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Speaker 1: I get a you bloody champions. It's the you project,

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Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook and Brendon. I'm going to go. Brendan's

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Speaker 1: probably a probably a vow. Brendan Andrew Brennan, Andrew what cains?

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Speaker 1: He'll tell us in a minute if I fucked that up.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I did. What are the odds? Tiffy? You're good,

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Speaker 1: I'm very good.

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Speaker 2: Thanks. Happy Friday, Oh.

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Speaker 1: Happy Friday to you. You're still looking glamorous. What have

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Speaker 1: you done? You keep saying you haven't done anything? A

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Speaker 1: bit of bloody. It's Loncesston's blue ice eyeliner.

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Speaker 2: Just been putting a grown up jumper on over my

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Speaker 2: muscletop for the You know, I'm being a grown up.

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Speaker 1: We can't recognize you when you're not in a crop top.

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Speaker 1: What's the difference between a crop top and a boob

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Speaker 1: tube is.

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Speaker 2: That boobtube doesn't have straps on the arms. Boobtube just

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Speaker 2: goes around under your armpits with no straps.

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Speaker 1: There you go. Do they still exist?

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Speaker 3: Am I?

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Speaker 1: Is that even a term that we're allowed to use

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four? I'll just point out I didn't

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Speaker 1: invent the term, so don't you yell at me.

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Speaker 2: You're asking them wrong person. I've been wearing blokes muscletops

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Speaker 2: for the last five or six years straight.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's I could say so many things. Hi, Brendan,

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Speaker 1: how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good, Thanks, Craig, I'm I'm absolutely fine, enjoying my

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Speaker 3: Friday afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Well, gid you up. Thanks for joining us on the

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Speaker 1: new project. So what's the middle name?

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Speaker 3: Son?

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Speaker 1: Does it start with a vow? Let me out ask

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Speaker 1: that first.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've got two and yeah, they're very Catholic names.

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Speaker 3: So one is Michael, you know, maybe the ultimate Mick name.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I've also got Francis, which they're all very Catholic.

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Speaker 2: Bro's middle names. Francis.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, Well my mum's brother's name was Francis rip

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Speaker 1: uncle Frank. And is that is that? Because the second

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Speaker 1: of those two names is a confirmation name.

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Speaker 3: Michael is the confirmation name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you know what that is?

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Speaker 3: Tiff?

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Speaker 1: Do you know what a confirmation name is?

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Speaker 3: A name?

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Speaker 2: But I was confirmed. I don't really pay attention to

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Speaker 2: the whole thing though.

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Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a Catholic church? How did

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Speaker 1: I not know this? Were you?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: Are you the worst Catholic in the history of Catholics.

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Speaker 2: Second to you, bro, Why did you know every word

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Speaker 2: of the Bible doesn't mean you're good Catholic?

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Speaker 1: No, I know that I'm a shit Catholic. In fact,

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Speaker 1: what I loved I ripped something off Brendan's site. I

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Speaker 1: can't find it now, but it was something like Gandhi

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Speaker 1: said something like I like your Christ, but not your Christians.

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Speaker 1: Your Christians are nothing like your Christ. Did I get

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Speaker 1: that somewhat right? Brendan, Yeah, it's close. That's buried a

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Speaker 1: way somewhere rather in the socials page. But yeah, you're close. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well did you go to Sorry Brendan, this should really

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Speaker 1: be about you, but let me just catch up on

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Speaker 1: ten years of tiff that did you go to Catholic schools?

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Speaker 2: I went to a Catholic primary school.

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Speaker 1: Did you pray to Sweet Baby Jesus? Yeah I did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we walk down to the chap Wow, I did not

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Speaker 1: know anyway, enough about enough about our history. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: to our guests, Brenda. Did you only go to Catholic

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Speaker 1: schools as well? Or did you actually well, you were adopted,

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Speaker 1: so mate, were your parents even Catholic? Was your family Catholic.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So in the sixties, so

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Speaker 3: I was born and adopted in sixty one, the church

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Speaker 3: went to huge pains to ensure all of the children,

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Speaker 3: all of the Catholic children born went to Catholic families,

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Speaker 3: right right, And so you know, the families that didn't

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Speaker 3: have kids, they were very very keen to I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that they were going to continue the community and to

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Speaker 3: adopt them into childless families. And particularly it's like me

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Speaker 3: that had the background that I had, so that the

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Speaker 3: birth parents that I had always ended up with Catholic

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Speaker 3: adopt for parents.

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Speaker 1: Well, and was that I mean, obviously not common, but

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Speaker 1: obviously not completely rare, because you say, when people who

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Speaker 1: came from situations like you, So you're not Robinson Crusoe in.

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Speaker 3: This No, there's well, depending on who you believe, there

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Speaker 3: are no firm statistics, but it's been estimated that there's

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Speaker 3: well over one hundred thousand children who have been fathered

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Speaker 3: by Catholic priests.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I'm writing them down. One hundred thousand.

