Speaker 1: That evening.
Speaker 2: It was one of the hardest things I think I've
Speaker 2: ever experienced in my life.
Speaker 3: You have worked for years to try and advocate for
Speaker 3: a voice to Parliament.
Speaker 4: Can you explain what's running through your head at this moment.
Speaker 1: I'm devastated.
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of people that have done
Speaker 2: a lot of hard work, you know, not just here
Speaker 2: in this room, but across Australia. You know, many thousands
Speaker 2: of volunteers.
Speaker 4: Thomas Mayo is an optimist by nature, but on the
Speaker 4: evening of October fourteen last year, his optimism was put
Speaker 4: to the ultimate test. It was the night the referendum
Speaker 4: he campaigned so hard for was so utterly defeated.
Speaker 1: So many emotions all at once.
Speaker 2: It was you know, anger, sadness, and I think the
Speaker 2: words that I said were pretty raw at.
Speaker 1: The time, you know.
Speaker 2: And I was quite disappointed in the result, of course,
Speaker 2: but I was mostly disappointed in the way that one
Speaker 2: side of politics, Peter Dutton, chose to use it as
Speaker 2: a political opportunity. But we have seen in a disgusting
Speaker 2: No campaign, a campaign that has been dishonest, that has
Speaker 2: lied to the Australian people. And I'm sure that'll come
Speaker 2: out in the analysis. I'm sure that history will reflect
Speaker 2: poorly on Peter Dutton, Pauline Hansen, all of those that
Speaker 2: have opposed this.
Speaker 4: And although the referendums saw Australians vote resemblingly against the Voice,
Speaker 4: Thomas has not given up hope. In fact, he's written
Speaker 4: a new book always was, always will be, outlining a
Speaker 4: vision for what comes next.
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to the constitution, how this
Speaker 2: country is structured, we can't blame the forefathers of Australia.
Speaker 2: We can blame ourselves for not getting it done last year.
Speaker 2: It's us, under our watch in our time that we
Speaker 2: rejected average non terrest right island of people that sixty
Speaker 2: five thousand years of history and culture. We rejected that
Speaker 2: as being part of who we are in our founding document.
Speaker 2: But with this book, I had to think about that
Speaker 2: and let go of any bitterness. You know, I still
Speaker 2: feel an urgent need for change in this country. I
Speaker 2: see the Closing the Gap Report continuing to report failures,
Speaker 2: so far from relaxed in that sense, and I hope
Speaker 2: this book can dust off people, give them the hope
Speaker 2: they need to keep backing us up.
Speaker 4: Apart from writing the book, were able to get any
Speaker 4: sort of downtime with your family after I mean, I
Speaker 4: remember seeing you on the trail and you hadn't seen
Speaker 4: your family or weren't going to see your family for months.
Speaker 4: Did you get time to spend some quality of time
Speaker 4: with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely I did. I enjoyed going fishing with them
Speaker 2: and going camping. I think one of the most special
Speaker 2: things was being able to get out on the salt
Speaker 2: water again with the family. I love fishing, I love hunting,
Speaker 2: and so do my kids. And we got out to
Speaker 2: our favorite fishing spot, caught some travalis, you know, a
Speaker 2: nice firm white flesh for making numbers.
Speaker 1: And in the.
Speaker 2: Build up weather very humid, like swimming through the air.
Speaker 2: It's so hot like a soup. We made fresh numbers
Speaker 2: and it's lemon and vinegar and chili and raw onion
Speaker 2: and raw fish cooked in the yocidity put in the
Speaker 2: ski and it's just such a wonderful thing to eat
Speaker 2: cold in that weather while you're fishing. And I asked
Speaker 2: my little daughter Ruby what her favorite part of the
Speaker 2: fishing trip was, and she said that it was making
Speaker 2: the numbers out at sea.
Speaker 4: Beautiful, beautiful. I want to try some of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's lovely. You've got to try it, brother, when
Speaker 1: you're in Darwin with.
Speaker 4: Me From Schwarts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.
Speaker 4: In the months leading up to the referendum, like many
Speaker 4: other publicly outspoken supporters of the Voice, Thomas Mayo experienced
Speaker 4: a barrage of attacks from conservative media outlets. He said
Speaker 4: that even though the campaign for Yes lost the vote,
Speaker 4: what they did gain was resilience and a new generation
Speaker 4: of Indigenous leaders.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 4: Aboriginal torres Strat Island to activist Thomas Mayo on his
Speaker 4: new book and the Continuing Fight for Justice and Recognition
Speaker 4: for First Nations People. It's Wednesday, September four, Thomas. In
Speaker 4: the book, you mentioned that during the campaign, and probably
Speaker 4: before that, really, there were a number of assertions made
Speaker 4: by opponents of the Yes campaign, the first being the
Speaker 4: notion of elite Aboriginals and the second being the notion
Speaker 4: that Australia treats all people the same. Can you tell
Speaker 4: us about what you have to say about those two nations?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, the argument that we heard throughout the campaign
Speaker 2: that we shouldn't listen to Indigenous leaders because they're elite.
