WEBVTT - How the Bondi shootings will change Australia 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.960 On Sunday night in Bondai, two gunmen opened fire on 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:08.080 Jewish families. Sixteen people, including one of the gunmen, are 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.320 confirmed dead, making the tragedy Australia's first mass shooting in 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.200 nearly thirty years. A further forty two people were taken 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.520 to hospital, as well as the second gunman, who is 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.200 under police guard. ASIO has confirmed one of the gunmen 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.440 was known to them and that are reports the men 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.520 are linked to Islamic State. As authorities grapple with the 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.320 terror event, the Prime Minister Anthony Abernezi. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:32.919 Will put tougher gun laws to national cabinet. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:41.200 I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am today 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.839 Federal Member for Wentworth A Legrispender on how the Bondai 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.879 community is responding to this tragedy and what needs to 0:00:47.960 --> 0:01:01.040 change to keep Jewish Australian safe. It's Tuesday, December sixteenth, Algra. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.440 Thank you so much for speaking with me today. 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.600 You're in North Bondai now, just meters from where this 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:08.480 attack happened. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.119 Can you describe to. 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:11.720 Me what's been happening at Bondai today. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.040 I mean today, people from all over the community, people 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.520 who were there, people who weren't. There are coming down, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.160 sharing grief, laying flowers and talking to each other, and 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.880 it has been an absolutely devastating day for the whole 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.840 of the Bondai community and especially for the Jewish community. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:33.440 Can you tell me. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.800 A bit about the conversations that you've been having with 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.440 people in the Jewish community. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.600 I think there is an enormous sense of fear, sense 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.400 of grief, sense of anger, a whole range of emotions 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.640 that I've seen today. I spoke to one woman. She said, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.240 I'm the eighth generation Australian from a Jewish community, and 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.760 she said, you know, I'm scared. You know that we 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.080 will never be safe here. That is so terrible to 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.360 hear that. Are seen people very angry, and then stories 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.280 of some of the people we lost, like the rabbi 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.400 Rabbi Eli Shlanger and as someone described him to me 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.720 this morning, and this ring is completely true with my 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.040 experience with him, he woke up every morning with the 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:18.760 goal of how can you do some good each day. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.000 He was a very very, very special man and his 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.320 death is absolutely devastating. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:25.200 Yeah, he's one of. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.240 The fifteen people who were killed on Sunday night. Can 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.399 you tell me a bit more about the other victims. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.919 Well, there are a range of victims. One of them 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:39.560 is a ten year old girl called Matilda. What name 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.720 you know is more Australian than that, and yeah, that's 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.519 her family. We have a Holocaust survivor, people who went 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.600 to extraordinary lengths to look after each other in a 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.600 horrific moment. And just to be honest, the fear that 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.960 I have seen in the community, not just the Jewish community, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.600 but the whole community who was there is overwhelming. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.200 And you mentioned the stories of heroism as well. I'm 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.760 sure most people now have seen the video of a 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.119 civilian who approached one of the gunmen and disarmed him. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.640 His name is Ahmed al Ahmed. He's a fruit shop 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.240 owner from the south of Sydney. What did you think 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.120 when you saw that footage? 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.240 I thought he was the bravest man I've ever seen. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:27.080 He, you know, someone to symbolize what it means to 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.079 be Australian, to stand up for what you believe is right. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.240 He is unbelievable. I think he's a national international hero. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.920 You know, he saved lives yesterday and we must all 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.040 be grateful for him, you know, standing up and being 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.720 an incredible Australian and it's been. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.800 Confirmed that one of the attackers had a gun license 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.800 and had amassed six guns legally which we used in 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.600 the attack. The Prime Minister is that he's going to 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.000 take tougher gun laws to National Cabinet now for consideration. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:03.400 Tougher gun laws including limits on the number of guns 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:14.120 that can be used or licensed by individuals, a review 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.880 of licenses over a period of time. People's circumstances change, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.120 people can be radicalized over a period of time, Licenses 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.360 should not be in perpetuity, and checks of course making 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.400 sure that those checks and balances are in place as well. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.000 Is that overdue? 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.080 I think it's absolutely right that we do this. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.960 I know that there has been some a lot of 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.480 concern out there about, you know, the sort of delay 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.840 in some aspects of sharing firearms and licenses and those 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.039 sorts of things across the country. So that is really important. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.200 But I think, you know, there is much, much, much 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:51.440 other work that needs to be done. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.839 And as I have said, that one of the shooters 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.080 was known to them, yet the two were able to 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.400 mass a lot of firepowers, So will you be asking 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.479 how that could have been allowed to happen? 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.400 Absolutely, and I think that is one of those. 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.600 There are many questions to be answered, and one of 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.000 them is how that happened and what was known about 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:17.320 this person and why this person was not seen as 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.600 an ongoing threat from Asia. These are very important questions 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.120 that the community is asking and that we need answers to. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.520 And this is clearly a targeted anti Semitic attack in 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.479 an environment when we've seen increasing displays of anti Semitism. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.000 You've said that there have been missteps by the government 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.520 and tackling this, So what do you think they are. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.039 Look, I think this has been building. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.960 So anti Semitism has been growing in this country for 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:46.200 the last over two years since October seven attacks, and 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.120 what you have seen over this time is people be 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.120 more brazen and people need to be honestly more socially acceptable. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.640 People say, well, you know, I'm not anti Semitic, I'm 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:03.080 just anti Zionist, recognizing that around eighty percent plus Australia 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.880 to use are Zionists. So in some cases that is 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.400 an absolute cover for anti Semitism. So in terms of 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.599 the missteps, I mean, I think you know, as so 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.600 many Jewish as stratims will tell me that it started 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.479 on October nine ninth with the protest outside the Opera 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.560 House and not enough strong combination. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.120 You know, there are many things and many moments. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.280 I'm sure that I wonder if we had taken a 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.400 stronger police response, then, if we had a more coordinated approach, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.040 then if we had spoken up more strongly, would things 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:35.880 have been changed? 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:36.080 You know? 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.000 Certainly one area I will continue to fight on is 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.320 law reform and relation to hate speech, because I think, 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.040 you know what I think. You know, there are people 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.240 in this country, around this country where we disagree and 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.920 that's really appropriate. But where people start to spread hate, 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.520 that is where we need to draw really bright lines. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.520 There will be a lot of analysis after this to 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.760 see what actually went wrong yesterday, but the build up 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.320 of anti Semitism has been happening over a long period 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:04.640 of time. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:05.840 How do you. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:11.080 Think about the need to balance keeping Jewish Australians safe 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.040 with the right for Australians to protest war in the 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:14.640 Middle East. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.600 People's right to process is really important and I have 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:23.320 always supported that. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.320 But the question I ask. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.640 Everyone, and I think we all need to think about 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:34.120 today is what are my actions doing in terms of 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.320 both my local community and the international community. Are my 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.080 individual actions making this country better and safe for all 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.160 of us and for the world. I think those are 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.680 the questions that we need to ask ourselves every day. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.960 I try and come back to what Australia stands for. 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.160 Modern Australia. You know, the country is a place where 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:02.920 our security are accepts, is not based on your religion, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:04.880 your ethnicity or sexuality. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.360 That is what modern Australia is about. 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.119 And I think that's really important to me right now 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:16.240 because people were targeted by terrorists on the basis of 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.400 their faith and that is completely un Australian and I 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.520 think collectively we need to stand up against that anti 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.400 Semitism and say no Australian should be targeted on the 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.240 basis of their faith like the Jewish community was yesterday. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.240 After the break the risk of politicizing a. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:46.640 Tragedy, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Nyahu has blamed Anthony albernezi Is, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.320 saying the Prime Minister poured fuel on the anti Semitism 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.800 fire in recognizing a Palestinian state. The opposition leader Susan 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.199 Lee has also blamed the Prime Minister, given that there 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.520 are reports that one of the gunmen was in vestigated 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.800 for supporting Islamic state back in twenty nineteen. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:05.520 What is your response to that. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.240 I think we need to understand what happened yesterday before 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.080 we try an apportion blame on people said. 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:17.560 I I've been clear. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.760 I think that the government has made missteps, but we 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.520 do not know that if any of the missteps that 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.720 have made, whether that contributed to yesterday or not, we 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:25.320 just don't know. 