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Speaker 1: That is well, obviously, I mean, people have already read

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Speaker 1: the intro and the synopsis of this show by the

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Speaker 1: time they're hearing us, So they're going to know that

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Speaker 1: your dad was a priest, or your biological father was

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Speaker 1: a priest, and your biological mother was a nun. I

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Speaker 1: bet that's a great conversation starter at dinners.

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Speaker 4: Well, it makes it never good, no, no, no, it

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Speaker 4: It is a sort of a microdrop moment. But it's

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Speaker 4: probably the only advantage is you know your elevate a

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Speaker 4: pitch when you're talking to publishers.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure that's going to get a few doors

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Speaker 1: open and a few years open when you decided to.

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Speaker 1: So your book is called Tell No One. When did

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Speaker 1: you come up with the idea to, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of put your story, your life into something that we

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Speaker 1: could all read and connect with.

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Speaker 3: I've always been a journaler, so I've always written extensively

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Speaker 3: because my story is very complicated, and what is contained

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Speaker 3: in the book, or the majority of it, at least

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Speaker 3: covers thirty years. So I at nearly thirty years of age,

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Speaker 3: I discovered the identity of my mother when I got

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Speaker 3: my original birth certificate, and it took me another nearly

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Speaker 3: thirty years to find out who my birth father was.

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Speaker 3: And there are all sorts of issues that obstacles that

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Speaker 3: occurred in my path that I needed clear to find

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Speaker 3: out that answer. I journaled as much as anything else,

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Speaker 3: to record the things that happened, but equally to try

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Speaker 3: and work out how I felt about it, you know,

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Speaker 3: to unpack the complexities of the journey I was taking.

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Speaker 3: When I found out my father was a Catholic priest,

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Speaker 3: so that was two thousand and eighteen, I ended up

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Speaker 3: quitting my job and thought I would spend twelve months

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Speaker 3: working out who this man was because he had a

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Speaker 3: very larger he had a huge life, and I wanted

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Speaker 3: to research him, record it as much as anything else

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Speaker 3: for my kids. I was job where I've been there

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Speaker 3: for thirteen and a half years. I was over it.

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Speaker 3: It was time to move on. I could afford to

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Speaker 3: take a year off work, and the more I discovered

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Speaker 3: and learned about my family, and more so the more

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Speaker 3: I discovered about the children of priests, the more research

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Speaker 3: that led to, and the more angry I became, and

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Speaker 3: the more determined I became to turn what I was

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Speaker 3: recording into a book to make public the reality of

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Speaker 3: what the Catholic Church has done in silencing the children

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Speaker 3: of prests, and indeed our mothers.

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Speaker 2: Can I say, and I'm not blowing smoke. Brilliant book,

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Speaker 2: so everyone should go and buy that. I bought it

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Speaker 2: on audible after I first met Brendan, so good tell no.

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Speaker 1: One is the name of the book. Brendan Watkins is

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Speaker 1: the author. So I mean, I'm sure we could do

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Speaker 1: an hour just on what the Catholic Church has done

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Speaker 1: and not done. But give us a snapshot, just open

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Speaker 1: the door a little bit in kind of enlightening us

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Speaker 1: as to what the Catholic Church's response reaction is to

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Speaker 1: you know, all of these kids.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I suppose to encapsulate the size of the issue.

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Speaker 3: The church, you know today has something like four hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand Catholic priests, and the church is very foggy around

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Speaker 3: its definition of celibacy. And in surveys that have been

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Speaker 3: done and Sipe is the most commonly quoted, half the

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Speaker 3: Catholic priests are not celibate. And when you think about

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Speaker 3: the Church's.

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Speaker 1: View around what's hang on? Really yeah half.

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Speaker 3: So it goes back to, you know, the Church has

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Speaker 3: put vasiline over the lens of what the definition of

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Speaker 3: celibacy is and it's not really all that old. The

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Speaker 3: notion of the introduction of celibacy. It's only three or

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Speaker 3: four hundred years old. The church was financially damaged by

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Speaker 3: priests having children and their estate ending up in the

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Speaker 3: hands of their family and not the church. Church introduced

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Speaker 3: in the eleventh century are rules about preventing married men

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Speaker 3: becoming priests, right, It didn't say you can't have sex,

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Speaker 3: and so surveys of priests still received a foggy notion

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Speaker 3: about what celibacy means. And in recent years surveys of

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Speaker 3: priests have found that anonymously conducted that half of them

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Speaker 3: is still having sex of one sort or another.

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Speaker 1: That is, that is, But I mean the Bible talks

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Speaker 1: about sex outside of marriage pretty clear, and lolls isn't

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Speaker 1: based on the Bible, isn't It isn't that isn't it

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Speaker 1: considered a sin within the church? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Indeed, And so I suppose in many ways, the press

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Speaker 3: that have had children this is an extension of the

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Speaker 3: abuse of minus in many ways. So it's a part

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Speaker 3: of that story. So I think everyone's been aware. In Australia,

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Speaker 3: the Royal Commission and largely what's happened is price have

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Speaker 3: fathered children and as has happened with child abuse. The

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Speaker 3: priest very often, if this becomes known, is moved on

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Speaker 3: to another parish or another state or even another country,

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Speaker 3: and he has no recognition of the child. Very often

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Speaker 3: the women are honorable, very often. So you know, I

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Speaker 3: know a huge number of children of priest personally and

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Speaker 3: anecdotally through different groups, and the stereotype of my mother

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Speaker 3: is the most common. So usually they're vulnerable single women.