Speaker 2: You know, because they might have achieved some academic qualifications,
Speaker 2: or they might have risen to leadership in their peak
Speaker 2: health bodies, or they might have advocated for many many
Speaker 2: years and then that having been recognized, participated in the
Speaker 2: process towards the hope of achieving the referendum.
Speaker 5: Said Indigenous people in remote communities were also struggling, but
Speaker 5: didn't say why. I'll tell you why they're struggling. Because
Speaker 5: the elites and activists of the Aboriginal industry like Pearson
Speaker 5: are responsible for it. They are responsible for entrenching a
Speaker 5: disadvantage so their taxpayer grating train.
Speaker 6: This says not about United Asia. This is about insulting
Speaker 6: our intelligence and demanding that we succumb to what these
Speaker 6: elites want.
Speaker 3: Full of Aboriginal dissent continually.
Speaker 5: Who are you know, in the elite of this country.
Speaker 3: Who are turning around and continually saying, you know, it's
Speaker 3: all the fault of the white man.
Speaker 2: This is just a nonsense, really, that we should think
Speaker 2: that people that have done so much hard work should
Speaker 2: suddenly be seen as elites and not listened to. I
Speaker 2: don't think there's any other profession where you know, your
Speaker 2: experts should be ignored you know, it's just a ridiculous
Speaker 2: argument and we heard it, so I address that.
Speaker 1: And you know, the other one.
Speaker 2: Is how people say that all Australians are treated the same,
Speaker 2: that Indigenous people are equal as it stands today, and
Speaker 2: you need only look at the statistics to understand that
Speaker 2: that isn't true. You know, what should be common sense
Speaker 2: is that Indigenous people are human. You know, we're just
Speaker 2: like anyone else in our ability to have full and
Speaker 2: healthy lives. And there must be something wrong. There must
Speaker 2: be something inequal if you have such inequal statistics. And
Speaker 2: you know, it's a racist notion in itself to think
Speaker 2: that the incarceration rates, the life expectancy gap is somehow
Speaker 2: the fault of Indigenous people and our communities.
Speaker 4: Despite the defeat, the Yes campaign garnered six point two
Speaker 4: million votes, really, thousands of volunteers to the course. What's
Speaker 4: happened with all that energy? Has there been any planning
Speaker 4: on as to how to tap into that momentum since
Speaker 4: the defeat?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people were down in
Speaker 2: the doldrums really, and that's understandable. You know, people put
Speaker 2: their hearts and souls into this, you know, they put
Speaker 2: themselves in front of the most nasty elements of Australia
Speaker 2: that was stirred up by some really nasty people that
Speaker 2: would do that for their own political gain, and I
Speaker 2: refer to them in the book as bad actors. But
Speaker 2: I think people are still asking the question what's next,
Speaker 2: and I see some great work being done. There is
Speaker 2: work being done behind the scenes to create the ability
Speaker 2: for us to speak with one voice on common matters
Speaker 2: across the country. There's work being done behind the scenes
Speaker 2: on that. Allies for ULARU. You know, a whole lot
Speaker 2: of organizations have had a summit recently in Wollongong talking
Speaker 2: about how they go forward and continue their solidarity. I
Speaker 2: know that many of the social media groups are still together,
Speaker 2: you know, the Yes twenty three social media groups, all
Speaker 2: those you know, grassroots created movements, you know, reconciliation groups
Speaker 2: had a swell of membership and they're looking to continue.
Speaker 1: So I think they just needed guidance.
Speaker 2: And you know, one of the reasons I believed in
Speaker 2: a Voice so much was because we need that structure
Speaker 2: to give that guidance and to point in the direction
Speaker 2: that we need to go and bring people along with us.
Speaker 1: And that's very.
Speaker 2: Difficult without it, and so I knew it would take
Speaker 2: some time, so put together this book to give that guidance.
Speaker 4: After the break. What the future looks like through Thomas
Speaker 4: Mayo's eyes. Thomas, we've been talking about the past, particularly
Speaker 4: the referendum result, but as you've indicated, the book is
Speaker 4: just as much about the future as it is about
Speaker 4: the past. So what does that future look like?
Speaker 2: The future looks like justice and recognition for First Nations people,
Speaker 2: which is all we were trying to do last year,
Speaker 2: and it is what will continue to do.
Speaker 1: And what gives me.
Speaker 2: Hope, brother, is that I know that young people voted yes,
Speaker 2: you know Generation Z. There was an overwhelming yes vote
Speaker 2: from young voters. And I think that those young people
Speaker 2: will continue to support this because they've had a completely
Speaker 2: different education to many older Australians and they don't hold
Speaker 2: the prejudices that older Australians have. And so that gives
Speaker 2: me great hope. And I know that we will achieve
Speaker 2: what we tried to do last year. I know we
Speaker 2: will achieve justice and recognition for our people. It's just
Speaker 2: going to take more time. The other thing that gives
Speaker 2: me great hope is that every time we've been trying
Speaker 2: to achieve things equal wages, you know, right to vote,
Speaker 2: land rights, native title. We were always met with the
Speaker 2: answer no, and so you know we will achieve this goal.