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.160 And when you say missteps, can you tell me any 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:29.959 more about what you think those missteps are. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.240 Look, I mean, I think you know this has been 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.520 going on for the last two years, so it can 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.959 be you know, was the government fast enough you bring 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.400 together police? And you know, I'm not just talking about 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.920 the federal government here, I'm talking about also the state government. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:48.120 We've had process, many people concerned about some extreme content 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.480 in some of the process, and that hasn't been. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.480 Policed effectively enough. You know, there are many different steps. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.880 Again, I don't say that you know one step has 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.720 led to yesterday, But I think it is going to 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.640 take more than just changes to laws, and more than 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.840 just stepping up in policing. It is also going to 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:11.640 take a collective I think wakening from the broader community 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:16.960 about you know the seriousness of what the community is 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.520 facing and how important it is for all of us 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.240 in what we say online, what we do, how we 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.520 treat each other to disagree, but disagree respectfully, and that 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:28.960 is really really important. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:29.320 Yep. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:30.880 What do you think it would take to make the 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.040 Jewish community feel safe again in Australia. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.440 I think that's an incredibly hard question because I think 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.800 many people in the Jewish community don't know if they 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.200 ever will feel safe again honestly after this. But I 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.800 think it is up to all of us because that's 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.440 what this country is based on. This country is based 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.160 on the idea that doesn't matter your faith, it doesn't 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.800 matter your sexuality or you know where you come from, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.040 you should be safe and welcome here. So what would 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.600 it take. I think it starts with attitude, and its 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.720 starts with people collectively right now saying we stand with 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.840 the Jewish community. And what I'm asking of everyone I 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.880 know is please reach out to Jewish Australians, you know, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.600 whether there are colleagues, whether they're friends, and just say 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.520 we are here with you and we are standing by 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.920 you today. And what I have heard again from the 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.280 community today is in a month, in two months, in 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.199 three months. We cannot let these memories fade. We need 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.160 to remember that there are extremists out there trying to 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.600 tear the country apart, and we need to collectively stand 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.800 up and fight them, and particularly you know and those 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.319 who are spreading anti Semitism. We need to draw very 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:41.440 bright lines around that. 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.040 And as you say, it has been such a short 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.120 time since the attack happened, we don't know very much 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.440 about these men and their ideology. Yeah, so what do 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.520 you think the risk is in a portioning blame, whether 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.840 that is to the Prime Minister or to protesters who 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.760 muched across the Sydney hrbor Bridge before war, we fully 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.880 understand what has actually happened here. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.440 I think that is You're right there are risks in 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.000 doing that, and I think this can be an incredibly 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.760 important turning point for Australia where we collectively say what 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.520 we stand for and in a very positive way reaffirm 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.640 our Australian values, which are the best famiues in the world. 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.000 So I think you are right to say that it 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.600 is dangerous to abortion blame and it is dangerous to 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.680 try and divide our country right now. And I think 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.080 that's where come back to the common values and be careful. 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:33.760 Yeah, I think you're right. 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.320 Well, Alga, thank you so much for your time. 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:40.120 Thank you so much for having me. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.520 Also in the news, Prime Minister Anthony Alberinezi has about 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.000 to introduce tougher gun control laws, including limiting the number 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.600 of firearms someone could have and an audit of existing licenses. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.080 The Prime Minister says reforms introduced by John Howard in 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.960 the wake of the Port Arthur massacre made an enormous difference, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.400 but indicated the government will examine whether any restrictions can 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.600 be tightened. He also says he wants to seek greater 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.960 uniformity across states and territories, and the United States Special 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.080 envoy says a lot of progress has been made in 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.439 talks with Ukrainian President Lord Mizelensky to end the war 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.080 in Ukraine. A meeting between Zelenski and a US delegation 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.000 that includes Steve Witkoff and President Trump's son in law, 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.800 Jared Kushna is taking place in Berlin. Reports from the 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.720 ongoing negotiations suggest President Zelensky has offered to drop Kiev's 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.280 aspirations to join the NATO military alliance in exchange for 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:45.840 Western security guarantees. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.800 I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.