1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: It defies belief that someone like Sean Christian Price was 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: released on a corrections order to live in the community 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: because he was clearly a very dangerous, deluded, and to 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: some extent deranged individual. They burnt the boat to the 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: waterline and they live there in a state of nature. Now, 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: state of nature is not a great thing, because people 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: do very bad things to each other. I'm Andrew Rule. 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: This is life and crimes. One of the worst crimes 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: that I've covered since my time back here at the 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Herald Sun in Melbourne is the murder of a seventeen 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: year old schoolgirl called Marsha Bookatish. Marsha lived with her 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: parents in Doncaster, which is the leafy Eastern suburbs, good 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: solid middle class suburb where people work hard and do 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: the best they can. And Marsha was a good student 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: at second school. She worked hard, she had a lot 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: of friends. She was keen to become a lawyer and 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: was studying very hard. But each night after dinner, an 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: early dinner, she would go for a walk because she 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: liked fitness and stuff like that, so she would walk 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: from her parents' house across I think I saw a 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: footbridge into what is called the Ku Nung Linear Park, 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: which is a park full of gum trees and things 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: that runs down a bit of a valley out there 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: at Doncaster. And on Saint Patrick's Day twenty fifteen, that's 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: March the seventeenth, Marsha goes walking after dinner as usual 26 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: and doesn't come home. What happened that night was that 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: she was basically stalked, ambushed, grabbed by a complete loose cannon, 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: a very dangerous young man called Sean Christian Price. And 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 1: today we're going to talk mostly about Sewn Christian Price 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: and how his life story converged with Marshes and destroyed 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Marsha and therefore to some extent, destroyed her family because 32 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: I don't think they would ever really get over losing 33 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: their beautiful, kind and loving seventeen year old daughter and sister. 34 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: Shawn Christian Price was a very different kettle of fish. 35 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Ten years after that murder, he is in a high 36 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: security unit in Victoria's most high security prison, which is 37 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: Barwin down the Geelong Wall out of Geelong towards Bachus Marsh, 38 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: and there he is kept under lock and key most 39 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: of the time. When I say lock and key, I 40 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: mean even internally the people that handle him, the prison 41 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: officers and the authorities who give the orders, they have 42 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of who's who in their particular 43 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: concretes zoo, and they know, or they think, that Sewn 44 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: Christian Price is a very dangerous man and probably always 45 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: will be while he is strong and fit enough to 46 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: be so, because he is volatile, he's unpredictable, and when 47 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: he goes off, he's very very violent. He's also as 48 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: if somebody said to me, he's mad. He's bad, but 49 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: he's not stupid, and that makes him probably more dangerous 50 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: because he can sit and wait, he can think most 51 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: of the time. The prison authorities keep Sewn Christian Price 52 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: separated from fellow inmates. They detect, underneath this sort of 53 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: calm exterior and his attachment to routine, that he can 54 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: never be completely trusted. He's now forty one years old. 55 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: He faces another thirty years before being eligible for parole. 56 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: In fact, following this murder, he was sentenced to thirty 57 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: eight years minimum plus another three years for a rape 58 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: that he committed two days after the murder. It's the 59 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: most horrible thing what he did. It seems that Sean 60 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: Price chose Marsha at random after criss crossing Melbourne suburbs 61 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: looking for a victim. But his attack was premeditated, but 62 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: he didn't know who it was that he was going 63 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: to attack and murder until he saw Marsha. He saw 64 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: her and thought, she's the one I'm going to kill her. 65 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: What it was about her that fitted the bill, I 66 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: don't know, but probably the fact that she was vulnerable. 67 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: She had the earbuds in which means she couldn't hear 68 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: people walk up behind her, which is instructive if you 69 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: are walking around in the early evening through bush and 70 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: parks and things where there are not other people, no company, 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: and the light's not probably listening to music or to 72 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: podcasts such as this is not the best idea because 73 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: other people can walk up behind you and you don't 74 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: know they're there, which is a point Mirth pondering. The 75 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: other thing was she was in this park, surrounded by bush. 76 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: He was able to hide behind a tree, jump out 77 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: and grab her, and so it was really a matter 78 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: of opportunity. He's an opportunist. I don't really think that 79 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: there was anything about her that triggered him any more 80 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: than if it had been any one of fifty other 81 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: young women, or perhaps any women. The police were able 82 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: to piece together his movements and his moods even beforehand, 83 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: which showed that he'd been building up to this motiveless 84 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: murder for weeks at least. Now. Signs of prices, growing agitation, 85 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: and growing menace showed up in all sorts of ways. 86 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: One you would think was in his choice of reading matter. 