1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: It was diabolically clever. We're here twenty three years later 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: and we've got no idea what happened to Rachelle. 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: We have a twenty three year old who eks the caryard. 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: She's been murdered. Why would you jump to Barkis. 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 3: Welcome to the fifth update episode of Dear Rochelle. You're 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 3: behind the scenes access to this live podcast investigation series. 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Ashley Hanson. In this bonus episode, we're 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 3: taking you behind the headlines and introducing some of the journalists. 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 4: Who've been working on this case with me. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 3: Patrick Carline is a senior features writer for News Corp. 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 4: And Charlotte carp Is a senior reporter. 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: They're part of our core team investigating the unsolved murder 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 3: of Rachelle Charles. This is our chance to dive a 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 3: little deeper into the journalism behind the case. Welcome to 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: you both. I'll start with you Patrick. You've been to 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: some of these key locations. How do you compare the 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 3: Girois scene, which is the scene where Rachelle's body was found, 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 3: when you went there during the day as opposed to night. 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that's a good question, ash I think I 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: was with you and Rees, our producer, when we got 21 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: there about two thirty am one night back in December, 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: and I sort of standing there for about half an 23 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: hour before you got there, and the place felt haunted. 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: There was not a car that passed. And this is 25 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: the same time that Rachelle's body was found on fire 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one. Not a single car passed. 27 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: I had the car headlights on. You could hear the 28 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: surf in the distance, and you can see the insects 29 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: of dancing in the car headlights. And it felt haunted, 30 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: to be honest. Whereas during the day there's people around, 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: there's a caravan park nearby. It's a pretty town, giao, 32 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: it's a wonderful beach spot. But at two twenty in 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: the morning, standing there by yourself in the middle of nowhere, 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: it really does feel cursed, to be honest, in the 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: context of Rochelle's case. 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 3: And the darkness is just so memorable about how dark 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: it is there. And I guess we talk about this 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: all the time. Why that spot, Why did the killer 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: choose that spot to dispose of Rochelle's body. We're just 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: trying to piece together what happened to Rochelle and those 41 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: missing nine hours that we constantly talk about. What goes 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 3: into your mind when you think about that area. 43 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: Look, it doesn't sort of make sense, does it. Look 44 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: I've been looking at this since August last year, and 45 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: that's one of the questions that keeps me awake at night, 46 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: is why was she left there burning? I mean, it's 47 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: such a dreadful fate. It is just so off the chart. 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: And look, we don't know anything about her last night hours, 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: and that keeps me awake as well. But why choose 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: the side of the road? Why put someone set someone 51 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: on fire? And there's all this scrub land and bush 52 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: where you could place a body that wouldn't be found 53 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: for months and months. You've got tens of kilometers of 54 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: bushland around you. But Rachelle is placed on the side 55 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: of the road and set on fire in a way 56 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: that she was going to be obviously found fairly readily. 57 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: She's put on top of a concrete tank. Was he 58 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: planning to the killer, planning to open the tank and 59 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: put her in there and change his mind? It doesn't 60 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: make sense. None of it makes sense. 61 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 4: It is a disturbing crime. Charlotte. What keeps you up 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 4: at night researching this case and working on it. 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: Why did they choose her? 64 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: Why? 65 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: What happened in the car? Did she drive this person 66 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: down to GIRoA? Did was she driven? I mean, what 67 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: happened in the car? That's what I would love to know. 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, we all want to know that question. Or did 69 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: it happen in the car? Because as I've spoken to 70 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: Patrick a lot about as well, we don't even know 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: where she died, where this fatal encounter was exactly. It 72 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: could have been inside, could have been in a car, 73 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: It could have been at her house, It could have 74 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: been at another location we don't know about. Because as 75 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: we always come back to those missing nine hours, what 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: about the Bargo hotel and her car being parked there 77 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 3: by somebody else? What have you thought is some of 78 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: the scenarios you've thought about as to when maybe that 79 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: car could have been planted there? 80 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: My impression is that it was probably planted there sometime 81 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: in the morning when her body was on fire down 82 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: near Diraua. That they've come back and they've planted her 83 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: car there, that's to me what makes sense. 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: It does make a lot of sense. 85 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: But the question I keep coming back to is then, 86 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 3: how did the killer get away? From that area. So 87 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: did they walk? Did they catch a taxi? Did somebody 88 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 3: pick them up? Was his car parked conveniently nearby? Was 89 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: this all part of the plan? What do you think, Patrick? 