WEBVTT - Thomas Mayo on continuing the fight for recognition 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:00.800 That evening. 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:03.080 It was one of the hardest things I think I've 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:04.480 ever experienced in my life. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.080 You have worked for years to try and advocate for 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:09.200 a voice to Parliament. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.080 Can you explain what's running through your head at this moment. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.160 I'm devastated. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:15.880 I know there's a lot of people that have done 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:17.520 a lot of hard work, you know, not just here 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:21.200 in this room, but across Australia. You know, many thousands 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:22.000 of volunteers. 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.640 Thomas Mayo is an optimist by nature, but on the 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.000 evening of October fourteen last year, his optimism was put 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.360 to the ultimate test. It was the night the referendum 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.519 he campaigned so hard for was so utterly defeated. 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:37.920 So many emotions all at once. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:43.120 It was you know, anger, sadness, and I think the 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.040 words that I said were pretty raw at. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:46.519 The time, you know. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.440 And I was quite disappointed in the result, of course, 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.000 but I was mostly disappointed in the way that one 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.960 side of politics, Peter Dutton, chose to use it as 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.200 a political opportunity. But we have seen in a disgusting 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.600 No campaign, a campaign that has been dishonest, that has 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.960 lied to the Australian people. And I'm sure that'll come 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.919 out in the analysis. I'm sure that history will reflect 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:16.520 poorly on Peter Dutton, Pauline Hansen, all of those that 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:17.240 have opposed this. 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.440 And although the referendums saw Australians vote resemblingly against the Voice, 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.360 Thomas has not given up hope. In fact, he's written 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.760 a new book always was, always will be, outlining a 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.080 vision for what comes next. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.160 I think when it comes to the constitution, how this 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:40.640 country is structured, we can't blame the forefathers of Australia. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.720 We can blame ourselves for not getting it done last year. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.920 It's us, under our watch in our time that we 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.800 rejected average non terrest right island of people that sixty 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.280 five thousand years of history and culture. We rejected that 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.560 as being part of who we are in our founding document. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:07.200 But with this book, I had to think about that 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.440 and let go of any bitterness. You know, I still 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.080 feel an urgent need for change in this country. I 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.519 see the Closing the Gap Report continuing to report failures, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.920 so far from relaxed in that sense, and I hope 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.119 this book can dust off people, give them the hope 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.280 they need to keep backing us up. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.280 Apart from writing the book, were able to get any 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.280 sort of downtime with your family after I mean, I 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.160 remember seeing you on the trail and you hadn't seen 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.320 your family or weren't going to see your family for months. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.400 Did you get time to spend some quality of time 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:43.760 with them? 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.880 Yeah, absolutely I did. I enjoyed going fishing with them 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.120 and going camping. I think one of the most special 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.000 things was being able to get out on the salt 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.200 water again with the family. I love fishing, I love hunting, 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.680 and so do my kids. And we got out to 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.600 our favorite fishing spot, caught some travalis, you know, a 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.639 nice firm white flesh for making numbers. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.079 And in the. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.760 Build up weather very humid, like swimming through the air. 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:18.440 It's so hot like a soup. We made fresh numbers 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.880 and it's lemon and vinegar and chili and raw onion 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.840 and raw fish cooked in the yocidity put in the 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:31.120 ski and it's just such a wonderful thing to eat 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.800 cold in that weather while you're fishing. And I asked 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.760 my little daughter Ruby what her favorite part of the 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.280 fishing trip was, and she said that it was making 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.120 the numbers out at sea. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.440 Beautiful, beautiful. I want to try some of that. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.240 Yeah, it's lovely. You've got to try it, brother, when 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:48.160 you're in Darwin with. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:59.040 Me From Schwarts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.360 In the months leading up to the referendum, like many 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.320 other publicly outspoken supporters of the Voice, Thomas Mayo experienced 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.960 a barrage of attacks from conservative media outlets. He said 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.520 that even though the campaign for Yes lost the vote, 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.119 what they did gain was resilience and a new generation 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:16.279 of Indigenous leaders. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:18.200 Today. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.839 Aboriginal torres Strat Island to activist Thomas Mayo on his 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.800 new book and the Continuing Fight for Justice and Recognition 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:46.640 for First Nations People. It's Wednesday, September four, Thomas. In 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.880 the book, you mentioned that during the campaign, and probably 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.240 before that, really, there were a number of assertions made 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.200 by opponents of the Yes campaign, the first being the 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:02.560 notion of elite Aboriginals and the second being the notion 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.920 that Australia treats all people the same. Can you tell 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.359 us about what you have to say about those two nations? 