let's move now, Matt

621
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: to what I think you called earlier as the Charlotte

622
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: Claire category. I don't know if that's boiling to cat

623
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: on this one, but what's.

624
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: What's use Your next thing?

625
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: Number five in the Charlo Clak category is Charlot Clair.

626
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: Incredibly enough, just writing the words Charlot Clair, I don't

627
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: know about you.

628
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: I get this.

629
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: I've not to feel sad at this point, and I

630
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: shouldn't feel too sorry for him, because life's pretty good

631
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: and he's got a lot of buddy and he's from

632
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: Moodico and he's got the glamorous girlfriend and drives a Ferrari.

633
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: It's not all terrible. Got a nice scream company as well. Well.

634
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: He's living the dream indeed.

635
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: But I just feel like I just feel this degree

636
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: of sadness simply because if you had to of all

637
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: the drivers that hadn't won a World championship before this year,

638
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: if you were to rank them in who's who's the

639
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 2: person you would be most com the world chair bit

640
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: out of that particular lot, he's top of the list

641
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: because he's so so good and just gets let down

642
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 2: year after year by some nonsense or another lot. Ferrari

643
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 2: was just abject, this is so bad this year and

644
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: for him to it was at seven podiums in that

645
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: car that Lewis Hamilton couldn't get on the podium with

646
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: once and took a pole position and had some tremendous results,

647
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: but it just didn't It never felt like any more

648
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 2: than that, and there was always this lament with him

649
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: as Charlott Clare's finished forty four seconds off the top

650
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: in sixth place or something, and so much better than

651
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: he probably should have been, but that's the best he

652
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: could do. So there's this degree of sadness because I

653
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: think he is good enough to have achieved much better

654
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: than that. And I guess you pointed to this earlier

655
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: in the podcast in that you do wonder if it's

656
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: getting to the point where he's going to have to

657
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: go somewhere else to realize that potential, because at some

658
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: point you can only just keep doing the same thing

659
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. And I think the

660
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: fact that we've got this rual reset is actually quite

661
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: useful because it's going to demonstrate one way or the

662
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: other whether, oh, yeah, it's worth me sticking this out

663
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: for the log haul. I've just got to get there

664
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: out of you because this is just not going to work,

665
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: because he's still young, and he's got time on his side,

666
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: and he's still very very good. But you know, it's

667
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: the classic definition of insanity at this point, isn't it.

668
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: You're just doing the same thing over and over again

669
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: and expecting a different result. But in terms of there

670
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: was not a chance he was getting inside my top

671
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: four based on the four that we've mentioned, and he

672
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: was whoever ends up being six through ten on our

673
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: list which is where is where We're going to disagree

674
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: quite a lot. There's absolutely no way you could play

675
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: any of those people in front of him. So, yes,

676
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: the Charlotte Clerk category is featuring number five Charla Clerk.

677
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I agree, So he's also in

678
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: my charlat Clair category of the fifth fair driver. But

679
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: even as I was writing it and thinking about it,

680
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: because he had a pretty comprehensively good season for the machinery,

681
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: he had comfortably accounted for Lewis Hamilton, as we've already

682
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about, which counts for a lot.

683
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: Because as much as hamilton adjustment to Ferrari was clearly

684
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: significant a variety of reasons. You know, he's still the

685
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: seven time champion. Even if he's over the hill, he's

686
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: it's still a long way down that hill. He should

687
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: still be competitive enough to give l a clear bit

688
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: of a fight, but comfortably beat him all season. I

689
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: couldn't help but wonder, and because this is the challenge

690
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: of making a list like this, what percentage of the

691
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: perceived underperformance that leaves him fifth? It is actually just

692
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: because the car was so rubbish, and not just the car,

693
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: but operationally the team was loose, and I think that's

694
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: almost what was more disappointing for me about Ferrari this

695
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: year was that it seemed like last year. It wasn't

696
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: just that the car improved so much late, but the

697
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: team seemed pretty tight. It seemed pretty cohesive with the

698
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: way it was operating. This year felt like a big

699
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: stat with the step backwards on that front as well,

700
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: how much better actually could look clear have been simply

701
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: if the team were operating better. So I think about

702
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: Hungary being the example of the one pole position. Now,

703
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: obviously the team it seemed like was always destined not

704
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: to win the race because the car needed to be

705
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: operated in a certain way with riote height and that

706
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But how much better had the team

707
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: managed raising the tire pressures late or managing that race better,

708
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: how much better result could he have achieved? And maybe

709
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: that would have made a difference in our final ranking.

710
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: So almost felt a little bit bad leaving him fifth

711
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: because I can't help but think that the gap between

712
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: him and those front four was actually more about the

713
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: car and the team than it was about him. But

714
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: he was very solid, Like I've said, his team very

715
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: comfortably was easily the better Ferrari driver. If any Ferrari

716
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: driver was going to pinch a win this year, it

717
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: was going.

718
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: To be him.

719
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: He pinched seven podiums. I think it's fair to say

720
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: maybe the exception being Monaco, where he was always going

721
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: to get one. I look forward to the day where

722
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: we can rank him as the top performer, because I

723
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: think the only way that happens is if Ferrari give

724
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: him a title winning car.

725
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct. Him being fifth is much more of an

726
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: indictment on who he drives for and how they run,

727
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: rather than him himself. Or if you were going to

728
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: do the older, the old podcast trope Michael blame Pie,

729
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: if you're going to divide up a pie in segments,

730
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: there would be a very small sliver of aforementioned pie

731
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: that he is labeled Charlie Clare and that every very

732
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: large bit of it labeled other stuff. And that's kind

733
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: of all you need to know, really, isn't it. I'm

734
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: a big fan of blame Pie. I can explain a

735
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: lot of things blame pie.

