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Speaker 1: I get a team. Welcome back. It's been three days

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Speaker 1: since I've sat in this chair. Melissa. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've been on because you make me do so much work,

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Speaker 1: and last week I recorded fourteen That's right. It's essentially

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Speaker 1: slave labor here everyone. She is a tyrant. I know

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Speaker 1: you think she's all bloody Mary Poppins and love and

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Speaker 1: light and Jesus and unicorns. It's a fucking ruse. She's

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Speaker 1: a beast. She works me tirelessly and I had two

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Speaker 1: days off. I was in Brisbane and you'd think when

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Speaker 1: you go to Brisbane. Sorry, Melissa, I'll come to you. You

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Speaker 1: think when you would go to Brisbane you might get

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Speaker 1: sunshine and my torrential rain for two days. But enough

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Speaker 1: about me. Shout out to all of our friends and

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Speaker 1: listeners and relatives who are doing it hard at the

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Speaker 1: moment in the middle of the floods. Love and hugs

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Speaker 1: to you. It's terrible what's going on, but hopefully there's

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Speaker 1: an end to it. So Melissa, Hi, Hello, how did

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Speaker 1: your date with doctor Alex go?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Alex and I and those of you who know

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Speaker 1: Dr Alex Koeman is a neurosurgeon. He's been on the

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Speaker 1: show a bunch, and he and I went on a

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Speaker 1: date to the Brisbane Entertainment Center. Not really a date,

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Speaker 1: just two dudes hanging out watching Professor Brian Cox talk

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Speaker 1: about astronomy and cosmology in the fucking universe. And it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say Melissa and Charlie who will say lo

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Speaker 1: to in a moment, I was the dumbest person in

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Speaker 1: the room. I know, fuck all about the universe, fuck

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Speaker 1: all about black holes. And if I'm being honest, I

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Speaker 1: probably came away more confused than in life.

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Speaker 2: Were you just wanting then, not in your head pretending

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Speaker 2: that you understood what was happening.

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Speaker 1: I just had my shoulders shrugged. I had this emoji

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Speaker 1: for two hours. You know everyone the hands in the air,

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Speaker 1: shoulder shrugging. That was essentially I was the human form

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Speaker 1: of that. Charlie Morley speaking of big deals, Charlie Morley

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Speaker 1: is a big deal, high mate, Yeah, very good. Do

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Speaker 1: you know obviously British show. I guess you know who

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Speaker 1: Professor Brian Cox is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a big deal here. Well it's a big

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Speaker 2: deal everywhere, isn't he But yeah, he's very proud of him.

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Speaker 1: He's a gun. I was sitting around, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: apart from the stuff that he shares, which is I

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Speaker 1: was going to say literally mind blowing, it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: metaphorically mind blowing, because if it was literally mind blowing,

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Speaker 1: that'd be a fucking messy event. But I was sitting

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Speaker 1: around thinking, how do thousands and how does a dude

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Speaker 1: from the other side of the world in Brisbane get

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Speaker 1: I think it was three and a half or four

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Speaker 1: thousand people, and that's not the biggest And he did

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Speaker 1: in another one earlier in the day. Thousands of people

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Speaker 1: show up. You know you're going okay when you can

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he's smashing it. Yeah, And you know he's

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Speaker 2: used to this stage stuff because he was in a

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Speaker 2: moderately successful band, British like pop band, which is nice.

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Speaker 2: He was like keyboard player. I can't remember the band was,

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Speaker 2: but I swear a keyboard player. And then no one

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Speaker 2: hears from him for like two decades. He comes back.

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Speaker 2: He's a bloody PhD doctor and has got this amazing

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Speaker 2: way of describing fucking black holes. And it's like, wait,

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Speaker 2: I thought you were the guy playing background keys on

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Speaker 2: that pop number.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I think they had two hits I use

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Speaker 1: that term reservedly, but too Yeah, and that's right, And

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Speaker 1: he comes back a couple of decades later as a

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Speaker 1: professor of particle physics and quantum this and that.

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Speaker 2: But jokes aside, I do think that is one of

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Speaker 2: his I do think there's ways so good because he

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Speaker 2: knows how to work a crowd. You know, he's got

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Speaker 2: stage presence, like in the clothes he wears. You know,

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Speaker 2: he never seem in a suit. He's always kind of

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Speaker 2: dressed normally. And he's got a way of connecting. And

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Speaker 2: also he seems really I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 2: but he seems like he makes one feel like the

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Speaker 2: most intelligent person in the room. He doesn't feel like

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Speaker 2: he kind of makes you feel stupid. You tell me,

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Speaker 2: how was it when you were around him?

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Speaker 1: Well, I am stupid, so no it was. Look honestly

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Speaker 1: for me, it's not my area at all. So but

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the the night. I learned some stuff,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of it was high level. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: he has a way like he's very this is not

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Speaker 1: the right word, but it's kind of this what he's

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Speaker 1: kind of got this gentle nature, like this very calm

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Speaker 1: very regulated. You know, there's no massive peaks and troughs,

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Speaker 1: and he's not theatrical, but he has a presence and

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Speaker 1: I mean literally is walking up and back on a

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Speaker 1: bloody one hundred foot stage in this enormous arena, and

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Speaker 1: he looked right at home. And what's that dude's name.

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Speaker 1: There's a comedian is it Robin Ince or something?

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Speaker 2: Oh, who works with Ricky gervaslot, you have an open

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Speaker 2: for Ricky?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he he shares the mage with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yes, So they bounce off each other. So he

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Speaker 1: comes out every I don't know, twenty or thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: and goes, who's fucking confused? We're all like me, who

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Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going on me? So what's funny and

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Speaker 1: quite clever I think is that Brian comes out and

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Speaker 1: talks about all this high level cosmology and science and

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Speaker 1: research and you know stuff, and then he comes out

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Speaker 1: as almost to release the pressure, like the elephant in

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Speaker 1: the room, to talk about you know, if you don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly what's going on, that's all right, you're probably

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Speaker 1: in the majority anyway, Enough about.

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Speaker 2: Him, And yet he's also super clever, Yes, that guy

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Speaker 2: right in super clever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can tell that there's there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of comedians. There are a few that aren't, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of comedians are actually highly intelligent because they

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Speaker 1: have to understand human behavior and psychology and read rooms

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Speaker 1: and be situationally aware and socially aware. And you know

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Speaker 1: it takes to make to stand up there and look

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Speaker 1: that goofy and clumsy and funny. Takes a high level

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Speaker 1: of it. It's not what most people would think normal

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Speaker 1: like intellect, but there is a bit of intellect in it,

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Speaker 1: but there is a whole lot of intelligence that goes

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Speaker 1: into making that look as seamless and as normal and

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Speaker 1: as comfortable as they do. I mean, you get on

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Speaker 1: stage a lot and you present a lot, as do

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Speaker 1: I my job when I'm not doing this as corporate speaking,

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Speaker 1: how much because you know your stuff, right, you're a

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Speaker 1: obviously you've got a deep level of knowledge, vast experience,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, all that stuff. But then you've got

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Speaker 1: to get up there and share that with a group

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Speaker 1: and not be boring and be relatable and give them

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Speaker 1: ideas and thoughts and strategies that they can implement starting

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Speaker 1: tomorrow or today, and then be able to read the

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Speaker 1: room a bit and create connection and engagement and don't

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Speaker 1: fuck up. What's the mix between, Like, even if you

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Speaker 1: are a teacher, you're still on a level performing right totally.

