WEBVTT - Sharri | 9 April 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:05.399 Live on Sky News. This is Sharry. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:07.200 Good Evening. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.760 Well, it's a major week of political debates and we 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.039 just saw Jim Charmers and Angus Taylor go head to head. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.759 Both politicians were sharp, precise and on message. Chalmers accused 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.479 Taylor of planning secret cuts to pay for a six 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.720 hundred billion dollar nuclear plan, while Taylor said the Treasurer 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:32.120 had overseen the greatest decline in living standards in Australian history. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.720 This is a cost of living crisis. With Trump's trade 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:40.680 tariff's causing global havoc and inflation still biting, the economy 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.960 is the central issue impacting every single Australian. Now voters 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.280 will decide who they trust to run the country and 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.520 even tonight. In this debate, Angus Taylor, while he performed 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.760 extremely well, he struggled to nail Jim Charmers all the 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.400 Albaneze government for how the stand of living has collapsed, 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.160 for how energy prices are soaring despite the government in 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:11.960 opposition promising the opposite, and for their wasteful spending. Angus 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.840 Taylor and Dutton will be judged if they fail to 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.520 comprehensively prosecute the case against Charmers on these fronts and 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.640 not just tonight, where as I said, Taylor performed very well, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:24.560 but in the campaign more broadly. 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:26.680 Now, the standout. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.160 Moment tonight was when Ross Greenwood asked the treasurer if 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:35.000 he'd apologize for promising that energy prices would fall by 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:40.200 two hundred and seventy five dollars. Chalmers said, he takes responsibility, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.000 but he stopped shot of saying sorry, Will you. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.160 Look down the battle of the camera and apologize for that, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.800 because he's at something you should do, because again, that 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.320 was a promise, it was not fulfilled. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:50.760 Well. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.040 The two hundred and seventy five figure that you're referring 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.840 to from the modeling in twenty twenty one predated two 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.600 important developments. The first one was angusin devine to hide 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.120 a big price rise before the last election. We didn't 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.640 know about that when we talked about that modeling. And 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.360 the second thing is there's been a major land war 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.000 in Eastern Europe which has caused a global spike in 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:10.959 energy inflation. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.240 In fact, Chalmers was twice asked to apologize to voters 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.480 for promising a lower cost of living before the last election, 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.480 and Taylor put this to him as well, but again 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:26.360 he didn't apologize. In return, Chalmers asked Taylor to promise 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.000 that he wouldn't cut essential services. 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.120 Yes, and Peter Button have both said the best indicator 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.280 of future is what's happened in the past. Now, in 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.400 their first budget, after promising no cuts to health and education, 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.000 they cut eighty billion dollars of health education. And that's 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:44.320 why he won't answer this question. 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.600 And this is the heart of Labour's attack against the 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.560 Coalition during this campaign, that it would cut health education 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:52.519 and medicare. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:53.280 Now. 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.919 Another key moment tonight was when Ross green would ask 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.640 Angus Taylor if he didn't put enough work into his 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:00.400 own job. 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.480 Question is some people suggest that maybe you don't put 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.880 the work in You maybe have heard that as well. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:06.840 What's your own sense of that? 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.000 Well, you know, there's lots of free advice. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.880 And in turn, Russ Greenwood put to Jim Chalmers that 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.440 he had a glass jaw. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.880 The one thing they say is you've got a bit 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.320 of a glass jaw that you don't cop criticism well 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:22.600 or just say that. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.960 I think over time I've learned to understand that you 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:29.120 take the good with the bad. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.040 Now, Trump's Trey tariffs was the opening question like it 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.320 was last night, and Chalmers claimed Albanezy was standing up 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.000 for Australia while he said Darton was full of doge 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.400 sick of ants. And Taylor responded by saying that he'd 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.600 take on the Trump administration and that they would sought 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.280 out an exemption like they had in the past. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.640 And here I think we've got the first contrast of 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.480 the debate tonight, the first choice, because we've got a 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.280 Prime Minister standing up for and speaking up for Australia, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.560 and we've got an opposition leader and an opposition which 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.720 is absolutely full of these kind of thogey sicker fans 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.840 who have hitched their wagon to American style slogans and 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:14.400 policies and especially cuts which would make Australians worse off. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.599 We've heard the first piece of nonsense from Jim tonight, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.040 which is that we're not prepared to take on an 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.839 American administration. We did when we were lasting government, we 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:25.359 will again. 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.039 The question of a recession was put on the table 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:29.840 during the debate. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.440 Augus Taylor said. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.640 That if the four rate cuts that Charmers had forecast, well, 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.560 if they come to pass, this would mean that Australia 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.039 would be in a recession, but Charmers argued that he 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.560 expects the economy to continue to grow. To this point, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:49.120 we heard Angus Taylor point to GDP per capita going backwards. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:54.000 He called it a lost decade with living standards falling. 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.200 GDP per capita has gone backwards for twenty one months 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.960 in a row under your so called stewardship, Jim. And 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.520 the result of that is our household standard of living, 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.520 what our incomes combined terms of goods and services, has 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.240 collapsed in an unprecedented way seven point nine percent since 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.159 she came into government. The buffers are gone if you 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.080 look at household budgets that they're deep into digging into 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:22.080 their savings. 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.279 And that was the crux of the coalition argument that 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.279 Angus Taylor prosecutor tonight. But Ross Green would push Taylor 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.000 on spending, saying. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.200 Well, what would he cut? 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.520 And Taylor claimed that he'd grow the economy faster by 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.400 business investment, so he said he'd grow the economy faster 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.960 than spending with business investment. Green would also then push 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.640 Charmers on why he's spending twenty billion dollars on student 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.839 debt when generations before. 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.240 Had to pay their own hex debt. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.279 There was also a clash on how much each of 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.440 their energy plans would cost. 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.000 Angus is going to the election with three policies, first 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:04.240 of all, to increase income taxes on every Australian tax payer, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.280 second of all lower wages, and thirdly secret cuts to 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.719 pay for nuclear reactors. And you can't find six hundred 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.400 billion dollars to pay for those nuclear reactors without coming 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.960 after medicare, just like Peter Dutton did when he was 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:17.599 the Health Minister. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.279 The only energy plan that's going to cost six hundred 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.600 billion dollars is your energy plan, Chris Bowen's energy Now. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.599 Angus Taylor spoke early on about how the standard of 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.800 living had fallen more under the Albaneze government than at 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.640 any other time in history, and the cost of living 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.120 crisis is the central issue on the minds of voters 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.080 this campaign, But Charmers was able to get through the 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:47.520 debate without Taylor convincingly holding him personally responsible for this crisis. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.080 It became a contest on whose plan to help the 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.920 cost of living was better, rather than what the coalition 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.800 is seeking to do, which is to have the election 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.760 become a referendum on the cost of living. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:05.080 Crimes under labor. We've seen groceries go up by thirty percent, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.080 gas electricity insurance all up by over thirty percent. Your 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.000 homegrown inflation has had this impact. There is a better way, Jim. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.600 Now, this contest between Angus Taylor and Jim Chalmers is 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.200 important because ultimately there's nothing of more significance to voters 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:23.680 at the. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.360 Moment than our economy. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.640 Now we're going to have full analysis tonight. We will 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.080 have in a moment rich O and Michael Kroger. But 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.400 right now, for his view on the debate we just 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.040 saw between Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Angus Taylor. Let's bring 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.880 in Judo Bank Economic advisor Warren Hogan. Warren, what's your 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.360 view on how this played out? This is the crucial 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.160 issue and voters will judge the Albanezy government harshly. But 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.120 do you think Angus Taylor really nailed Jim Charmers on 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:54.720 that tonight? 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.600 Look, I don't think he got the killer blow. He 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.200 didn't ram home the message about the text the massive 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:07.240 increase on taxas on Australians, and certainly he didn't get 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.440 that sense of the responsibility for the inflation. But he 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.560 really did win the overall sense of being able to 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.920 articulate the challenges that the Australian people are facing, the 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.200 risks that have been posed by not just what's happening 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.400 now with the tariffs and the market volatility, but with 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.240 our productivity problem, with our standard of living going backwards, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.480 and articulating a plan. And I think that's what he 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.640 had to do and I think he did that really well. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.760 So I think Angus Taylor has come out pretty well tonight. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.000 Yeah, he did perform really well. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.280 And for many Australians this might have been the first 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.920 they saw of Angus Taylor because he hasn't given you know, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.560 he hasn't been perhaps as prolific as he could have 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.160 been in terms of media appearances. I think they each 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.040 got really strong lines in tonight. Angus Taylor his closed sentence, 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.120 he's closing his closing address there he said, who do 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.280 you trust to manage the economy more? 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.320 That is what the coalition's putting. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.880 And then Jim Chalmers called it a coalition of cuts 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.080 and chaos, which was quite a biting line as well. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.480 Yeah, well, I think Chalmers didn't land the blow that 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.000 they're trying to land through this whole campaign, which is 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.840 the coalition is going to cut, cut, cut. It's actually 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.360 now just becoming noise because Taylor was able to get 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.119 through that. So look, I think if you are looking seriously, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.920 and economics is extraordinarily complex, the job of the Treasure 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:46.000 is ever more how to actually communicate these issues. I 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.240 think you can see that Taylor has actually risen to 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.120 the occasion and the problem for the Treasure is he 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.760 continues to look like a politician and driven by sort 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.480 of set pieces and slogans, whereas Taylor is actually articulating 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.840 the issues. And I think that was the contrast that 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.640 Angus Taylor had to bring out. So look, I think 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.280 from an economist's point of view, knowing what I think 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.319 is the real priorities for this country, the government's already 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.880 showing its hands. They are spending too much. The tax 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.480 burden on Australians is too high. We are running an 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:20.360 experiment with growing government like we haven't seen in our past. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.080 At the same time we're seeing one of the biggest 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.120 shocks to the world economy since nineteen forty five. And 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.959 I think the real issue is is this government up 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.240 for this challenge? And I am worried it's not the 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.400 question now is can Taylor take on the job, And 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.920 I think tonight he show that he can that question. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.360 Though you know voters are or they should be if 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.120 they're not concerned about the trillion dollars of debt that 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.400 Australia would reach under the Albanesi government next financial year. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:50.800 But then when Ross Green would turn that back on 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.640 Taylor and he said to Taylor, will what would you cut? 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.640 That was a difficult moment in this debate because Taylor 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.800 couldn't really answer beyond the renewable energy plan. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.320 And that's the problem with being in opposition. We saw 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.160 Bill Shorten lose an unlosable election to Scott Morrison because 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.840 of a big suite of some really good policies, but 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.360 it was too much for the electric to handle. John 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.600 Houston's the classic back in nineteen ninety three. So the 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.680 opposition has got this really tricky ground to navigate to 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.240 say they're going to do things differently, to demonstrate it 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.360 without giving the government the material for a scare campaign. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.040 The reality is, if you are going to unwind just 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.160 the bracket creep, if you're going to give back to 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.880 the Australian people the increased real tax burden that has 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.520 happened under this government. That is sixty odd billion a 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.160 year of cutting. Now, no government's going to do that, 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.960 but that's the magnitude of it. So there's no way 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.120 to address that because it'll just give them reasons to 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.600 run a scare cam. But he has made it clear 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.560 and Dunton has made it clear they are going to 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.760 restrain government spending and I think that is the most 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:57.600 important point. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.520 I mean, the question that Screen would put to Jim Chalmers, 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.400 will you apologize for the two hundred and seventy five 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.560 dollars You know, it is such a difficult question for 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.199 the Treasurer to answer because that was an obvious promise 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.880 that was made at the last election that your power 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.680 bills will be two dred seventy five dollars cheaper. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.640 I mean, you'd think Australians would be furious about that. 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:24.960 But again, has the Coalition properly pinned that to alban 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:26.079 Easy and charm Well. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.600 I think actually Taylor made a very good effort at 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.480 highlighting that the government and the treasure in particular, is 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.640 very good at blaming other people for the problems, making 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.160 it the Ukraine War, making it something going on with tariffs, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.280 so that they will not, and that's important because not 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.360 accepting that you are part of the mix means that 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.640 for people who are struggling, you're part of the problem. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.240 And I think Taylor did actually get that out there. 