1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,119 Speaker 1: I get a you bloody champions. It's the you project, 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook and Brendon. I'm going to go. Brendan's 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: probably a probably a vow. Brendan Andrew Brennan, Andrew what cains? 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: He'll tell us in a minute if I fucked that up. 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure I did. What are the odds? Tiffy? 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: You're good, I'm very good. Thanks. Happy Friday, Oh. 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: Happy Friday to you. You're still looking glamorous. What have 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: you done? You keep saying you haven't done anything? A 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: bit of bloody. It's Loncesston's blue ice eyeliner. 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 3: Just been putting a grown up jumper on over my 11 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: muscletop for the You know, I'm being a grown up. 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: We can't recognize you when you're not in a crop top. 13 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: What's the difference between a crop top and a boob 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: tube is. 15 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 3: That boobtube doesn't have straps on the arms. Boobtube just 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 3: goes around under your armpits with no straps. 17 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: There you go. Do they still exist? 18 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 4: Am I? 19 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Is that even a term that we're allowed to use 20 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four? I'll just point out I didn't 21 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: invent the term, so don't you yell at me. 22 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: You're asking them wrong person. 23 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: I've been wearing blokes muscletops for the last five or 24 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 3: six years straight. 25 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: Well, there's I could say so many things. Hi, Brendan, 26 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: how are you? 27 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 4: I'm good, Thanks, Craig, I'm I'm absolutely fine, enjoying my 28 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 4: Friday afternoon. 29 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Well, gid you up. Thanks for joining us on the 30 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: new project. So what's the middle name? 31 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 4: Son? 32 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: Does it start with a vow? Let me out ask 33 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: that first. 34 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 4: Well, I've got two and yeah, they're very Catholic names. 35 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 4: So one is Michael, you know, maybe the ultimate Mick name. 36 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 4: Of course, I've also got Francis, which they're all very Catholic. 37 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: Bro's middle names. Francis. 38 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: Oh really, Well my mum's brother's name was Francis rip 39 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: uncle Frank. And is that is that? Because the second 40 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: of those two names is a confirmation name. 41 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: Michael is the confirmation name. 42 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you know what that is? 43 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 4: Tiff? 44 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: Do you know what a confirmation name is? 45 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 5: A name? 46 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: But I was confirmed. I don't really pay attention to 47 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: the whole thing though. 48 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a Catholic church? How did 49 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: I not know this? Were you? 50 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 4: Like? 51 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Are you the worst Catholic in the history of Catholics. 52 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: Second to you, bro, Why did you know every word 53 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 3: of the Bible doesn't mean you're good Catholic? 54 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: No, I know that I'm a shit Catholic. In fact, 55 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: what I loved I ripped something off Brendan's site. I 56 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: can't find it now, but it was something like Gandhi 57 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: said something like I like your Christ, but not your Christians. 58 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: Your Christians are nothing like your Christ. Did I get 59 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: that somewhat right? Brendan, Yeah, it's close. That's buried a 60 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: way somewhere rather in the socials page. But yeah, you're close. Yeah, yeah, 61 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: Well did you go to Sorry Brendan, this should really 62 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: be about you, but let me just catch up on 63 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: ten years of tiff that did you go to Catholic schools? 64 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: I went to a Catholic primary school. 65 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: Did you pray to Sweet Baby Jesus? 66 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: Yeah I did. Yeah, we walk down to the chap. 67 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: Wow, I did not know anyway, enough about enough about 68 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: our history. Let's talk to our guests, Brenda. Did you 69 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: only go to Catholic schools as well? Or did you 70 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: actually well, you were adopted, so mate, were your parents 71 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: even Catholic? Was your family Catholic. 72 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So in the sixties, so 73 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 4: I was born and adopted in sixty one, the church 74 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 4: went to huge pains to ensure all of the children, 75 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 4: all of the Catholic children born went to Catholic families, 76 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 4: right right, And so you know, the families that didn't 77 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 4: have kids, they were very very keen to I'm sure 78 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 4: that they were going to continue the community and to 79 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: adopt them into childless families. And particularly it's like me 80 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 4: that had the background that I had, so that the 81 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 4: birth parents that I had always ended up with Catholic 82 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 4: adopt for parents. 83 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: Well, and was that I mean, obviously not common, but 84 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: obviously not completely rare, because you say, when people who 85 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: came from situations like you, So you're not Robinson Crusoe in. 86 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 4: This No, there's well, depending on who you believe, there 87 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: are no firm statistics, but it's been estimated that there's 88 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: well over one hundred thousand children who have been fathered 89 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 4: by Catholic priests. 90 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I'm writing them down. One hundred thousand. 91 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: That is well, obviously, I mean, people have already read 92 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: the intro and the synopsis of this show by the 93 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: time they're hearing us, So they're going to know that 94 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: your dad was a priest, or your biological father was 95 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: a priest, and your biological mother was a nun. I 96 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: bet that's a great conversation starter at dinners. 