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Speaker 1: A project production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the

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Speaker 2: Muscle comments and in this episode I speak with John Killick,

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Speaker 2: former bank robber and escapee.

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Speaker 3: I know I've trauma joined at some point a lot

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Speaker 3: of recovering. Twenty fifty months. She posed in a jobber.

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Speaker 3: So in those days, jar was tough. Acoustics are great now.

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Speaker 3: So as I started singing, girls got say I'd call

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Speaker 3: him and I said, listen, I something we can't take.

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Speaker 3: You know, we had a wrong guide to follow it.

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Speaker 3: And the message is here that you can't change. You

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Speaker 3: can't change.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into the nitty grie, I want to

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Speaker 2: say thanks for John for coming on.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate this.

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Speaker 2: But let's before we get into everything that is exciting

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Speaker 2: in your life, Let's talk about you growing up first

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Speaker 2: and what led you down the path of what you

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Speaker 2: did here.

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Speaker 3: Look, I'm not a great subscriber to an environment. It's

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Speaker 3: responsible for people finished in jail. I think I can

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Speaker 3: contribute to it. But I think I know a lot

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Speaker 3: of people have had tough lives of mood that they

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Speaker 3: have gone on and gone to night school, they've gone

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Speaker 3: to unions, and they haven't they haven't finished in jail

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Speaker 3: or anything like that, but I will say this that

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Speaker 3: I think the thing that lacked in my life, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's like in the lives of a lot

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Speaker 3: of young people, particularly ones are get in trouble, is

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Speaker 3: a mentor. I really think that if you've got a

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Speaker 3: mentor when you're younger, and this is what we should

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Speaker 3: be looking at more and trying to rehabilitate kids. We

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Speaker 3: haven't got the answers to it, particularly now with drugs net.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't have a mentor. I was adopted. I

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Speaker 3: was born in the middle of a Second World War.

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Speaker 3: It was a dysfunctional family. Father he was a pretty

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Speaker 3: good fighter. He's bout my main champion, well away champion

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Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty two travies. That doesn't seem much been

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Speaker 3: in Bealman was a tough steary in Sydney. To somebody

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Speaker 3: said to me, I've spoke the old box. He said,

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Speaker 3: if he was cheating at Balmona in nine and thirty two.

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Speaker 3: He's pretty tough. And he used to when he got

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Speaker 3: drunk kids throw his weight around, pick on people, pick fights.

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Speaker 3: He had us terrorized. I remember sometimes my brother, me

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Speaker 3: and my mother were hiding under the house at house

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Speaker 3: at two am in the morning, we're walking the street.

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Speaker 3: It's too scared to go in. My mother even gave

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Speaker 3: me sleep and tallers to slip into his beer. And

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Speaker 3: you know, if you had caught me doing that, well,

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Speaker 3: and so I was taking ris sleeping, then when do

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Speaker 3: you think of it? I mean, imagine what he had

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Speaker 3: have done if you had caught me. But he had

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Speaker 3: my mother a nervous wreck, you know, just beused her

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Speaker 3: all the time, terrible names, and sometimes the neighbors run.

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Speaker 1: Out mentally, not physically, yeah.

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Speaker 3: More mentally. Yeah, she wouldn't sleep with me. That had

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Speaker 3: a lot to do it. But in those days there

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Speaker 3: was nowhere for women to go turn to. She had

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Speaker 3: to put up. But you know, I'd get embarrassed, particularly

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Speaker 3: when I started took up tennis. I was pretty good

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Speaker 3: at tennis as when in trophies doing for it, and

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Speaker 3: makes had come there and they'd see that four beds

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Speaker 3: was slept in. So John and you shouldn't be embarrassed

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Speaker 3: aout that ship, but I was, you know, and say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we had somebody lie about it. Anyway, my mother took

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Speaker 3: her own life when I was seven. I blamed Dad

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Speaker 3: for it, but it was partly the responsibility the banks

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Speaker 3: and what happened the bank four clothes. We had a

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Speaker 3: pretty good house on that. He tried to borrow more

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Speaker 3: money he would have went okay to get and what happened.

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Speaker 3: They forced him to do it through their own little

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Speaker 3: firm called Custom Credit, which was a credit company and

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Speaker 3: charged about three times the interest with the banks did,

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Speaker 3: and that that forced to lose at home. We finished

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Speaker 3: with the crappiest house in fair for Mom was embarrassed,

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Speaker 3: shamed on it and anyways took her own life. And

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Speaker 3: I blamed the banks too. I was really doing it

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Speaker 3: on banks about what happened then the first night, I

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Speaker 3: just said I'm leaving. When she died that same day,

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Speaker 3: he couldn't believe I was leaving, my father and I

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Speaker 3: said she will fall. What happened? I told him she

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Speaker 3: over those slip tells and.

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Speaker 1: You found out that was it you?

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Speaker 3: Or was it? Hell? No? What happened now? It was

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Speaker 3: a Sunday night, June fifty nine, and woke up with

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Speaker 3: a bump and I heard it, and then I heard

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Speaker 3: my father because I slept in seven rooms going and

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Speaker 3: then he's called out to me and I ran out

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Speaker 3: and Mum was on the floor and she'd fallen off

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Speaker 3: the bed, and he said, quick, go and get a doctor.

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Speaker 3: Your mother's very sick. So I jumped on my pushbike

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Speaker 3: and grabbed in those days used to put two penny

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Speaker 3: pieces in her bloody phone. It's going way back those phones,

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Speaker 3: and jumped on the bike and went down in and

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't believe it. The phone have been vandalized. So

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Speaker 3: we didn't have a phone. We didn't have a car.

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Speaker 3: So this is why I grew up workship at the

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Speaker 3: shol I think, and if we'd have been rich and

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Speaker 3: had these things would have said a life. So I

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Speaker 3: had to go to the next phone about half a

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Speaker 3: mile the way. I rang our doctor I the dockdown

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Speaker 3: and he wouldn't come to phone. The wife come to

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Speaker 3: the phone by bye hours, half two in the morning

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Speaker 3: and and she said he's asleep, he's not coming, and

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Speaker 3: I said, look, she's really sick, and she just hung up.

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Speaker 3: And I knew it was because we owed the money.

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Speaker 3: We owed the doctor money because my mom was always

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Speaker 3: and he's the one who gave us a sleep and

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Speaker 3: tell us. So I was dirty about that. So what

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Speaker 3: I got to know what I did. I didn't have

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Speaker 3: any coins left. I rang again through through the information

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Speaker 3: sort of thing or whatever. It wasn't those days through line,

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, Rember, I think it was that one I

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Speaker 3: won through or something, and they helped. They put me

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Speaker 3: through it to a docktown. It took a couple of minutes.

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Speaker 3: He came straight away, but then he called an ambulance.

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Speaker 3: All by the time ambulance got there, she was nearly dead.

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Speaker 3: That they got to the hospital on it, they couldn't

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Speaker 3: save her. And I always felt, you know, if we'd

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Speaker 3: have been on them get us straight away to hospital.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have a car, yeah, and you know the

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Speaker 3: stuff around with the phones and all that. We didn't

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Speaker 3: even have a phone, so that the banks and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just had a chip on my should. And then

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Speaker 3: so I left, didn't have a lot of money, booked

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Speaker 3: into a bird into a rooming house and didn't have

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Speaker 3: a lot of money. So I shared it with a guy.

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Speaker 3: And it's a big guy, a wrestlant, a big, strong

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Speaker 3: mustley guy. And next thing he's trying to rape me.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't knowing about it about that I was

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Speaker 3: a book. He's sort of kidn never done any and

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Speaker 3: so buddy, it was pretty fit. You know. I just

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Speaker 3: played tennis, running and ride bike, so it was pretty fit.

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Speaker 3: But he was a lot more powerful me. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: he got the message and dropped off, and I was

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Speaker 3: pretty outraged and said I'm getting out of it. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to another room. And he apologized, and I thought

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Speaker 3: he was okay. He apologized, said it never happened again.

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Speaker 3: He get suited. I was struggling mentally, and so what

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Speaker 3: he did he sort of came along with me. A

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Speaker 3: few nights, played played tennis. I stayed there in a

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Speaker 3: different room. I did go in a different room. But

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Speaker 3: he was a crook and he told me he had

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Speaker 3: five different bank books, all the different names. And even

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Speaker 3: in those days, people were ripping of security. He was.

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Speaker 3: He was ripping off security, getting dull, and he shamed me.

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Speaker 3: He's based about it. He was going to the Wrestaurant

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Speaker 3: Championships and Queens and I said, look, can you sign

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Speaker 3: a thing for me? And I want to buy a

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Speaker 3: new tennis rack. And I was split and I got

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Speaker 3: to get on terms. He said yeah. Then he just

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Speaker 3: gave me his signature, and when he was leaving, I

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Speaker 3: saw him. He packed all his bank books and I

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Speaker 3: stole him somehow and I got the case. I grabbed

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Speaker 3: one of the bank books and he didn't know and

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Speaker 3: he said off. I waved him off in the can

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Speaker 3: give you a try of fuck man. I went up

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Speaker 3: and forwards seniors and practice and practice parent got really

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Speaker 3: good at it, but through all the withdrawal forms in

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Speaker 3: the wastepaper, and I'd moved on a different spot too,

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Speaker 3: and I went and moved from Berwi to Stratfield.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I thought I was pretty cunning, you know, and not

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Speaker 3: a crim you know. And went into the bank Ford Senior,

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Speaker 3: first bank rory and past the bank thing and thinking

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get caught. Just simple one give me.

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Speaker 3: I think it was might have been fifty pounds a

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Speaker 3: fair bit of money is probably about three weeks wages.

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Speaker 1: You just you just gave them a note.

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Speaker 3: They just gave in a withdrawal form, the band the

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Speaker 3: bank book, because I had his bank book. In those days,

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Speaker 3: I had these little bank books. I just had the

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Speaker 3: amounts of money. Some of us still got it. I

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Speaker 3: still got it, the old people and I've still got them.

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Speaker 3: But comf and you just what he did was signed

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Speaker 3: the withdrawal form. You fifty pounds sign it. They checked

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Speaker 3: the senior Swedes plans and I thought it was me

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Speaker 3: and gave me the money. I walked out there, but

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Speaker 3: when I got home, the cops wereiting, and the landlord

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Speaker 3: lady came in and cleaned the room saw withdrawal for us,

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Speaker 3: and she realized something was wrong, so they grabbed me

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Speaker 3: and took me to I wouldn't tell them where I lived, right,

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Speaker 3: and I told him nothing, So they put me in

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Speaker 3: Albion Street Boys. I was there at night, but somehow

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Speaker 3: they found out who Dad was and got me. He

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Speaker 3: came and came and buy me out. So that was

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Speaker 3: the first time I went the job, but went home

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Speaker 3: for a night with Dad. An left again and they

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Speaker 3: was hooked up with some kids a bit older me.

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Speaker 3: You know. They taught me to shop lift stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: and we were going to have it. We're going in

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Speaker 3: some of those big department stores, just grabbing stuff and

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Speaker 3: walking out and not even running out, just woken out

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Speaker 3: if a story teach had come. One blake was chasing

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Speaker 3: me and I thought it was going to be a

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Speaker 3: heart attack. I mean, they couldn't catch you. It was

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Speaker 3: so easy in those days. I mean now you've got

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Speaker 3: cameras everywhere. Ye, But yeah, we got away a lot.

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Speaker 3: We'd go into we'd go into cafes and just to

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Speaker 3: all the big merles and run out. This big Greek guy.

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Speaker 3: I caught my mate once, give him a thump and

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Speaker 3: took his jumper off. It was my jumper, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I went back later and paid the merl about

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Speaker 3: a week later and said, give me the jumper back. Good,

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Speaker 3: give me ban He said, your friend, your friend, bad man.

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Speaker 3: But I'd run away too, and thought he thought I

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Speaker 3: was a good guy because I'd come back. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 3: look it's just what happened. It was in Eviti all

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Speaker 3: that time. I was going to we'll get caught. We

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Speaker 3: did a break and on a place this city had

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Speaker 3: come from Blainey Country. My mate introduced her. Look he's

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Speaker 3: he works s fort of pm. That that was like

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Speaker 3: straight of person those days. He said. He delivered the

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Speaker 3: mile to halfle Molly's place. Now half a Molly was

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Speaker 3: champion jog at the time. He rade a horse call

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Speaker 3: burmer At won fifteen straight and it just this gout everybody.

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Speaker 3: The rumor was at Alfle money backed all these horses,

218
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Speaker 3: and you went. They weren't allowed a bit. So he

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Speaker 3: had bags boxes the money under his bed.

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Speaker 1: So that was the room.

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Speaker 3: A lot of jockeys did do that. Someone the train

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Speaker 3: to tell those days, and so we thought, oh geez,

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Speaker 3: you know we're going to score here. We got in. Well,

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Speaker 3: this idiot give us the wrong house, because we got

225
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Speaker 3: in and there were suits and a jockey could have

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Speaker 3: fit in the leg of them. I mean, the guy

227
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Speaker 3: was a big guy, And I said, what the hell

228
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Speaker 3: half of money you kidding? Anyway, we cleaned it out.

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Speaker 3: Three idiots filled up the suitcase and walked out all

230
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Speaker 3: his clothes and a bit of jewelry, and and just

231
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Speaker 3: walked along. Berwin caught a train. But the idiot went

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Speaker 3: to a hot shop the next day and this firing

233
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Speaker 3: you wouldn't leave it happened. He went to a hog shop,

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Speaker 3: tried to honk the stuff, said he'd lost a lot

235
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Speaker 3: of weight and that they were his clothes. Well, you know,

236
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Speaker 3: the pawn brokers like they called the cops, especially in

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Speaker 3: those days like that one. So they got him and

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Speaker 3: he said we made he's give us something and said

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Speaker 3: we made him. Really, So they got us here and

240
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Speaker 3: they just said, look, we're letting him go. He is

241
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Speaker 3: about influence. He's on a country board from Blainey, you know.

242
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Speaker 3: And that was it. So we got frowing and they

243
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Speaker 3: went out the Long Bay. It was pretty tough. I

244
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Speaker 3: mean Long Bay. I was only seven eight and shouldn't

245
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Speaker 3: have been there. I got in a fight the first

246
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Speaker 3: week I was there, German guy playing. I was a

247
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Speaker 3: really good chess player even then I'd been toured by

248
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Speaker 3: Russians and that's pretty good. And its German guy played

249
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Speaker 3: in playing for just for a jar, honey. But that

250
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Speaker 3: that's that's important. It's hard to get, especially in those days.

251
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Speaker 3: You can only get on a buyout three a year.

252
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Speaker 3: And he's young, got the chessboard and whacked me over

253
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Speaker 3: to here with a chess board. Yeah, and so we're

254
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Speaker 3: into it. And my old man had taught me to fight.

255
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Speaker 3: I could handle this off. Yeah, I was fast and fit.

256
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Speaker 3: But so I got best of him. So this old

257
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Speaker 3: guy came out of me. I was sharing to sell

258
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Speaker 3: of him and my mate. He said, listen, he said,

259
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Speaker 3: you've done well, and the screws let it go with me.

260
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Speaker 3: In those days, if you weren't bloody killing somebody, he said,

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Speaker 3: Look he said, I don't get carried away. He said,

262
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Speaker 3: he's guys, and he said, it's good you've done that,

263
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Speaker 3: because young guys were getting raped in there. At the

264
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Speaker 3: young guy got raped in the shower, he said, some

265
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Speaker 3: of these guys. But you want to hear me on

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Speaker 3: her back, he said, I'm telling you. He said, so,

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Speaker 3: don't get carried away. And he was right. There were

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Speaker 3: some tough guys here, and he said, don't go on

269
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Speaker 3: to sell alone woman, don't go stay free out with ars, etcetera,

270
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Speaker 3: et cetera. And he just gave me the grand rules.

271
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Speaker 3: But what I did learn I learned the code, you know,

272
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Speaker 3: the criminal code. It was there three months, and I learned.

273
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Speaker 3: You know that you don't give anybody up. It's the

274
00:14:03,561 --> 00:14:07,921
Speaker 3: wrong thing to give anyone up. And if somebody's kicking

275
00:14:07,921 --> 00:14:09,921
Speaker 3: somebody in their head and bashing them, you walk away.

276
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Speaker 3: The criminal code it turns our normal ethics upside down.

277
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Speaker 3: And when you subscribe to it, it's hard to unsubscribe

278
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Speaker 3: to it when you step back in a normal world,

279
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Speaker 3: when you've got to step back in and live a

280
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Speaker 3: normal life. And so many either today, so many young

281
00:14:25,041 --> 00:14:28,361
Speaker 3: ones hooking enterities, and it's even worse now with drugs.

282
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Speaker 3: There were no drugs when I was there those days,

283
00:14:31,241 --> 00:14:35,641
Speaker 3: there were no drugs, and so anyone will really give

284
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Speaker 3: someone up. They go on protection. I remember I went

285
00:14:37,801 --> 00:14:40,841
Speaker 3: to Golden and there was only one going protection. You

286
00:14:40,921 --> 00:14:44,081
Speaker 3: go to Golden now half and that's the fact. So

287
00:14:44,881 --> 00:14:51,161
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a logistic night, you know, administrative nightmare.

288
00:14:51,201 --> 00:14:53,241
Speaker 3: I think to try and run golb and I wouldn't

289
00:14:53,281 --> 00:14:54,841
Speaker 3: like to be trying to route it because you've got

290
00:14:54,841 --> 00:14:57,761
Speaker 3: the protection. You've got what they've done now they split

291
00:14:57,761 --> 00:15:02,121
Speaker 3: it up. You've got you've got the Indigenous yard, then

292
00:15:02,161 --> 00:15:05,601
Speaker 3: you've got the you got the Muslim yard. Then you've

293
00:15:05,601 --> 00:15:10,481
Speaker 3: got the Ousi Asians, Osio Islands protections, protection from protections.

294
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Speaker 3: Then over there got this big wing protection from protection

295
00:15:13,281 --> 00:15:16,681
Speaker 3: from protection. And you've got thirds and pedophiles here. And

296
00:15:16,681 --> 00:15:19,161
Speaker 3: the murders said, then you've got super max. I mean,

297
00:15:19,561 --> 00:15:21,681
Speaker 3: and if you're going to a visit, you're not allowd

298
00:15:21,801 --> 00:15:24,481
Speaker 3: if a protection is coming, you're not allowing going out

299
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Speaker 3: at the same time, So you might be waiting an

300
00:15:26,561 --> 00:15:28,641
Speaker 3: hour if you visit. I mean, it's just just a

301
00:15:29,321 --> 00:15:33,281
Speaker 3: shocking set up and the floor and that is they

302
00:15:33,321 --> 00:15:36,281
Speaker 3: had about seven or eight killings in Garblin in the nineties.

303
00:15:36,681 --> 00:15:38,161
Speaker 3: They called it the Killing film. So it was that

304
00:15:38,281 --> 00:15:41,881
Speaker 3: bad go it's just they're coming and do the mustard.

305
00:15:41,921 --> 00:15:44,481
Speaker 3: Somebody be covered up with a blanket. And there was

306
00:15:44,521 --> 00:15:47,761
Speaker 3: one case these Asians turn on his guy and one

307
00:15:47,801 --> 00:15:49,881
Speaker 3: little Asian just run up. There's a big tough going

308
00:15:50,161 --> 00:15:53,081
Speaker 3: run up behind him, pinned his arms and then the

309
00:15:53,121 --> 00:15:56,281
Speaker 3: other was running. He fell on the ground about fifty

310
00:15:56,321 --> 00:15:58,561
Speaker 3: six flty stad was in before you think he's dead

311
00:15:58,561 --> 00:16:01,841
Speaker 3: before hit the ground, and I mean, I don't care.

312
00:16:02,601 --> 00:16:04,321
Speaker 3: You're not going to cape with it, you know. And

313
00:16:05,241 --> 00:16:07,881
Speaker 3: so a lot of tough guys got killed standing over him,

314
00:16:07,921 --> 00:16:10,361
Speaker 3: in on you, a few of them. But that was

315
00:16:10,401 --> 00:16:14,481
Speaker 3: before I hit with with a helicopter which goes through it.

316
00:16:14,521 --> 00:16:16,961
Speaker 3: But in those days, jar was tough.

317
00:16:17,681 --> 00:16:20,601
Speaker 2: But it changed you, like the change when you know,

318
00:16:20,761 --> 00:16:22,801
Speaker 2: like when you've gone inside and then when you got

319
00:16:22,801 --> 00:16:25,041
Speaker 2: released from like from a long way event.

320
00:16:25,441 --> 00:16:27,801
Speaker 1: Yeah, did it make you.

321
00:16:29,081 --> 00:16:31,281
Speaker 2: Worse in a way where you know, like with crime

322
00:16:31,401 --> 00:16:34,401
Speaker 2: or did or did you.

323
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Speaker 3: Know it should have? I should have looked. Look three

324
00:16:37,401 --> 00:16:40,401
Speaker 3: guys in a cell lights off at nine. No no

325
00:16:40,521 --> 00:16:43,481
Speaker 3: radio in those days, no, no, too lucky if you

326
00:16:43,521 --> 00:16:46,081
Speaker 3: get a paperback books if you like it, you're around

327
00:16:46,081 --> 00:16:48,321
Speaker 3: the yard all day, a little shad if it's raining

328
00:16:48,321 --> 00:16:51,961
Speaker 3: and you're on showers. I think three times a week

329
00:16:52,081 --> 00:16:55,241
Speaker 3: you got in you'll show together and this buddy nightmare.

330
00:16:55,961 --> 00:16:57,841
Speaker 3: To be lucky, you got to watch you don't get

331
00:16:57,841 --> 00:17:01,481
Speaker 3: buddy stabbed or something. I mean, it was. It was tough.

332
00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:05,201
Speaker 3: The meals were terrible, absolutely terrible. No phone calls, so

333
00:17:05,361 --> 00:17:08,161
Speaker 3: you lost contact everybody. If you got to visit, you're

334
00:17:08,201 --> 00:17:10,521
Speaker 3: like enough to get a visit. It was you had

335
00:17:10,521 --> 00:17:12,881
Speaker 3: the white grading between the screw stand right next year

336
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,841
Speaker 3: there's a twenty minute visit once a fortnite. I mean,

337
00:17:16,201 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 3: relationships can't exist under that. You can't if you write

338
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 3: a letter, if you're one page letter, you have to

339
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,201
Speaker 3: write a pen and ink and you take that page down.

340
00:17:25,801 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 3: You only do one a week. Shot that the screw

341
00:17:27,721 --> 00:17:33,321
Speaker 3: he'd go up now going right. If you didn't like it,

342
00:17:34,801 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 3: say how the hell you wouldn't say to yourself? I

343
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,281
Speaker 3: just never going back there. But I didn't know. I

344
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 3: was the opposite. I don't know why, but I was

345
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 3: the opposite. I was dirty, I had chip on my shot.

346
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 3: I sort of blaming everyone but myself, this shouldn't have

347
00:17:49,441 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 3: happened to me. Fuck them, I'll start robbing banks. I

348
00:17:53,681 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 3: decided it was going to become a bank robber just

349
00:17:55,921 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 3: the well, not that time. People told me, you know

350
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 3: that there weren't many bank robbers at the time. There weren't.

351
00:18:02,961 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 3: But what I did. I came back in. I tried

352
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,281
Speaker 3: to escape, you know, I just turn it on and

353
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,561
Speaker 3: try to escape from bapist. There were four was going

354
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,761
Speaker 3: to go and and two cops showed a time sign

355
00:18:17,721 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 3: of the times because we're going in a court. They

356
00:18:20,281 --> 00:18:24,001
Speaker 3: didn't handcuffs, And I said, three young ones and the

357
00:18:24,281 --> 00:18:27,361
Speaker 3: other one and women caught for Robin the Western stores.

358
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,481
Speaker 3: They come up got me. I only wasn't in Bold

359
00:18:29,561 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 3: that they come and got me. I was going with

360
00:18:31,001 --> 00:18:34,321
Speaker 3: this guy's sister in Orange had gone up there. I

361
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 3: was digging potatoes. Dad was proud of me from diggingmation.

362
00:18:39,441 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 3: You know. You finally they said, finally was somebody I

363
00:18:46,921 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 3: was digging potatoes. You know, that was the attitude of

364
00:18:49,721 --> 00:18:52,561
Speaker 3: my father. He always said, you know, you're the son

365
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,881
Speaker 3: of a working man. He's got a cart. Shit do it.

366
00:18:55,961 --> 00:18:59,081
Speaker 3: But you know, so I was going with the guy.