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Speaker 3: They're believers, so they're parishioners, and very often are very devout. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and quite often they're the housekeeper or a woman that's

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Speaker 3: come to the priest and she's been experiencing domestic violence

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Speaker 3: or the husband's being killed, or the husband's run off.

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Speaker 3: They're extremely vulnerable to spiritual abuse and in quite a

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Speaker 3: number of cases physical abuse. Wow. So she becomes pregnant,

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Speaker 3: the priest moves on and the church will more often

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Speaker 3: than not deny, but in most cases might put a

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Speaker 3: roof over the head of the woman. In extreme cases,

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Speaker 3: they might reward her with some money, essentially to buy

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Speaker 3: her silence, but that's always in exchange, or nearly always

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Speaker 3: in exchange for a confidentiality ran WOW. In twenty and fourteen,

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Speaker 3: the United Nation United Nations under the Rights of the

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Speaker 3: Child Investigation recommended to the Vatican that it has to

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Speaker 3: stop silencing the children of priests. This is a huge

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Speaker 3: international phenomena and the Church has been incredibly successful in

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Speaker 3: silencing the mothers and the children. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So I mean this is an in your opinion question.

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Speaker 3: This is not.

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Speaker 1: An analytical or a database question. In your opinion. Are

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Speaker 1: these priests more opportunists or predators, I'm sure or something else? Maybe?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure every case is unique, that they're all different,

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Speaker 3: but they're Again, there aren't firm stats on this, but

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, the priests that have had children very often

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Speaker 3: have other children, and so it's not a once off,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm talking about, And the numbers I

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Speaker 3: spoke about the priests that remain priests and deny recognition

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Speaker 3: of their child. There are instances, and they're quite rare

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Speaker 3: of the priest you know, having you know the thorn

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Speaker 3: Bird's moment. You know, it's a love story. And in

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Speaker 3: some of those instances they leave the priesthood and they

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Speaker 3: marry the woman and they have the family. That's the rarity.

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Speaker 3: That's not the that's not the story that I'm talking about.

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Speaker 3: There are well over one hundred thousand people who have

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Speaker 3: pessentially been gagged by the church because the priests won't

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Speaker 3: recognize their child. And in many cases, you know, all

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Speaker 3: the sort of foundation documents, birth certificates, details about the press,

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Speaker 3: access to the priest's estate are all denied by the church.

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Speaker 1: Have you had any blowback, either by the church or

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Speaker 1: people within the church. There's probably a double question. I

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Speaker 1: probably should have said how much?

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Speaker 3: Well, not really, not really officially, no, not really. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's been a huge way of response from mainly parishioners

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Speaker 3: and mainly people in a similar vote to me. Wow,

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Speaker 3: But look, officially no. I was with Alan and Nunwen.

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Speaker 3: The book is published by Alan and so we had

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Speaker 3: a lot of high level barristers working on my book

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Speaker 3: to ensure that everything was able to be verified. But

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Speaker 3: now look, the church, you know, treated me like it

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Speaker 3: does every other child of a priest and mother that

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Speaker 3: comes forward. Basically, they pull down the shutters and you

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Speaker 3: hear nothing.

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Speaker 1: And what can you? What can you or what are

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Speaker 1: you comfortable to tell us Brennan about your biological mother

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Speaker 1: and father that you can I know, we can read

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Speaker 1: the book, don't forget everybody read the book tell no one.

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Speaker 3: Sure. Well, most importantly, I feel a great sympathy for

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Speaker 3: my mother. I believe my mother was a victim of

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Speaker 3: my father, even though they spent many, many years of

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Speaker 3: their lives together and she actually nursed him for the

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Speaker 3: last eight or ten years of his life. They lived

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Speaker 3: together under the same roof Wow. However, when they met,

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Speaker 3: there was a thirty year age gap when she was

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Speaker 3: around fifteen, and he was a much older man, and

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Speaker 3: she was a vulnerable girl. And that's a stereotype. And

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Speaker 3: he was the man, the spiritual leader, He was the

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Speaker 3: hands and feet of God on earth. You can't say

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Speaker 3: no to that if you are a vulnerable young woman,

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Speaker 3: and that's the stereotypes. So that's the most important thing

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Speaker 3: to remember. And you know, I believe my mother has

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Speaker 3: not treated me well at all in the last thirty years,

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Speaker 3: and she is still alive. But I absolutely understand it

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Speaker 3: and empathize with her response. So, long story short, I

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Speaker 3: got access to my birth certificate when I was nearly

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Speaker 3: thirty because Kate, my partner, and I were about to

259
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Speaker 3: have a family. Our story was a little complicated because

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Speaker 3: I was always curious. I always wanted to know who

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Speaker 3: my birth parents were. I have an adopted brother, he's

262
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Speaker 3: a little older, we're super close, and he wanted nothing

263
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 3: to do with it, had no interest. He thought it

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Speaker 3: was bizarre that I was so keen to know these things.

