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Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for being a part of the show. So

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Speaker 1: I just hit record in my neighbor he's about four.

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Speaker 1: It's a very tough time. I think he doncked his

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Speaker 1: head or something next door. Sorry, buddy. It's part of

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Speaker 1: growing up bigger than you were yesterday and you bump

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Speaker 1: into things, and then you get to my age and

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Speaker 1: you become smaller than were yesterday and you stop being

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you listen to Jelena Docketch's episode

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday, but I was just overwhelmed with how incredibly

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Speaker 1: resilient that woman is now, and it got me thinking

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Speaker 1: about the relationship between resilience and vulnerability, because I guess

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Speaker 1: since I started this podcast like ten years ago now,

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Speaker 1: people go, oh, so brave you to be vulnerable with that,

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, but there's a part of it that I

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Speaker 1: don't ever really talk about it, and that's the resilience part,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get to that, but I do

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Speaker 1: need to play some ads. Saw me back up after

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Speaker 1: the break. Hey, thanks for being a part of the show.

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Speaker 1: This is better than yesterday, making it better every episode

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Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen. My name's Osha Ginsburg. I'm glad you're here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been here in twenty thirteen. I've been having conversations

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Speaker 1: about all kinds of stuff, including what it's like to

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Speaker 1: live with a different brain, which I have, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not alone. A lot of people have different brains. And

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Speaker 1: at one point in this podcast, pretty early on, I

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Speaker 1: just opened the mic and start talking about what it

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Speaker 1: was like and how I was getting through the day

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Speaker 1: with this brain that I got, either the bits that

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Speaker 1: I got born with or the bits that I did

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Speaker 1: my best to destroy through the dragon alcohol use. I'm

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Speaker 1: now sober, but I live with some pretty interesting pathways

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Speaker 1: in my head that have been caused by that aforementioned abuse.

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Speaker 1: But that's okay. There is growth in stress responses, which

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Speaker 1: is good. That's what I kind of wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about early on when I started this podcast. Some of

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Speaker 1: the earlier episodes, when I started very talking about things,

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Speaker 1: people would say, geez, god on you being so vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to be so vulnerable. And certainly when

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Speaker 1: I put the book out, that was a big thing

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Speaker 1: that people would always say, It's like, it's so nice

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Speaker 1: to see a man being vulnerable. And the part I

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Speaker 1: never really put together, and it was Elaina coming in

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Speaker 1: here the other day. That really kind of sat in

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Speaker 1: my head. I'm sitting in the sawner and all kind

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Speaker 1: of pulled together. Vulnerability without resilience is not a good thing.

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Speaker 1: And on the other side of that, resilience without vulnerability

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Speaker 1: is also not a good thing. One means you're wide

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Speaker 1: open and perilous danger of calamity at any moment because

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Speaker 1: you have no resilience. Think about if you're amino compromised,

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Speaker 1: all right, and someone on the bus next to you

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Speaker 1: is coughing all over the place, could be COVID. Who knows.

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Speaker 1: If you have no immune response, you're enormously vulnerable. Yet

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Speaker 1: on the other side, if you're super resilient but you

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Speaker 1: have no vulnerability your relationships, your personality, your creativity, your

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Speaker 1: ability to actually speak to other people without thinking everyone's

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Speaker 1: going to jump down your throat and try to take

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Speaker 1: you out and steal your stuff, that's no way to

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Speaker 1: live either, working on both. I don't know how Elena

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Speaker 1: did it, but I guess the first step for me

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Speaker 1: would be there was the vulnerability of asking for help,

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Speaker 1: certainly around my drinking and then later on when I

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Speaker 1: got unwell mentally. But then a big part of getting

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Speaker 1: healthy was building and maintaining my resilience because I guess

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Speaker 1: vulnerability and resilience are kind of two sides of the

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Speaker 1: same piece of force cap. You know, vulnerability is how

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Speaker 1: susceptible you are to danger, palm, stress, damage, and resilience

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Speaker 1: is the capacity I guess to recover from or deal

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Speaker 1: with that harm, stress, or damage. Resilience, however, is something

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Speaker 1: that we can work on and we can develop, and

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Speaker 1: we can grow. We can do things like have good

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Speaker 1: relationships people around us, working on those, working on the

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Speaker 1: reasons that relationships might not be good, and then getting

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Speaker 1: those good relationships around us, and having the active reframing

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Speaker 1: mode in our brain that changes our self perception from

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Speaker 1: a person who could not cope to a person who

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Speaker 1: will figure out how to cope, and indeed, working on

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Speaker 1: those coping skills and working on plans. I always say

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Speaker 1: the antidote panic is a plan because when that happens,

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Speaker 1: when the inevitable happens, because nobody goes through life unharmed.