367
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,161
Speaker 3: I sist they went to town. They came back and

368
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 3: Sydney about this Western stores. And so they had a guy, Taffy,

369
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 3: he's about thirty five. Two young guys about my age

370
00:19:11,721 --> 00:19:13,761
Speaker 3: that I was friends. I was with barbering and they said,

371
00:19:13,761 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 3: come on, let's go, and we're doing the West stores.

372
00:19:15,961 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 3: She said, don't go. I said, look, everything's final soon tomorrow.

373
00:19:18,921 --> 00:19:20,681
Speaker 3: I never never saw it again. Jump jump in the car.

374
00:19:20,761 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 3: We went. They lowered me down from the top of

375
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,801
Speaker 3: the thing. We got about I think it was twenty

376
00:19:27,201 --> 00:19:30,321
Speaker 3: pounds with a gear jeweling stuff. It was pretty good.

377
00:19:30,761 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money in those days, nine to

378
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,880
Speaker 3: sixty pounds. He took them bloody, maybe three four hundred

379
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 3: fairs and dollars. But we had the car loaded. But

380
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,401
Speaker 3: guess what, it ran out of petrol coming to lift

381
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 3: cat and I couldn't believe it. And then he tied

382
00:19:46,681 --> 00:19:48,681
Speaker 3: it was stylen car. That's why he couldn't fill up.

383
00:19:49,681 --> 00:19:53,281
Speaker 3: And in those days was a different setup. They used

384
00:19:53,281 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 3: to come and do it themselves in the station and

385
00:19:56,721 --> 00:19:59,001
Speaker 3: they were siphon and petrol, and the cops came. They

386
00:19:59,001 --> 00:20:02,601
Speaker 3: got us buddies. So we went to the lift batist.

387
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,921
Speaker 3: It was pretty tough, and so I used to look,

388
00:20:06,921 --> 00:20:08,681
Speaker 3: we can escape, and that was the plan. The four

389
00:20:08,721 --> 00:20:11,961
Speaker 3: should run with only two cops. But when it happened,

390
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,521
Speaker 3: the old the old sides in his front. I just

391
00:20:15,561 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 3: shoved him and he stumbled forward, and one of my mates,

392
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:26,521
Speaker 3: when I helped him up, you're right. And I tooked off,

393
00:20:26,521 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 3: and the other I said, good luck, Johnny. All the

394
00:20:29,001 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 3: other cops come after me, and he's fired shots at me,

395
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,441
Speaker 3: and I heard him, and I just knew I'd read

396
00:20:34,481 --> 00:20:36,441
Speaker 3: somewhere that if you hear it, you know I haven't

397
00:20:36,441 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 3: been hit because the speed is ound. So I ripped

398
00:20:39,441 --> 00:20:41,761
Speaker 3: off my pullover. I was really dirt and the others

399
00:20:41,761 --> 00:20:45,801
Speaker 3: not coming, and ripped off the pillover. I ran about

400
00:20:45,801 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: about a half a mile away and sirens of me.

401
00:20:49,241 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 3: I thought, if I lay load until dark and still

402
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,001
Speaker 3: a pushbike and go, that's what I was going to do.

403
00:20:57,561 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 3: So I hid in a chuck pen, which I thought

404
00:20:59,921 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: was a win an idea, but the old lady wouldn't believe.

405
00:21:02,801 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 3: Chatting lady, I must thought I was trying to pincerchuck.

406
00:21:05,721 --> 00:21:08,281
Speaker 3: She heard it and she saw me in there, and

407
00:21:08,321 --> 00:21:12,561
Speaker 3: then were being quiet and down and when the cops

408
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 3: they were walking past. She's gone there. They got me.

409
00:21:16,321 --> 00:21:17,921
Speaker 3: They give me a bit of a hide and two

410
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,401
Speaker 3: and then they put me in this black cell. And

411
00:21:22,441 --> 00:21:24,481
Speaker 3: this caused a big stink later at the Royal Commission

412
00:21:24,481 --> 00:21:27,641
Speaker 3: because I testisfied about it and what they did. They

413
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,281
Speaker 3: stripped me off, put me in a cell and blank.

414
00:21:29,321 --> 00:21:33,001
Speaker 3: You can't scend inside it. And you go in into

415
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 3: you went into a boot division, which is the men's division,

416
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 3: opened up one cell, coming a little carroll down and

417
00:21:39,241 --> 00:21:41,761
Speaker 3: open up others on this talley pitch blake can't see it.

418
00:21:42,321 --> 00:21:45,441
Speaker 3: Left me there in the middle of winter, no clothes,

419
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 3: bread and water for two days. That was it. And

420
00:21:50,201 --> 00:21:52,281
Speaker 3: I mean I was doing that. That really tough me out.

421
00:21:52,561 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 3: It really tough me up because I remember walking up

422
00:21:54,921 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 3: and down. But I've always been an optimist, you know,

423
00:21:58,241 --> 00:22:01,521
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, you know, but this is the

424
00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: best they can do. I was walking up down here

425
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 3: acoustic great and ourselves. I started singing. I thought, singing

426
00:22:08,921 --> 00:22:13,961
Speaker 3: all these songs that sounded good. Girls could see me now.

427
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it didn't. It didn't break you what they

428
00:22:16,281 --> 00:22:16,801
Speaker 1: were trying to do.

429
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,641
Speaker 3: That made me more determined. Yeah, it made me more determined.

430
00:22:19,721 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 3: And so that's I eventually become a bank run. And

431
00:22:23,441 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 3: the thing is for banks, you got to look. I

432
00:22:26,521 --> 00:22:30,281
Speaker 3: was singing about bank in sixty five and I got

433
00:22:30,281 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 3: out from Bafast and what happened. People were always talking

434
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,041
Speaker 3: about Robin Bens. Nobody ever did it. And the reason

435
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,841
Speaker 3: was that the bank tellers and the manager they were

436
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: training with pistol. Label had pistols. People didn't rules they

437
00:22:44,441 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: had pistols, and and they used to go to training

438
00:22:47,921 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 3: so that they were pretty good shots, probably better shots

439
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,601
Speaker 3: than the crops. So guys knew if they ran in there,

440
00:22:53,681 --> 00:22:57,241
Speaker 3: they're taking a risk getting shot. And the only bank

441
00:22:57,321 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: rollers I knew about apart from America, like the famous

442
00:22:59,961 --> 00:23:02,801
Speaker 3: one was stilling to you, was dead. Willie Sutton was dead,

443
00:23:03,921 --> 00:23:06,801
Speaker 3: the famous ones. And then we had Simmons and new

444
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,201
Speaker 3: Comb that robbed the bank, and Simms robbed the bank

445
00:23:10,241 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty nine. Then they escaped in nineteen fifty nine.

446
00:23:16,521 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: It's about October and just the biggest manhn't Astralian history.

447
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,281
Speaker 3: Sim and Newman they're still writing books about this book.

448
00:23:24,281 --> 00:23:27,041
Speaker 3: Can just come out about it now. And they actually

449
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,761
Speaker 3: went when I told I went into John in nineteen

450
00:23:28,761 --> 00:23:30,881
Speaker 3: sixty they were is Simmers and Newham just been caught.

451
00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 3: They had him in in they had him there in

452
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: the observation and the guys near here said they were

453
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 3: flogging him every night. They could hear me on out there.

454
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,961
Speaker 3: They used to run in every night and there because

455
00:23:41,961 --> 00:23:45,441
Speaker 3: the screw got killed. What happened they when they escaped,

456
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,521
Speaker 3: They got over to the Long Bay and they watching

457
00:23:47,761 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 3: John Wain Weston and they cut the bars and the

458
00:23:52,201 --> 00:23:54,001
Speaker 3: screws were watching the movie too, and they got out,

459
00:23:54,561 --> 00:23:58,041
Speaker 3: got over the wall and went to Amy Planes which

460
00:23:58,041 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: the minimal security one of the burning before broke in

461
00:24:01,281 --> 00:24:03,761
Speaker 3: where they knew the food was and the weapons and

462
00:24:03,961 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: screws sprung and there was a struggle and sued and

463
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,761
Speaker 3: the screw got killed. They killed him there, so so

464
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,801
Speaker 3: you imagine the impetus of the man hunt. They got

465
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,801
Speaker 3: Newgom Early Simmons skimming my head around his bare feet

466
00:24:18,441 --> 00:24:22,121
Speaker 3: in the National Park out near Wyle, and they even

467
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,121
Speaker 3: brought track and dog special track of dogs from South

468
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,561
Speaker 3: Australia to catch him. And he's a real good looking

469
00:24:26,561 --> 00:24:29,761
Speaker 3: guy and he become a bit of a folk hero,

470
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: which is ridiculous, but that's the media. If the media

471
00:24:32,961 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: play something up and I was down in Melbourne. I

472
00:24:36,521 --> 00:24:38,241
Speaker 3: was seven and I was down in Melbourne. I was

473
00:24:38,281 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: going with an Austrian girl and they're all talking, all

474
00:24:41,041 --> 00:24:44,401
Speaker 3: of her and the friends talking about Simmons even down there.

475
00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:47,761
Speaker 3: And then my girlfriend said he could put his shoes

476
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,641
Speaker 3: under my bed. Shaddy, you know, you know he said,

477
00:24:51,721 --> 00:24:57,001
Speaker 3: bank Robberie's a killer fan. I'm a good guy. Yeah,

478
00:24:57,041 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 3: you just kids standing on it. When you're young. You

479
00:24:58,921 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: don't understand this stuff. But that they can't glorify that stuff.

480
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,321
Speaker 3: And anyway, Simmons was found hanged in nine and sixty

481
00:25:07,321 --> 00:25:10,041
Speaker 3: six with his hands tight on his back. A lot

482
00:25:10,041 --> 00:25:13,361
Speaker 3: of people say that he was murdered by the screws,

483
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,281
Speaker 3: and well they think that they just run in and

484
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 3: killed him. And he was a draft and he got

485
00:25:19,241 --> 00:25:21,561
Speaker 3: flogged every night up there for a few years. It

486
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,041
Speaker 3: was a bad place. They had a Royal commission in

487
00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:26,001
Speaker 3: the graft and you've probably heard about it. But he

488
00:25:26,561 --> 00:25:28,961
Speaker 3: made friends with guy called Darcy Dugan up there. He

489
00:25:29,001 --> 00:25:34,521
Speaker 3: was very Australian, very famous bank robber escape and Darcy

490
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 3: there's books out about him too. He's probably the most

491
00:25:37,681 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 3: famous escape of all the bankweyer. Simmons introduced Darcy to

492
00:25:42,761 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: his sister. His sister was a journalist. She finished up

493
00:25:45,241 --> 00:25:48,321
Speaker 3: marrying Darce, didn't didn't last very long. What happened is

494
00:25:48,561 --> 00:25:52,001
Speaker 3: she forced an inquiry in the Simmons death in sixty six.

495
00:25:52,521 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 3: But they said, no natural, I don't know how to Well,

496
00:25:55,241 --> 00:25:59,721
Speaker 3: you can get your hands on yourself, but those sort

497
00:25:59,761 --> 00:26:02,041
Speaker 3: of things you're never going to win. Those sort of

498
00:26:02,761 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 3: sort of things nobody cares rightly. Anyway, he was a

499
00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 3: murderer and he was escaping in a bank robbin and

500
00:26:09,801 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: so that that story on Simmon and new But the

501
00:26:12,761 --> 00:26:14,561
Speaker 3: thing is the one of the ones I knew about

502
00:26:14,681 --> 00:26:18,241
Speaker 3: Darcy Durgan doing life, Siman's doing life. Why would I

503
00:26:18,241 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 3: want to rob banks? But I didn't because and they

504
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,801
Speaker 3: got guns because I thought I looked around, no cameras

505
00:26:25,681 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: in those days. They were a push out. He just

506
00:26:28,721 --> 00:26:31,721
Speaker 3: walked in, pointed a gun, said want the money and

507
00:26:31,801 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: run out. And then if you're unlucky and they're going

508
00:26:34,761 --> 00:26:35,761
Speaker 3: to come after your guns.

509
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: But I was, have you ever used to going before

510
00:26:38,561 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: but to do any of the robberies?

511
00:26:39,921 --> 00:26:44,321
Speaker 3: No, I don't, never don't. We did. We did one robbery,

512
00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:48,521
Speaker 3: one robbery. My mate got a replica in George Street.

513
00:26:48,681 --> 00:26:51,041
Speaker 3: In those days, you can just buy those reports. And

514
00:26:50,561 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 3: he said, I have a look at that. And I said,

515
00:26:53,681 --> 00:26:57,481
Speaker 3: you know where'd you get that? He said, listen, he said,

516
00:26:57,481 --> 00:27:00,041
Speaker 3: what we'll do? He said, we'll go in a Fairfield

517
00:27:00,041 --> 00:27:07,041
Speaker 3: part will Robert drunk. That's that's the scope of the thinking,

518
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,281
Speaker 3: you know. I said, no, why don't we go to

519
00:27:09,281 --> 00:27:11,441
Speaker 3: the runway size? I said, no, I know where there's

520
00:27:11,441 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: a bloody whole heap of money. Every Sunday night they cleaned,

521
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,281
Speaker 3: they put train comes past night, they pick up the manor.

522
00:27:17,281 --> 00:27:19,001
Speaker 3: I said, to be at least one thousand pounds that's

523
00:27:19,321 --> 00:27:22,561
Speaker 3: the money, maybe more. He said, no, that's been hard,

524
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,041
Speaker 3: he said. He said, look trust me, he said, drunkle

525
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,721
Speaker 3: be easy. He said, Friday nights, he said, they all

526
00:27:29,801 --> 00:27:34,801
Speaker 3: but paid. So it actually happened. We're waiting there and

527
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,801
Speaker 3: in Fairfield Park near Villa. Were there near Caramera and

528
00:27:40,321 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 3: sure you just wanted to leave. A drunk comes along.

529
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,601
Speaker 3: I never he was whistling, singing the blues. I'll never

530
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,481
Speaker 3: forget it. And we run out and my mate said,

531
00:27:49,561 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: come on, give us your money, Pop, give us your money,

532
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,961
Speaker 3: and he said, he said, what what what's this? He said,

533
00:27:55,961 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: a hold up, give us your money and he said okay.

534
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,041
Speaker 3: He said, if he's wanted, and he said, but he said,

535
00:28:03,041 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: you know what's going to happen, And I said, it's

536
00:28:05,241 --> 00:28:08,441
Speaker 3: going to happen. He said, my land lady is tough

537
00:28:08,481 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 3: and if I don't pay the rent, she'll touch me out.

538
00:28:11,681 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 3: And she said, and I've got nowhere to go. I

539
00:28:16,681 --> 00:28:18,441
Speaker 3: said you sure? You said yees, so I'd call him

540
00:28:18,441 --> 00:28:22,561
Speaker 3: and I said, listen. I said, we can't take you.

541
00:28:23,721 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: He said, well, look we'll just take harm this man.

542
00:28:25,761 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: I said, now we can't take his money many so

543
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,281
Speaker 3: we come over, gave him his walk back, said it's

544
00:28:31,281 --> 00:28:34,041
Speaker 3: all right, you go. He said no, no, no, I

545
00:28:34,041 --> 00:28:37,281
Speaker 3: can't leave. You said, you boys, you risk jail for this.

546
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:40,321
Speaker 3: He said, you take the money. We said no, no,

547
00:28:40,961 --> 00:28:46,561
Speaker 3: we're arguing. Take some money. And in the end him said, look,

548
00:28:46,801 --> 00:28:49,441
Speaker 3: I take the fan and go. You know. He said,

549
00:28:49,441 --> 00:28:51,401
Speaker 3: all right, boys, or he said, but you two of

550
00:28:51,481 --> 00:28:53,281
Speaker 3: the nicest boys I ever met. And he said you know,

551
00:28:53,441 --> 00:28:55,161
Speaker 3: he said you got a heart, you got a heart,

552
00:28:55,561 --> 00:28:57,841
Speaker 3: and he just left. And that was that was the

553
00:28:57,841 --> 00:29:00,401
Speaker 3: only time I've ever got in bold and that's fairing.

554
00:29:00,601 --> 00:29:02,841
Speaker 3: And because I thought this could be my father coming

555
00:29:02,841 --> 00:29:04,881
Speaker 3: from you. I mean, he's a drunk iron give me

556
00:29:04,921 --> 00:29:11,921
Speaker 3: a break. But he wasn't scared scared. He's just give

557
00:29:12,001 --> 00:29:13,561
Speaker 3: us some money if you want it. But I'm going

558
00:29:13,601 --> 00:29:16,161
Speaker 3: to get tossed out. And that's the true story. You

559
00:29:16,201 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: wouldn't make something like that. And so what happened. I

560
00:29:20,521 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 3: talked Jim and I said, look, let's rob the railway

561
00:29:24,841 --> 00:29:27,561
Speaker 3: that I'm talking about. We'll get affairs at least. So

562
00:29:28,121 --> 00:29:31,041
Speaker 3: he said, all right. Well, the idea was when the

563
00:29:31,081 --> 00:29:34,481
Speaker 3: train came on Sunday nights. They came and they had

564
00:29:34,521 --> 00:29:36,921
Speaker 3: a big safe on a train because I'd watched it

565
00:29:37,001 --> 00:29:39,321
Speaker 3: in the in the in the stations would make up

566
00:29:39,321 --> 00:29:42,161
Speaker 3: the money, put in a leaver, little lever patch that

567
00:29:42,201 --> 00:29:44,081
Speaker 3: it'd come out of it as the train come through.

568
00:29:44,081 --> 00:29:45,801
Speaker 3: It was always between eight and nine o'clock at night.

569
00:29:45,921 --> 00:29:48,121
Speaker 3: They'd hand it to him. And I think that was

570
00:29:48,161 --> 00:29:50,801
Speaker 3: all the weekend taken. And I thought, what we'll do

571
00:29:51,281 --> 00:29:55,841
Speaker 3: before the train comes. We'll run in there and we'll

572
00:29:55,841 --> 00:29:59,881
Speaker 3: stick him up and get the lever thing. But you

573
00:29:59,881 --> 00:30:03,161
Speaker 3: wouldn't believe it across on the other side of a station.

574
00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:06,921
Speaker 3: And Jim saw it is gone biggest score about six

575
00:30:06,961 --> 00:30:10,961
Speaker 3: foot four huge, and Jim said, I know. He said.

576
00:30:11,281 --> 00:30:13,161
Speaker 3: I said, look, we got a gun. He said, doesn't work.

577
00:30:13,441 --> 00:30:16,281
Speaker 3: It doesn't work, which is right, it was didn't work.

578
00:30:16,521 --> 00:30:18,521
Speaker 3: And he said if he wakes up, it's not a

579
00:30:18,521 --> 00:30:21,281
Speaker 3: real gun. He said, he will kill us. I said, no,

580
00:30:21,401 --> 00:30:23,361
Speaker 3: come on, John, I said. He said, no, I'm not

581
00:30:23,401 --> 00:30:25,121
Speaker 3: doing it. I'm not doing it. I said, I'm going

582
00:30:25,121 --> 00:30:26,321
Speaker 3: to do it. I said, we come to this front,

583
00:30:26,321 --> 00:30:29,641
Speaker 3: I'm going to do it. So he waited, Jim waited,

584
00:30:30,121 --> 00:30:33,761
Speaker 3: and I went in. I went into a toilet and

585
00:30:34,081 --> 00:30:36,801
Speaker 3: the train. I thought, what I'll do is wait the

586
00:30:36,881 --> 00:30:38,601
Speaker 3: train before I was going to do it. So when

587
00:30:38,601 --> 00:30:41,801
Speaker 3: the train comes, people get off, and then he comes out,

588
00:30:42,161 --> 00:30:43,921
Speaker 3: gets your tickets and then goes back. And I was

589
00:30:43,961 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: going to grab him as he went back. So I

590
00:30:46,241 --> 00:30:50,241
Speaker 3: went into the toilet and the train train was coming.

591
00:30:50,281 --> 00:30:52,001
Speaker 3: I went into a toilet and I had a bag

592
00:30:52,281 --> 00:30:54,081
Speaker 3: with the gun in it. And I'll never forget this.

593
00:30:54,881 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: I was going to put the mask on it. And

594
00:30:56,481 --> 00:30:59,521
Speaker 3: there were three toilets there. They had a little cure

595
00:30:59,561 --> 00:31:01,641
Speaker 3: because you put a penny in them and it opened

596
00:31:01,641 --> 00:31:05,321
Speaker 3: the thing. And I noticed one was a jar, and

597
00:31:05,561 --> 00:31:08,081
Speaker 3: I thought that someone's in there, you know. So I

598
00:31:08,241 --> 00:31:11,281
Speaker 3: just just about to put the mask on and opened

599
00:31:11,361 --> 00:31:15,161
Speaker 3: this little boat with a suit come out and he said, Gray,

600
00:31:16,601 --> 00:31:19,601
Speaker 3: you wouldn't believe us out and I said, he said,

601
00:31:19,841 --> 00:31:21,561
Speaker 3: and he came up real close and he was dressed

602
00:31:21,561 --> 00:31:24,921
Speaker 3: in a suit. He said, guess what just happened? I said, no,

603
00:31:25,041 --> 00:31:27,041
Speaker 3: what what what happened? I cursed on it. He's going

604
00:31:27,121 --> 00:31:30,001
Speaker 3: to I can't do this now. I don't know what happened.

605
00:31:30,041 --> 00:31:33,041
Speaker 3: And he said, A bloake just sucked the boy off

606
00:31:33,041 --> 00:31:40,561
Speaker 3: for a pound note. I hated this guy. I said,

607
00:31:40,721 --> 00:31:42,681
Speaker 3: you know, well that that's it is. I was, you know,

608
00:31:43,441 --> 00:31:45,761
Speaker 3: and he said, and his eyes were glistened, and he said,

609
00:31:46,081 --> 00:31:48,361
Speaker 3: would you have done it for a pound note? I

610
00:31:48,401 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: said no, no, I wouldn't have and went to go

611
00:31:51,321 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: and he said for two pounds? I said, I whipped

612
00:31:55,241 --> 00:31:58,321
Speaker 3: out pistol and how did you want to suck this

613
00:31:58,401 --> 00:32:04,161
Speaker 3: for nothing? I put it in his mouth, you know.

614
00:32:04,161 --> 00:32:05,801
Speaker 3: I pushed him in into I was getting there, and

615
00:32:07,321 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: so I robbed him and he was trembling all that,

616
00:32:09,521 --> 00:32:10,881
Speaker 3: and it turned out he had a lot of money

617
00:32:11,161 --> 00:32:14,241
Speaker 3: under his collar. Money had it all wrapped around there.

618
00:32:14,761 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: So I got about fifty quid off him, and they

619
00:32:17,601 --> 00:32:20,601
Speaker 3: they engaged in those days, used to have to take

620
00:32:20,681 --> 00:32:22,921
Speaker 3: risking tours. They hadn't nowhere to go, and so I

621
00:32:23,001 --> 00:32:26,401
Speaker 3: used to hide their money. And so around now, I

622
00:32:26,401 --> 00:32:30,641
Speaker 3: didn't tell Jim, I've got the money. So he's telling him.

623
00:32:30,681 --> 00:32:34,841
Speaker 3: But while I had the guy on the toilet, the

624
00:32:34,881 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: bloody runway guy come in. They have a piss. So

625
00:32:37,241 --> 00:32:39,921
Speaker 3: I had the guy in the toilet, so he feels

626
00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:41,681
Speaker 3: and I'm going to shoot him. Was a toy gun

627
00:32:41,961 --> 00:32:45,401
Speaker 3: and he's tremblin and the guy this big guys and

628
00:32:45,441 --> 00:32:48,121
Speaker 3: a piss. Well, god knows what would have happened if

629
00:32:48,121 --> 00:32:50,161
Speaker 3: you had got one. What's happening. We got away with that,

630
00:32:50,321 --> 00:32:54,561
Speaker 3: But it made me realize that if I'm going to

631
00:32:54,601 --> 00:32:57,201
Speaker 3: do any I'm going to go and I'm going to run,

632
00:32:57,401 --> 00:32:58,681
Speaker 3: I'm going to rob a bank. I'm going to take

633
00:32:58,681 --> 00:33:01,081
Speaker 3: a risk and rob a bank. All that petty stuff.

634
00:33:01,681 --> 00:33:03,561
Speaker 1: And so what was your first bank that you're up?

635
00:33:03,801 --> 00:33:10,361
Speaker 3: The first bank was late January nineteen sixty six, County Heights.

636
00:33:10,521 --> 00:33:12,761
Speaker 3: The reason I did that I knew the area and

637
00:33:13,401 --> 00:33:16,441
Speaker 3: pretty well then. I always looked for good getaway. There

638
00:33:16,441 --> 00:33:18,201
Speaker 3: was a school around a bit back behind the bank,

639
00:33:18,241 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: and there was school holidays coming to do in the

640
00:33:20,961 --> 00:33:24,681
Speaker 3: school in January, and I just come out in a

641
00:33:24,721 --> 00:33:28,521
Speaker 3: little pass away, run in to the bank, run out across.