97 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 6: Well, it makes it never good, no, no, no, it 98 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 6: It is a sort of a microdrop moment. But it's 99 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 6: probably the only advantage is you know your elevate a 100 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 6: pitch when you're talking to publishers. 101 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure that's going to get a few doors 102 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: open and a few years open when you decided to. 103 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: So your book is called Tell No One. When did 104 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: you come up with the idea to, you know, kind 105 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: of put your story, your life into something that we 106 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: could all read and connect with. 107 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 4: I've always been a journaler, so I've always written extensively 108 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 4: because my story is very complicated, and what is contained 109 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: in the book, or the majority of it, at least 110 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 4: covers thirty years. So I at nearly thirty years of age, 111 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 4: I discovered the identity of my mother when I got 112 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 4: my original birth certificate, and it took me another nearly 113 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 4: thirty years to find out who my birth father was. 114 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 4: And there are all sorts of issues that obstacles that 115 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 4: occurred in my path that I needed clear to find 116 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 4: out that answer. I journaled as much as anything else, 117 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 4: to record the things that happened, but equally to try 118 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 4: and work out how I felt about it, you know, 119 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: to unpack the complexities of the journey I was taking. 120 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: When I found out my father was a Catholic priest, 121 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 4: so that was two thousand and eighteen, I ended up 122 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: quitting my job and thought I would spend twelve months 123 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 4: working out who this man was because he had a 124 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 4: very larger he had a huge life, and I wanted 125 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 4: to research him, record it as much as anything else 126 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 4: for my kids. I was job where I've been there 127 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 4: for thirteen and a half years. I was over it. 128 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 4: It was time to move on. I could afford to 129 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: take a year off work, and the more I discovered 130 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 4: and learned about my family, and more so the more 131 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 4: I discovered about the children of priests, the more research 132 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 4: that led to, and the more angry I became, and 133 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 4: the more determined I became to turn what I was 134 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 4: recording into a book to make public the reality of 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 4: what the Catholic Church has done in silencing the children 136 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 4: of prests, and indeed our mothers. 137 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: Can I say, and I'm not blowing smoke. Brilliant book, 138 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: so everyone should go and buy that. I bought it 139 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: on audible after I first met Brendan, so good tell no. 140 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: One is the name of the book. Brendan Watkins is 141 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: the author. So I mean, I'm sure we could do 142 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: an hour just on what the Catholic Church has done 143 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: and not done. But give us a snapshot, just open 144 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: the door a little bit in kind of enlightening us 145 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: as to what the Catholic Church's response reaction is to 146 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, all of these kids. 147 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 4: Well, look, I suppose to encapsulate the size of the issue. 148 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 4: The church, you know today has something like four hundred 149 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: thousand Catholic priests, and the church is very foggy around 150 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 4: its definition of celibacy. And in surveys that have been 151 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 4: done and Sipe is the most commonly quoted, half the 152 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 4: Catholic priests are not celibate. And when you think about 153 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 4: the Church's. 154 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: View around what's hang on? Really yeah half. 155 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 4: So it goes back to, you know, the Church has 156 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 4: put vasiline over the lens of what the definition of 157 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 4: celibacy is and it's not really all that old. The 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 4: notion of the introduction of celibacy. It's only three or 159 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 4: four hundred years old. The church was financially damaged by 160 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 4: priests having children and their estate ending up in the 161 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 4: hands of their family and not the church. Church introduced 162 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 4: in the eleventh century are rules about preventing married men 163 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 4: becoming priests, right, It didn't say you can't have sex, 164 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 4: and so surveys of priests still received a foggy notion 165 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 4: about what celibacy means. And in recent years surveys of 166 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 4: priests have found that anonymously conducted that half of them 167 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 4: is still having sex of one sort or another. 168 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: That is, that is, But I mean the Bible talks 169 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: about sex outside of marriage pretty clear, and lolls isn't 170 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: based on the Bible, isn't It isn't that isn't it 171 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: considered a sin within the church? Yeah? 172 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 4: Indeed, And so I suppose in many ways, the press 173 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 4: that have had children this is an extension of the 174 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 4: abuse of minus in many ways. So it's a part 175 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: of that story. So I think everyone's been aware. In Australia, 176 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: the Royal Commission and largely what's happened is price have 177 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 4: fathered children and as has happened with child abuse. The 178 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 4: priest very often, if this becomes known, is moved on 179 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: to another parish or another state or even another country, 180 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 4: and he has no recognition of the child. Very often 181 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 4: the women are honorable, very often. So you know, I 182 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: know a huge number of children of priest personally and 183 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 4: anecdotally through different groups, and the stereotype of my mother 184 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: is the most common. So usually they're vulnerable single women. 