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Speaker 1: I get our to him, I hope you're bloody terrific,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another installment, and that you project. And when

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Speaker 1: I say that, you project kind of So as you know,

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Speaker 1: I go on other podcasts and sometimes I do an

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Speaker 1: interview or have a conversation with someone else on their show.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoy it. I think it's high value conversation,

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Speaker 1: and so with their permission, we kindly do what's called

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Speaker 1: a co share, and that happens both ways. Sometimes people

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Speaker 1: are on my show, I interview them, and then they

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Speaker 1: take that episode back to their show for want of

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Speaker 1: a better term, and then they share that with audience.

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Speaker 1: We call that a co share. So recently, with all

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Speaker 1: that in mind, recently I was on Andrew May's podcast

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Speaker 1: which is called Performance Intelligence, the Performance Intelligence Podcast, and

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Speaker 1: here's a bloody gun. He's a slightly better version of me.

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Speaker 1: I'm being honest. Maybe I guess, I'll let you decide,

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he's brilliant. Loved him him, loved our conversation.

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Speaker 1: And because of that, look, there will also be if

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Speaker 1: you're very familiar with me and my stuff, there'll be

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Speaker 1: a fair bit of familiarity about the conversation. So feel

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Speaker 1: free to have a bit of a squizze and see

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Speaker 1: whether or not you want to keep going. You might

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Speaker 1: not want to because there'll be some repetition, but we

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Speaker 1: do cover new ground. He's a good interviewer. He also

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Speaker 1: shares his own thoughts and ideas which are really worth

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Speaker 1: listening to. But before you listen to it, I want

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Speaker 1: to tell you that next weekend, as I'm recording this

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Speaker 1: and recording this Sunday to be up Monday, So next

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Speaker 1: weekend being August the eighteenth, I'm going to be in

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Speaker 1: Bendigo doing my Understanding You workshop. Understanding You it's brand

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Speaker 1: new workshop, new content, a bit of old stuff but

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Speaker 1: of new stuff, bit of a synthesis of both, bit

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Speaker 1: of convergence of the old and newer, bit of fun,

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Speaker 1: a bit of storytelling, a bit of science, a bit

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Speaker 1: of my PhD, a bit of research, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of interaction. It is called Understanding You. It's three our workshop.

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Speaker 1: You can book in via my site Craigharpa dot net. Also,

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Speaker 1: so that's next next week Sunday the eighteenth, same workshop

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Speaker 1: happening in melbs on September eighth. September eight happening in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: Also go to my website, if you want to have

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Speaker 1: a look, if you want a book, if you want

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Speaker 1: to get involved. But without further ado, Andrew may me

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Speaker 1: you us it ready, steady go. I say, put up

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Speaker 1: your hand if you've ever heard your voice on audio recording,

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Speaker 1: and everybody goes, oh god, oh my god. Then I

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Speaker 1: go all right, hands down, Now put your hand back

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Speaker 1: up if you think you sound like shits, And every

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Speaker 1: hand goes up, and I go, well, the bad news

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Speaker 1: is that's how we hear you all the time. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And then you say, well, what's more in your life

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Speaker 1: or your house? And people go, what a stupid question? Well,

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Speaker 1: of course my life.

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Speaker 2: What question.

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Speaker 1: You spent a year designing your house, but you won't

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Speaker 1: spend a week designing your optimal life, you know, And

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Speaker 1: again not trying to be critical, but just you know,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. None of us are going to accidentally

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Speaker 1: end up succeeding. Letting people see your metaphoric wartz is cool,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's it's the space between persona and person persona.

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Speaker 1: This is me, hey who and this is me? This

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Speaker 1: is me just talking sharing, And I think there's always

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Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of something performative because

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a performer, like I love fucking

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Speaker 1: making people laugh, I love telling stories. But then woven

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Speaker 1: through that is vulnerability and a bit of pain and

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Speaker 1: a bit of embarrassing stuff, and a real insight into

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Speaker 1: a real human experience that isn't all shiny and beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Optimized performance through adapting your physical, psychological, and emotional states.

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Speaker 2: Craig Harper is obsessed with human behavior, and over the

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Speaker 2: past four decades he has worn multiple hats including exercise scientists,

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Speaker 2: personal trainer, corporate speaker, university lecturer, AFL strength and conditioning coach,

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Speaker 2: business owner, and self proclaimed bogan. Harps his host of

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Speaker 2: the wildly successful podcast The You Project, and he is

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Speaker 2: a true jack of all trades speaker, author, podcast entrepreneur, scientist,

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Speaker 2: and PhD candidate. His PhD is about how others experience you,

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Speaker 2: diving into principles including meta cognition, theory of mind, meta perception,

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Speaker 2: and meta accuracy. And today we've tracked the big man

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Speaker 2: down to explore the practical applications of his research in

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Speaker 2: our everyday lives. Craig Harper, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hi buddy, that was nice. You've done a little bit

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Speaker 1: of writing and prep look at you like a grown up.

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Speaker 2: It wanted to do a different intro from the normal

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Speaker 2: one that everyone gets off your website. Hey, we had

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Speaker 2: a lovely conversation a couple of weeks ago, you me

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Speaker 2: Tiff on the You project, and that stimulated to have

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Speaker 2: this discussion where at the end we said, hey, let's

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Speaker 2: get you on performance intelligence podcasts. But I love that

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Speaker 2: chat we had made around purpose, passion, and also talking

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Speaker 2: about all other things starting with pe potential.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I really loved it. And I've people

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Speaker 1: maybe who don't do what we do, who don't do

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Speaker 1: podcasts and stuff, might not realize how fun this is.

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Speaker 1: Like for me a really busy day yesterday. I got

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Speaker 1: up this morning and I wasn't too I knew that

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Speaker 1: I was talking to you today. At some stage I

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Speaker 1: looked at my diary and I went, oh, awesome, because

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Speaker 1: that's for me. It's a fun hour. There's nothing about

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Speaker 1: this that's like work. And like I'm genuinely I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty, like you said, four decades. I've been doing

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Speaker 1: a version of this for ever, learning, growing, being the student,

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Speaker 1: being the teacher, being the coach, you know, fucking up,

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Speaker 1: getting up, falling down, winning, losing, failing, succeeding, all that

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Speaker 1: normal human stuff, and I'm just as excited as ever.

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Speaker 1: Like genuinely, I love human potential. I love trying to

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Speaker 1: understand who we are, how we are, and why we

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Speaker 1: are the way we are.

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Speaker 2: So and it shows see you again. It shows in

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Speaker 2: your podcasting. And it's nice now me being the podcast

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Speaker 2: and interviewing you the talent rough frame, because I know

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Speaker 2: you're you say that your free range, loose, unscripted, I

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Speaker 2: call bullshit. You're much more than the former fat kid

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Speaker 2: from Mawi. I've said this to you, and you get

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Speaker 2: a little smile, the little lips light up. You know

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Speaker 2: where I'm going. You've done forty years of research, mate,

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Speaker 2: so you've done a bit of prep. So a rough frame.

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Speaker 2: I'm really curious why did you choose the topic of

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Speaker 2: how other people experience you? I want to pull on

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Speaker 2: that thread. Is there a story or stories that lead

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Speaker 2: to that. I've never heard you talk about that, so

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. When I started my PhD, I started looking

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Speaker 2: at motivation. So what often happens with a PhD, especially

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Speaker 2: in psych, is that people will start and then a

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Speaker 2: month or two or three or four in they're like,

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Speaker 2: this is this is going to be a big problem,

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Speaker 2: like a bigger than big problem, or there's you know,

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Speaker 2: this is there's too much already done. Or you come

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Speaker 2: to a realization and you take a slight left turn,

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Speaker 2: or you do a one ad I did a one eighty.

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Speaker 2: So I was looking at motivation, the role of motivation

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Speaker 2: in creating you know, change, and you know all that

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Speaker 2: kind of general stuff. But there's just a huge amount

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Speaker 2: of divergence and ambiguity around the concept of motivation in psychology,

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Speaker 2: and it was probably going to be really messy and

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Speaker 2: so not that long in probably three months in I

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Speaker 2: changed tact And so, as you said in the intro,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at a thing called, colloquially we would call

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Speaker 2: it the you experience, which is you the listener, you

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Speaker 2: who are listening, your ability to understand what it is

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Speaker 2: like for other people to be around you, which we

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Speaker 2: call metaperception, and then how good you are at that

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Speaker 2: we call that meta accuracy. So the genesis for that

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Speaker 2: was lots and lots of conversations with leaders and bosses and.

