Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook. Good afternoon, Good afternoon. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: You Project. Welcome to the show that you work on
Speaker 1: all the time. How are you?
Speaker 2: What a pleasure, What a pleasure to be here. I'm
Speaker 2: really good today because have you seen have you looked
Speaker 2: out the window?
Speaker 1: I just went for a walk and I had to
Speaker 1: wear a baseball cap, which is first time I've broken
Speaker 1: out the baseball cap since last summer. I do look
Speaker 1: like a bit of an old fucking rickety baseballer. And
Speaker 1: it was beautiful. I even wore my black T shirt
Speaker 1: out had got disposed of the flannel and got a
Speaker 1: little bit of color on their arms. Beautiful.
Speaker 2: It is medicine. It is just medicine for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, how I mean, it's not funny, but
Speaker 1: it is true. What an impact. Just when we talk
Speaker 1: about how your environment affects you, situation, circumstance, nature, even
Speaker 1: the office that you work in, the people that you're around.
Speaker 1: But walking out, i'd looked before. When I walked out,
Speaker 1: it was twenty one degrees and it was like, so
Speaker 1: it wasn't hot, but it was beautiful, wasn't cold, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is just it's just that put
Speaker 1: me in a better biochemical state, just going and doing
Speaker 1: the walk I always do, but in a much kind
Speaker 1: of a different vibe to the last four months. It's
Speaker 1: very nice. I came home with a coffee and very
Speaker 1: happy me too.
Speaker 2: I took the dog for an early walk. I went,
Speaker 2: I had to go get new tires on my car.
Speaker 2: I got to walk to a cafe, sit and do
Speaker 2: some work. What a day?
Speaker 1: How much did you ties costure? I know that's not
Speaker 1: a very good podcast question, but fuck it, I'm just in.
Speaker 1: Can I guess? Can I guess?
Speaker 2: Go on?
Speaker 1: How many ties did you get?
Speaker 2: Four?
Speaker 1: And can we tell everybody what kind of car you got?
Speaker 1: Just so they know that of a toy to chr Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go, so you got four all
Speaker 1: brand new fit.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, and a wheel alignment and.
Speaker 1: A wheel alignment? Where did you get it done at?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Do we not want to say? It doesn't matter to right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess nine hundred and fifty dollars.
Speaker 2: No, you've you've failed?
Speaker 1: What how much?
Speaker 2: Twelve hundred and seventy nine?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well they're not giving those bad boys away, are they?
Speaker 2: Sure not?
Speaker 1: That's three hundred and something. Did they do a deal
Speaker 1: for you? Because they're always doing a deal that's not really.
Speaker 2: I've got some good Perrelli tires they were they were
Speaker 2: on specially that little deal. I get to go back
Speaker 2: in another three months for a free check AUP on
Speaker 2: the wheel alignment. Good lads, actually really really happy with them.
Speaker 2: They were really nice.
Speaker 1: Well shout out to them. How good is it when
Speaker 1: you get like a pretty good product and you get
Speaker 1: really good customer.
Speaker 2: Service, Especially when you're a chick and you're dealing with
Speaker 2: car stuff, Like when you've got to ring up and
Speaker 2: go I need new tires on my cap and I
Speaker 2: don't know anything about tires, and you've got to trust
Speaker 2: that this bloke on the other end of the phone
Speaker 2: is going to tell you actually what you need and
Speaker 2: give you a good price.
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like saying now, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like saying I don't know anything about tires is true,
Speaker 1: but it also is it a bad idea to say that?
Speaker 1: Because you say that, but also say please don't rip
Speaker 1: me off. Please don't rip me off, because I don't
Speaker 1: want to have to come back. Also, I'm a lethal weapon.
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to come back and punch
Speaker 1: you in the face. You could say something like that,
Speaker 1: be a bit funny.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true, that is funny. I just liked
Speaker 2: they had a really trustworthy tone energy, you know you
Speaker 2: just yeah energy they did. I just felt I felt good. Thanks.
Speaker 2: Bob Jane should sponsor the podcast, by the.
Speaker 1: Way, Yeah, bloody Bob Jane. By the way, where I'm
Speaker 1: not sponsored by them, but if you feel like it,
Speaker 1: just yell out, well, good, I'm glad you've got new ties.
Speaker 1: We need you safe on the road. We don't want
Speaker 1: you sliding off into anything. It's Monday. It's Monday, the
Speaker 1: twenty ninth of the ninth, two thousand and twenty five,
Speaker 1: and it's a new week, and it's my birthday yesterday,
Speaker 1: and I kept that low key, super low key and
Speaker 1: just how I like it. It took all my birthday
Speaker 1: stuff off the interwebs a few years ago, so to
Speaker 1: my knowledge, it doesn't say my day to birth anywhere,
Speaker 1: and I kind of like that. I didn't see anyone
Speaker 1: until later in the day at all. Just went for
Speaker 1: a big, big walk along the beach, nearly ten k
Speaker 1: straight from my joint down to the beach, then down
Speaker 1: to way past Sandy and weave back around through suburbia
Speaker 1: like a fucking loser with my headphones on, just singing
Speaker 1: a happy birthday to me, you sad old count.
Speaker 2: I was singing that, and now on to my message.
Speaker 2: That was rude. I waited all day for a response
Speaker 2: to that message. Didn't come through it.
Speaker 1: Or didn't you? You send me something early and I
Speaker 1: didn't get it till lout, But I did respond to
Speaker 1: other stuff, didn't I didn't I respond.
Speaker 2: To that sadly. It's not really dead. But I'm not
Speaker 2: going to do Melissa. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna call.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to call anyone and check. But if
Speaker 2: you're alive. I did keep an eye on socials to
Speaker 2: make sure you'd responded to things online, just in cass.
Speaker 1: Melissa does think if she rings me and I don't
Speaker 1: call back within half an hour, it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: he's dead. He's absolutely dead. He's died.
Speaker 2: Your phone wasn't on or you were on it, one
Speaker 2: of the two. And I was like that Craig's phone
Speaker 2: always rings. Yeah, something's wrong.
Speaker 1: And also if I'm going anywhere, that's more than like
Speaker 1: five or ten kilometers on the motorbike. Yeah, she always
Speaker 1: she's like thinks she's not a fan of motorbikes. And
Speaker 1: for sure, if I haven't, if I haven't picked up
Speaker 1: by the second ring, I'm dead. Well.
Speaker 2: There was the strip of good value for money though
Speaker 2: there stripper stripper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was great. I wish he maybe had
Speaker 1: have shaved up a little bit and kept his fucking
Speaker 1: board shorts on, but look, he was good. He was
Speaker 1: a nice guy. We spooned on the couch for a while,
Speaker 1: we watched we watched a rom com and he left
Speaker 1: about lunchtime and kissed me on the cheek, tapped me
Speaker 1: on the bottom and yeah he was great. So thanks
Speaker 1: for that. Photos coming soon.