185 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 4: They're believers, so they're parishioners, and very often are very devout. Yes, 186 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 4: and quite often they're the housekeeper or a woman that's 187 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: come to the priest and she's been experiencing domestic violence 188 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 4: or the husband's being killed, or the husband's run off. 189 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 4: They're extremely vulnerable to spiritual abuse and in quite a 190 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 4: number of cases physical abuse. Wow. So she becomes pregnant, 191 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: the priest moves on and the church will more often 192 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 4: than not deny, but in most cases might put a 193 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 4: roof over the head of the woman. In extreme cases, 194 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 4: they might reward her with some money, essentially to buy 195 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 4: her silence, but that's always in exchange, or nearly always 196 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 4: in exchange for a confidentiality ran wow. In twenty fourteen, 197 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 4: the United Nation United Nations under the Rights of the 198 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 4: Child Investigation recommended to the Vatican that it has to 199 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 4: stop silencing the children of priests. This is a huge 200 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 4: international phenomena and the Church has been incredibly successful in 201 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 4: silencing the mothers and the children. Wow. 202 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: So, I mean this is an in your opinion question. 203 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 4: This is not. 204 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: An analytical or a database question. In your opinion. Are 205 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: these priests more opportunists or predators, I'm sure or something else? 206 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: Maybe Yeah, I'm. 207 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 4: Sure every case is unique, that they're all different, but 208 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 4: they're Again, there aren't firm stats on this, but generally speaking, 209 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 4: the priests that have had children very often have other children, 210 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: and so it's not a once off, you know what 211 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 4: I'm talking about. And the numbers I spoke about the 212 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 4: priests that remain priests and deny recognition of their child. 213 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 4: There are instances, and they're quite rare of the priest 214 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 4: you know, having you know, the thorn Bird's moment. You know, 215 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 4: it's a love story. And in some of those instances 216 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 4: they leave the priesthood and they marry the woman and 217 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 4: they have the family. That's the rarity. That's not the 218 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 4: that's not the story that I'm talking about. There are 219 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 4: well over one hundred thousand people who have pessentially been 220 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 4: gagged by the church because the priests won't recognize their child. 221 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 4: And in many cases, you know, all the sort of 222 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 4: foundation documents, birth certificates, details about the press, access to 223 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 4: the priest's estate are all denied by the church. 224 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: Have you had any blowback, either by the church or 225 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: people within the church. There's probably a double question. I 226 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: probably should have said how much? 227 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 5: Well, not really, not really officially, no, not really. Yeah, 228 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 5: there's been a huge way of. 229 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: Response from mainly parishioners and mainly people in a similar 230 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: vote to me. Wow, But look, officially no. I was 231 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 4: with Alan and Nunwen. The book is published by Alan 232 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 4: and so we had a lot of high level barristers 233 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 4: working on my book to ensure that everything was able 234 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 4: to be verified. But now look, the church, you know, 235 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: treated me like it does every other child of a 236 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 4: priest and mother that comes forward. Basically, they pull down 237 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: the shutters and you hear nothing. 238 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: And what can you? What can you or what are 239 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: you comfortable to tell us Brennan about your biological mother 240 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: and father that you can I know, we can read 241 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: the book. Don't forget everybody read the book. Tell no one. 242 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 4: Sure. Well, most importantly, I feel a great sympathy for 243 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: my mother. I believe my mother was a victim of 244 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 4: my father, even though they spent many, many years of 245 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 4: their lives together and she actually nursed him for the 246 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 4: last eight or ten years of his life. They lived 247 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 4: together under the same roof Wow. However, when they met, 248 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 4: there was a thirty year age gap when she was 249 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 4: around fifteen and he was a much older man, and 250 00:15:52,240 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 4: she was a vulnerable girl. And that's a stereotype. And 251 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 4: he was the man, the spiritual leader. He was the 252 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 4: hands and feet of God on earth. You can't say 253 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 4: no to that if you are a vulnerable young woman, 254 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 4: and that's the stereotopes. So that's the most important thing 255 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 4: to remember. And you know, I believe my mother has 256 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: not treated me well at all in the last thirty years, 257 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 4: and she is still alive. But I absolutely understand it 258 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 4: and empathize with her response. So, long story short, I 259 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 4: got access to my birth certificate when I was nearly 260 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 4: thirty because Kate, my partner, and I were about to 261 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 4: have a family. Our story was a little complicated because 262 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 4: I was always curious. I always wanted to know who 263 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: my birth parents were. I have an adopted brother, he's 264 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 4: a little older, we're super close, and he wanted nothing 265 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 4: to do with it, had no interest. He thought it 266 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 4: was bizarre that I was so keen to know these things. 