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Speaker 2: I always tell people the best training ever did was

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Speaker 2: my acting training. That's the best training. More than the

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Speaker 2: seven years living in the Buddhist center, training with these

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Speaker 2: tibatan larmers and stuff.

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Speaker 1: That was great.

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Speaker 2: But the most important part is the acting training because

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Speaker 2: it's howpen to communicate an idea and I love it.

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Speaker 2: Going on stage. I have this weird thing where I'm nervous.

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Speaker 2: I might have nerves in my body before I go

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Speaker 2: on stage, but the moment I step on stage, I

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Speaker 2: just feel at home. I feel like there could be

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Speaker 2: one person or a thousand people. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: speaking to someone in my living room. So weirdly, I

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Speaker 2: sometimes you get nerves before I go on, but once

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Speaker 2: I'm on stage, it just feels like that's the place

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Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be. And also, when you're sharing lucid

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Speaker 2: dreaming stuff for a lot of time, if it's maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit like the science talks you went to,

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Speaker 2: you get this moment of sharing a truth, a fact

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Speaker 2: that many people have never heard before. So you're seeing

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Speaker 2: the revelation of truth live and you see people's faces

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Speaker 2: light up and you see they're kind of inner child

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Speaker 2: come out as they're like, fuck, you can be aware

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Speaker 2: in your dreams while you're still asleep, and you can

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Speaker 2: choose what to do. Oh my god, that's so cool.

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Speaker 2: And to witness that, you know, it's it's such a

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Speaker 2: kind of privilege, and it's so fun. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: never old. People say, oh, you know, be doing fifteen

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Speaker 2: years to get bored of teaching the same stuff, And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, it's always changing. But even in an

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Speaker 2: introductory talk where it's basically the same stuff I've been

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Speaker 2: doing fifteen years, it's never the same talk because it's

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Speaker 2: never the same audience. If you're doing the same talk,

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Speaker 2: you're doing it wrong, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: It should be always you're feeding off the audience. And

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Speaker 2: I always find the person the audience who I'm scared of,

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Speaker 2: the person who reminds me of my dad, or the

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Speaker 2: person who makes me think they're going to think this

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Speaker 2: is bullshit. I deliver everything to them. First five minutes.

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Speaker 2: I'm delivering it to them because I think if I can.

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Speaker 2: If I can get them one side, everyone else in

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Speaker 2: the room is with me.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had I did a gig. I don't

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Speaker 1: know when it was, but lots of times like that,

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Speaker 1: you would have had the same thing where you're getting

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Speaker 1: a sense from somebody that they fucking hate this and

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Speaker 1: they hate you, and they're only there. They're only There's

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Speaker 1: usually a dude, they're only there because their missus dragged

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Speaker 1: them along under suffering. And I'm like, fuck, why is

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Speaker 1: this guy here? You're fucking up my vibe? Right, I

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Speaker 1: had that not too long ago, and this guy just

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Speaker 1: arms crossed like his energy. I thought, this is how

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Speaker 1: dumb I am. I thought he I thought he was

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Speaker 1: hating me, right, And I thought anyway, at the end,

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Speaker 1: sure enough, he's standing and there's a few people wanting

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. He's standing in the line wanting

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. I'm like, all right, batten down

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Speaker 1: the hatches, harps. Here he goes, fucking I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna cop it. And then he comes up and he

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Speaker 1: shakes my hand. And he's a little bit vision impaired, right,

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Speaker 1: so he couldn't so I misread this whole thing. Was

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Speaker 1: he couldn't actually see me. And he goes, that was amazing.

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Speaker 1: He goes that, where else can I hear you? I'm like,

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Speaker 1: fucking hell, what do I know? I'm a moron. I'm

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Speaker 1: doing a PhD in self awareness and I've got fucking

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Speaker 1: nun but.

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Speaker 2: Ray I love that. I know we want to get

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Speaker 2: to the lucid dreaming stuff, but I've just got a

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Speaker 2: story to share. I think like that, and it's maybe

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Speaker 2: he it's got some lucid dream in it. So I'm

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Speaker 2: doing this bit where I'm teaching a work shore about

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Speaker 2: the Buddhist cent zone. This is about like, are you

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Speaker 2: about twelve or thirteen years I'd only just started teach you.

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Speaker 2: I know that. So in a couple of years in

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Speaker 2: I was twenty five years old or you know that

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Speaker 2: kind of age. And the lucid dreaming bit I knew

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Speaker 2: quite well. But the BUDDHISTI bit where I had to

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Speaker 2: talk about t betan Buddhism, I always felt a little

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Speaker 2: bit insecure about it. You know, I wasn't quite sure

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Speaker 2: that I knew what I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know Buddhist. You know Buddhist done say fuck right,

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Speaker 1: So you're making a mistake already.

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Speaker 2: Damn it. Oh God, Sorry Buddha.

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Speaker 1: Sorry Buddha, that's the name of the episode.

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Speaker 2: Me.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, Buddha.

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Speaker 2: Someone recently asked me to sum up Buddhism in as

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Speaker 2: short a phrase I could, and I said, don't be

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Speaker 2: a dick, be kind to people, and train your mind.

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Speaker 2: That's Buddhism. I love that anyway. So I'm doing this bit.

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Speaker 2: I'm giving a talk about all the complex of bet

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Speaker 2: and BUDDHISTI stuff, and there's this woman in the back row.

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Speaker 2: So she's quite far away, and my you know, my

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Speaker 2: eyesight isn't that good. But she's in the back row,

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Speaker 2: and every time I say anything relevant or like I

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Speaker 2: make a joke or I do the kind of punchlines

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Speaker 2: to whatever I'm talking about, she kind of scowls. Her

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Speaker 2: face kind of drops, she scowls at me, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck? You know, what's up with her? And

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Speaker 2: every time I say something else she scowls. And then

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Speaker 2: I started to create this whole story in my mind.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I bet she's some like really advanced

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Speaker 2: Buddhist and she knows that I don't know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about. Maybe she knows my teacher and she's been

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Speaker 2: sent here to spy on me. I mean, my mind,

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Speaker 2: just racing, racing, racing, doesn't matter that the other you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty people in the room were all nodding and liking it,

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Speaker 2: but that one person who seemed to be scowling just

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Speaker 2: like you. The break comes. She makes a bee line

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Speaker 2: over to me, and I'm thinking, oh God, here it comes.

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Speaker 2: She's gonna tell me she hated it as soon as

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Speaker 2: she comes close. I used to work with with people

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Speaker 2: who had strokes in hospital as part of this voluntary

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Speaker 2: As soon as she came close, I knew it. There's

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Speaker 2: a very certain look to the face when someone's had

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Speaker 2: a right hemisphere stroke, where it drops and droops. And

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Speaker 2: she broke into this lopsided smile. It was a smile,

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Speaker 2: not a grimace. And she told me how much she

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Speaker 2: enjoyed it. The reason she was doing what I thought

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Speaker 2: was the grimace every time I made a salient point,

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Speaker 2: because she was smiling, not grimacing. Dude, I mean another

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Speaker 2: quote from Buddha. With our minds we make the world.

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Speaker 2: I had created a whole world based on my own insecurity,

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Speaker 2: thinking this woman was hating what I was talking about.

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Speaker 2: In fact, she'd had a stroke and was smiling, not scowling.