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Speaker 1: Managers and coaches who really had no idea what it

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Speaker 1: was like for their tribe, their team their group to

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Speaker 1: be around them, and I thought that was fascinating. And

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Speaker 1: their understanding of themselves for the group was not the

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Speaker 1: groups I'm understanding. There was a lot of divergence, right,

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of separation in the perspectives. And

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Speaker 1: the bottom line was, you know that there were some

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Speaker 1: bosses who were in some ways really good, great business skills, knowledge,

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Speaker 1: you know, like high IQ, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: they couldn't build rapport, connection, trust, respect because they really

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Speaker 1: didn't know how the group saw them or perceived or

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Speaker 1: processed them. And maybe even more importantly, they didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to care. And I was always curious about that. Where

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Speaker 1: I would go into I would get called in to

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Speaker 1: do some work with a company, and you know the

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Speaker 1: kind of the directive wash that's you know, the culture

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Speaker 1: is not great, communications not great. It's just not it's

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Speaker 1: not a great energy or environment to be and could

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Speaker 1: you come and kind of do your thing. So I

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Speaker 1: would talk to a few people, and then I would

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Speaker 1: often talk to the boss and I'm like, I found

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Speaker 1: the problem that's up in this office. It's this office

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Speaker 1: up here in the corner. Here's the problem that bell

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Speaker 1: end of the corner. Oh, it's you, there's the problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Brian or Sally up in the corner office, right so,

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Speaker 1: and that you know, just that, and nobody's trying to

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Speaker 1: be you know, difficult, that's nobody's goal. And yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that just opened the.

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Speaker 2: Door for me.

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Speaker 1: Mate. I didn't even know what it was called, but

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Speaker 1: I used to say to these people, what do you

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Speaker 1: think it's like being around you? And honestly, most of

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Speaker 1: them are never deeply thought about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or some's in total disconnect. It's frickin awesome because

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Speaker 2: I'm the CEO c sweet, so everyone must have a

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Speaker 2: great time when they spend time with me. You go, actually, mate,

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Speaker 2: you're a bit of a wanker, do you know that?

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Speaker 2: How would you frame that? Is your research helping you

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Speaker 2: not just understand it, but how to communicate that to

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Speaker 2: Brian in the corner office, who's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: nolburn disconnect between everyone else.

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Speaker 1: Look, I mean the responses range from oh fucking hell,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting, I've never really thought about it, and then

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Speaker 1: there's a bit of for some of them, there's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a light bulb and a moment of self awareness,

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Speaker 1: and it's really the beginning of something, and like you said,

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Speaker 1: almost at the opposite end of the scale is well,

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Speaker 1: I don't really care. I'm not here to make friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're here, they're paid to do a job.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to tell them what to do. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of that. And I'm like, well, yes and no,

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Speaker 1: but you're not employing robots. You're employing humans with emotions

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Speaker 1: and feelings and you know, beliefs and values and expectations

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Speaker 1: and a need to be respected and valued and all

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Speaker 1: of those things. And so the responses were really varied.

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Speaker 1: But these days, like we were chatting before we pressed

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Speaker 1: the go button, yesda. I did two gigs with two

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Speaker 1: different groups, two corporate groups, and I talk about this

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Speaker 1: a bit as part of my presentations, depending on the

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Speaker 1: focus of the presentation. Of course, one of those was

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Speaker 1: a one hour keynote. One was a two hour workshop.

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Speaker 1: But most people are like, oh wow, that's actually that's

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Speaker 1: actually really interesting. And the way that I open the

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Speaker 1: door and get people to have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an insight is I say, put up your hand if

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Speaker 1: you've ever heard your voice on audio recording, And everybody goes.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, oh my god, and I go all.

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Speaker 1: Right, hand down, now put your hand back up if

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Speaker 1: you think you sound like shit, and every hand goes up,

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Speaker 1: and I go, well, the bad news is that's how

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Speaker 1: we hear you all the time. And it just gives

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Speaker 1: people a little bit of an analogy, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a you know, it's like, oh really, I go, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the version or that's the audible version of

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Speaker 1: you that we get. So that's kind of a sample

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Speaker 1: or an example for you of you know, the distance

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Speaker 1: between your version and our version of you. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: it's just it's a tipping off point, and it's I

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Speaker 1: think also point out that it's not something to be

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Speaker 1: worried about, but rather curious about. Like we're not talking about,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, do they like me? We're not talking

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Speaker 1: about insecurity or fear or self loathing. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: if I can understand their version of me, then perhaps

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Speaker 1: I can build rapport on connection and we can work

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Speaker 1: better together. We can be a better team, we can

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Speaker 1: resolve conflict quicker, we can create better, we can solve

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Speaker 1: problems better, you know. So it's it's really about trying

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Speaker 1: to create positive interpersonal and professional outcomes.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump into the research and some of your

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Speaker 2: findings because I know you've got this self awareness pyramid,

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Speaker 2: which I love. I heard you in the Irish Lad

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Speaker 2: Paul Taylor. It's hard to have sort of audio subscriptions,

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Speaker 2: isn't When you're talking to the Irish Lad.

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Speaker 1: He is I've known him for a while, but yeah

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Speaker 1: he does, and especially when he talks fast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, good man, Pete. But a question I've got

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Speaker 2: for you. You've got a story of you've got a

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Speaker 2: recollection of where you have shown up differently, and then

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Speaker 2: you've got feedback down the track and you went, oh shit,

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Speaker 2: really is that what they thought? And I'll give you one.

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Speaker 2: I've had to give you some time to think of. One.

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Speaker 2: Sold a previous business to KPMG when in there as

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Speaker 2: a partner, which means foreigner. When you're a lateral higher,

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Speaker 2: I had no idea about risk compliance, stakeholder engagement. And

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Speaker 2: there's five hundred other partners that all have their hands

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Speaker 2: on the ship as well. And I had an amazing

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Speaker 2: coach who work with me, and she said, Andrew, you're

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Speaker 2: used to being a fighter pilot and everyone is around

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Speaker 2: you putting the fuel in right, go off the ship

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Speaker 2: out and the sea. You told when to take off

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Speaker 2: when to land, and everyone's doing everything for you. Now,

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Speaker 2: Jill said, you're flying at a three eighty and there's

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Speaker 2: five hundred other people you need to share the controls with,

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Speaker 2: and you come across as being too fast paced, sometimes

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Speaker 2: not listening, do your own thing, and a little bit selfish.

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Speaker 2: And I went fuck Jesus because I wouldn't have thought

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Speaker 2: I was selfish. I wouldn't have thought that I was

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Speaker 2: too fast. But my skill set Harps had been so trained,

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Speaker 2: and you've worked on running a small business and being

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Speaker 2: a keynote speaker. Were you're talking at not talking too

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Speaker 2: The perception I had on other people's experience with me

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Speaker 2: wasn't exactly the same. And then the team I had

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Speaker 2: as well, we did a proper three sixty, not a

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Speaker 2: three sixty when you own it and hey, what do

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Speaker 2: you think of me? We'll go out to lunch after,

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Speaker 2: but a proper independent three sixty. I've got similar feedback

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Speaker 2: that people said they liked me, they saw the passion,

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Speaker 2: but I was too pushy, and that it was very

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Speaker 2: much we're doing it this way, jump on or jump off. Also,

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Speaker 2: that had been strengthened by sport. You've worked in sport

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Speaker 2: you don't actually coach in sport. You tell because you've

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Speaker 2: got a whole bunch of men and women to make

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Speaker 2: the team and they're highly competitive. So that was a

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Speaker 2: slab for me. It was like a big wet fish

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Speaker 2: across the face harps where it's like, God, I think

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Speaker 2: I can communicate, and I pride myself on being caring

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Speaker 2: and collegiate, but I'm coming across to some people as

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Speaker 2: a bit of a knob shit and it hurt. The

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Speaker 2: feedback hurt.

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Speaker 1: I can understand that. But if it's true that it's

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Speaker 1: better that you know it, that I know it, that

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Speaker 1: we know it.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Also, your intention, albeit good, your intention will not always

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Speaker 1: be someone else's experience true. Right, So my intention might be, hey, mate,

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Speaker 1: I want to give you know, we finished this, we

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Speaker 1: wrap it up, and I want to say, hey, you're

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Speaker 1: doing a great job, but can I just share a

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Speaker 1: couple of thoughts with you? Right? And then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you're like, fuck your thoughts, I don't want

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Speaker 1: your thoughts. Fuck you what now I might and by

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm not going to do that. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even think of it because you do a great job.