267 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 4: And I spent the last thirty years, you know, banging 268 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 4: my head against a brick wall with no success, and 269 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 4: he just keeps standing back, shaking his head. So I 270 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 4: got my birth certificate, and I thought it had additional 271 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 4: justification to find out who my birth parents were because 272 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 4: Kate had a health issue called malignant hyperperrexia, which essentially 273 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 4: means sure you can't have anesthetics, and it had killed 274 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 4: a number of people within her family. And as we're 275 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 4: about to have kids, I'm thinking, well, hang on, I 276 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 4: know nothing about what's in my lurking in my DNA soup. 277 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 4: What are the things that our kids might be vulnerable to? 278 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: And you know, we were making plans how she was 279 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 4: going to have anesthetic. It was needed, you know, when 280 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 4: the birth occurred, and all those sorts of things, and 281 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 4: when you have kids, it just makes you think about genetics. 282 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 4: So I got my birth certificate. The Catholic Church arranged 283 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 4: the adoption, and they sat me down. I looked at 284 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 4: my mother's name, and it wasn't the stereotype that I expected. Normally, 285 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 4: it's a teenager in those days, and passion had got 286 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 4: the better of them and they were too young to 287 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 4: have a child, and the babies put up for adoption. 288 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 4: This was the woman who was twenty seven. Wow, she 289 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 4: didn't have an Anglo name. I thought she'd have an 290 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 4: Anglo name like ours, and it was something odd. She 291 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 4: was in South Australia. So I desperately wanted to know more. 292 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 4: And for all the reasons such as said, I really 293 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 4: wanted to at least find out the biological history healthy shies. 294 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 4: Cutting to the chase. They sat me down a few 295 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 4: weeks later. They insisted, or not insisted. They were very 296 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 4: persuasive in having me consent to then make contact with 297 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 4: her on my behalf. And they sat me down and said, 298 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 4: we're spoken to Maggie, your mother, and you'll never see her, 299 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 4: you'll never talk to her, you'll never meet her. You 300 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 4: need to go home and forget about it forever. And 301 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 4: you know that's that's a blow that you know is 302 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 4: reverberated through me for decades. And I didn't realize quite 303 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 4: at the time the significance of it, and I tried 304 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: to but I couldn't. And the further we went down 305 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 4: the path of you know, getting pregnant and having kids, 306 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 4: I couldn't let go of it. And again it's you know, 307 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 4: some chapters in the book. But Kate, we were doing sleuthing, 308 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 4: and so it was before the Year of Google. We 309 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: were doing some sleuthing and retraced a sister in law 310 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 4: who was in South Australia, and Kate rang the sister 311 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 4: in law, making out she was, you know, a long 312 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 4: lost friend. And I had a conversation with his sister 313 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 4: in law and said, I'm trying to track down Maggie 314 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 4: Beckett and this is a pseudonym. That's not everyone. And 315 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 4: the woman replied, oh, you mean Maggie vennun m wow, 316 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, the penny dropped. Ah, that's 317 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 4: why she can't see me. That's why she won't expect 318 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 4: to me. It made sense, and it was just so 319 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 4: bizarre because I was raised him, you know, an indoctrination 320 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 4: a school you know, not at all dissimilar to yours. Correct, 321 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 4: And so I sort of let it go for some 322 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 4: period of time, and eventually a year or two later 323 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 4: wrote to her and she replied, and there was essentially 324 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 4: thirty years of me discovering that she wasn't actually a 325 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 4: nun when I was conceived or born, which is a 326 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 4: very pertinent point to her. And she's still alive, and 327 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 4: she finds that offensive that people might think that's the case, 328 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 4: which I totally understand. She had been in an order, 329 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 4: she had joined but not completed her term in the 330 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 4: convent she left was outside of the convent. For my 331 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 4: estimation is around three years I was conceived, born, and 332 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 4: to pay her penance to atone she joined another convent 333 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 4: and stayed for twenty five years, and very close to 334 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 4: the period of her leaving that convent, twenty five years later. 335 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 4: I made contact around nineteen ninety, so, just when she 336 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 4: thought she'd done her penance, she'd paid the price, I 337 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 4: show up and little did I know that when I 338 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 4: made contact, she was living with my birth father. She 339 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 4: was living with father, Vincent Shield, and for thirty years 340 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 4: I tried to discover his identity and was told many 341 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 4: different stories. I was told it was a short relationship, 342 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 4: it was a long relationship. It was a man who 343 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 4: had a family, a man that she rang a number 344 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 4: of times until he had his phone disconnected, and eventually, 345 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 4: many years after first contact, she told me, no, well 346 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 4: I told you his name. I don't know why you 347 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 4: keep nagging about his name's Paul Hayes. So I hired 348 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 4: a private detective to run aroun around Sydney trying to 349 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 4: find this Paul Haze where she used to live with 350 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 4: my father, and spent a whole lot of money trying 351 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 4: to find him. And eventually he came back and said, look, 352 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 4: I've done a lot of these cases adoptions. I know 353 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 4: a lot about this that I spoke to just about 354 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 4: every Paul has that is in the age that could 355 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 4: be your father. He doesn't exist. It's invented. I went 356 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 4: back to my birth mother and her response is, well, 357 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 4: you were lied to, and so as I and agreed, 358 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 4: So she made out it it invented the name when 359 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 4: she knew him. But of course he was still alive 360 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 4: and they were still living together. 