Speaker 2: Don't sound of buy you anything.
Speaker 1: What are we talking about. We're not talking about birthdays
Speaker 1: and fucking car tires and people like Come on, get
Speaker 1: to the self development, personal development, fucking live our best life.
Speaker 1: Come on, let's get to that. We don't need your
Speaker 1: personal bullshit, you too, Let's just.
Speaker 2: Rummage around in that magnificent brain of yours. That's just
Speaker 2: getting smarter and more efficient and more inspiring every day.
Speaker 1: I wish that were the case, but that I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what. It's my It's better than it was a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago when I was in a Cerea,
Speaker 1: I was backstroking in fucking pea soup. That was my
Speaker 1: mind when I thought I was going insane and I
Speaker 1: had an infection I didn't know about, and my IQ
Speaker 1: plummeted to seven and I had to help get people
Speaker 1: to help me do up my shoes. I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 1: what is going on?
Speaker 2: SA?
Speaker 1: Well, that's a bad that's a bad feeling when you
Speaker 1: feel like your brain's starting to not work.
Speaker 2: You're still eighty percent smarter than me, So that's that's
Speaker 2: terrifying to.
Speaker 1: Know again again. Intelligences, context, situation and task dependent. Some rooms,
Speaker 1: I'm smarter than you, some rooms you're smarter than me.
Speaker 1: Will leave it at that.
Speaker 2: Hey, I wanted to ask you about the stuff you
Speaker 2: know and the stuff you teach. I was thinking about it,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking, do you, or have you, across
Speaker 2: your life learned things to teach them or taught them
Speaker 2: so you can learn them?
Speaker 1: Oh? Wow, taught them? I mean I think sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: read something that I this is a good question or
Speaker 1: this is a good thing to think about for everyone.
Speaker 1: I think not just me, but so you learn things.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like sometimes I'll learn or sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: know something inherently, Like I could tell you that it's
Speaker 1: important to understand how other people think, right, and you
Speaker 1: know that, like you inherently and intuitively know that if
Speaker 1: I tell you that, especially now that you've heard me
Speaker 1: so so often, But you don't go, oh, fuck, I
Speaker 1: never thought about that. It's something that we realize, well,
Speaker 1: if you can understand others, you can connect with others.
Speaker 1: And then but then one day you learn, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a name for that, understanding how other people think. There's
Speaker 1: a name for that. That's actually a construct in psychology
Speaker 1: psychological literature, and it's called theory of mind, you know.
Speaker 1: And then you go oh, and then you dig into that,
Speaker 1: and then you read about how that works and what's
Speaker 1: that about, and what are all the variables that impact
Speaker 1: your ability to understand how people think? You know, and
Speaker 1: there's like false consensus effect where you people just assume
Speaker 1: that other people think like them, and there's a name
Speaker 1: for that. And you know, there's another thing called psycho
Speaker 1: neuroimmunology that we spoke about the other day, which means
Speaker 1: that what's going on in your head, and your emotions
Speaker 1: affects your immune systems. So there's all these things that
Speaker 1: we either kind of know or inherently know, and then
Speaker 1: we find out later on, oh, this is actually a
Speaker 1: scientific thing, but you knew it intuitively, right. And then
Speaker 1: sometimes when I learn, oh, that's actually called this like
Speaker 1: this thing that I inherently knew or thought I knew
Speaker 1: one it's real, and two there's been research on it,
Speaker 1: and three this is what it's called in scientifical or
Speaker 1: psychological literature. So then I'll go I've learned a thing,
Speaker 1: I've learned a name, I've learned, and I've expanded my
Speaker 1: knowledge because I did a bit of research into that
Speaker 1: initial thing. So there's there's that kind of learning which
Speaker 1: I share, and then there's I guess the best way
Speaker 1: is to explain experiential learning or experienceential knowledge is for
Speaker 1: me being like when I talk about, say obesity to people,
Speaker 1: or I talk about health, or I talk about being
Speaker 1: out of shape, or I talk about the relationship between overweight,
Speaker 1: being overweight, being obese, and the potential psychological, physiological, and
Speaker 1: health variables around that state of overweight. Then I go
Speaker 1: by the way I've had weight issues for about a
Speaker 1: third of my life. And you know, I talk about
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So when I talk about childhood obesity,
Speaker 1: I'm talking experientially. When I talk about being a teenager
Speaker 1: that was morebidly obese and all of that. I can
Speaker 1: share some of the stuff around the sociology and psychology
Speaker 1: and physiology and practicality of it, But more than anything,
Speaker 1: I'm just speaking as a kid, as a one time
Speaker 1: fat kid who dealt with all the practical and interpersonal
Speaker 1: challenges of that. So I'm not really speaking about research
Speaker 1: that I read about childhood obesity. So I think for
Speaker 1: me and and not just for me, but I think
Speaker 1: like you also do this. I think the really good
Speaker 1: teachers or coaches are people who can combine acquired knowledge
Speaker 1: through research and study and reading and listening. You know,
Speaker 1: where now we've oh, I learned something. I learned about
Speaker 1: this thing and I know its name, and I know how.
Speaker 1: There's that kind of acquired knowledge, and then there's the
Speaker 1: you know knowledge that you gain it the cold face,
Speaker 1: you know, like the doing, the showing up and the
Speaker 1: doing and the work. It's like, how much do you
Speaker 1: know about producing and uploading and figuring out podcasting? What
Speaker 1: will work, what won't, how close to be on the mic,
Speaker 1: how far away to be, you know, what kind of conversations,
Speaker 1: what kind of questions, blah blah blah. I would say
Speaker 1: that for you, ninety nine point nine percent of your
Speaker 1: significant knowledge about how to produce and create and sell
Speaker 1: and deliver a high quality podcast is all about what
Speaker 1: you've done. It's not about anything that you read on
Speaker 1: how to create a podcast. It's not about you know,
Speaker 1: maybe you and I had a couple of conversations early days,
Speaker 1: but you've been involved in this for years. So there's
Speaker 1: that kind of I know a lot about podcasting because
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of fucking podcasting, and I've made
Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes, you know, So I think it's
Speaker 1: I do do stuff to you know, like even with
Speaker 1: my PhD, like I share a fair bit about of that.
Speaker 1: But all that also, you know, even though I'm talking
Speaker 1: about metaperception, how others see us and our ability to
Speaker 1: understand that I was talking about that fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: I've got notes from fifteen years ago that literally talk
Speaker 1: about the you experience like that I wrote in you know,
Speaker 1: twenty ten, two thousand and eight. I've got old notes
Speaker 1: where I'm talking about this idea that I didn't know
Speaker 1: you had a name because I just thought I called
Speaker 1: it the you experience. What's it like being around you?
Speaker 1: Because I think it matters? And then you know ten
Speaker 1: years later, I go, oh, there's this whole raft of
Speaker 1: research around this thing that you talk about, Craig. And
Speaker 1: so it's that convergence of that I think that makes
Speaker 1: I think not only for good teaching and coaching and
Speaker 1: conversation on a podcast, but also for you as a learner.