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Speaker 1: But in this hypothetical. My intentions are good. I want

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Speaker 1: to help you build a better business and brand and

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Speaker 1: podcasts and give all that. Right, So my intention in

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Speaker 1: this hypothetical might be good, but your experience might be

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Speaker 1: why is he criticizing me? Why is he blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: So positive intention, negative experience happens all the time. So

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Speaker 1: that's the first problem that's happening constantly in business and

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Speaker 1: various organizations. The second problem is that the boss or

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Speaker 1: the leader or the coach doesn't know that it's happening

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Speaker 1: because they just assume that other people think like them.

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Speaker 1: There's this I don't know if we spoke about it

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Speaker 1: last week, but there's a thing in psychology called false

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Speaker 1: consensus effect.

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Speaker 2: Did we speak about that? No, we didn't, so I've

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Speaker 2: heard you talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Jot that down. So that just means that we, without

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, we kind of assume that people think

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Speaker 1: like us. So false consensus effect, right, And the truth

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Speaker 1: is that the only person in the world who thinks

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Speaker 1: like Craig Harper all the time is Craig Harper. And

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Speaker 1: so I would be silly to assume that what means

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Speaker 1: ABC for me means ABC for Andrew and the listeners,

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Speaker 1: And so I am constantly at least aware of this

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Speaker 1: idea of how do I share this thought, this idea,

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Speaker 1: this message in a way that connects optimally with Andrew

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Speaker 1: or with Andrew's audience. How do I do that? What

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Speaker 1: does that look like? Because I'm not talking to me,

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Speaker 1: And back to that thing of you know, I can't

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Speaker 1: be objective about me because I am me, so in

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Speaker 1: a way, I care more about what you think of

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Speaker 1: my speaking skills than what I think because you're more

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Speaker 1: representative of the audience than I am, because you're an

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Speaker 1: outsider looking in. I'm it. So this idea of and

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Speaker 1: some of the things that we need to own up

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Speaker 1: to and think about we don't like owning up to

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Speaker 1: and thinking about because it means, you know, I've got

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Speaker 1: a like you. Oh well, maybe I am selfish or

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Speaker 1: maybe I am or.

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Speaker 2: That was the big one for me, and it was

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Speaker 2: part of my evolution from being x in external exogenous

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Speaker 2: other people giving feedback, which is part self esteem or

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Speaker 2: low self esteem part again, just you get so used

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Speaker 2: to the external validation and you don't maybe sit and

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Speaker 2: reflect what does it mean to me? It was a

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Speaker 2: huge pivotal point and just piecing it together as I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to you. Not long after that, about a year

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Speaker 2: eighteen months, I did a deep dive on purpose because

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Speaker 2: it started to open that Oh, okay, what is this about?

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Speaker 2: How do I get that nice blend between X? And

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't have done the two gigs yesterday, You wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have one of Australia is in podcast if you didn't

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Speaker 2: have people connecting with your message, following and liking. So

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Speaker 2: you do need that, but you got to marry that.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's that authenticity. I see, you've got

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Speaker 2: you rock up, You're comfortable who you are. Hey, take

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Speaker 2: it or leave it, this is me. But you've got

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Speaker 2: that nice dance between the two. So it's inner and

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Speaker 2: there's a real drive and purpose and connection. But you're

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Speaker 2: connecting with others. So back to that question. Have you

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Speaker 2: had an experience like me where you thought you were

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Speaker 2: showing up in one way and you got feedback that

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Speaker 2: was really disconnected to how you thought you were connecting

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Speaker 2: or showing up. Yeah, many times.

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Speaker 1: But the one that is the standout for me, which

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Speaker 1: was the stepping off point for having this other awareness,

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Speaker 1: was when I back in the day, I used to

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Speaker 1: lecture what in Victoria called vic FIT courses, so teaching

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Speaker 1: CIRT threeand cert for would be personal trainers and gym instructors.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasonably consistent bits of feedback that

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Speaker 1: came in with the feedback ORMs that all their students

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Speaker 1: would fill out is that, you know, mostly Craig's not terrible.

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Speaker 1: We like him, he's a bit funny, he's done. But

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Speaker 1: probably about one in ten said something like he's intimidating.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, who fucking said that? What are their names?

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Speaker 1: Where are they give me their addresses?

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Speaker 2: You know, you stand up the front of the class

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Speaker 2: next time. All right, some of you fucking bastards have

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Speaker 2: said I'm intimidating, stand up, stand up right now, get

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Speaker 2: up here, And I'm like, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know what anyone means. But it was, of course,

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Speaker 1: of course it was. They had every right to say that,

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Speaker 1: and clearly for a percentage of the people I was.

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Speaker 2: And just for context for people listening to this, and

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Speaker 2: you can follow this on YouTube now as well, the

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Speaker 2: Performance Intelligence podcast. So I did there, mate, just got

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Speaker 2: a nice little YouTube lug. But when I first met you, gosh,

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Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, you were seriously jacked. So you

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Speaker 2: were you were the gym Jim junkie, right. You owned

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Speaker 2: Australia's biggest I think Southern Hemisphere is the biggest personal

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Speaker 2: training studio. So you were the weights guy like you.

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Speaker 2: You had biceps on biceps, So I'm imagining back then

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Speaker 2: you'd have your happy pants, you weightlifted pants. You'd have

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Speaker 2: your boots or you know, shoes are tight T shirt

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Speaker 2: that's probably a couple of sizes too short because you

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Speaker 2: got the pecks and got the delts, so physically you

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Speaker 2: would have been quite intimidating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I probably was. I was probably well

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Speaker 1: put in context on five five ten ish and I'm

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Speaker 1: now I'm about eighty five kilos. Then I was probably

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and five and maybe leaner than I

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Speaker 1: am now, so muscles on my eyelids and all of that,

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Speaker 1: and probably mildly happy with myself if I'm being self

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Speaker 1: aware and all of that. But I didn't, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't my intention, Like nothing in me had that

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Speaker 1: as a goal to be intimidating. But I mean the

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Speaker 1: bottom line was that I was to some people, and

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Speaker 1: so I had to I had to think about that.

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Speaker 1: I had to lean into that and try to understand

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Speaker 1: what I was doing and how I was being that

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Speaker 1: created that impact or effect for some And of course

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Speaker 1: you can't control everyone's response. But you know that was

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Speaker 1: good for me because and since then I've kind of like,

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Speaker 1: I realize that I am, even forty years later, I'm

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Speaker 1: a work in progress. I'm I get trapped an ego,

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Speaker 1: I'm insecure at times, I have imposter syndrome at times,

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Speaker 1: still all of those normal human things. But I think

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Speaker 1: what is you know, what is good is somebody in

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Speaker 1: your position who you are a leader, you have followers,

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Speaker 1: you have you stand in front of groups. So do

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Speaker 1: I all of this? But I think when you genuinely,

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Speaker 1: not disingenuously, but when you genuinely talk about your own

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Speaker 1: bullshit and your own fuck ups, and your own idiosyncrasies,

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Speaker 1: and your own insecurity and your own fear, while also

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Speaker 1: sharing some strategies and stories and techniques that might help

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Speaker 1: people think do be better. People value that more and

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Speaker 1: trust you more because you're not some fucking guru pontificating

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Speaker 1: from a stage who's living this flawless, perfect existence, in

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Speaker 1: this perfect marriage with these perfect fucking genetics. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's some I can't start. That's and so for me,

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of similar models to this, but

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Speaker 1: I put people into kind of all our different cells

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Speaker 1: into five categories. The first is public you. These are

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Speaker 1: self explanatory, then personal you, then private you, then secret you,

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Speaker 1: then future you the you that you want to be

430
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: so personal public you is the one that everyone sees.

431
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: There's no real filter. You know, you're not you kind

432
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: of You'll let that version of you connect with the world,

433
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: and the world see that version of you. Then there's

434
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of personal you, which is more you know, family friends,

435
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: maybe five to ten people get personal you. And then

436
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: private you might be your partner or your mum, or

437
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: your sister or somebody one or two maybe that are

438
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: very close and pretty much know everything. Then secret you

439
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: that's just you. That's the shit that you're telling no one,

440
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: the feelings that you're sharing that insecurity that you. And

441
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: then future you is or potential you is who I

442
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: might want to be and who I might want to become.

443
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: And I try as much as possible to share private

444
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: me with the world, like the stuff that most people

445
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't the stuff that I'm genuinely scared of. The stuff

446
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: that I think I might do well or poorly, my

447
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: own insecurity, my own you know, the space between my

448
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: values and my behavior. Am I a great role model?

449
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: No?

450
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: Should you be like me? No? But I'll you know,

451
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: I try to be less performative than I used to be.