642
00:33:28,161 --> 00:33:30,201
Speaker 1: The You did the bank robberies by yourself?

643
00:33:30,361 --> 00:33:33,281
Speaker 3: First one? I didn't. First one, I didn't. I approached

644
00:33:33,321 --> 00:33:36,361
Speaker 3: the guy was in a place called play Land in Pittstreet.

645
00:33:36,361 --> 00:33:40,961
Speaker 3: It's not there anymore, but they had all these bloody

646
00:33:41,001 --> 00:33:43,321
Speaker 3: pinball machines and all that. You know. I went up

647
00:33:43,561 --> 00:33:45,641
Speaker 3: trying to find a guy and picked the guy looked

648
00:33:45,641 --> 00:33:48,961
Speaker 3: down and he's like that, and he had bad too, tire.

649
00:33:49,361 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: I knew he was down. He's like, I see if

650
00:33:51,001 --> 00:33:53,881
Speaker 3: he'd never been in any trouble. He said yeah, and

651
00:33:54,281 --> 00:33:57,521
Speaker 3: he had. He'd been a long bay and got talking nice. Look,

652
00:33:57,681 --> 00:33:59,881
Speaker 3: I want to do a robbery. You're interested, he said.

653
00:34:00,841 --> 00:34:02,761
Speaker 3: I said a bank, and he turned white. You know

654
00:34:04,161 --> 00:34:08,481
Speaker 3: you just didn't lob bank, He said, Oh, I always

655
00:34:08,481 --> 00:34:11,641
Speaker 3: wanted to wrong the bank. He said, this is your chance.

656
00:34:11,921 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 3: But on the way there, we're not to eye knocked

657
00:34:14,441 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 3: the car at Stratfield f J Holing. You pretty easy.

658
00:34:18,041 --> 00:34:19,881
Speaker 3: Used to do them with silver paper on your edition

659
00:34:20,441 --> 00:34:24,641
Speaker 3: and got taught this by kids. And we're going and

660
00:34:24,801 --> 00:34:27,481
Speaker 3: he needed a scotch, then said to stop and getting

661
00:34:27,641 --> 00:34:31,321
Speaker 3: a scotch. Yeah, And by the time we got to

662
00:34:31,441 --> 00:34:33,961
Speaker 3: County Heights, I could see he just didn't want to

663
00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: do it. So I said, look what we'll do. I said,

664
00:34:37,521 --> 00:34:39,841
Speaker 3: you going to pretend you're a customer. I said, I'll

665
00:34:39,881 --> 00:34:42,721
Speaker 3: come in behind you. Stick the bank up, I said,

666
00:34:42,761 --> 00:34:46,121
Speaker 3: and I'll order you to jump the county you cleaned

667
00:34:46,561 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: the teller's rules out, and then we'll run off. I'll

668
00:34:51,441 --> 00:34:53,321
Speaker 3: tell you to come with me and they'll think you're

669
00:34:53,321 --> 00:34:56,321
Speaker 3: a customer. And said, if you ever catch here, I said,

670
00:34:56,441 --> 00:35:00,001
Speaker 3: just tell them, and everybody were backing up, so he said,

671
00:35:00,201 --> 00:35:01,721
Speaker 3: so he went in ahead. He did, and he called

672
00:35:01,761 --> 00:35:04,521
Speaker 3: the manager. I wanted to manage her out anyway, and

673
00:35:05,201 --> 00:35:07,601
Speaker 3: I put them by a clowns mask. I ran in

674
00:35:08,201 --> 00:35:10,641
Speaker 3: and I bought this. In those days, you can just

675
00:35:10,761 --> 00:35:13,041
Speaker 3: go and buy twenty two rifles and stuff. You just

676
00:35:13,081 --> 00:35:15,921
Speaker 3: going by them. Didn't need to idea down to George

677
00:35:15,921 --> 00:35:19,801
Speaker 3: Street and so easy ran in there and was so

678
00:35:20,081 --> 00:35:23,521
Speaker 3: nervous my left knee was shaken and the gun went

679
00:35:23,561 --> 00:35:26,761
Speaker 3: off into the floor, just bo them into the flour.

680
00:35:27,161 --> 00:35:28,761
Speaker 3: I'll never forget the sound of it. It's just like

681
00:35:28,841 --> 00:35:31,401
Speaker 3: an explosion, you know, and we're all unshot, including me.

682
00:35:31,761 --> 00:35:37,721
Speaker 3: And then I pretended self instinct, you know, I pretended

683
00:35:37,841 --> 00:35:42,081
Speaker 3: reloaded and pointed at the manager and I said give

684
00:35:42,081 --> 00:35:44,881
Speaker 3: me a gun. He said, I said give me a gun.

685
00:35:44,921 --> 00:35:47,721
Speaker 3: And I walked up the point in the empty rifle

686
00:35:47,761 --> 00:35:50,281
Speaker 3: at him and he's going and I said, grab it

687
00:35:50,321 --> 00:35:52,121
Speaker 3: by the hand. He passed to me by the hand.

688
00:35:52,281 --> 00:35:54,721
Speaker 3: First I said grab it by the barrel, and he

689
00:35:54,721 --> 00:35:57,041
Speaker 3: grabbed the gun by the barrel, ham into the Royal gun.

690
00:35:57,561 --> 00:35:59,841
Speaker 3: The police were screaming later because they said they had

691
00:35:59,921 --> 00:36:03,481
Speaker 3: me calm down, but in that situation you haven't got

692
00:36:03,521 --> 00:36:06,281
Speaker 3: a cool mind. He didn't notice that. Probably it was

693
00:36:06,321 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: a single shot, yeah, rather than going off and why

694
00:36:09,561 --> 00:36:12,321
Speaker 3: risk your life anyway. So he's given it to me

695
00:36:12,401 --> 00:36:14,841
Speaker 3: and I got the gun off here night. That's what

696
00:36:14,961 --> 00:36:19,641
Speaker 3: I started doing, taking guns off off the tellers. But

697
00:36:20,201 --> 00:36:21,321
Speaker 3: after that I did one on.

698
00:36:22,161 --> 00:36:23,681
Speaker 1: Did you get away with that al must? How much

699
00:36:23,841 --> 00:36:24,161
Speaker 1: did you get?

700
00:36:24,521 --> 00:36:26,321
Speaker 3: And get a lot that they put eight thousand pound

701
00:36:26,601 --> 00:36:29,041
Speaker 3: if you go through the old things gerally here, I

702
00:36:29,121 --> 00:36:30,761
Speaker 3: have a look, I've had a lot of news for

703
00:36:31,441 --> 00:36:33,761
Speaker 3: eight thousand pounds. I think they did that to try

704
00:36:33,801 --> 00:36:36,121
Speaker 3: and to cause as sension between where and the guy

705
00:36:37,001 --> 00:36:40,721
Speaker 3: because it wasn't it was. It was probably about two thousand, yeah, yeah,

706
00:36:41,001 --> 00:36:44,641
Speaker 3: And we split it quickly and separated and he went

707
00:36:44,681 --> 00:36:47,041
Speaker 3: on his way. I never saw him again. I don't.

708
00:36:47,121 --> 00:36:49,321
Speaker 3: I don't even know who he is really. Yeah, yeah,

709
00:36:49,521 --> 00:36:50,361
Speaker 3: I didn't know who he was.

710
00:36:50,561 --> 00:36:53,161
Speaker 1: And but you still trusted them to do a bank

711
00:36:53,201 --> 00:36:53,761
Speaker 1: robbery with it?

712
00:36:54,001 --> 00:36:56,241
Speaker 3: Well that's it memory. I picked him up and yeah,

713
00:36:56,281 --> 00:36:57,521
Speaker 3: but he didn't want to do it. In the end,

714
00:36:58,281 --> 00:37:04,121
Speaker 3: I give him a scotch, you know, the scotch and

715
00:37:04,601 --> 00:37:06,721
Speaker 3: any any had to pretend he was a customer. You know,

716
00:37:07,081 --> 00:37:09,201
Speaker 3: she did. He jumped down and got the money because

717
00:37:09,561 --> 00:37:13,001
Speaker 3: you had to customer. But I was scared. She was.

718
00:37:13,721 --> 00:37:15,681
Speaker 3: You know, I've never done any like it, and uh,

719
00:37:16,041 --> 00:37:18,121
Speaker 3: And I knew they had real guns. The fact that

720
00:37:18,121 --> 00:37:19,521
Speaker 3: I was out of the bluff that guy and get

721
00:37:19,561 --> 00:37:21,841
Speaker 3: the gun and show me that I could coup cool

722
00:37:22,961 --> 00:37:25,161
Speaker 3: under tight situation. So I knew I could. It's just

723
00:37:26,281 --> 00:37:29,001
Speaker 3: it just came natural to me. I don't panic. I

724
00:37:29,281 --> 00:37:31,081
Speaker 3: don't sit, never panic. No, I mean, as you get it.

725
00:37:31,121 --> 00:37:33,321
Speaker 3: But you know, I was like, I was like, in,

726
00:37:34,521 --> 00:37:36,081
Speaker 3: there's no doubtbout I could have been shot there. But

727
00:37:36,201 --> 00:37:38,161
Speaker 3: I just think it's fain. I believe in faine. I

728
00:37:38,241 --> 00:37:40,281
Speaker 3: believe certain things in my life happened. I think I'm

729
00:37:40,321 --> 00:37:42,521
Speaker 3: still here today. I should have been dead. I've been

730
00:37:42,521 --> 00:37:44,881
Speaker 3: shot out nine times and that never been hit once?

731
00:37:44,961 --> 00:37:45,561
Speaker 3: And what was it?

732
00:37:45,641 --> 00:37:47,801
Speaker 1: What was up from? Like? Well, why were you shot up?

733
00:37:48,001 --> 00:37:49,281
Speaker 3: I did another bank, Cara Mata.

734
00:37:49,641 --> 00:37:51,121
Speaker 1: You know, but before you do, you know, when you

735
00:37:51,201 --> 00:37:52,681
Speaker 1: do a bank, save the Cara matter bank.

736
00:37:52,761 --> 00:37:54,561
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, and you're you're about to do that, do

737
00:37:54,641 --> 00:37:56,881
Speaker 2: you go in there first to scout it out into

738
00:37:57,001 --> 00:37:57,801
Speaker 2: the sus all out?

739
00:37:58,721 --> 00:38:02,481
Speaker 3: Most of them? I did. Cara Mato didn't because I

740
00:38:02,561 --> 00:38:04,561
Speaker 3: knew they were asked me for that one. They got

741
00:38:04,601 --> 00:38:06,361
Speaker 3: on to me for that one. I don't know how,

742
00:38:06,441 --> 00:38:09,121
Speaker 3: but oroonomy and so I didn't care. I ran in

743
00:38:09,201 --> 00:38:11,041
Speaker 3: a Cabramata. I just said some glass. I didn't even

744
00:38:11,041 --> 00:38:12,401
Speaker 3: have a mask on the other one. I had a

745
00:38:12,481 --> 00:38:14,721
Speaker 3: master because I knew they would asked me. I thought,

746
00:38:14,881 --> 00:38:17,401
Speaker 3: one bank, two banks. I've got to get away, and

747
00:38:18,521 --> 00:38:20,161
Speaker 3: my intention was to get to America. I had this

748
00:38:20,281 --> 00:38:22,241
Speaker 3: girlfriend in America and that said. That's another story. But

749
00:38:22,801 --> 00:38:25,681
Speaker 3: what happened is with caver Matda I thought it'd be

750
00:38:25,681 --> 00:38:28,521
Speaker 3: a huge amount of money because they changed currency from

751
00:38:28,601 --> 00:38:32,641
Speaker 3: poundshillings and pencil to desert currency on the fourteenth of

752
00:38:32,641 --> 00:38:35,241
Speaker 3: February nineteen sixty six, and that's the day I changed

753
00:38:35,721 --> 00:38:39,201
Speaker 3: and I style the car the same way, and this

754
00:38:39,401 --> 00:38:40,721
Speaker 3: time I had a real gun because I had I

755
00:38:40,761 --> 00:38:43,121
Speaker 3: had the bank managers gun's, put on a pair of sunglass,

756
00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:47,401
Speaker 3: had a suit on, and left the engine running. And

757
00:38:47,521 --> 00:38:49,921
Speaker 3: this was what I meant about fate. Later on, I

758
00:38:50,001 --> 00:38:52,801
Speaker 3: found out later years later, I found out when it's

759
00:38:52,841 --> 00:38:57,401
Speaker 3: all went to court that the bank about twenty meters

760
00:38:58,001 --> 00:38:59,921
Speaker 3: on this side where I parked. The guy I had

761
00:39:00,001 --> 00:39:02,281
Speaker 3: seen me it was suspicious and had his gun ready,

762
00:39:02,681 --> 00:39:05,001
Speaker 3: and he made it same in the police after it happened.

763
00:39:05,201 --> 00:39:06,401
Speaker 3: He said, if you had come in here, I would

764
00:39:06,441 --> 00:39:09,481
Speaker 3: have shot him. So that's how lucky I was. So

765
00:39:09,881 --> 00:39:12,241
Speaker 3: I'm about I get out. I got the motor running.

766
00:39:12,401 --> 00:39:14,281
Speaker 3: I'm about to run across here and hit the bank.

767
00:39:14,401 --> 00:39:17,281
Speaker 3: Run out and said, I never forget it, old lady,

768
00:39:17,441 --> 00:39:20,761
Speaker 3: because it was Valentine's Day. And this old lady Kamara

769
00:39:20,801 --> 00:39:23,281
Speaker 3: and excuse me, young man, she said, I said. She said,

770
00:39:23,281 --> 00:39:26,161
Speaker 3: you've left the motor running. I said, don't do that.

771
00:39:26,281 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: She said, around here had a lot of foods. She said,

772
00:39:29,241 --> 00:39:30,921
Speaker 3: wherever you're going, she said, you come back to your

773
00:39:30,961 --> 00:39:35,361
Speaker 3: car will probably be gone. I said, look, thank you

774
00:39:35,441 --> 00:39:37,321
Speaker 3: very much. I went over and she followed me, and

775
00:39:37,441 --> 00:39:39,521
Speaker 3: I didn't have any curves. He said, So I'm filling

776
00:39:39,881 --> 00:39:44,041
Speaker 3: ignition and she's looking. I don't know what. She thought,

777
00:39:44,281 --> 00:39:46,521
Speaker 3: what's going on? And so I switched the engine. I'm

778
00:39:46,521 --> 00:39:49,401
Speaker 3: on cursing, you know, and she said there, it's safe now.

779
00:39:49,441 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 3: I said, thank you very much. I said, man, it's

780
00:39:51,521 --> 00:39:54,121
Speaker 3: Valentine's Day, so I could have gone boy some roses.

781
00:39:54,401 --> 00:39:55,961
Speaker 3: She saw you were a loving young man, you know.

782
00:39:56,201 --> 00:39:58,361
Speaker 3: Two minutes later she would have seen me running out

783
00:39:58,361 --> 00:40:01,081
Speaker 3: of the bank getting chased by the bank management gun

784
00:40:01,241 --> 00:40:05,001
Speaker 3: and a buddy butcher. They came because I robbed the butch.

785
00:40:05,601 --> 00:40:08,801
Speaker 3: He put all his takes and I said, I'll take that.

786
00:40:09,121 --> 00:40:11,041
Speaker 3: He said no. When I saw take that you had,

787
00:40:11,241 --> 00:40:13,361
Speaker 3: I'll never forget. He had two bank books. One was

788
00:40:13,401 --> 00:40:15,561
Speaker 3: Donald Duck when we're making you his kids. I said,

789
00:40:15,601 --> 00:40:18,361
Speaker 3: we won't take that. I said, you're covered by insurance,

790
00:40:18,481 --> 00:40:20,841
Speaker 3: and they are. I knew that. I said, you'll get

791
00:40:20,881 --> 00:40:23,601
Speaker 3: that money bag. I knew this, and that's one thing

792
00:40:24,321 --> 00:40:28,801
Speaker 3: people kream has turneding evering. Yeah, they know. And when

793
00:40:28,841 --> 00:40:30,561
Speaker 3: you go into a bank, anything happens, you're covered by

794
00:40:30,601 --> 00:40:33,681
Speaker 3: insurance if you get robbed. So I wasn't worried about

795
00:40:33,721 --> 00:40:37,001
Speaker 3: taking his money, but he came after me. He didn't

796
00:40:37,001 --> 00:40:39,401
Speaker 3: believe it. So the bank manager grabbed the gun and

797
00:40:39,441 --> 00:40:41,681
Speaker 3: come with me. And when I jumped in the car

798
00:40:41,761 --> 00:40:43,641
Speaker 3: and cursed the old lady because I've got to get

799
00:40:43,681 --> 00:40:46,241
Speaker 3: it started again, and I seen him in the rear

800
00:40:46,281 --> 00:40:49,001
Speaker 3: vision and I thought, he's going to come with a gun,

801
00:40:49,521 --> 00:40:50,761
Speaker 3: and what am I going to do? I got my

802
00:40:50,961 --> 00:40:53,521
Speaker 3: gun because I've always had the mindset I'm like going

803
00:40:53,561 --> 00:40:55,961
Speaker 3: to shoot anybody, and I have and shot it. They

804
00:40:56,041 --> 00:40:58,041
Speaker 3: came after me. I managed to lose them get away,

805
00:40:58,201 --> 00:41:02,121
Speaker 3: so I got away. So I knew by now I

806
00:41:02,161 --> 00:41:05,481
Speaker 3: was getting pretty hot. So I went to went down

807
00:41:05,521 --> 00:41:08,561
Speaker 3: to Melbourne once again. I thought it's too hard on

808
00:41:08,641 --> 00:41:10,881
Speaker 3: my own. I'll get somebody to help me. And this

809
00:41:11,041 --> 00:41:13,601
Speaker 3: guy ran in me. I was going to the illegal

810
00:41:13,721 --> 00:41:17,921
Speaker 3: casino's backs. There were a couple of heavy old cooks

811
00:41:17,961 --> 00:41:20,281
Speaker 3: here that found out what happened to me later and

812
00:41:20,681 --> 00:41:24,561
Speaker 3: sent money in the jar. You know, there's a blake

813
00:41:24,601 --> 00:41:27,281
Speaker 3: called Brewster. He's a good old crime used to be

814
00:41:27,281 --> 00:41:30,521
Speaker 3: a crimin back in the thirties, and said that he

815
00:41:30,561 --> 00:41:31,961
Speaker 3: was running a two ur game. I used to go

816
00:41:32,081 --> 00:41:33,841
Speaker 3: now and I ran into a guy and knew me,

817
00:41:33,881 --> 00:41:36,321
Speaker 3: and he was always biting me. I was going in

818
00:41:36,881 --> 00:41:40,201
Speaker 3: and I used to work a system and I was

819
00:41:40,201 --> 00:41:42,761
Speaker 3: actually winning, winning a bit each night. And he come

820
00:41:42,801 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 3: on me and I said, look, he said, he came

821
00:41:46,481 --> 00:41:48,441
Speaker 3: to me. He said, John, He said, the cops have

822
00:41:48,521 --> 00:41:51,201
Speaker 3: got me for house breaking, imbalance. I need two hundred. Well,

823
00:41:51,201 --> 00:41:52,921
Speaker 3: I don't want to give you fifty years fifty there,

824
00:41:52,961 --> 00:41:54,801
Speaker 3: and I was getting sick of you know, so I

825
00:41:54,881 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 3: need two hundred to get out of it. I said,

826
00:41:58,441 --> 00:42:00,681
Speaker 3: I even got two hundred, you know. I said, look,

827
00:42:01,121 --> 00:42:03,401
Speaker 3: I said, and I was getting low and I said look,

828
00:42:03,681 --> 00:42:06,241
Speaker 3: I said, you want to do a job. He said,

829
00:42:06,241 --> 00:42:07,481
Speaker 3: What I'm going to do. So we're going to do

830
00:42:07,681 --> 00:42:09,561
Speaker 3: is drive a car for me. I said, I'm going

831
00:42:09,601 --> 00:42:13,201
Speaker 3: to rob a bank. Big mistake. This guy's a pickpocket, pickpocket,

832
00:42:13,281 --> 00:42:17,601
Speaker 3: chop lifter. I said, you and a housebreak. I said,

833
00:42:18,521 --> 00:42:20,401
Speaker 3: you just wait outside the bank in the car and

834
00:42:20,481 --> 00:42:21,201
Speaker 3: I'll get it. Half.

835
00:42:21,641 --> 00:42:23,641
Speaker 1: This is Melbourne, yet, Yeah, did you ever robbed the

836
00:42:23,641 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: bunk in Melbourne before?

837
00:42:25,041 --> 00:42:27,801
Speaker 3: But I did study, just want to. I worked out

838
00:42:27,801 --> 00:42:30,161
Speaker 3: to get away, run and the idea was run out

839
00:42:30,161 --> 00:42:33,921
Speaker 3: of the bank, get into the car, drive down the

840
00:42:34,001 --> 00:42:35,841
Speaker 3: end of his road, which is a dead end, get

841
00:42:35,881 --> 00:42:39,081
Speaker 3: out and run through is paddic. There was a railway

842
00:42:39,121 --> 00:42:42,321
Speaker 3: station Kensington at the end, and I had a time

843
00:42:43,001 --> 00:42:44,961
Speaker 3: I timed it. I did try to run and the

844
00:42:45,041 --> 00:42:47,441
Speaker 3: trains were always regularly down there and I get the

845
00:42:47,521 --> 00:42:51,441
Speaker 3: train perfect peer you get away, but he didn't turn up.

846
00:42:51,761 --> 00:42:54,041
Speaker 3: And I was going to I was going to dance

847
00:42:54,081 --> 00:42:56,561
Speaker 3: schol because the girl in America was a really good

848
00:42:56,601 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: ballroom dancing. I was learning. I was playing big Bucks

849
00:42:59,081 --> 00:43:01,441
Speaker 3: learning boreroom dancing and she said, make sure you can

850
00:43:01,481 --> 00:43:07,161
Speaker 3: do the ten believe it. So I was getting private

851
00:43:07,241 --> 00:43:09,281
Speaker 3: lessons one of the best sorts you've ever seen, which

852
00:43:09,321 --> 00:43:10,801
Speaker 3: made a tang out. I said, I've got to get

853
00:43:10,841 --> 00:43:13,721
Speaker 3: down my tang out lessons. And that was after the

854
00:43:14,201 --> 00:43:17,841
Speaker 3: after I on the bank, well, he told the cops

855
00:43:19,041 --> 00:43:21,001
Speaker 3: he realized when he saw that the bank roll had

856
00:43:21,041 --> 00:43:24,161
Speaker 3: gone down. He told him to get out of that ship.

857
00:43:24,841 --> 00:43:27,841
Speaker 3: And they've done it, and they dressed up his dancers.

858
00:43:28,721 --> 00:43:31,241
Speaker 3: I walked in there and you know, they got me.

859
00:43:31,241 --> 00:43:34,041
Speaker 3: I'll never forget it. Shot of my life, really, you know.

860
00:43:34,361 --> 00:43:36,201
Speaker 3: The cops threw stop and stands and just grabbed me.

861
00:43:36,361 --> 00:43:38,681
Speaker 3: And I finished up doing seven years down Pintach for that.

862
00:43:39,161 --> 00:43:41,561
Speaker 3: But what happened with the bank This is the first

863
00:43:41,601 --> 00:43:44,161
Speaker 3: time we got shot at. I'd been shot at, you know,

864
00:43:44,281 --> 00:43:47,921
Speaker 3: when I escaped Baptist. But this time the bank tell

865
00:43:47,961 --> 00:43:50,841
Speaker 3: has shot me. What happened is the young guy to

866
00:43:50,921 --> 00:43:52,721
Speaker 3: manage it. You can see he's a tough guy and

867
00:43:52,921 --> 00:43:54,761
Speaker 3: he just didn't want to didn't want to be robbed.

868
00:43:54,961 --> 00:43:58,521
Speaker 3: And I said, pull ripped, ripped the phone out from

869
00:43:58,561 --> 00:44:00,201
Speaker 3: the wall, and he wouldn't do it. I just ripped

870
00:44:00,241 --> 00:44:02,761
Speaker 3: the phone out of the wall, you know. And this

871
00:44:02,881 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 3: way you've got to get a long time. You're intimidating people,

872
00:44:05,121 --> 00:44:06,761
Speaker 3: accept that. You know, it's a bad thing you're doing.