265
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Speaker 3: And I spent the last thirty years, you know, banging

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Speaker 3: my head against a brick wall with no success, and

267
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Speaker 3: he just keeps standing back, shaking his head. So I

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Speaker 3: got my birth certificate, and I thought it had additional

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00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,399
Speaker 3: justification to find out who my birth parents were because

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Speaker 3: Kate had a health issue called malignant hyperperrexia, which essentially

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Speaker 3: means sure you can't have anesthetics, and it had killed

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Speaker 3: a number of people within her family. And as we're

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Speaker 3: about to have kids, I'm thinking, well, hang on, I

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Speaker 3: know nothing about what's in my lurking in my DNA soup.

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Speaker 3: What are the things that our kids might be vulnerable to?

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Speaker 3: And you know, we were making plans how she was

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Speaker 3: going to have anesthetic. It was needed, you know, when

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Speaker 3: the birth occurred, and all those sorts of things, and

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Speaker 3: when you have kids, it just makes you think about genetics.

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Speaker 3: So I got my airth certificate. The Catholic Church arranged

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Speaker 3: the adoption and they sat me down. I looked at

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Speaker 3: my mother's name and it wasn't the stereotype that I expected. Normally,

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Speaker 3: it's a teenager in those days, and passion had got

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Speaker 3: the better of them and they were too young to

285
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Speaker 3: have a child, and the babies put up for adoption.

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Speaker 3: This was the woman who was twenty seven. Wow, she

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Speaker 3: didn't have an Anglo name. I thought she'd have an

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00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,159
Speaker 3: Anglo name like ours, and it was something odd. She

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Speaker 3: was in South Australia, so I desperately wanted to know more.

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Speaker 3: And for all the reasons such as said, I really

291
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Speaker 3: wanted to at least find out the biological history healthy shies.

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Speaker 3: Cutting to the chase. They sat me down a few

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Speaker 3: weeks later. They insisted, or not insisted. They were very

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Speaker 3: persuasive in having me consent to then make contact with

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Speaker 3: her on my behalf. And they sat me down and said,

296
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Speaker 3: we're spoken to Maggie, your mother, and you'll never see her,

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Speaker 3: you'll never talk to her, you'll never meet her. You

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Speaker 3: need to go home and forget about it forever. And

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Speaker 3: you know that's that's a blow that you know is

300
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Speaker 3: reverberated through me for decades. And I didn't realize quite

301
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 3: at the time the significance of it, and I tried

302
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 3: to but I couldn't. And the further we went down

303
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Speaker 3: the path of you know, getting pregnant and having kids,

304
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Speaker 3: I couldn't let go of it. And again it's you know,

305
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Speaker 3: some chapters in the book. But Kate, we were doing sleuthing,

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00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 3: and so it was before the Year of Google. We

307
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 3: were doing some sleuthing and retraced a sister in law

308
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Speaker 3: who was in South Australia, and Kate rang the sister

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Speaker 3: in law, making out she was, you know, a long

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Speaker 3: lost friend. And I had a conversation with his sister

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Speaker 3: in law and said, I'm trying to track down Maggie

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Speaker 3: Beckett and this is a pseudonym. That's not everyone. And

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Speaker 3: the woman replied, oh, you mean Maggie Vennune. M wow,

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Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, the penny dropped. Ah, that's

315
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Speaker 3: why she can't see me. That's why she won't expect

316
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 3: to me. It made sense, and it was just so

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Speaker 3: bizarre because I was raised him, you know, an indoctrination

318
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Speaker 3: a school you know, not at all dissimilar to yours. Correct,

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Speaker 3: And so I sort of let it go for some

320
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 3: period of time, and eventually a year or two later

321
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 3: wrote to her and she replied, and there was essentially

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Speaker 3: thirty years of me discovering that she wasn't actually a

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Speaker 3: nun when I was conceived or born, which is a

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Speaker 3: very pertinent point to her. And she's still alive, and

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Speaker 3: she finds that offensive that people might think that's the case,

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Speaker 3: which I totally understand. She had been in an order,

327
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Speaker 3: she had joined but not completed her term in the

328
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: convent she left was outside of the convent. For my

329
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: estimation is around three years I was conceived, born, and

330
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Speaker 3: to pay her penance to atone she joined another convent

331
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Speaker 3: and stayed for twenty five years, and very close to

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Speaker 3: the period of her leaving that convent, twenty five years later.