87 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: He was a guy that read quite a lot, and 88 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: in the weeks before the murder, he'd borrowed books from 89 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: Brimbank Library out in the Western suburbs where he was 90 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: then living that reflected not only his ghoulish interests but 91 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: showed an increasingly dark and disturbed state of mind. Price 92 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: was reading about the serial killer Ivan Mulatt. There's a 93 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: very dark and gripping book about Ivan Malatt called The 94 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: Sins of the Brother written by Lez Kennedy and a 95 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: very fine writer called Mark Whittaker, which may well be 96 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 1: the one that he was reading. And he also read 97 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: about a crazed Swede, a man who called himself Thomas Quick, 98 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: who was convicted a couple of decades ago of multiple killings, 99 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: but was then retried and acquitted after revealing that he'd 100 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: made dozens of false submissions. This Thomas Quick case is 101 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: quite a cause celeb in Scandinavia and to some extent 102 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: in Britain, because this man Quick had made false admissions 103 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: about killing children all over Scandinavia, and although there was 104 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: not one shred of actual physical smoking gun evidence, DNA 105 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,679 Speaker 1: blood type nothing to connect him to any of these murders, 106 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: he was convicted of something like seven or eight of 107 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: them out of thirty, which was very embarrassing for all concerned. 108 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: When he said, no, I made all that up. I 109 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: want to be retried, and they granted him a retrial, 110 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: and a very good lawyer proved to the court that 111 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: there wasn't one shred of real evidence to connect this 112 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: poor mad guy with those murders. That is a cautionary 113 00:07:54,080 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: tale for all judges, juries and detectives. To get back 114 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: to Shun Price, it looked as if he was preparing 115 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: for what was ahead when he got up before dawn 116 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: on that Monday morning of March seventeenth, twenty fifteen. Price 117 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: was living in public housing in Albion. Now, Albion's one 118 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: of those little suburbs that you don't know's there unless 119 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: you live next door. It's like Dallas out of broad Meadows, 120 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: or one of those subsets of a bigger suburban albions, 121 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: not far from Saint Urbans, not far from Sunshine, and 122 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: not that far from out of foots Gray. But it 123 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: has its own little shopping center or whatever, and it's 124 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: a pretty or was then a reasonably low rent sort 125 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: of district. And there were blocks of flats there that 126 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: were probably getting towards the end of their useful life, 127 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: and those blocks of flats were cheap for the government 128 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: to rent. And one of those blocks I think was 129 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: used to some extent as a bit of a halfway 130 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: house for people like Sewn Price that had been let 131 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: out of prison on various things bail, parole, and I 132 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: think corrections orders, so that they would be let out 133 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: on the basis that they reported in daily or weekly 134 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: or whatever it is to the local corrections office. And 135 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: it was one way to lessen the burden of providing 136 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: prison beds, but to have at least some vague control 137 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: over prisoners who probably many of them should have been 138 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: in prison. It defies belief that someone like Sean Christian 139 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: Price was released on a corrections order to live in 140 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:58,119 Speaker 1: the community because he was clearly a very dangerous, deluded, 141 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: and to some extent ranged individual. Now Shawn Christian Price 142 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: had a background which was explored a little when he 143 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: was charged with the murder. His background is very dark 144 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: and very bad. He'd been the victim of systematic child 145 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: abuse as a little kid. He'd grown up in very 146 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: dire circumstances where various relatives and family members were alcoholics, 147 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: were drug addicts, were sex offenders, and all of the 148 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: above affected the way that little sewn Christian Price was 149 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: brought up because he was abused. Some of the major 150 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: adults in his family were drug takers, they were criminals 151 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: of various levels, They were violent, and none of this 152 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: was good for him, both by example a very bad example, 153 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: and mainly because it greatly affected him because he was abused, 154 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: and it affected the way his mind developed naturally enough, 155 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: and so he grew into a rather tall, lean, pretty 156 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: good looking sort of a young man, but an extremely 157 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: disturbed one and very dangerous and by the age of 158 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: his high teen so Tommy's eighteen nineteen twenty, he was 159 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: a very violent sex offender. He would ask someone for 160 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: directions out in the suburbs. You know, do you know 161 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: how to show me where to go to Smith Street, 162 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And having made that connection, he 163 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: would follow that person, probably someone that he, you know, 164 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: he picked out at a railway station or a bus 165 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: station or whatever. He would follow them home and then 166 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: attack them. And this meant that he had attacked and 167 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted various people and he went inside for these 168 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: very serious crimes and was locked up. Then for whatever reason, 169 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: he ended up outside of prison system and inside the 170 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: Thomas Embling Institution for people with dangerous mental illness, basically 171 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: what was once called the criminally insane. Back in the 172 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: old old days, there was a ward at Arrarat, I 173 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: think that was for the criminally insane. In more modern 174 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: times we have the Thomas Embling facility now. Back in 175 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: the early two thousands, in fact, in two thousand and six, 176 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: this Sean Christian Price hit the headlines very briefly because 177 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: he was the inmate at the Thomas Embling who punched 178 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: the then health Minister Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott was doing a 179 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: routine visit at this place to have a look at it, 180 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: and this guy Price launched himself at the health minister 181 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: and punched him, which was covered in the media at 182 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: the time, of course, but we've instantly forgot who'd done 183 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: it because he was sort of a no name lunatic, 184 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: and by and large Sean Price found his way in 185 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: and out of institutions after that date, from two thousand 186 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: and three, two thousand and six all the way along 187 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: until in twenty fourteen or thereabouts. He is turned loose 188 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: on the street, in effect because they led him to 189 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: this corrections order while living in a flat in Albion 190 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: near Sunshine in the western suburbs of Melbourne, and that 191 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: decision to let him do that is what led him 192 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: to have the freedom of movement to do what he did, 193 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: and what he did was basically make a plan to 194 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: kill an innocent young woman, and he did. He stalked 195 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: and killed Marsha Bukatish. The murder, a little like the 196 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: murder of Juel Maher about two and a half years earlier, 197 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: enraged and angered a lot of people in Victoria. They 198 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: felt that it was very similar to the Jill Marques 199 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: in some ways it was, and the public at large, 200 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: or segments of the public, saw it as further proof 201 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: that women could not walk around safely at night or 202 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: any other time without fear of being attacked, which was true. 203 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: Although to be fair to everyone else, Seawan Price was 204 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: not an example of a hostile husband or a jealous boyfriend. 205 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: He was, in fact a very dangerous lunatic. He's a 206 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: man with mental problems. He was criminally insane in many ways. 207 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: And it's not a lot of points to be scored 208 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: about somebody like him, except to say this that when 209 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: you get someone like him, they really need to be 210 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: locked up, just as a dog with rabies needs to 211 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: be locked up, because they're just too dangerous to be 212 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: around the rest of us. As a Supreme Court judge 213 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: pointed out subsequently, the judge in the murder case, Lex Lazry, 214 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: actually was very vocal about the fact that someone like 215 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: Price had been turned loose and said it was a 216 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: very bad thing to have happened, which was true. And 217 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: of course hindsight is a wonderful thing. So what is 218 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: it that creates someone like this Shawn Christian Price? Isn't 219 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: nature or nurture? Well, we've already alluded to his background, 220 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: but there's a deeper, darker background to Sean Price, his 221 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: middle name Christian. It's there for a reason. This was 222 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: raised in one of his coat appearances by his defense counsel. 223 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: Defense counsel that he sacked during his murder trial because 224 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: his defense funnily enough, and this is a very fine 225 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: defense council called Mandy Fox, who has since became a judge, 226 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: so clearly a very good lawyer. Mandy Fox attempted to 227 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: put a defense case for her client by pointing out 228 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: to the court that his upbringing had been deplorable, that 229 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: he was the product of child abuse, and someone now 230 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: Sean who'd been very uninterested in the proceedings before this, 231 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: had sometimes ranted and raved and used swear words and 232 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: sometimes used to obscend gestures in court, etc. He suddenly 233 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: became very animated and interested in his own defense counsel, 234 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: and he sacked up and said, I don't want you 235 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: to defend me anymore. And it would seem that he 236 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: did not want the full circumstances of his childhood and 237 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: childhood abuse aired in court because it was so grievous. 