Speaker 1: On Sunday night in Bondai, two gunmen opened fire on
Speaker 1: Jewish families. Sixteen people, including one of the gunmen, are
Speaker 1: confirmed dead, making the tragedy Australia's first mass shooting in
Speaker 1: nearly thirty years. A further forty two people were taken
Speaker 1: to hospital, as well as the second gunman, who is
Speaker 1: under police guard. ASIO has confirmed one of the gunmen
Speaker 1: was known to them and that are reports the men
Speaker 1: are linked to Islamic State. As authorities grapple with the
Speaker 1: terror event, the Prime Minister Anthony Abernezi.
Speaker 2: Will put tougher gun laws to national cabinet.
Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am today
Speaker 1: Federal Member for Wentworth A Legrispender on how the Bondai
Speaker 1: community is responding to this tragedy and what needs to
Speaker 1: change to keep Jewish Australian safe. It's Tuesday, December sixteenth, Algra.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Speaker 1: You're in North Bondai now, just meters from where this
Speaker 1: attack happened.
Speaker 2: Can you describe to.
Speaker 1: Me what's been happening at Bondai today.
Speaker 3: I mean today, people from all over the community, people
Speaker 3: who were there, people who weren't. There are coming down,
Speaker 3: sharing grief, laying flowers and talking to each other, and
Speaker 3: it has been an absolutely devastating day for the whole
Speaker 3: of the Bondai community and especially for the Jewish community.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me.
Speaker 1: A bit about the conversations that you've been having with
Speaker 1: people in the Jewish community.
Speaker 3: I think there is an enormous sense of fear, sense
Speaker 3: of grief, sense of anger, a whole range of emotions
Speaker 3: that I've seen today. I spoke to one woman. She said,
Speaker 3: I'm the eighth generation Australian from a Jewish community, and
Speaker 3: she said, you know, I'm scared. You know that we
Speaker 3: will never be safe here. That is so terrible to
Speaker 3: hear that. Are seen people very angry, and then stories
Speaker 3: of some of the people we lost, like the rabbi
Speaker 3: Rabbi Eli Shlanger and as someone described him to me
Speaker 3: this morning, and this ring is completely true with my
Speaker 3: experience with him, he woke up every morning with the
Speaker 3: goal of how can you do some good each day.
Speaker 3: He was a very very, very special man and his
Speaker 3: death is absolutely devastating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's one of.
Speaker 1: The fifteen people who were killed on Sunday night. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me a bit more about the other victims.
Speaker 3: Well, there are a range of victims. One of them
Speaker 3: is a ten year old girl called Matilda. What name
Speaker 3: you know is more Australian than that, and yeah, that's
Speaker 3: her family. We have a Holocaust survivor, people who went
Speaker 3: to extraordinary lengths to look after each other in a
Speaker 3: horrific moment. And just to be honest, the fear that
Speaker 3: I have seen in the community, not just the Jewish community,
Speaker 3: but the whole community who was there is overwhelming.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the stories of heroism as well. I'm
Speaker 1: sure most people now have seen the video of a
Speaker 1: civilian who approached one of the gunmen and disarmed him.
Speaker 1: His name is Ahmed al Ahmed. He's a fruit shop
Speaker 1: owner from the south of Sydney. What did you think
Speaker 1: when you saw that footage?
Speaker 4: I thought he was the bravest man I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: He, you know, someone to symbolize what it means to
Speaker 3: be Australian, to stand up for what you believe is right.
Speaker 3: He is unbelievable. I think he's a national international hero.
Speaker 3: You know, he saved lives yesterday and we must all
Speaker 3: be grateful for him, you know, standing up and being
Speaker 3: an incredible Australian and it's been.
Speaker 1: Confirmed that one of the attackers had a gun license
Speaker 1: and had amassed six guns legally which we used in
Speaker 1: the attack. The Prime Minister is that he's going to
Speaker 1: take tougher gun laws to National Cabinet now for consideration.
Speaker 5: Tougher gun laws including limits on the number of guns
Speaker 5: that can be used or licensed by individuals, a review
Speaker 5: of licenses over a period of time. People's circumstances change,
Speaker 5: people can be radicalized over a period of time, Licenses
Speaker 5: should not be in perpetuity, and checks of course making
Speaker 5: sure that those checks and balances are in place as well.
Speaker 2: Is that overdue?
Speaker 4: I think it's absolutely right that we do this.