736
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: That's gonna be on the table in Marin Allies suspect

737
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: this Christmas, so that's going to be Look. I look

738
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: forward to the day where Charlotequair might end up a

739
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: little bit high on this ranking and in the championship too.

740
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: Let's get to the bottom five, our top ten, because

741
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: this was interesting. You know, as we go we talked

742
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: about this before the podcast. As we go through the

743
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: challenge of writing these rankings, it does inevidently get to

744
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: a point where it's very difficult, where there are a

745
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: lot of different ways to assemble the drivers. I think

746
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: it's my pick, isn't it. So I'm going to start

747
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: us off.

748
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: It's your peak, yes, And you're pulling a face here

749
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: that is pretty bad. Just pulling a face here that's

750
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: not dissimilar to the one that I have when I

751
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: was writing this, because I described it before we got

752
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: on as I described it as watching a kid with

753
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: a plateful of vegetables which we're looking at which one

754
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: they dislike the least, to go, oh god, I'll eat

755
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: that one first, because that's kind of how I felt

756
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: from six through ten years.

757
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let me preface this actually, because this is

758
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: the way I thought about it. With the exception of

759
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: the driver I put tenth because I think he deserved

760
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: ten for different reasons. As much as you try to

761
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: counter the recency bias. I do think trajectory is very

762
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: important because it's solid trajectory, not simply you've turned up

763
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: and had four good races at the end of the

764
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: year whatever. I think that still counts with something, and

765
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: especially in the case of number six, for a driver

766
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: who's changed teams, because I've put Carloss signs.

767
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: That oh so did I incredible.

768
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: Disagreements, no disagreements.

769
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: I thought I was going out on a massive live

770
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: here and you were going to shout at me for this.

771
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: So I'm so pleased, go on, please sell me.

772
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: Yes, because I think the trajectory, as I was saying,

773
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: counts for a lot for drivers who've changed teams. Because

774
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: despite Carlos I think actually trying to argue the opposite

775
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: a little bit, I feel like this has become a

776
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: very difficult era for drivers to change teams. The ground

777
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: effect to you, the cars are all so particular. Despite

778
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: his protestations that actually was up to the pace pretty

779
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: much of me did this start of the year. I

780
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear he wasn't, but did get to

781
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: that point eventually, and then consistently his second half of

782
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: the year was consistently very good. As we already alluded

783
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: to earlier in the podcast, was easily accounting for Alex

784
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: Album by the end of the year, which is something

785
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: I did not expect and something that to my mind

786
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: counts for a lot, because I really rate Alex Albont.

787
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: I think he's really good and has been very good

788
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: at Williams in particular. So for Carlos Science to at

789
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: the end of the year look back on the season

790
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: and say I finished twice, twice meritoriously on the podium,

791
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: remarkable from qualified second and asak, that was a pretty

792
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: wacky qualifying session, But for him to do so, I

793
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: think just reinforced how solid an operator he is.

794
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: I see.

795
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: I suppose it got him up a smooth operator. It's

796
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: very close to being even in the In the race

797
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: head to head it was only seven ten surpassed Alex

798
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: albon in the qualifying head to head fourteen to ten,

799
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: was the fastest driver on average in qualifying, ended up

800
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: only nine points behind Album as well, which is something

801
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: I just did not see coming halfway through the year.

802
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: I think it was through his great credit and that

803
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: trajectory again is why he's my sixth best performer over

804
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: the year, which is something I didn't think even before

805
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: the year started, when he was going to of him,

806
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: I didn't think would be happening.

807
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: I was certain we're going to disagree here. By the way,

808
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: that famous charda song solid Operator not scowled offer today

809
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: doesn't quite come out the same doesn't. But I'll never

810
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 2: be able to hear that song the same way again now.

811
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: But while we were throwing some stats around, so I

812
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: was just having a look. So he scored thirteen points

813
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: in the first twelve rounds Science, and he scored forty

814
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: nine points in the final twelve rounds. And I mean

815
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: realistically the first two real Williams podiums for eight years.

816
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: I'm not counting the twenty twenty one Belgium Grand Prix,

817
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 2: the one lap race that we stayed up till four

818
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning for. But to my mind, he

819
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: ends up here because on days when there's a big

820
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: result in the offing, like Azerbaijan and like Qatar, this

821
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: is why you hire Karla Science, because he's going to

822
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: be someone who's going to convert on those results. Based

823
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: on quite frankly evidence pedigree from the past, we know

824
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: he does this in a way that we suspect Alex

825
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: Alban could, but we've never really seen it. And yes,

826
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: album scored more points and he finished ahead of him

827
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: in the championship and so on and so forth. Williams

828
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: comfortable fifth of the championship, which is again something that

829
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 2: we haven't said for a very very long time. But yes,

830
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: an element of recency bias here, but I think it's

831
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: completely justifiable the way you've said it there. I'm a

832
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: little bit surprised we have agreed. Perhaps the best thing

833
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: other than those two podiums for Carlos Science in twenty

834
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: twenty five, if I'm being a little bit harsh here,

835
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: was he didn't have to drive a Ferrari. That was

836
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: probably very good news too.

837
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: Yes, quite possibly, who knows could have been not with

838
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: more points as a result, not really high up the list,

839
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: I'm willing to say, by being a Williams diverer.

840
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: But I think that's it. I think that's a great.

841
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: Call on Alex Alban as well, that we've seen a

842
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: lot of great execution from him, but not in this

843
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: way at all. That and I think that is a

844
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: question mark going to twenty twenty six. And I also wonder,

845
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: and this is a question that'll be answered over subsequent years.