Speaker 1: If you can kind of if you can kind of
Speaker 1: merge what you read with what you do, and what
Speaker 1: you're doing gets reinforced by what you're reading or vice versa,
Speaker 1: then that I think that knowledge and that learning sticks.
Speaker 1: It's like if I read something and then I never
Speaker 1: kind of have any real world experience around that theoretical
Speaker 1: idea or construct, it tends to fall out of my head.
Speaker 2: So how closely connected when you think of all of
Speaker 2: the areas that you've taught in, whether that be in
Speaker 2: the gym or now theory of mine and all of
Speaker 2: the things in between, the things you've focused on, how
Speaker 2: closely connected to each of those things or what percentage
Speaker 2: of them have you been closely connected to in something
Speaker 2: that you had to learn or overcome yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a really good question. And I think
Speaker 1: when you ask that question, it makes me feel I'm
Speaker 1: kind of selfish in that I tend to just pay
Speaker 1: attention to shit that I'm really fascinated with and stuff
Speaker 1: that affects me. But also I think the good part,
Speaker 1: luckily for me, it's kind of relevant for most humans,
Speaker 1: you know, like what's it beening around me? It's relevant
Speaker 1: for most people. Physical health is relevant for everyone, you know,
Speaker 1: managing your nutrition, managing your choices, try to trying to
Speaker 1: understand what's intentional living, Like how do I live on
Speaker 1: purpose rather than by accident? You know, these kind of philosophical,
Speaker 1: bigger questions. What is my purpose? What are my values?
Speaker 1: Why am I here? What does it matter? What will
Speaker 1: my life look like in one, two, five, ten years,
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Yes, so I think that. I
Speaker 1: think though that most people who say get into personal
Speaker 1: development or psychology, or even people who get into personal training,
Speaker 1: like I would say, and God bless them, because I'm
Speaker 1: one of the people I'm about to identify, I would say,
Speaker 1: a disproportionate number of people who become personal trainers have
Speaker 1: body issues or food issues or do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Because I did, and that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: I became the fat kid who became the fit kid,
Speaker 1: who became the obsessed kid who then tried to wind
Speaker 1: back the obsession and become a bit more practical and logical.
Speaker 1: But that initial curiosity about the body and health and
Speaker 1: high performance was the initial kind of starting point was
Speaker 1: you know, my all of my issues around that. And
Speaker 1: then I guess trying to understand the mind, you know,
Speaker 1: for me very much, trying to understand my own mind.
Speaker 1: And I think that's you know, this is almost like
Speaker 1: the greatest adventure in self awareness. Is you trying to
Speaker 1: understand you, literally the you project. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: this is it? If you can't understand you, you know
Speaker 1: why you do stuff you do, and why you don't
Speaker 1: do stuff you don't do, and why you avoid things
Speaker 1: you shouldn't avoid, and why you say things that you
Speaker 1: regret five seconds later, and why you're fucking you know,
Speaker 1: sixty years old and still looking for attention and approval,
Speaker 1: or you know, why you're doing things which are essentially
Speaker 1: a form of self destruction and self sabotage when you
Speaker 1: know better now all of these things are just interesting
Speaker 1: to me. And also by the way, you know, how
Speaker 1: awesome am I sometimes? And also by the way, wow,
Speaker 1: I did better than I ever like, I've done better
Speaker 1: in my life. And I don't think I'm the high
Speaker 1: watermark for success, and I never pumped my ties up,
Speaker 1: but I've done more great stuff in my life than
Speaker 1: I ever imagined I would do when I was the
Speaker 1: fourteen year old fucking facted in Latroe Valley ever, you know,
Speaker 1: like I look back and there's nothing but gratitude. But
Speaker 1: what it does for me is I go, well, I
Speaker 1: can do two thousands of this, thousand episodes of this podcast,
Speaker 1: and I can write a bunch of books, and I
Speaker 1: can do it whatever, and I can travel around the
Speaker 1: world and speak and people actually fucking listen. And then
Speaker 1: you go, what else can I do? Like? What else
Speaker 1: can I do? You know? Because it's that you can't
Speaker 1: get confidence by not doing stuff. You can't build skill
Speaker 1: and capacity and understanding by thinking about getting it. You
Speaker 1: literally have to go and try stuff and fall down, fail,
Speaker 1: fuck up, get back up, and then you look up
Speaker 1: one day and you're now five years into this journey
Speaker 1: where you know you're becoming a boxer. You get in
Speaker 1: the ring, you've got you go to your first class.
Speaker 1: You don't know how to throw a punch. You don't
Speaker 1: even know what a hook or an uppercut or a jab.
Speaker 1: You don't even know what these words are. And then
Speaker 1: one day you wake up and you've won. You've had
Speaker 1: all these boxing matches and you've won titles, and now
Speaker 1: you talk to corporate. It's about this journey you had
Speaker 1: in boxing and the lessons out of that. But you
Speaker 1: couldn't do any of that had you not gone to
Speaker 1: the first class, got your ass handed to you, and
Speaker 1: you know, learn stuff like this is there's no avoiding
Speaker 1: the journey. And I think it's the Yes, it's the
Speaker 1: intersection of knowing things and understanding the theory of this
Speaker 1: or that, Like understanding the theory of how to eat
Speaker 1: grape is not the same as eating grape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, hell, I love it. How long this might
Speaker 2: have changed over the years, I'm guessing, so maybe you'll elaborate.
Speaker 2: I don't need to tell you to elaboraten to do
Speaker 2: I how well far ahead of your audience do you
Speaker 2: generally find yourself when you're choosing to step in and
Speaker 2: teach those things that you're learning or have learned.
