WEBVTT - Investigation Update | 5 - Journalists on the case 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.440 It was diabolically clever. We're here twenty three years later 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.520 and we've got no idea what happened to Rachelle. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.080 We have a twenty three year old who eks the caryard. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.360 She's been murdered. Why would you jump to Barkis. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.200 Welcome to the fifth update episode of Dear Rochelle. You're 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.080 behind the scenes access to this live podcast investigation series. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.600 I'm your host, Ashley Hanson. In this bonus episode, we're 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:33.040 taking you behind the headlines and introducing some of the journalists. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.280 Who've been working on this case with me. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.200 Patrick Carline is a senior features writer for News Corp. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.559 And Charlotte carp Is a senior reporter. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.360 They're part of our core team investigating the unsolved murder 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.440 of Rachelle Charles. This is our chance to dive a 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.680 little deeper into the journalism behind the case. Welcome to 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.800 you both. I'll start with you Patrick. You've been to 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.840 some of these key locations. How do you compare the 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.480 Girois scene, which is the scene where Rachelle's body was found, 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.559 when you went there during the day as opposed to night. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.440 Yeah, look, that's a good question, ash I think I 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.600 was with you and Rees, our producer, when we got 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.600 there about two thirty am one night back in December, 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:16.640 and I sort of standing there for about half an 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.039 hour before you got there, and the place felt haunted. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.400 There was not a car that passed. And this is 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.040 the same time that Rachelle's body was found on fire 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.480 back in two thousand and one. Not a single car passed. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.240 I had the car headlights on. You could hear the 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.679 surf in the distance, and you can see the insects 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.760 of dancing in the car headlights. And it felt haunted, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.000 to be honest. Whereas during the day there's people around, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.080 there's a caravan park nearby. It's a pretty town, giao, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.160 it's a wonderful beach spot. But at two twenty in 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.320 the morning, standing there by yourself in the middle of nowhere, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.160 it really does feel cursed, to be honest, in the 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:58.800 context of Rochelle's case. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.880 And the darkness is just so memorable about how dark 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.760 it is there. And I guess we talk about this 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.720 all the time. Why that spot, Why did the killer 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.400 choose that spot to dispose of Rochelle's body. We're just 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.200 trying to piece together what happened to Rochelle and those 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:25.200 missing nine hours that we constantly talk about. What goes 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.239 into your mind when you think about that area. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.640 Look, it doesn't sort of make sense, does it. Look 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.160 I've been looking at this since August last year, and 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.440 that's one of the questions that keeps me awake at night, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:40.000 is why was she left there burning? I mean, it's 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.880 such a dreadful fate. It is just so off the chart. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.520 And look, we don't know anything about her last night hours, 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.639 and that keeps me awake as well. But why choose 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.600 the side of the road? Why put someone set someone 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.720 on fire? And there's all this scrub land and bush 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.000 where you could place a body that wouldn't be found 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.440 for months and months. You've got tens of kilometers of 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.200 bushland around you. But Rachelle is placed on the side 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.120 of the road and set on fire in a way 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.600 that she was going to be obviously found fairly readily. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.200 She's put on top of a concrete tank. Was he 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.200 planning to the killer, planning to open the tank and 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:24.079 put her in there and change his mind? It doesn't 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:25.720 make sense. None of it makes sense. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.480 It is a disturbing crime. Charlotte. What keeps you up 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.200 at night researching this case and working on it. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:33.480 Why did they choose her? 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:34.200 Why? 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:39.040 What happened in the car? Did she drive this person 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.560 down to GIRoA? Did was she driven? I mean, what 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.000 happened in the car? That's what I would love to know. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.200 Yeah, we all want to know that question. Or did 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.160 it happen in the car? Because as I've spoken to 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.400 Patrick a lot about as well, we don't even know 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:58.200 where she died, where this fatal encounter was exactly. It 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.440 could have been inside, could have been in a car, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.840 It could have been at her house, It could have 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.800 been at another location we don't know about. Because as 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.800 we always come back to those missing nine hours, what 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.880 about the Bargo hotel and her car being parked there 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.479 by somebody else? What have you thought is some of 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.640 the scenarios you've thought about as to when maybe that 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:24.520 car could have been planted there? 