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Speaker 1: When the inevitable stress or danger or damage or fear

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Speaker 1: or whatever shows up, if you're vulnerable to any of

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Speaker 1: those things, it will knock you out. It might destroy

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Speaker 1: your relationships could destroy your career. It's done all that

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Speaker 1: to me in different ways. But if you've been working

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Speaker 1: on that resilience, when the inevitable does happen, not only

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Speaker 1: will you be able to cope with it, but you

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Speaker 1: will also get to have or just think it is extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: And I'm definitely a living embodyment of it is. And

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Speaker 1: I could tell I'm just going to say the way

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Speaker 1: I can see Elena sitting in my studio the other day,

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Speaker 1: as far as I can see from externally, she is this.

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Speaker 1: So there's such a thing as post traumatic growth. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this post traumatic stress disorder, but this post traumatic growth,

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Speaker 1: and that is an incredible gift, despite how terrible things

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Speaker 1: might have been and how horrible things might have happened

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Speaker 1: to you or me. So there is that opportunity to

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Speaker 1: grow and learn and develop and become even more resilient

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Speaker 1: and develop stronger ways of coping with things and a

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Speaker 1: more I guess ingrained sense of personal strength. I will

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Speaker 1: cope no matter what happens. I'll be able to handle this.

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Speaker 1: And that's really really really important because you can't have

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Speaker 1: you really can't have one without the other. Think about

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Speaker 1: you know, with your savings for example. And it's a

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Speaker 1: difficult thing to talk about because nobody's got any but

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Speaker 1: if you're going paycheck to paycheck, how financially resilient are you? Not? Very?

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Speaker 1: And I remember this when I was early on working

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Speaker 1: in radio and the alt maator in my car, when

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Speaker 1: it was eight hundred bucks. Without my car, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: get to work. Without work, I couldn't make money. I

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Speaker 1: was fucked. It took all of my money and I

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Speaker 1: don't know what I did until payday, it was about

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Speaker 1: ten days later, but it was no good. However, if

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Speaker 1: you have, like I don't know, a couple of grand

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred bucks sitting somewhere in a credit union somewhere

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Speaker 1: that you don't have the card for, you know that

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Speaker 1: you are resilient to unpredictable financial stresses. With your health,

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Speaker 1: if you're drinking and using and smoking all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, you go through this really stressful

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Speaker 1: period at work, you reckon you're going to cut a cold,

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Speaker 1: you reckon you're going to break out in cold soores, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your bloody will. However, if you're looking after your health,

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Speaker 1: if you're eating right, you're sleeping right, you're moving your body.

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Speaker 1: You're training right, then when someone does sneeze on you, you

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Speaker 1: might have a bit of a lurgie for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days, but you won't be out of action, you

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Speaker 1: won't be able to you're not work, you know. Depending

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Speaker 1: if it's really hard core, you know you will, but

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like, you won't be absolutely

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Speaker 1: knocked out by it, And that's really really important. As

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Speaker 1: I said earlier, resilience involves also planning order, and I

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Speaker 1: are in that situation right now. We as I mentioned

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back, my work situation has shifted

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, but we have been planning for this

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Speaker 1: over a year now, year and a half even, and

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Speaker 1: so we did not have confirmation that work was moving around,

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Speaker 1: but we were resilient to that news because we had

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Speaker 1: planned for it. We would put everything in place. So

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Speaker 1: when that news came through, and we got that news

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Speaker 1: confirmed a couple months back, no problem. We'll just flick

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Speaker 1: a switch and now we're here. There's been times in

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Speaker 1: my life where a bit not resilient at all and

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Speaker 1: it sets off a spiral downward spiral, sorry Trender Restner,

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Speaker 1: that can really really mess you up. But it can

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Speaker 1: be very very hard to come back from. But how

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Speaker 1: do you build up that resilience? I mentioned a few

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Speaker 1: things earlier, but I want to talk about a few more.