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.240 But to your point, I don't think. I think this 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.360 is one of the most effective examples of that because 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:00.160 they haven't been doing that. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:02.880 In your mind, was there a clear winner tonight? 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.000 I angus Taylor had everything to gain and the Treasure 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.240 had everything to lose, and that's exactly what happened. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:10.679 So who won? 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.520 I think it's Taylor showed that he is a genuine 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.880 alternative because he knows what's going on and he understands 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:17.400 the issues. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.800 All right, Warren Hogan, thank you so much, appreciate your 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.440 time as always. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:20.720 Thanks. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.439 All right, let's get more analysis on who won tonight's debate, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.840 and I hope they have a firm view as well, 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.640 with former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and labor 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.600 legend Graham Richardson. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Kroger, how 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:35.880 do you think the debate tonight went? 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:36.400 Who won? 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.760 Well, if you look at it from a political point 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.320 of view, if it was some kind of university debate. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.640 Jim Chalmers won because he's got all the funny tricky 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.319 lines like oh you Dunton's got all these secret cuts 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.080 to pay for his nuclear policy. But if you're looking 0:13:55.080 --> 0:14:00.480 at it seriously as a rivalry between two candidates for 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.560 the treasurership of Australia, then Angus Taylor won easily. I mean, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.480 these debating formats do not suit charmers, right, because the 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.680 longer they go, the more you're found out on substance. Now, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:16.800 this is not a fair fight. On the one hand, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.640 you've got Taylor, who's a Rhodes scholar, right, He's a 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.600 Rhodes scholar. Jim's got a university degree, but you know, 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:23.520 to be fair, he doesn't have. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.360 The intellect that Taylor's got. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.520 And I don't want to be academic a lead us here, 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.080 but to be a great treasure in this country, you've 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:36.320 got to really be academically excellent. Freedenberg keeping him though 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.800 it didn't have a uned degree, brilliant mind a Costello 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.080 and this bloke Taylor, right, you need to have a 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:47.160 phenomenal intellect and that's what Taylor's got. That's why the 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.560 longer it goes, the more they talk about substantial thing. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.440 Taylor just Oozer's class and intellect. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:52.840 Jim. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.160 Jim's good on the retail, secret cuts and the stuff. 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.680 But it's Jim's a commentator. That's what he is. The economy. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.120 He's never been running the economy. The economy is running Jim. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.080 You know, he was the surplus king for a while. 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.680 Now he's a deficit king. Jim's not in charge of anything. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.480 He just floats along in the boat down the river 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.160 telling us what's happening. So the answer is Taylor, because 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:14.119 he's got substance. 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.160 All right, rich O, I'll go to you for a 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.120 response to what Michael Kroger has just said it And also, 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.720 who do you think gave the best performance tonight? 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.480 Yeah, we must have been watching different debates. I think 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.760 I thought that both sides did pretty well. I don't 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.560 think there's a massively clear winner, but I do think 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.320 charmers at his nose in front as they passed the 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:39.000 winning post. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.800 Look, I don't think there was a clear winner either. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.320 I think both, as I said, both politicians were very sharp, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.880 they were both on message, they both prosecuted their arguments well. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.040 They both had cutting lines as we saw. But ultimately 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.600 this is a cost of living election, and you know 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.840 it's going to be up to who can convince voters 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.000 that they can And it's not even about managing the 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.880 economy better, which is what the coalition's line is, who 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:11.240 can put more money back into their pockets. And those comments, 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.160 I mean, we call them vox pops, those comments that 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.080 we heard from voters. Right in the middle of that debate, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.440 when we heard that one woman say she's been a 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.520 labor voter her whole life, but now her grocery bill 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.680 has gone up from eighty dollars a week to one 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.360 hundred and eighty dollars a week now, I reckon that's 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.760 a sentiment that most voters would be feeling. She said 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.840 she's definitely not voting Alban easy, but she's not voting 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:35.040 for Dutton either. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.680 So Michael, do you think this is why. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.080 We're seeing such a large soft vote here. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.360 I think that's right, and it's evidenced by what happened 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.760 last night. That's incredible debate last night between Peter Dutton 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.640 and the Prime Minister. Fascinating viewing. When Kier and Gilbert 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.120 ask the audience through up the hand if they're doing 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.720 it hard. Half half put the hand up. Some people say, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.880 oh gee, that wasn't a big number. Some say it 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:02.640 was a lot. The truth of the matter is this, 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.520 Australians are proud people. No one likes to go on 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.560 national television admit that they're financially struggling very badly, right, No, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.480 So the fact that half of the people put the 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:14.920 hand up basically means that all of them wanted to 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:15.680 put their hand up. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:16.160 Right. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.359 People are shy, They're not going to be on national tellier. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.920 They've all got financial problems. No one likes to admit that. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.040 So the fact of the matter is that last night 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:29.679 indicated and the vox pops today, this election debate is 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.720 now starting to get onto the substantial, substantive issue, not 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.560 all the noise we've seen our last week and half. 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.560 People are now starting to focus on the main issue 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.159 confronting Australia, and it's the economic crisis we're in, the 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.560 economic crisis that's coming for overseas reads that we all 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.960 know about, and who best is the party to deal 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.560 with that. So you've got Peter Dutton and an Angus 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.360 Taylor against Albow and Charmers. And that's why I think 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.480 Peter Dutton in the end and Angus Taylor will win. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.639 You still think they'll win, Michael, I go to Richro 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.479 but you think they will win this election? 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.320 I do, Yes, I do, all right. 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.800 I think in the Inchari people ask themselves do I 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.960 want the next three is to be like the last three? 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:15.359 And the answer will we know? 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.880 RICHI what do you think is Peter Darton Moore back 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.439 in the game now? Does he have more momentum after 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.600 his excellent performance last night? 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.960 I think he's never been out of the game. He's 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.440 in it and he's in it to win it. It's 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.359 just that he's not going to when the crunch comes. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.320 Elbow wins this election, in my view, he'll still have 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:38.960 a majority on his own. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.040 Look, you both are on my panel every single Wednesday night, 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.879 so when we get closer to the election, we're going 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.320 to get an exact seat prediction from you both. But 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.040 you know you're both experienced commentators. Richard, you're saying Labour's 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.959 going to win. Michael, you're saying Dutton's going to win. Michael, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.920 you'd be in the minority view at the moment given. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:58.320 What the polls are showing. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.520 But Darton, I know, is certainly confident that he can 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.800 get there. You know, it's difficult right now because even 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.000 with so yeah, go for it. 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.800 Well accept the red Bridge view that Samaris guy is 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.960 very bright, and Tony Barry and that mob down there, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.040 they have a very large number of undersided voters. I 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.440 mean where you know, ten days away from pre pole, 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.760 where almost a month away, three and a half weeks 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:32.120 away from the election. The main issue that's been confronting 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.800 the electorate over the last couple of years, the seventy 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.800 percent argument, the throbbing issue facing Australia today has not 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.000 been the substantive issue of the last week. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:42.359 And a half. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.159 So people are going to very soon get onto the 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.080 cost of living issue. You could see it last night 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.040 and tonight you could see it today when Adam Bantter 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.120 has now put up he read his ugly political head, 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.040 which is going to be another massive problem for alban 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:01.360 easy to do with you know, their arrangement in government. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.280 So the policy debate is now turning towards what helps 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.119 the coalition, what helps Peter Dutton. 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.600 Well, what certainly didn't help Albin Ezy today Richro was 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:17.280 Adam Bant's intervention, his speech where he outlined all of 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.320 the radical demands that he'd make of Albinizi in the 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.720 case of a hung parliament, and you could see how 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:28.160 angry alben Ezy was towards journalists unnecessarily. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.800 In reaction to that. But Rich, you know, what did 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:31.320 you think of that? 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.640 Because at some point, if there is a hung parliament, 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.320 Albo will have to do a deal with the likes 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.880 of the radical extremist Adam Bant. 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:39.960 Yeah. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.880 Well that wouldn't be a pleasant thing to have to do, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:44.720 but in politics, you do what you have to do, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.360 and even if you have to hold your nose while 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.720 you're doing it, you do so. And that's what Alba 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.520 will have to do. You can't you know, Labour is 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.360 not going to get a majority in its own right. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.639