452
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: You know, I know that, see you, And I know

453
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: this right as a speaker, and people who don't do

454
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: this job might not think about this, But as a speaker,

455
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: I know that I've got pretty good skills. I've got

456
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: lots of miles on the clock, a pretty good situational

457
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: and social and public awareness in that context, and I

458
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: know that I can walk out on a stage do

459
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: my job forty five minutes, sixty minutes, bibbity bobbedy boo skills,

460
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Tell the stories, you know, share the messages.

461
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: Thanks very much. I'm Craig Harper. You're all fucking awesome. Yeah,

462
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: there's that, and that ain't terrible, but for me, that's

463
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: more choreograph, scripted and performative. But the stuff that blows

464
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: me away and people away, and it's not about Craig Harper,

465
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 1: but is when you get beyond that show and you

466
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: start to create a level of emotional, psychological, sociological, maybe

467
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: even who knows, spiritual connection that's got nothing to do

468
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: with any performance or script or plan. You're just raw,

469
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: and you're just in the moment. And you know, I

470
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: don't not that they're bad, but I don't use videos

471
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: or slides or I just get up and see where

472
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: we go. And sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's it's fucking amazing.

473
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: And as you and I have said before, the amazing's

474
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: got nothing to do with me. I'm just a conduit

475
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: to the amazing. And when that sounds like bullshit and

476
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: people go, eh, but there's stuff that's happened in my

477
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: own workshops and seminars that I can't even explain, but

478
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: something happens.

479
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for context, you said this before we went on.

480
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: You're still banging out about one hundred presentations a year,

481
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: so you're not like one of those people that does

482
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: two keynotes and has all over their website International Keynotes

483
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: speaker as seen on the stage back in nineteen eighty

484
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: four when we both have down, so you're doing a

485
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: lot up. Couple of things. One is it's this awareness

486
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: when you move from denial and say that river floating

487
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: in Egypt. So I was in denial about some of

488
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 2: those habits and behaviors often linked to not low self esteem,

489
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: but absolutely not confidence where you can be there in

490
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: your own skin. So that was a big shift for me.

491
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: And I can hear that's happened with you from the

492
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: VIC fit and other examples. But when I listen to

493
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: you and I catch up with you, I've seen you

494
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: present a few times as well. You're really authentic. There

495
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: would be a bunch of people here listening who are

496
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: shit scared going I can't let people know the private me. God,

497
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: I'm not going there, let alone the personal mate, because

498
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: I've been taught my leaders said, all right, young fella,

499
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: young lady, when you turn up, leave your shoes and

500
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: your personality at the door. And when you're working for

501
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: this bank, consulting firm, telco, insert government organization, you've got

502
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: to be the job description of the role. We don't

503
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: want your personal shit. Now that's changed a lot, thank goodness.

504
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: But it's authentic authenticity rather than the hey, now, let

505
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: me be authentic with you. I don't think i've shared

506
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: this story with you. A guy that I used to

507
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: work with, lovely guy. It leads a big and he said, Mazie,

508
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: can you come and watch me speak. I'm speaking at

509
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: our open forum town hall, and I want you to

510
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: help me because you do good speaking and stuff. So

511
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: I'm watching him and he started a bit nervous, a

512
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: bit dry, and then he opened his arms and I

513
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: think he'd listened to Brene Brown. He said, now, let

514
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: me be authentic with you, and I felt like, so,

515
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: now let me kick you in the balls. God, don't

516
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: say to people, let me be authentic. You be authentic.

517
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: You do authentic. I see you do that beautifully. I

518
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: see some people now they do it, and I feel

519
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: like I need a shower.

520
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: Well, if it's choreographed, it's not fucking authentic. So it's like,

521
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, fake authenticity. And I think letting people see

522
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: your your metaphoric wartz is cool. You know. It's the

523
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: space between persona and person you know, persona, this is me,

524
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: hey who? And this is me this is me just

525
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: talking sharing, And I think, look, if we're well, if

526
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: I'm honest, there's always going to be a little bit

527
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: of something performative because I'm a bit of a performer.

528
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: Like I love fucking making people laugh. I love telling stories.

529
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: I love manipulating the crowd in a good way, you know.

530
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: But then woven through that is vulnerability and a bit

531
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: of pain and a bit of embarrassing stuff and a

532
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: real insight into a real human experience that isn't always

533
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: shiny and beautiful. But I think, you know, that's the

534
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: thing of trying to create this synergy and symphony of

535
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: messages and entertainment and connection. Because the other thing, too

536
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: is like what people don't think about. You know. You

537
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: could get on stage, or I could get on stage,

538
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: and we could share what is the most mind blowing

539
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: information of all time, with no nuance, with no story,

540
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: with no peaks and troughs, with no humor, with no

541
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: and not only does it not have a good impact,

542
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: it has a terrible impact in you. And I never

543
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: get any more work.

544
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: You've gotta have a bit of Joe's hands, halps some

545
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: jazz hands. But if you've got too much Jaz's hands,

546
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: you don't get booked to do the jazz. It's like

547
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Right, this porridge is just right,

548
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: and that's it. That's a skill to adapt that to

549
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: an audience as well.

550
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: Well. It's a real challenge because when you start, as

551
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you start, like firstly, when I started,

552
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: I was fucking terrible. It's so bad. But you can't

553
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: get good at what you're not doing right. You can't

554
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: get better at the thing that you won't do, and

555
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: you can't get better at the thing that you won't acknowledge. Hey, Craig,

556
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: you're intimidating. No, I'm not. Fuck off.

557
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Who fucking said right?

558
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: So I can't. I can't get better at being less intimidating,

559
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: or at least trying to, you know, unless I first

560
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: go Okay, cool, thank you. I'm aware now, so I

561
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: need to lean into that. But you know, this whole

562
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: I feel I'd probably sound old when I say this,

563
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: but I feel like a lot of people are very

564
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: impatient now. It's almost like they want ten years worth

565
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: of experience in a year.

566
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: We want a hack, like download it, mate, Can you

567
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: give me the Craig Harper the U Project hack. What

568
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: do you mean You've been spending forty years trial tribulation, triumph,

569
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 2: stuff up, setbacks and you've got this experience, But can

570
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: you give that to me in a download? No, you

571
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: can't get in a download. That's a huge problem I

572
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: see with my kids now, you and I, little Craig,

573
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: little Andrew used to go the library for people listening.

574
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: There's this thing that used to have in councils where

575
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: you'd have books WITHZ They used to have real books

576
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: where you go there and you'd actually you'd put your

577
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: name and you'd wait for a book. But at Glennys

578
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: where I grew up, James Collin, great kid, James, real nerd,

579
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: but he was always the first to get the book.

580
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: So harps. I'd have to wait two weeks to do

581
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: my geography assignment. Can you imagine saying that to a kid, Now,

582
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: wait two weeks until you go get the books? They go, No,

583
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: I was just downloaded off the internet. So that's part societal.

584
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do some coaching with a guy, a young

585
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: guy called Brad who's a jiu jitsu black belt, And

586
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: arguably jiu jitsu is the hardest martial art in the

587
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: world to get a black belt, and it takes if

588
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: you're consistent and you start today and you've got some talent,

589
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: it'll take you about ten years. Right, So it's not

590
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: one of these martial arts where you start on Monday

591
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: and by Wednesday week. You're a black belt, right, And

592
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: I was talking to him about I said to him,

593
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: if I started now, when would I get my black belt?

594
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: If I went three four days a week and I'm

595
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: sixty You said, well, you might never get it. Let's

596
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: say that. I'm like, okay, thank you. And then he said,

597
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: but oh, probably, you know, if your body didn't fall

598
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: apart ten to fifteen years. I'm like, fuck, really, It's

599
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah. And that's the thing, and that's why

600
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: they're held in really high regard. He's a second or

601
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: third dan black belt. They've earned it. It took him,

602
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: and he's good at it. It took him a decade

603
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: to get his black belt, right, and he's good. He's

604
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: a natural. But this is the thing, is that whatever

605
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: we do, whatever we're doing for the first time, we're

606
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: a white belt, and the journey of getting you know,

607
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: metaphorically strangled and choked and tapped and kicked in the

608
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: dick and punched in the face and all of those things.

609
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: You know, this is the journey. And also not only

610
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: is that the journey, that's the practical reality of becoming

611
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: good or mastery or high performance or human optimization or

612
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: whatever you want. To call it. But not only is

613
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: the outcome then worth it, it's the journey that is

614
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: the real value because the journey changes you. You know the

615
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: thing that we the thing that we want in our culture,

616
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: which is we want success everybody. Nobody wants to be

617
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: a failure. Of course, success means different things to different people,

618
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: and nobody wants to be a dud. Nobody wants to

619
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: be unhealthy, nobody wants to be broke, nobody wants to

620
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: be unpopular, nobody wants to fail. But also nobody wants

621
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable. Well, guess what if you're not at

622
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: least prepared to get uncomfortable on a semi regular basis

623
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: that growth, that learning, that adaptation, that improvement, that high performance,

624
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: it's unlikely.