361 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: In so that was thirty plus years ago. And so 362 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: you and your mum have never really connected, No. 363 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 4: It's all yeah, it's always been very arms length. And 364 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 4: look we're mainly communicated by a letter, and in those 365 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 4: thirty years it might only be six or eight letters. 366 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 4: We've met face to face. She's met our Capan, my 367 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 4: two kids. She and I look uncannily similar when I 368 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 4: met her. She's the age I am now at sixty 369 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 4: three or thereabouts. She's never wanted anything to do with 370 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: her only two grandchildren. I mean, I feel enormous sympathy 371 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,239 Speaker 4: for her because this is the great trauma I am, 372 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 4: the great trauma of her life. And she's been warmer 373 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 4: to Kate, my partner, and her story is one of 374 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 4: horrendous experience experiences with men, including my father. And again, 375 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 4: you know origin I'm prepared to tell this story is 376 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 4: because this is the stereotype. The reason people aren't coming forward, 377 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 4: the reason people aren't talking is this is the stereotype. 378 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 4: And my mother, my birth mother, has lied to me 379 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 4: my entire life. And the relationship very often where a 380 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 4: child raised by their birth mother is very common, where 381 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 4: the priest is the father and the child discovers that 382 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 4: everything that their mother has told them about their father 383 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 4: has been alive, and it's destroyed families. It's irreparably damaged families. 384 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 4: I didn't have a relationship with my birth mother at all. 385 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 4: On the thirty years of knockbacks and prostration is not common, 386 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 4: but this is something that the Church has perpetuated ongoing. 387 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 4: And I didn't find out the identity of my father 388 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 4: until I did my DNA in Well. I did it 389 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 4: in twenty and fifteen. It was a complicated case which 390 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 4: Kate sold, which I didn't have the patient sold wherewith 391 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 4: all to solve And it took three years and I 392 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 4: found out his name in twenty and eighteen. And the 393 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 4: point that's important to know is that it's only now 394 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 4: that people are doing ancestry DNA and the other DNA 395 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 4: services that they're finding these things out. You know, since 396 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 4: my books come out I had I don't know if 397 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 4: it's hundreds, but it's dozens and dozens and dozens of 398 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 4: people come to me saying I thought the DNA was 399 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 4: wrong because my father. It's at my father was a 400 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 4: Catholic creed. And it's now that the church is being 401 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 4: confronted with this reality, and it's now that people are 402 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 4: coming forward and telling their stories and it's horrific. You know. 403 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 4: There was a woman in London called Sarah Thomas, who's 404 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 4: the daughter of a priest, who started a PhD and 405 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 4: spoke to one hundred children of Press, and she found 406 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 4: that fifty six percent of the children of Press, fifty 407 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 4: six percent had attempted suicide or had suicidal ideation. 408 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: Wow, how does it feel like when you say to me, 409 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: and you say to our audience that you were the 410 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: great trauma of your biological, your birth mum's life, Like 411 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: you seem inexplicably okay with that. I have such admiration 412 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: for you, that is, like you so have got your 413 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: shit together or you're the best actor ever. But I 414 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: feel like it's the former. Why Firstly, it's amazing, and 415 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: I'm it's going to say I'm proud of you, that's silly, 416 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: but I'm so respectful of you, Like there seems to 417 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: be so much compassionate understanding, And I don't know. Forgiveness 418 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: is that the am I on the money? 419 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 5: There? 420 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 4: Is that? What I'm absolutely it is forgiveness. I'm like 421 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 4: a dog with a bone and I haven't been able 422 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 4: to let go of it. And I don't know how 423 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 4: healthy it is to be looking in the rearview era 424 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 4: for so long. I have spent five years on this 425 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 4: and I'm going to leave it alone very soon and 426 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 4: work on another book that's about looking up, not looking down, 427 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 4: or looking forward not looking back. Look, I've spoken to 428 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 4: her quite a number of the mothers of press children, 429 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 4: like my mother, who have some couple in America in particular, 430 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 4: but deal with other mothers of children's Chris, and they 431 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 4: have been to Helen back. And I feel very strongly 432 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 4: that I've been in a position where my life was 433 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 4: at a stage where I was established professionally financially, I had, 434 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 4: you know, I've had a fantastic life, and I've had 435 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 4: everything going for me. I had wonderful, wonderful adoptive parents 436 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 4: and a partner and family, kids, friends and people have 437 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 4: flocked to me that have been in the same boat 438 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 4: and they're enormously damaged. So I felt as though I've 439 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: had an obligation because I've been in a position a 440 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 4: time of life, to be able to speak up when 441 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 4: others can't. You know, very often the children of priests 442 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 4: end up in orphanage's foster care, unsuccessful adoptions. They're in 443 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 4: that fifty six percent that attempted suicide or had suicidal ideation, 444 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 4: And by the skin of my teeth, missed that and 445 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 4: the church. So look, I want to be an advocate, 446 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 4: you know, the church silenced the damaged, and there are 447 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: people who would come forward that an'tswer damaged and are 448 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 4: prepared to speak up, but there's very few of us. 449 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 4: So I felt as though I had an obligation, and 450 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 4: I you know, I forgive my birth mother. Absolutely. 