873
00:44:06,921 --> 00:44:10,481
Speaker 3: And so I said, and it was sort of his

874
00:44:10,641 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 3: will against mine, but I got the gun. I said,

875
00:44:12,441 --> 00:44:14,561
Speaker 3: you'll rip the pone out of the wall, because I

876
00:44:14,641 --> 00:44:16,361
Speaker 3: knew he'd be trying to so he ripped it out

877
00:44:16,441 --> 00:44:19,601
Speaker 3: like that, and I thought, this guy is trouble. This

878
00:44:19,721 --> 00:44:21,281
Speaker 3: guy he's going to come after me. I knew it.

879
00:44:21,361 --> 00:44:24,321
Speaker 3: I knew but paid the car across the road, you know,

880
00:44:25,001 --> 00:44:28,321
Speaker 3: and I'm a pretty quick runner, so I had the

881
00:44:28,401 --> 00:44:30,561
Speaker 3: money in the bad The other blow was crabbing himself

882
00:44:30,641 --> 00:44:33,521
Speaker 3: and got it spun around and ran across and then

883
00:44:33,521 --> 00:44:36,081
Speaker 3: he got knocked over. And I get I get to

884
00:44:36,161 --> 00:44:39,801
Speaker 3: the bloody car and they're already there. They were already

885
00:44:39,961 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: already across the street. They're only about six cars back,

886
00:44:44,361 --> 00:44:47,361
Speaker 3: and I have the doors opened the door. He's gone

887
00:44:47,561 --> 00:44:51,281
Speaker 3: bang bang, he's fired the shots. He wasn't a good shot.

888
00:44:51,641 --> 00:44:54,121
Speaker 3: He hit the boot. He hit the boot. So I

889
00:44:54,201 --> 00:44:56,801
Speaker 3: went like that, and you know, I wasn't going to

890
00:44:56,841 --> 00:44:59,161
Speaker 3: shoot it. I went like that and they dived down.

891
00:44:59,201 --> 00:45:01,281
Speaker 3: I want a car, and then I jumped in. And

892
00:45:01,401 --> 00:45:04,121
Speaker 3: as I jumped in read the car, there's a truck

893
00:45:04,201 --> 00:45:07,081
Speaker 3: driver pulled in front of me try to stop me.

894
00:45:08,041 --> 00:45:09,881
Speaker 3: And I was really dirty and that I you know,

895
00:45:10,001 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 3: he doesn't know where I'm a good guy, the bad guy.

896
00:45:12,201 --> 00:45:15,761
Speaker 3: You know, they could be the bad guy. So I

897
00:45:15,841 --> 00:45:19,361
Speaker 3: went up around on the footpath and he's tried to

898
00:45:19,401 --> 00:45:20,841
Speaker 3: cut me and I just got around him and he's

899
00:45:20,841 --> 00:45:23,361
Speaker 3: come after me. I saw in a rear visionary. He's

900
00:45:23,361 --> 00:45:27,321
Speaker 3: asked me back behind him. The two bank tools are running,

901
00:45:27,681 --> 00:45:32,041
Speaker 3: both got guns, and I've got a train's going to

902
00:45:32,081 --> 00:45:34,241
Speaker 3: get me away. But I'm that dirty. And this is

903
00:45:34,281 --> 00:45:37,401
Speaker 3: where ego tastes control. I get to the dead end

904
00:45:38,561 --> 00:45:41,761
Speaker 3: and a truck driver pulls up behind me, and I thought,

905
00:45:41,841 --> 00:45:46,761
Speaker 3: no fuck is how I jumped out, Well, I know

906
00:45:46,881 --> 00:45:49,241
Speaker 3: the train's coming, and I run up to the thing

907
00:45:49,641 --> 00:45:51,681
Speaker 3: and he saw me coming. He's pretty smart. He wound

908
00:45:51,721 --> 00:45:54,841
Speaker 3: the window, ups wound the window. What's what's that going

909
00:45:54,881 --> 00:45:57,721
Speaker 3: to do? So I just chapped on a window, I said,

910
00:45:58,201 --> 00:45:59,641
Speaker 3: I just shoved in the gun. I said, what are

911
00:45:59,681 --> 00:46:01,561
Speaker 3: you going to do now? What are you going to

912
00:46:01,641 --> 00:46:05,361
Speaker 3: do now? But I was really dirty because he got

913
00:46:05,361 --> 00:46:09,161
Speaker 3: me shot and he like that. He was shaken, and

914
00:46:09,281 --> 00:46:14,161
Speaker 3: I just laughed and I ran. But those trains always

915
00:46:14,201 --> 00:46:16,441
Speaker 3: in time. And I was seen the train coming in

916
00:46:16,561 --> 00:46:19,401
Speaker 3: and I ran and this money falling out of the bank.

917
00:46:20,281 --> 00:46:24,161
Speaker 3: And this little guy they had the little uniforms, he's

918
00:46:24,241 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: like that. He come and he weighed on about ten

919
00:46:27,521 --> 00:46:31,281
Speaker 3: meters away and he closed the gate and I got

920
00:46:31,361 --> 00:46:33,841
Speaker 3: up and I'm puffed there. I said, listen, you gotta

921
00:46:33,881 --> 00:46:35,241
Speaker 3: let me in. I've got to get that train. You

922
00:46:35,321 --> 00:46:37,281
Speaker 3: said you missed it, fellow. I said, I mean, I've

923
00:46:37,281 --> 00:46:39,321
Speaker 3: got to get that train. He's you have to get

924
00:46:39,321 --> 00:46:41,561
Speaker 3: the next one, mate, And I looked around. I could

925
00:46:41,561 --> 00:46:43,441
Speaker 3: see him up at the top end of the padding.

926
00:46:43,561 --> 00:46:46,241
Speaker 3: There's two guys up there with guns and the back

927
00:46:46,921 --> 00:46:50,561
Speaker 3: they're pointing to amount. So the train went and he

928
00:46:50,721 --> 00:46:54,801
Speaker 3: just went went to his office. So I went in

929
00:46:54,921 --> 00:46:56,841
Speaker 3: after you open, and I went in, jumped down on

930
00:46:56,921 --> 00:47:00,081
Speaker 3: the track, and those idiots thought I had caught the train.

931
00:47:00,481 --> 00:47:03,361
Speaker 3: They didn't watch closer. They thought, yeah, so that that

932
00:47:03,561 --> 00:47:06,841
Speaker 3: that was lucky. So but I was stuck in the

933
00:47:06,881 --> 00:47:10,601
Speaker 3: middle of nowhere and next train is half an hour away.

934
00:47:11,161 --> 00:47:14,801
Speaker 3: There was a big fence and somehow, I don't know how.

935
00:47:14,921 --> 00:47:16,881
Speaker 3: You know, when you're district you can do it. Ripped

936
00:47:16,921 --> 00:47:18,801
Speaker 3: my finger and that got over this fence. There was

937
00:47:18,841 --> 00:47:22,121
Speaker 3: a factory and there were cars and the guys are

938
00:47:22,121 --> 00:47:24,481
Speaker 3: having our lunch and there's a couple of guys and

939
00:47:24,601 --> 00:47:26,761
Speaker 3: these two guys were in the front seat of the cars.

940
00:47:26,881 --> 00:47:30,041
Speaker 3: It was home. And I went up and I just

941
00:47:30,161 --> 00:47:34,161
Speaker 3: got in the bank and said, hi, guys, understand, I

942
00:47:34,281 --> 00:47:36,121
Speaker 3: showed them a gun. I slip. I got to get

943
00:47:36,121 --> 00:47:38,281
Speaker 3: into town. I said, can you help me and the bag?

944
00:47:38,521 --> 00:47:41,201
Speaker 3: It's just cool as a key going. He said, so

945
00:47:41,681 --> 00:47:45,081
Speaker 3: we can do that, just so bloody cool. And his

946
00:47:45,201 --> 00:47:49,321
Speaker 3: mate said yeah. I said, I just outscore Melbourne. I said,

947
00:47:49,401 --> 00:47:51,921
Speaker 3: struck a bit of trouble and the old blade said yeah.

948
00:47:53,881 --> 00:47:56,401
Speaker 3: So he had the waves through security, waves through security

949
00:47:56,441 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: went through, and siren's going to where cop cars going around.

950
00:48:00,561 --> 00:48:03,241
Speaker 3: The young Blake said Jesus there after somebody I said, ah, said,

951
00:48:03,241 --> 00:48:05,481
Speaker 3: there's always things happening wrong, and he said, yeah, we

952
00:48:05,681 --> 00:48:09,321
Speaker 3: left know it's madly looking for you. And we start

953
00:48:09,401 --> 00:48:12,601
Speaker 3: talking about football because I love football out there, and

954
00:48:13,161 --> 00:48:16,161
Speaker 3: i'd actually started bearing for Geelong and to have a

955
00:48:16,241 --> 00:48:17,841
Speaker 3: te him when he went down here and I started

956
00:48:17,841 --> 00:48:21,521
Speaker 3: barring for Geelong and I said, who'd you barring for us?

957
00:48:21,801 --> 00:48:24,401
Speaker 3: Homage a long supporter, they said, I went, were died

958
00:48:24,441 --> 00:48:26,921
Speaker 3: in the warm Collingwood all that life, collin would and

959
00:48:27,001 --> 00:48:31,681
Speaker 3: Collinwood was working man's that they always were. And so

960
00:48:31,961 --> 00:48:35,001
Speaker 3: when we stopped, I said, to stop us here, I

961
00:48:35,081 --> 00:48:36,761
Speaker 3: got out, give me a one on money. I don't

962
00:48:36,761 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 3: know how much it was. I said, look, he said,

963
00:48:38,481 --> 00:48:40,401
Speaker 3: what's that for? I said, that's that's for the petrol.

964
00:48:41,001 --> 00:48:43,161
Speaker 3: He said, I wouldn't come that I saw anyway. I said,

965
00:48:43,561 --> 00:48:46,441
Speaker 3: racked rack the west on Collinwood to win the win

966
00:48:46,521 --> 00:48:49,201
Speaker 3: the premiership. I said, you never know. He said, mate,

967
00:48:49,201 --> 00:48:52,001
Speaker 3: I'm going to do that. Colin Wood got to the

968
00:48:52,081 --> 00:48:55,441
Speaker 3: Grand Final. They got beat a point on the siren

969
00:48:56,161 --> 00:48:59,361
Speaker 3: in sixty six by Saint Coler and Saint Coler was

970
00:48:59,401 --> 00:49:04,521
Speaker 3: trained by a cop Caln James. I mean the irony

971
00:49:04,561 --> 00:49:07,281
Speaker 3: of it, and I often thought, I did you know

972
00:49:07,401 --> 00:49:09,361
Speaker 3: that they didn't go to the police. I was never

973
00:49:09,481 --> 00:49:11,841
Speaker 3: mentioned that was that would have been extra time for me,

974
00:49:11,881 --> 00:49:13,601
Speaker 3: and I didn't go to the police, didn't report me.

975
00:49:13,921 --> 00:49:15,841
Speaker 3: I always had a soft spot for coming without there.

976
00:49:16,241 --> 00:49:18,881
Speaker 3: But the truck driver he was on the six o'clock news,

977
00:49:19,201 --> 00:49:21,801
Speaker 3: and when I got home, I was feling pretty good.

978
00:49:21,801 --> 00:49:24,641
Speaker 3: I think I got nearly four thousand and so we

979
00:49:24,721 --> 00:49:28,121
Speaker 3: said I had got away and there he was this

980
00:49:28,361 --> 00:49:31,641
Speaker 3: Bankrobb the truck drive was the star guy and they

981
00:49:31,641 --> 00:49:34,041
Speaker 3: said what happened? And he said, well, what happened? He said,

982
00:49:34,081 --> 00:49:36,321
Speaker 3: I chased him? He said, and did he come? And

983
00:49:36,441 --> 00:49:38,281
Speaker 3: he said he somehow he squeezed through and he said

984
00:49:38,321 --> 00:49:41,761
Speaker 3: I chased him. He said, we both jumped out, said,

985
00:49:41,761 --> 00:49:43,921
Speaker 3: we jumped out and I went to go for and

986
00:49:44,001 --> 00:49:46,161
Speaker 3: he said he ran away. They said, what about the gun?

987
00:49:46,241 --> 00:49:47,361
Speaker 3: He said, you know what I would have done with

988
00:49:47,481 --> 00:49:53,041
Speaker 3: that gun before I got and he said he ran

989
00:49:53,121 --> 00:49:55,441
Speaker 3: across a thing like a curved ong, you know. And

990
00:49:55,561 --> 00:50:00,041
Speaker 3: they said, say, he's blady here. So I thought, okay,

991
00:50:00,881 --> 00:50:03,721
Speaker 3: that's that's his story. But when they caught me the

992
00:50:03,841 --> 00:50:06,961
Speaker 3: dance to Goon, we had to go to Committal and

993
00:50:07,641 --> 00:50:09,721
Speaker 3: I was told this truck I was going to be there.

994
00:50:10,161 --> 00:50:11,561
Speaker 3: I knew what he was going to say. He was

995
00:50:11,601 --> 00:50:13,601
Speaker 3: going to get in caught, and so I terrorized him,

996
00:50:13,721 --> 00:50:16,521
Speaker 3: and at which I did to a degree, And yet

997
00:50:16,601 --> 00:50:20,881
Speaker 3: here he is on Channel nine saying this. So as

998
00:50:20,921 --> 00:50:24,241
Speaker 3: we walked past the screws, I stopped. I said, remember me,

999
00:50:24,401 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: and he looked at he turned white. I said you're

1000
00:50:26,481 --> 00:50:28,321
Speaker 3: going to testify, I said, and you're going to tom.

1001
00:50:29,041 --> 00:50:31,161
Speaker 3: I said, how you jumped out the truck and you

1002
00:50:31,321 --> 00:50:34,321
Speaker 3: chased me like I was a curved on And I

1003
00:50:34,401 --> 00:50:36,961
Speaker 3: said I was terrified of you. I remember that. And

1004
00:50:37,041 --> 00:50:41,201
Speaker 3: he said, I like that you didn't testify. What's he

1005
00:50:41,241 --> 00:50:43,081
Speaker 3: going to do? What's you going to do? So that

1006
00:50:43,241 --> 00:50:47,041
Speaker 3: helped me a bit, but yeah, when I got to Pantridge,

1007
00:50:48,001 --> 00:50:49,761
Speaker 3: I knew I had to try and escape and there's

1008
00:50:50,041 --> 00:50:53,121
Speaker 3: anything I could do and either it because I was

1009
00:50:53,161 --> 00:50:55,481
Speaker 3: wandering for bank robbin in New South Wales as well

1010
00:50:55,481 --> 00:50:58,761
Speaker 3: as down in Melbourne, and they just don't take kind

1011
00:50:58,801 --> 00:51:00,841
Speaker 3: in the bank was particularly in those days. They were

1012
00:51:00,881 --> 00:51:03,481
Speaker 3: hardly anybody. They were getting ready to hang Ryan that

1013
00:51:03,681 --> 00:51:05,001
Speaker 3: caught them, and they're getting ready.

1014
00:51:05,641 --> 00:51:08,001
Speaker 1: I was actually there with how would how would the

1015
00:51:08,041 --> 00:51:09,081
Speaker 1: your mates that towards you?

1016
00:51:09,161 --> 00:51:12,841
Speaker 3: Though they don't like Melvin Sidney crims really no, But

1017
00:51:13,201 --> 00:51:16,041
Speaker 3: because I was a bank robber and I was young guys,

1018
00:51:16,081 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: only twenty three twenty four, I got them pretty well.

1019
00:51:18,601 --> 00:51:21,241
Speaker 3: But there's one inch and I remember and when they

1020
00:51:21,361 --> 00:51:24,361
Speaker 3: arrested me, they had me on a higher security, didn't

1021
00:51:24,361 --> 00:51:25,881
Speaker 3: send me back on the normal band. They sent me

1022
00:51:25,961 --> 00:51:29,561
Speaker 3: back on a special small van with someone following them.

1023
00:51:29,801 --> 00:51:31,721
Speaker 3: And I was in the back handcuffed to a red

1024
00:51:31,761 --> 00:51:35,281
Speaker 3: headed guy and I said, have you ever going to

1025
00:51:35,561 --> 00:51:38,921
Speaker 3: Penry Foot? He wouldn't talk, He wouldn't talk. So when

1026
00:51:38,961 --> 00:51:41,641
Speaker 3: we got off at Penry they came over and I

1027
00:51:41,721 --> 00:51:44,401
Speaker 3: knew it was a tough job, and I said, some

1028
00:51:44,881 --> 00:51:49,001
Speaker 3: tough crims down there staring at us and some pretty

1029
00:51:49,041 --> 00:51:52,001
Speaker 3: heavy prison of other of there. We're probably going to

1030
00:51:52,041 --> 00:51:56,521
Speaker 3: get bash here, you know. So they owned handcuffs and

1031
00:51:56,561 --> 00:52:01,241
Speaker 3: they said who's Rory? I said, I'm killing. I said,

1032
00:52:01,281 --> 00:52:03,921
Speaker 3: you come with us killing. So we started to walk away.

1033
00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,721
Speaker 3: Don't have heard his scream and looked around and the

1034
00:52:05,841 --> 00:52:09,321
Speaker 3: crims nothing screws. The crims had this Rary on the ground.

1035
00:52:09,361 --> 00:52:11,961
Speaker 3: I bumping him, kicking, he smashing his yelling out give

1036
00:52:12,081 --> 00:52:15,721
Speaker 3: him the trouble. I turned out Riary had raped and

1037
00:52:15,801 --> 00:52:17,561
Speaker 3: murdered a sixteen year old and raped and murder the

1038
00:52:17,641 --> 00:52:20,481
Speaker 3: three a six year old and a sixteen year old.

1039
00:52:20,921 --> 00:52:24,601
Speaker 3: He raped the murder. Now, eventually I went down to

1040
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:28,361
Speaker 3: Haystis because I tried to escape. There were two screws.

1041
00:52:29,321 --> 00:52:34,801
Speaker 3: I tried something in baths come out and and you know,

1042
00:52:35,161 --> 00:52:38,561
Speaker 3: not CAF taking their cuffs on and as their handcuffed

1043
00:52:38,601 --> 00:52:43,721
Speaker 3: me again, I worked one and he's gone down and pushing.

1044
00:52:43,721 --> 00:52:46,001
Speaker 3: I went off, young guy and I got to the door,

1045
00:52:46,361 --> 00:52:50,041
Speaker 3: but I had to stop and pull it out and

1046
00:52:50,121 --> 00:52:52,281
Speaker 3: there were steps down there. As I got there. When

1047
00:52:52,321 --> 00:52:54,441
Speaker 3: they go to you wouldn't believe he's tackled me. You

1048
00:52:54,481 --> 00:52:58,121
Speaker 3: wouldn't believe the AFL state they ran me a tack

1049
00:52:58,201 --> 00:53:01,041
Speaker 3: on me from the top. I couldn't believe. Nobody else

1050
00:53:01,041 --> 00:53:03,521
Speaker 3: could believe. That's fate too. He was the faith to

1051
00:53:03,561 --> 00:53:07,281
Speaker 3: get caught. We're rolling around on the grass and I'm kicking, pumping,

1052
00:53:07,321 --> 00:53:10,401
Speaker 3: and he's screaming out like blue murder, and the cops

1053
00:53:10,721 --> 00:53:13,041
Speaker 3: just loved those away. I would have been because I

1054
00:53:13,121 --> 00:53:16,721
Speaker 3: was dressed in Simmy's or whatever. Got away and so

1055
00:53:17,081 --> 00:53:18,881
Speaker 3: they give me a hiding and then they took me

1056
00:53:18,961 --> 00:53:21,401
Speaker 3: down to Hats Division and knew i'd go, and I

1057
00:53:21,481 --> 00:53:23,321
Speaker 3: got another hiding down there. They strip you off down

1058
00:53:23,401 --> 00:53:26,121
Speaker 3: there and they just smash your batons in your unconscious.

1059
00:53:27,121 --> 00:53:29,921
Speaker 3: But you know, it seems like thirty minutes to get

1060
00:53:29,961 --> 00:53:32,081
Speaker 3: in based it's probably two minutes. I BITCHU my lip

1061
00:53:32,121 --> 00:53:34,681
Speaker 3: to stop myself singing out because I knew it grafted.

1062
00:53:34,721 --> 00:53:36,761
Speaker 3: And they used to say try not to yell out

1063
00:53:36,761 --> 00:53:38,961
Speaker 3: because all they other crimsonal listening. You know. Some of

1064
00:53:39,001 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 3: them cry like babies, you know, and some of them don't.

1065
00:53:43,041 --> 00:53:45,281
Speaker 3: So I got a pretty bad hiding then for that.

1066
00:53:46,081 --> 00:53:47,681
Speaker 3: And I was there, I used to see Ron Ryan,

1067
00:53:47,721 --> 00:53:51,241
Speaker 3: the last man hanging in Australia, was there. They were

1068
00:53:51,281 --> 00:53:54,081
Speaker 3: definitely going to hang him. But there's a lot of evidence.

1069
00:53:54,081 --> 00:53:57,081
Speaker 3: There's grounds form of opinion now that I reckon that

1070
00:53:58,001 --> 00:54:00,281
Speaker 3: he didn't do it at the screw from the town.

1071
00:54:01,201 --> 00:54:03,601
Speaker 3: There's a lot of eminence to point that that. Anyway,

1072
00:54:03,921 --> 00:54:06,921
Speaker 3: what happened all he hated him, wanted to die, and

1073
00:54:07,241 --> 00:54:09,001
Speaker 3: I used to see him and bring him out as

1074
00:54:09,001 --> 00:54:12,681
Speaker 3: a security beld on him. And the night they hanged him.

1075
00:54:13,601 --> 00:54:15,601
Speaker 3: In the morning they hand him and the night before

1076
00:54:15,641 --> 00:54:18,561
Speaker 3: and the Gary was ready to erupt. The government came

1077
00:54:18,601 --> 00:54:21,241
Speaker 3: around and said, look, I was just spoke to Ryan.

1078
00:54:21,281 --> 00:54:23,801
Speaker 3: He's accepted his fate. He's answer like the playot for

1079
00:54:23,921 --> 00:54:27,041
Speaker 3: everybody say so they didn't they didn't play it. You

1080
00:54:27,161 --> 00:54:30,481
Speaker 3: had produce outside right around, right around Astralia. The produce

1081
00:54:30,521 --> 00:54:36,761
Speaker 3: about it. And they hanged him and reproved Rory similar names,

1082
00:54:36,801 --> 00:54:40,161
Speaker 3: Ryan and Rory. Reprieved Rory who raped the murder. The

1083
00:54:40,201 --> 00:54:44,601
Speaker 3: two guys reprieved him. He got out and sells paintings

1084
00:54:44,641 --> 00:54:49,041
Speaker 3: as a living stone. So that's why people are dirty

1085
00:54:49,041 --> 00:54:53,641
Speaker 3: about it. It's such a controversial issue anyway. If any

1086
00:54:54,121 --> 00:54:56,721
Speaker 3: far from Van reabilitated, I was, I was even worse,

1087
00:54:57,081 --> 00:55:01,121
Speaker 3: and I was ready to bust out again and sixty

1088
00:55:01,161 --> 00:55:05,001
Speaker 3: eight I got, I got two guys tornised a lot week.

1089
00:55:05,441 --> 00:55:07,561
Speaker 3: We can get out of here. And the security has

1090
00:55:07,561 --> 00:55:10,561
Speaker 3: been ramped up because of Ryan Warmur. They even had

1091
00:55:10,601 --> 00:55:12,841
Speaker 3: two screws in the town during the day. What we're

1092
00:55:12,881 --> 00:55:15,641
Speaker 3: going to do, I said, we can cut through these bars.

1093
00:55:16,001 --> 00:55:17,561
Speaker 3: We're in the door with his eight of us. So

1094
00:55:17,641 --> 00:55:21,161
Speaker 3: we cut the bars. There was a big circle of iron,

1095
00:55:21,241 --> 00:55:24,601
Speaker 3: iron circle screws, iron bars, screws had come in through

1096
00:55:24,641 --> 00:55:28,321
Speaker 3: a door. Just check everybody, go back out. I said,

1097
00:55:28,801 --> 00:55:31,041
Speaker 3: I have a guy up here sand paper and something.

1098
00:55:31,761 --> 00:55:35,081
Speaker 3: So if they hear a noise, I think it's looking

1099
00:55:35,121 --> 00:55:38,721
Speaker 3: through the people and we get it. So I got,

1100
00:55:38,921 --> 00:55:43,841
Speaker 3: I got two smuggle two weight bars. When the weights

1101
00:55:44,441 --> 00:55:48,201
Speaker 3: there's two bars, pretty big ones, and smuggled them in

1102
00:55:48,361 --> 00:55:50,481
Speaker 3: and had a hacks at blade got through the bars.