Speaker 1: Do you mean in real time? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I guess like we yeah, like now yeap now or
Speaker 2: when you first So, I mean it would have been
Speaker 2: different when you were young Craig who decided to open
Speaker 2: the first personal training studio, because you've just learned a
Speaker 2: thing and there's not really a timeline on becoming an
Speaker 2: expert at that you just go, well, I'll make this
Speaker 2: up and do it. But we you know, like I
Speaker 2: remember when fight Fit gave me that my first job
Speaker 2: in fitness and allowed me to train people there and said, oh,
Speaker 2: you're one of the one of the fighters is signed
Speaker 2: up and once you was their coach, and I shit
Speaker 2: myself and went, what I what I can't teach someone.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much knowledge I had and how
Speaker 2: far ahead I was.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think listeners because you know what, I think
Speaker 2: listeners will be interesting because we have imposter syndrome and
Speaker 2: we all have things to teach. But also there's you know,
Speaker 2: I know you've talked about learning from fucking like having
Speaker 2: a business coach that's failed in all of their businesses,
Speaker 2: Like how do you so how do people start their
Speaker 2: thing and create something and teach people when they're just
Speaker 2: one or two steps ahead, Like, what is that point?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think you know. I think you just
Speaker 1: start off by as a coach anyway, Like I try
Speaker 1: not to put myself on a pedestal. I don't think
Speaker 1: you'll ever hear in any of the two thousand episodes
Speaker 1: me say I'm an expert, or i'm you should do
Speaker 1: what I think you should do, or what I try
Speaker 1: to do is just I try to be real and
Speaker 1: raw and relatable but also know what I feel confident
Speaker 1: and capable and valuable to others in. Even when I
Speaker 1: go and like and I've spoken of probably thousands of
Speaker 1: companies by now, But even when I go and work
Speaker 1: with a company and I'm in a corporate space and
Speaker 1: I'm working with an organization and we're at work and
Speaker 1: everyone's in suits and frocks and whatever everyone's were, and
Speaker 1: I'm in that, I still don't talk about business or
Speaker 1: commerce or the bottom line or systems, or I talk
Speaker 1: about people because I'm not a business expert. And even
Speaker 1: though I've owned businesses and I've employed lots of people
Speaker 1: and I've done okay, I literally say Look, I'm not
Speaker 1: in here to talk to you about the bottom line
Speaker 1: or business or the infrastructure or this, so that I'm
Speaker 1: here to talk to you about how you're all going
Speaker 1: individually and not as cogs in the machine or not
Speaker 1: as employees, but rather just as humans who do good
Speaker 1: stuff and dumb stuff and make decisions and fail and
Speaker 1: fuck up and get back up. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the authenticity or trying to be authentic anyway while still
Speaker 1: being you know, like, it's all well and good to
Speaker 1: get on and bang on about what I think and
Speaker 1: why I think, and what you think and where you've been,
Speaker 1: but also you and I still need to be of
Speaker 1: value to the listener. And yeah, we need to be
Speaker 1: real and relatable, but we also need to be able
Speaker 1: to say, look, here are a few things that worked
Speaker 1: for me. I'm not saying go do them. I'm saying
Speaker 1: I had this problem. This is what I did. I
Speaker 1: had this challenge. This is how it worked out for me.
Speaker 1: You know, this is how I developed as a speaker
Speaker 1: and a podcast or an author and an academic and
Speaker 1: a not particularly hugely talented individual who decided to figure
Speaker 1: out what the fuck he could try and do if
Speaker 1: he didn't give up, right, So this is and I
Speaker 1: think it's in your journey and your lessons and your
Speaker 1: revelations without you necessarily directing anyone. That's the goal. Like,
Speaker 1: I love it when I hear people that I know
Speaker 1: when I interviewed, I think you're on there with me.
Speaker 1: Mark Randolph, who created Netflix, and just talking to the
Speaker 1: guy that fucking built Netflix. And he didn't go, all right,
Speaker 1: well this is you know step one, I did this
Speaker 1: and step two. I just I'm like talking to a
Speaker 1: guy who built one of the biggest things in the world,
Speaker 1: who's a billionaire, and I'm just interested in how he thinks.
Speaker 1: I'm interested in where did you start with that? Then?
Speaker 1: What'd you do? And how did you deal how did
Speaker 1: you navigate that problem and that issue and that challenge? Okay,
Speaker 1: and now you're sixty odd and you're worth all of
Speaker 1: this money. So what drives you now? What makes you
Speaker 1: happy now? What stresses you now? Are you still working
Speaker 1: a million hours a week? What does work look like?
Speaker 1: Do you work at all? And just like I think
Speaker 1: it's in hearing other people's stories rather than other people's
Speaker 1: instructions to us that for me anyway, I like learning
Speaker 1: that way rather than someone going Craig, all right, I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about grief. You know, I
Speaker 1: know this silly example. We spoke to Rachel the other day,
Speaker 1: Rachel Pope about grief. But you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: here are the four steps. I'd just rather if I'm grieving,
Speaker 1: or I'm sad, or I'm upset, I would maybe want
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody who is going through similar themselves,
Speaker 1: just to see what they do. And you know, so
Speaker 1: I don't even know what you asked me, but I
Speaker 1: did go on a long verbal bloody ride.
Speaker 2: Then good lad, good lad? When all right? So, I
Speaker 2: know there's areas that you've stepped into that you don't
Speaker 2: have experience, like working with addicts. What and maybe you
Speaker 2: want to call out other areas or not, or just
Speaker 2: answer the question, Yeah, for sure relevant? But what what
Speaker 2: when you when you did that? What did you How
Speaker 2: did you draw the perception of what you thought you
Speaker 2: needed to know? How did you like? How did you
Speaker 2: land there? How did you become the guy that taught
Speaker 2: people to overcome addictions that you never even touched?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Great question. Okay, so let me just clarify a
Speaker 1: little bit, just a slight correction. So I didn't teach
Speaker 1: them to overcome addictions. I essentially when they went in
Speaker 1: there to just talk to them about all the health, wellness, nutrition,
Speaker 1: lifestyle stuff. But I was working literally in an addiction
Speaker 1: recovery setting with addicts, and so, yes, you're correct, the
Speaker 1: learning curve for me was steep. And so did I
Speaker 1: know Did I have a pretty high level of knowledge
Speaker 1: about what I was teaching? Yes? Did I have a
Speaker 1: high level of understanding of who I was talking to? No,
Speaker 1: I really didn't. And so that for me was the challenge.
Speaker 1: But it's like anything like I could say to you, Tiff,
Speaker 1: I want you, I've organized, I've organized for you to
Speaker 1: do pre season with hamp and Rovers Football Club, who
Speaker 1: are not that far from me. Right, I'm going to
Speaker 1: give you some tips and advice. I've worked with my
Speaker 1: ball sporting teams, Elite Club Da Da Da Da Da.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some advice. But then you're
Speaker 1: going to write their pre season. You're not doing forty stuff,
Speaker 1: you're just doing conditioning, and you're working with forty blokes
Speaker 1: and they range from seventeen to thirty five, and that Dada,
Speaker 1: you would probably shit yourself and you can't just do
Speaker 1: everything boxing. No, You've actually got to figure out how
Speaker 1: to build strength, muscular endurance, aerobic endurance, how to help
Speaker 1: people rehab, how to build flexibility, IMpower, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Right now, I know you could do that, but I
Speaker 1: know the first time that you did that, that would
Speaker 1: be hard, that would be a steep learning curve. But
Speaker 1: I know the fourth time that you did that, it'd
Speaker 1: be a piece of piss. Right. But you can't get
Speaker 1: to the fourth time without doing the first time. You
Speaker 1: can't come. You can't become that personal trainer or that
Speaker 1: exercise specialist that you are with that knowledge and that
Speaker 1: competence and that skill without doing it the first time.
Speaker 1: And so when you go the first time, like when
Speaker 1: I wrote my first book, I know this is not
Speaker 1: going to be the best book ever written. But I
Speaker 1: also know that everyone who's successfully published wrote a first book,
Speaker 1: and so this is just the journey. And so you
Speaker 1: don't go in thinking I'm going to be shit hot.