625
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 2: And thank goodness, we've got research now around post traumatic growth.

626
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: Because everyone was saying, oh, stress will break you, but

627
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of people that go through high

628
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: levels of stress, even trauma, and they grow and they flourish.

629
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: So we're seeing more research come out of that from

630
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: especially Martin Seligman started that with the US military. Hey

631
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: on the research frame because we could talk stories and experience,

632
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: but there's a real rigor to what you do, which

633
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: I love as well. So you can tell us a

634
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: little bit about the self awareness pyramid, and so is

635
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: that something you've come up with or have you adapted

636
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: Maslow Blooms taxonomy. I'm thinking of a whole bunch of

637
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: other frameworks.

638
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: Look, I could make that. There could be lots of

639
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: different layers to that. I just I developed that. But

640
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: obviously all of those terms are not my terms. It's

641
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: just a way like I kind of developed this simple

642
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: pyramid to get people to understand, you know, my stuff

643
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: quite easily. I've got a really good little graphic that

644
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: I will send you that you might want to use

645
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: that will put them in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway,

646
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: So in this pyramid, at the bottom of the pyramids,

647
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: so there's four levels. The bottom of the pyramid is

648
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: what's called metacognition, which is thinking about thinking. And you know,

649
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: the truth is that most people don't think about how

650
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: they think very often, if at all. They just think

651
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and they believe their thoughts and those thoughts become beliefs.

652
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: And also the idea of thinking about the origin of

653
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: the way that my mind works, like why do I

654
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: think and distill information? And see the world the way

655
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: that I do. What is the lens or what is

656
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: the window through which I view and understand and process

657
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: the world? What are the things that create my windows?

658
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: So like blease, values, ideas, experiences, bias, faith, prejudice, like

659
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: all of those things which we all have to some extent,

660
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: that kind of forms the window through which I view

661
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: the world. So if I'm a you know, I'm a Vegan,

662
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to look at the world a certain way.

663
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: If I'm a Catholic, so too, if I'm a black

664
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: belt in jiu jitsu and some guys coming up to me,

665
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: I might view that quite differently to if I'd never

666
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: done any kind of self defense. And so, you know,

667
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm an only child who grew up in a Catholic family.

668
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: I was a morbidly obese child, I went to only

669
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: Catholic schools. I grew up in rural Victorious. So all

670
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: of these things are variables that shape or inform my thinking.

671
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: So that one of the biggest challenges for us in

672
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: this journey towards what we might call greater self awareness

673
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: or even consciousness, is to become aware of our lack

674
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: of awareness. It's like I become more conscious when I

675
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: read recognize my lack of consciousness, and by that I

676
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: mean the autopilotness of our existence.

677
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: Which is the way we live now. We just wake

678
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: up and we grab the weapon of mass distraction and

679
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: we scroll and we go to meeting after meeting. It

680
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: is groundhog Day. It's such a good metaphor Pensacola fild.

681
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: You just wake up and before you realize you wake up.

682
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: I've heard you say five years later. It's not five

683
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, it's ten, twenty thirty. Jesus.

684
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: I've got to the end of my career and my

685
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: kids are now having kids. I'm not really connected with

686
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: them because I've just been on this conveyor belt for

687
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: years and years. And then it often takes a crisis,

688
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: a relationship breakdown, losing a job, a big life event,

689
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: and that can sometimes shift. But people don't have enough pain,

690
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: so they're comfortably uncomfortable. It's like the just the tapping

691
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: of a wall. You tap, tap, tap, tap. The wall

692
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: doesn't crumble thirty years later, it's one tap and the

693
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: whole jipprop comes tumbling down. That self awareness and just

694
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: flying through life on autopilot.

695
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: So let's summarize that into four or five words. Don't

696
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: wait for the catastrophe. I mean, this is what we do.

697
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: We wait till shit breaks and then we go, oh

698
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: I should get in shape. Oh I should be nicer

699
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: to my wife. Oh I should or whatever it is.

700
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's about being proactive, you know, not reactive,

701
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: and leaning into that a little bit. So that's understanding that,

702
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, we've all been programmed and conditioned and recognizing

703
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: where my programming, my cognitive, behavioral, emotional psychological programming ends

704
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: and where me, Craig Harper, the clean slate, where do

705
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: I start? Who am I beyond that? Like, beyond my

706
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: programming conditioning beliefs and very kind of set ideas and

707
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: ideals and ideology, like who am I beyond that? For me,

708
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: that's a really curious kind of exploration.

709
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: And thoughts are not facts. That's something I find people

710
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: really connect with. And you go, hey, you think the

711
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: way you think, let's talk about thinking about the way

712
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: you think. And you get some really weird looks metacognition,

713
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: what's that shit? I just think, Champ, thoughts are not facts.

714
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: And on your mobile phone, I've asked Wizard this and

715
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: he's on Android, so he said Android had just better.

716
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 2: So there's no answer to this story. But if you're

717
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: an iPhone, you regularly have to do an iOS upgrade.

718
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: And the people harps going through decades on autopilot, they

719
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 2: just wake up their gray They're a monochrome version of gray,

720
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: gray clothes, gray car, gray skin, gray hair, if they've

721
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: got any gray life, because there's no thinking about how

722
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: can I challenge this or what can I upgrade? So

723
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: I love that whole notion of the regular iOS upgrade.

724
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: And you've heard me bang on about this. Do you

725
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: want your body to be stronger, fitter, fast, and more flexible,

726
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: You've got to do reps and sets. It's exactly the

727
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: same with your thinking. Get out of that laziness or

728
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: that comfort zone.

729
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I think it's really difficult at times to be objective

730
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: about the thing you're in the middle of, if not impossible,

731
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: to be objective about the thing that you're in the

732
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: middle of. And what we're all in the middle of

733
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: is our own life, right, and that is why it

734
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: is easy to close your eyes and open them again.

735
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: And it's a year later and you're essentially you've blinked

736
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: and That's why it's very easy to keep doing things

737
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: that don't really work because they're habitual, they're programmed. And

738
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: so this is not an easy idea. This is an

739
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: idea though it's not an easy do. But it's an

740
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: easy idea. It's just a construct. But the idea is

741
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: to find a way to be able to do an

742
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: inventory or a stock take on your own existence. And

743
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: so the question that I ask people, individuals and audiences

744
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: all the time is what's not working? Like, what's the

745
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing that doesn't work. What's the thing

746
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: that you're doing with your body that doesn't work. What's

747
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: the thing that you're doing with your kids you're parenting

748
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: your relationships that doesn't work. What's the thing that you

749
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: do with money that's fun looking stupid, but you still

750
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: keep doing it? Like on Planet you, you are always

751
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: getting data, You're always getting information. Now, the challenge in

752
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: the middle of the mayhem and the chaos that is

753
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: the continuity and the never endingness of our existence, the

754
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: challenge is to be able to hit the metaphoric pause

755
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: button and say, okay, if I continue on my current

756
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: trajectory of habits and thinking, beliefs and behaviors and outcomes.

757
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: If I continue on this trajectory, will my life be

758
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: better or worse than a year, two or five? The

759
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: answer for many of us is worse. Okay, that's not

760
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: self loathing, that's awareness. Now what to do with the awareness? Okay,

761
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: easier said than done. But how do I shift this?

762
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: How do I get out of this groove, this pattern,

763
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: this behavior that is more self sabotaged than self serve?

764
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: How do I do that? And so, you know, we

765
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: think about building a business, our best business or best brand,

766
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: or our best bank balance. You know, even we think

767
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: about how would we build a house if we're starting

768
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: from scratch. You know, you would spend a year designing

769
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: and developing and finding the land and colors and fittings

770
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. But when it comes to building

771
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: our best.

772
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: It's just just on that. You're so right, graphic simulation.

773
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: So you've got all these different designs. What do you

774
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: think we'll go to a different show. We'll go to

775
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: the trade warehouses. People spend hours, days, weeks, months planning

776
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: rebuild of the house which they might be in for

777
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: ten years.

778
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And then you say, well, what's more important

779
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: your life or your house, and people go, what a

780
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: stupid question? Well, of course my life, what house set

781
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: up question? You spent a year designing your house, but

782
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: you won't spend a week designing your optimal life, you know.

783
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: And again not trying to be critical, but just you know,

784
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: here's the thing. None of us are going to accidentally

785
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: end up succeeding. It's so easy to live an unconscious

786
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: groundhog day existence. And it takes courage, and it takes

787
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: effort and energy and probably a bit of discipline, self

788
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: control and discomfort, which are not very sexy things in

789
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. But you know, it's just that's just

790
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: what's required, you know. And I always say I can

791
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: tell you what you want to hear all the truth

792
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: to an audience.