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Speaker 2: You know, that stayed in my mind for ten years.

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Speaker 2: Could we never know? That? We never know?

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Speaker 1: It is so true, mate, like the way that we

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Speaker 1: are constantly, unintentionally and unknowingly creating our own world or

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Speaker 1: our own version of the world. And part of you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, one of the fascinations is, you know, sitting

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Speaker 1: with four other people at a table in a conversation

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Speaker 1: and then having a moment where you go, although we're

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Speaker 1: in the same conversation and we're at the same table

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Speaker 1: in the same time, none of us are having the

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Speaker 1: same experience, right, none of us are in the same reality.

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Speaker 1: We're just in the same location. And then when you

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Speaker 1: separate location and moment in time and situation and circumstance

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Speaker 1: and environment and table and chairs to the individual experience

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Speaker 1: of each of those you know, amazing creatures sitting at

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Speaker 1: that table in that time, it's like, oh wow, this

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Speaker 1: because you start to see another world, you know, that

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Speaker 1: the non physical, which is I mean that's for me

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Speaker 1: and obviously for you, that's the shit. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: where it happens. Now before I start questioning you like

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Speaker 1: a bloody boring interviewer, tell us give us the Charlie

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Speaker 1: Morley story. Did you when you were three go have

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Speaker 1: an epiphany? I want to be the Dalai Lama? What

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Speaker 1: did you?

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Speaker 2: Give us?

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Speaker 1: A bit of backstory before we get into your areas

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Speaker 1: of expertise.

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Speaker 2: I was quite young, actually I remember, and this is

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Speaker 2: I thought it might be in a false memory, but

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Speaker 2: my dad confirmed it for few years ago when I

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Speaker 2: was eleven, So if my twelfth birthday, I asked my

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Speaker 2: dad for this thing called a Nova Dreamer, which is

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Speaker 2: like this electronic sleep mask that you strapped to your

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Speaker 2: face and it flashes red lights that come into your

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Speaker 2: eyes while you're dreaming, and it's supposed to give you

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Speaker 2: lucid dreams. And I do remember this. With the Sunday

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Speaker 2: Times newspaper, there was like this gadget magazine, you know,

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Speaker 2: Male Order Gadget, and it was in there, and I

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Speaker 2: remember saying to my dad, Oh, this, this mask can

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Speaker 2: give you those dreams I have, you know, those dreams

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Speaker 2: where I know I'm dreaming and I can control it,

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Speaker 2: and this mask will give you more. So that we

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Speaker 2: know happened. Then I don't know what happened. I go

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Speaker 2: back to being an eleven year old, and I never

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Speaker 2: got the novera dreamer. But then when I'm about sixteen, fifteen, sixteen,

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Speaker 2: I started getting interested, as many young people do at

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Speaker 2: that age, you know, the mind and psychedelics, and I

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Speaker 2: was smoking loads of weed and like aliens and meditation,

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Speaker 2: but meditating seemed a bit boring and hard. But then

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Speaker 2: lucid dreaming. I was like, oh, yeah, that thing I

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Speaker 2: used to do as a kid. Because you can train yourself.

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Speaker 2: So I read loads of books and kind of taught

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Speaker 2: myself how to do it again properly. I could train

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Speaker 2: myself to wake up in the dream. So I'm still

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Speaker 2: physically asleep, but in my mind I've kind of become conscious,

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Speaker 2: And then I could choose whatever I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: in the dream. So of course, at fifteen, you know

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Speaker 2: what I did. I would just like loads of sex

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Speaker 2: and skateboarding. I'd be like, you know, this is show

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Speaker 2: age now, like pamarr Anderson come to me. Then Pammy

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Speaker 2: would appear in full Baywatch, you know, late nineties Baywatch form,

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Speaker 2: and uh, you know, I do what I wasn't doing

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Speaker 2: a lot of in the waking state. But also I

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Speaker 2: did do lots of skateboarding, and weirdly, you're like this

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Speaker 2: because the sports science fit they have now proven that

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Speaker 2: if you practice sports or athletic discipline in the lucid dream,

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Speaker 2: you're actually training the neural pathways and you can have

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Speaker 2: improved performance in the waking state. So I did get

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Speaker 2: pretty good at skateboarding. The other thing not so much.

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Speaker 2: But skateboarding I get into like that, just kind of

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Speaker 2: hedonistic stuff. Then then it gets a bit heavy. The

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Speaker 2: drugs reached a peak and I had this full on

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Speaker 2: like I had a drugs overdose, had this full on

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Speaker 2: near death experience the Tunnel of Light, and then I

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Speaker 2: had these really bad nightmares after that. You know, people

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Speaker 2: always have NDEs and then you see angels and stuff.

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Speaker 2: I didn't. I was like proper traumatic, and I had

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Speaker 2: these terrible nightmares. But I used lucid dreaming this for

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Speaker 2: like the first time, not for set skateboarding, but to

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Speaker 2: cure the nightmares. I finally like there was always this

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Speaker 2: little this dwarf guy. I know it sounds a bit funny,

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Speaker 2: but this dwarf would appear and the dwarf represented death,

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Speaker 2: like and if he appeared the dream, he'd just look

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Speaker 2: at me like that nothing scary in that he'd just

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Speaker 2: appear and look at me, and that meant I was

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Speaker 2: still in the near death experience. I was still in

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Speaker 2: the drugs overdose. I hadn't I hadn't come out of

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Speaker 2: it kind of thing. And this happened, you know, for months,

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Speaker 2: like four or five months, I was having these nightmares,

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Speaker 2: and I'd been reading in these Lucid dreaming books. So

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Speaker 2: you could use Lucid dreaming to cure nightmares. But what

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Speaker 2: you had to do was not wake up from the nightmare.

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Speaker 2: You had to intentionally stay there. And all it said

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Speaker 2: was kind of face your fears, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean? So on kind of the fourth

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Speaker 2: or fifth attempt, I did manage to stay lucid in

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Speaker 2: the dream, but sorry become lucid. The dwarf guy appeared,

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Speaker 2: and this time I turned him and I went, I

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Speaker 2: know he's supposed to hug them and show them love

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Speaker 2: and stuff, but I was, you know, I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Then I went, Okay, I fucking get it. I get it.

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Speaker 2: But what I meant by I get it was like,

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Speaker 2: I get it, this is a nightmare, this is trauma.

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Speaker 2: I understand that this is a dream. I'm not really

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Speaker 2: back there. And the moment I said it, the dwarf,

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Speaker 2: who was obviously the kind of representation of the trauma,

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Speaker 2: his face changed and he went oh, and then like

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Speaker 2: a magician, he went like he didn't say it, but

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Speaker 2: he did the action of like tuda like that. And

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Speaker 2: then behind him were these theater curtains, red velvet theater

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Speaker 2: curtains that suddenly appeared and they opened, and behind them

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Speaker 2: was my seventeen year old's vision of paradise, Wow, which

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Speaker 2: was a big skate ramp, you know when there's really

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Speaker 2: big skateboard ramps, and on the top of the ramp

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Speaker 2: with these girls in bikinis smoking splits, spoken joints.