90 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Look, I think there's a plan that we don't understand, 91 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: and I mean there are so many elements to that plan. 92 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: If you accept there was a plan, and I think 93 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: there was a plan, it was diabolically clever in the 94 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: sense that we're here twenty three years later and we've 95 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: got no idea what happened to Rochelle between five point 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: fifteen when she left work and I think she was 97 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: caught flicking a cigarette but out of her car window 98 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: as she's driving towards home and two twenty am. And 99 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: that drives me bonkers, to be honest, You and I 100 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: have talked about this dozens and dozens and dozens of times. 101 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: How about do we think about this? How about do 102 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: you think about that? You know, I remember when I 103 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: started looking at this, the impression was that Michelle had 104 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: been to the Bargo Hotel and that was sort of 105 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: if you go back through the clippings from two thousand 106 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: and one, that was an accepted fact. And even that 107 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: to me doesn't sound right. She didn't go to the 108 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: Bargo Hotel as far as I can see. But there's 109 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: all these distrays actions as always red herrings sort of 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: through this entire story that goes to that nine hours, 111 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: and we cannot actually decipher what happened. Even now we've 112 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: spent months and months of looking at this has been 113 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: police investigations and reviews and coronial inquests, and we're still 114 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: no closer that to actually having facts about those last 115 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: nine hours. And look, that's what I anguish about when 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: I think about Rochelle, is what the hell happened? We 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: don't even know how she died, We don't know where 118 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: she died. It beggars belief that this story about this 119 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: wonderful person who everybody loved was inexplicably killed. It beggars 120 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: belief that we don't know anything about her final out. 121 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 4: Just defies belief, doesn't it. 122 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: And I know that that keeps me up at night 123 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: as well, thinking about not just what happened to her, 124 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 3: but also that this person is still free, or the 125 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: offenders are still free. So that's a scary thought, and 126 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: you just think about what did his life go on 127 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: to be? 128 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 4: I know I've thought about that a lot. 129 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: So let's talk about some of the points that you 130 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: just made their about the Bargo Hotel and those red 131 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: herrings in the beginning, the bikey's rumor that started very quickly, 132 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: and we've published a story which is about the manager 133 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: at Campbelltown Holden, who said that Kevin Carell, who was 134 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: Rochelle's boss at the time, was pedaling this story as 135 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: soon as the Monday, the public holiday of the June 136 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: Long weekend, when the family only was informed on the 137 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: Sunday that Rachelle's body had been found and they were 138 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: treating her death as a murder, and then on the Monday, 139 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: so soon after Kevin's pedaling this story that bikeys were involved. 140 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 4: What's your reaction to that, Charlotte. 141 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: I think it's a very strange way to react to 142 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. I mean, we have a twenty 143 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: three year old who exit a car yard, she's been murdered. 144 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: Why would you jump to bike is It's just such 145 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: a strange conclusion to get to. 146 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: And with almost no evidence. 147 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: Really, I mean, she was friends with but it was 148 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: also a very small town and I would say a 149 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: lot of people knew a lot of people, So yeah, 150 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: it's very strange conclusion to come to you. 151 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 4: That's one thing I'm really proud of. 152 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: I guess that we've been able to dismantle that rumor, 153 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: you know, we've been able to crush it because there 154 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: are so many people that testify that Rachelle wasn't involved. 155 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: With bikeis what are your thoughts on that? Patrick? 156 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: Well, what struck meime? And looking at this when you 157 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: look at Sash, who was one of the bikes and 158 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: was heavily investigated, and he said to the investigators in 159 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: one of those very early interviews, stop you wasting your time. 160 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't me, It's nothing to do with us. Go 161 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: and find who did this. That biking rumor took hold 162 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: and it distracted that initial investigation in a massive way, 163 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: and it was a complete waste of time. It was 164 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: very unfair to the reputation of Rochelle. It sort of 165 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: suggested that she was somehow up to know good. Now 166 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: we know for a fact she was twenty three, she 167 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: was popular, she was on her way in life, she 168 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: hadn't quite worked out where she was going to go. 169 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: She was a great human being. Even under all this scrutiny. 