846
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: We also just have no idea where William is going

847
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: to be next year, into competitive order and about the

848
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: cars and all sorts of things. But if you look

849
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: at this season, was clearly the better driver a when

850
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: Science was adjusting, it's one element of it. But when

851
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: the car wasn't as good, and I even go back

852
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: to last year, he had a lot of great performances

853
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: in a year the Williams car just wasn't very good.

854
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: When the Williams car.

855
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: Sort of sorted itself out in the middle of the year,

856
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: they didn't bring very many upgrades, but the ones they

857
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: did were really effective. Science was suddenly the more consistently

858
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: impressive performance. I wonder if William's trajectory, which the team

859
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: obviously hopes it is, is up to delivering cars that

860
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: are just better, whether that actually widens this gap. Maybe

861
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: Alex Album's one of those drivers is just really good

862
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: at dragging performances out of really ordinary cars, whereas Carlos

863
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: Sciences We've seen when everything clicks, he's extremely good. Maybe

864
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: that ends up becoming a difference. It's an interesting question

865
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: for twenty six.

866
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, maybe Album's your classic higher floor, lower

867
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 2: ceiling if you understand what I mean, when the car

868
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: is genuinely capable of achieving something. There's been lots of

869
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 2: album races where he'll do some wacky one stop and

870
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: go from fifteenth and finish eighth and oh wow, that

871
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 2: was amazing on a day when you know you wouldn't

872
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: expect that to happen. That's fine, but I have much

873
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: more trust in science being able to drag podiums out

874
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: of a car like that. It's better. And yeah, that's

875
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: why we've somehow both ended up with him sixth on

876
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: the list here. But I believe I'm up for number seven,

877
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: are we correct?

878
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: Yes, the promise of conflict, though I'm worried maybe under

879
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: delivered judging by number six.

880
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: All right, number seven on my list, and this is

881
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: again like, oh, I guess someone has to be seventh.

882
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 2: But I was super impressed with this guy, probably because

883
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: my expectations on him were a little bit lower coming

884
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: into the season. It's Isaac Cadger has finished seventh for me.

885
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: Now he's twelfth in the World Championship. And lest we

886
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 2: forget his very first race in Australia, it wasn't actually

887
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: a race because he managed to bin it on the

888
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: warm up lap. So from inauspicious beginnings he has managed

889
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: to climb his way into the top seven here. And

890
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: there's something, you know, I think of all the rookies

891
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 2: and if you're going to include Liam Lawson and other

892
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: people who had done a couple of races in that

893
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: category this year, and through no real fault of his own,

894
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 2: he was the guy that I probably had the lowest

895
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: expectations for because it kind of felt a bit like,

896
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: oh all right. Then when Racing Bulls put him in

897
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty five, he's F two runner up. Season

898
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: was pretty decent, but it's like, well, this is a

899
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: guy who's clearly fast, but there's some flaws there and

900
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 2: who knows whether he's going to be able to handle

901
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 2: it with formula wide And then of all the people

902
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: that were going to chuck it in the fence in

903
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: the warm up lap in the in Australia, he would

904
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 2: have been pretty close to the top of my list.

905
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: But over the course of the season outstanding qualifying pace

906
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: at I think it was sixteen times or something crazy

907
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: that he made it into Q three, which in a

908
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: Racing Bulls car it was by no means the worst

909
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: car on the grid, but the ferocious one lap speed

910
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: that he has. I love the fact that he's really

911
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: hard on himself even though it's a floor at the

912
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: same time, because there is a care factor there at

913
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 2: a willingness to get better. Is how that's going to

914
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: manifest itself when you've got back to stap Ad in

915
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: the sister car, I'm not I'm a little concerned about

916
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: that quite frankly, but as a story for next year,

917
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: I do like the way he went about it. He

918
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 2: had the podium in Zanvort, which yes, was a little

919
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: bit ftuitous because Norris retired from second place later in

920
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: that race, but he was in position to capitalize on that,

921
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: went from fourth to third, scored the hadjodium. As you remember,

922
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: the Racing Bulls press release came up with one of

923
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: the absolute low lights of the season. But I just

924
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 2: thought he he exceeded the expectations I had for him

925
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: by a greater amount than many other drivers that I

926
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: could have chosen from. And the promotion into Red Bull Racing,

927
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: relative to some of the other promotions they've had over

928
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, actually feels like a bit

929
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: of an inspired call. I don't mind it at all.

930
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 2: I really hope he doesn't get incinerated by the staff

931
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: and like so many of these other guys have. But

932
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: to my mind, he's a pretty nailed on seventh on

933
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: this list, and that's not something I would have thought.

934
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: I would have said back in March. But I am

935
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: wondering where you're going here with number seven.

936
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look disappointingly somewhat, he was also my number seven.

937
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: And I think you've you've explained it.

938
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: Really well, Noah.

939
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: The stat that counts is he was the eighth best

940
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: qualifier in the sixth best. I know that sounds like

941
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: the numbers the wrong way around, but you realistically should

942
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: have been around twelfth on the grid, but.

943
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: Was actually on average.

944
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

945
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to go to your point, this feels like

946
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: a good Red Bull promotion. This is the first guy

947
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: I think he's been promoted to Red Bull Racing who's

948
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: had that kind of consistent speed in a long time.

949
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 3: You have to go back.

950
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: I haven't actually I haven't looked this up, but I

951
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: don't remember Alex Albon being that consistently good qualifier. He

952
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: was looked very solid in that half the season. The

953
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: added I think it was Toross at the time, was

954
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: it whatever it seems called at the time, Yes, but

955
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: didn't look like he had that kind of blistering speed.