333
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 3: I made contact around nineteen ninety, so, just when she

334
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 3: thought she'd done her penance, she'd paid the price, I

335
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 3: show up and little did I know that when I

336
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: made contact, she was living with my birth father. She

337
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 3: was living with father, Vincent Shield, and for thirty years

338
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: I tried to discover his identity and was told many

339
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 3: different stories. I was told it was a short relationship,

340
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 3: it was a long relationship. It was a man who

341
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 3: had a family, a man that she rang a number

342
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 3: of times until he had his phone disconnected, and eventually,

343
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,959
Speaker 3: many years after first contact, she told me, no, well

344
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: I told you his name. I don't know why you

345
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: keep nagging about his name's Paul Hayes. So I hired

346
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: a private detective to run aroun around Sydney trying to

347
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 3: find this Paul Haze where she used to live with

348
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 3: my father, and spent a whole lot of money trying

349
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: to find him. And eventually he came back and said, look,

350
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: I've done a lot of these cases adoptions. I know

351
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 3: a lot about this that I spoke to just about

352
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 3: every Paul Haste that is in the age that could

353
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: be your father. He doesn't exist. It's invented. I went

354
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: back to my birth mother and her response is, well,

355
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: you were lied to, and so as I and agreed,

356
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 3: so she made out it it invented the name when

357
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 3: she knew him. But of course he was still alive

358
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Speaker 3: and they were still living together.

359
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Speaker 1: In so that was thirty plus years ago. And so

360
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: you and your mum have never really connected, No.

361
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 3: It's all yeah, it's always been very arms length. And

362
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: look we're mainly communicated by a letter. And in those

363
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: thirty years it might only be six or eight letters.

364
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 3: We've met face to face. She's met our Capan, my

365
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: two kids. She and I look uncannily similar when I

366
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: met her. She's the age I am now at sixty

367
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 3: three or thereabouts. She's never wanted anything to do with

368
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 3: her only two grandchildren. I mean, I feel enormous sympathy

369
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 3: for her because this is the great trauma I am,

370
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: the great trauma of her life. And she's been warmer

371
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: to Kate, my partner, and her story is one of

372
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: horrendous experience experiences with men, including my father. And again,

373
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: you know origin I'm prepared to tell this story is

374
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: because this is the stereotype. The reason people aren't coming forward,

375
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 3: the reason people aren't talking is this is the stereotype.

376
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: And my mother, my birth mother, has lied to me

377
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 3: my entire life. And the relationship very often where a

378
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: child raised by their birth mother is very common, where

379
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: the priest is the father and the child discovers that

380
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: everything that their mother has told them about their father

381
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 3: has been alive, and it's destroyed families. It's irreparably damaged families.

382
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: I didn't have a relationship with my birth mother at all.

383
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: On the thirty years of knockbacks and prostration is not common,

384
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: but this is something that the Church has perpetuated ongoing.

385
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 3: And I didn't find out the identity of my father

386
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: until I did my DNA in Well. I did it

387
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 3: in twenty and fifteen. It was a complicated case which

388
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 3: Kate sold, which I didn't have the patient sold wherewith

389
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: all to solve And it took three years and I

390
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 3: found out his name in twenty and eighteen. And the

391
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 3: point that's important to know is that it's only now

392
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 3: that people are doing ancestry DNA and the other DNA

393
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: services that they're finding these things out. You know, since

394
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: my books come out I had I don't know if

395
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: it's hundreds, but it's dozens and dozens and dozens of

396
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: people come to me saying I thought the DNA was

397
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 3: wrong because my father. It's at my father was a

398
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 3: Catholic creed. And it's now that the Church is being

399
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 3: confronted with this reality, and it's now that people are

400
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: coming forward and telling their stories and it's horrific. You know.

401
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 3: There was a woman in London called Sarah Thomas, who's

402
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 3: the daughter of a priest, who started a PhD and

403
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: spoke to one hundred children of Press, and she found

404
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 3: that fifty six percent of the children of Press, fifty

405
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: six percent had attempted suicide or had suicidal ideation.

406
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: Wow, how does it feel like when you say to me,

407
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: and you say to our audience that you were the

408
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: great trauma of your biological, your birth mum's life, Like

409
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: you seem inexplicably okay with that. I have such admiration

410
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: for you, that is, like you so have got your

411
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: shit together or you're the best actor ever. But I

412
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: feel like it's the former. Why Firstly, it's amazing, and

413
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: I'm it's going to say I'm proud of you, that's silly,

414
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: but I'm so respectful of you, Like there seems to

415
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: be so much compassionate understanding, And I don't know. Forgiveness

416
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: is that the am I on the money? There?