170 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: The weather applied and the police applied. She was a 171 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: nice person. She had nothing to do with bike. She 172 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: was not she wasn't up to no good. She was 173 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: a good person. But this rumor, sort of this distraction 174 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: took Highwood in such a massive way and it distracted 175 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: the investigation for years and years. 176 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 3: It is a complex case. There were multiple crime scenes. 177 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 3: The Bargo Hotel which is where her car was staged 178 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: and parked by somebody else, that obviously became a crime scene. 179 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 4: Her car was an exhibit. Then you have GIRoA, Then. 180 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: You have her workplace over Camden where she was last 181 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 3: seen alive leaving work. So so many key locations and 182 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: just on that, I know that Patrick, you visited a 183 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 3: lot of those spots with me along the way as 184 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 3: well and with tarm Or how does that play into 185 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: it because you went there to look into this alibi 186 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 3: of Kevin Stephen Carell, who was Rochelle's boss at the 187 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: time at Camden Holden. He of course has strenuously denied 188 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 3: any involvement in Rochelle's murder, and he willingly participated in 189 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 3: three records of interview with police and provided his DNA voluntarily, 190 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: and the coroner made an open finding, so in terms 191 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: of Kevin's alibi, he says that he went to tarm 192 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: Or to get fish and chips. What do you make 193 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: of that point? In his alibi? 194 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: Kevin offered a very complicated alibi and basically had him 195 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: driving from Camden to Campbelltown to another shopping center, then 196 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: down to Picton and down to tarm Or and back 197 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: to Picton, then back to Campden. He talked about going 198 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: to tarm Or to get fish and chips. Now that 199 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: was striking and it struck the police officers at the 200 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: time because what his order he said he was he 201 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: remembered his order two weeks later. I think he gave 202 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: that alibi after the show was murdered, and he remembered 203 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: his order which involved I think about it, sav and 204 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: chips and a can of coke. And it was almost 205 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: the same order as he gave as an alibi to 206 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: a sexual assault allegation back in the early nineteen eighties. 207 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Look what stocks struck me about his alibi? And you 208 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: look at the fish and chip shop. Why went the 209 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: police going to the fish and ship shop? Sort of 210 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: immediately sort of saying do you remember Kevin, this man 211 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: being here on this night, at this time, and all 212 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: of that kind of evidence got lost because that grunt work, 213 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: that slog work of police actually canvassing people and sort 214 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: of saying that he says he was here, then can 215 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: you prove is the CCTV? Can you remember him? A 216 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: lot of that work was went undone in those early 217 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: days and weeks, and I got lost. All that evidence 218 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: got lost, And here we are, twenty three years later, 219 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: still looking at this alibi, which is very involved and 220 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: stead of saying, how come this can't be proven or disproven? 221 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: And I mean that drives me mad. I mean that's 222 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: critical to this whole story. Can that alibi be proven 223 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: or not? And it seems very unlikely that we can 224 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: sort of having some sort of breakthrough, which hopefully we 225 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: do actually get to the point of understanding where that 226 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: alibi may have been true or may not have been true. 227 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: That's another thing that drives me mad as. 228 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: We investigate Kevin Carrell and his past. One thing that 229 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: keeps popping up is mingles. Charlotte, You've been looking into this. 230 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 3: What is mingles? 231 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 2: Mingles was like a singles group. I guess, well, yeah, 232 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: we'll call it a singles group that sort of ran 233 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: in like the early two thousands, and from what I gather, 234 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: I mean, it was run by one person and she 235 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 2: just wanted people to have fun. She ran these huge events, 236 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 2: usually at RSLs around Southwest Sydney, and so many people went. 237 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: I mean there are pictures just with hundreds of people 238 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: and they look like they're having the best time. So 239 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: they were very popular events. Kevin, I mean, is still 240 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: very good friends with this woman. And by all accounts, 241 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: I mean, he was very well liked among all the 242 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: people there. He was very charismatic, he was very friendly. 243 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: But he was one of you know, hundreds of people 244 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: who were going to these events. And you know, I 245 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: mean I think that they were for people sort of 246 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 2: older than maybe thirty five forty, who might have had 247 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: young kids, they might have been nearly divorced, they might 248 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: be single, who wouldn't maybe have had an opportunity to 249 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: go out and have fun without that. 250 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 3: So it was a networking group or social group that 251 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 3: was targeted at single people and connections around that. 252 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 4: Is that fair to say? 253 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say a social group very much towards 254 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: single people, like people looking for people looking for love, 255 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: love for fun, fun, Yeah, that's what i'd say. 256 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 3: And some of the people that we've spoken to met 257 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: Kevin through mingles. He's so popular in that circle of 258 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 3: friends and those connections that he has and so many 259 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: loyal supporters, and then you look into other aspects of 260 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: his past, like previous relationships, for example, his ex wife. 261 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 3: What did did you make of her interview? I'll start 262 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: with you Patrick, Elise. 