1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, novemberfore twenty twenty five. Sixty four percent of 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Australians say they want fewer immigrants to come to this country, 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: and the sentiment is spread across all age groups. As 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: support bleeds from the Coalition to Paul Enhnson's One Nation 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: and Our Big Cities Sea anti immigration rallies. A new 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: news poll shows widespread anxiety about the volume of Labour's intake. 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: That exclusive is live now at the Australian dot Com. 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: Dou Senior heads will roll at Optus over September's fatal 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: triple O outage, Just not yet. That's the takeout from 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: a Senate inquiry into the three deaths, including a baby, 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: that resulted when emergency calls failed after the telco botched 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: a routine network upgrade. Documents provided by Optus to the 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: revealed it not only failed to properly inform the government 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: or the Telecommunications Regulated what was happening, but failed to 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: properly keep its own CEO in the loop. That's today's story. 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: As a CEO, I'm accountable for Optus's failings and I'm 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 2: deeply sorry. 19 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: This is the boss of Optis, Stephen Rue, and he's 20 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: talking to a Senate inquiry into how on earth OPTAs 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: has failed in its obligation to connect people who call 22 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: Triple O two emergency services, particularly on September eighteen, when 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: three people died. 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: We are all deeply sorry. The tragic events, the tragic 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: deaths of people during this outage will stay with us 26 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: as individuals and as a company as we investigate the 27 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: incident and build on our response while progressing a sweeping 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: transformation of Optus. I joined this company a year ago 29 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: because I know it is important for Australia that op 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: TO succeeds. When I arrived, Optus was implementing learnings from 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty two cyber attack and the twenty twenty 32 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: three national outage. 33 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so he's been busy, but Optus has been here before, 34 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: and now rusays the companies identified ten failings that led 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: to this disaster. 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: The outage on September eighteen was not a complex system failure, 37 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: but it was a unique circumstance where Triple zero was 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: down while other cause continued normally. The initial mistake, a 39 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: human error, occurred when the wrong process. Plan was selected 40 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: for a routine firewall upgrade. The selected plan did not 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: divert traffic before locking equipment inside the exchange that routes 42 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: triple zero calls. This is an explanation, not an excuse. 43 00:02:58,919 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: Always said it all. 44 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: Or Jared Lynch is the Australian's Technology editor. 45 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: He said it not that long ago when the Australian 46 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 3: Competition and Consumer Commission sued Option for one hundred million 47 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: dollars in one of Australia's biggest unconscionable conduct cases. This 48 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: is when they know only sold plans to people they 49 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: knew could not afford them. They sold a plan to 50 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: a deaf man, They sold a phone plan to a 51 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: homeless person, they sold a phone plan to a man 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: with dementia. They've been here before. And Stephen Rue's response, 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: and rightly so, is to acknowledge, apologize and then say 54 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: he's working to rebuild public trust. But then this outage happened, 55 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: and he said the same thing. What we need to 56 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 3: see now is tangible action. How much money are they 57 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: investing in capital expenditure to ensure that there isn't another 58 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: triple zero outage? How much money are they spending in 59 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: their network to build resilience, to ensure that people do 60 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: not die again because they could not get help when 61 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: they needed at most. 62 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: The last time an CEO fronted parliamentarians in a crisis, 63 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: she was out the door very shortly afterwards. Stephen Rue's 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: predecessor quit in twenty twenty three after grilling at a 65 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: very similar inquiry when optics and systems failed to prevent 66 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: a giant hack of customers details and a national outage. 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: I think calls that Stephen Rue should be sacked. You 68 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: need to ask what will the end result be, What 69 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 3: will it achieve? Will instigate the change that is required 70 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 3: to ensure that people can rely on Optus when they 71 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: need it most? Probably not? And the reason why is 72 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 3: because there are clear systemic failures within Optus. We saw 73 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: it in twenty twenty two with that big cyber attack 74 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: which resulted in more than nine million Australians having their 75 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 3: personal and sensitive information plunned it by hackers. We saw 76 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: it twelve months later when there was that nationwide outage 77 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: and more than two thousand people could not contact Triple zero. 78 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: We saw it with the Unconscionable Conduct case, and only 79 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 3: in September, we saw it again. The only difference was 80 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 3: three people tragically lost their lives. The question is is 81 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: Sintel Optice's Singaporean owner a fit and proper owner of 82 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: Australian critical infrastructure. That is what the issue is, because 83 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: that will go a long way to ensure the systemic 84 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: failures with him Optus are addressed. Because the buck has 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 3: to stop with the owner. 86 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: Rusay's Optice has now taken serious steps to make sure 87 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: this can never happen again. 88 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: Every network change now requires explicit confirmation that emergency call 89 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: rating is functioning, both before and after the work is completed. 90 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: We've implemented twenty four to seven state by state monitoring 91 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: of triple zero call failures, volumes and failure rates too 92 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: enable faster detection of anomalies. Our contact center procedures have 93 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: been overhauled, including a mandatory escalation process for any customer 94 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: reports of triple zero issues, ensuring they're immediately referred to 95 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: our network's team for investigation. We've introduced daily manual triple 96 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: zero test calls in every state and territory. 