Speaker 1: You go in thinking I'm going to do my very
Speaker 1: best and hopefully I will learn quick and hopefully I
Speaker 1: will I will meet some needs in this environment for
Speaker 1: what I meant to do. But I just think you know,
Speaker 1: you be you go in and you be humble you
Speaker 1: go I don't think I was arrogant when I was
Speaker 1: went into the addiction space, but I just was unprepared.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't think, oh, I'm going to kill it.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, And for those who haven't heard me
Speaker 1: talk about it, I just didn't really understand how people
Speaker 1: with those challenges. I didn't understand the lens through which
Speaker 1: they viewed a lot of things that we were talking about.
Speaker 1: And then so the guy who is pretty competent at
Speaker 1: building connection and rapport wasn't building connection or rapport. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking all my Craig tricks are not working,
Speaker 1: you know. And so you're using the right tool in
Speaker 1: the wrong setting or using the wrong tool, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh this my bullshit doesn't work here
Speaker 1: because they don't trust me. I don't speak like them.
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not like them. They think I'm a
Speaker 1: fucking idiot. And then you're like, Okay, so before I
Speaker 1: share my wisdom, maybe I should try and understand them.
Speaker 2: So what's your advice to people who how do we
Speaker 2: marry that scenario and land in a place and have
Speaker 2: both rapport and respect and trust without faking it till
Speaker 2: we make it and being inauthentic, Like how do you
Speaker 2: stick in all a space and go fuck? I don't
Speaker 2: know as much as I feel like I should, but
Speaker 2: I have to know a bit so that they feel
Speaker 2: comfort stable and trust the process, but also don't see
Speaker 2: right through me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So last year I did a gig for the
Speaker 1: Victorian Ladies cricket team. I've never worked with a cricket team, right,
Speaker 1: all of my knowledge of cricket is probably could be
Speaker 1: stored in your little finger. Like, I mean, I've watched
Speaker 1: cricket and all that, but I am in now and
Speaker 1: you're talking about one of the best cricket teams in
Speaker 1: Australia and all of a sudden and obviously there I
Speaker 1: wasn't there to teach them how to play cricket. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like I go in and I say, well, fortunately
Speaker 1: for you, I'm not here to tell you anything about crickets,
Speaker 1: so thank God for that, right, And you just I
Speaker 1: think you go in there and you you kind of
Speaker 1: express potentially like I think without going in there and
Speaker 1: throwing yourself under the bus when you go in and
Speaker 1: you go, look, I definitely am not an addiction specialist,
Speaker 1: but I do know fear about fair bit about you know,
Speaker 1: nutrition and training and exercise and health and human body
Speaker 1: or I don't know a lot about cricket. I kind
Speaker 1: of understand the basics, and you know, I can I
Speaker 1: understand kind of what I think the main physiological attributes
Speaker 1: are that we need. But you know, so that's my disclaimer,
Speaker 1: but I do know a fair bit about this stuff,
Speaker 1: and that's why I'm here. But also I really want
Speaker 1: your input and feedback because you can teach me about
Speaker 1: cricket and as I teach you about how to optimize
Speaker 1: your genetic potential and your physiology to be the best cricketer.
Speaker 1: And also let's open the door on the mind stuff
Speaker 1: a little bit so that we can figure out how
Speaker 1: to self regulate under pressure, whatever it is. But you're
Speaker 1: not going in there going hey, I know you guys
Speaker 1: have got problems. I'm the answer. So fucking sit in
Speaker 1: your bean bag and soak it all in. You know,
Speaker 1: I think people, you know, it's like imagine just walking
Speaker 1: in with a big fucking black T shirt and splashed
Speaker 1: across you know, the answers here. You're welcome. But that's
Speaker 1: I think It's like, for me, this makes me you know,
Speaker 1: and I've said this before, you know, I hate this.
Speaker 1: I hate it when people, basically, especially experts, and I
Speaker 1: use that term very loosely, they essentially present themselves as
Speaker 1: the answer to people's problems. I'm like, that is the
Speaker 1: most arrogant bullshit. And by the way, most of those
Speaker 1: people who present themselves on many of them, they don't
Speaker 1: even have their own shit together, right. There have been
Speaker 1: times when I've been well, I don't think I try
Speaker 1: to present myself as answer, but I know myself. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm still struggling with I'm still figuring shit out. But
Speaker 1: I think that you know that having that self awareness
Speaker 1: in the moment, and you know that avoiding that I've
Speaker 1: changed this many people's lives. So like, when people tell
Speaker 1: me how many lives they have changed, I go, Okay,
Speaker 1: did you get out of bed for them? Did you
Speaker 1: make the decision for them? Did you do the work
Speaker 1: for them? Were you courageous for them? Did you eat
Speaker 1: the food for them? Did you have the heart? You
Speaker 1: didn't fucking change their life. They changed their life, and
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you helped a little bit, But I haven't
Speaker 1: changed anyone's life, and I've spoken to fucking problem. Well,
Speaker 1: definitely millions of people over the podcast you know, where
Speaker 1: twenty million listens over the last eight years or something ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And I know there's very few repeat customers there, but
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking lots of people across lots of platforms.
Speaker 1: But every person that has intersected with me and then
Speaker 1: gone on to do not because of me, but subsequent
Speaker 1: to encountering me, and it may have had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with me, by the way, but they've gone on
Speaker 1: to do something amazing. I didn't do any of the work.
Speaker 1: I literally didn't do any of the work. They literally
Speaker 1: did all of it the work, and that is why,
Speaker 1: you know, I just think, you know, I wrote something
Speaker 1: the other day which sounds like a bit like spiritual psychobably,
Speaker 1: but I say to people, I'm not the gift. I'm
Speaker 1: just the conduit to the gift. It's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: the answer, but I might have some answers for you.
Speaker 1: And I think if you realize truly as a teacher,
Speaker 1: as a coach, as a mentor whatever, if you realize
Speaker 1: you're not the gift and you are just it is
Speaker 1: a gift to be able to help people. I think that,
Speaker 1: and that you might be a conduit or you might
Speaker 1: open a door to help them. Then I think people
Speaker 1: are going to and one, this is real. This is
Speaker 1: not some manufactured fucking image that you know, Oh look
Speaker 1: at me, I'm super humble, but this is how you are.
Speaker 1: People just trust you. The nicest thing that people can
Speaker 1: say to me, pretty much is when I meet them
Speaker 1: away from this show, they go, oh, you're exactly the same.
Speaker 1: I love that. They go, oh my god, you're exactly
Speaker 1: the same. And I go, of course, you know, because
Speaker 1: I imagine doing two thousand hours of podcasting where you're
Speaker 1: pretending to be something you're not.
Speaker 2: What's the difference and what are the similarities that you
Speaker 2: find working with elite athletes or executives and everyday people.
Speaker 1: Ah, well, obviously this is not the answer you're looking for.