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Speaker 1: I'll do that after the break. Thanks being a part

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Speaker 1: of the podcast. Ohtually here, I've just reflecting against the

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Speaker 1: Elana dock Each was here on Wednesday, and she's an

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Speaker 1: incredible person. After what she's been through to be who

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Speaker 1: she is now is just remarkable. And it kind of

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Speaker 1: got me thinking in the background about the relationship between

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Speaker 1: vulnerability and resilience because people had said, oh, it's good

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Speaker 1: on you for being so vulner and vulnerability is really

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Speaker 1: really important, especially emotional vulnerability, but it is vital that

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Speaker 1: you work on your resilience at the same time. If

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Speaker 1: you're prepared to be vulnerable, then you have to know

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Speaker 1: that you have the resilience to deal with whatever that

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Speaker 1: act of vulnerability might bring into your day. All Right,

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Speaker 1: it takes vulnerability to fall in love with someone. But

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Speaker 1: if they say, actually, no, I don't love you that much,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have the resilience to handle that to

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Speaker 1: know that, ah man, that sucks. That hurts, That really hurts.

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Speaker 1: But I know I'll be okay. And I know there's

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Speaker 1: other people out there. I might take a little time

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Speaker 1: figure out what it was about what happened between us

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Speaker 1: that didn't work out, But yeah, I know, I'll be okay.

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Speaker 1: Like that is someone who's emotionally resilient versus, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: not that nty you, I don't want to go on

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Speaker 1: another date? Fuck you? How dare you? I fucking aha?

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Speaker 1: You know, And then writing shit about them or talking

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Speaker 1: shit about them to their friends or acting out or

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Speaker 1: doing whatever like that is not a resilient person. That

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Speaker 1: is not good for anybody at all. Vulnerability is imperative

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Speaker 1: in having a deep and loving relationship with another human being.

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Speaker 1: Yet if you don't have the resilience to know that

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Speaker 1: even if this person and I hope they never do,

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Speaker 1: but even if this person is no longer here for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason they may want to leave or you know,

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Speaker 1: something will happen to them. It will be terrible, but

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Speaker 1: I'll be okay. That will really change how you are

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Speaker 1: inside that relationship. And it's super, super super important, and

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Speaker 1: that's something you can actually work on. It starts with sleep,

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Speaker 1: getting decent sleep, eating well balanced foods. To start with,

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Speaker 1: just preparing your own food all right if you can,

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Speaker 1: if you have the time, start with that. You won't

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Speaker 1: reach for the hydrogenated partmer well when you're making a

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Speaker 1: stirf ry. If you cook your own food, try to

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Speaker 1: go for a walk, Get like twenty minutes of walking

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Speaker 1: every day if you can, thirty if you can. That's

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Speaker 1: about it. Notice shit, I've talked about this before. Feed

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Speaker 1: in your socks, figure out some mindfulness. Just set a

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Speaker 1: time on your phone and count the things you can hear.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about all kinds of things, but this source

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Speaker 1: suff is really important. As far as working on your

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Speaker 1: resilience with relationships, it's important. You've got to understand, certainly,

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Speaker 1: as you get older, you've got to put more effort

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Speaker 1: into nurturing those relationships with your friends, with your family,

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Speaker 1: that people at work, you want to have good work relationships.

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Speaker 1: Know when to seek help, Know when it is that

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Speaker 1: you need a friend's help, when you need a professional help.

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Speaker 1: Understand this stuff. When you think about those close relationships,

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Speaker 1: it's important to think about are these healthy relationships? Because

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Speaker 1: unhealthy relationships, they will draw down on your ability to

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Speaker 1: be resilient. In fact, they will increase your vulnerability. And

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Speaker 1: then do something that's not for you. Do something that's

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Speaker 1: not about you. Be of service to other people. That's

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Speaker 1: really really important. Help people out, say yes to stuff

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Speaker 1: when things change, be okay with it, you know. Just

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Speaker 1: practice really small, practice really really small, like practice getting

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable with things not going your way, practice with being

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Speaker 1: okay with red light. That's it can be that small. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's red light practice. It's someone doing sixty five and

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Speaker 1: an eighty zone in front of you, and that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Practice being okay with cyclists in front of you. There

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Speaker 1: was a guy who nearly killed me this morning on

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Speaker 1: the road, and I did some deep breathing before I

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Speaker 1: caught up to him the stop sign, and I said

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Speaker 1: to him some choice words. Just please, I'm sorry I

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Speaker 1: made you late. Eight seconds of your time is not

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Speaker 1: worth my life. Please be careful. Please don't do that again.