417
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: Is that? What I'm absolutely it is forgiveness. I'm like

418
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 3: a dog with a bone and I haven't been able

419
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 3: to let go of it. And I don't know how

420
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: healthy it is to be looking in the rearview era

421
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: for so long. I have spent five years on this

422
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: and I'm going to leave it alone very soon and

423
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: work on another book that's about looking up, not looking down,

424
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 3: or looking forward not looking back. Look, I've spoken to

425
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: her quite a number of the mothers of press children,

426
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 3: like my mother, who have some couple in America in particular,

427
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: but deal with other mothers of children's Chris, and they

428
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: have been to Helen back. And I feel very strongly

429
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: that I've been in a position where my life was

430
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: at a stage where I was established professionally financially, I had,

431
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: you know, I've had a fantastic life, and I've had

432
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 3: everything going for me. I had wonderful, wonderful adoptive parents

433
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: and a partner and family, kids, friends and people have

434
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 3: flocked to me that have been in the same boat

435
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: and they're enormously damaged. So I felt as though I've

436
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 3: had an obligation because I've been in a position a

437
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: time of life, to be able to speak up when

438
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: others can't. You know, very often the children of priests

439
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: end up in orphanage's foster care, unsuccessful adoptions. They're in

440
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: that fifty six percent that attempted suicide or had suicidal ideation,

441
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: And by the skin of my teeth, missed that and

442
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 3: the church. So look, I want to be an advocate,

443
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: you know, the church silenced the damaged, and there are

444
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: people who would come forward that an'tswer damaged and are

445
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: prepared to speak up, but there's very few of us.

446
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: So I felt as though I had an obligation, and

447
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: I you know, I forgive my birth mother. Absolutely.

448
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: I could be wrong here too. I'm just reading between

449
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: the lines. It feels like having a purpose bigger than

450
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: you has also been therapeutic for you. Yeah right, yep, yeah,

451
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: like being able to serve and help and love others

452
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: and understand others, and for them to be able to

453
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: just the fact that you are as as mentally, emotionally

454
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: and healthy and physically healthy as you are. I'm sure

455
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: there's peaks and troughs like all of us, but that

456
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: you can talk to them like you talking to them

457
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: is way better than most people talking to them, even

458
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: if it's a compassionate person or a psych or a

459
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: you know you who have been through it. I guess

460
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: that for them is a different kind of connection.

461
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I suppose it's trite, but you know the

462
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: old if you get lemons and make lemonade, you know,

463
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: I think it applies. You're trying to find a good

464
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: We all want to feel useful, and you know, there

465
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: were waves and waves of communications from people in the

466
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: same boat that have been enormously damaged, and that's encouraged

467
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: me to speak up because I you know, I've had

468
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: so much communication with people that have benefited from what

469
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: I've written and what I've said, and yeah, you feel useful.

470
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: And it's not healthy to stay in this space. It's

471
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: not easy to talk about. But I know it's good.

472
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: I know it does good, and so you know, in

473
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: some ways it's I think also an acknowledgment or but

474
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 3: it's gratitude or you know, the good luck I've had.

475
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: How old are your kids, Brendan, One is twenty seven

476
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: and one is thirty. How did they respond to this

477
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: news where they're like, my granddad was a priest, All right,

478
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: coffee anyone? Well, look, it's interesting. You know, they had

479
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 3: nothing to do with the church their entire lives, and

480
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: even though their grandparents, my parents were devout, they didn't

481
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: get me till quite late, and so they didn't really

482
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: have anything to do with the church through their grandparents.

483
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: On my side and on Kate's side, they were incredibly

484
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: cynical about the church. So they don't have all the

485
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 3: sort of hang ups about priests and what they're supposed

486
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: to be like. And Nun's been right, So yeah, I

487
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: think they just thought it was one of my little obsessions.

488
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: I didn't talk about it much to that and my

489
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: son is very literate and he was really helpful with

490
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: the book. And my daughter didn't want to know anything

491
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 3: about it until it was finished and published and it

492
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: came out of a box that had a cover on

493
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: it and she read it and she was absolutely knocked out.

494
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: And it's had a real I think it's had a

495
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 3: real impact on her. So but yeah, look that the

496
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 3: whole you know, priests having sex thing's that's really an

497
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: old person thing, you know. It was interesting. Part of

498
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: the book is going out to the desert because my

499
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: father spent most of his time in the South Australian

500
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: desert and going out there to his parishes and going

501
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: to churches and going to masses and meeting people that

502
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: knew him really well. I thought that I'll be dead

503
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: because he died ninety years of asi in ninety ninety two,

504
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: because he was thirty years older than my mother, but

505
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 3: he was from a generation before mine adoptive parents. But

506
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 3: he was still remembered, and eventually it came out. You know,

507
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: I thought i'd be up all the cover it in saying,

508
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: you know, I can't tell them the truth. I said, oh, look,

509
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: I've done my DNA and my father's this guy, sorry,

510
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 3: not my father, a relative, a distant relative. Is this

511
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: guy who used to be a priest. And you know,

512
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: I'd be standing there, you know, with my hand and

513
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: my chin sort of with one foot forward and back

514
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: and talking as I am. And they said he used

515
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: to always do that. He used to always stand with

516
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: his hand like exactly your voice now and I think

517
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: about your voice is exactly like And a number of

518
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: them picked it pretty quickly.

519
00:34:59,400 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 1: Wow.