956
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: I don't think Pierre Ghastly did either from memory, but

957
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: he clearly had that potential in him. But Haja has

958
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: been so consistently quick that as long as he can

959
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: retain some of that speed in qualifying, regardless of what

960
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: happens in the races next year, I think he'll be

961
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: set up well as long as he's not. And I

962
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: don't think he will be as a result of this

963
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: because Sonoda certainly didn't look like that kind of qualify.

964
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: He was really good in races. He was fast, but

965
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: it took years for him to develop that consistent speed.

966
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: That hasn't been the case for how Jay. He's quick

967
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: out of the box, which makes you think how much

968
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: better he can still get. Considering this was his rookie year,

969
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: it makes me optimistic that he can do it next

970
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: year at Red Bull Racing. Combined with the fact that

971
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: the new rules should hopefully mean that car is a

972
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: little bit more drivable for anyone whose name is not Dutch.

973
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: So I was really impressed with him, And yeah, I

974
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: think You're right that expectations are much lower, mostly from

975
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: the Red Bull side more than anything else. I mean,

976
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: you did come very close to him theF two title

977
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, very good.

978
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: But that comment you made, especially from the Red Bull side,

979
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: this goes back to one of my favorite words I

980
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: keep saying it to this podcast, dysfunction. The only reason

981
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: that Hajar got a role this year within the two

982
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: Red Bull back teams was because they had signed Sergio

983
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: Perez to a two year contract extension in twenty twenty

984
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: four and then decided by the end of the season

985
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: that he was surplus to requirements, so they had to

986
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: promote somebody up from racing balls into Red bull and

987
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: after two races they decided they promoted the wrong person

988
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: and then put the other one in there, who they

989
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 2: decided was actually no good a few months before. And

990
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: the only reason Hajar was on the grid in the

991
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: first place was like, well, we've got to put someone

992
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: in this thing, and he's the next most qualified guy

993
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: in the pipeline. And as it turns out, we were

994
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: having this conversation in February, you had Lawson in a

995
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: Red Bull, Sonoda in a Racing bulls and Hagi with

996
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 2: question marks as his teammate Sonoda's out Lawson's actually been

997
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: able to extend his career by going back to where

998
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: he was and all the best of luck to was

999
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: at CAJI next year. But it just shows you the

1000
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 2: level of dysfunction in that program.

1001
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: But I hope he.

1002
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: Makes a fist of it because there's an energy with

1003
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: him in qualifying particularly and it'll be nice if it

1004
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: translates to some nice second Row starts at the start

1005
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: of next season. Is energy about the way he goes

1006
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: about it that I think could be quite fun.

1007
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: Yes, I think the attitude, which I know you've already

1008
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: touched on, but the attitude feels right as well. I

1009
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: think the self criticism doesn't feel like it's just being

1010
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: put on because that's what Red Bull kind of wants

1011
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: of you, and that actually, deep down you think you're

1012
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: very good. I mean, I'm sure he believes he's very good,

1013
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: but I think he's still got that right approach that

1014
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: it's not I don't think he's going to get to

1015
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: Red Bull and think he's made it and then realize

1016
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: he's six tens a second slower than the stuff. It

1017
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going on, so I think that's that's

1018
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: also quite positive. The face pulling gets harder for me, actually,

1019
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: because I've just looked at the list that I wrote

1020
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: down a few days ago, and I'm already like, oh.

1021
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: That's a surprise.

1022
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 2: But what vegetable have you got to on your play,

1023
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: I guess is a question.

1024
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: Yes, But I come back to my overriding principle for

1025
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: this section of the order, which is trajectory counts for

1026
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: a lot. It counts especially for rookies, as we've talked

1027
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: about with Isaac Hadja, and I think I can reconvince

1028
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: myself that eighth on my list is Oliver Bearman, which

1029
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: I would never have picked in the first half of

1030
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 1: the year because, to be honest, and this is why

1031
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: recencyvinds his difference trajectory. In the first half of the year,

1032
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: I was underwhelmed with him. I'm pretty sure he would

1033
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: have been outside of my top ten because some of

1034
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: the mistakes you were making I couldn't even classify as

1035
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: rookie mistakes. Red flag errors are fundamental to racing. Will

1036
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: red flags in every category of racing, and he lost

1037
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: big results. Well maybe not in Monico because or So

1038
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: were the but clearly lost a big result at his

1039
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: home Grand Prience, Silicten's a result of a pit lane

1040
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: red flag in practice. Dreadful second half of the year,

1041
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: though I don't know who gave him a good talking to,

1042
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: Someone clearly did. The car also improved a little bit,

1043
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: but not a lot. It's got to be Sai was excellent.

1044
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean Mexico. Fourth place in Mexico's the obvious highlight

1045
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: came so close to a podium.

1046
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 3: Actually, glad he didn't get one.

1047
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: Well, not that he didn't get one, but glad they

1048
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: didn't gamble for one, because I think they wouldn't have

1049
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: pulled it off. But they played for fourth place and

1050
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: they got it ahead of Oscar Piastri. It's got to

1051
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: be said. This great run of five races in a row,

1052
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: scoring points, scoring quite good points. Average finishing position was

1053
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: ten point seven, which makes him eleventh in the order,

1054
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: which I didn't expecting get the statistic. So on average

1055
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: was the eleventh best finisher in the sport, and I

1056
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: think that also counts as much as the trajectory does well.

1057
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: On people have different estimations of him. He is the

1058
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: more experienced driver. He looked like he had to handle

1059
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 1: on things. In the first half a year, Beerman finished

1060
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: on every key metric ahead and in some cases well

1061
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: ahead of estevao On. I think that also counts for

1062
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: a lot, which is how he's ended up eighth on

1063
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: my list and my fourth pick or whatever.