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Speaker 1: And then I woke up and cheering you on as

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Speaker 1: you did in nine hundred.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all of that. So my vision, well, I

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Speaker 2: now realized, was a vision of paradise. Now at the

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Speaker 2: time I didn't know. I just knew the nightmare stopped,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. I had

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Speaker 2: that lucid dream the nightmare stop. Now, like six years

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Speaker 2: of working with military veterans and stuff, it's so obvious

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Speaker 2: I had PTSD and that PTSD was manifesting recurring nightmare,

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Speaker 2: and by using lucid dreaming and by facing the fear,

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Speaker 2: by intentionally staying in the dream doing something empowering, I

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Speaker 2: was able to transform the trauma into a symbolic vision

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Speaker 2: of healing, which I know is a bit silly the

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Speaker 2: girls and bikinis and stuff, but still, that was a

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Speaker 2: seventeen year old symbolic vision of healing and whatever it was,

387
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Speaker 2: So yeah, then I really got into it. They ended

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Speaker 2: up living in a Buddhist center and trading with these

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Speaker 2: Buddhist guys and writing books and all that, and the

390
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Speaker 2: rest is history.

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Speaker 1: So interesting. So many people have these revelations and these

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Speaker 1: light bulb moments and these awakenings out of trauma, and

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Speaker 1: there's not I guess a lot, not a lot more

394
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Speaker 1: traumatic than a near death experience. Tell me a little bit,

395
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Speaker 1: like I want to hear your I don't know, just

396
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Speaker 1: your take on the intersection, the overlap, the connection of psychology, physiology,

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Speaker 1: spirituality and emotion. Like there's this synthesis, this exchange. It's

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Speaker 1: like all it's all interconnected. And so for you you

399
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 1: were having I mean, there was psychological stuff, emotional stuff,

400
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Speaker 1: physiological stuff, and a spiritual awakening or something whatever you

401
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Speaker 1: might want to call it. But in our culture in

402
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Speaker 1: Australia anyway, I'm sure in the UK all of those

403
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Speaker 1: things almost get treated or spoken about in different channels

404
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: or in isolation. But nothing's really nothing's really separate on

405
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Speaker 1: an experiential level for.

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Speaker 2: Us, completely completely, you know, the search for consciousness. Like

407
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 2: I read something an article or easy The headline was

408
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: why did consciousness appear on Earth? And I was like,

409
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Speaker 2: you think consciousness is limited to Earth? It's like, the

410
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 2: reason we can't find consciousness is because consciousness is the

411
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: base of all being. It's like we're not gonna be

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Speaker 2: able to find it because it is the isness. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is my crazy belief anyway. So this idea that

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Speaker 2: like the brain and consciousness separate, you know, this idea

415
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Speaker 2: that the idea that consciousness lives in the brain is

416
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 2: so fundamentally reductionist. It's like people who who's you know,

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00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 2: if music is playing from a radio and then I

418
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Speaker 2: switched the radio off, it would be childish for me

419
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Speaker 2: to say, oh, that means that the people playing the

420
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Speaker 2: music were inside the radio, or but I can prove

421
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Speaker 2: it because look, if I smash the radio, the music stops.

422
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: If you smash the radio and the music stops, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean the band, this tiny little band playing violin

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Speaker 2: or inside the radio, like we're not children. It means

425
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 2: the radio was a transmitter of something that made the

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Speaker 2: sound of the music. It's like that we're still at

427
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Speaker 2: this level, like the kind of this reductionist view of

428
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: brain and conscience is still held widely by many, many

429
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Speaker 2: people in the scientific community, let alone the wider community.

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Speaker 2: So that's my views on consciousness and the brain. As

431
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 2: far as lucid dreaming, and this might be quite a

432
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 2: cool way to kind of, you know, get into some

433
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 2: of the lucy dreaming stuff when you look at how

434
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 2: healing works in lucid dreaming, so there's the ability to

435
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: less of that psychological healing, but there is actually we

436
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 2: can go more woo woo into kind of physical healing

437
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 2: if you like. The kind of scientific view of how

438
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 2: psychological healing is occurring in the lucid dream is that

439
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: once you get lucid, the prefrontal cortex becomes activated, and

440
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: the prefrontal cortex isn't usually activated when you dream. That's

441
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 2: why you can dream your other people and dream of

442
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 2: dreaming your child if you're an adult, stuff, because your

443
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: sense of self, which seems to be linked to activation

444
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: of the prefrontal cortex, is greatly diminished once you've become lucid.

445
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 2: It makes complete sense the prefrontal cortex switches on because

446
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 2: you go, oh, I am having a lucid dream. My

447
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 2: sense of agency is allowing me to direct the dream, right.

448
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: And then they got this dude to fall asleep in

449
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 2: a brain scanner in Heidelberg University in twenty twelve and

450
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: they proved that that, yes, it is the prefrontal cortex

451
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: lighting up. They then discovered that once the prefrontal cortex

452
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: lights up, neuroplasticity becomes engaged. Now, neuroplastisity isn't engaged in

453
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: non lucid dreams because it requires this kind of prefrontal

454
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: activation of intention to down these pathways. But once you

455
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 2: become lucid, if in your lucid dream you choose to

456
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: practice martial arts training, for example, we've got studies that

457
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: show you get better at it in the waking state,

458
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: and we know that because I was in one of

459
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 2: these studies. Twenty five of us involved eighty one point

460
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: three percent of people who got lucid and trained a

461
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: specific kick sequence that we were told to do, got

462
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: better at that kick sequence in the waking state. Now,

463
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: I was one of the nineteen percent who didn't get

464
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: any better, which is kind of embarrassing because I did

465
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: get lucid and I did do the kick sequence, but

466
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,239
Speaker 2: who knows didn't work for me on that time, And

467
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: they're kind of So the sign of the explanation of

468
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 2: how healing is occurring in lucid dreaming is that once

469
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: you become lucid, if you integrate a trauma or face

470
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 2: a fear, or work with a phobia in the lucid

471
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: dream because neural pathways are being laid down at that time,

472
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: it leads to the neurological change, not just psychological change.

473
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 2: We can then be activated in the waking state. Right,

474
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: So that's their kind of description. But if you ask

475
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: the Buddhists why is healing to occurring in lucid dreaming,

476
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: they would completely different kind of explanation. They say that

477
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: in the lucid dream state, you have seven times the

478
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: power of mind. So once you become lucid, your mental

479
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 2: capacity or mental power is is like seven hundred percent

480
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: more powerful. So that's why if you do a healing

481
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 2: in the lucid dream, it's so powerful, Or that's why

482
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 2: if you face a fear in the lucid dream, it's

483
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 2: so powerful. Now could it be that they've actually come

484
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: to exactly the same conclusion they've seen that it's a

485
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: dependent requirement of prefrontal cortex activation that allow which comes

486
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 2: with lucidity, that allows these neural pathways to be laid down.

487
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: But they described it as, Oh, you just have seven

488
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: hundred percent more power. Could it be there explaining exactly

489
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: the same thing and it leads to exactly the same result,

490
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: which is that lucid dreaming is a great way to

491
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: treat trauma. But they're just describing in different not even

492
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: different languages, but just different ways of explaining exactly the

493
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: same phenomena. I mean, this is well known, right, This

494
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: is like Ken Wilber's theory of the integral philosophy, that

495
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: everyone's kind of talking the same language. But I think

496
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: sometimes that can get really lost in the noise of like, oh, yeah,

497
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 2: your God is my God, and this well maybe not,

498
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: maybe not, we don't know that for sure, but maybe

499
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: we could say your body is my body. Now you

500
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: have the same physiological makeup as I do. And whether

501
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: we call it chakras or GLAMs or points of awareness

502
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: or whatever, there are certain things you can do to

503
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: your body and I can do to my body which

504
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: will have the same results. Maybe it's something more more

505
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 2: body based.