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.279 My impression is that it was probably planted there sometime 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.800 in the morning when her body was on fire down 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.600 near Diraua. That they've come back and they've planted her 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.800 car there, that's to me what makes sense. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.080 It does make a lot of sense. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.640 But the question I keep coming back to is then, 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.479 how did the killer get away? From that area. So 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.200 did they walk? Did they catch a taxi? Did somebody 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:56.840 pick them up? Was his car parked conveniently nearby? Was 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.680 this all part of the plan? What do you think, Patrick? 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.640 Look, I think there's a plan that we don't understand, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.800 and I mean there are so many elements to that plan. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:07.440 If you accept there was a plan, and I think 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.159 there was a plan, it was diabolically clever in the 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.880 sense that we're here twenty three years later and we've 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.800 got no idea what happened to Rochelle between five point 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.039 fifteen when she left work and I think she was 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.920 caught flicking a cigarette but out of her car window 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.480 as she's driving towards home and two twenty am. And 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.800 that drives me bonkers, to be honest, You and I 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.640 have talked about this dozens and dozens and dozens of times. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.719 How about do we think about this? How about do 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:41.440 you think about that? You know, I remember when I 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.480 started looking at this, the impression was that Michelle had 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.960 been to the Bargo Hotel and that was sort of 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.080 if you go back through the clippings from two thousand 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.080 and one, that was an accepted fact. And even that 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.279 to me doesn't sound right. She didn't go to the 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.279 Bargo Hotel as far as I can see. But there's 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.280 all these distrays actions as always red herrings sort of 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.719 through this entire story that goes to that nine hours, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:11.840 and we cannot actually decipher what happened. Even now we've 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:13.680 spent months and months of looking at this has been 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:18.040 police investigations and reviews and coronial inquests, and we're still 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.360 no closer that to actually having facts about those last 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.520 nine hours. And look, that's what I anguish about when 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.800 I think about Rochelle, is what the hell happened? We 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.080 don't even know how she died, We don't know where 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:34.159 she died. It beggars belief that this story about this 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.719 wonderful person who everybody loved was inexplicably killed. It beggars 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.640 belief that we don't know anything about her final out. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.000 Just defies belief, doesn't it. 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.360 And I know that that keeps me up at night 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.680 as well, thinking about not just what happened to her, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:53.280 but also that this person is still free, or the 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.520 offenders are still free. So that's a scary thought, and 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.200 you just think about what did his life go on 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:01.719 to be? 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.320 I know I've thought about that a lot. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.760 So let's talk about some of the points that you 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.080 just made their about the Bargo Hotel and those red 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:18.280 herrings in the beginning, the bikey's rumor that started very quickly, 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.320 and we've published a story which is about the manager 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:28.480 at Campbelltown Holden, who said that Kevin Carell, who was 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.080 Rochelle's boss at the time, was pedaling this story as 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.560 soon as the Monday, the public holiday of the June 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.080 Long weekend, when the family only was informed on the 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.720 Sunday that Rachelle's body had been found and they were 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.720 treating her death as a murder, and then on the Monday, 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.920 so soon after Kevin's pedaling this story that bikeys were involved. 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:49.960 What's your reaction to that, Charlotte. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.400 I think it's a very strange way to react to 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.160 that kind of thing. I mean, we have a twenty 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.280 three year old who exit a car yard, she's been murdered. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.720 Why would you jump to bike is It's just such 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.000 a strange conclusion to get to. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.680 And with almost no evidence. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.720 Really, I mean, she was friends with but it was 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.040 also a very small town and I would say a 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.120 lot of people knew a lot of people, So yeah, 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.360 it's very strange conclusion to come to you. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.360 That's one thing I'm really proud of. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.160 I guess that we've been able to dismantle that rumor, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.200 you know, we've been able to crush it because there 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.880 are so many people that testify that Rachelle wasn't involved. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.760 With bikeis what are your thoughts on that? Patrick? 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.280 Well, what struck meime? And looking at this when you 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.040 look at Sash, who was one of the bikes and 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.400 was heavily investigated, and he said to the investigators in 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.440 one of those very early interviews, stop you wasting your time. 