1103
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:52,081
Speaker 1: How long will that take you to get through the bus?

1104
00:55:52,761 --> 00:55:56,881
Speaker 3: Three hours? Three hours because just very slow. But are

1105
00:55:56,961 --> 00:55:58,761
Speaker 3: good blades. But that they were smuggled to me you

1106
00:55:58,841 --> 00:56:02,161
Speaker 3: had to pay for that. But the thing is the

1107
00:56:02,241 --> 00:56:04,441
Speaker 3: three of us gone, but the other guys on there

1108
00:56:04,481 --> 00:56:07,201
Speaker 3: were twelve when im the other night. We're very happy

1109
00:56:07,201 --> 00:56:09,121
Speaker 3: about it because They said, we're going to lose that

1110
00:56:09,241 --> 00:56:16,281
Speaker 3: to you. But you've got to the mentality of some crims.

1111
00:56:16,401 --> 00:56:18,601
Speaker 3: I said, look, you can come. They said, when I going,

1112
00:56:18,681 --> 00:56:22,161
Speaker 3: you're crazy, You're crazy, you know. And it was crazy, really,

1113
00:56:22,921 --> 00:56:25,801
Speaker 3: but at that stage I just didn't give us stuff.

1114
00:56:26,361 --> 00:56:27,801
Speaker 3: I was even going to get out. I wasn't and

1115
00:56:28,921 --> 00:56:31,681
Speaker 3: so too. What I did. We got through the bars.

1116
00:56:32,281 --> 00:56:35,081
Speaker 3: We looked through the to see who was on We're

1117
00:56:35,121 --> 00:56:37,721
Speaker 3: going to hit after midnight. The screw was upstairs all

1118
00:56:37,841 --> 00:56:41,401
Speaker 3: night and he had the couz and he used to come.

1119
00:56:41,481 --> 00:56:44,121
Speaker 3: We had to get him down overpower him, get his gun,

1120
00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 3: get the couz. So I looked through the changes. Shift

1121
00:56:47,761 --> 00:56:50,881
Speaker 3: usually change shifts about twelve. It's about ten to twelve

1122
00:56:50,961 --> 00:56:56,801
Speaker 3: or something. So I'm coming through. Damn bluddy six foot four,

1123
00:56:57,081 --> 00:57:00,481
Speaker 3: big dutchman, but a great guy, you know, one of

1124
00:57:00,561 --> 00:57:04,161
Speaker 3: the few screws I actually liked. I said, I can't

1125
00:57:04,241 --> 00:57:06,241
Speaker 3: hit this guy. How am I going to hit this guy?

1126
00:57:06,441 --> 00:57:10,601
Speaker 3: You know, you know you're going, You're planned all this,

1127
00:57:10,881 --> 00:57:14,401
Speaker 3: but I've got the bars cut and you gave here

1128
00:57:14,441 --> 00:57:16,841
Speaker 3: in the morning and say, look, excuse me. I cut

1129
00:57:16,921 --> 00:57:18,241
Speaker 3: the bars. I was going to escape, but there was

1130
00:57:18,281 --> 00:57:20,681
Speaker 3: a nice officer on. I couldn't I couldn't eat it

1131
00:57:21,081 --> 00:57:23,601
Speaker 3: them on bars, so just handing himself, well they'd just

1132
00:57:23,681 --> 00:57:25,561
Speaker 3: take it out and flog anyway. I mean, you know,

1133
00:57:26,281 --> 00:57:28,521
Speaker 3: I didn't have any officer. And then I used the

1134
00:57:28,601 --> 00:57:30,841
Speaker 3: green against the blue? What had happened to me? How

1135
00:57:30,881 --> 00:57:34,761
Speaker 3: did smash me? And I thought, look, you know, sorry,

1136
00:57:34,801 --> 00:57:37,641
Speaker 3: I'm going to have to do it. So we one

1137
00:57:37,721 --> 00:57:40,161
Speaker 3: guy kept in, kept watching the others, and we said

1138
00:57:40,161 --> 00:57:41,881
Speaker 3: we're going going to do it now, and any of

1139
00:57:41,881 --> 00:57:44,841
Speaker 3: you sing out. Matthew was going to wake him with

1140
00:57:44,881 --> 00:57:48,161
Speaker 3: the bar, and they didn't ever go to that gup.

1141
00:57:48,761 --> 00:57:51,761
Speaker 3: So what I got through the bars, got into the circle.

1142
00:57:52,441 --> 00:57:55,521
Speaker 3: I had a knife cut there was a soft petitioning

1143
00:57:55,561 --> 00:57:58,041
Speaker 3: part of the door. I cut through there, got my

1144
00:57:58,161 --> 00:58:00,441
Speaker 3: hand for and when you put your hands for, you

1145
00:58:00,601 --> 00:58:03,961
Speaker 3: think it could play chop it office something, put your

1146
00:58:04,001 --> 00:58:06,321
Speaker 3: hands through it. And I knew that because I used

1147
00:58:06,321 --> 00:58:08,641
Speaker 3: to come through a lot. They didn't lock. They just

1148
00:58:08,721 --> 00:58:11,161
Speaker 3: lit a bolt through. I got under the bomb. Well

1149
00:58:11,201 --> 00:58:13,961
Speaker 3: then I was out into this coldor I knew he

1150
00:58:14,081 --> 00:58:17,681
Speaker 3: was upstairs. Say then mat and Jeff had a bar

1151
00:58:17,761 --> 00:58:19,401
Speaker 3: and I at a bar. I said, look, if you're

1152
00:58:19,401 --> 00:58:21,801
Speaker 3: going to come down the stairs. If he turns around

1153
00:58:21,841 --> 00:58:23,641
Speaker 3: to me, I said, you hit him in the back

1154
00:58:23,641 --> 00:58:26,801
Speaker 3: of the head, I said, and rubbish, gunn I said,

1155
00:58:26,801 --> 00:58:28,401
Speaker 3: if he turns around to you, all hit him in

1156
00:58:28,401 --> 00:58:29,761
Speaker 3: the back of the head, because we've got to hit

1157
00:58:29,801 --> 00:58:36,241
Speaker 3: him on the back, you know. So wait mill of nights.

1158
00:58:36,721 --> 00:58:39,721
Speaker 3: It's about a bit after midnight, and it's cold and

1159
00:58:39,801 --> 00:58:44,361
Speaker 3: we're shivering, and it's so eerie. I never forget. You

1160
00:58:44,481 --> 00:58:46,281
Speaker 3: can't hear anything, and all of a sudden he's knocking

1161
00:58:46,401 --> 00:58:51,601
Speaker 3: up and HER's I'm coming, I'm coming, and we hear

1162
00:58:51,681 --> 00:58:54,681
Speaker 3: him coming down, and I'm looking at We're standing on

1163
00:58:54,761 --> 00:58:56,641
Speaker 3: the other side, and I'm looking across at Jeff and

1164
00:58:56,721 --> 00:59:00,721
Speaker 3: he's like that. You know, I knew it. He can't

1165
00:59:00,721 --> 00:59:03,001
Speaker 3: do it. He can't do it. I'm going to have

1166
00:59:03,041 --> 00:59:05,321
Speaker 3: to do it. It doesn't matter which way to. So

1167
00:59:05,441 --> 00:59:08,601
Speaker 3: sure enough he come down. He turned around to me, Well,

1168
00:59:08,761 --> 00:59:11,001
Speaker 3: Jeff shure to hit him, just like I couldn't couldn't

1169
00:59:11,041 --> 00:59:14,121
Speaker 3: do it. So I got the bar of the screws.

1170
00:59:15,081 --> 00:59:19,241
Speaker 3: He's gone for the gun, and I waked. But I

1171
00:59:19,521 --> 00:59:21,881
Speaker 3: liked the guy, so I pulled it. And I mean

1172
00:59:21,921 --> 00:59:24,001
Speaker 3: that I pulled it and instead of waking him. Mart

1173
00:59:24,761 --> 00:59:28,081
Speaker 3: was a soft tap that drew blood. Blood spurred it out,

1174
00:59:28,361 --> 00:59:30,361
Speaker 3: and I thought, you're standing here in the middle of

1175
00:59:30,401 --> 00:59:32,921
Speaker 3: the night in a maxim security jarm hit the screw

1176
00:59:33,001 --> 00:59:36,281
Speaker 3: in the heaven iron bar and I thought, it is

1177
00:59:36,321 --> 00:59:38,881
Speaker 3: just really happened. It's the worst thing in my life

1178
00:59:38,961 --> 00:59:42,321
Speaker 3: that I still think back about. It was just a nightmare.

1179
00:59:42,561 --> 00:59:46,721
Speaker 3: And he stagged, A big tough guy staggered. So I

1180
00:59:46,801 --> 00:59:51,401
Speaker 3: hit him again. Still pulled at that and probably like you,

1181
00:59:51,441 --> 00:59:54,001
Speaker 3: I did pull it, you know, I guess. But it

1182
00:59:54,041 --> 00:59:56,641
Speaker 3: didn't knock him unconscious. And there was a belt and

1183
00:59:56,721 --> 00:59:59,081
Speaker 3: he stagger towards a bell, so I dropped the bar

1184
00:59:59,081 --> 01:00:01,041
Speaker 3: and hit him on a chimney. He went down, and

1185
01:00:02,641 --> 01:00:04,881
Speaker 3: when he went down, I grabbed his gun. I said, listen,

1186
01:00:05,081 --> 01:00:07,361
Speaker 3: listened to the door. I said, I knew who he was.

1187
01:00:07,481 --> 01:00:09,681
Speaker 3: I said, give me the courtes where the court? He said,

1188
01:00:10,081 --> 01:00:11,721
Speaker 3: have you got the course? I said, what do you mean,

1189
01:00:11,721 --> 01:00:13,961
Speaker 3: you haven't got the courage? He said, When Ryan and

1190
01:00:14,001 --> 01:00:16,761
Speaker 3: walkt escape, they up secured and it wouldn't let him

1191
01:00:16,761 --> 01:00:21,161
Speaker 3: have the couries anymore, someone from outside them. So that

1192
01:00:21,321 --> 01:00:23,161
Speaker 3: was the end of that. We were trapped, I thought,

1193
01:00:23,481 --> 01:00:24,921
Speaker 3: and my mate said, we have to blow a long

1194
01:00:25,001 --> 01:00:26,841
Speaker 3: off and I said that in the movies at work,

1195
01:00:26,921 --> 01:00:29,601
Speaker 3: and I doubt it's going to work here. And then

1196
01:00:29,641 --> 01:00:32,561
Speaker 3: a screw come the door, John Johant, and he's John

1197
01:00:32,641 --> 01:00:36,641
Speaker 3: the Ball. So they'd heard the noise and I dived out.

1198
01:00:36,961 --> 01:00:40,361
Speaker 3: He was standing there. The door was open, and I

1199
01:00:40,561 --> 01:00:42,281
Speaker 3: dived out, and the pointed the gunner and stay where

1200
01:00:42,281 --> 01:00:44,201
Speaker 3: you are, your dad, and he just dived in the shadows.

1201
01:00:44,281 --> 01:00:47,601
Speaker 3: I heard him running. I said, where off, guys?

1202
01:00:49,521 --> 01:00:50,121
Speaker 1: So what we did?

1203
01:00:50,641 --> 01:00:56,841
Speaker 3: We went upstairs. We had this old piano they used

1204
01:00:56,841 --> 01:00:59,681
Speaker 3: to do church services upstairs to and pulled it across

1205
01:00:59,681 --> 01:01:00,961
Speaker 3: the top of the stairs so he couldn't get in.

1206
01:01:01,201 --> 01:01:03,161
Speaker 3: You couldn't get it. Then I turned open the doors.

1207
01:01:03,161 --> 01:01:06,281
Speaker 3: There were free dorm whites upstairs. Opened open the doors

1208
01:01:06,321 --> 01:01:09,201
Speaker 3: of them and tell all the guys we saw the

1209
01:01:09,321 --> 01:01:12,601
Speaker 3: lights on us. Tell them what's happening. They couldn't believe it.

1210
01:01:12,641 --> 01:01:16,361
Speaker 3: And I said, look, I said, I said, they might

1211
01:01:16,441 --> 01:01:18,201
Speaker 3: try and come in through the roof or cut through

1212
01:01:18,241 --> 01:01:20,121
Speaker 3: the bait. You gotta let me know. They said, was

1213
01:01:20,481 --> 01:01:22,361
Speaker 3: they were excited? I said, we'll piss on them all

1214
01:01:22,361 --> 01:01:25,161
Speaker 3: that they were excited about it. So I knew I

1215
01:01:25,201 --> 01:01:27,201
Speaker 3: had them on side. So the only way they're going

1216
01:01:27,241 --> 01:01:28,241
Speaker 3: to be able to get me is come up through

1217
01:01:28,321 --> 01:01:31,001
Speaker 3: these stairs. And you know, I had it blocked, and

1218
01:01:32,161 --> 01:01:35,801
Speaker 3: eventually they came. You know, I do tours down there

1219
01:01:35,881 --> 01:01:41,321
Speaker 3: now and that place division is now a bar and

1220
01:01:41,441 --> 01:01:43,881
Speaker 3: a restaurant, the cafe, and we go down and we

1221
01:01:44,001 --> 01:01:47,081
Speaker 3: eat meals and buy drinks fifteen bucks for a beer.

1222
01:01:49,681 --> 01:01:54,441
Speaker 3: But people, as soon as they come in, they go

1223
01:01:54,601 --> 01:01:57,561
Speaker 3: and they tell them about because Ada and Carlo's swat

1224
01:01:57,601 --> 01:02:02,521
Speaker 3: team coming. They opened up an explosive place but tear

1225
01:02:02,561 --> 01:02:06,881
Speaker 3: gas haart works and it went there was five hour seedge.

1226
01:02:07,481 --> 01:02:10,401
Speaker 3: They brought the commissioner in and they had the loudspege.

1227
01:02:10,641 --> 01:02:12,281
Speaker 3: The thing I had in my favorite I knew was

1228
01:02:12,601 --> 01:02:15,001
Speaker 3: that they couldn't get up there. About coming up there

1229
01:02:15,201 --> 01:02:18,641
Speaker 3: just bastards, and they didn't want to do that because

1230
01:02:18,641 --> 01:02:21,401
Speaker 3: the newspapers. And the other thing is there were a

1231
01:02:21,441 --> 01:02:25,201
Speaker 3: thousand crimins listening because it was an allowed figure and

1232
01:02:25,601 --> 01:02:29,041
Speaker 3: you had a thousand crimins surrounded in those wings. They

1233
01:02:29,081 --> 01:02:31,641
Speaker 3: could all hear what was going on. And I knew

1234
01:02:31,681 --> 01:02:33,881
Speaker 3: the governor and he's got a reputation even now is

1235
01:02:33,921 --> 01:02:37,961
Speaker 3: because he's dead. He had a reputation as a man

1236
01:02:38,041 --> 01:02:40,841
Speaker 3: of his word. I knew I could get him to

1237
01:02:40,881 --> 01:02:44,321
Speaker 3: do a duel that he created the duel he had

1238
01:02:44,361 --> 01:02:47,521
Speaker 3: to because they do duels every day with crimson. He's

1239
01:02:47,561 --> 01:02:50,801
Speaker 3: got asand criminals. If he's got to do it. So

1240
01:02:51,641 --> 01:02:53,521
Speaker 3: I wouldn't come down. I said. The only way I

1241
01:02:53,561 --> 01:02:57,481
Speaker 3: will come down, give you the gun. I said, it's

1242
01:02:57,481 --> 01:02:58,961
Speaker 3: got to be kept in a low court, because we

1243
01:02:59,041 --> 01:03:02,401
Speaker 3: went to high court, get buddy, twenty years. We kept

1244
01:03:02,481 --> 01:03:06,761
Speaker 3: the low court. And I said, no bashing. You know

1245
01:03:08,001 --> 01:03:10,241
Speaker 3: well in the end he said, there's no problem with

1246
01:03:10,681 --> 01:03:12,601
Speaker 3: no bashing. You've got my word. You will not be

1247
01:03:12,721 --> 01:03:14,921
Speaker 3: touched down here. If we didn't get that, that turned

1248
01:03:14,961 --> 01:03:18,961
Speaker 3: us into eventually and and the other thing is he said,

1249
01:03:19,001 --> 01:03:22,361
Speaker 3: I can't speak. I can't get you in the law court.

1250
01:03:22,561 --> 01:03:23,841
Speaker 3: I said, we're not coming in. They could do it.

1251
01:03:23,841 --> 01:03:25,881
Speaker 3: And when I was coming to Jeff Wigan, he went down.

1252
01:03:26,001 --> 01:03:27,641
Speaker 3: He's worried about what his mother was going to think.

1253
01:03:27,681 --> 01:03:29,881
Speaker 3: And that's fair enough. He was worried about He's worried

1254
01:03:29,921 --> 01:03:32,481
Speaker 3: about his moment, so he went down. So they still

1255
01:03:32,521 --> 01:03:34,681
Speaker 3: had a tourist his me in the red bag, Matt

1256
01:03:34,681 --> 01:03:37,841
Speaker 3: because Mack was tatl Mac started going and saying, run

1257
01:03:37,961 --> 01:03:40,521
Speaker 3: up down from bottles and him and corn counts and

1258
01:03:41,001 --> 01:03:44,401
Speaker 3: you can't do that. So he cracked up. He finished

1259
01:03:44,481 --> 01:03:47,881
Speaker 3: up in an arrow out of mental assign anyway, in

1260
01:03:47,921 --> 01:03:51,761
Speaker 3: the end he agreed. He said, I've got to get

1261
01:03:51,841 --> 01:03:55,681
Speaker 3: my jil up and running. And morning he said, you've

1262
01:03:55,681 --> 01:03:57,361
Speaker 3: got my word or be kept in the lower court

1263
01:03:57,961 --> 01:03:59,841
Speaker 3: and you will not have a hand laid on it.

1264
01:04:01,041 --> 01:04:03,441
Speaker 3: So like I went down. I remember, I remember when

1265
01:04:03,481 --> 01:04:07,081
Speaker 3: I went down those stairs, hands on my head, and

1266
01:04:08,441 --> 01:04:13,961
Speaker 3: soon I could seem life thwing up about six bloody

1267
01:04:15,361 --> 01:04:19,401
Speaker 3: heavy weapons aimed at me. I don't just won't press

1268
01:04:19,441 --> 01:04:22,481
Speaker 3: on the trigger, and I'm gone, yeah, but to buy that,

1269
01:04:22,601 --> 01:04:24,321
Speaker 3: and I just think it's faint that I was meant to.

1270
01:04:25,961 --> 01:04:30,201
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember they took me down. They

1271
01:04:30,241 --> 01:04:33,161
Speaker 3: put me in a cell and all the screws came

1272
01:04:33,201 --> 01:04:35,521
Speaker 3: in off duty surround me, about six on them. When

1273
01:04:35,521 --> 01:04:39,001
Speaker 3: I was inside the cell and they were outside. It

1274
01:04:39,441 --> 01:04:43,521
Speaker 3: was the soul that Ryan had burned. You can see

1275
01:04:43,681 --> 01:04:46,481
Speaker 3: right through the bars on the outside. And they said,

1276
01:04:46,561 --> 01:04:48,841
Speaker 3: you know what you've done, And I just said, get fucked.

1277
01:04:49,201 --> 01:04:51,961
Speaker 3: I did because I'd cross the line, and I made

1278
01:04:52,041 --> 01:04:53,921
Speaker 3: up my mind. If you're going to bash me, and

1279
01:04:53,921 --> 01:04:55,921
Speaker 3: you're going to bash me, I'm not going to cop

1280
01:04:55,961 --> 01:04:57,601
Speaker 3: shit from now. I'll get back to them. If I

1281
01:04:57,681 --> 01:05:00,521
Speaker 3: get bash then I'll probably kill me anyway. That's the

1282
01:05:00,961 --> 01:05:03,121
Speaker 3: I've got to rely on the go, And they did.

1283
01:05:03,641 --> 01:05:06,241
Speaker 3: He came down every day, saw us on you got

1284
01:05:06,521 --> 01:05:08,961
Speaker 3: You're okay, yeah, okay. But what they did to you,

1285
01:05:09,401 --> 01:05:11,641
Speaker 3: how they got me was we got me a lot

1286
01:05:11,681 --> 01:05:14,441
Speaker 3: of mind games for years. But he came down about

1287
01:05:15,641 --> 01:05:18,281
Speaker 3: there's probably ten days later. It was a Friday night

1288
01:05:18,681 --> 01:05:21,961
Speaker 3: and he came to a cell because the government going

1289
01:05:22,001 --> 01:05:25,561
Speaker 3: home and step out. They said about six of there.

1290
01:05:26,081 --> 01:05:28,801
Speaker 3: I do it here at Commers, here at Connors. So

1291
01:05:28,921 --> 01:05:31,721
Speaker 3: I steeled myself for it. I thought I'll be likely

1292
01:05:31,721 --> 01:05:35,441
Speaker 3: to survive this. I stepped out and they said turn left,

1293
01:05:35,961 --> 01:05:40,361
Speaker 3: turn left. They masked me up to Ryan Song where

1294
01:05:40,401 --> 01:05:45,561
Speaker 3: he'd went, and I said step inside. I stepped inside.

1295
01:05:45,601 --> 01:05:48,281
Speaker 3: They locked it and they said officer at the ball

1296
01:05:48,801 --> 01:05:52,721
Speaker 3: died at four o'clocks today. They said, you'll hang like Ryan,

1297
01:05:52,841 --> 01:05:57,081
Speaker 3: you bastard, and you'll swing. They walked away. Well forty hours.

1298
01:05:57,121 --> 01:06:00,241
Speaker 3: They left me there thinking that right that the guy died.

1299
01:06:00,761 --> 01:06:02,681
Speaker 3: Definitely they would hang me. They're going to hang Ryan.

1300
01:06:03,361 --> 01:06:06,561
Speaker 3: Mine was premeditated. Ryan's was done to Spurad the moment

1301
01:06:07,441 --> 01:06:11,801
Speaker 3: during the escape. Mine was a premeditated act, no doubt.

1302
01:06:11,881 --> 01:06:15,401
Speaker 3: If he's dead, I'm going to I will swing. But

1303
01:06:15,561 --> 01:06:17,721
Speaker 3: I thought, you got to use your brains. You've got

1304
01:06:17,801 --> 01:06:20,161
Speaker 3: to think things out and trying and to use reason.

1305
01:06:20,321 --> 01:06:23,761
Speaker 3: And I thought there's one thing here. If he died,

1306
01:06:24,521 --> 01:06:26,641
Speaker 3: would I should pot screws coming in and tell me

1307
01:06:26,921 --> 01:06:28,961
Speaker 3: or would I have the homicides work coming into me

1308
01:06:29,481 --> 01:06:31,401
Speaker 3: and take me out and charge me? And that's what

1309
01:06:31,601 --> 01:06:33,961
Speaker 3: kept me going. But you still got that doubt. You

1310
01:06:34,081 --> 01:06:37,401
Speaker 3: still got that doubt. Anyway, Sunday night they come and

1311
01:06:37,481 --> 01:06:41,041
Speaker 3: got me left, turned right, turned down, and they said

1312
01:06:41,041 --> 01:06:44,241
Speaker 3: offs the boards made a remote recovery. It's okay, put

1313
01:06:44,281 --> 01:06:48,961
Speaker 3: me back and they'll laughing. Now. The thing is they

1314
01:06:49,601 --> 01:06:51,161
Speaker 3: left it to me where I'm going to tell Grinally.

1315
01:06:51,201 --> 01:06:53,841
Speaker 3: Grinally come around on Monday morning, didn't knowing about it,

1316
01:06:54,121 --> 01:06:56,601
Speaker 3: said we were right. I said, yeah, that means fine,

1317
01:06:57,161 --> 01:07:00,281
Speaker 3: because if I tell Grinley, he's already in the ship.