506
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, super duper interesting. Okay, So here's my chicken and

507
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: egg moment. We've been exploring the chicken. Let's go back

508
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: to the egg for a moment, the metaphoric egg. What

509
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: is lucent dreaming because some people have never heard some

510
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: of my listeners have never heard that term, or they

511
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, so we can't. I probably

512
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: should have started there, but just give us your I.

513
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: Should have started there problem.

514
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: That's all right, give us your definition.

515
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: Well, my definition and the kind of you know, accepted

516
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: scientific definition is a dream in which you are actively

517
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: aware of the fact you're dreaming as the dream is happening.

518
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 2: So elucid dream is a dream where you have the

519
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: aha moment of self reflective awareness within the rem rapid

520
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: eie movement dreaming sleep stay. So basically you're not half

521
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: awake half asleep. You sound asleep dreaming away, but as

522
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: you are dreaming, part of the brain reactivates, allowing you

523
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: to have the experience of knowing you're dreaming as you're dreaming.

524
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: Once that happens, you can then direct the dreamer will

525
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: Why are we so what?

526
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: Why are we so shit at sleeping, Charlie? Why does

527
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: so many people talk to me about like we're fucking

528
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: terrible at it? Every second person I know doesn't sleep well.

529
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's genetics or luck or whatever,

530
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: but I sleep like I can have a fucking skinny

531
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: latte as I'm going to bed and I still sleep

532
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: like a champion. But why do so many people struggle?

533
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: Is it physiological, psychological, emotional, something else?

534
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: There's so I mean, I just just literally wrote a

535
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: whole book about this. But let me think of one

536
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: of the core reasons that might be the most interesting

537
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 2: thing to explore here if you haven't come across it.

538
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: There is a big argument to say that the reason

539
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: we have such poor sleep is due to the overactivation

540
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: of the sympathetic nervous system, crucially due to our breath rate.

541
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty, the average breath rate of Americans,

542
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: but I'm sure we can say if Europeans and other

543
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: people around the world was fifteen to twenty breaths a minute.

544
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: That's seen as a normal breath rate. That is incredibly

545
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: fricking fast. When I was born in the eighties, the

546
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 2: average American breath rate was seven point eight breaths a minute.

547
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: Our grandparents back in the nineteen thirties, the average American

548
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: breath rate was four point eight breaths a minute. We

549
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 2: are breathing seventy five percent faster than our grandparents were.

550
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: If you get a chart that shows the increase in

551
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: breath rate from the nineteen thirties to twenty twenty, and

552
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: you place another graph next to it showing the increase

553
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: of anxiety, depression, and autonomic nervous system disorders of the body,

554
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: which can be certain forms of diabetes, linked to certain

555
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: forms of obesity, definitely linked to anxiety and nervous conditions.

556
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: They go up at the same rate. So there's a

557
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: very strong argument to say that one of the reasons

558
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 2: we can't sleep is because we're breathing so fricking fast

559
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: for like twenty hours a day, for fifteen hours a

560
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: day that by the time we get to bed, we've

561
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: been in this accelerated pedal on by breathing so fast

562
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: that we can't take the accelerator pedal off. Any Time

563
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: you breathe at more than ten breaths a minute, you're

564
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: in mild sympathetic dominance. If you're breathing over fifteen breaths

565
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: a minute, you're in severe sympathetic dominance. So no wonder

566
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: when we try and go to sleep at night, we

567
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: can't get to sleep because we've had the accelerator pedal

568
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: of the fight or flight on all day. So one

569
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: of the things that I do in the workshops with

570
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: people with like really severe sleeping problems, Like a lot

571
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: of the veterans who are averaging like three hours sleep

572
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: a night, they've got all many of them have clinical PTSD.

573
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 2: We get them to slow their breathing down. We get

574
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: them to breathe at five breaths a minute, which is

575
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: about seventy five percent slower than usual. And if you

576
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: get someone to breathe at five breaths a minute for

577
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes before they go to bed, then you

578
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: put the brake pedal on the nervous system. So when

579
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: they get into bed, they don't need to try to

580
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: fall asleep. Sleep will happen naturally because sleep is a

581
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: natural phenomena that will occur, and that will occur in

582
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: the absence of stresses that plent it from occur. And

583
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: the major stressor is breathing too fast. So anyone listening

584
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: and say, give yourself twenty minutes a day of breathing

585
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: really freaking slowly. Well, it's actually a normal way to breathe,

586
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: but it will feel really freaking slowly.

587
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that breathing is the problem or the

588
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: symptom seems like the symptom of the problem. But I

589
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: guess it doesn't matter.

590
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't is that we're so stress and anxiously. Yeah?

591
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: Is the anxiety is the sympathetic nervous system over activation

592
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: stimulation that causes the rapid respiration. But either way, if

593
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: you want to on you yeah, yeah. If you control

594
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: the breathing, then you control the nervous system, so it

595
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: probably does.

596
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: The brain has the lungs on speed dial. The quickest

597
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: way to change your neurological state is through your breath

598
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: over the visual cortex. So you can have someone visually

599
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: watching a horror movie. If you get their breathing for

600
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: at least seven minutes, it keeps in at about five

601
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: six minutes. If their breathing rate is one of deep relaxations,

602
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: like five breaths a minute. The brain will prioritize the

603
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: messages from the lungs over the visual cortex. So even

604
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: if you're watching a horror movie, the brain will go, well,

605
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: the eyes are telling me it's pretty scary out there.

606
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: The lungs are telling me everything's fine. So I'm going

607
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: to go with the lungs because I trust the lungs

608
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: above everything else. I've got the fastest rate of communication

609
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: between the lungs. Yeah, I'm going to go for the lungs,

610
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: so it prioritizes the messages from the lungs.

611
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: That's super smart. The brain has got the lungs on speed.

612
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: Doll everyone that yeah is great. I love that saying.

613
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: And you know what else I love. I have never

614
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: and I've win only a thousand episodes in I've never

615
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: heard anyone talk about the acceleration or the the you know,

616
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: the increasing of breath rate over the last decades. I

617
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: did not know that.

618
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how and anyone listening, because often a

619
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: lot of people listen and they can't find the research.

620
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 2: Email me at dream yoga at live dot com and

621
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: I will send you the very boring studies from University

622
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: of Buffalo, New York State, going back to the nineteen twenties.

623
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: They're all obviously, you know, photocopies, but it's hard to

624
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: find that research. But it's in a very obscure book

625
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: by one of the guys who invented the Boutiqo method

626
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: of breathing. But it is all there. And even back

627
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety, breath rate was still as low as

628
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: twelve breaths a minute, ten to twelve. So you know,

629
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: something's happened. Something's happened to make us breathe really fast,

630
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: and it's obvious what's happened.

631
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: Right now, we definitely don't have enough time to go through.

632
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: I so want to get you back again another time

633
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: if you're up for that in a month or two.

634
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, mate, But so is your most

635
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: recent book wake Up to Sleep? Is that your most

636
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: recent one?

637
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one based in the World with veterans.