451 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: I could be wrong here too. I'm just reading between 452 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: the lines. It feels like having a purpose bigger than 453 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: you has also been therapeutic for you. Yeah right, yep, yeah, 454 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: like being able to serve and help and love others 455 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: and understand others, and for them to be able to 456 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: just the fact that you are as as mentally, emotionally 457 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: and healthy and physically healthy as you are. I'm sure 458 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: there's peaks and troughs like all of us, but that 459 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: you can talk to them like you talking to them 460 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: is way better than most people talking to them, even 461 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: if it's a compassionate person or a psych or a 462 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: you know you who have been through it. I guess 463 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: that for them is a different kind of connection. 464 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, I suppose it's trite, but you know the 465 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 4: old if you get lemons and make lemonade, you know, 466 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 4: I think it applies. You're trying to find a good 467 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 4: We all want to feel useful, and you know, there 468 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 4: were waves and waves of communications from people in the 469 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 4: same boat that have been enormously damaged, and that's encouraged 470 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 4: me to speak up because I you know, I've had 471 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 4: so much communication with people that have benefited from what 472 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 4: I've written and what I've said, and yeah, you feel useful. 473 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 4: And it's not healthy to stay in this space. It's 474 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 4: not easy to talk about. But I know it's good. 475 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 4: I know it does good, and so you know, in 476 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 4: some ways it's I think also an acknowledgment or but 477 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 4: it's gratitude or you know, the good luck I've had. 478 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 4: How old are your kids, Brendan, One is twenty seven 479 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 4: and one is thirty. How did they respond to this 480 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 4: news where they're like, my granddad was a priest, All right, 481 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 4: coffee anyone? Well, look, it's interesting. You know, they had 482 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 4: nothing to do with the church their entire lives, and 483 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 4: even though their grandparents, my parents were devout, they didn't 484 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 4: get me till quite late, and so they didn't really 485 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 4: have anything to do with the church through their grandparents. 486 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 4: On my side and on Kate's side, they were incredibly 487 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 4: cynical about the church. So they don't have all the 488 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 4: sort of hang ups about priests and what they're supposed 489 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 4: to be like. And Nun's been right, So yeah, I 490 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 4: think they just thought it was one of my little obsessions. 491 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 4: I didn't talk about it much to them. And my 492 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 4: son is very literate and he was really helpful with 493 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 4: the book. And my daughter didn't want to know anything 494 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,239 Speaker 4: about it until it was finished and published and it 495 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 4: came out of a box that had a cover on 496 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 4: it and she read it and she was absolutely knocked out. 497 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 4: And it's had a real I think it's had a 498 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 4: real impact on her. So but yeah, look that the 499 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 4: whole you know, priests having sex thing's that's really an 500 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 4: old person thing, you know. It was interesting. Part of 501 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 4: the book is going out to the desert because my 502 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 4: father spent most of his time in the South Australian 503 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 4: desert and going out there to his parishes and going 504 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 4: to churches and going to masses and meeting people that 505 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 4: knew him really well. I thought that I'll be dead 506 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 4: because he died ninety years of asi in ninety ninety two, 507 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 4: because he was thirty years older than my mother, but 508 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 4: he was from a generation before mine adoptive parents. But 509 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 4: he was still remembered, and eventually it came out. You know, 510 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 4: I thought i'd be up all the cover it in saying, 511 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 4: you know, I can tell them the truth. I said, oh, look, 512 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 4: I've done my DNA and my father's this guy, sorry, 513 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 4: not my father, a relative, a distant relative. Is this 514 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: guy who used to be a priest. And you know, 515 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 4: I'd be standing there, you know, with my hand and 516 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 4: my chin sort of with one foot forward and back 517 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 4: and talking as I am. And they said, he used 518 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 4: to always do that. He used to always stand with 519 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 4: his hand like exactly your voice now and I think 520 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 4: about your voice is exactly like And a number of 521 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 4: them picked it pretty quickly. 522 00:34:59,400 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: Wow. 523 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 4: And the point I'm trying to make is the parishioners, 524 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 4: the people that were the most accepting of the reality 525 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 4: of children of priests and the most aware of the 526 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 4: fact that policts had sexual appetites and lives actively. Are 527 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 4: the parishioners, the people that are in constant denial. You know, 528 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 4: I've spoken to a number of groups, and you know 529 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 4: the first thing I say is I love Catholics. I 530 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 4: love the parishioners. I have no problem with the Catholics, 531 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 4: the most accepting, compassionate, people that I've ever met dealing 532 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 4: with this subject are Catholics. The people I have problems 533 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 4: with the hierarchy within the churches, the priests, and the 534 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 4: further up the totem pole you go, the more in 535 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 4: denial they are, so bishops and cardinals. 536 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: On your website, it's got this thing said, I was 537 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: given my father's rosary beads, my birth father's rosary beads. 