Speaker 1: But obviously they're all human, which means obviously they've all
Speaker 1: got insecurity, self doubt, overthinking, self loathing periodically. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, the common denominator across say, corporates and elite
Speaker 1: athletes and maybe not so much the general public, but
Speaker 1: will come. We'll circle back to that. As the kids say,
Speaker 1: is that you know most people, in not all people,
Speaker 1: but most people, depending on the level we're talking about
Speaker 1: in corporate, are pretty ambitious. Most elite athletes are pretty ambitious.
Speaker 1: They want to do more, be more, create more, succeed.
Speaker 1: So I think there's that level of drive and motivation
Speaker 1: that you don't necessarily find in everyone. And then you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the general public, you know, I think they
Speaker 1: are motivated perhaps by different things, but also the general
Speaker 1: public are elite athletes do and the general public are
Speaker 1: business owners and all of that. But I think the
Speaker 1: thing that you know, everybody wants to feel like they matter.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to belong, everybody like nobody wants to be miserable.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to be successful. But I think the mistake
Speaker 1: that we make, whether it's in the corporate space, the
Speaker 1: elite sport sporting space, or the elite sports space, or
Speaker 1: general public, is I think we put way too much
Speaker 1: emphasis on including me, by the way, including me, We
Speaker 1: put way too muchmphasis on external results, what people are
Speaker 1: going to see, and we have way too much belief
Speaker 1: in if I create this outcome, or I get that thing,
Speaker 1: or I do that thing, that's just going to create
Speaker 1: this incredible internal state of bliss, of harmony, of joy,
Speaker 1: of contentment, of and it tends not to it tends
Speaker 1: to be fleeting. You know. It's like you think of
Speaker 1: all the boys that won the all the men that
Speaker 1: won the AFL Grand Final two days ago, you think
Speaker 1: that none of those in the next year are going
Speaker 1: to get depressed or anxious or have a shit day
Speaker 1: or like that's the sporting pinnacle for the biggest sport
Speaker 1: in Australia and they won, And do you think they're
Speaker 1: not going to have as many struggles in the next three, six,
Speaker 1: twelve months as anyone?
Speaker 2: I would say potentially even more more. Imagine now what
Speaker 2: the baseline feels like. The baseline would feel like the
Speaker 2: depths of despair. Imagine just coming back from cloud nine,
Speaker 2: to just come back to baseline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's actually a there's a term for that which
Speaker 1: escapes me. But yeah, it's that where we get to
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain and whatever we thought we
Speaker 1: were going to experience at the top, we either don't
Speaker 1: experience it or it's fleeting. And then so we had
Speaker 1: this idea, and the idea was that when I get
Speaker 1: to the top of the metaphoric mountain, whatever that means
Speaker 1: for you that that is going to create some cataclysmic,
Speaker 1: beautiful internal shift and then I am fuck. All the
Speaker 1: ship that holds me back will diss of the anxiety
Speaker 1: and the self doubt and the overthinking and the rumor
Speaker 1: nation that'll all disappear because my self esteem will be
Speaker 1: amazing and people will know that I'm great now because
Speaker 1: I did this thing and I own this and I
Speaker 1: have that, and yeah, it's it just ain't true, and
Speaker 1: that's why you know. It's Yeah, it's why you know.
Speaker 1: Nobody looks across the room and identify somebody who's driving
Speaker 1: a piece of shit and living in a one bedroom
Speaker 1: apartment and says, oh, wow, have you They're a success
Speaker 1: story because they're happy and they're content and they're calm
Speaker 1: and they live in a state of perpetual equanimity. Right,
Speaker 1: No one does that because we don't. We talk about that,
Speaker 1: but we don't really value it. In our culture, we
Speaker 1: really value things, which is why we look at people
Speaker 1: and go, oh, wow, she's doing great or he's doing great.
Speaker 1: What we mean is their career is awesome, or their
Speaker 1: sporting prowess is amazing, or they're getting whatever. You know
Speaker 1: that it's more about what they're doing and getting and
Speaker 1: having than what's happening on that you know in that
Speaker 1: real world, which is like what's going on inside you.
Speaker 1: How many times have you looked like from outside you're
Speaker 1: killing it and you're Sadi Max ads to for a
Speaker 1: day or a week and you don't even know why,
Speaker 1: and you like, even when you logically go, fuck, I've
Speaker 1: got people who care about me. I've got enough stuff,
Speaker 1: I own a few things, I make a pretty good wage.
Speaker 1: And then it doesn't necessarily equate to this positive inner experience.
Speaker 2: How influenced do you feel by the people that surround you?
Speaker 2: And have you do you order that? Has there been
Speaker 2: times you've noticed it? And have you made decisions to
Speaker 2: distance yourself from relationships or environments due to how it
Speaker 2: influences you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Wow, wow, So I really care about people, and
Speaker 1: I think my perspective on life and like purpose and
Speaker 1: all of that is probably not better or not worse,
Speaker 1: but not typical in that there are not many people
Speaker 1: my age who don't have a wife, or who've never
Speaker 1: had a wife or a partner, who don't have a
Speaker 1: child or a grandchild or and who you know, So
Speaker 1: my life in the sense of what is more normal
Speaker 1: for you know, sixty year old blokes in suburbia. I'm
Speaker 1: probably towards the other end of the scale, but I am.
Speaker 1: I am slow to trust, as you know. That's not
Speaker 1: in reference to you, but you know that like I don't.
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean I distrust everyone. I don't. I
Speaker 1: have just and there's no what's the word, there's.
Speaker 2: No selfdia that you don't that you question your ability
Speaker 2: to trust to make the right trust call. Because that's
Speaker 2: what I feel with me is it's not that I
Speaker 2: don't trust the person, it's that I don't trust my judgment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably a better way I put it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now I like that. Yeah, I've just trusted people before
Speaker 1: that I shouldn't have trusted. And like I said, there's
Speaker 1: nobody self pity and that just is what it is.
Speaker 1: But then there's also been people that I really didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily think much of or didn't think about that turned
Speaker 1: out to be incredible humans, you know. So it's it
Speaker 1: goes both ways. But I try to be I try
Speaker 1: to be strategic and also intuitive, which they seem diametrically opposed.
Speaker 1: I think they can be synergistic. I think strategy and
Speaker 1: intuition can go hand in hand. But I try and
Speaker 1: be strategic and intuitive about where and how I invest
Speaker 1: my emotional energy in people, and so I try to,
Speaker 1: you know, like I can only do so much where
Speaker 1: I'm just giving, giving giving to someone, where I'm sitting
Speaker 1: with someone who's got, you know, some really big challenges,
Speaker 1: and I'm there and I can go, all right, well,
Speaker 1: I can give you this time here, I can see
Speaker 1: you between this time and this time, because then I
Speaker 1: know thirty minutes after that, I've got a podcast that
Speaker 1: I know straight after that, I've got three hours of UNI.