1064
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: It is not eighth on my list. He is in

1065
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: my list, but I will get to him. But while

1066
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: we're on Beam and Women's will talkbout him. Because I

1067
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 2: did have a couple of points here. My first thought was,

1068
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: was what he did this year the actual best thing

1069
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: that happened to Ferrari the entire year, I think simply

1070
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: simply because it's demonstrating that Ferrari's sort of succession plan

1071
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: for the future is actually on course. Even if it's present,

1072
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: you kind of want to hide your eyes a little

1073
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: bit because it's so grim. At least there's there's less

1074
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: doubt now that when the time comes for Oliver Baerman

1075
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 2: to be in a Ferrari, and that time might come

1076
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: pretty soon, by the way, I don't think that he's

1077
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: going to be underwhelmed by the opportunity, and there's at

1078
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: least there's not going to be that doubt. I wonder

1079
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: if this guy can do it. I think he's going

1080
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: to be okay when he eventually gets there. You mentioned

1081
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: that Mexico race. Here's something that may have escaped you,

1082
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: but it's going to be obvious when I say it.

1083
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: That fourth place he had in Mexico was equal to

1084
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton's best results for Ferrari or season.

1085
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 4: No no, And that's one of those things you know

1086
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 4: it to be true. But then when you read it

1087
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: like that, oh boy, when you think of the level

1088
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 4: of expectation for those two drivers and the fact that

1089
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 4: their best result of the season was identical, that's not

1090
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: something that you would have thought you would have been

1091
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 4: saying back in February. So good news for everyone from Chelsford.

1092
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 2: They'll all be stoked. But the thing you mentioned about

1093
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: Ocon's really interesting because whatever you think about Esteban Ochon,

1094
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: he is a known benchmark. He's been around for a

1095
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: long while now. He generally gets the best out of

1096
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: most situations that he's in. He's hard as nails, he's uncompromising.

1097
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: It is to fall out with these teammates and all

1098
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. But Ocon's a really good known

1099
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: benchmark for a young driver who we don't really know

1100
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: how they're going to step up. And the fact that

1101
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: most of the metrics went in Bearman's favor because of

1102
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: that late finishing kick that you mentioned, I think is

1103
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: really commendable. And you know, I only say this slightly facetiously.

1104
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: The best thing that might have happened to Ferrari this

1105
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: year is like, well, at least this guy's going to

1106
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: be ready when we call upon him, And yeah, I

1107
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: guess the question is how soon do we call upon him? However,

1108
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: he was not my number eight on my list, so

1109
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to go into who was my number eight

1110
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: on the list, And when you started saying rookies, I

1111
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 2: sat up in my chair thinking, hey, God, a minute,

1112
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 2: don't till we were actually going to agree again. I'm

1113
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: going Kimmy Antonelli here very good, simply because it was

1114
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: a bizarre season when you look at it. So first

1115
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: three rounds he scored thirty points to Russell's forty five,

1116
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: and then he had that nine round run where you

1117
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: take the Canadian GP podium Society scored one point for

1118
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: the rest of those rounds in there and all circuits

1119
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 2: that he knew, So it's like, what on Earth's going

1120
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: on here? Towards the end of the season. I mean, yes,

1121
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: he inherited a Las Vegas podium afterm the McLaren's got disqualified,

1122
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: But the South Paolo weekend for mine, where that was

1123
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: just genuine. The entire weekend sprint Grand Prix circin he'd

1124
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: never been on before, had the best of his teammate

1125
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: who had won their previously. That was one of those

1126
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: weekends where you're like, yeah, okay, this is why you've

1127
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: got this guy in. And the context of this, of course,

1128
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: is that he's spent most of this season as an

1129
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 2: eighteen year old, and you're taking over from a living

1130
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: legend at a team that has done so much over

1131
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 2: the years. I think it would be to my mind,

1132
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 2: it was a little bit harsh to put him lower

1133
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: than that. Despite the points gap between Antonelli and Russell,

1134
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: we know how good Russell is. I mean, you've got

1135
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: him in your top two. I had him in my

1136
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 2: top three. But I think the pace that Antonelli's shown

1137
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 2: on occasion, and the on occasions the key part warrants

1138
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: him being placed here because well, two things. A. I

1139
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: think this is the lowest he's going to be on

1140
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: this ranking for quite a long time. I think the

1141
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: arrow is definitely going up, And yeah, the way he

1142
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 2: sees it unfolded was a little bit jankie in that

1143
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 2: it was really good and then really bad and really

1144
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: really good at various points towards the end. It's a

1145
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 2: pretty good building block for someone that's so young and

1146
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: so inexperience, and I think it does justify the faith

1147
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: that Mercedes has put in him, and he's only going

1148
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 2: to get better. But I thought this was a pretty

1149
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: decent start.

1150
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so he was very close. He was

1151
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: a ninth for me on my list, so he was

1152
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: very close with Beerman. I think the only reason Berman

1153
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: ended up ahead is just because Beerman seemed to come

1154
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: to terms with his Formula one career little bit better.

1155
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: He's a little bit older, though, which I think is

1156
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: probably fair enough, so maybe in context it's even closer.

1157
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: I think the only thing for me as well that

1158
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,959
Speaker 1: maybe puts him just behind is I mean, one hundred

1159
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: percent agree with what you said about his Brazill weekend,

1160
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: because I thought that was the weekend where it just

1161
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: felt like this is going to work. Putting the teenager

1162
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: in the car, you are going to take some pain,

1163
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: but this is the weekend that proved it's going to

1164
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: come together where the next year of the after whatever.