520
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 3: And the point I'm trying to make is the parishioners,

521
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: the people that were the most accepting of the reality

522
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: of children of priests and the most aware of the

523
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 3: fact that policts had sexual appetites and lives actively are

524
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: the parishioners, the people that are in constant denial. You know,

525
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: I've spoken to a number of groups, and you know,

526
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: the first thing I say is I love Catholics. I

527
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 3: love the parishioners. I have no problem with the Catholics.

528
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: The most accepting compassionate people that I've ever met dealing

529
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: with this subject are Catholics. The people I have problems

530
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: with the hierarchy within the churches, the priests, and the

531
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 3: further up the totem pole you go, the more in

532
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 3: denial they are, so bishops and cardinals.

533
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: On your website, it's got this thing said, I was

534
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: given my father's rosary beads, my birth father's rosary beads. Recently.

535
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: It got me thinking, how many prayers does a priest

536
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: recite for deserting his son or daughter for his own sins?

537
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: Did my father confess and if so, to who? When

538
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: did you write that?

539
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe, but towards the end. Actually, yeah, I was

540
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: given those rosary beads by a woman who was his

541
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: assistant right in his presbytery in the desert in South Australia,

542
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: which he'd had for many years. And yeah, I think

543
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 3: she picked up very very quickly who I was and

544
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 3: was not at all surprised, right, But yeah, look at it,

545
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: it's a questioned many children of priests have, you know,

546
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 3: do they confess who? Do they tell? Who knows?

547
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: Tell us about tell us about your adoptive parents?

548
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: Brennan, Yeah, Royan Bette Watkins. They got me late Damien.

549
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 3: My brother is older and interestingly so we're a Richmond family.

550
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 3: And sad Ignatius in Church Street was dead Parish church.

551
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 3: And my old man was very heavily involved with the

552
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: Richmond football club. He actually volunteered fifty years service. So

553
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: he did a whole bunch of things. But most of

554
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: what he did and what he's known for his being

555
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: the timekeeper for the Puddy club amazing. And they couldn't

556
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 3: have kids and were he was out walking their dash

557
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: hounds one after and the local priest tapped him on

558
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: the shoulder and said, you know Roy, you and Bette,

559
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: you know you you're in your thirties year you don't

560
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 3: have children. What's going on? Good Catholic man like you

561
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: should have children? What say you adopt? And that was

562
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: my brother and Roy agreed and he put his name

563
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 3: on the list as you do. It's an application for adoption.

564
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 3: And fifteen months later they actually got a phone call

565
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: and said, and my mother was thirty nine at this stage,

566
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: get older than Roy, and they said we have another

567
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: child for you. It's a boy. You need to come tomorrow.

568
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: So they hadn't applied. They hadn't gone through any of

569
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: the processes and they had no notice, and they didn't

570
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: really have any say that's the norm. The children of chress.

571
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 3: People are selected, families are selected, and so they had me,

572
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: you know, so they're relatively old parents. They were fabulous people.

573
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: We lived in Richmond. We had a sort of a

574
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 3: delicate tests and sandwich shop in Bridge Road, Richmond, which

575
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: you know, I'm incredibly fond of that part of the world.

576
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: And you know, by chance, my son's brought house and

577
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: moved to Richmond. And they were mad about the football,

578
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: they were mad about sport. They were devout Catholics in

579
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: that way where really they didn't know anything about the

580
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 3: Bible or how the church went. But they were at

581
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: church come Wayne High or shine every Sunday and they

582
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 3: were absolutely locked on and observed lantern whatever it might

583
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 3: be till the day they died. They both got to

584
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 3: around eighty. So they were absolutely supportive for Damien and

585
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: my entire lives went to the sport, did everything that

586
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: parents do and birth children couldn't have a closer relationship

587
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: too to their offspring that Damien and I enjoyed with

588
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 3: Ryan Bett. And they would have given their lives for us. Wow,

589
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: And that's how we felt, you know, that's how we

590
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: grew up. There was absolutely no difference. And probably, you know,

591
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 3: with them and many many, many adoptive kids, you think

592
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: I think the family tries a bit harder. It was

593
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: weird that Damien and I and Roy and Bett couldn't

594
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: for four people couldn't look more un alike, and our

595
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 3: interests were so different. You know, everything Damien is he's

596
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 3: like this computer scientist and he's sci fi and doctor

597
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 3: who and he's facts and he's directed. Is a nerd absolutely, yeah,

598
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: he's a PhD. He's very very successful in there. And

599
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 3: I'm the opposite. I'm humanities and books and totally different person.

600
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: And our parents were different again, And you know, I

601
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 3: always thought, why the hell didn't the church make some

602
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 3: effort to try and at least adopt kids into families

603
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: where there'd be some sort of physical resemblance at least.

604
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: Good luck with that. They probably just went, you know what,

605
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: they're really good people, and these kids need some really

606
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: good people.

607
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I think that's it. But I do

608
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 3: know that they made a really significant effort in trying

609
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: to place the children of priest and or nuns, but

610
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: you know some Vincent's Private in Melbourne. Melbourne was sort

611
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: of the epicenter of the children of priests in Australia

612
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 3: and St Vincent's Private is where the majority of priests

613
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 3: children were born and the adoptions were arranged from mother Fabian,

614
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 3: who's a well known sister within the church, arranged those

615
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: and then destroyed the records of the children.