538 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: Recently it got me thinking, how many prayers does a 539 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: priest recite for deserting his son or daughter for his 540 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: own sins? Did my father confess and if so, to who? 541 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: When did you write that? 542 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 4: Yeah? Maybe, but towards the end. Actually, yeah, I was 543 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 4: given those rosary beads by a woman who was his 544 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 4: assistant right in his presbytery in the desert in South Australia, 545 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 4: which he'd had for many years. And yeah, I think 546 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,439 Speaker 4: she picked up very very quickly who I was and 547 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 4: was not at all surprised, right, But yeah, look at it. 548 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 4: It's a question many children of priests have, you know, 549 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 4: do they confess who? Do they tell? Who knows? 550 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: Tell us about tell us about your adoptive parents. 551 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 4: Brennan, Yeah, Royan Bette Watkins they got me late Damien. 552 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 4: My brother is older and interestingly so we're a Richmond 553 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 4: family and sad Ignatius in Church Street was dead Parish church. 554 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 4: And my old man was very heavily involved with the 555 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 4: Richmond football club. He actually volunteered fifty years service. So 556 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 4: he did a whole bunch of things. But most of 557 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 4: what he did and what he's known for his being 558 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 4: the timekeeper for the Puddy club amazing. And they couldn't 559 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 4: have kids and were he was out walking their dash 560 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 4: hounds one after and the local priest tapped him on 561 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 4: the shoulder and said, you know Roy, you and Bette, 562 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 4: you know you. You're in your thirties year you don't 563 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 4: have children. What's going on? Good Catholic man like you 564 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 4: should have children? What say you adopt? And that was 565 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 4: my brother and Roy agreed and he put his name 566 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 4: on the list as you do. It's an application for adoption. 567 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 4: And fifteen months later they actually got a phone call 568 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 4: and said, and my mother was thirty nine at this stage, 569 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 4: get older than Roy, and they said we have another 570 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 4: child for you. It's a boy. You need to come tomorrow. 571 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 4: So they hadn't applied, they hadn't gone through any of 572 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 4: the processes, and they had no notice and they didn't 573 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 4: really have any say, that's the norm the children of chress. 574 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 4: People are selected, families are selected, and so they had me, 575 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 4: you know, so they're relatively old parents. They were fabulous people. 576 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 4: We lived in Richmond. We had a sort of a 577 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 4: delicate tests and sandwich shop in Bridge Road, Richmond, which 578 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 4: you know, I'm incredibly fond of that part of the world. 579 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 4: And you know, by chance, my son's brought house and 580 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 4: moved to Richmond. And they were mad about the football, 581 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 4: they were mad about sport. They were devout Catholics in 582 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 4: that way where really they didn't know anything about the 583 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 4: Bible or how the church went, but they were at 584 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 4: church come Wayne High or Shine every Sunday and they 585 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 4: were absolutely locked on and observed lantern whatever it might 586 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 4: be till the day they died. They both got to 587 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,479 Speaker 4: around eighty. So they were absolutely supportive for Damien and 588 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 4: my entire lives went to the sport, did everything that 589 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 4: parents do and birth children couldn't have a closer relationship 590 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 4: too to their offspring that Damien and I enjoyed with 591 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 4: Ryan Bett. And they would have given their lives for us. Wow. 592 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 4: And that's how we felt, you know, that's how we 593 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 4: grew up. There was absolutely no difference. And probably, you know, 594 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 4: with them and many many many adoptive kids, you think 595 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 4: I think the family tries a bit harder. It was 596 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 4: weird that Damien and I and Roy and Bett couldn't, 597 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 4: for four people couldn't look more un alike, and our 598 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 4: interests were so different. You know, everything Damien is he's 599 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 4: like this computer scientist and he's sci fi and doctor 600 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 4: who and he's facts and he's directed. Is a nerd. Absolutely, yeah, 601 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: he's a PhD. He's very very successful in there. And 602 00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 4: I'm the opposite. I'm humanities and books and totally different person. 603 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 4: And our parents were different again, And you know, I 604 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 4: always thought, why the hell didn't the church make some 605 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 4: effort to try and at least adopt kids into families 606 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 4: where there'd be some sort of physical resemblance at least. 607 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: Good luck with that. They probably just went, you know what, 608 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: they're really good people, and these kids need some really 609 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: good people. 610 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well I think that's it. But I do 611 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 4: know that they made a really significant effort in trying 612 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 4: to place the children of priest and or nuns. But 613 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 4: you know some Vincent's Private in Melbourne. Melbourne was sort 614 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 4: of the epicenter of the children of priests in Australia 615 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,280 Speaker 4: and St Vincent's Private is where the majority of priests 616 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 4: children were born and the adoptions were arranged from mother Fabian, 617 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 4: who's a well known sister within the church, arranged those 618 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 4: and then destroyed the records of the children. 