Speaker 2: I put together a formula about how we get there,
Speaker 2: and that formula involves a people's movement, so continuing to
Speaker 2: build that understanding in our community, the familiarity that Australians
Speaker 2: have with us, so that they can more easily discern
Speaker 2: what is a lie or what is truth about us.
Speaker 2: It involves organizations acting, which many organizations are through their
Speaker 2: reconciliation action plans, and I think that is something that
Speaker 2: is on the rise.
Speaker 1: Still.
Speaker 2: Good government policy policies that ensure that there is a
Speaker 2: voice for Indigenous people, that we're consulted before decisions are
Speaker 2: made to give a self determination. Combine those things, though
Speaker 2: with consistency, and we've had each of those three things
Speaker 2: from time to time, but they've never been consistent, and
Speaker 2: that's how we get there.
Speaker 4: Have you been disappointed by the government seemingly walking away
Speaker 4: from its commitment to a Macarata commission and where does
Speaker 4: that leave the idea of truth and treaty.
Speaker 1: I have been disappointed by that.
Speaker 6: Minister pre election in twenty twenty two, your Labor Conference
Speaker 6: adopted Macarata as a policy. It was precosted at twenty
Speaker 6: seven point seven million dollars and you even put five
Speaker 6: point eight million dollar in the twenty twenty two budget
Speaker 6: to commence work on establishing an independent Macarati Commission to
Speaker 6: oversee processes for agreement making and truth showing. Why is
Speaker 6: this Fabor government now, particularly the Prime Minister, breaking this
Speaker 6: election promise to the Australian people and gas lighting First
Speaker 6: Nations people about this election problem? Thank you, Senator Crop.
Speaker 2: I'm disappointed because I think there's a miscalculation here politically
Speaker 2: that somehow standing up for what is right when it
Speaker 2: comes to First Nations people is no longer popular, is
Speaker 2: no longer something that people want, and is somehow going
Speaker 2: to lose them votes.
Speaker 3: But as I said in the previous response, we learned
Speaker 3: from the referendum and the pain and hardship that that
Speaker 3: created to First Nations people in this country was the
Speaker 3: fact that there was no bipartisan support and we will
Speaker 3: not endeavor down that pathway without the support of the
Speaker 3: opposition the opposite.
Speaker 2: I would rather see some backbone from our government to
Speaker 2: stand up to the opposite side that you know, confused
Speaker 2: and fear among it last year in the referendum and
Speaker 2: continue to do so. There is so much truth that
Speaker 2: is behind standing up against their lies and tactics of intimidation,
Speaker 2: and that's what I would rather see, a continuing vision
Speaker 2: and calling out the bad actors.
Speaker 4: And finally, a lot of what needs to be done
Speaker 4: will need to be done by future generations. Do you
Speaker 4: think they're ready to take up the challenge?
Speaker 2: Amongst all of those positive things that did happen last
Speaker 2: year was a whole lot of young people that stepped
Speaker 2: up to leadership that stared down those tactics of intimidation
Speaker 2: that you know, I think built some resilience and some
Speaker 2: experience and will be much stronger going forward. So yes,
Speaker 2: I think there is a new generation of Indigenous leaders
Speaker 2: that are coming through strong and will take us to.
Speaker 1: That destination justice and recognition for First Nations people.
Speaker 4: Thomas, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: Thanks Daniel.
Speaker 4: Also in the news as a bus, Mark Burchers says
Speaker 4: his comments about the security threshold for Palestinian visas has
Speaker 4: been misrepresented and distorted. On ABC seven point thirty, Burgess
Speaker 4: reaffirmed that supporting a Palestinian homeland is not in itself
Speaker 4: a violent extremist ideology, while material or financial support to
Speaker 4: terrorist organizations such as Hamas is a security problem. It
Speaker 4: was also revealed yesterday that more than three one hundred
Speaker 4: Palestinians applied for onshore protection visas in June and July
Speaker 4: as their initial tourist visas reach their expiry. More than
Speaker 4: forty thousand Palestinians have been killed since October seven, and
Speaker 4: there's been a major breakthrough in stem cell research as
Speaker 4: scientists from the Murdoch Children's Research Institute have grown human
Speaker 4: blood stem cells in a lab for the first time ever.
Speaker 4: When injected into mice, the lab grown blood stem cells
Speaker 4: become functional bone marrow in fifty percent of cases, meaning
Speaker 4: they can carry oxygen and fight infections. Scientists believe this
Speaker 4: new innovation could be the basis for new therapies for
Speaker 4: blood cancering humans, replacing bone marrow destroyed by radiation and
Speaker 4: chemotherapy treatments. I'm Daniel James seven am will be back tomorrow.