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Speaker 1: To say that to him. Man, But start really really small,

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Speaker 1: when tiny little things don't go your way, and start

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Speaker 1: with mild annoyances. People not waving their hand when they're

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Speaker 1: at the pedestrian crossing, the thing you wanted to shoot

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Speaker 1: at the supermarket not being there, you're trolley having a

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Speaker 1: bun wheel finding the car space at the shopping center

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Speaker 1: miles from where you want it to be. Be cool

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Speaker 1: with it. Things that used to shit you, small things

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Speaker 1: that really annoy you. Just practice being okay with it. Game, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I can cope with this. Just I can cope with

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Speaker 1: this really small, really small stuff. You're spilled a bit

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Speaker 1: of milkmaking your tea. Ah, I can cope with that,

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Speaker 1: rather than I can cope with that. Start small, start

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Speaker 1: real small. But that includes you know, if you do

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Speaker 1: go ah, hang on, reset ah, I can cope with this,

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Speaker 1: have a bit of self compassion. Understand that you're figuring

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Speaker 1: out how to do something new. Another part of getting

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Speaker 1: resilient is is down regulating breathing so important. Just being

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Speaker 1: aware of your breaths. Box breaths super super useful. If

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Speaker 1: it's good enough for the Navy seals, it's good enough

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Speaker 1: for me. Four in, hold your breath, four out, hold

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Speaker 1: your breath for four. All right, So it's like a box.

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Speaker 1: Breathe in for four, hold for four, out for four,

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Speaker 1: hold for four. You can go up or down to

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Speaker 1: the numbers. Also, the pole evagel breathing, which I love.

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Speaker 1: I do it all the time. Three in, six out,

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Speaker 1: that's the one I do when I'm on the motorbike,

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Speaker 1: but if I'm not driving, or if I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: the sword and I'm trying to be a few more minutes,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard. Five in, ten out. That's what I

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Speaker 1: like to do, and that what that stimulates your vegas nerve,

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Speaker 1: which is really really cool. And the other part of

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Speaker 1: a lot of this is just get into action, get

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Speaker 1: towards the direction of the kind of person the resilience

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Speaker 1: that you want to have. And it might look like

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Speaker 1: telling someone I love you, but that's how it wants

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Speaker 1: to be in the end. It can start with I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be okay if they don't text me back

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Speaker 1: straight away. I'm going to be okay if they don't

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Speaker 1: text me back within five minutes, and then ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: and then half an hour and an hour and then whatever.

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Speaker 1: These are all tiny little things, you know what you

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Speaker 1: need to get more resilient. App There's probably some things

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Speaker 1: you're awesome at. You've probably got some blind spots. I do,

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Speaker 1: two we all do. But working on your resilience is

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Speaker 1: so so important. As I said, without resilience, vulnerability is

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Speaker 1: not a good thing. But without vulnerability and just resilience

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Speaker 1: there's nothing like you go through life just frightened of everything,

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Speaker 1: and it's also nowhere to be. It's this beautiful mix

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Speaker 1: of the two things, holding wine of equal weight in

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Speaker 1: each hand, like a beautifully balanced tray of fifty cent

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Speaker 1: drinks at Hot Gossip nightclub in Brisbane in eighty nine

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Speaker 1: or weather I can't remember a long time ago. They

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Speaker 1: don't do fifty cent drinks anymore, and they look, let's

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Speaker 1: be honest, there they weren't fifty mil shots. H okay eh.

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Speaker 1: I was also fifteen, but that's for another time. If

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Speaker 1: only I'd had resilience at the time, I would not

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Speaker 1: even trying to make up for my lack of resilience

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Speaker 1: with alcohol. Because if there's one thing I can tell

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Speaker 1: you that will not add resilience to your life, even

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Speaker 1: though it thinks it will, it is drinking and music

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Speaker 1: already kind of avoidant behavior, right, it has the idea

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Speaker 1: that will make you more resilient. Oh, get a couple

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Speaker 1: of beers in, then I can go and face this

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Speaker 1: crowd of family who love me. Nah. It might work

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Speaker 1: for a second, might work for a bit, but ultimately

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Speaker 1: it just makes you more vulnerable. You know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about and if you never had that experience, you're lucky.

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Speaker 1: But I'm here to tell you it's a fallacy. So

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Speaker 1: there it is. How's your resilience, how's your vulnerability? You

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Speaker 1: can't have one without the other. What are you doing

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Speaker 1: to work on them both? Let me know? Links here

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. See you Monday. This episode was

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Andy Maher on audio post production,

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Speaker 1: mikey Ward on video post production, Toehider on the music.

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Speaker 1: My producer is Brie Steel. My executive function assistant is

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Speaker 1: Monica Chapman. And if you want to hear every episode

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Speaker 1: we've ever done, going back to twenty thirteen, get on

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Speaker 1: the mail list, get in touch with me, leave a voicemail.

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Speaker 1: You can do it all right now at Oshiginsberg dot

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Speaker 1: com