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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: You became the most powerful voice in the Hell's Angels.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think for a time, I probably wash. I

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Speaker 3: was on the news a lot. I don't know if you.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you had a lot of respect, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think I did. You know, I uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, we had taken the name and the logo

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Speaker 3: Hell's Angels and the death Head and we incorporated it

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Speaker 3: started a corporation. We were using the same lawyers that

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Speaker 3: Coca Cola and MasterCard Devsicola were using, and they taught

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Speaker 3: me a lot about branding, and the most important thing

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Speaker 3: they taught me was you've got to control the narrative

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Speaker 3: in the media to protect your brand. And those are

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Speaker 3: the things I started doing in the past. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 3: they would make these wild allegations and nobody would say

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Speaker 3: he's I started. Anytime they said something and I didn't

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Speaker 3: agree with them, I'd do a press release or have

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Speaker 3: a press conference at the clubhouse. And I eventually was

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Speaker 3: controlling the narrative. My name got out there and you know,

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Speaker 3: you could actually looking up in the phone book Hell's

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Speaker 3: Angels Ventura was in the phone book. So if somebody

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Speaker 3: had a question about what the hell's going on with

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Speaker 3: the Hell's Angels? They started calling us in Ventura. You know,

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Speaker 3: we had somebody at the clubhouse twenty four hours a

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Speaker 3: day who always had a guard down there, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I'd go down to the clubhouse and you know, there'd

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Speaker 3: be messages from all over the world, you know, people

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Speaker 3: want to find somebody or asking questions, and you know,

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Speaker 3: some of the questions they asked were very provocative and stupid,

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Speaker 3: you know, asking permission to, you know, can we put

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Speaker 3: a hit on this guy? You know, I'm going I

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Speaker 3: don't want to hear that stuff. You know, So, you know,

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Speaker 3: there was some funny things, but they were also you know,

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Speaker 3: things that could you into a problem. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, while you were president of the chapter, what what

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Speaker 2: do you think was the biggest obstacle that you came

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Speaker 2: across in your years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I became good friends with Are you familiar with

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Speaker 3: the Mexican Mafia? The Mexican Mafia controls the prisons here

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Speaker 3: in the United States, And I became good friends with

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Speaker 3: one of the leaders by accident.

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Speaker 1: And was that while you went in jail all out.

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Speaker 3: I met him through jail afterwards. His name was Mike

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Speaker 3: Eisen and he was a very powerful member of the

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Speaker 3: Mexican mafia. His nickname was Acha the Hatchet, and him

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Speaker 3: and I developed a strong relationship, and it created a

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Speaker 3: lot of problems for me, uh, for law enforcement's perception.

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Speaker 3: All of a sudden there was a tie between the

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Speaker 3: the hell Angels and the Mexican mafia, and so that

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Speaker 3: was a big obstacle. And another time, the FEDS were

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Speaker 3: making allegations that we control the myths and fetamine market

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Speaker 3: in the United States, and I was on are you

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Speaker 3: familiar with sixty minutes? Very popular show here. I was

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Speaker 3: on sixty minutes. Mike Wallace was accusing us of controlling

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Speaker 3: the meth business.

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Speaker 1: And wasn't Wasn't Sonny accused of that?

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Speaker 3: He was? And I I went on sixty minutes and

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Speaker 3: represented the Hell's Angels along with a guy Cisco Valderama.

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Speaker 3: And you know that, like your viewers, you can look

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Speaker 3: it up. It's a sixty minute interview with Mike Wallace

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Speaker 3: and it's a pretty interesting interview. There's an informant. There

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Speaker 3: was a Hell's Angel named Tony Tait that became a

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Speaker 3: FBI informant, and uh, you know, I talk about him

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Speaker 3: on my podcast a lot speak of the devil. He uh,

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Speaker 3: he just infiltrated the club because he wanted to bust

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Speaker 3: Hell's Angels. He wasn't even in trouble. He just did

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Speaker 3: it for sport. Kind of a real love life. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he you know, he gained everybody's trust. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I never liked the guy, so he never got close

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Speaker 3: to me. I didn't like him.

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Speaker 1: What were the cops? Like we did with the cops,

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Speaker 1: difficult to deal with?

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Speaker 3: The cops were very respectful, you know, I've dealt with

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Speaker 3: cops in Europe.

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Speaker 1: What do you think they've changed a lot in the

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Speaker 1: yeas well.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they are as respectful as they used

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Speaker 3: to be. I don't know how they are. In Australia.

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Speaker 3: The police were very respectful to me, but I noticed

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Speaker 3: maybe like the last four or five years, they no

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Speaker 3: longer had the respect for the general membership. You know,

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Speaker 3: they still respected me, but that's probably from the relationship

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Speaker 3: I had with a lot of the guys. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, these guys chase you for thirty years, Neil,

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Speaker 3: I mean you become friends with them in a weird

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Speaker 3: sort of way, you know, I don't know you've probably

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Speaker 3: had cops after you and you get a weird wordvar

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Speaker 3: with them. Yeah, and a lot of the guys, I

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Speaker 3: honestly liked them, you know, and I wish they weren't cops,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: But but then, but then, because you get on with

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Speaker 2: them so well. And the thing is, it's good to

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Speaker 2: have certain cops or anyone in your pocket, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, like to be there to control things.