1165
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to say, I think more than

1166
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: just one weekend on which he had Russell's measure. And

1167
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: I know that's a big ask because, like you say,

1168
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: Russell was at a minimum top three driver for us

1169
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: this year, But I just thought, I think to get

1170
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: him high up to this, I would have wanted to

1171
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: see one more weekend. I don't think that means it's

1172
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: not he's not going to be a great driver or

1173
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: he's not going to get eventually, just for the purposes

1174
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: of differentiating between eighth and ninth, I would have wanted

1175
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: to see one other weekend where you were like, oh, actually,

1176
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: you know he's got it. He's got it all down pat.

1177
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: But a really great season in the end for him,

1178
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: and I'm glad we got there because those European rounds

1179
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: did look pretty ordinary. That he needed to kick up

1180
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: the pants, A good kick in the pants, actually, I

1181
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: think was the exact phrasing, and it seemed to have

1182
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: worked because that second half.

1183
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: Of the year was very good for him.

1184
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: So I think we're at the end of I've got

1185
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: number ten right, I'm bringing us home with number ten.

1186
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't gone to my number nine yet because

1187
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: I had Baman at ten.

1188
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. I'll let you go. I should have asked.

1189
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: But perhaps we've got we're sharing our complete ten, which.

1190
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: Interesting, I reckon we do?

1191
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: Go on, what have you got?

1192
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: I just feel like this is the exception to the

1193
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: trajectory rule for my top ten because he's just so

1194
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: good all the time, isn't it. It's Fernando Alonso. I

1195
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: don't think we could have a top ten without Fernando

1196
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: Alonso in it continues. I think he deserves the top

1197
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: ten just for sticking around at Astonmon. To be honest

1198
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: with you, this is a team that's only got worse

1199
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: since he got from the first from the blocks with

1200
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: all those podiums a couple of years ago. Worse fifth

1201
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: place finishes in the last couple of years and was

1202
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: down a couple of places on that did kind of

1203
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: come home a little bit more strongly, but certainly nothing

1204
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: to write home about and held up the team despite

1205
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: two bish am I really going to say the sentence?

1206
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: To be fair to Lance Stroll, he scored reasonable points early.

1207
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: There was no point in that run of strolls in

1208
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: which he looked like the better driver. It was more

1209
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: about circumstance and Van Orlando suffering of a bad luck.

1210
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: I mean the statistics just if you want to hear them.

1211
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: Alonso beat Stroll twenty three to zero in qualifying. There

1212
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: was that one session which Stroll did not qualify, so

1213
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: you could call it twenty four zero, and then the

1214
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: head to heads was fourteen three, still in Alonso's favor,

1215
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: despite Stroll getting was it a nine race head start

1216
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: for scoring opportunities before Alonso scored I think was the

1217
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: ninth or tenth round yep, and then still ended up

1218
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: as the highest scoring driver. I mean, he just continues

1219
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: to do the business. I really hope for his sake

1220
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: Baus Martin's competitive next year because I'd love to see

1221
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: him get that win, even though I I'm.

1222
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: Not convinced he's going to get it.

1223
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: But we saw only a couple of years ago with

1224
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: that podium run that he's up for it, and this

1225
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: year I think he still was.

1226
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: I've just ever since you said to be fair to

1227
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 2: Lance Stroll, I kind of blacked out for the last

1228
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 2: ninety seconds, so you could you could have said anything.

1229
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 2: I don't think I heard any of it, but no,

1230
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: I that I share a lot of this sentiment. If

1231
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: we were doing a top ten driver rankings ten to

1232
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: twelve years before podcasts existed in two thousand and one,

1233
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: he's probably on that list as well. I'm not even

1234
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: going to ask you. I'm not even going to ask

1235
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: you what you were doing in two thousand and one,

1236
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 2: but you probably weren't watching Fernando. A lot so be awesome,

1237
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: and it's funny there with a lot so because I

1238
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: get this feeling now that if there's a good result

1239
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 2: to have, or there's a way to sort of engineer,

1240
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 2: or a result out of just some cunning strategy or

1241
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: you know, just being a really slow moving cork in

1242
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: the bottle in somewhere like Katara, and they're just maximizing

1243
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 2: his track position and then running away with it when

1244
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 2: he can later in the race. I love that sort

1245
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: of stuff with him. I do get the sense that,

1246
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 2: you know, if he's running around in thirteen, he's bit

1247
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: checked out and not particularly up for it and probably

1248
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: wondering if the car is going to break or something

1249
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: like that. But to my mind, this is why Aston

1250
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: is just this really mysterious team. You or we were

1251
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: talking last week about which team most intrigued you for

1252
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: next year. This is why I said aston Fernando Alonso's

1253
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: twenty years removed from his first World Chat hit, yet

1254
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: he's still clearly the best driver in his team. And

1255
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 2: I'd love to know how much he really has left

1256
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 2: in the tank if he was actually being pushed properly

1257
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: internally by his teammate, which we know that's not going

1258
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 2: to happen. While the person that scigns his checks is

1259
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: the person that signs his checks, And so that's why

1260
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: I find this team so mysterious because we just don't know.

1261
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, you mentioned that qualifying stat you know, twenty

1262
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: three zero twenty four zero. If you're like the only

1263
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: other driver to beat his teammate in every single qualifying

1264
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: session for a Grand Prix this year was Max to Stappan,

1265
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, and part of that is because he's Fernando

1266
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: a lotso and the fire still burns. And part of

1267
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: that is because well, you know, you can complete that

1268
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: sentence however you like, Yes.