Speaker 3: I know that there has been some a lot of
Speaker 3: concern out there about, you know, the sort of delay
Speaker 3: in some aspects of sharing firearms and licenses and those
Speaker 3: sorts of things across the country. So that is really important.
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, there is much, much, much
Speaker 3: other work that needs to be done.
Speaker 1: And as I have said, that one of the shooters
Speaker 1: was known to them, yet the two were able to
Speaker 1: mass a lot of firepowers, So will you be asking
Speaker 1: how that could have been allowed to happen?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I think that is one of those.
Speaker 3: There are many questions to be answered, and one of
Speaker 3: them is how that happened and what was known about
Speaker 3: this person and why this person was not seen as
Speaker 3: an ongoing threat from Asia. These are very important questions
Speaker 3: that the community is asking and that we need answers to.
Speaker 1: And this is clearly a targeted anti Semitic attack in
Speaker 1: an environment when we've seen increasing displays of anti Semitism.
Speaker 1: You've said that there have been missteps by the government
Speaker 1: and tackling this, So what do you think they are.
Speaker 4: Look, I think this has been building.
Speaker 3: So anti Semitism has been growing in this country for
Speaker 3: the last over two years since October seven attacks, and
Speaker 3: what you have seen over this time is people be
Speaker 3: more brazen and people need to be honestly more socially acceptable.
Speaker 3: People say, well, you know, I'm not anti Semitic, I'm
Speaker 3: just anti Zionist, recognizing that around eighty percent plus Australia
Speaker 3: to use are Zionists. So in some cases that is
Speaker 3: an absolute cover for anti Semitism. So in terms of
Speaker 3: the missteps, I mean, I think you know, as so
Speaker 3: many Jewish as stratims will tell me that it started
Speaker 3: on October nine ninth with the protest outside the Opera
Speaker 3: House and not enough strong combination.
Speaker 4: You know, there are many things and many moments.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that I wonder if we had taken a
Speaker 3: stronger police response, then, if we had a more coordinated approach,
Speaker 3: then if we had spoken up more strongly, would things
Speaker 3: have been changed?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Certainly one area I will continue to fight on is
Speaker 3: law reform and relation to hate speech, because I think,
Speaker 3: you know what I think. You know, there are people
Speaker 3: in this country, around this country where we disagree and
Speaker 3: that's really appropriate. But where people start to spread hate,
Speaker 3: that is where we need to draw really bright lines.
Speaker 3: There will be a lot of analysis after this to
Speaker 3: see what actually went wrong yesterday, but the build up
Speaker 3: of anti Semitism has been happening over a long period
Speaker 3: of time.
Speaker 2: How do you.
Speaker 1: Think about the need to balance keeping Jewish Australians safe
Speaker 1: with the right for Australians to protest war in the
Speaker 1: Middle East.
Speaker 3: People's right to process is really important and I have
Speaker 3: always supported that.
Speaker 4: But the question I ask.
Speaker 3: Everyone, and I think we all need to think about
Speaker 3: today is what are my actions doing in terms of
Speaker 3: both my local community and the international community. Are my
Speaker 3: individual actions making this country better and safe for all
Speaker 3: of us and for the world. I think those are
Speaker 3: the questions that we need to ask ourselves every day.
Speaker 3: I try and come back to what Australia stands for.
Speaker 3: Modern Australia. You know, the country is a place where
Speaker 3: our security are accepts, is not based on your religion,
Speaker 3: your ethnicity or sexuality.
Speaker 4: That is what modern Australia is about.
Speaker 3: And I think that's really important to me right now
Speaker 3: because people were targeted by terrorists on the basis of
Speaker 3: their faith and that is completely un Australian and I
Speaker 3: think collectively we need to stand up against that anti
Speaker 3: Semitism and say no Australian should be targeted on the
Speaker 3: basis of their faith like the Jewish community was yesterday.
Speaker 2: After the break the risk of politicizing a.
Speaker 1: Tragedy, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Nyahu has blamed Anthony albernezi Is,
Speaker 1: saying the Prime Minister poured fuel on the anti Semitism
Speaker 1: fire in recognizing a Palestinian state. The opposition leader Susan
Speaker 1: Lee has also blamed the Prime Minister, given that there
Speaker 1: are reports that one of the gunmen was in vestigated
Speaker 1: for supporting Islamic state back in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: What is your response to that.
Speaker 3: I think we need to understand what happened yesterday before
Speaker 3: we try an apportion blame on people said.
Speaker 4: I I've been clear.