238 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: Now do we know that for a fact, No, we don't, 239 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: but he did object to it. He sacked his lawyer, 240 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: and he made an attempt of defending himself without raising 241 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: any of that sort of material, and In fact, what 242 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: he did was he got up and said, I don't 243 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: want any sympathy, I don't want any special concessions. I 244 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: did it, and I deserve to be punished all words 245 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: that effect, basically as a way to avoid that material 246 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: being aired in public. Now that is an insight into 247 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: the workings of the mind of the child that became 248 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: the man. Sure Christian Price was descended from Fletcher Christian. 249 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: Fletcher Christian was of course the most famous of the 250 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: mutineers from the Bounty, the ship on which there was 251 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: a mutiny against Captain Bligh back in the late seventeen eighties. 252 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: I do believe something like that. And Fletcher Christian was 253 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: a first mates mate was something. He had some sort 254 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: of rank in them hierarchy on the ship, and he 255 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: was the de facto leader of the mutineers. They saw 256 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: bly as a tyrannical captain, etc. Etc. And what the 257 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: mutineers did was placed Fly and other senior officers such 258 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: as you know, a ship's surgeon and so on, in 259 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: a glorified rowing boat. You know, they had, I think 260 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: like a life beat or a whaling boat as they 261 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: called them, with some oars and a bucket of water, 262 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: and not much else, some bread or something, and set 263 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: them afloat on the ocean, on the Pacific, I think, 264 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: and basically knowing that those men would probably drown or 265 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: dive first. Now, due to Bli's genius as a navigator, 266 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: those abandoned seamen actually got their way to safety, which 267 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: was one of the great survival stories of all time. Meanwhile, 268 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: the mutineers, what they did was not so good. They 269 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: took the boat the bounty, and they went to Tahiti, 270 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: I do believe, and they kidnapped and abducted six Tarhitian 271 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: men and eighteen Tahitian women. And you can see where 272 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: this is going. They enslaved those Tartaritians by and large, 273 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: got them on board, and they headed off into the 274 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: ocean towards an uninhabited island that they knew of, a 275 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: tiny island called pit Can Pitcan Island. And they got there, 276 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: they unloaded the boat of all the goods they could, 277 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: and the timbers and the tools and all the rest 278 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: of it, bolts of cloth, canvas, anything useful, and of 279 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: course the stores, you know, salt, pork, and all the 280 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: rest of the stuff they had. And then they burnt 281 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: the ship and they burnt the ship because they knew 282 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: that the British Navy would send battleships after them, and 283 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: that the battleships would eventually see the bounty mord at 284 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: pit Can and come in and take them all and 285 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: hang them, no doubt for mutiny. And so they burnt 286 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: the boat to the waterline, and they lived there in 287 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: a state of nature. Now, state of nature is not 288 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: a great thing, because people do very bad things to 289 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: each other. Now, these eight mutineers and the captives, that is, 290 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: eighteen women and half a dozen Tasian men, they arrived 291 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: on pitt Kenn in seventeen ninety. Now, by the time 292 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: an American whaling ship visited the island in eighteen eight, 293 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: that's eighteen years later, almost a generation. All but one 294 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: of the eight mutineers, including Fletcher Christian, had been killed 295 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: in fights with each other and with the Tahitians. By then, 296 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: the enslaved women at given birth to the first generation 297 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: of pitt Can Islanders. This included Fletcher Christian's son, Thursday 298 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: October Christian. We know when he was born. He's born 299 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: on a Thursday in October, which year probably seven point 300 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: ninety one, not sure. Thursday October Christians many descendants are 301 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: among the few hundred Pitcurners, as they call them Pitcurners 302 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: who survive on Pitcn and on Norfolk Island and scattered 303 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: around New Zealand and Australia. These Pitcn Islanders have spread 304 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: over the years. They not only went to Norfolk Island, 305 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: which is well known in about eighteen fifty because Pitken 306 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: was overcrowded. They also over time have spread to Auckland 307 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: in New Zealand and to parts of Australian Melbourne and Sydney, 308 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: where they do all sorts of things, some of them 309 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: heavily involved in shady operations, particularly prostitution. As it turns out, 310 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: the creepy combination of criminal and cannibal trapped on an 311 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: island bred a closed society where child sets abuse was 312 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: rife and it was accepted under this catual excuse of 313 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: it's the Polynesian way. Now supporters of that sort of 314 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: attitude included, can you believe this? The millionaire author Colleen McCulloch. 