1269
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: You can notable as well that qualifying isn't sort of

1270
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: traditionally an Alonso absolute strong, it's not a cunning in

1271
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: the race. So for him to do that. I think

1272
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: again you can say about whatsop of the Ledger is

1273
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: more influential in that statistic. In the end, a fir

1274
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: bit of a screaman in the top ten, even if

1275
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: the exact order was different, which was nice. But I mean,

1276
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: I think that means we're probably right. I think I

1277
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: think that means, oh, we're both wrong.

1278
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 3: We look.

1279
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: Let's run through very quickly and briefly our bottom ten,

1280
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: just for the sake of what. In fact, there are

1281
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 1: eleven drivers who competed form were under year. So yes,

1282
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: let me give you my next five, and you can

1283
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 1: tell me what you think and were yours were. Eleventh

1284
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: was Pierre Gaslin, despite him driving for company with the

1285
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: worst team. I think he's probably deserved a high position

1286
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: just for sticking around. I don't know why I signed

1287
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: a long term contract with him, but it is. Gabrielle

1288
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: bought a letter I think was close to being much

1289
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 1: higher up this list because he had pretty solid middle

1290
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: of the season, just faded a little bit late in

1291
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: the way the other rookies didn't, so I think lost

1292
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: him some places for me. Liam Lawson was thirteenth. We

1293
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: spoke about him earlier. Saved his career. Niko Holkenberg was fourteenth.

1294
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: I got that podium, but Bortaletto shaded him for most

1295
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: of the year. Was a hidden a lot of metrics,

1296
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: which I think. I mean, Holkeenberg's there for bringing the experience,

1297
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: but I think that was a little bit surprising. And

1298
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: Alex album was down in fifteen. For me, What did

1299
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: you think of the next five?

1300
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had ghastly higher than I did. Bortletto, I

1301
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: can absolutely see that Bortleho't qualifying speed is the thing

1302
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 2: that stood out for me, and that's a really, really

1303
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: good sign for the future. We discussed laws of an

1304
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: oc on a little bit earlier. I had albon on

1305
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: eleventh and he was my toughest cuss simply because he

1306
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 2: did provide a you know, he provided the majority of

1307
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: Williamsports in a very good season for Williams. But the

1308
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: reason I couldn't squeez him into the top ten was

1309
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: just because of how things completely faded. But it's funny,

1310
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: like we had the same what is that half a

1311
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: dozen names there in just differing orders and then you

1312
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: go from there. It's kind of well, I guess Lewis

1313
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 2: Hamilton needs to go somewhere before the bottom four and

1314
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 2: the bottom four. I'll be super curious to know where

1315
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: you've gone here, because my bottom four eighteen ninety, eighteen, nineteen,

1316
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 2: twenty and twenty one in this particular order. Jack doan

1317
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: remember him? He finished eighteenth for me, Lance Stroll nineteen.

1318
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 2: Franco Colopinto, who scored as many points in what eighteen

1319
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: rounds as Jack do and did in six congratulations for that.

1320
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: In twentieth and Yuki Sonoda last very similar.

1321
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: I also had Jack doing eighteenth. I had him ahead

1322
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: of Franco Colopindo because their stats were pretty much the same,

1323
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: but he had much less chance to do them, which

1324
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: makes you think that he could have been better at

1325
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: he been given the time. I had Lance Stroll in twentieth.

1326
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: But Sonda, it's hard to go part. I mean, Maxwstaffan

1327
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: was four bus two points the world champion, and Yuki

1328
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: Sonoda was barely scoring points weekend to weekend. I had

1329
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: did I have in the middle I had on sixteenth

1330
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: than Hamilton's seventeenth.

1331
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, very well, it's very very great. Even even to

1332
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 2: be honest, I think Hamilton was so desponded by most

1333
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: things at the end of the year that if he

1334
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 2: knew he finished seventeenth in your rankings, he'd probably just

1335
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: go that'll be the end of it and turn the

1336
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: calendar of twenty twenty six as fast as possible.

1337
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: Yes, I think so, after a long break with his

1338
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: phone in the bin, Yes, he said he probably why.

1339
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 2: Yes.

1340
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, though, a couple of supplementary prizes

1341
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: I guess.

1342
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: To give outs.

1343
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: Now that we know where everyone's fallen on the list,

1344
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: we've got to go to not Move of the Week,

1345
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: but Move of the Year. I suppose by Shannon, it's

1346
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: considering this is the last podcast of the year, the

1347
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: biggest improver of the grid based on our rankings, I

1348
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: suppose the rankings being an indicator, who was your biggest

1349
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: improver your move of the year? Move of the Year

1350
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: for me is Oscar Piastri very good because because he's

1351
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: gone from being someone who we thought might be able

1352
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: to contend for a world championship in the future to

1353
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: being someone that could contend for a world championship right

1354
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: now in the present, and that definitely lifts expectations of

1355
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: what he might be able to do in the future.

1356
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: And in terms of the person that's improved most on

1357
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: what we thought compared to what they actually can be.

1358
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: I think it has to be in, isn't it. Yeah,

1359
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a good call. I was a little

1360
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: bit torn on mine. I was going to say George Russell,

1361
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: but I feel like I've already talked so much about

1362
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: how much I think he's improved, and I'm going to

1363
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: go actually just with the world champion Lando Norris, because

1364
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: I thought, and I think we've probably said in previous podcasts,

1365
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: that if the chips were really down, he wouldn't be

1366
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: the driver to rebound. I wouldn't have backed him being

1367
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: the guy to go thirty four points down with an

1368
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: engine problem and then fire back like this had been

1369
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: the title.

1370
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 3: And he proved me wrong.

1371
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: And I think he said he proved himself wrong, So

1372
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: I feel less bad about being proved wrong first. But

1373
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: I think that really changed my perception of where LANDA.