Speaker 1: Then I know straight after that I've got to go
Speaker 1: see my parents. So then you know, you can't be
Speaker 1: everything to everyone. And I think your mental and emotional energy,
Speaker 1: like mine, like every individual listener, it is a it
Speaker 1: is not an infinite resource like it is finite. And
Speaker 1: you know you're great, You're great, You're great, And now
Speaker 1: I hit the wall. I'm fucked. I'm fucked. I don't
Speaker 1: have any more energy. I need food, I need bed,
Speaker 1: I need a reset, and then tomorrow and I'm up
Speaker 1: and I'm fucking amazing. But I think we all need
Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, like let's call that the
Speaker 1: petrol for our car. Where the car, it's the petrol.
Speaker 1: It's like, how much petrol do you need each day?
Speaker 1: And what's the best way to drive that through the
Speaker 1: day so that you can you can get the best
Speaker 1: ROI return on investment based on who and how you
Speaker 1: want to be. So I would rather do not that
Speaker 1: I do coaching sessions per se much these days, but
Speaker 1: I'd rather do three amazing ones than ten shit ones.
Speaker 1: Even if it was, you know, a thousand dollars ahead.
Speaker 1: You go, well, I'd mother rather make three grand than
Speaker 1: ten grand. It's not by the way, everyone, I'm just
Speaker 1: just so it's like you want to go, how like
Speaker 1: what's my performance threshold? How much of this can I
Speaker 1: do really well? It's like I would not try and
Speaker 1: do seven podcasts today. Could I do them? Yes? Would
Speaker 1: they all be? Well? I'm not guaranteeing this one's any good?
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, Like, the chances of
Speaker 1: you doing one or two podcasts in a day, if
Speaker 1: you're prepped and ready, and you're a mental and emotionally
Speaker 1: in a good place, the chance of you doing one
Speaker 1: or two good ones, so to speak, is high. If
Speaker 1: you've got skill and all of that. But the chances
Speaker 1: of you doing seven good ones, no chance, but zero zero,
Speaker 1: And so you go, well, let's not do that. You know,
Speaker 1: the chances of me going, all right, I'm going to
Speaker 1: read this academic paper that's one hundred pages long. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to sit here and read page one to
Speaker 1: page hundred and well that's done, because by page seven
Speaker 1: I'm fucking thinking about skateboards and I don't even skateboard.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you need to go, you need
Speaker 1: to go, all right, well, here's a thing I have
Speaker 1: to do. I have to read this paper. Some people
Speaker 1: probably could sit and read the hundred pages. I'm not
Speaker 1: that person. So then you go, well, what's the best
Speaker 1: way for me to do this? Well, probably a good
Speaker 1: plan is read five pages at a time, you know,
Speaker 1: read it, highlight it, circle stuff, underline stuff, and then
Speaker 1: you know, it might take me four days, you know,
Speaker 1: I might do twenty five pages a day. But I'm
Speaker 1: reading it, I'm understanding it, I'm relating it to my
Speaker 1: own research, I'm using it, you know. And that's you know,
Speaker 1: just for an example. But yeah, I think that we
Speaker 1: we can be quite inefficient and unwise with our own energy, mental, emotional,
Speaker 1: physical energy, and then we wake up and we're like,
Speaker 1: a fuck, I've been wasting time and wasting my potential
Speaker 1: and wasting my energy. How do I be more strategic
Speaker 1: and intelligent about using that in a way which produces
Speaker 1: the outcomes I actually want? And also I'll shut up
Speaker 1: after this. But also when it comes to us, we
Speaker 1: like to think we're real, practical, logical, reasonal reasonable. We're
Speaker 1: fucking not. We're more practical and reasonable and logical about
Speaker 1: helping other people. You know, when you coach someone and
Speaker 1: they rock up and they're like, here are the things
Speaker 1: I need to deal with and talk about and I
Speaker 1: need help on, it's pretty easy for you as a
Speaker 1: coach to sit back because it's not you. They're not
Speaker 1: your issues, it's not your life. So you sit back
Speaker 1: as a coach and then you go, what about this?
Speaker 1: What about that? It's all very and I'm the same.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to me, well, I'm emotional about
Speaker 1: my body. I'm emotional. When someone says you're a dick head,
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I don't think I'm overwhelmed by or
Speaker 1: controlled by But for me to think that I'm the
Speaker 1: exception to the rule that nothing affects me, that I'm
Speaker 1: just this eye rise above all the emotional stuff that
Speaker 1: derails everybody else. Well, that's arrogance, of course. So you've
Speaker 1: got to go. Yeah, It's like, I've seen you emotional.
Speaker 1: I've seen you irrational and emotional. I've been irrational and emotional.
Speaker 1: And then I've seen you when you're just fucking in
Speaker 1: the zone and you're just throwing three pointers basketball metaphor everyone,
Speaker 1: and you're just throwing three point after three point after,
Speaker 1: and your brain's on point and your energy is on point,
Speaker 1: and your productivity is on point, and you're like, you're
Speaker 1: fucking smashing it, you know. But that's nobody's doing that
Speaker 1: every day, all day. So I think this comes back
Speaker 1: into this, you know, like I said the start of
Speaker 1: the show, the you project, the managing you, the self awareness,
Speaker 1: all of this.
Speaker 2: Did you when you were younger and you were looking
Speaker 2: for mentors or insight or a path or a way
Speaker 2: to go or influence, did you notice that? Did you
Speaker 2: notice you might have put yourself into an environment and
Speaker 2: then decided, actually, this is not what I want this.
Speaker 2: I don't like the version of me that will come
Speaker 2: out of this if I follow this path.
Speaker 1: No, not really, I mean young young, young, like in
Speaker 1: my teens, I didn't really have so much. I mean
Speaker 1: I think you look for as a young teenager, you
Speaker 1: look up to. I looked up to anyway, older teenagers
Speaker 1: that I thought had their shit together or you know.
Speaker 1: So there's that, and they're a role model without even
Speaker 1: knowing they're a role model, you know. And you always
Speaker 1: look up when you're a young boy. Not everyone does,
Speaker 1: I guess. But you know, my dad was doing quite well.
Speaker 1: He was quite successful. I always used to Dad was
Speaker 1: not a great communicator, but he would like he taught
Speaker 1: me things. And I spoke about this the other day,
Speaker 1: or maybe about it. Dad taught me things through what
Speaker 1: he did, you know, the way that he would the
Speaker 1: way that he would navigate things. So I looked up.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I told this. I can't remember
Speaker 1: because I do so much stuff. But I spoke the
Speaker 1: other day in some forum about when I was fourteen,
Speaker 1: i'd already spent a couple of years working in my parents'
Speaker 1: hardware store after school and on weekends and during school holidays.
Speaker 1: They had quite a big hardware store in La Trivalian.