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.480 Yeah, Look, the argument that we heard throughout the campaign 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.320 that we shouldn't listen to Indigenous leaders because they're elite. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.440 You know, because they might have achieved some academic qualifications, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.039 or they might have risen to leadership in their peak 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.000 health bodies, or they might have advocated for many many 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:33.279 years and then that having been recognized, participated in the 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.240 process towards the hope of achieving the referendum. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:42.159 Said Indigenous people in remote communities were also struggling, but 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.800 didn't say why. I'll tell you why they're struggling. Because 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.960 the elites and activists of the Aboriginal industry like Pearson 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.960 are responsible for it. They are responsible for entrenching a 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.479 disadvantage so their taxpayer grating train. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.479 This says not about United Asia. This is about insulting 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.080 our intelligence and demanding that we succumb to what these 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:05.680 elites want. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.360 Full of Aboriginal dissent continually. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.520 Who are you know, in the elite of this country. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.520 Who are turning around and continually saying, you know, it's 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:18.440 all the fault of the white man. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.080 This is just a nonsense, really, that we should think 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.000 that people that have done so much hard work should 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.200 suddenly be seen as elites and not listened to. I 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.560 don't think there's any other profession where you know, your 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.919 experts should be ignored you know, it's just a ridiculous 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.800 argument and we heard it, so I address that. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.560 And you know, the other one. 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:44.360 Is how people say that all Australians are treated the same, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:50.040 that Indigenous people are equal as it stands today, and 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.440 you need only look at the statistics to understand that 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.720 that isn't true. You know, what should be common sense 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.080 is that Indigenous people are human. You know, we're just 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:04.440 like anyone else in our ability to have full and 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.680 healthy lives. And there must be something wrong. There must 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:13.480 be something inequal if you have such inequal statistics. And 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.040 you know, it's a racist notion in itself to think 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:22.600 that the incarceration rates, the life expectancy gap is somehow 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.440 the fault of Indigenous people and our communities. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.440 Despite the defeat, the Yes campaign garnered six point two 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:38.880 million votes, really, thousands of volunteers to the course. What's 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.400 happened with all that energy? Has there been any planning 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.120 on as to how to tap into that momentum since 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:44.760 the defeat? 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.640 Yeah, I think a lot of people were down in 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.720 the doldrums really, and that's understandable. You know, people put 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.440 their hearts and souls into this, you know, they put 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.120 themselves in front of the most nasty elements of Australia 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.040 that was stirred up by some really nasty people that 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.600 would do that for their own political gain, and I 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.680 refer to them in the book as bad actors. But 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.280 I think people are still asking the question what's next, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.320 and I see some great work being done. There is 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.280 work being done behind the scenes to create the ability 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:23.880 for us to speak with one voice on common matters 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.280 across the country. There's work being done behind the scenes 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.840 on that. Allies for ULARU. You know, a whole lot 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.960 of organizations have had a summit recently in Wollongong talking 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.840 about how they go forward and continue their solidarity. I 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.760 know that many of the social media groups are still together, 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.240 you know, the Yes twenty three social media groups, all 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:52.360 those you know, grassroots created movements, you know, reconciliation groups 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.080 had a swell of membership and they're looking to continue. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.120 So I think they just needed guidance. 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.640 And you know, one of the reasons I believed in 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.160 a Voice so much was because we need that structure 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.760 to give that guidance and to point in the direction 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.520 that we need to go and bring people along with us. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:12.840 And that's very. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.439 Difficult without it, and so I knew it would take 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.640 some time, so put together this book to give that guidance. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.360 After the break. What the future looks like through Thomas 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:37.040 Mayo's eyes. Thomas, we've been talking about the past, particularly 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.840 the referendum result, but as you've indicated, the book is 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.400 just as much about the future as it is about 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.360 the past. So what does that future look like? 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.280 The future looks like justice and recognition for First Nations people, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.600 which is all we were trying to do last year, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.880 and it is what will continue to do. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:57.439 And what gives me. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.360 Hope, brother, is that I know that young people voted yes, 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.440 you know Generation Z. There was an overwhelming yes vote 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:10.400 from young voters. And I think that those young people 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.439 will continue to support this because they've had a completely 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.480 different education to many older Australians and they don't hold 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.440 the prejudices that older Australians have. And so that gives 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.640 me great hope. And I know that we will achieve 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.320 what we tried to do last year. I know we 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.920 will achieve justice and recognition for our people. It's just 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.080 going to take more time. The other thing that gives 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.960 me great hope is that every time we've been trying 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.440 to achieve things equal wages, you know, right to vote, 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.319 land rights, native title. We were always met with the 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.480 answer no, and so you know we will achieve this goal. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.840 I put together a formula about how we get there, 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:57.880 and that formula involves a people's movement, so continuing to 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.119 build that understanding in our community, the familiarity that Australians 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.320 have with us, so that they can more easily discern 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.680 what is a lie or what is truth about us. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:13.160 It involves organizations acting, which many organizations are through their 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.720 reconciliation action plans, and I think that is something that 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:18.480 is on the rise. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:18.840 Still. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.800 Good government policy policies that ensure that there is a 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.160 voice for Indigenous people, that we're consulted before decisions are 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.120 made to give a self determination. Combine those things, though 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.440 with consistency, and we've had each of those three things 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.640 from time to time, but they've never been consistent, and 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:38.640 that's how we get there. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.440 Have you been disappointed by the government seemingly walking away 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.320 from its commitment to a Macarata commission and where does 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:46.960 that leave the idea of truth and treaty. 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:48.600 I have been disappointed by that. 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.480 Minister pre election in twenty twenty two, your Labor Conference 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.240 adopted Macarata as a policy. It was precosted at twenty 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.160 seven point seven million dollars and you even put five 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.679 point eight million dollar in the twenty twenty two budget 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:06.040 to commence work on establishing an independent Macarati Commission to 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.040 oversee processes for agreement making and truth showing. Why is 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.000 this Fabor government now, particularly the Prime Minister, breaking this 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.400 election promise to the Australian people and gas lighting First 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.840 Nations people about this election problem? Thank you, Senator Crop. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.400 I'm disappointed because I think there's a miscalculation here politically 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.960 that somehow standing up for what is right when it 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.320 comes to First Nations people is no longer popular, is 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.520 no longer something that people want, and is somehow going 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:37.680 to lose them votes. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.520 But as I said in the previous response, we learned 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.520 from the referendum and the pain and hardship that that 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.840 created to First Nations people in this country was the 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.520 fact that there was no bipartisan support and we will 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.000 not endeavor down that pathway without the support of the 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.319 opposition the opposite. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.200 I would rather see some backbone from our government to 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:04.480 stand up to the opposite side that you know, confused 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.120 and fear among it last year in the referendum and 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.240 continue to do so. There is so much truth that 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:17.760 is behind standing up against their lies and tactics of intimidation, 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.040 and that's what I would rather see, a continuing vision 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.160 and calling out the bad actors. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.040 And finally, a lot of what needs to be done 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.640 will need to be done by future generations. Do you 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.679 think they're ready to take up the challenge? 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.840 Amongst all of those positive things that did happen last 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.440 year was a whole lot of young people that stepped 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:48.359 up to leadership that stared down those tactics of intimidation 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.040 that you know, I think built some resilience and some 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.040 experience and will be much stronger going forward. So yes, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.400 I think there is a new generation of Indigenous leaders 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.079 that are coming through strong and will take us to. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.160 That destination justice and recognition for First Nations people. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:08.600 Thomas, thank you for your time. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:09.880 Thanks Daniel. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.920 Also in the news as a bus, Mark Burchers says 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.760 his comments about the security threshold for Palestinian visas has 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.360 been misrepresented and distorted. On ABC seven point thirty, Burgess 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.000 reaffirmed that supporting a Palestinian homeland is not in itself 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:53.400 a violent extremist ideology, while material or financial support to 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.000 terrorist organizations such as Hamas is a security problem. It 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.480 was also revealed yesterday that more than three one hundred 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.960 Palestinians applied for onshore protection visas in June and July 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.160 as their initial tourist visas reach their expiry. More than 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.080 forty thousand Palestinians have been killed since October seven, and 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.840 there's been a major breakthrough in stem cell research as 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.080 scientists from the Murdoch Children's Research Institute have grown human 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.760 blood stem cells in a lab for the first time ever. 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.400 When injected into mice, the lab grown blood stem cells 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.920 become functional bone marrow in fifty percent of cases, meaning 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.840 they can carry oxygen and fight infections. Scientists believe this 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.240 new innovation could be the basis for new therapies for 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.640 blood cancering humans, replacing bone marrow destroyed by radiation and 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.600 chemotherapy treatments. I'm Daniel James seven am will be back tomorrow.