638
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, we'll talk about that in a moment. I

639
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: want to something that you said on something that I watched,

640
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: because I was going to say I'm an avid researcher,

641
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: which is total bullshit. Sometimes I turn up. Sometimes I

642
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: turn it. Don't tell anyone, Charlie. Sometimes I turn up

643
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: to a podcast and I've read about nine lines or

644
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: one paragraph. It depends on that. I started reading about

645
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: you and this is fucking fascinating. Then I listened to

646
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: a podcast. Then I'll watch some YouTube and I'm like, yeah,

647
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: this is cool, but I don't think we can fit

648
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: him into one show. But anyway, here's something that blew

649
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: my socks, my metaphoric socks. Of sixty eight percent, men

650
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: are sixty eight percent less likely to die of heart

651
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: disease if they regularly regularly nap. Unpack that grasshopper.

652
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're actually even more impressive studies. But I

653
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: put that one because it's Harvard, and everyone takes the

654
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,959
Speaker 2: word of Harvard, and that's good because they have good

655
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: research grants. Yeah, women it was like thirty something. Sorry

656
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: for all people average out about thirty something, but men

657
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: specifically it was like sixty eight percent. So this was

658
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: habitual nappers. So this is people nappingly three or four

659
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: times a week for between twenty minutes to an hour

660
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: with napping to keep napping with zero contraindications. From a

661
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: medical point of view, naps need to apply two golden

662
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: rules one hour or less and the nap needs to

663
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: finish six hours before your intended bedtime. One hour or

664
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: less thing because once you get over an hour, especially

665
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: once you start approach ninety minutes, you're gonna then drop

666
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: into deep sleep, which is going to affect your circadian

667
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: rhythms and make it maybe difficult to sleep at night,

668
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So twenty minutes to an hour, and

669
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: the reason you don't want it to be within six

670
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: hours of your intended bedtime is a thing called sleep pressure,

671
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: which is basically the kind of subjective experience of tiredness.

672
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: Certain chemical that builds up in the brain takes about

673
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: six hours to build up, which is interestingly why you

674
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: often feel six hours after you woke up in the

675
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: morning a little dip, because that's how long it takes

676
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: sleep forsure to build that. So habitual nappers twenty minutes

677
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: to an hour three to four times a week, massive

678
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: drop in heart disease. They did a similar study in

679
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: Switzerland where they got randomly selected members of the population.

680
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: It was like three or four thousand people. It's a

681
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: big study, and again they found direct impact linking nap

682
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: frequency to longevity. Even people who had one nap a

683
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: week lived longer than those who did not, But people

684
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: who were getting like three or four naps a week,

685
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: so kind of habitual nappers, they lived longer. And they

686
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: said they were living longer not only because of what

687
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: Harvard said with the reduction heart disease, which is the

688
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: biggest killer in the Western world, but also reduction strokes,

689
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: so really good for strokes and really good for heart disease.

690
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: Very amazing. How did the work with the veterans with

691
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: PTSD about.

692
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: That was really interesting. That came about because a guy

693
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: called Keith McKenzie, who was a parachute regiment veteran. He

694
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 2: turned up at this Lucid dreaming retreat. I was doing

695
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: a place called Holy Isle, which is like a full on,

696
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: like you know, Buddhist Lucid dreaming retreat, right, and this

697
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: veteran turns up and he's got serious nightmares. He's the

698
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: first veteran I've ever met. You know, I don't really

699
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: know any a part of my grandparents, I guess. And yeah,

700
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 2: in the four day retreat he had this big breakthrough

701
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: in his nightmare stopped and then he wrote this kind

702
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: of testimonial thing, saying I colled more of my nightmares

703
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: in four days than four years of therapy, and that

704
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: ended up on my website for years and stuff like that.

705
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: But he kind of dropped off the scene. Then a

706
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: few years later he comes back to me, emails me

707
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: and says, oh, I become a mindfulness teacher specializing in

708
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: teaching meditation to veterans and military people with PTSD, and

709
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: now I'm running these retreats. Will you come and teach

710
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: the lucid dreaming that you taught me on the retreat?

711
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: And I wasn't really that sure about it, you know, veterans.

712
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: I knew it was very difficul to get into the

713
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: veterans scene. If you're not a veteran, you know, there

714
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: are big trust issues. Definitely think you're a therapist or

715
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: a doctor. But he made the point. He was like, yeah,

716
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: but Charlie, you're not a therapist, you're not a doctor,

717
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 2: and you're not a veteran either, but you're coming in

718
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 2: as my guest, you know. So he kind of brought

719
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: me into this scene. Anyway. We did these workshops and

720
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: these retreats, and it seemed to work for other veterans. Too,

721
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: but it didn't work for all of them. The lucid

722
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: dreaming worked for some of them, maybe like five out

723
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 2: the twenty on the retreat, and the other fifteen they

724
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: seem to really benefit from the other stuff that he

725
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 2: was offering on the retreat, which was breath work, deeprelaxation, yoga, nidra,

726
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: physical yoga, and mindfulness practices. And I remember at that

727
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 2: time thinking, oh, if I could find a way of

728
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: training myself getting teacher qualifications in the aforementioned breath work, yoga, nidra,

729
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: deep relaxation, and mindfulness to add to the lucid dreaming,

730
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: then I would have some a very powerful offering. So

731
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: I spent the next five years basically doing that. I

732
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: went to America and got this research grant and study

733
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: with all the breath people over there, this kind of

734
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: Winston Churchill Fellowship thing. It's this kind of grant, and

735
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: then yeah, did the teacher training, and then started writing

736
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: the book. And then now it's been about seven years later,

737
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: and the work with the veterans is, yeah, maybe, like

738
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: I don't know, a solid quarter of the work I do,

739
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: maybe even half of the work that I do. We

740
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: never charge veterans. I always make sure the funding comes

741
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: from other sources, so the veterans will never pay for

742
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: the teachings. They'll never kind of have to pay for

743
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: a workshop. And we did a scientific study about a

744
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: year ago which got absolutely audacious results, results that were

745
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: so outrageous the scientists thought there was a problem with

746
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: the data collection. So we did this about a year ago.

747
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: We had fifty five people, all of whom had PTSD.

748
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: So to get onto this study with ions Institute of

749
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: Petics Science is this big scientific organization in America, you

750
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: had to have PTSD, so one hundred percent PTSD in

751
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: the group. We check their PTSD scores, which is a

752
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: way of kind of finding the level of someone's PTSD.

753
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: Before then, we had one week where I had to

754
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: teach them lucid dreaming and they had to try and

755
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: have a lucid dream, and in the lucid dream engage

756
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: a healing what do we call it healing aspiration or

757
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: something basically had to face their fear or walk fearlessly

758
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: towards the nightmare or transform the nightmare, you know, something

759
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: kind of healing in the lucid dream. Then the end

760
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 2: of the week, we took their PTSD scores again. Now,

761
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: a lot of them had a lucid dream in that week,

762
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: like seventy percent, which is really high you would not expect,

763
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: especially with PTSD. I thought, maybe we just need to

764
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: help them get asleep for the week. But they did

765
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 2: manage to get lucid a lot of them. And by

766
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: the end of the week, when we check PTSD scores again,

767
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: the average PTSD score had dropped so low it was

768
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: beneath the PTSD threshold and in fact, thirty of the

769
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: fifty five people no longer classified as having PTSD. So

770
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: they assume there's a data collection problem, so they double

771
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: checked the data. Then they're like, Charlie, we need to

772
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: triple check because this isn't making sense. So they triple

773
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: check and think, Okay, we think the data sound but