Speaker 3: I think that the government has made missteps, but we
Speaker 3: do not know that if any of the missteps that
Speaker 3: have made, whether that contributed to yesterday or not, we
Speaker 3: just don't know.
Speaker 1: And when you say missteps, can you tell me any
Speaker 1: more about what you think those missteps are.
Speaker 3: Look, I mean, I think you know this has been
Speaker 3: going on for the last two years, so it can
Speaker 3: be you know, was the government fast enough you bring
Speaker 3: together police? And you know, I'm not just talking about
Speaker 3: the federal government here, I'm talking about also the state government.
Speaker 3: We've had process, many people concerned about some extreme content
Speaker 3: in some of the process, and that hasn't been.
Speaker 4: Policed effectively enough. You know, there are many different steps.
Speaker 3: Again, I don't say that you know one step has
Speaker 3: led to yesterday, But I think it is going to
Speaker 3: take more than just changes to laws, and more than
Speaker 3: just stepping up in policing. It is also going to
Speaker 3: take a collective I think wakening from the broader community
Speaker 3: about you know the seriousness of what the community is
Speaker 3: facing and how important it is for all of us
Speaker 3: in what we say online, what we do, how we
Speaker 3: treat each other to disagree, but disagree respectfully, and that
Speaker 3: is really really important.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: What do you think it would take to make the
Speaker 1: Jewish community feel safe again in Australia.
Speaker 3: I think that's an incredibly hard question because I think
Speaker 3: many people in the Jewish community don't know if they
Speaker 3: ever will feel safe again honestly after this. But I
Speaker 3: think it is up to all of us because that's
Speaker 3: what this country is based on. This country is based
Speaker 3: on the idea that doesn't matter your faith, it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter your sexuality or you know where you come from,
Speaker 3: you should be safe and welcome here. So what would
Speaker 3: it take. I think it starts with attitude, and its
Speaker 3: starts with people collectively right now saying we stand with
Speaker 3: the Jewish community. And what I'm asking of everyone I
Speaker 3: know is please reach out to Jewish Australians, you know,
Speaker 3: whether there are colleagues, whether they're friends, and just say
Speaker 3: we are here with you and we are standing by
Speaker 3: you today. And what I have heard again from the
Speaker 3: community today is in a month, in two months, in
Speaker 3: three months. We cannot let these memories fade. We need
Speaker 3: to remember that there are extremists out there trying to
Speaker 3: tear the country apart, and we need to collectively stand
Speaker 3: up and fight them, and particularly you know and those
Speaker 3: who are spreading anti Semitism. We need to draw very
Speaker 3: bright lines around that.
Speaker 1: And as you say, it has been such a short
Speaker 1: time since the attack happened, we don't know very much
Speaker 1: about these men and their ideology. Yeah, so what do
Speaker 1: you think the risk is in a portioning blame, whether
Speaker 1: that is to the Prime Minister or to protesters who
Speaker 1: muched across the Sydney hrbor Bridge before war, we fully
Speaker 1: understand what has actually happened here.
Speaker 3: I think that is You're right there are risks in
Speaker 3: doing that, and I think this can be an incredibly
Speaker 3: important turning point for Australia where we collectively say what
Speaker 3: we stand for and in a very positive way reaffirm
Speaker 3: our Australian values, which are the best famiues in the world.
Speaker 3: So I think you are right to say that it
Speaker 3: is dangerous to abortion blame and it is dangerous to
Speaker 3: try and divide our country right now. And I think
Speaker 3: that's where come back to the common values and be careful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Well, Alga, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, Prime Minister Anthony Alberinezi has about
Speaker 1: to introduce tougher gun control laws, including limiting the number
Speaker 1: of firearms someone could have and an audit of existing licenses.
Speaker 1: The Prime Minister says reforms introduced by John Howard in
Speaker 1: the wake of the Port Arthur massacre made an enormous difference,
Speaker 1: but indicated the government will examine whether any restrictions can
Speaker 1: be tightened. He also says he wants to seek greater
Speaker 1: uniformity across states and territories, and the United States Special
Speaker 1: envoy says a lot of progress has been made in
Speaker 1: talks with Ukrainian President Lord Mizelensky to end the war
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. A meeting between Zelenski and a US delegation
Speaker 1: that includes Steve Witkoff and President Trump's son in law,
Speaker 1: Jared Kushna is taking place in Berlin. Reports from the
Speaker 1: ongoing negotiations suggest President Zelensky has offered to drop Kiev's
Speaker 1: aspirations to join the NATO military alliance in exchange for
Speaker 1: Western security guarantees.
Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.