97 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 3: I think what we're seeing is what happens when offshoring. 98 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 3: The loss of Australian's sovereignty. What happens when that goes 99 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: horribly wrong. It wasn't that long ago that there used 100 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 3: to be boots on the ground in like every phone 101 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: exchange in every town. Well now there aren't those boots 102 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: on the ground in not only the same town, but 103 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: the same state and same country. I mean this was 104 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 3: the result of engineers in Chennai, India who, in Stephen 105 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: Rue's words, failed to follow the proper processes. And just 106 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 3: to give you an idea, those processes aren't exactly rocket science. 107 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: I was speaking to Tolco soon after Office's outage, and 108 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: one of those processes is for an engineer with boots 109 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 3: on the ground actually pick up the phone when they 110 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: doing a software upgrade and call Triple zero to see 111 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: if it's still working. This isn't high tech stuff. It's 112 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: about having the capability within country to ensure that when 113 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: you do these sorts of software upgrades, and you know 114 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: there are thousands that happened each week heacross Australian telcos 115 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 3: that when you do these upgrades, things don't go wrong 116 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: and people don't lose their lives as a result. 117 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: These inquiries are a search for truth, but they're also 118 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: an opportunity for senators to get their high dudgeon on. 119 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: Senator Sarah Hanson Young, a member of the Greens, turned 120 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: the grilling to OPTUS chair John Arthur after it emerged 121 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: ru wasn't informed by his own employees of the magnitude 122 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: of the problem. 123 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 4: Mister Arthur. 124 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 5: But mister Arthur, you've heard all of this, and this 125 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 5: says to me, your management team is not up to 126 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 5: the job. And there was members of the team who 127 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 5: knew that it was a whole lot worse, that they'd 128 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 5: given misleading information, wrong information to the government. They knew 129 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 5: that completing the welfare checks that two people had died, 130 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 5: and their CEO was totally out of the loop. 131 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Like, how can you. 132 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 5: Sit here as the chairperson of OPTAs and say that 133 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 5: this executive team are doing their job. 134 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 4: Senator, As the chief executive pointed out, there were I 135 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 4: think ten failures here, ten failures And if you're asking 136 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 4: me whether I am alarmed at that, I can assure 137 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: you I am. However, this man was brought into this 138 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: company to make sure we became a company that didn't 139 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 4: have ten failures like that. That's his job. Now he's 140 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 4: partway through this job, and I'm expecting him to finish 141 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: it because I never in my life want to be 142 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 4: in the position I'm in today where I have to 143 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: answer these sorts of questions about a company I'm associated. 144 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 5: With, or is there anyone else on the executive team 145 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 5: who's going to get the sack, because from what I 146 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 5: can see, there's been failure from the corporate communications element 147 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 5: right through to the CEO. 148 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 4: Senator, if you're asking me whether or not there will 149 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: be accountabilities here, and accountabilities not just for junior people, 150 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 4: then I can assure you that there will be. 151 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: Coming up. Why the watchdog says it's not to blame. 152 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: A couple of times during his evidence, Stephen Rue said 153 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: the success of the system was on everyone. 154 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: Telcos must make sure their own networks are reliable. That's 155 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: on each of us. But we must also ensure the 156 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 2: backup systems like camp On, which is a credit. The 157 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: mobile network function that allows a mobile phone to connect 158 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 2: to the Triple zero emergency call service using another carrier's 159 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 2: network when the user's own network is unavailable also works 160 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: for Australians. That's on all of us as an industry, 161 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: including telco's, the device manufacturers, the industry, the regulator and government. 162 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: But the regulators not copying the blame. Narita or Lauchlan, 163 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: chair and Agency head of the Australian Communications in Media Authority, 164 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: was grilled by Sarah Hanson Young. 165 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 5: Octors clearly don't think they have to inform you of 166 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 5: serious outages or the numbers of the numbers don't matter, 167 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 5: and they obviously didn't think that they have an illegal 168 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 5: obligation to inform you of whether there's a deadly result. 169 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 5: And doesn't that say something about how they view you 170 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 5: as a regulator And they clearly don't take you. 171 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 4: Seriously, Senator, that's a question you have to put d 172 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 4: opts not to me. 173 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 5: They're arguing that regulatory requirements they had fulfilled. But because 174 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 5: you didn't pick up the phone and you didn't chase 175 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 5: them up, they've been let off the hook, Senator. 176 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: They won't be let off the hook. They're the police, 177 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 3: they're the regulator. They should have been watching them very 178 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: very closely to ensure that the changes that they said 179 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 3: that they were adopting across their network to ensure such 180 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: an outage did not happen. Again, those changes were actually happening. 181 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: It's not like it was unprecedented. It wasn't that long 182 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 3: ago that we had an outage of similar proportions. The regulator, 183 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 3: the police should have been doing their job, monitoring optors closely. 184 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 3: For them to say well, it's not our fault. Opt 185 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 3: has failed, not us, that just doesn't wash. 186 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: Joe Lynch is The Australian's Technology editor. You can check 187 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: out all our reporting and analysis from Jared reported, Quailing 188 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: Canbra and the team right now at the Australian dot 189 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: Com dot a hu