774
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: we think it might be they didn't. They thought it

775
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: might have been a kind of a group thing that

776
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: because we were a group all gathered together for a week,

777
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: because I was there kind of geeing them up and

778
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: be like, come on, you can do it, you can

779
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: do it, that it wasn't going to last, and that

780
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: their PTSD school would rise within a week. So they

781
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: wanted to do a one month follow up study. When

782
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: they did the one month follow up study, the PTSD

783
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: school was actually one point below what it was before,

784
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: So they then had to conclude that, yeah, I mean,

785
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 2: we knew that lucid dreaming was one of the most

786
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: powerful modalities for working with PTSD nightmares, of course, because

787
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: if you in the nightmare you can transform it. What

788
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: hadn't been done was actually looking at PTSD scores in

789
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 2: the waking state. You have such a powerful integration in

790
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 2: a dream that had actually changed your trauma triggers in

791
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: the daytime, and we proved it did. And that research

792
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: will be coming out soon in the Journal of Trauma

793
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: and Psychology or something I can't remember, but email me

794
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 2: and I can send that anyone who's introd and crucially,

795
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: in January twenty twenty three, we are running the same study,

796
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: this time not just fifty people, but one hundred people.

797
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: Because the results were so good, we got funding to

798
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: do it again. So if you have clinical PTSD, if

799
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: you know someone who is currently working with PTSD, and

800
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 2: if they are free for a week in January and

801
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: want to join us in this study, then we hope

802
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: to get similar results. This is a blind controlled study,

803
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: so fifty of the one hundred people will not be

804
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: on the study. They'll have to spend the week I

805
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: don't know, just not trying not to lose a dream

806
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 2: for a week, which I thought was I was like, wait,

807
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: so there's going to be fifty people who've got PTSD

808
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: and we're going to say, oh, sorry dude, but you

809
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: don't get the program. That's bullshit. So I said I

810
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 2: would only do it if the fifty people who are

811
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: the control group get exactly the same workshop one month later.

812
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: We won't be collecting the data, but we'll make sure

813
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: that everyone who applies, you know, gets the workshop, whether

814
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: you're part of the test group or not.

815
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the downside of rigorous research. You've got to

816
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: have a control that don't get the magic pill. Yeah.

817
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: I know this question is like me saying to you,

818
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: can you just quickly explain the Bible in three sentences

819
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: or whatever? But could you just so anyone who's listening going,

820
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: I want to lucid dream. I know that there's not

821
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: a one minute kind of tutorial on how to, but

822
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: people who including me, like, I'm I want to I

823
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: want to go, I want to do it. I want

824
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: to I want to try how do I go from

825
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: I've got no idea to now I'm lucid dreaming. What

826
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: what's the pathway?

827
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean obviously it's a long pathway and books

828
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: about this and blah blah blah. But I've also got

829
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: something called the four d's, which I always use on

830
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: podcast is. In a few minutes, I can sum this

831
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: all up for you. Yea. The first D dream recall

832
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: you train yourself to remember your dreams. First thing you

833
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: need to know. Everybody dreams. When people say I don't dream, well,

834
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: that means I don't remember my dreams. There's no way

835
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: to stop the human brain from dreaming because it is

836
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: so closely linked to our survival mechanism. So everyone's dreaming

837
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 2: every night, so whether you remember or not, so first

838
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: thing to know as you are dreaming. Second, try and remember.

839
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: You know, people say, oh, I say you know, when

840
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 2: did you last try and remember your dreams? And they're like, oh,

841
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: but I didn't think I dreamt, so of course I

842
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 2: haven't tried to remember. So essentially, tonight, sit on your

843
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 2: bed and before you go to sleep, tell yourself tonight,

844
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to remember my dream. Set a really strong intention.

845
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: We're going I go one step further. As you're falling

846
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: asleep tonight, and you pass through what's called the hypnagogic state,

847
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: which is a natural state of hypnosis where we know

848
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: the brain goes into exactly the same state. It's clinical hypnosis,

849
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 2: deep ouf in theater, very suggestible state. Be reciting over

850
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: and over again as you fall asleep tonight, tonight, I

851
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: remember my dreams. I have excellent dream recall. So you're

852
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: basically doing a self hypnosis technique as you fall asleep.

853
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: If you want to do it the BUDDHISTI way, you'll

854
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 2: do it twenty one times and all this kind of stuff.

855
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: But whatever, fall asleep few minutes saying over and over again, tonight,

856
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: I remember my dreams. I have excellent dream recallond D

857
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 2: dream diaries write down your dreams in some way. We're

858
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: not writing down our dreams to interpret them. If you're

859
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: into that, that's great, fine, beautiful, but that is not

860
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: what we're using it for lucid dreaming. The reason we

861
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: write down our dreams for lucid dreaming is to solidify

862
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 2: the memory of an unconscious process into the conscious mind.

863
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: So by writing it down, we're taking something which is

864
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: usually unconscious and downloading it consciously into the page. This

865
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: helps us remember it, and we want to remember our

866
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: dreams because elucid dream is based on knowing your dreams

867
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: so well that you know your dreams when you're in them.

868
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: So let's say after a week of writing down your dreams,

869
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: at the end of the week, you flick through your

870
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: dream diary or put it on your phone, whatever, and

871
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: you start to see patterns. You might be like, oh, yeah, look,

872
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: I always dream about being back in school, or I

873
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: always have that dream about that you know, the bully

874
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: from school, or I always dream about being naked and public,

875
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: whatever it is. You might see these patterns emerging, and

876
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: that moves us to our third d dream signs. So

877
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: a dream sign is any part of the dream that

878
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: can indicate to you that you're dreaming. So if you're

879
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: dreaming you're just at work and the office and stuff

880
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 2: like that, probably no dream signs. But if you're dreaming

881
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: of your dead grandma, or you're dreaming you're in a

882
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: country you don't live, or you're dreaming you're in the

883
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: ancient pyramids or something, then those are dream signs things

884
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: that can indicate the dream. So by writing down your dreams.

885
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: You start to spot your dream signs. You start to see, oh,

886
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 2: I always dream about that, dream about that, dream about that.

887
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 2: Then before bed you make triggers. You tell yourself, well,

888
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: if tonight I dream sorry, If tonight, between now and breakfast,

889
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: I find myself naked in public, then I must be dreaming.

890
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: Or if now, between now and breakfast I see my

891
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: dead grandma, I've got to be dreaming. It sounds too

892
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 2: simple to be true, but it uses a brain called

893
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 2: prospective memory. Part of the brain that deals with prospective memory,

894
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: and that's really deeply embedded into our brain because it's

895
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 2: a survival part of memory. You know, if we could

896
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: remember that the next time I see that apple, I

897
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: will eat it because it help me survive through the winter.

898
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: And the next time I see that mushroom, I won't

899
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 2: eat it because it poisoned my mate and killed him.

900
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: We were more likely to survive. So prospective memory is

901
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: so deeply embedded in the brain it can be activated

902
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 2: during sleep. So you basically use that part of the brain.