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.360 It wasn't me, It's nothing to do with us. Go 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.040 and find who did this. That biking rumor took hold 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.760 and it distracted that initial investigation in a massive way, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.120 and it was a complete waste of time. It was 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.839 very unfair to the reputation of Rochelle. It sort of 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.120 suggested that she was somehow up to know good. Now 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.640 we know for a fact she was twenty three, she 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.320 was popular, she was on her way in life, she 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.280 hadn't quite worked out where she was going to go. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.560 She was a great human being. Even under all this scrutiny. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.480 The weather applied and the police applied. She was a 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.600 nice person. She had nothing to do with bike. She 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.640 was not she wasn't up to no good. She was 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.559 a good person. But this rumor, sort of this distraction 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.720 took Highwood in such a massive way and it distracted 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.199 the investigation for years and years. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.120 It is a complex case. There were multiple crime scenes. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.320 The Bargo Hotel which is where her car was staged 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.040 and parked by somebody else, that obviously became a crime scene. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:58.160 Her car was an exhibit. Then you have GIRoA, Then. 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.360 You have her workplace over Camden where she was last 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:07.079 seen alive leaving work. So so many key locations and 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.800 just on that, I know that Patrick, you visited a 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.319 lot of those spots with me along the way as 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.199 well and with tarm Or how does that play into 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.080 it because you went there to look into this alibi 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.680 of Kevin Stephen Carell, who was Rochelle's boss at the 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.720 time at Camden Holden. He of course has strenuously denied 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.560 any involvement in Rochelle's murder, and he willingly participated in 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:39.040 three records of interview with police and provided his DNA voluntarily, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:44.040 and the coroner made an open finding, so in terms 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.480 of Kevin's alibi, he says that he went to tarm 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.960 Or to get fish and chips. What do you make 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.280 of that point? In his alibi? 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.240 Kevin offered a very complicated alibi and basically had him 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:02.160 driving from Camden to Campbelltown to another shopping center, then 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.760 down to Picton and down to tarm Or and back 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.240 to Picton, then back to Campden. He talked about going 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.080 to tarm Or to get fish and chips. Now that 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.520 was striking and it struck the police officers at the 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.480 time because what his order he said he was he 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.840 remembered his order two weeks later. I think he gave 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.959 that alibi after the show was murdered, and he remembered 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.560 his order which involved I think about it, sav and 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.280 chips and a can of coke. And it was almost 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.920 the same order as he gave as an alibi to 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.920 a sexual assault allegation back in the early nineteen eighties. 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.360 Look what stocks struck me about his alibi? And you 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.760 look at the fish and chip shop. Why went the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.640 police going to the fish and ship shop? Sort of 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.760 immediately sort of saying do you remember Kevin, this man 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.040 being here on this night, at this time, and all 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.920 of that kind of evidence got lost because that grunt work, 0:11:56.040 --> 0:12:00.360 that slog work of police actually canvassing people and sort 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.199 of saying that he says he was here, then can 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.800 you prove is the CCTV? Can you remember him? A 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.920 lot of that work was went undone in those early 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.640 days and weeks, and I got lost. All that evidence 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.959 got lost, And here we are, twenty three years later, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.839 still looking at this alibi, which is very involved and 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:24.719 stead of saying, how come this can't be proven or disproven? 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.040 And I mean that drives me mad. I mean that's 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.440 critical to this whole story. Can that alibi be proven 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.640 or not? And it seems very unlikely that we can 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.960 sort of having some sort of breakthrough, which hopefully we 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.880 do actually get to the point of understanding where that 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.679 alibi may have been true or may not have been true. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.200 That's another thing that drives me mad as. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.720 We investigate Kevin Carrell and his past. One thing that 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:55.120 keeps popping up is mingles. Charlotte, You've been looking into this. 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.080 What is mingles? 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:04.680 Mingles was like a singles group. I guess, well, yeah, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.920 we'll call it a singles group that sort of ran 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.800 in like the early two thousands, and from what I gather, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.520 I mean, it was run by one person and she 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.680 just wanted people to have fun. She ran these huge events, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.560 usually at RSLs around Southwest Sydney, and so many people went. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.760 I mean there are pictures just with hundreds of people 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.000 and they look like they're having the best time. So 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.760 they were very popular events. Kevin, I mean, is still 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:43.000 very good friends with this woman. And by all accounts, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.480 I mean, he was very well liked among all the 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.960 people there. He was very charismatic, he was very friendly. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.240 But he was one of you know, hundreds of people 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.000 who were going to these events. And you know, I 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.640 mean I think that they were for people sort of 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.679 older than maybe thirty five forty, who might have had 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.240 young kids, they might have been nearly divorced, they might 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.240 be single, who wouldn't maybe have had an opportunity to 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:12.560 go out and have fun without that. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.280 So it was a networking group or social group that 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.360 was targeted at single people and connections around that. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:22.760 Is that fair to say? 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:28.800 Yeah, I would say a social group very much towards 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.360 single people, like people looking for people looking for love, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.160 love for fun, fun, Yeah, that's what i'd say. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.640 And some of the people that we've spoken to met 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.760 Kevin through mingles. He's so popular in that circle of 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.800 friends and those connections that he has and so many 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:54.000 loyal supporters, and then you look into other aspects of 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.680 his past, like previous relationships, for example, his ex wife. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.400 What did did you make of her interview? I'll start 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.160 with you Patrick, Elise. 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.000 Yeah, look, that was an incredible interview as well done 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.080 forgetting it. I heard somebody who was afraid. That was 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.120 the takeaway from me, somebody who to this day still 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:20.120 feels afraid of that aspect of her life. She talked 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.240 about a sort of jeculine hard character. If you're like 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:29.200 somebody who was very charismatic and very charming, especially at 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.160 the start of their relationship, and that's something that we've 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.240 heard again and again. At the start of relationships, this 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.240 man was a complete gentleman. He went out of his 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.920 way to impress his partner of the time. But as 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.160 the months went on and as the years went on, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.480 those partners would start seeing a very different side of Kevin, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.920 and that side terrified them. That's the common link. You 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.320 have all these women who actually feel terrified to this 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:04.600 day of Kevin, And you know, it's like they've got 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.600 somebody they're looking over the shoulders for the rest of 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.440 their lives. That is the common link, I think, but 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.760 relationships that started out very charming and very all encompassing 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.119 that went sour at some point. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.400 And just on that, Alise, along with so many other 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.800 brave women, have pushed through that fear to speak out. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.560 So that's very telling, do you think, Charlotte. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.840 A lot of people who have come forward are people 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.560 who have gone, oh, you know, I wasn't really sure 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.960 whether to say anything, and now I've and know I'm 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.640 going to. And of course, if they want their privacy respected, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.400 we respect that too, and they trust us to do that. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.520 You know, the fact that they're willing to come out 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:52.600 now after the podcast has launched and tell these deeply 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.560 personal stories and things, as Patrick said, that they're still 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.600 quite afraid of, I think, is that's really brave of 0:16:59.640 --> 0:16:59.960 them to. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:00.640 Just on that. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.400 We need to mention that Kevin Correll strenuously denies any 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.240 allegations of domestic abuse leveled against him by his ex 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.240 wife Elise in these investigations. We have an email address, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:18.200 It's dear Rochelle atnews dot com dot au and some days, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.320 my jaw drops. I don't know how you guys are feeling, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.119 but what do you feel about when you check that 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:26.400 email some days? 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.480 Yes, no, look, I look at it every day. I 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.960 look forward to looking at it each morning. We've had 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.840 dozens of people come through, and again there's a common thread. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.120 They want to help. They actually want to help, and 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.639 a lot of those emails begin with I don't know 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.760 if this is relevant, and then they tell a story 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.520 that relates to some encounter they had or some understanding 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.320 they had back from twenty years ago. And again, these 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.439 are people who just want to see justice done. That's 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.000 the driving force. And you know, you got some strange 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.480 ideas in there. At times. We've also got people who say, look, 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.919 I knew this person back then, and this person was 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.600 like this, and I just want to help. I just 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.560 want to give you something. I don't know if it 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.360 means anything. I want to give you something that goes 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:16.400 to making this getting justice done. And that's one impressive 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.720 mane And there's so many people every day. I look 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.560 forward to it. As I said, just looking at those 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:22.040 of emails. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.320 I love looking at the inbox. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.560 And as Patrick said, you know a lot of people 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.639 go oh, I don't know if this is important, and 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:33.879 usually those are the best ones, but even listeners sending 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.320 us questions that they have, you know, I mean, as journalists, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.360 it's part of our job to preempt what listeners will 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.600 want to know. We have to ask those questions, and 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.600 so getting people engaging with it, asking their own questions, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.040 it's not only super interesting from our perspective, but it's 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.119 really important to get that kind of feedback, I guess. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.000 And it's so great to know as well that the 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.840 interest from our listeners and people that read your stories, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.359 that they are coming forward and they want to help, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.680 as you say, and that's what it's going to take, 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.600 we believe to get this solved right. 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.040 Some of those tips that have come through have driven 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.440 what we have reported and how the podcast has gone. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.000 And I think somebody out there knows something that breaks 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.240 this open. All the police officers who have been part 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.639 of this, everyone who's been part of us is of 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.520 the belief that somebody or some people know things that 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.920 actually steer this story. And some of those people and 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.840 I'm sure it will be one of those. As Charlotte 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:42.720 was saying, I'm not sure if this will help, but 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.040 it will be one of those tips that really could 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.560 crack this wide open. I'm sure, and it's exciting. It's 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.119 great to see it happening in real time and to 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.080 see the possibility sort of emerge in front of you 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:56.840 each morning as you look at them. 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:58.200 Wouldn't that be incredible? 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:03.960 Given the injustice that Anne and Christie have been dealt 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.000 for so many years, which just coming up to twenty 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.199 four years is the anniversary of Rochelle's brutal murder, and 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.479 just to think what they've gone through over the years, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.960 what have you made of that, you know, going through 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.200 the first the initial investigation and then the inquest, and 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.199 then the police appeals that just fell on deaf ears, 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.719 and this campaign to increase the reward that for some reason, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.520 we're still it's still sitting there at two hundred thousand dollars, 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.359 which is not a huge amount of money to someone 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:44.080 who could potentially be risking relationships or risking their safety, 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.919 they might fear for their safety to come forward with information. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.240 So where do you sit with the reward and why 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.040 it hasn't been increased at all? Charlotte, I know you've 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.320 been strongly looking into that one too. 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.680 Yeah, I can't really understand why the reward hasn't been raised. 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.960 I mean, two hundred thousand dollars was a lot of 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:06.320 money back when Rochelle was murdered, but today it's not 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.440 even a house deposit in Sydney, to be honest, and 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.560 really the ones that work, the rewards that work are 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:14.560 about a million dollars. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.960 That is, you need someone. 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.000 To be able to give this information, uproot their lives 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.280 potentially and move somewhere else, and they need the funds 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.600 to do that. So it would be a tremendous incentive 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.320 if police raise the word to about a million dollars. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.000 I cannot imagine how taxing this has been for Rochelle's 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.639 family to go through this for so long. The emotional investment, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:43.800 the energy, the pain that they go through, it's unimaginable. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.840 In the course of our jobs, we deal with a 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.119 lot of victims of crime, you know, whether it's in 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:52.199 court cases or the Royal Commission into Sexual Abuse or whatever. 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.320 Most of those people who are victims are scarred by 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.320 what has happened to them. Very understandably. They're bitter their already, 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.720 they're obsessed in ways that are perfectly relatable, and that's 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.680 what struck me about christian Ann when I first met them. 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:13.520 They are hurt for life by what happened to Rochelle, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.960 but it hasn't shaped them in that sort of ugly 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:21.440 way that victims of crime are shaped. They laugh, they joke, 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.240 They have fond memories of Rochelle, and all the way 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:30.200 through Graham's childs did most of the heavy lifting with 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.719 the police until he passed away, and was always constructive. 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.679 He didn't get angry, he didn't throw tantrums. He just 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.040 wanted justice. And it was this very sort of discipline, 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:47.120 sort of need for justice that really got inherited by 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.720 Christie in the same way. She wants this to happen. 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.600 She needs for this to happen, but she doesn't get 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.560 angry with the police. She hasn't shouted from the rooftops. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.919 She hasn't sort of, you know, demanded things must happen 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.840