1318
01:07:00,441 --> 01:07:02,481
Speaker 3: They were going to jack up overspan in low Court

1319
01:07:03,201 --> 01:07:06,401
Speaker 3: only got eighty months for what happened months if I

1320
01:07:06,561 --> 01:07:09,921
Speaker 3: say to him what happened, he's going to have to

1321
01:07:09,961 --> 01:07:12,441
Speaker 3: say to them what They're going to deny it. He's

1322
01:07:12,481 --> 01:07:13,921
Speaker 3: going to be in a position then what's he going

1323
01:07:14,001 --> 01:07:16,321
Speaker 3: to do. I didn't want to put him in that position,

1324
01:07:17,281 --> 01:07:21,881
Speaker 3: because he's in enough shit over me. And he got

1325
01:07:22,481 --> 01:07:26,361
Speaker 3: he got some payback from me because in sixty nine

1326
01:07:26,881 --> 01:07:30,681
Speaker 3: seventy seventy one we all went on rights and practically

1327
01:07:30,881 --> 01:07:35,841
Speaker 3: reckoned the place with disobeying orders. But one Irish guy

1328
01:07:37,241 --> 01:07:40,281
Speaker 3: call this screw down Landed. He was an Englishman and

1329
01:07:41,321 --> 01:07:46,041
Speaker 3: he was a macculate, you know, spit polysh shoes straight out,

1330
01:07:46,361 --> 01:07:48,601
Speaker 3: straight out of the military, and a lot of them

1331
01:07:48,601 --> 01:07:55,121
Speaker 3: were military guys, and come down, mad irishman said, and

1332
01:07:55,201 --> 01:07:58,441
Speaker 3: he threw some shit all I mean, fucking hit him

1333
01:07:58,441 --> 01:08:02,121
Speaker 3: in her face, down his uniform and I heard him

1334
01:08:02,161 --> 01:08:05,841
Speaker 3: was screaming. He ran up the thing and you know,

1335
01:08:06,121 --> 01:08:08,921
Speaker 3: I hurt him on the phone, and we're all listening

1336
01:08:10,241 --> 01:08:12,641
Speaker 3: and some of the oraceans realized he did a lot

1337
01:08:12,641 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 3: of shit. He's quite mad. And we heard him shut

1338
01:08:18,081 --> 01:08:22,281
Speaker 3: officer the silence because we knew the screws were coming

1339
01:08:22,281 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 3: down and going to bash him. And he said, afic, sorry,

1340
01:08:27,801 --> 01:08:33,041
Speaker 3: about that. There's no answer. He said, I'll pay for

1341
01:08:33,121 --> 01:08:37,961
Speaker 3: the dry clanet. No answer. Next thing, the squad come down.

1342
01:08:38,041 --> 01:08:40,841
Speaker 3: They give me the biggest flog of his life. But

1343
01:08:40,961 --> 01:08:42,961
Speaker 3: the guy's hurt him getting and it went. It just

1344
01:08:43,041 --> 01:08:46,481
Speaker 3: went too bad. What they did was pretty heavy, and anyway,

1345
01:08:46,521 --> 01:08:51,001
Speaker 3: we're all jacked up. And what happened is that he

1346
01:08:51,121 --> 01:08:55,681
Speaker 3: got really bad. And the governor came down and in

1347
01:08:55,761 --> 01:09:00,161
Speaker 3: the middle of it and said, look, we'll do some negotiations.

1348
01:09:00,281 --> 01:09:01,641
Speaker 3: I'll bring in the ministry and we're going to do

1349
01:09:01,921 --> 01:09:03,881
Speaker 3: and they said we wouldn't take your word. Then he

1350
01:09:04,361 --> 01:09:06,281
Speaker 3: saw the man my word and they said burn it

1351
01:09:06,361 --> 01:09:09,801
Speaker 3: because I just didn't believe in it, he said. And

1352
01:09:09,921 --> 01:09:14,361
Speaker 3: he said, well, John Killick will tell you. And we're

1353
01:09:14,361 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 3: in the middle of a right. This is the worst

1354
01:09:15,801 --> 01:09:20,361
Speaker 3: right in Pendridg's history. And got the governor asking me

1355
01:09:20,441 --> 01:09:25,801
Speaker 3: for a reference. Then he said tell them Killick. I said, well,

1356
01:09:26,441 --> 01:09:29,441
Speaker 3: all I could say is govinor Greenley kept his word

1357
01:09:29,481 --> 01:09:31,041
Speaker 3: and we did a due well tonight. I tried to

1358
01:09:31,161 --> 01:09:33,601
Speaker 3: escape and he kept his word. That's all I can say.

1359
01:09:34,281 --> 01:09:37,241
Speaker 3: He said, thank you, Killick. He said, there and then

1360
01:09:37,281 --> 01:09:40,881
Speaker 3: it stands Taylor Near say He's a heavy crim heat

1361
01:09:40,921 --> 01:09:45,081
Speaker 3: bomb buddy Russell Street lighter. He said there, if John

1362
01:09:45,201 --> 01:09:47,601
Speaker 3: said we're gonna take his word, We're gonna take his word.

1363
01:09:48,641 --> 01:09:52,201
Speaker 3: So dealers were done and has got a lot better

1364
01:09:52,841 --> 01:09:55,041
Speaker 3: by the time Chopper Red got there because I'd gone.

1365
01:09:55,961 --> 01:09:59,201
Speaker 3: It wasn't the same place when Chopper got there. So

1366
01:09:59,401 --> 01:10:02,841
Speaker 3: you know I did. I did seven years there, got

1367
01:10:02,921 --> 01:10:06,641
Speaker 3: extradited to quit news out Wales. I didn't do very

1368
01:10:06,721 --> 01:10:09,281
Speaker 3: long there because all the time I've done here and

1369
01:10:10,601 --> 01:10:15,361
Speaker 3: what happens, got out, got married, started writing stories and whatnot.

1370
01:10:16,761 --> 01:10:21,841
Speaker 3: Got you know. I had a shop that I did

1371
01:10:22,081 --> 01:10:25,441
Speaker 3: really well, and started photographic business. I did a lot,

1372
01:10:25,801 --> 01:10:28,641
Speaker 3: was working all the time, five years working, and then

1373
01:10:28,681 --> 01:10:31,841
Speaker 3: I lost the shop on one day, So I was

1374
01:10:32,681 --> 01:10:36,321
Speaker 3: I haven't mentioned it was pretty heavy gambler. He's gambled

1375
01:10:36,321 --> 01:10:38,441
Speaker 3: pretty heavy. And when I was robbing banks. That's why

1376
01:10:38,601 --> 01:10:41,041
Speaker 3: I robbed one bank after another. Was I used to

1377
01:10:41,081 --> 01:10:41,921
Speaker 3: gamble pretty heavy.

1378
01:10:42,081 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: And that's the pay to be the debts that you gambled.

1379
01:10:46,041 --> 01:10:49,361
Speaker 3: That was it. You know. I was never a professional

1380
01:10:49,441 --> 01:10:53,801
Speaker 3: bank robber as such, because professionals that's what they do.

1381
01:10:53,961 --> 01:10:56,921
Speaker 3: They rob banks. And I rob another bank, and I'd

1382
01:10:57,001 --> 01:10:58,881
Speaker 3: rob a bank. Hopefully that was the end of it.

1383
01:10:59,241 --> 01:11:00,801
Speaker 3: Get bank in the business, do what I was doing,

1384
01:11:00,841 --> 01:11:03,401
Speaker 3: and then lose money at the horse. I lost the

1385
01:11:03,481 --> 01:11:06,161
Speaker 3: shop in one day. That at the damage son at

1386
01:11:06,321 --> 01:11:10,841
Speaker 3: Elinori Eyanes just about ruined my marriage coming. But what

1387
01:11:11,001 --> 01:11:14,401
Speaker 3: I did do is planned a bank robberie and we

1388
01:11:14,481 --> 01:11:16,721
Speaker 3: went out lived in South Australia for a couple of years.

1389
01:11:17,801 --> 01:11:20,041
Speaker 3: I was working over there for Carls and whatnot. Dad

1390
01:11:20,121 --> 01:11:22,961
Speaker 3: got sick. I had to come back to Sydney and

1391
01:11:23,601 --> 01:11:26,801
Speaker 3: ran an old guy at the races and he said, John,

1392
01:11:27,401 --> 01:11:29,241
Speaker 3: I've known it r on the bank and I got

1393
01:11:29,281 --> 01:11:32,321
Speaker 3: involved in it to the extent that I introduced him

1394
01:11:32,321 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 3: another guy. They didn't know who you were, but I said, look, okay,

1395
01:11:36,241 --> 01:11:38,401
Speaker 3: we'll do it. We'll go over there later because I

1396
01:11:38,521 --> 01:11:40,281
Speaker 3: looked at this when I was there, and I've spent

1397
01:11:40,361 --> 01:11:43,441
Speaker 3: a lot of money on the bank and I just

1398
01:11:43,561 --> 01:11:47,641
Speaker 3: knew Friday afternoon the free guys can take this. So

1399
01:11:47,721 --> 01:11:50,481
Speaker 3: I said, okay, we'll do it. But when I went

1400
01:11:50,641 --> 01:11:53,641
Speaker 3: to his place a few days before the bank, i'd

1401
01:11:53,681 --> 01:11:55,401
Speaker 3: introduced him another guy. I didn't know who he was,

1402
01:11:55,481 --> 01:11:57,241
Speaker 3: but the other guy had the gun. I didn't have

1403
01:11:57,281 --> 01:12:00,361
Speaker 3: a gun at that stage, he and his wife they

1404
01:12:00,401 --> 01:12:03,881
Speaker 3: were fighting. They had some substance on the table and

1405
01:12:04,401 --> 01:12:07,401
Speaker 3: on a single send a noodle and the baby's cry.

1406
01:12:07,441 --> 01:12:10,001
Speaker 3: I knew what it was, and I thought he's a junkie.

1407
01:12:10,881 --> 01:12:13,921
Speaker 3: I didn't realize he's a junkie. And my mate had

1408
01:12:13,961 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 3: told me he had temper cent of his liver left.

1409
01:12:17,121 --> 01:12:20,841
Speaker 3: They called Harry visit and said, John, don't ever try

1410
01:12:20,881 --> 01:12:24,481
Speaker 3: suggest a junkie, said, I saw the rome. He said,

1411
01:12:24,521 --> 01:12:25,961
Speaker 3: it's just the way it is. They can't help it,

1412
01:12:26,641 --> 01:12:29,201
Speaker 3: and he'd burn a junking. He'd cured himself, but he loosto.

1413
01:12:31,281 --> 01:12:33,921
Speaker 3: So I just called her off. I said look, and

1414
01:12:34,361 --> 01:12:35,921
Speaker 3: he couldn't believe it. And I said, no, look, I'm

1415
01:12:35,961 --> 01:12:38,241
Speaker 3: not doing it because half me didn't want to do

1416
01:12:38,281 --> 01:12:40,881
Speaker 3: it anyway, because I was burnt out five years, I

1417
01:12:40,961 --> 01:12:45,721
Speaker 3: had a baby, you know, so I thought, I'm not

1418
01:12:45,801 --> 01:12:47,841
Speaker 3: doing it. I didn't do that Rory, but they went

1419
01:12:47,881 --> 01:12:49,481
Speaker 3: ahead and did it. He didn't know who the other

1420
01:12:49,561 --> 01:12:53,041
Speaker 3: guy was now going. They got caught. One guy got away,

1421
01:12:54,001 --> 01:12:59,201
Speaker 3: they got the money, got away. What happened somebody saw

1422
01:12:59,241 --> 01:13:02,441
Speaker 3: them the getaway car when they parked change the cars

1423
01:13:02,761 --> 01:13:05,041
Speaker 3: made They came around a cornerpparently made a lot of anoise,

1424
01:13:05,681 --> 01:13:07,961
Speaker 3: and a kid was food, and chooks looked the sword

1425
01:13:08,001 --> 01:13:12,121
Speaker 3: and took the number, and the other boat flew back Sydney.

1426
01:13:12,561 --> 01:13:18,601
Speaker 3: But he and his wife, she drove a car. They

1427
01:13:18,761 --> 01:13:21,761
Speaker 3: got in the car and drove booked you may tell it,

1428
01:13:22,881 --> 01:13:30,881
Speaker 3: and just outside outside of called Renmark, Redmark, and they

1429
01:13:30,961 --> 01:13:32,801
Speaker 3: had the number of the car, so they got or

1430
01:13:32,841 --> 01:13:37,881
Speaker 3: when they got him, he didn't know who theever guy was.

1431
01:13:38,801 --> 01:13:41,961
Speaker 3: So I read the transcripts later and the statement you

1432
01:13:42,001 --> 01:13:44,481
Speaker 3: made my lawyer show me, and he did try to

1433
01:13:44,521 --> 01:13:47,521
Speaker 3: coot me out of it. But when they said to him,

1434
01:13:49,041 --> 01:13:52,361
Speaker 3: either you tell us who the other guy was, or

1435
01:13:52,481 --> 01:13:56,921
Speaker 3: will charge your wife. And she drove a car and

1436
01:13:57,041 --> 01:13:59,601
Speaker 3: you'll lose the baby in a room. If you tell

1437
01:13:59,681 --> 01:14:02,041
Speaker 3: us who he was, we'll let her go. So that's

1438
01:14:02,081 --> 01:14:03,521
Speaker 3: what he did. He said it was mate, you didn't

1439
01:14:03,521 --> 01:14:05,681
Speaker 3: know the other guy. So they come and grabbed me.

1440
01:14:06,161 --> 01:14:08,601
Speaker 3: And I was in Sydney. Everybody saw me in Sydney.

1441
01:14:08,601 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 3: I had six seven witnesses saw me. People good, good character.

1442
01:14:14,081 --> 01:14:16,281
Speaker 3: I was not an adelaide. Couldn't have burn an adelaide

1443
01:14:16,881 --> 01:14:19,041
Speaker 3: because they got all the statements throwing out they extra

1444
01:14:19,081 --> 01:14:20,761
Speaker 3: owed me to salbustrated because they had a lot of

1445
01:14:20,761 --> 01:14:22,561
Speaker 3: pool in those days. And I just went along with

1446
01:14:22,721 --> 01:14:25,321
Speaker 3: that stuff. But what happened when I get there. I

1447
01:14:25,441 --> 01:14:27,321
Speaker 3: was winning a trial. I got the statements throwing out

1448
01:14:27,761 --> 01:14:31,961
Speaker 3: and I was going to walk Yeah, seven witnesses. Roger

1449
01:14:32,041 --> 01:14:34,961
Speaker 3: Rogerson came in. I didn't know who he was. And

1450
01:14:35,241 --> 01:14:39,601
Speaker 3: he walked in and he looked across and he was

1451
01:14:39,601 --> 01:14:43,081
Speaker 3: a glamor guy at the stage. He said, good ad,

1452
01:14:43,241 --> 01:14:48,121
Speaker 3: Johnny like that, and he's smiling him so and then

1453
01:14:48,361 --> 01:14:50,481
Speaker 3: what's that jury? They all said, oh, there, and they

1454
01:14:50,561 --> 01:14:52,601
Speaker 3: know each other pretty well. I never met him. And

1455
01:14:52,721 --> 01:14:56,521
Speaker 3: what he said, this is devised lodging. He said that

1456
01:14:56,761 --> 01:15:00,041
Speaker 3: the day the extradition hearing, that extradition hearing, I had

1457
01:15:00,161 --> 01:15:03,041
Speaker 3: called my witnesses. Seven of them said, look, collect was

1458
01:15:03,081 --> 01:15:04,961
Speaker 3: the Sydney when it happened. There was just no even

1459
01:15:05,201 --> 01:15:11,281
Speaker 3: at all, And they said that. Rogerson said during the

1460
01:15:11,401 --> 01:15:14,041
Speaker 3: lunch break he had another couple of men. He said,

1461
01:15:14,081 --> 01:15:17,161
Speaker 3: he and Peterford show me an air ticket was in

1462
01:15:17,241 --> 01:15:21,681
Speaker 3: the name of Richards And I said that there was

1463
01:15:21,721 --> 01:15:24,921
Speaker 3: a false name and that do you know anything about

1464
01:15:24,961 --> 01:15:29,721
Speaker 3: this anticket? And I'm spouted, said, oh ye, you share that.

1465
01:15:29,801 --> 01:15:31,801
Speaker 3: That's the one I use when I flew throw on

1466
01:15:31,841 --> 01:15:36,521
Speaker 3: the bank. How'd you get that? Come on? Am I

1467
01:15:36,601 --> 01:15:40,081
Speaker 3: going to say that the corner? Anyway? They used that

1468
01:15:40,521 --> 01:15:42,281
Speaker 3: and then the judge got in the end and said,

1469
01:15:42,761 --> 01:15:46,041
Speaker 3: you're going to believe Rody Rogerson and his friends, Well

1470
01:15:46,041 --> 01:15:48,401
Speaker 3: you can believe John killing, So who are here going

1471
01:15:48,441 --> 01:15:51,641
Speaker 3: to believe? They just ignored your evidence. So I went

1472
01:15:51,761 --> 01:15:54,841
Speaker 3: down on that and the High Court of Pearl had

1473
01:15:54,881 --> 01:15:57,441
Speaker 3: it all course, but three years. Took me three years

1474
01:15:57,481 --> 01:16:00,441
Speaker 3: to win it, and because it's very expensive getting the

1475
01:16:00,521 --> 01:16:02,881
Speaker 3: high court. So I finally got there and won the

1476
01:16:02,961 --> 01:16:05,081
Speaker 3: High Court of the Pearl. That got out and I

1477
01:16:05,121 --> 01:16:09,201
Speaker 3: am harm but the marriage stuffed because for me I

1478
01:16:09,441 --> 01:16:11,881
Speaker 3: was very better haw to chip my should and just

1479
01:16:13,201 --> 01:16:15,881
Speaker 3: there was no interested in real I wrote an article

1480
01:16:15,921 --> 01:16:18,761
Speaker 3: and I had some articles. I did a three year

1481
01:16:18,761 --> 01:16:22,041
Speaker 3: writing for media. Course was there and yah got top

1482
01:16:22,121 --> 01:16:26,161
Speaker 3: marks of state, bloody distinction, passes, hacked articles, funlies. I

1483
01:16:26,201 --> 01:16:28,521
Speaker 3: was running a John magazine. I was doing pretty well.

1484
01:16:28,521 --> 01:16:29,801
Speaker 3: I had a career. I was off at a place

1485
01:16:29,881 --> 01:16:31,881
Speaker 3: of deacon but that was down moadent. I wouldn't do it,

1486
01:16:32,081 --> 01:16:36,201
Speaker 3: take it, but I just wasn't interested in anything. I

1487
01:16:36,361 --> 01:16:40,361
Speaker 3: just thought, fucking I'm hitting back, and I hooked up

1488
01:16:40,361 --> 01:16:43,601
Speaker 3: with a girl half my age and we were the

1489
01:16:43,681 --> 01:16:47,601
Speaker 3: next three years, We're going around Australia, hitting banks, shop left,

1490
01:16:47,681 --> 01:16:51,041
Speaker 3: and stole a lot of cigarettes. We changed the whole

1491
01:16:51,081 --> 01:16:54,721
Speaker 3: system of cigarettes, put them in corn flag boxes, and

1492
01:16:55,241 --> 01:16:59,321
Speaker 3: I described them a book and just was a true criminal.

1493
01:16:59,401 --> 01:17:02,241
Speaker 3: There's no doubt was absolutely true. I've gone from being

1494
01:17:02,321 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 3: reform to that because that can been convicted, and knowing

1495
01:17:07,881 --> 01:17:10,481
Speaker 3: that i'd versely proven that I didn't do it, I

1496
01:17:10,561 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 3: still do it about it today. You know that sixteenth

1497
01:17:13,801 --> 01:17:17,561
Speaker 3: for June nine, nineteen sixty eight, seventy eight, nine seventy eight,

1498
01:17:18,001 --> 01:17:21,561
Speaker 3: it happened. And you know I only those dates. The

1499
01:17:21,641 --> 01:17:24,921
Speaker 3: sixteenth June ninety seventy eight when that happened sixteen during

1500
01:17:25,041 --> 01:17:27,481
Speaker 3: ten years. I sixty eight is a day I hit

1501
01:17:27,561 --> 01:17:32,241
Speaker 3: that prison over the head. So ten years later, two

1502
01:17:32,361 --> 01:17:36,281
Speaker 3: rotten things happened in my life. Wow, I really did it,

1503
01:17:36,401 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 3: because I eventually I got caught. Then she the girl,

1504
01:17:43,001 --> 01:17:46,441
Speaker 3: slipped me a pistol. It was a toy gun, and

1505
01:17:47,681 --> 01:17:50,561
Speaker 3: I was in Boga Road and shot my place and

1506
01:17:50,601 --> 01:17:52,001
Speaker 3: I said, look, we've got to get out of here.

1507
01:17:52,841 --> 01:17:56,361
Speaker 3: And she wanted me out. I said, we look, the

1508
01:17:56,441 --> 01:17:58,001
Speaker 3: only way we're going to do it is she going

1509
01:17:58,081 --> 01:18:01,161
Speaker 3: to have to slip me something a pistol, And we didn't.

1510
01:18:01,241 --> 01:18:05,561
Speaker 3: They'd taken a gun or she bought a report a pistol.

1511
01:18:06,561 --> 01:18:08,641
Speaker 3: I got to get someone in a friend of mine

1512
01:18:08,881 --> 01:18:12,041
Speaker 3: through a hole in the middle painted blake make it

1513
01:18:12,081 --> 01:18:14,601
Speaker 3: look Roal found out when I was going to the

1514
01:18:14,601 --> 01:18:17,161
Speaker 3: hospital in my space and over and I managed to

1515
01:18:17,161 --> 01:18:21,841
Speaker 3: find out, and she came over from adelaide was waiting

1516
01:18:21,921 --> 01:18:24,921
Speaker 3: there well, WI gone, but he standing behind a pot

1517
01:18:24,961 --> 01:18:30,121
Speaker 3: plant and I came out. I was handcuffed and really

1518
01:18:30,161 --> 01:18:33,121
Speaker 3: heavy screws here with me, and I just never forget.

1519
01:18:33,201 --> 01:18:36,721
Speaker 3: I coughed. The sceneer was that. I coughed, and she

1520
01:18:36,961 --> 01:18:39,281
Speaker 3: she runs over and I coughed, and she's standing there.

1521
01:18:39,721 --> 01:18:41,801
Speaker 3: He shot her young. She couldn't he couldn't move, and

1522
01:18:42,041 --> 01:18:44,881
Speaker 3: I coughed again. She's still standing in the stading there

1523
01:18:44,921 --> 01:18:46,321
Speaker 3: with a big old standing at me, and I thought

1524
01:18:46,401 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 3: she can't do it. And then the screws getting spich

1525
01:18:49,161 --> 01:18:51,761
Speaker 3: he did said, seen him under his fingersment like that,

1526
01:18:52,601 --> 01:18:55,881
Speaker 3: got the pistol in there, and ever screws standing there.

1527
01:18:56,001 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 3: One of what's going on? And I coughed, were aloud.

1528
01:18:58,761 --> 01:19:02,561
Speaker 3: She ran across. She had it inside inside a newspaper.

1529
01:19:03,001 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 3: She thrust it at me and I was hand got

1530
01:19:06,281 --> 01:19:08,321
Speaker 3: by the hand and got it, put it up like that,

1531
01:19:08,441 --> 01:19:11,121
Speaker 3: put to his head, and I see he was going

1532
01:19:11,201 --> 01:19:12,561
Speaker 3: to go for his gun. I said, don't do it.

1533
01:19:12,721 --> 01:19:15,561
Speaker 3: I said, I'll blow your head off. He thought about it,

1534
01:19:15,881 --> 01:19:19,201
Speaker 3: and he saw that the barrel of boon drawn it

1535
01:19:19,241 --> 01:19:22,321
Speaker 3: had black and he knew what he thought that it

1536
01:19:22,401 --> 01:19:26,001
Speaker 3: was wrong. So she'd run. She'd already gone. Then I

1537
01:19:26,081 --> 01:19:28,641
Speaker 3: spun around. I'd practiced with the cuffs, running up and

1538
01:19:28,721 --> 01:19:31,881
Speaker 3: down and inside itself, and got to the car and

1539
01:19:31,921 --> 01:19:34,401
Speaker 3: then we said we got the car. She had a shotgun.

1540
01:19:34,481 --> 01:19:36,681
Speaker 3: She mad a shotgun. He couldn't use a two B

1541
01:19:36,761 --> 01:19:39,121
Speaker 3: to use anything. I made of mind to give her that,

1542
01:19:40,161 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 3: and we got away and had for about twelve months.

1543
01:19:42,801 --> 01:19:45,121
Speaker 3: So I hit more banks when I was out, and

1544
01:19:46,281 --> 01:19:48,601
Speaker 3: I was probably most wanted to go in Australia at

1545
01:19:48,641 --> 01:19:52,201
Speaker 3: the time. So that that's how heavy I got. When

1546
01:19:52,441 --> 01:19:55,721
Speaker 3: I say heavy, it's not heavy, not something to be

1547
01:19:55,801 --> 01:19:57,881
Speaker 3: proud of. There was the wrong thing I was doing.