903
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: Little brain hack. You tell yourself the next time I

904
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 2: see this, I will know that I'm dreaming, And that's

905
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: your third d And then The final one is dream planning. Basically,

906
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: decide what you want to do if you want to

907
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: have a lucid dream tonight. The best way of going

908
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 2: about it is not really the first three d's. It's

909
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: going to sleep thinking Wow, imagine if tonight I could

910
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: cure my PTSD. Or imagine if tonight I could meet

911
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: my inner child and integrate my child to trauma. Or

912
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: imagine if tonight I could do my spiritual practice in

913
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: the dream. Or imagine if tonight I could practice my

914
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: martial arts to get the edge on the fight I've

915
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: got tomorrow. You know, if you've got a really good

916
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: reason to have a lucid dream, the why is more

917
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: important than the how. So have a really good reason, why,

918
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 2: what would you do break? If you've got lucid tonight,

919
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: all the things you do, will it be calling for

920
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: Patty or doing your spiritual practice?

921
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: It would be what would I do? Oh? I think

922
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to heal some of my fucking injuries that

923
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: come out of forty years of lifting heavy things. I

924
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: think I might start to open the healing gate and

925
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: see what I.

926
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: Call mate healing. Lucid dreaming is serious. They don't know

927
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: how it works. And they just say it's the placebo.

928
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 2: But anyone who says just before the placebo does not

929
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: understand how powerful the placebo is. Right, Well, so whatever

930
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: it is you have, Yeah, people have reported healing I've done,

931
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: like torn scapular What else did I do? Not my

932
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: nose or ears? I had an ear infection and did

933
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: this healing in the lucy dream and then I woke

934
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: up and all this ear wax was coming out of

935
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: my ear. I mean, it's a bit gross, but it

936
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: showed that what I did in the lu room led

937
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: to a physical response. I mean it's matrix style.

938
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 3: Dude.

939
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: When you get into this, you're like, I don't know

940
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 2: how it works.

941
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: But it works, and that's one of the beauty. So

942
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of Harvard, we had professor Jeffrey Reddicker

943
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: from Harvard Medical School and he's a fucking genius. By

944
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: the way, go and have a coffee with him. I

945
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: wish I lived over there. He he specializes in placebo

946
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: and no cibo kind of treatment. Dude, you would love him.

947
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: You would love with him.

948
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done one with him. I'll check that out.

949
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: Listen to that.

950
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's brilliant. He's brilliant, and he was a he

951
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: was a you know, staunch evidence based scientist place ebos

952
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: it's not a thing, it's not a thing. And all

953
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: he kept getting for some reason, people sending him kind

954
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: of these stories about cases of people who had literally

955
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: incurable things that got cured and not one or two.

956
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: But so he kind of went, you know what. I

957
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: think he spent a decade knocking them back or ignoring it,

958
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: and when I'm going to look at five cases or something,

959
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: and all of them proved to be completely legit, and

960
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: then he went, fuck this, and now he's now that's

961
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of the forefront of his research. I think the

962
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: thing is that we still don't you know, there's a

963
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: couple of things. One, we don't obviously understand the potential

964
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 1: of the mind and the body to heal itself via

965
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, via the mind. But also, you know, we

966
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: live in you kind of straddle both. You straddle the

967
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: evidence based scientific and so do I to an extent,

968
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, but also the spiritual and the philosophical and

969
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the problems with science and scientists,

970
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: and I mean this in a loving way because I

971
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: am one, but is that if we can't explain it.

972
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: We think it's not true, whereas I just go, I

973
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: believe it. I don't know how it works, but I'm

974
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: okay with that, Just like I can pick up my

975
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: iPhone and know that if you gave me your phone

976
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: number when we finish this, I can ring you when

977
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: we can chat again. And I don't know how the

978
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,479
Speaker 1: fuck that works, but I just know that that thing

979
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 1: has the capacity to allow me to do this other

980
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: amazing thing. Just like I don't know how self healing works.

981
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: I don't understand the mechanisms. Neither does anyone, Otherwise there'd

982
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: be more on it. But you know that I think

983
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: we get our doubt and our which is not to

984
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: say we be should be naiven, gullible, But I one

985
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: hundred percent believe that there.

986
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 3: Is a huge capacity for self healing mind, body, emotion,

987
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: spirit that we don't understand, and because we don't understand.

988
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: It, it scares us, and so we call it bullshit.

989
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: Whereas I would rather just go, look, I don't know,

990
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I personally think you know

991
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: this is possible. I don't know why or how, but

992
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: I don't I don't need to understand it for it

993
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: to be fucking real. Just because I don't understand it

994
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm a dickhead, doesn't mean that, oh with Craig Harper

995
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: or Charlie Morley doesn't understand the mechanism of thing. It

996
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that we can't believe in it or that

997
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: we can't you know. I mean literally, faith is believing

998
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: in shit you can't prove. And so many people live

999
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: a faith based life because if you have evidence, now

1000
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: you'd have knowledge, which makes your need for faith redundant.

1001
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 2: You know, dude, one d per agree with what you're saying.

1002
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: Have you come across a Dr David Hamilton? No, of

1003
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: course that guy is a mate. Am on him, be

1004
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: so good on your podcast. Scottish guy, he used to

1005
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: make drugs. He used to work for Glatzo smith Kline.

1006
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: He was the guy who was like a chemical biology

1007
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: of chemical I can't remember what it's PhD is. But

1008
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: he used to make drugs right and the reason he

1009
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 2: quit was because he was seeing the Percebo effect getting

1010
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: what usually gets maybe thirty percent forty percent. There was

1011
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: one trial they were doing on cancer drugs where it

1012
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: hit over fifty percent in favor of the pacebo and

1013
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: he was looking at the side effects as cancer drug

1014
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: and was like, if you can get fifty percent of

1015
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: people with the same amount of healing with no side effects,

1016
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: what am I doing making these drugs? And he left

1017
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: and he dedicated his life so write in these books

1018
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: describing how the Peraceibo effect works. And he's got a

1019
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: great way of like, I think you just get on

1020
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: with him. He's a he's a fun guy. He's got

1021
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: a great sense of humor, and he's got a really

1022
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: good way of explaining how kind of placebo healing works.

1023
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to drop your name, dude, and I'll

1024
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: just go to Charlie and I best is And he

1025
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: said to hit you up to them. Great, Melissa, you've

1026
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: already written that down. Yes, I'll have, fortunately for me

1027
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: and sadly for you. You're really fucking brilliant and you

1028
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: have to come back. But so Charlie's book most recently,

1029
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: he's got a bunch of books he's written for and

1030
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: they've been published all over the world and multiple languages.

1031
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: But his most recent one is Wake Up to Sleep,

1032
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: So go my ten of those. His website is Charlie

1033
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: Morley One Word Charlie L I. E. Morley l e

1034
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 1: y dot com. Go and check that out. What else

1035
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: do you want to plug or promote?

1036
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: Mate, just Instagram and staff Instagram, Facebook, Come make friends

1037
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: with me. Oh something launched today. I mean this is

1038
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: mainly people who work with me before, but the Lucid

1039
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: Dream Facilitator training, So training others if you're a therapist

1040
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: or a coach who wants to learn how to teach

1041
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: Lucier dreaming into your clients. And that's something that literally

1042
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: just launched today. So that'll be new on my website too. Yeah.

1043
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: Your thanks for being on the you stay there, will

1044
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: say goodbye affair, but mate, thanks so much for being

1045
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: part of the silliness that is the Youth Project.

1046
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: Oh it's been a pleasure, mate, thanks so much.

1047
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: Thanks Melissa, thank you both.

1048
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 2: I've got to go take a nap now.

1049
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: I think just generally feel the benefits. I might do

1050
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: the same. Thanks everyone, love you Bye,