619 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: Here's a weird question, but I'm just curious about your 620 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 1: thoughts about this is a big question, but the future 621 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church. Like, since I was a kid, 622 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: it seemed to be flourishing, and I was a kid 623 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: pretty much when you were a kid, and I remember 624 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: going to Mass and there'd be two three, four hundred 625 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: people on a Sunday morning. It was just and my 626 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: mum and dad are still My mom and dad are 627 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: eighty five. They still go to Mass on Sunday mornings 628 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: and there's about fifteen old people that are pretty much 629 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: all the same as them. You know, I don't think 630 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: there's anyone there under seventy. What are your thoughts. I 631 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: know this is not specific to your story, but I'm 632 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: just curious as two blokes who grew up, or in fact, 633 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: two blokes and a woman who grew up in Catholicism 634 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,240 Speaker 1: that I just discovered. If what are your thoughts. 635 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 4: Well, look, I know expert, but my observation is, you know, 636 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 4: in the last forty years me being in a church, 637 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 4: funerals and weddings that you know, that was it, Yes, 638 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 4: and so it was a distorted view of the numbers 639 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 4: of people that were there. But since I found out 640 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 4: my father was priest, I went to a lot of 641 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,280 Speaker 4: churches and a number of services in parishes where he 642 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 4: was and those numbers have really sinned out, and so 643 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 4: you'd go to the services. You know, there used to 644 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 4: be three or four services on a Sunday morning and 645 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 4: there was only one and usually there's the front two 646 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 4: or three rows that are occupied, and that was it. 647 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 4: And they were occupied by people who were very old, 648 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,359 Speaker 4: so people like your parents great and there weren't any 649 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 4: young people are all older. And one of the things 650 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 4: in the outback, and one of the things that the 651 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 4: parishioners complained to me about was that most of the 652 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 4: treets were either from well in South Australia, from Malaysia, 653 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 4: Indonesia and Africa, and though they loved the priests, they 654 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 4: had a really hard time understanding, and it's evident that 655 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 4: when they die out, those churches will no longer operate. 656 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 4: And that's quite a number of churches. But I think 657 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 4: the Catholic Church is booming in the Third World. There's 658 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 4: a huge number of children of priests in the Children 659 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 4: of Priests social media groups that are from Africa, and 660 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 4: they're young men and women. So the church is doing 661 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 4: incredibly well, as it always has. It's a missionary, it's 662 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 4: in the hope and shame business, and it does incredibly 663 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 4: well in areas where people are undergoing extreme poverty. The 664 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 4: Catholic Church also is very successful at business, and what 665 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 4: it succeeds in the Western world is education. And so 666 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 4: you know, particularly in Australia, the funding of the Catholic 667 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 4: institutions is very strong and it's not going to go 668 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 4: away overnight. But I think in the Western world it's 669 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 4: got the hell of a lot of competition. 670 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: Wow, I love chatting with you. So interesting, so interesting. 671 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: So the book is called Tell No One. Brendan Watkins 672 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: is the man. He's a gun, He's a fucking treasure. 673 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: He probably I probably shouldn't swear because I feel like 674 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: he doesn't swear. 675 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 4: How do people I swear plenty, but when I talk 676 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 4: about the god stuff. 677 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, he probably yeah, he probably needs to contrived. I 678 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,839 Speaker 1: can imagine how you go for your life. But if 679 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: only I had that self restraint, you're a better man 680 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,879 Speaker 1: than I youngered in as my mum would say. How 681 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,919 Speaker 1: do people apart from your book? Is there any way 682 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: that people can connect with you? Do you want to 683 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,800 Speaker 1: be connected with email, social media, home address, personal phone number? 684 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: Just kidding and. 685 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 4: Look, everything hangs off my website, so Brendan Watkins dot com. 686 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 4: There's a fair bit of information there. A lot of 687 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 4: people want information about academic research that have backed things up, 688 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,279 Speaker 4: or where to go for help or who to speak to, 689 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 4: and a lot of social media content is there, and 690 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 4: of course a lot of people want to go there 691 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 4: to find links to buy the book, and there's there's 692 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,760 Speaker 4: media there. So the ID Day at ABC Compass program, 693 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 4: which in eight or nine months ago has gone up 694 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,880 Speaker 4: on YouTube and gone international. So the combination of I 695 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 4: view and the episode about children are prest I did 696 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 4: with Compasses somewhere around two and a half million views, 697 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 4: So you know, I'm getting a lot of contact from 698 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 4: people all over the world. But yeah, everything. If people 699 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 4: want to follow things is through Brendan. What cans stock 700 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 4: com on? 701 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 5: Are you? 702 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: And if you're a Catholic priest and you want Brendan 703 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: to come and talk at your church, just give us 704 00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: your shout out. I'm sure you'll be super welcome. Make hey, 705 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: thank you so much. We'll say goodbye, Affair, but appreciate 706 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: you so much for being on the You project. And Tiff, 707 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: thanks for hooking us up. What a good get that. 708 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 2: He's pretty a legend, isn't he. 709 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: Here he goes all right, doesn't he. I thought it'd 710 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: be more damaged. I'm more damaged than him. That's fucking disappointing. 711 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: Thanks Brandon, good on you. 712 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 4: Thanks great, Thanks Ti, thank you