315 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: Now some listeners will recall her as the author of 316 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: The Thornbirds, which was made into a big film that 317 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: sold millions of books. Was made to a very big 318 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: film with I think Brian Brown as the handsome priest, 319 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: and somebody else and somebody else. It was a very 320 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: big film around the place, and off the back of 321 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: it more books were sold, and it made Colin McCulloch 322 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: quite a wealthy and fairly famous author. Now Colen, in 323 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: her wisdom, went out and lived on Norfolk Island, thinking 324 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: it was a good place, and she married a pitceroner. 325 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: And she was once quoted as saying by a reporter, 326 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: I was quoted in print as saying, quote, it's Polynesian. 327 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: It's a Polynesian way to break your girl in at twelve. 328 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: In other words, she was promoting basically child rape. Really 329 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: the truth of this lifestyle, if that's the right word 330 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: of this entrenched abuse was exposed in the year two 331 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: thousand when British police arrived to investigate the rape of 332 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: a teenage girl on Pitgen Island. Pit Keen is sort 333 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: of a British dominion or protectorate words that effect. The 334 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: British police spoked to dozens of women, some on the 335 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: island and some who had fled from it, and they 336 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: uncovered a network of interwoven maze of sex abuse that 337 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: went back I'd say eight generations. Each victim was related 338 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: to the men being charged with similar offenses against other 339 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: young girls. Husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles, and cousins were part 340 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: of systematic abuse that had been a way of life 341 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: on Pitcn and most likely also on Norfolk Island, where 342 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: so many of them had moved back in the mid 343 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties. Some defended, some actually defended this tradition of 344 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: underage sex. Others were ashamed. Almost every man on pitt 345 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: Ken was investigated, and six were eventually convicted of thirty 346 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: five charges in two thousand and four, after trials that 347 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: attracted international attention. An English journalist Kathy Marx and I 348 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: spoke to this woman. She's very good. She lived on 349 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: the island to cover the trials and later wrote a 350 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: book called Lost Paradise. Good title. Kathy Marks believed that 351 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: convictions were the tip of the iceberg of the praved 352 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: practices that affected these pitt Kerner clans even when they 353 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: moved to mainland communities. And this is where we're getting 354 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: closer to shorn Christian Price. None of this excuses Shorn 355 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: Price's evil acts, but it might explain the forces that 356 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: shaped him. Whether before his birth or after it. What 357 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't explain is why the parole board would release 358 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: someone so dangerous against the wishes of a judge. It 359 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: seemed a random thing to do. Like the toss of 360 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: a coin heads, he stays in tails, he goes out. 361 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: When Shawn Price won the toss and was let out, 362 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: Marsha Vuketish lost. She lost her life. Unlike Thomas Quick, 363 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: the Swedish lunatic murderer or non murderer who made a 364 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: string of false confessions in the nineteen nineties, Price is 365 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: absolutely guilty, beyond any doubt. But something that Thomas Quick's 366 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: tough old defense lawyer told a reporter rings true. I 367 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: just found this quote recently and it struck me as 368 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: true about this case and about many others. This old 369 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: lawyer said, I don't like people that much in general, 370 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: but if you spend so much time with a client, 371 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: you see the person behind the headlines. It all starts 372 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: with a little boy under a Christmas tree playing with toys, 373 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: and it ends up very tragic. Somewhere along the line. 374 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: Everyone's a victim. Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is 375 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: a Sunday Herald Sun production for true crime Australia. Our 376 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: producer is Johnny Burton. For my columns, features and more, 377 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: go to heroldsn dot com dot au, forward Slash Andrew Rule. 378 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: One word advertising inquiries go to news Podcasts sold at 379 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: news dot com dot au. That is all one word 380 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: news podcasts sold. And if you want further information about 381 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: this episode, links are in the description.