793
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: And I go, what do you want? They're like, oh,

794
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: I guess the truth. That's going to hurt all right.

795
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: So metacognition is the base.

796
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: They metacognition yep. Theory of mind is essentially our ability

797
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: to understand or try to understand or be curious about

798
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: how other people think.

799
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: Which you're not going to get my assumption, unless you

800
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: understand yourself first, then you can understand others so hence

801
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: the framework.

802
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: And also being able to in real time realize that

803
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: Andrew and I are in the same conversation but not

804
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: the same experience. And then with that in mind, what

805
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: is Andrew's experience right now? What is Andrew's version of me?

806
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: What is Andrew's version of our story about this conversation,

807
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: this moment in time? What is his story about this interaction?

808
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: And these are questions that we ask not because we

809
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: necessarily have to agree with the other person or endorse

810
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: the other person, or let's be honest, even like the

811
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: other person, because in some situations we're going to work

812
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: with people we don't really want to. That doesn't make

813
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: us terrible, it makes us human. But the point is

814
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: not to align or connect or endorse or agree, but

815
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: rather to understand, you know, seek first to understand and

816
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: then to be understood. So me trying to understand. And

817
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: I've worked with many people that are so not like me,

818
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: not better or worse, just different. But everything from you know,

819
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 1: the military and Victoria police, to blokes in prison, to addicts,

820
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: to alcoholics, to the general public to people with all

821
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: kinds of abilities and disabilities. And in the middle of that,

822
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand them so I can work

823
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: with them or help them or support them. So that's

824
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: theory of mind.

825
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: I'm going deep at the moment on mindfulness. And I

826
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 2: used to think mindfulness was a crock of shit. I

827
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: think because I'd watched the wrong videos where you have

828
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: this yahwei profit in the modern age, walking in romes

829
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: and just just talking absolute bullshit, making it sound like

830
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: this all encompassing just every part of your life. But

831
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: when you look at the definition of mindfulness, you go

832
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: back to the Japanese samurais two and a half thousand

833
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: years ago. Similar time, Yogis were starting to come up

834
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: with similar principles. It's about being present in the moment

835
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: without judgment. So if you're on your mobile phone scrolling

836
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: all the time, if you're on autopilot through the decades,

837
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: there is no mindfulness. It's the opposite. It's mindlessness, and

838
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 2: it's often driven by distraction. So I'm really curious, have

839
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: you looked at that thread of mindfulness, because as you're

840
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 2: saying a lot of that about both my self awareness

841
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: of that metacognition and then other people just being able

842
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: to drop into that mindful state, being present in the

843
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: moment without judgment. Where does the mindfulness research sit in

844
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: with this?

845
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah? So for me, mindfulness is it's sometimes almost better

846
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: called mindlessness so or mind emptiness, like because in a

847
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: way you're trying to get out of your mind. You're

848
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: trying to get out of thought in a way, you know,

849
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: and to be the kind of the mind fuck no

850
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: pun intended, but is because we're trying to understand the

851
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: mind using the mind as the tool that we're trying

852
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: to understand itself with. Right, It's like I'm analyzing the

853
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: mind with my mind. Oh great, how's that going? But yes,

854
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: I trying to turn down the chaos, trying to be

855
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: the calm in the chaos. That Eastern philosophical construct of

856
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: equanimity is being able to be in the busyness and

857
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: the mayhem, but without being chaotic or without being busy myself,

858
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: you know. And for me that's been a real journey too,

859
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: because my mind is busy, busy mind. Not so much

860
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: an overthinking mind because that tends to be more.

861
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: Feared, but busy creative mind.

862
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: Busy creative, busy, you know, solving problems, coming up with ideas,

863
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: and you know, yesterday on the way back from Sydney

864
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: to Melbourne. I just had my notes open in my phone,

865
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: so just basically writing stuff electronically, and I literally came

866
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: up with about five potential ideas, new ideas for new

867
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: things that I definitely don't have time to do, but

868
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: I just put them with this collection of ideas and

869
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: thoughts that I have that I might, you know, open

870
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: the door on one day.

871
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: Well that's a technique in itself. And my iPhone's got

872
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: multiple notes and layers and folders, and the science behind

873
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 2: this is if you don't distill what's in your mind

874
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: and put it on the paper or put it onto

875
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: your digital format, it just circles around, so you're distracted.

876
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: And it's been like Homer Simpson with the monkey and

877
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: the symbol doing the backflip. So metacognition got it. Theory

878
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: of mine having more of an awareness of others. Then

879
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: we go up the next layer.

880
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: So up the next one, which is what we've already

881
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: covered to some extent, meta perception is what's it like

882
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: being around me? And again this is really this comes

883
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: from a space of or a place of wanting to

884
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: be able to create better interactions with others, to be

885
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: a better leader communicator, teacher, you know, employer, employee, athlete,

886
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: So that whoever it is that I'm interacting with, that

887
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm working alongside, that I can understand or have some

888
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: insight into what it's like being around me, just so

889
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: that we have better communication, we have better apport, we

890
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: have better connection. We can in work situations, you know,

891
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: figure things out, solve problems, resolve conflict, agree to disagree.

892
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: You know.

893
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I've got lots of friends who don't have a lot

894
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: of the same beliefs that I have around certain things,

895
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: But my friendship with them and my love for them

896
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: is not conditional upon them thinking like me. If that

897
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: were the case, I'd be living in an echo chamber

898
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: or confirmation bias we call it, and I'd only pay

899
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: attention to people who sound like me, believe like me,

900
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: and think like me, which would make me one an

901
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: ego maniac and two pretty lonely or essentially a cult member.

902
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think we have a lot

903
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: of cult members on this We might have one or two.

904
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: So majority of this audience aren't in cults and have

905
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: not been a cult member. Well, there are lots of

906
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: cults of thought, though you can identify cultka. You can

907
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: identify a cult of thought online very easy. And like

908
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: the irony is or I guess, and this is true

909
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: for me too. So I'm not saying, hey, I've figured

910
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: this out, nobody else has. I have to be really

911
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: prepared to hold onto my beliefs loosely, because you think

912
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: about beliefs and ideas that they are intertwined with who

913
00:49:54,760 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: we are. Then now my identity is tied in into

914
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: being right about that thing.

915
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: Now, when I truly believe that when it comes to

916
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: this issue or this question or this topic, the thing

917
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: that I think is right, therefore everyone else in the

918
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: world who disagrees with me on this is wrong. That's

919
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: kind of a dangerous position to have. And so like

920
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: I grew up, as we've spoken many times, in a

921
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: very religious household, and subsequent to that went and did

922
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 1: a whole lot of other stuff in a different version

923
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: of the same religion. So I spent a lot of

924
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: my life reading the Bible, being philosophically theological, you know.

925
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: And so I have a very specific background and training

926
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: and programming and over the years, relationships and all of

927
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: this stuff that I was fully immersed in, and now

928
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: all of these years later, what I have to what

929
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: I have to say anyway, based on how I now

930
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: see the world and see myself in the world. That

931
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: truth is I don't know, like and people don't like

932
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: saying I don't know. But is there a God? I

933
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: don't know? Is there is there a you know, eternity

934
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: as we understand it in the Christian sense? I don't know.

935
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: Is the Bible, you know, really the inspired word of God?

936
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I can think things and believe things.

937
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: But also I have to be courageous and say this

938
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: is what I think, This is even what I believe.

939
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: But could I be wrong? Yes, I could be Could

940
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: I be wrong? Yeap?

941
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: What did they let you into the monastery saying fucking

942
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: your sermon?

943
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing?

944
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: Did you swear back then? Because you dropped the F

945
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: bomb a lot? And I even noticed on the podcast

946
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: I did with you, yes, like my my fuck ratio

947
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 2: went up. Yeah, of course, Now you need to listen

948
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 2: to the background to that. If Wizard of You just

949
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: do a bite size my fuck ratio went up, that

950
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: that might go off on the internet. But because like

951
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: it's just you's being authentic, So I can't imagine you

952
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: were swearing at that age.

953
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: No, so I so this is nobody needs to know this,

954
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: but Catholic Church. And I always, I don't know if

955
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: I ever told you this, but I always I had

956
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: all of these people coming into my life constantly telling

957
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: me that. And this is not even from within my circle.

958
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: But God's got his hand on your life, whatever that means.

959
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: God's got a purpose for you all these things. Anyway,

960
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: through a range of really kind of weird and wacky

961
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in weird and whacky events, I

962
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: ended up going to what was essentially a fundamental Christian church.