616
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: Here's a weird question, but I'm just curious about your

617
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: thoughts about this is a big question, but the future

618
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church. Like, since I was a kid,

619
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: it seemed to be flourishing. And I was a kid

620
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: pretty much when you were a kid, And I remember

621
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: going to Mass and there'd be two three, four hundred

622
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: people on a Sunday morning. It was just and my

623
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: mum and dad are still My mom and dad are

624
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: eighty five. They still go to Mass on Sunday mornings

625
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: and there's about fifteen old people that are pretty much

626
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: all the same as them. You know, I don't think

627
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: there's anyone there under seventy. What are your thoughts. I

628
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: know this is not specific to your story, but I'm

629
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: just curious as two blokes who grew up or in fact,

630
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: two blokes and a woman who grew up in Catholicism

631
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: that I just discovered. If what are your thoughts.

632
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: Well, look, I know expert, but my observation is, you know,

633
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: in the last forty years me being in a church,

634
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: funerals and weddings that you know, that was it, Yes,

635
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 3: And so it was a distorted view of the numbers

636
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 3: of people that were there. But since I found out

637
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 3: my father was priest, I went to a lot of

638
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: churches and a number of services in parishes where he was,

639
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 3: and those numbers have really sinned out, and so you'd

640
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: go to the services. You know, there used to be

641
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: three or four services on a Sunday morning and there

642
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: was only one and usually there's the front two or

643
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: three rows that are occupied, and that was it. And

644
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 3: they were occupied by people who were very old, so

645
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: people like your parents great and there weren't any young

646
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 3: people are all older. And one of the things in

647
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: the outback, and one of the things that the parishioners

648
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: complained to me about was that most of the treets

649
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 3: were either from well in South Australia, from Malaysia, Indonesia

650
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: and Africa. And though they loved the priests. They had

651
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: a really hard time understanding, and it's evident that when

652
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: they die out, those churches will no longer operate. And

653
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: that's quite a number of churches. But I think the

654
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: Catholic Church is booming in the Third World. There's a

655
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: huge number of children of priests in the Children of

656
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: Priests social media groups that are from Africa, and they're

657
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: young men and women. So the church is doing incredibly well,

658
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 3: as it always has. It's a missionary it's in the

659
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 3: hope and shame business, and it does incredibly well in

660
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: areas where people are undergoing extreme poverty. The Catholic Church

661
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 3: also is very successful at business, and what it succeeds

662
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 3: in the Western world is education. And so you know,

663
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 3: particularly in Australia, the funding of the Catholic institutions is

664
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: very strong and it's not going to go away overnight.

665
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 3: But I think in the Western world it's got the

666
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: hell of a lot of competition.

667
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: Wow, I love chatting with you. So interesting, so interesting.

668
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: So the book is called Tell No One. Brendan Watkins

669
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: is the man. He's a gun, He's a fucking treasure.

670
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: He probably I probably shouldn't swear because I feel like

671
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't swear.

672
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: How do people I swear plenty, but when I talk

673
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 3: about the god stuff.

674
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, he probably yeah, he probably needs to contrived. I

675
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: can imagine how you go for your life. But if

676
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: only I had that self restraint, You're a better man

677
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: than I youngered in as my mum would say. How

678
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 1: do people apart from your book? Is there any way

679
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: that people can connect with you? Do you want to

680
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: be connected with email, social media, home address, personal phone number?

681
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: Just kidding and.

682
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 3: Look, everything hangs off my website, so Brendan Watkins dot com.

683
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: There's a fair bit of information there. A lot of

684
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: people want information about academic research that have backed things up,

685
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: or where to go for help or who to speak to,

686
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 3: and a lot of social media content is there, and

687
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 3: of course a lot of people want to go there

688
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: to find links to buy the book, and there's there's

689
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 3: media there. So the ID Day at ABC Compass program,

690
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: which in eight or nine months ago has gone up

691
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 3: on YouTube and gone international. So the combination of I

692
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 3: view and the episode about children are prest I did

693
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: with Compasses somewhere around two and a half million views,

694
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm getting a lot of contact from

695
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 3: people all over the world. But yeah, everything, if people

696
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: want to follow things is through Brendan. What cans stock

697
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 3: com on? Are you?

698
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: And if you're a Catholic priest and you want Brendan

699
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: to come and talk at your church, just give us

700
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: your shout out. I'm sure you'll be super welcome. Make hey,

701
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We'll say goodbye, affair, but appreciate

702
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: you so much for being on the You project. And Tiff,

703
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: thanks for hooking us up. What a good get that.

704
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: He's pretty a legend, isn't he?

705
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: He s he goes all right, doesn't he? I thought

706
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: it'd be more damaged. I'm more damaged than him. That's

707
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: fucking disappointing. Thanks Brandon, good on you.

708
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 3: Thanks great, Thanks Ti, thank you