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Speaker 2: But then other people that say in your club or chapter,

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Speaker 2: see that they think is an informant.

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Speaker 3: They why are you so close to these cops? Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: I mean that's.

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Speaker 1: What they don't know. But they don't understand that it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing to have them there.

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Speaker 3: See, that's occupational hazard. Oh god.

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Speaker 2: There's one thing though that I couldn't stop laughing at,

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Speaker 2: and this was how the hell did someone from an

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Speaker 2: outlaw bikey club get to hold and carry the Olympic torch?

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Speaker 1: Because I put my hand up and I never got it.

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Speaker 3: You know. The ATF was saying real negative things about us.

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Speaker 3: They were going on a character assassination of us. And

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Speaker 3: I knew a lot of the big businessmen in southern

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Speaker 3: California and they had been going to them saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: you need to keep an ear open if you hear

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Speaker 3: anything about the Hell's Angels supplying the weapons to terrorists.

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Speaker 3: We need to know. And these guys started calling me

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Speaker 3: and saying, hey, George ATF's in there and they're making

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Speaker 3: accusations you're going to supply weapons to terrorists. What you

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Speaker 3: have to understand is the ventur clubhouse was about twenty

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Speaker 3: fifteen to twenty minutes away from where they were going

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Speaker 3: to hold all the water events. So they said we

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Speaker 3: would have a perfect line to them. We can, you know,

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Speaker 3: supplying the weapons. They thought, they said they were going

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Speaker 3: to do something. I don't think for one minute they

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Speaker 3: ever thought there was going to be a terrorist attack

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Speaker 3: or that we were going to be involved in it.

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Speaker 3: I think it was just bad, bad publicity. And what

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Speaker 3: happened was I saw that the Olympic torch relay was

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Speaker 3: coming and for a fee you could you could put

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Speaker 3: money up and you could carry the torch for a kilumter.

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Speaker 3: And that's what we did there. Again. You know, that's

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Speaker 3: controlling the narrative. You know, they were saying negative things

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Speaker 3: about us, and we threw it back in their face,

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Speaker 3: and it really really backfired on the FEDS, but you know,

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Speaker 3: it also created problems for us because they were very

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Speaker 3: mad at us. And eventually someone threw a hand grenade

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Speaker 3: in the clubhouse, and my suspicion was that it was

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Speaker 3: a rogue ATF agent. The any of your viewers out

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Speaker 3: there that's been in the military knows that a hand

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Speaker 3: grenade has a spoon on it, and you pull a pin,

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Speaker 3: you throw the grenade, and the spring puts the handle

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Speaker 3: away from the body of the grenade and sets the timer,

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Speaker 3: and the grenade went into the clubhouse, but the spoon

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Speaker 3: was laying in the doorway, And what I did was

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Speaker 3: I got the numbers off the spoon, had a private

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Speaker 3: investigator investigate where it came from, and it was traced

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Speaker 3: back to an armory in Akron, Ohio. And that's the

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Speaker 3: same town the ATF agents that were making those accusations.

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Speaker 3: So you know, my thought was that they did it.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of a retribution for making them look so

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Speaker 3: bad in the media. But you know, I don't think

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Speaker 3: the ATF did it. I don't think it was a

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Speaker 3: director that came down from upper echelon ATF agents. I

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Speaker 3: think it was two or three rogue agents. They took

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Speaker 3: it upon themselves through the hand grenade in there. We

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Speaker 3: had a couple of members really got injured bad. But no,

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Speaker 3: I thank god.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, you just don't miss it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't miss what I walked away from.

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Speaker 1: Are you comfortable being? Are you comfortable being you now?

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Speaker 2: Where you can just you know, like it's like me,

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Speaker 2: I'm out of the scene now and I don't have

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Speaker 2: to look over my shoulder all the time anymore. I

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Speaker 2: can walk, I can talk to people who used to

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Speaker 2: be enemies, and I like that.

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Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, I've experienced the same thing. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean sometimes I think about, you know, going down

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Speaker 3: to the clubhouse and hanging out with the guys. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's you know, I spent a lot of time down there.

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Speaker 3: I spent forty years around the Hell's Angels, in fifty

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Speaker 3: years around that lifestyle. You know, I walked away from

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Speaker 3: it and I left it behind. But like you say,

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Speaker 3: I can walk into a red I don't have to

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Speaker 3: sit with my uh you know, facing the door. I'm

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Speaker 3: not worried about somebody doing something. I'm you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: seventy six years old. He's face the door, well, he says,

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Speaker 3: I still face the door