Speaker 1: One summer I went to work there, and and Dad said,
Speaker 1: if you basically I need he needed another employee for
Speaker 1: the summer, and he said, I will you can be
Speaker 1: that employee if you work like a man and produce
Speaker 1: like a man or an adult. Right if you you know,
Speaker 1: if you can do the work of an adult, I
Speaker 1: will pay you an adult age. And I was fourteen
Speaker 1: years old, and this is so nineteen to seventy seven.
Speaker 1: I got paid one hundred and forty dollars a week,
Speaker 1: which back then was mind blowing, like mind blowing, and
Speaker 1: he didn't have to do that. But what I learned was,
Speaker 1: oh cool, if I make a big effort, there's actually
Speaker 1: a reward. But if I hadn't of he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: given it to me. But he realized that I was
Speaker 1: like when I was fourteen. I was also quite mature
Speaker 1: for my age. Because I was an only child. I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time around adults, and I always
Speaker 1: grew up in and around businesses, so I kind of
Speaker 1: got it right. But yeah, and so that kind of
Speaker 1: role modeling where I'm more interested in what people are
Speaker 1: doing than necessarily telling me, you know. And then there
Speaker 1: was other the more cheesy ones. And people will now
Speaker 1: roll their eyes. But for me, like even someone like
Speaker 1: I started reading self help books when nobody read, well,
Speaker 1: no seventeen year old was reading. I read a book
Speaker 1: called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, which was
Speaker 1: not the greatest book, but it was the start of
Speaker 1: a book. It was like part of the start of
Speaker 1: my journey. There was another book called very famous. A
Speaker 1: lot of young people never heard of it. It's called
Speaker 1: How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is a
Speaker 1: cheesy title.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that, yeah.
Speaker 1: Written by Dale Carnegie in nineteen thirty six. I listened
Speaker 1: to Tony Robbins, I wore his tapes out. I listened
Speaker 1: to old school Deepak chow bra I listen. I just
Speaker 1: listened to people that I love the way they thought.
Speaker 1: I fell in love with people's minds, right. I fell
Speaker 1: in love with people who would basically suggest that, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't have to be this fat, insecure, inadequate
Speaker 1: underachiever growing up in rural Victoria. Maybe. And by the way,
Speaker 1: nobody said that to me like that was my that
Speaker 1: was I said that to me, right, So it's not
Speaker 1: like Craig was this victim of no. I wasn't. My
Speaker 1: life was actually fine, but my opinion of me was
Speaker 1: so fucking underwhelming that when I would hear these people
Speaker 1: who came from not great beginnings to do these things
Speaker 1: that you know, it's just listening to Tony Robbins that
Speaker 1: the amount of times I heard him talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: how he lived in this four hundred square foot which
Speaker 1: is twenty by twenty one bedroom apartment in Santa Monica,
Speaker 1: and all these stories that I heard of him and
Speaker 1: all the fuck ups and all that, And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: if he can be shitting and then some come something,
Speaker 1: I can be shitting and become something also. So that's
Speaker 1: why I think storytelling is so powerful. That's why I think.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, why do people listen to so
Speaker 1: many podcasts, Why don't they just listen to Why don't
Speaker 1: they just go read the data in the research because
Speaker 1: it's fucking boring and you can't remember it, and you
Speaker 1: can't apply it, you can't understand it a lot of it.
Speaker 1: But what you can do is you can listen to
Speaker 1: people that you resonate with who have got stories and
Speaker 1: thoughts and ways of expressing information or strategies or whatever
Speaker 1: that resonates with you, which is why, you know, God
Speaker 1: love him. I don't know why, but it's why some
Speaker 1: people have listened to every episode. It's why people consistently say,
Speaker 1: you know, we love the show. And then there are
Speaker 1: other people for whom it won't resonate, of course, but
Speaker 1: good chat, cook, good chat. We started slow, We started slow,
Speaker 1: We reached.
Speaker 2: A we didn't like the conversation on tires.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't mind that. I didn't mind that.
Speaker 1: It's funny when you do this right. We should probably
Speaker 1: hang up, but we're going to keep talking. Everyone just
Speaker 1: from it, you know, Like I said to you, like
Speaker 1: one of the challenges of an everyday show is, you know,
Speaker 1: trying not to be too repetitive. And I absolutely recognize
Speaker 1: even Joe Rogan that I listened to literally some of
Speaker 1: Joe's stories I've heard him tell twenty times. I could
Speaker 1: tell this story because I know it, because it's But
Speaker 1: what happens is he'll get a guest in. The guest
Speaker 1: doesn't know the story, so he tells the story again
Speaker 1: to the guest. But then those of us who have
Speaker 1: heard a million whatevers. But yeah, you try to be
Speaker 1: of course, you're going to keep exploring the human experience.
Speaker 1: To human condition and all of those things, But you think,
Speaker 1: what do we do today? How do we talk about
Speaker 1: this in a way which is not overly repetitive, and
Speaker 1: especially when it's you and me, or especially when it's yesterday,
Speaker 1: I did a I did just a solo, and the
Speaker 1: amount of times I've done it just me where I
Speaker 1: think I might spend four hours thinking about what door
Speaker 1: can I open that I haven't opened, or at least
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to bore me. I don't
Speaker 1: want to bore our listeners. And what can I give
Speaker 1: that's like a bit different or it's valuable or.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: What was I can't even remember what I spoke about
Speaker 1: today in today's episode, but yeah, it was just quite different.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I like this, and there I often
Speaker 1: start where now especially I go, look, I don't know
Speaker 1: the answers. I'm about to have a conversation about shit
Speaker 1: that I'm not totally sure about, but I'm interested and
Speaker 1: I'm curious, and I go, so, this is what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. This is what I think. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you think, but this is what I think. And
Speaker 1: I think that that kind of approach for many people
Speaker 1: that more conversational think out loud. I think that works
Speaker 1: for people, yeah, rather than the daily tutorial, you know.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I love it. I actually listen. I hadn't
Speaker 2: listened to Joe Rogan for a long time and I
Speaker 2: listened recently, and that was what I loved about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that idea of I
Speaker 1: feel and with Rogan, he does, love him or hate him,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And he has guests that I'm like, I'm out.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he says stuff I'm like, nah, disagree sometimes like
Speaker 1: that's funny. But I just I like the idea of
Speaker 1: just listening to a real conversation. And if you don't
Speaker 1: think that those conversations are real, you haven't listened to him,
Speaker 1: because you know there are. It is just you cannot
Speaker 1: script or rehearse that because they're so fucking long. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean three, three and a half four. There was
Speaker 1: one I listened to one. It was five hours. It's
Speaker 1: a five hour podcast and he's done over two thousand
Speaker 1: of them, you know, And it's sometimes it's rambling sometimes
Speaker 1: and for me, I'm just walking sometimes and I've just
Speaker 1: got these blokes chatting in the background, or this bloke
Speaker 1: and some lady chatting in the background. So anyway, love
Speaker 1: you everyone. Thanks for hanging around, Tiff, it's been terrific.
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye a fair but thank you
Speaker 2: Thanks Harbs, thanks everyone,