1548
01:19:57,961 --> 01:20:01,401
Speaker 3: And I've learned and I've worked was so college for

1549
01:20:01,521 --> 01:20:04,361
Speaker 3: a lot a long time the last ten years, getting

1550
01:20:04,401 --> 01:20:06,601
Speaker 3: across I get it across the young people. I've been

1551
01:20:06,641 --> 01:20:09,481
Speaker 3: out ten years and get it across it. You're robbin banks.

1552
01:20:09,801 --> 01:20:11,841
Speaker 3: So there's always that thing with me, Robin at banks,

1553
01:20:11,961 --> 01:20:15,401
Speaker 3: hitting bank in the banks. But you're not not Robin

1554
01:20:15,441 --> 01:20:18,521
Speaker 3: at banks. You know you're actually what you're doing, it's

1555
01:20:18,601 --> 01:20:20,881
Speaker 3: you against not the banks, but it's you against people

1556
01:20:20,921 --> 01:20:25,401
Speaker 3: inside the customers. Bloody tell us and what I do.

1557
01:20:25,481 --> 01:20:28,041
Speaker 3: And now I put Gloria as she's eighty four and

1558
01:20:28,161 --> 01:20:32,641
Speaker 3: she's pretty. If she was she was in a bank,

1559
01:20:32,801 --> 01:20:38,321
Speaker 3: somebody ran in Marista Yellown, orders were gun, she could

1560
01:20:38,361 --> 01:20:40,361
Speaker 3: have a heart attack. That's the way I look at it.

1561
01:20:40,801 --> 01:20:43,561
Speaker 3: So I know I have traumatized some people. A lot

1562
01:20:43,561 --> 01:20:48,720
Speaker 3: of them recover, some that don't. And so I say

1563
01:20:48,761 --> 01:20:51,521
Speaker 3: to guys, when you think about bank Robinson's and hold ups,

1564
01:20:51,961 --> 01:20:55,641
Speaker 3: what you've got to understand is you are traumatizing pople

1565
01:20:55,641 --> 01:20:57,161
Speaker 3: You're doing a lot of damage. You don't know, you

1566
01:20:57,241 --> 01:20:59,081
Speaker 3: might not know you're doing a lot of damage, but

1567
01:20:59,321 --> 01:21:01,081
Speaker 3: the thing is that you are. And that's why we

1568
01:21:01,121 --> 01:21:04,041
Speaker 3: get the big sentences. And we can never understand why

1569
01:21:04,121 --> 01:21:07,481
Speaker 3: we've got sentences as her as they were. But I

1570
01:21:07,601 --> 01:21:11,121
Speaker 3: always felt and I always said that the only thing

1571
01:21:11,201 --> 01:21:14,561
Speaker 3: that I always disagree with and still disagree was, although

1572
01:21:14,801 --> 01:21:17,561
Speaker 3: it's catching up now, but pedophiles, we see pedophiles get

1573
01:21:17,641 --> 01:21:19,841
Speaker 3: up for nine months, that they should have got nine years,

1574
01:21:20,561 --> 01:21:24,601
Speaker 3: but that that start try now too. But the way

1575
01:21:24,681 --> 01:21:27,521
Speaker 3: I would say look at it now is anybody that

1576
01:21:28,161 --> 01:21:32,561
Speaker 3: you don't glamorize bankrops, you don't glamorize escape because you

1577
01:21:32,641 --> 01:21:36,241
Speaker 3: know they're really they're bad people. And I accept that,

1578
01:21:36,321 --> 01:21:38,161
Speaker 3: and I accept that I was a bad person. But

1579
01:21:38,321 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 3: you can turn around. We can. We can all change.

1580
01:21:41,241 --> 01:21:44,241
Speaker 3: We just need the right attitude and and you've got

1581
01:21:44,281 --> 01:21:45,881
Speaker 3: to believe that you can do it, and you've got

1582
01:21:45,921 --> 01:21:47,641
Speaker 3: to have a reason to do it. And it does

1583
01:21:47,721 --> 01:21:49,601
Speaker 3: help if you've got friends. And I've always had a

1584
01:21:49,601 --> 01:21:51,881
Speaker 3: good friends. I've always had people stick by me.

1585
01:21:52,121 --> 01:21:54,561
Speaker 2: I think that's all the lot you know, but your

1586
01:21:54,681 --> 01:21:56,761
Speaker 2: your But when you when you when you did your

1587
01:21:56,761 --> 01:22:00,081
Speaker 2: bank robberies, they went massive halls there worthy.

1588
01:22:01,161 --> 01:22:03,601
Speaker 3: That's what I mean. I wasn't a professional. People say

1589
01:22:03,641 --> 01:22:06,321
Speaker 3: as a professional bankrop, and I robbed a lot of banks.

1590
01:22:06,401 --> 01:22:09,801
Speaker 3: But the thing is I just ran in usually nearly

1591
01:22:09,841 --> 01:22:12,681
Speaker 3: always ninety percent on my own ninety five percent of

1592
01:22:12,761 --> 01:22:19,961
Speaker 3: min and got probably between twenty to forty thou you

1593
01:22:20,041 --> 01:22:23,041
Speaker 3: look at guys like Abbott, they got a lot more money.

1594
01:22:23,081 --> 01:22:24,641
Speaker 3: And what I did, I would class have it as

1595
01:22:24,681 --> 01:22:27,321
Speaker 3: a professional bank. That's what he lived for. He didn't

1596
01:22:27,361 --> 01:22:29,601
Speaker 3: do any gass. He just ran backs. That wasn't me.

1597
01:22:30,201 --> 01:22:34,601
Speaker 3: You know. I worked at shops, the fat great bus writer.

1598
01:22:35,801 --> 01:22:38,281
Speaker 3: I job went around putting peoples and doors. I was

1599
01:22:38,321 --> 01:22:41,161
Speaker 3: working most of the time. Yeah, And it was the

1600
01:22:41,241 --> 01:22:43,121
Speaker 3: game they had got me if I would get into trouble.

1601
01:22:43,241 --> 01:22:45,441
Speaker 3: I remember when I was running a Lucy. They came

1602
01:22:45,561 --> 01:22:47,401
Speaker 3: up with this bloody warrant. It was thirty years old

1603
01:22:47,761 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 3: and we're on the run. And I borrowed ten grand

1604
01:22:51,401 --> 01:22:54,241
Speaker 3: from the guy that I had to pay it back,

1605
01:22:54,961 --> 01:22:57,481
Speaker 3: and I said, they're always optimus. So I said, we'll

1606
01:22:57,481 --> 01:23:02,001
Speaker 3: go down to Star City. I'll double it. I'll double

1607
01:23:02,041 --> 01:23:04,161
Speaker 3: the money. I said, we'll give it a ten grand

1608
01:23:04,201 --> 01:23:06,561
Speaker 3: back and then we'll go to mil I had seven ingrand,

1609
01:23:06,721 --> 01:23:10,401
Speaker 3: built up seven ingrand. She's as bad as me. Where

1610
01:23:10,521 --> 01:23:14,041
Speaker 3: Buddy now was going any breaks? She should have said

1611
01:23:14,041 --> 01:23:17,521
Speaker 3: to me, John, let's go. You got seven ah. But

1612
01:23:18,721 --> 01:23:22,001
Speaker 3: so three o'clock in the more, we walked out, broke nothing.

1613
01:23:23,001 --> 01:23:25,361
Speaker 3: I still remember to hear a click of her hurls

1614
01:23:25,441 --> 01:23:27,601
Speaker 3: behind me. She said, what we're going to do it now?

1615
01:23:28,081 --> 01:23:34,241
Speaker 3: I said, rober bank. She said, okay, that was it,

1616
01:23:34,361 --> 01:23:36,761
Speaker 3: And I got caught on that bank. That's the one

1617
01:23:36,801 --> 01:23:41,201
Speaker 3: I got caught on. It was twenty January in ninety nine,

1618
01:23:41,521 --> 01:23:43,961
Speaker 3: twenty fifth marths. She bowed them out in the chopper.

1619
01:23:44,721 --> 01:23:45,201
Speaker 3: So was that?

1620
01:23:45,281 --> 01:23:46,121
Speaker 1: What was that planned?

1621
01:23:46,521 --> 01:23:46,561
Speaker 3: Like?

1622
01:23:46,761 --> 01:23:48,961
Speaker 1: Did you plan that? Like when she was coming in

1623
01:23:49,281 --> 01:23:49,641
Speaker 1: to visit?

1624
01:23:49,761 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it had to be planned, could Yeah?

1625
01:23:52,401 --> 01:23:54,561
Speaker 1: And she just knew that, and she just thought, who's

1626
01:23:54,601 --> 01:23:55,161
Speaker 1: new thought of that?

1627
01:23:55,361 --> 01:23:57,361
Speaker 3: No, there was a lot of a lot of work

1628
01:23:57,441 --> 01:24:00,481
Speaker 3: gone to that. That's why people talk about it. But

1629
01:24:00,721 --> 01:24:03,561
Speaker 3: to do it it you need a lot of luck.

1630
01:24:03,841 --> 01:24:07,161
Speaker 3: I'll tell you. That's what I mean about fate. With fate,

1631
01:24:07,801 --> 01:24:09,721
Speaker 3: we got shot three times. They shot it three that's

1632
01:24:09,721 --> 01:24:12,081
Speaker 3: another three times. I got shot out now, yeah, down there,

1633
01:24:12,481 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 3: but they hit the chop three times. Yeah, but look

1634
01:24:18,801 --> 01:24:20,801
Speaker 3: I've said that, you know, I've been shot out all

1635
01:24:20,881 --> 01:24:24,081
Speaker 3: these times. I'm still alive. The things that have happened

1636
01:24:24,841 --> 01:24:27,441
Speaker 3: that suage channel more and that I was like they did,

1637
01:24:27,441 --> 01:24:29,961
Speaker 3: they didn't come there. Then the chopper they hit the chop,

1638
01:24:30,001 --> 01:24:31,761
Speaker 3: it didn't bring it down. All the things that have

1639
01:24:31,841 --> 01:24:34,681
Speaker 3: happened to me, I just believe it's fate that was

1640
01:24:34,721 --> 01:24:36,561
Speaker 3: meant for me to bured, to get out and to

1641
01:24:36,641 --> 01:24:40,521
Speaker 3: tell the stories, to write the books, and to tell

1642
01:24:41,081 --> 01:24:43,601
Speaker 3: a true history of kind of the not a chopperlike

1643
01:24:44,481 --> 01:24:47,441
Speaker 3: version of history, a true version, because I've got a

1644
01:24:47,481 --> 01:24:49,801
Speaker 3: photographic memory on dates you wanted to and stuff like that,

1645
01:24:50,441 --> 01:24:54,281
Speaker 3: and I know exactly where I was anytime, and I

1646
01:24:54,321 --> 01:24:55,680
Speaker 3: can tell you where I was, what I was doing.

1647
01:24:55,801 --> 01:24:59,361
Speaker 3: And now it had to be fate. We got why.

1648
01:24:59,441 --> 01:25:01,641
Speaker 3: I turn to why it worked. Lucy came to mend

1649
01:25:01,681 --> 01:25:03,921
Speaker 3: and said, look, I've got to get you out. She said,

1650
01:25:04,001 --> 01:25:07,321
Speaker 3: Jackie got you out on cos, I'll get you. I said,

1651
01:25:08,041 --> 01:25:11,201
Speaker 3: I've looked around. I said there's no way. She said,

1652
01:25:11,241 --> 01:25:13,961
Speaker 3: we can do it at court. But the spot used

1653
01:25:13,961 --> 01:25:15,721
Speaker 3: to take me to court because of my background, I

1654
01:25:15,961 --> 01:25:20,201
Speaker 3: had always escapes on me. So when I went to court,

1655
01:25:20,561 --> 01:25:23,361
Speaker 3: I had lead cuffs on me and a security built

1656
01:25:23,921 --> 01:25:27,801
Speaker 3: I said, and heavy screwters. I said, you try and

1657
01:25:28,321 --> 01:25:30,081
Speaker 3: put me out from there. I said, they're going to

1658
01:25:30,121 --> 01:25:33,321
Speaker 3: secure it. They're trying to do it. They're special trains.

1659
01:25:33,641 --> 01:25:36,761
Speaker 3: I said, we're not going out to do it, and

1660
01:25:37,761 --> 01:25:40,761
Speaker 3: I'd given her gun. She still had it. Calling an

1661
01:25:40,761 --> 01:25:43,881
Speaker 3: assassin's gun you can hold in your hand, she had

1662
01:25:43,921 --> 01:25:46,321
Speaker 3: it for protection. There's just two shots in it, but

1663
01:25:46,401 --> 01:25:49,721
Speaker 3: it's deadly. You can walk the assassins you and just

1664
01:25:49,801 --> 01:25:54,201
Speaker 3: came and walk past, and you're doing what they've done.

1665
01:25:54,761 --> 01:25:59,241
Speaker 3: I said, we need more than that. So I bought

1666
01:26:00,041 --> 01:26:05,321
Speaker 3: a summer shone office guy. But I found out later

1667
01:26:05,361 --> 01:26:08,441
Speaker 3: he was wrought at me. And what happened is it anyway?

1668
01:26:08,441 --> 01:26:11,281
Speaker 3: It didn't work, and the firing pin brink cuts I

1669
01:26:11,321 --> 01:26:14,321
Speaker 3: didn't work. We definitely en shot dead. There's no there

1670
01:26:14,361 --> 01:26:17,361
Speaker 3: because the machote gun didn't work and the small thing

1671
01:26:18,321 --> 01:26:22,961
Speaker 3: wouldn't stopped these guys with blocks training guys. So I

1672
01:26:23,121 --> 01:26:26,161
Speaker 3: knew that the only way we could do it would

1673
01:26:26,201 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 3: be just pull the all over everybody's eyzing and get

1674
01:26:29,721 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 3: out by the chopper. Now everybody's thought about everything in jailes.

1675
01:26:35,641 --> 01:26:39,481
Speaker 3: I don't think people realize that they're trained. They're not

1676
01:26:39,561 --> 01:26:42,361
Speaker 3: allowed under the Geneva Convention, they're not allowed to shoot

1677
01:26:42,401 --> 01:26:46,601
Speaker 3: at choppers because it could be honestly situated but although

1678
01:26:46,681 --> 01:26:49,601
Speaker 3: are not allowed, this guy did do it. And I

1679
01:26:49,721 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 3: still think they do it today. You know, I remember

1680
01:26:54,241 --> 01:26:57,680
Speaker 3: driving down a bamfast driving down from Golden They're squaddling

1681
01:26:57,681 --> 01:27:01,201
Speaker 3: around the car and I said, they said, you know,

1682
01:27:01,281 --> 01:27:04,201
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what jar that happens in because I said,

1683
01:27:04,201 --> 01:27:06,481
Speaker 3: it'll happened again, and they said, yeah, they'll get shot down.

1684
01:27:06,521 --> 01:27:08,241
Speaker 3: I still have a ladder. I said, don't care. They'll

1685
01:27:08,241 --> 01:27:12,481
Speaker 3: still do it. I'll still do it. It's them a

1686
01:27:12,521 --> 01:27:16,801
Speaker 3: glory glory. Any other gile it would have worked. But

1687
01:27:17,361 --> 01:27:22,241
Speaker 3: because with saw water, I just noticed every day we

1688
01:27:22,441 --> 01:27:25,601
Speaker 3: only lay it out in the able twice twice a

1689
01:27:25,641 --> 01:27:28,641
Speaker 3: week and only allowed out for an hour. But when

1690
01:27:28,641 --> 01:27:31,161
Speaker 3: I was out there, I would see ten choppers coming

1691
01:27:31,521 --> 01:27:35,561
Speaker 3: in that hour, and I thought, what you know? And

1692
01:27:35,641 --> 01:27:39,920
Speaker 3: then and I looked at the screws, and they're mostly Indians,

1693
01:27:40,401 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 3: and you know they they taking notice. They stand around

1694
01:27:46,761 --> 01:27:51,481
Speaker 3: and chaining notes, and I thought, that's because there's so

1695
01:27:51,601 --> 01:27:54,601
Speaker 3: many it's happened so often they become blas if it's

1696
01:27:54,921 --> 01:27:57,961
Speaker 3: ten in an hour, how many a day, how many

1697
01:27:58,201 --> 01:28:01,521
Speaker 3: days they burn here, they've probably seen a thousand tops go.

1698
01:28:02,361 --> 01:28:05,641
Speaker 3: They screw up baths. Maybe see one a year. I

1699
01:28:05,761 --> 01:28:08,881
Speaker 3: knew they dropped their guard. So it's still going to

1700
01:28:08,921 --> 01:28:12,521
Speaker 3: be hard, but we've got a chance. But we didn't

1701
01:28:12,561 --> 01:28:14,881
Speaker 3: know anything about jobs. And that's what I mean about fate.

1702
01:28:15,241 --> 01:28:18,481
Speaker 3: That is where fate stepped in. There was a guy,

1703
01:28:18,721 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 3: his name is Bennett, Paul Bennett. He got extraded because

1704
01:28:22,161 --> 01:28:24,361
Speaker 3: he was kind man. He kind of everybody, everybody and

1705
01:28:24,761 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 3: the extra from South Africa, Scotland, New Zealand to Sydney.

1706
01:28:32,881 --> 01:28:37,161
Speaker 3: He arrived at Sydney. It's all a few days after me,

1707
01:28:38,001 --> 01:28:41,081
Speaker 3: about a few weeks after me. They put him in

1708
01:28:41,121 --> 01:28:45,201
Speaker 3: my wing. And this is extraordinary. I'm thinking about a

1709
01:28:45,241 --> 01:28:47,921
Speaker 3: tropical and all of a sudden correctly serves supplying me

1710
01:28:48,281 --> 01:28:51,041
Speaker 3: with a tropical pilot, you know, and they put him

1711
01:28:51,041 --> 01:28:55,961
Speaker 3: in my wing. But guess what I got him in myself. Now, Look,

1712
01:28:56,161 --> 01:28:59,441
Speaker 3: the odds are a miny to one. I reckon lad

1713
01:28:59,481 --> 01:29:01,361
Speaker 3: Brakes La a minute to one that this could happen.

1714
01:29:02,241 --> 01:29:04,521
Speaker 3: And I started thinking, this is a setup. They know

1715
01:29:04,561 --> 01:29:08,001
Speaker 3: what I'm going to do. Something they sent me out.

1716
01:29:09,401 --> 01:29:11,481
Speaker 3: But then I realized it wasn't. Then he's economy and

1717
01:29:11,561 --> 01:29:13,641
Speaker 3: he knew who I was, and he started saying to me,

1718
01:29:14,921 --> 01:29:18,361
Speaker 3: I can get you out of the chum. I said,

1719
01:29:18,401 --> 01:29:19,721
Speaker 3: how would you do it? He said, I'd just fly

1720
01:29:19,881 --> 01:29:24,121
Speaker 3: straight in pick up the fire. He said. I said,

1721
01:29:24,161 --> 01:29:26,521
Speaker 3: how much you want? You sit ten games? Because I

1722
01:29:26,641 --> 01:29:28,161
Speaker 3: tell him myself, I've still got the money from the

1723
01:29:28,201 --> 01:29:29,881
Speaker 3: bank road because I didn't find the money for me.

1724
01:29:30,161 --> 01:29:32,641
Speaker 3: They didn't find the money from the bank robbing. And

1725
01:29:32,921 --> 01:29:34,401
Speaker 3: I tell my still that it we didn't. But I

1726
01:29:34,481 --> 01:29:36,441
Speaker 3: tell him we still had it. He said, well, look,

1727
01:29:37,161 --> 01:29:39,841
Speaker 3: I'll do it for twenty or ten grand up front.

1728
01:29:40,121 --> 01:29:42,041
Speaker 3: And I said, but I didn't believe what he said,

1729
01:29:42,481 --> 01:29:45,681
Speaker 3: And so I got loose. She's putting money and his

1730
01:29:45,801 --> 01:29:49,281
Speaker 3: property for him, and getting his clothes dry, clan ringing

1731
01:29:49,321 --> 01:29:52,361
Speaker 3: up lawyers for him, and all the time I'm pumping.

1732
01:29:52,881 --> 01:29:57,881
Speaker 3: He's got books on helicopters, and I'm getting all the

1733
01:29:57,921 --> 01:30:02,001
Speaker 3: information from him. I said, reading the book, what's the transponder?

1734
01:30:02,361 --> 01:30:04,121
Speaker 3: I was a transponder that's a sign of alarm that

1735
01:30:04,241 --> 01:30:06,881
Speaker 3: goes through your flordays if you're in trouble and you

1736
01:30:07,041 --> 01:30:10,281
Speaker 3: hit that and the other choppers coming. So I thought,

1737
01:30:10,361 --> 01:30:13,561
Speaker 3: where's that? He showed where I was. So I said

1738
01:30:13,561 --> 01:30:15,601
Speaker 3: to Luci, you've got to do a trial, trial, run

1739
01:30:16,201 --> 01:30:18,801
Speaker 3: hire a chopper, find out where the transponder is, have

1740
01:30:18,881 --> 01:30:21,201
Speaker 3: a look. That's what you're going for. You got to

1741
01:30:21,521 --> 01:30:23,481
Speaker 3: stopping and getting that. I said, you need to take

1742
01:30:23,561 --> 01:30:27,720
Speaker 3: his ear phanes off so all and by the time

1743
01:30:28,521 --> 01:30:31,481
Speaker 3: that we're ready to do it. And when I said,

1744
01:30:31,601 --> 01:30:33,641
Speaker 3: I said we can get out, I said, well, you're

1745
01:30:33,681 --> 01:30:37,680
Speaker 3: going to have to hijack bay helicopter. She said, brilliant, brilliant.

1746
01:30:38,321 --> 01:30:41,001
Speaker 3: So I mean she was just about fearless. You know,

1747
01:30:41,321 --> 01:30:44,561
Speaker 3: we've done a lot of stuff, but this this was

1748
01:30:44,641 --> 01:30:49,880
Speaker 3: something something else again and so she said, yeah, brilliant.

1749
01:30:50,881 --> 01:30:54,761
Speaker 3: So she did a trial run, came back in. She's

1750
01:30:54,841 --> 01:30:58,241
Speaker 3: all excited. I said, it'll work. I know where the

1751
01:30:58,281 --> 01:31:01,001
Speaker 3: transponder is, I know this, I know that, etc. We

1752
01:31:01,081 --> 01:31:03,641
Speaker 3: can do it. So that was it. We decided to

1753
01:31:03,681 --> 01:31:05,881
Speaker 3: do it. So the only thing is we only got

1754
01:31:05,881 --> 01:31:09,161
Speaker 3: I only got out twice a week and I had

1755
01:31:09,201 --> 01:31:12,161
Speaker 3: to bring that able when she came and to do that.

1756
01:31:12,481 --> 01:31:15,921
Speaker 3: It's very dicey in John particularly places order because they're

1757
01:31:15,961 --> 01:31:17,561
Speaker 3: always having staff shortages.

1758
01:31:17,801 --> 01:31:18,841
Speaker 1: Fight, things can change.

1759
01:31:18,961 --> 01:31:22,481
Speaker 3: Yeah, fights the week before a Muslim guy, We're going

1760
01:31:22,521 --> 01:31:24,601
Speaker 3: to do it. Then something happened. We didn't do it.

1761
01:31:24,681 --> 01:31:27,641
Speaker 3: But the Muslim guy hanged himself and they shut the

1762
01:31:27,681 --> 01:31:29,641
Speaker 3: whole place down because they come in and do it

1763
01:31:29,681 --> 01:31:34,921
Speaker 3: if you straight away, and so I knew I had

1764
01:31:34,961 --> 01:31:38,121
Speaker 3: to be able to talk to her before she did it,

1765
01:31:38,761 --> 01:31:40,081
Speaker 3: So I when't it to come out that morning. It

1766
01:31:40,201 --> 01:31:43,041
Speaker 3: was they let us out bloody about ten minutes late.