963
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: And you know, I was, for one of a better term,

964
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: balls deep. And I went to that church for about

965
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: four years, and I was nineteen to twenty three, maybe

966
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: five years, four or five years. And honestly, most of

967
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 1: it was good in that I learned about, you know,

968
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: like humility and purpose and a whole lot of things

969
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: that I needed to learn. And you know, I definitely

970
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: didn't master anything, but I I was a pretty good

971
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: student because I was genuinely curious about all of that.

972
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: But one of the byproducts of that is so for

973
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: five years I didn't have sex, I didn't swear I didn't.

974
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: I lived a very monastic, disciplined life.

975
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 2: And that's your late teens, early twenties. That's where people

976
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 2: literally come alive. Hormones are pulsing through your body and

977
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 2: with other people you're around. That's really that passage to adulthood. Yeah.

978
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: Well I was engaged to a woman I never slept with.

979
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend who became my fiance within the church,

980
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,240
Speaker 1: and I was with her. We didn't get married. Obviously,

981
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: I pulled the pin on that, which was, you know,

982
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, but also for her the

983
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: right thing to do. She dodged a bullet. Fuck imagine

984
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: marrying me, but that would have been a nightmare for her.

985
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: So that worked out well. She married somebody and is

986
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: living happily ever after, which is nice. But but for me,

987
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: that was just that was what was required.

988
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: I had no idea about that part of your life.

989
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: Did you do you talk about that normally? That part?

990
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, very very committed. Yeah, yeah whenever. It's just not

991
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: that relevant that often. But my point is that, like

992
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in a very a very specific model

993
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: of thinking and believing and faith and behavior, right, and

994
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: you are programmed, you are programmed you are, you know,

995
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: I chose it all. But at the same time, you

996
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: can't question much because if you you know, like, if

997
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: you question too much, you're out of the group.

998
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: Like it is very mid a line in doctrination.

999
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: Well, it was quite The church I was in was

1000
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: quite culty, right, and so it is very much an

1001
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: echo chamber of thinking and believing. The truth is in cults,

1002
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 1: be they food cults, religious cults, political cults, sporting cults,

1003
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: cults of ideology, any ideology, you are not encouraged to

1004
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: questioned the doctrine. You are discouraged. And not only are

1005
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: you discouraged from thinking critically, you are criticized and you

1006
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: are cast out into the metaphoric darkness. And so this

1007
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: is the problem that I have with any of these

1008
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: ideological cults of thought, is.

1009
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: That one of the reasons if I pull on that thread,

1010
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why you were so passionate about

1011
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: human behavior and connection and people having a voice and

1012
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: diversity because you had that block of life that wasn't

1013
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: Is that something you've reflected on and look back, is that.

1014
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that is true. And there were questions that

1015
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: kept coming up for me in that time which I

1016
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: was told, Well, I'll tell you what I was told.

1017
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: I was told, that's the devil, that's Satan, trying to

1018
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: undermine God in your life and all of these things.

1019
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, well, that kind of But the

1020
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: thing is also what people who are and I'm not

1021
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: saying that there was any sinister or a gender. I'd

1022
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: think all of the people they actually believed it and

1023
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: meant well, right. But you know, there are certain people

1024
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: who can say pretty much anything and back it up biblically.

1025
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: And this might sound weird to some of your listeners,

1026
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: but in certain environments you can make pretty much anything

1027
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: sound reasonable with the right scripture if you're talking to

1028
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: a vulnerable person, you know. And so for me, I

1029
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: wanted to go deeper than just thought. I wanted to

1030
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: open a spiritual door. I wanted to see what was there,

1031
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: what was beyond the cognitive curtain. And the thing is that,

1032
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: you know, this is maybe another day, but you think

1033
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: about when we open that door, and we kind of

1034
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: think about what is and this is getting out of

1035
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: the psychology in the cognition space, of course, but even

1036
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: there is there such a thing as a spiritual world,

1037
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: what does that even mean, and there's so many things

1038
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: that we will experience in a lifetime that don't make

1039
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: sense in inverted commas in psychology, and so we go, well,

1040
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: that's bullshit, that's not real. Maybe maybe it's not real.

1041
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: Maybe it is real, Maybe we just can't understand it

1042
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: with our understanding, with our frame of reference, with our

1043
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: version of what is real and what is not.

1044
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: This is what I love about a podcast, and you've

1045
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 2: taught me this too. I don't rock up. I would

1046
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: get anxiety rocking up with no script. But I've gone

1047
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: from having question one answer question two, which is a

1048
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: bit like a tennis game. I've got a running sheet here,

1049
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 2: and as I said at the start, three sort of

1050
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: loose areas. Number one, why are you so passionate about

1051
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: this topic? Number two, let's dig into the science, and

1052
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: we've done that metacognition at the base theory of mind,

1053
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: metaperception and meta accuracy, and I've got a question on

1054
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: metaccuracy to wrap up. And then three I wanted to

1055
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: talk to you about transitions, but I had no idea.

1056
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: We talk about that, and I understand a lot more

1057
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: about you and what has driven you to do this,

1058
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing all that.

1059
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: I spent a long time studying and reading them. You

1060
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: would not believe how many scriptures I could recite, which

1061
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: nobody needs to hear. But yeah, like I studied it

1062
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: like somebody would study at PhD for years. Every day,

1063
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: pray every day, quiet time every day, read every day,

1064
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: study every day every day.

1065
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: There is a lot of there's a lot of good

1066
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: in prayer and with the Pacific boys. I told you

1067
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: this woman caught up last time. So NRL now is

1068
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: fifty four nearly fifty five Pacific or indigenous, much larger

1069
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: Pacific population. And when I was putting together a framework

1070
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: at the start of the year, so we talk about

1071
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: being in that peak performance zone inverted you if you're

1072
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: feeling a bit tired or fatigued, you add some fire.

1073
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 2: If you're feeling a little bit too revved up, you

1074
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: add some eyes. So I put this nice model together.

1075
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: As you know, working with sporting teams, mate, you've got

1076
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: to have a science base or an evidence base, but

1077
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: keep as simple so the boys and the girls understand that.

1078
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 2: So we're doing all this work around fire and ice,

1079
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: it was really landing. What do you do to up regulate?

1080
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: What do you do to down regulate and then one

1081
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: of the players come up and said, where's prayer. I'm like, ah,

1082
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: how remiss of me. So we've added prayer because prayer

1083
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: can be meditative and it can be calming effect or

1084
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: prayer can be tapping into purpose or a higher power

1085
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: to add a bit of heartbeat and add a bit

1086
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: of fire as well. So just surrounding that out for

1087
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: a lot of people who do listen. Obviously we're talking

1088
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: about extreme, but a lot of people will do prayer.

1089
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: And I say this to a lot of my Pacific boys,

1090
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: they go, I find it hard to meditate or do mindfulness.

1091
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: Do you go to church every Sunday? Yeah, just drop

1092
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: into being present in the moment and connect with your

1093
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: heart rate and just think about other stuff and just

1094
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: be in the moment without judgment. Now, transitions, Do you

1095
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: consciously transition from one thing to the next, Because when

1096
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: I look at your job description, it's pretty similar to mine,

1097
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: and you'll go from a podcast to a meeting about

1098
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: a future project or a book, and then you go

1099
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: to lots of workshops and you've got your hands and

1100
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: lots of different things. Do you have a process where

1101
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: you transition in and transition out because when I look

1102
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: at that model, that whole metaaccuracy, I can't help but

1103
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: think there's something you do either naturally or it's just

1104
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: started the process way way way back to transition and

1105
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: to actually think how do I transition into this group

1106
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: and how do I show up authentically but for what

1107
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: they need.

1108
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have any set transition kind of process,

1109
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: but I be aware. I think about who I'm going

1110
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: to be with and why I'm going to be there,

1111
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: and what I want to do be create in the

1112
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: time that I'm with that person or those people in

1113
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,919
Speaker 1: that situation, like what's my reason for being there? Why

1114
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: do they want me there? You know, as long as

1115
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: I show up knowing why I'm there and what are

1116
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: they Like yesterday I did. I told you I did

1117
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: a real estate industry conference in Manly, and I had

1118
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: basically quite a brief brief so to speak, the organizers,

1119
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: and you know, I could go wherever I wanted as

1120
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: long as I was talking around that subject and I know,

1121
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 1: and then I had a different brief for the gig

1122
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: that I did in the afternoon. But as long as

1123
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: I stay in that in that domain, then I'm okay.