263 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that was an incredible interview as well done 264 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: forgetting it. I heard somebody who was afraid. That was 265 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: the takeaway from me, somebody who to this day still 266 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: feels afraid of that aspect of her life. She talked 267 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: about a sort of jeculine hard character. If you're like 268 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: somebody who was very charismatic and very charming, especially at 269 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: the start of their relationship, and that's something that we've 270 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: heard again and again. At the start of relationships, this 271 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: man was a complete gentleman. He went out of his 272 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: way to impress his partner of the time. But as 273 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: the months went on and as the years went on, 274 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: those partners would start seeing a very different side of Kevin, 275 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: and that side terrified them. That's the common link. You 276 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: have all these women who actually feel terrified to this 277 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: day of Kevin, And you know, it's like they've got 278 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: somebody they're looking over the shoulders for the rest of 279 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: their lives. That is the common link, I think, but 280 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: relationships that started out very charming and very all encompassing 281 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,119 Speaker 1: that went sour at some point. 282 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: And just on that, Alise, along with so many other 283 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 3: brave women, have pushed through that fear to speak out. 284 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 4: So that's very telling, do you think, Charlotte. 285 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: A lot of people who have come forward are people 286 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: who have gone, oh, you know, I wasn't really sure 287 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: whether to say anything, and now I've and know I'm 288 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: going to. And of course, if they want their privacy respected, 289 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: we respect that too, and they trust us to do that. 290 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: You know, the fact that they're willing to come out 291 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: now after the podcast has launched and tell these deeply 292 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: personal stories and things, as Patrick said, that they're still 293 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: quite afraid of, I think, is that's really brave of 294 00:16:59,640 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: them to. 295 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: Just on that. 296 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 3: We need to mention that Kevin Correll strenuously denies any 297 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: allegations of domestic abuse leveled against him by his ex 298 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: wife Elise in these investigations. We have an email address, 299 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 3: It's dear Rochelle atnews dot com dot au and some days, 300 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 3: my jaw drops. I don't know how you guys are feeling, 301 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 3: but what do you feel about when you check that 302 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 3: email some days? 303 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: Yes, no, look, I look at it every day. I 304 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: look forward to looking at it each morning. We've had 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: dozens of people come through, and again there's a common thread. 306 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: They want to help. They actually want to help, and 307 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: a lot of those emails begin with I don't know 308 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: if this is relevant, and then they tell a story 309 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: that relates to some encounter they had or some understanding 310 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: they had back from twenty years ago. And again, these 311 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: are people who just want to see justice done. That's 312 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: the driving force. And you know, you got some strange 313 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: ideas in there. At times. We've also got people who say, look, 314 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: I knew this person back then, and this person was 315 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: like this, and I just want to help. I just 316 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: want to give you something. I don't know if it 317 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: means anything. I want to give you something that goes 318 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: to making this getting justice done. And that's one impressive 319 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: mane And there's so many people every day. I look 320 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: forward to it. As I said, just looking at those 321 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: of emails. 322 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: I love looking at the inbox. 323 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: And as Patrick said, you know a lot of people 324 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 2: go oh, I don't know if this is important, and 325 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: usually those are the best ones, but even listeners sending 326 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: us questions that they have, you know, I mean, as journalists, 327 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: it's part of our job to preempt what listeners will 328 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: want to know. We have to ask those questions, and 329 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: so getting people engaging with it, asking their own questions, 330 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: it's not only super interesting from our perspective, but it's 331 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: really important to get that kind of feedback, I guess. 332 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: And it's so great to know as well that the 333 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: interest from our listeners and people that read your stories, 334 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 3: that they are coming forward and they want to help, 335 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: as you say, and that's what it's going to take, 336 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 3: we believe to get this solved right. 