1374
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: Norris is heading. I don't know necessarily that's going to

1375
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: make him an all time great, but look, he's got

1376
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: his whole career to prove that or otherwise. But I

1377
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: was really pressed with the way ended the season. I

1378
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: didn't think it was going to be him For a

1379
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: long time. I thought it was gonna be backs for

1380
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: staff at the end of the season, and he got

1381
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: it done, so good for him. And we can't wrap

1382
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: up without the Crystal Ball by complete home filtration. Now

1383
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: we've talked a little bit about our expectations of the

1384
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: off season, generally in last week's podcast. You go back

1385
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: and listen to them. But we will of course be

1386
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: doing rankings again next year. I'm not going to ask

1387
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: you to predict your entire top twenty or twenty two

1388
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: as it will be or perhaps more with the arrival

1389
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: of Cadillac next season. We're to look into your complete

1390
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: homefiltration of Crystal Ball and look at where you think

1391
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: these rankings may move by the end of next year.

1392
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: Who might be moving positively or negatively? Yes, what are

1393
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 1: you going to predict?

1394
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 2: I haven't thought where Harvid Lynn Blad's go the slot

1395
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 2: into next year's Crystal Ball this yet, So that's I'm

1396
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: glad you've not asked me to go one through twenty

1397
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: two and what it was going to be next year.

1398
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: But I'm going to have two cracks at the crystal

1399
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: Ball here. I'm going to go someone going up and

1400
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: someone going down. Someone going up is the person that

1401
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 2: I'm predicting to win next year's well titled George Russell.

1402
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 3: Oh God, great, wasn't expecting a title predictionn't it? That's

1403
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: very good, isn't it?

1404
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: Oh it's decendber Let it fly on. He's the person

1405
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: I think is going to rise higher in this rankings

1406
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: from a very very high base, and then my crystal

1407
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: ball perhaps getting a little bit murky and perhaps needing

1408
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: to be refreshed with a service. Is all I've written

1409
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 2: here is Lewis Hamilton. Could it be down and then out?

1410
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: Because I think if things get worse for Lewis Hamilton

1411
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, you do wonder how long he's

1412
01:00:59,120 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: going to stick around.

1413
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's a good call. But he can't

1414
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: get too much lower, can he. Really?

1415
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: He's the very lower reaches of our list here, which

1416
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: is a little bit grim. I also like the world

1417
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: Champion angle. I was going with that for most improved,

1418
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: but I was going to go, of course, for the

1419
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: more patriotic angle, which is that Oscar Piasti will be

1420
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: ranked number one next year, although as we learn this year,

1421
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: not always going to the World Champion, so I guess

1422
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: that's not I'm not going to be as long as

1423
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: nailed on a World Championship prediction. But I think he

1424
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: can move up three places next year. He was very

1425
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: close to it. I mean, he was number one in

1426
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: the middle of the year, wasn't he pretty much everyone

1427
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: he was, so I think that's fair enough for a decline.

1428
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: I was very tempted to simply say Isaac hadjer because

1429
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: we all know that's what happens at red ball racing,

1430
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: which could very well be the case. This is a

1431
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: hard one. This is a hard one because I feel

1432
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: like everyone right now is where exactly where they belong

1433
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: on my list. I think I'm going it's it's gonna

1434
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: be tough, but I think based on thet he's not

1435
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: going to have a bad year. But I think Max

1436
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: Forstappen will be lower on the list next year. Oh

1437
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: I think Max for Staff has to be because he

1438
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: can't be number Why it could be number one again

1439
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: next year. But I just think that next year, with

1440
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: the shake up we're going to get. I think we're

1441
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: also really well placed at the front of the field

1442
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: where we have so many, as we've talked about, really

1443
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: high performing drivers ready to take their chance. I'm hopeful

1444
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: that we'll have four front running teams at least next year,

1445
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: more or less in the mix, and I don't think

1446
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: it's going to be as obviously Max Verstappen. You know,

1447
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: if Russell's an equal machinery to Max, I think it

1448
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: gives him a reasonable run. I think for that reason

1449
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: it's not going to be a Max easy what next year?

1450
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the Verstapan has been top of my

1451
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 2: list for past five seasons. Down four of those, he's

1452
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: won the World championship, nearly won the fifth one. But

1453
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: it would take something. Given the chaos that's going on there,

1454
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 2: and they've got a new engine project coming in and

1455
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: there's so much change behind the scenes year on year,

1456
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 2: Verstapen would have to be better than he has ever

1457
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: been before to fight for the world champion. You will

1458
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 2: retain number one on this list for next year now

1459
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: after what he's shown in twenty twenty five. I'm not

1460
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: prepared to rule anything out. But when you're at the top,

1461
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: the only way is down, isn't it. So yes, perhaps

1462
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 2: you might have nailed that one.

1463
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 3: Well, well, we'll see.

1464
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: We will see this time next year, because that's all

1465
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: the time we have for pit talk today.

1466
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 3: And this season.

1467
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to Pittalk wherever you get your favorite podcasts,

1468
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: and you can leave us a rating and review as well.

1469
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: And if you're on a platform where you can comment,

1470
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: why not let us know your top performers of the

1471
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: year or your predictions for next season's lists. You can

1472
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: keep up to date with all the latest F one,

1473
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: Supercars and MotoGP news at foxsports dot com dot are you.

1474
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: Matt Clayton's been great to chat about the years motorsport

1475
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: with you this season.

1476
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 2: Very much enjoyed it, Michael. We'll do a few more

1477
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: laps in twenty twenty six and looking forward to get

1478
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: back on it once we get through pre season testing

1479
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 2: in February.

1480
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 3: Yes, it's alarmingly close, isn't it.

1481
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: And thank you for your company for listening in twenty

1482
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: twenty five and we'll catch you next season.