1767
01:31:43,081 --> 01:31:45,601
Speaker 3: So I already I only got a number fifteen minutes

1768
01:31:46,601 --> 01:31:48,361
Speaker 3: and there's a line. There's only one phone. There's a

1769
01:31:48,441 --> 01:31:53,001
Speaker 3: line for the phone because I was out about tenth guys. Look,

1770
01:31:53,001 --> 01:31:55,801
Speaker 3: I've got to ring my lawyer. It's desperate. I really

1771
01:31:55,881 --> 01:31:57,761
Speaker 3: need to ring a lawyer. I was, I can't have

1772
01:31:57,921 --> 01:32:02,001
Speaker 3: anybody at court. I said ten seconds. So they let

1773
01:32:02,081 --> 01:32:05,841
Speaker 3: me in and I rang loosing. She was waiting near

1774
01:32:05,881 --> 01:32:09,041
Speaker 3: the airport and I said, I was just reading to

1775
01:32:09,081 --> 01:32:11,121
Speaker 3: say I'm going out for training and I don't want

1776
01:32:11,121 --> 01:32:13,401
Speaker 3: to get back and give you a call. Okay, Well

1777
01:32:13,481 --> 01:32:17,401
Speaker 3: she knew, yeah she was going out, and because I

1778
01:32:17,481 --> 01:32:20,401
Speaker 3: asked the screw, he said, yeah, we're going out. And

1779
01:32:22,361 --> 01:32:26,361
Speaker 3: there was probably I ate a nine choppers come over.

1780
01:32:26,601 --> 01:32:30,001
Speaker 3: Every time one come over. My heart was found. I

1781
01:32:30,121 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 3: was sweating, but I took the chop a pile out

1782
01:32:32,721 --> 01:32:37,721
Speaker 3: with me because I thought if if she does it,

1783
01:32:38,241 --> 01:32:41,161
Speaker 3: she lands and he jumps out and runs away. Yeah,

1784
01:32:41,521 --> 01:32:44,121
Speaker 3: you've got my own pilot. Yeah, and he'll probably come.

1785
01:32:44,961 --> 01:32:47,481
Speaker 3: So I had the backup, and they were dirty about

1786
01:32:47,481 --> 01:32:49,441
Speaker 3: that too. They knew they knew I had the backup.

1787
01:32:50,961 --> 01:32:55,561
Speaker 3: So finally about five about seven minutes before it comes,

1788
01:32:55,601 --> 01:32:57,801
Speaker 3: and I was thinking, what am I going to do this?

1789
01:32:58,121 --> 01:32:59,561
Speaker 3: I knew she'd do it. It's going to be a

1790
01:32:59,601 --> 01:33:02,241
Speaker 3: worse stand up date in history. She's going to get

1791
01:33:02,321 --> 01:33:05,241
Speaker 3: there and they're going to be a different career. Won't

1792
01:33:05,241 --> 01:33:07,241
Speaker 3: be here, should be looking around and I'm not there,

1793
01:33:08,601 --> 01:33:12,161
Speaker 3: and God knows what's going to happen to her. So

1794
01:33:12,241 --> 01:33:14,161
Speaker 3: I thought, all I'm gonna do is fall on the ground.

1795
01:33:14,201 --> 01:33:16,441
Speaker 3: So I'm having a heart attack because the protocol there

1796
01:33:16,561 --> 01:33:18,801
Speaker 3: is that they don't grab me and pick up they

1797
01:33:18,881 --> 01:33:20,681
Speaker 3: get might take it out of ten minutes for me.

1798
01:33:20,761 --> 01:33:22,521
Speaker 3: I was running away and then she came. Sure enough

1799
01:33:22,601 --> 01:33:26,041
Speaker 3: she came, and I got a couple of crews into trouble.

1800
01:33:26,641 --> 01:33:33,041
Speaker 3: There's heavy crim he's in now doing a long time Kevin.

1801
01:33:33,081 --> 01:33:36,361
Speaker 3: I won't say a second time, but he got Billy Mayer.

1802
01:33:36,521 --> 01:33:38,721
Speaker 3: You've heard Billy Bayer come over to him and he

1803
01:33:38,721 --> 01:33:41,161
Speaker 3: said John Kevin wants to see you, And I said Tom.

1804
01:33:42,401 --> 01:33:44,841
Speaker 3: He came back five minutes and he said, John Kevin

1805
01:33:45,121 --> 01:33:49,321
Speaker 3: wants to see it. Definitely, said christ. So nothing happened

1806
01:33:49,321 --> 01:33:52,720
Speaker 3: to Billy funny enough, So I went over and keV

1807
01:33:52,761 --> 01:33:56,641
Speaker 3: had some chocolates. They just got their mine. I said, no, Ken, yeah,

1808
01:33:57,121 --> 01:34:01,721
Speaker 3: I don't just give them a tomorra. He said fortune once.

1809
01:34:01,841 --> 01:34:05,961
Speaker 3: I said no, it's all right. When I got away,

1810
01:34:06,681 --> 01:34:08,641
Speaker 3: they changed all ninety people out of it and they

1811
01:34:08,681 --> 01:34:12,161
Speaker 3: shut the thing down. They were dirty. They changed ninety

1812
01:34:12,161 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 3: of them out of the job. He was the first

1813
01:34:13,801 --> 01:34:16,121
Speaker 3: one I got because they got played back the camera.

1814
01:34:17,401 --> 01:34:23,121
Speaker 3: They didn't touch Billy Bayern, but they grabbed keV, took

1815
01:34:23,161 --> 01:34:25,401
Speaker 3: him to left gun and put him in seagra for

1816
01:34:25,521 --> 01:34:26,161
Speaker 3: eighteen months.

1817
01:34:26,521 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 1: Wow.

1818
01:34:27,081 --> 01:34:29,681
Speaker 3: Yeah, eight months because they thought just.

1819
01:34:29,681 --> 01:34:31,561
Speaker 1: For giving you wanted to give you a chocolate.

1820
01:34:34,841 --> 01:34:41,481
Speaker 3: Out and left care immensely and he saw me away. Yeah,

1821
01:34:41,561 --> 01:34:45,281
Speaker 3: because you wouldn't learned something else happened later down the track.

1822
01:34:45,481 --> 01:34:47,801
Speaker 3: If somebody made up the story loosers, when we got caught,

1823
01:34:47,801 --> 01:34:49,681
Speaker 3: who's going to jump over the wall? Can you believe it?

1824
01:34:49,801 --> 01:34:52,881
Speaker 3: And from where she was at the environment and she

1825
01:34:53,001 --> 01:34:55,561
Speaker 3: was going to bust me Kevin and another guy out

1826
01:34:55,561 --> 01:34:58,321
Speaker 3: of Joe instead. Now you had a lot of money.

1827
01:34:58,801 --> 01:35:02,041
Speaker 3: And they actually shangled and put him in sigarette so

1828
01:35:02,201 --> 01:35:06,121
Speaker 3: that they act on crap the information. But they didn't

1829
01:35:06,161 --> 01:35:09,361
Speaker 3: get any information about this. But what they did then

1830
01:35:09,521 --> 01:35:13,241
Speaker 3: a woman rang up John Laws and said that her

1831
01:35:13,361 --> 01:35:15,641
Speaker 3: husband was a screwer and they knew I was going.

1832
01:35:16,481 --> 01:35:19,321
Speaker 3: They knew I was going, And it's a disgrace. So

1833
01:35:20,721 --> 01:35:24,121
Speaker 3: it makes me think that that be with a pin

1834
01:35:24,201 --> 01:35:28,921
Speaker 3: cunt on the machine on the machine gun, they somehow

1835
01:35:29,041 --> 01:35:31,121
Speaker 3: knew that we're going to go. Yeah, and they were

1836
01:35:31,161 --> 01:35:33,041
Speaker 3: waiting for us. They just didn't expect it to go.

1837
01:35:33,361 --> 01:35:34,921
Speaker 3: And that's probably what it's so dirty.

1838
01:35:35,841 --> 01:35:39,081
Speaker 1: And I just think that what was going for your

1839
01:35:39,081 --> 01:35:42,841
Speaker 1: mon When that helicopter landed, well, it was incredible.

1840
01:35:43,441 --> 01:35:44,921
Speaker 3: I knew it was her. I knew it was her

1841
01:35:45,001 --> 01:35:48,641
Speaker 3: because what he did. I knew what what had to do.

1842
01:35:48,761 --> 01:35:51,401
Speaker 3: It just had to come in land and take off

1843
01:35:51,441 --> 01:35:54,841
Speaker 3: before they get it. He went around like that trying

1844
01:35:54,841 --> 01:35:56,801
Speaker 3: to track attends to it. He denies it, but he did.

1845
01:35:57,161 --> 01:35:57,681
Speaker 1: That's what he did.

1846
01:35:58,121 --> 01:36:00,281
Speaker 3: Well. By the time I got in there, I ran

1847
01:36:00,321 --> 01:36:06,081
Speaker 3: across and I looked across the the prison office, and

1848
01:36:06,521 --> 01:36:09,161
Speaker 3: they not having to go with Indians, but they are

1849
01:36:09,201 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 3: all Indians, and they just stood there together, and they're

1850
01:36:12,001 --> 01:36:16,441
Speaker 3: pointing the point that I really do think Osie screws

1851
01:36:17,401 --> 01:36:20,561
Speaker 3: better train would have ran out and cut off different angles.

1852
01:36:20,721 --> 01:36:22,601
Speaker 3: I really do think they would have done that. And

1853
01:36:22,961 --> 01:36:26,281
Speaker 3: because I know how to operate. And also I saw

1854
01:36:26,401 --> 01:36:29,641
Speaker 3: the guy from the tower from the sports thing, pretty

1855
01:36:29,681 --> 01:36:34,161
Speaker 3: fit guy running and the dog squad arrived quickly and

1856
01:36:34,241 --> 01:36:36,441
Speaker 3: they dived out there, but they had pistols. But then

1857
01:36:36,481 --> 01:36:38,681
Speaker 3: I jumped on to the side of a chop and

1858
01:36:38,721 --> 01:36:40,561
Speaker 3: shooting here in the machine gun. I sat on and

1859
01:36:40,641 --> 01:36:43,281
Speaker 3: I just swung around like that were even. They all

1860
01:36:43,481 --> 01:36:46,201
Speaker 3: died at the ground, and that's what saying. But then

1861
01:36:46,241 --> 01:36:48,481
Speaker 3: the guy from the tower had time to get get

1862
01:36:48,521 --> 01:36:51,321
Speaker 3: it out and he shown pink pink, pink freed ims

1863
01:36:51,361 --> 01:36:55,041
Speaker 3: hit has just just missed a silicon cable. It it

1864
01:36:55,121 --> 01:36:59,001
Speaker 3: hits that we're down, we're gone, and we're God knows

1865
01:36:59,001 --> 01:37:01,041
Speaker 3: how many people would have That's no a reason. We

1866
01:37:01,161 --> 01:37:06,041
Speaker 3: got to hit pretty heavy sentence because what happened. But

1867
01:37:06,561 --> 01:37:08,441
Speaker 3: you know, I got twenty eight years for that. He's

1868
01:37:08,521 --> 01:37:13,041
Speaker 3: got ten. Now. The way I said is that it

1869
01:37:13,441 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 3: had to be fate that he missed us with the bullets,

1870
01:37:17,201 --> 01:37:19,921
Speaker 3: you know all the time when shot outs, had to

1871
01:37:19,961 --> 01:37:22,761
Speaker 3: be fate that that I had to be there at

1872
01:37:22,761 --> 01:37:27,001
Speaker 3: that time when that pilot was there. Without that pilot coming,

1873
01:37:27,361 --> 01:37:29,481
Speaker 3: we couldn't have gone. Later on, he got out and

1874
01:37:29,561 --> 01:37:33,481
Speaker 3: got a job of Russell Crow. Yeah, yeah, but he

1875
01:37:33,561 --> 01:37:35,641
Speaker 3: fell out with Russell. He'd done something I don't I'm

1876
01:37:35,681 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 3: not going to be done upset Russell.

1877
01:37:38,361 --> 01:37:39,841
Speaker 1: So what you were on the You're on the run.

1878
01:37:39,881 --> 01:37:41,041
Speaker 1: Doough for forty five days? Yeah?

1879
01:37:41,161 --> 01:37:43,521
Speaker 3: Yeah, only forty five days? It was likely to be

1880
01:37:43,601 --> 01:37:45,401
Speaker 3: four days. So the heat was incredible.

1881
01:37:46,201 --> 01:37:48,841
Speaker 1: Wire We hardened for forty five days, just anywhere you could.

1882
01:37:48,921 --> 01:37:51,441
Speaker 3: We moved around. We went down to Melbourne. The thing

1883
01:37:51,601 --> 01:37:56,081
Speaker 3: is that I had a guy those passports and that

1884
01:37:56,281 --> 01:37:59,041
Speaker 3: was it. If we could have gone lower. But when

1885
01:37:59,321 --> 01:38:01,641
Speaker 3: he was in jail, but I rang his missus. I

1886
01:38:01,681 --> 01:38:03,761
Speaker 3: thought it was sweet with the missus and yeah, she

1887
01:38:03,961 --> 01:38:08,561
Speaker 3: very staunch, and she said, John, they're on us. She

1888
01:38:08,721 --> 01:38:12,921
Speaker 3: hung up, So I found out they just I don't

1889
01:38:13,001 --> 01:38:15,441
Speaker 3: know how they got onto so many contacts I had that.

1890
01:38:15,961 --> 01:38:18,361
Speaker 3: I said to Lucia, were on every bloody aren't. We

1891
01:38:18,441 --> 01:38:20,441
Speaker 3: haven't got any help at all. And that's that's what

1892
01:38:20,601 --> 01:38:23,921
Speaker 3: fucked us, because if you couldn't get out of the country,

1893
01:38:23,921 --> 01:38:26,161
Speaker 3: you're not going to make it. And I knew that

1894
01:38:27,281 --> 01:38:29,680
Speaker 3: it was a mistake about mistake, but at the time,

1895
01:38:31,481 --> 01:38:34,121
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, if we can just lie low

1896
01:38:35,081 --> 01:38:37,761
Speaker 3: for six months and you use passwords and get out,

1897
01:38:37,921 --> 01:38:41,121
Speaker 3: we could do it. Because I know you're Scott, tattoos

1898
01:38:41,161 --> 01:38:43,641
Speaker 3: or anything like that. I could sort of blend in,

1899
01:38:44,321 --> 01:38:50,881
Speaker 3: change hair changes, had a pretty good chance of getting out.

1900
01:38:51,161 --> 01:38:55,321
Speaker 3: But it wasn't to me and I look back down,

1901
01:38:56,801 --> 01:38:59,001
Speaker 3: both of us would regret what happened. But the thing is,

1902
01:38:59,681 --> 01:39:01,881
Speaker 3: I'm doing a lot of good things now, I really am.

1903
01:39:03,561 --> 01:39:06,521
Speaker 3: You know. I helped kids over so has written seven books.

1904
01:39:06,641 --> 01:39:09,841
Speaker 3: I do lectures at the university, do stuff like that.

1905
01:39:10,801 --> 01:39:14,961
Speaker 3: And what what I do would say to that. I've

1906
01:39:15,041 --> 01:39:16,721
Speaker 3: got to say this, And I've had a lot of

1907
01:39:16,801 --> 01:39:22,761
Speaker 3: help from Steve Cook, who was actually the guy who

1908
01:39:22,801 --> 01:39:27,081
Speaker 3: instigated started the Voice of the Vina. He's now the

1909
01:39:27,161 --> 01:39:33,161
Speaker 3: Warriors and which is versonal another name for survivor. But

1910
01:39:33,841 --> 01:39:38,921
Speaker 3: but the thing is, I my main message to get

1911
01:39:38,921 --> 01:39:42,801
Speaker 3: across is that I accept that I've been a bad guy,

1912
01:39:43,361 --> 01:39:45,281
Speaker 3: you know, and I accept that what I did was wrong,

1913
01:39:45,761 --> 01:39:48,401
Speaker 3: and I didn't, you know, I didn't see that until

1914
01:39:48,401 --> 01:39:51,761
Speaker 3: I work with likes. I didn't sue that. It just

1915
01:39:52,481 --> 01:39:55,121
Speaker 3: was a game to me, as we bank against the banks,

1916
01:39:55,201 --> 01:39:59,841
Speaker 3: and banks are bastards, and they're still barstards. But the

1917
01:39:59,961 --> 01:40:02,321
Speaker 3: people in it aren't. The people worked there aren't, and

1918
01:40:02,521 --> 01:40:04,881
Speaker 3: and and the people that the customers aren't, they don't

1919
01:40:04,921 --> 01:40:07,681
Speaker 3: as I heard someone coming at you horizonment, But I

1920
01:40:07,721 --> 01:40:10,361
Speaker 3: would say the same about any arm robberie where you're

1921
01:40:10,401 --> 01:40:13,201
Speaker 3: holding up a drunk in the park or grabbing a

1922
01:40:13,241 --> 01:40:15,841
Speaker 3: guy out of toilet. You know, it's the same thing.

1923
01:40:16,481 --> 01:40:19,201
Speaker 3: You're putting people in fear of it, and it's just

1924
01:40:19,521 --> 01:40:22,801
Speaker 3: it's the wrong thing to do it. And I've had

1925
01:40:22,881 --> 01:40:24,761
Speaker 3: guns point at me and it's not a very nice thing.

1926
01:40:25,561 --> 01:40:27,321
Speaker 3: I did a show with Mike Willerson and he pulled

1927
01:40:27,361 --> 01:40:30,161
Speaker 3: a gun on me unexpectedly and I got to shot

1928
01:40:30,201 --> 01:40:36,601
Speaker 3: my life and he said, now you know it. But look,

1929
01:40:37,681 --> 01:40:41,321
Speaker 3: I'm wanted to call in and do do a podcast

1930
01:40:41,401 --> 01:40:45,201
Speaker 3: with you. I think he's happy to talk about these

1931
01:40:45,241 --> 01:40:48,641
Speaker 3: things and get get the point across that guys like me.

1932
01:40:49,201 --> 01:40:51,921
Speaker 3: It's good that guys like me, And there's ronnieish Wood,

1933
01:40:52,721 --> 01:40:56,881
Speaker 3: so many people that have been Bernie, Bernie Matthews when

1934
01:40:57,281 --> 01:40:59,961
Speaker 3: he's dead now, but got out, got good books out

1935
01:41:01,001 --> 01:41:06,001
Speaker 3: and do the whole mornings, whole talks and get across

1936
01:41:06,001 --> 01:41:09,521
Speaker 3: the people. Look, you know we're the wrong guys to

1937
01:41:09,601 --> 01:41:11,881
Speaker 3: follow it, but you can look at what we are

1938
01:41:11,961 --> 01:41:14,481
Speaker 3: now and what we're doing, and the message is there

1939
01:41:14,841 --> 01:41:18,201
Speaker 3: that you can change. You can change, and if you're

1940
01:41:18,241 --> 01:41:20,281
Speaker 3: determined to change, the change has got to come from within.

1941
01:41:20,921 --> 01:41:24,121
Speaker 3: If you want to rehabilitate, it's people can't force you

1942
01:41:24,161 --> 01:41:26,681
Speaker 3: to rehabilitate. You know, it never forced me. I just

1943
01:41:26,721 --> 01:41:29,161
Speaker 3: went from one thing or I had to make that decision.

1944
01:41:29,601 --> 01:41:32,281
Speaker 3: But you know the greatest thing is to have friends

1945
01:41:32,921 --> 01:41:36,761
Speaker 3: and have mentors that they can help you. And to

1946
01:41:36,881 --> 01:41:40,081
Speaker 3: have a mentor and friends, you've still got to basically

1947
01:41:40,561 --> 01:41:44,441
Speaker 3: have some decency' hat you. I think that our major

1948
01:41:44,521 --> 01:41:47,481
Speaker 3: problem now and you would know it is drugs. Drugs

1949
01:41:47,601 --> 01:41:51,641
Speaker 3: is a huge point. I've done some UNI talks where

1950
01:41:51,641 --> 01:41:53,881
Speaker 3: we've had experts get up and give us facts in

1951
01:41:54,041 --> 01:41:56,961
Speaker 3: order to keep a young guy and Jarle in an

1952
01:41:57,001 --> 01:41:59,201
Speaker 3: institution of my young guy. I didn't believe it, but

1953
01:41:59,281 --> 01:42:01,081
Speaker 3: it's parish true. It is quite a way of minister

1954
01:42:01,241 --> 01:42:05,201
Speaker 3: a million dollars a year. That's extraordinary when you're when

1955
01:42:05,241 --> 01:42:09,441
Speaker 3: you think about the money we could spend manager. And

1956
01:42:09,721 --> 01:42:14,281
Speaker 3: Australia has always had this attitude from since seventy eight. Punished, punished, punished.

1957
01:42:14,321 --> 01:42:15,921
Speaker 3: They hanged to go in the first couple of weeks

1958
01:42:16,281 --> 01:42:19,561
Speaker 3: for a shirt and a bit of food. They set

1959
01:42:19,561 --> 01:42:24,121
Speaker 3: an example. And you know controversy we've had over the

1960
01:42:24,201 --> 01:42:28,201
Speaker 3: Hang of Brian that they've actually it's concrete now in

1961
01:42:28,321 --> 01:42:30,841
Speaker 3: the Lord Will. There will never be any more excuses.

1962
01:42:31,241 --> 01:42:34,601
Speaker 3: But you know, we hanged hundreds of people. We expected

1963
01:42:34,681 --> 01:42:38,201
Speaker 3: hundreds of people in this country, hundreds and women to

1964
01:42:39,561 --> 01:42:42,561
Speaker 3: some of them did deserve to go. And I just

1965
01:42:42,641 --> 01:42:45,841
Speaker 3: think people don't believe it. Down in Penridge, the last

1966
01:42:45,921 --> 01:42:49,521
Speaker 3: man two men were actually in the fifties fifty eight

1967
01:42:49,801 --> 01:42:53,401
Speaker 3: were flogged catting nine times, you know, court punishment in

1968
01:42:53,801 --> 01:42:57,161
Speaker 3: nine fifty eight. I was breaking rocks in the sixties,

1969
01:42:57,321 --> 01:43:02,161
Speaker 3: breaking rocks. You just wouldn't believe that's, you know. And

1970
01:43:02,681 --> 01:43:04,721
Speaker 3: when you went to buy the road, I thought I

1971
01:43:04,801 --> 01:43:08,281
Speaker 3: was in another century up there for a while. So bad,

1972
01:43:08,401 --> 01:43:13,921
Speaker 3: So well, we're trying, we're trying. And Charles got a

1973
01:43:13,961 --> 01:43:18,961
Speaker 3: lot more chance of rehabilitation. But they're overcrowded. They're not

1974
01:43:19,041 --> 01:43:21,521
Speaker 3: doing a lot for drugs. They're turned a blind idem

1975
01:43:21,881 --> 01:43:26,161
Speaker 3: And if you've got a kid, he's never went on drugs,

1976
01:43:26,641 --> 01:43:29,281
Speaker 3: he goes in the jar, he's going to come out,

1977
01:43:29,961 --> 01:43:32,161
Speaker 3: he's going to be addicted probably, and that that's a

1978
01:43:32,201 --> 01:43:34,481
Speaker 3: bad that's the sad thing about it. Now. Yeah, so

1979
01:43:35,561 --> 01:43:38,121
Speaker 3: we need to spend money on rehabs, and we need

1980
01:43:38,201 --> 01:43:42,241
Speaker 3: to spend money on mentors. They're people like me, Ronnie

1981
01:43:42,241 --> 01:43:45,081
Speaker 3: issued and these people. We should be working with kids.

1982
01:43:45,401 --> 01:43:47,281
Speaker 3: We should be working with kids, but they won't do it.

1983
01:43:49,681 --> 01:43:50,881
Speaker 1: But I want to say thank you for coming in

1984
01:43:51,041 --> 01:43:54,561
Speaker 1: before we go. I just describe you in two words.

1985
01:43:55,321 --> 01:43:57,801
Speaker 3: Probably still a risk taker, always been a risk take.

1986
01:43:58,001 --> 01:43:59,961
Speaker 3: I think I would go out of trouble. I mean

1987
01:44:00,201 --> 01:44:02,521
Speaker 3: even when I'm driving, I'll take a risk and dive

1988
01:44:02,601 --> 01:44:12,721
Speaker 3: for the car. I'm lighty too, I'll got one. But no,

1989
01:44:12,961 --> 01:44:18,561
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding. Uh.

1990
01:44:19,161 --> 01:44:21,081
Speaker 1: But in fact, I want to say thank you John

1991
01:44:21,121 --> 01:44:25,561
Speaker 1: for coming on and your story is being unbelievable. I

1992
01:44:25,641 --> 01:44:27,041
Speaker 1: could sit here all day if I can listen to

1993
01:44:27,161 --> 01:44:30,041
Speaker 1: your stories. But yeah, I want to say.

1994
01:44:29,841 --> 01:44:32,801
Speaker 3: Thank you, Look, thank you for asking you know, and

1995
01:44:33,281 --> 01:44:37,041
Speaker 3: it's really nice to watch you the same. Yeah, you know.

1996
01:44:37,801 --> 01:44:39,761
Speaker 3: I can say this is going to be a good time.

1997
01:44:40,201 --> 01:44:41,401
Speaker 3: Premium U