337 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Some of those tips that have come through have driven 338 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: what we have reported and how the podcast has gone. 339 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: And I think somebody out there knows something that breaks 340 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: this open. All the police officers who have been part 341 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: of this, everyone who's been part of us is of 342 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: the belief that somebody or some people know things that 343 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: actually steer this story. And some of those people and 344 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure it will be one of those. As Charlotte 345 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: was saying, I'm not sure if this will help, but 346 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: it will be one of those tips that really could 347 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: crack this wide open. I'm sure, and it's exciting. It's 348 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: great to see it happening in real time and to 349 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: see the possibility sort of emerge in front of you 350 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: each morning as you look at them. 351 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 4: Wouldn't that be incredible? 352 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: Given the injustice that Anne and Christie have been dealt 353 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: for so many years, which just coming up to twenty 354 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 3: four years is the anniversary of Rochelle's brutal murder, and 355 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 3: just to think what they've gone through over the years, 356 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: what have you made of that, you know, going through 357 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 3: the first the initial investigation and then the inquest, and 358 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 3: then the police appeals that just fell on deaf ears, 359 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 3: and this campaign to increase the reward that for some reason, 360 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 3: we're still it's still sitting there at two hundred thousand dollars, 361 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: which is not a huge amount of money to someone 362 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: who could potentially be risking relationships or risking their safety, 363 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: they might fear for their safety to come forward with information. 364 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: So where do you sit with the reward and why 365 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 3: it hasn't been increased at all? Charlotte, I know you've 366 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 3: been strongly looking into that one too. 367 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't really understand why the reward hasn't been raised. 368 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: I mean, two hundred thousand dollars was a lot of 369 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: money back when Rochelle was murdered, but today it's not 370 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 2: even a house deposit in Sydney, to be honest, and 371 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: really the ones that work, the rewards that work are 372 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 2: about a million dollars. 373 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 4: That is, you need someone. 374 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: To be able to give this information, uproot their lives 375 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: potentially and move somewhere else, and they need the funds 376 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: to do that. So it would be a tremendous incentive 377 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: if police raise the word to about a million dollars. 378 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: I cannot imagine how taxing this has been for Rochelle's 379 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: family to go through this for so long. The emotional investment, 380 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: the energy, the pain that they go through, it's unimaginable. 381 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: In the course of our jobs, we deal with a 382 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: lot of victims of crime, you know, whether it's in 383 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: court cases or the Royal Commission into Sexual Abuse or whatever. 384 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: Most of those people who are victims are scarred by 385 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: what has happened to them. Very understandably. They're bitter their already, 386 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: they're obsessed in ways that are perfectly relatable, and that's 387 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: what struck me about christian Ann when I first met them. 388 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: They are hurt for life by what happened to Rochelle, 389 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: but it hasn't shaped them in that sort of ugly 390 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: way that victims of crime are shaped. They laugh, they joke, 391 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: They have fond memories of Rochelle, and all the way 392 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: through Graham's childs did most of the heavy lifting with 393 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: the police until he passed away, and was always constructive. 394 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: He didn't get angry, he didn't throw tantrums. He just 395 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: wanted justice. And it was this very sort of discipline, 396 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: sort of need for justice that really got inherited by 397 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: Christie in the same way. She wants this to happen. 398 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: She needs for this to happen, but she doesn't get 399 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: angry with the police. She hasn't shouted from the rooftops. 400 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: She hasn't sort of, you know, demanded things must happen 401 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: in what it's all been, sort of can you please 402 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: help us? We need to find an answer here. And 403 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: I admire them. They are outstanding human beings because of 404 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: the way they have handled such a long time this 405 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: missing part of their life. It was stolen from them. 406 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: They just want to understand why, and they do it 407 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: in the most articulate and in a warm sort of way. 408 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: They are outstanding in that sense. 409 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: They're just remarkably dignified in their campaign for justice, and 410 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 3: we all as a team, and it's a huge team, 411 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 3: are fighting for that too. So everyone's contribution to this 412 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 3: project is very greatly appreciated by myself, but mostly Christian 413 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 3: and Teamshell, which is growing by the day, which is fantastic. 414 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 4: Well, thank you both for. 415 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 3: Joining me today on this special bonus episode of Dear 416 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 3: Rochelle Pleasure Rash. 417 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: Thank you. 418 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 3: New episodes of De Rochelle drop on Fridays. Visit deroshelle 419 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 3: dot com doau for more and if you have any 420 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: information you want to share with me Ashley Hanson, you 421 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 3: can do so confidentially. Please send an email to Deroshelle 422 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 3: at news dot com, doa you or you can follow 423 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 3: the Deershelle podcast official discussion group on Facebook.