1124
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't have any big kind of

1125
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: preparation process or you know. And I I think, because

1126
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: I've been doing it for so long and talking for

1127
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: so long, I try not to open doors that I'm

1128
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: not really knowledgeable about or qualified in, because it's just

1129
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: if I don't know a fair bit about it or

1130
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: understand it, then I shouldn't be talking about it. But yeah,

1131
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: I do. I find it quite easy to transition from

1132
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: podcasts to speaking gig, to coaching session to you know whatever,

1133
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: because it's for me, it's all just talking.

1134
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 2: Is that? Though I love that model you said before

1135
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: about the public you, the personal you, the private you,

1136
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 2: the secret you, and potential you, I can't but think

1137
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: if someone is very public when they transition from one

1138
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: thing to the next, it is a persona. And I

1139
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: openly say that I have a persona when I'm on

1140
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: a big stage. Got to bring a bit of the

1141
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 2: jazz hands. But I think what you're helping me understand

1142
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: to I love that you to call this episode something

1143
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: like Jazz Hands and metap perception or something Jesus Jazz

1144
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: Hands and five years with no jeers, Jesus Jazz hands

1145
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 2: and a less existence, where I just cracking myself up

1146
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 2: of my own jokes. I'm doing harp jokes on my podcast.

1147
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: You know the other thing about five years with no Jeers,

1148
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: there really was five years with no jeers because the

1149
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: other way that that Jez happens, that wasn't endorsed either.

1150
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: So I think that's a whole different podcast in.

1151
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: It something nobody needs to think about.

1152
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: It waited to almost the sixty minute mark, and people

1153
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 2: are just like, similarly, I just choked on the haven't they.

1154
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 2: Let's go back to what I was talking about.

1155
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: Why have you gone red? That's going on? Do you

1156
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: look so uncomfortable because do you need a glass of

1157
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,479
Speaker 1: water or something?

1158
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 2: You're right, I don't know whether we've sort of gone

1159
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 2: with the secret or private. We're sort of dancing between

1160
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: the two halfs. Love the authenticity, mate, but that public face.

1161
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: Love the authenticity.

1162
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 2: But stopte it's we're talking about self awareness and metacognition.

1163
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: But and you're showing a really good example. It actually

1164
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: is a good example that you you said that before

1165
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: and likes it. Open the window. You go, all right,

1166
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: big fellow, bang here it is no whacking off for

1167
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 2: five years. Take that in your face. You're welcome world.

1168
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 2: But I just see there's there's almost no delineation between

1169
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 2: that for you. So you're showing us even in this conversation.

1170
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 2: And so from an energy shift, you don't need to

1171
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: shift energy because you're doing what's authentic. You're doing what

1172
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 2: fuels you, so you can be personal private in public.

1173
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 2: So there isn't a real need to ramp up. So

1174
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to catch up with that because I

1175
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: still teach. It's really important for corporates, especially before they

1176
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 2: go into a meeting, to transition because some matter up

1177
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: more performance moments, and I'll always go through a framework

1178
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 2: three questions, and it's very much sport and military influenced.

1179
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: Number one, who's in the room to what's the context?

1180
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: Number three what does success look like? And if you

1181
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: can ask those three questions before every meeting, podcast performance moment,

1182
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 2: you do pretty well what we miss. So a lot

1183
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: of people come out of that straight into the next thing.

1184
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a look back in the

1185
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: review mirror. Three more questions, what worked, what didn't? What

1186
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: can we improve next time? So sort of rolling between

1187
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 2: these performance moments. Yes, yes, look, yeah, I mean definitely

1188
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 2: I prepare in the sense that I'm well aware who

1189
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 2: I'm talking with and talking for and the outcomes that

1190
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: I want to create. But yeah, I try to bring

1191
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: that very comfortable energy too, you know, there's not so

1192
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: much rah rah, you know, and that works for me.

1193
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: But I think what's really important to say here too,

1194
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: is that so for anyone who is thinking about whether

1195
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 2: or not it's doing a pub having your own podcast,

1196
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: or becoming a presenter or a professional speaker or a coach,

1197
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: or the way that Andrew does it in the way

1198
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 2: that I do it, that's just the way that we

1199
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: do it. That's not the best way, that's what works

1200
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 2: for us. And I think that just like you know,

1201
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 2: we don't say what's the best diet, We say what's

1202
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 2: the best diet for you? Based on you know, your body,

1203
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 2: your your training, your you know, your age, or your

1204
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 2: genetic dispisition all of that, you know, So it's.

1205
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: Trying to find in the middle of all of this.

1206
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: You know, I've worked with other speakers who are so

1207
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: different to me but amazing, But I couldn't do what

1208
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: they do because I would be faking.

1209
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: It and they couldn't do what you do. E That's

1210
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 2: a flip side because you're you're in your lane.

1211
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: And so it's not like, oh, the Craig harp Away

1212
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: is the way. No, No, that's the way for me.

1213
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: It's like I also like, I do lots of things

1214
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: I do that work for me that I would not

1215
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: recommend for others because nobody is me but me. If

1216
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: I share kind of a revelation about how I do

1217
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: something and somebody wants to give that a go, that's fine,

1218
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: but there's no guarantee. You know. It's like I decided

1219
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: when I was twenty one or two, I didn't want

1220
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: to have a job per se. I wanted to work

1221
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: for me. I didn't want a bus. I didn't want

1222
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: to go to work. I didn't want to sit in

1223
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: a cubicle. I didn't want to wear a suit. I

1224
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: figured out all of these things I didn't want to do,

1225
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's the antidote to that. Well, the

1226
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: antidote is that I figure out how I can build

1227
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: something that's a synergy of making dough and having fun

1228
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: and learning and evolving and working with humans. And that's

1229
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: kind of what I did. But I've spent thirty four

1230
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: years not having holiday pay, not having sick pay, not

1231
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: having any guarantees, not knowing what I would make next month,

1232
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, a whole lot of vulnerability and exposure that

1233
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: most people would not like at all, But I thrive

1234
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: in that. That's my jam. I love that shit. But

1235
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: again I wouldn't recommend it.

1236
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 2: You know.

1237
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: It's just like I eate two meals a day because

1238
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: that works for me, but it's not something I would

1239
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: recommend to people. So I think, you know, even with

1240
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: these podcasts, you know, lean in and listen and see

1241
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: what resonates, and then maybe if something resonates, you know,

1242
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: take that for a test drive and see what the

1243
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: outcome is, you know, because it's different things work for

1244
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: different people.

1245
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 2: Just go back to one open loop. There's many. I'll

1246
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 2: close one and then we'll start to bring this baby behind.

1247
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: On the speaking I've seen and I know you've seen

1248
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 2: as well. There's certain speakers. So you see them and

1249
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: they're on stage and it's a wonderful show. It really

1250
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 2: is persona and you watch it and go, oh, wonderful choreography,

1251
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: look up and the music starts or fade left, fade

1252
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 2: right and tell the story. You know where I'm going

1253
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 2: with this. We're probably thinking of some similar speakers. You

1254
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: see and you go, oh, that was awesome, and then

1255
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: you see them the second time and go where's you. Yeah,

1256
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 2: So for people listening to this, I think you're the

1257
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 2: extreme with respect on just free range. But you've done

1258
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: loads of fucking work, made decades and decades, so you

1259
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: can rock up and you are that you projected you,

1260
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: and it's that beautiful blend public personal private, a little

1261
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 2: bit of secret every now and then, but it's the

1262
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: narrative you're happy with. We see some other people are

1263
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 2: so choreographed, probably so uncomfortable with the real them that

1264
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: they put on this persona and mask, and that's draining.

1265
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 2: It really is draining. So I think for people listening

1266
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 2: to this, just think, where are you on that spectrum

1267
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 2: when you show up? Are you putting on the mask?

1268
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: Are you the phantom of the opera every single time?

1269
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 2: Or you're just rocking up as you probably for most

1270
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: people this summer in the middle. And I think one

1271
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: of the lessons for me in this this discussion with you, mate,

1272
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 2: is about well, where am I happy being? And you've

1273
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: said this on your podcast when you've interviewed me. I'll

1274
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: do a bit more prep and I'm a bit more

1275
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: jazz handy on that stuff as well. But I found

1276
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: the lame way that suits me. And it's taken a while.

1277
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 2: And I love the feedback you gave me before, and

1278
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: I felt it the last podcast we did, I felt

1279
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 2: we really connected. We did one a couple of years ago.

1280
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 2: I think I was more jazz hands sort of speaking

1281
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: at as well. As you get more comfortable in yourself,

1282
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's energy fueling rather than energy draining.

1283
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 2: So that's a real takeout from this conversation.

1284
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and I'm not pissing in your pocket. But

1285
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: you're You're great. And what is interesting is that you know,

1286
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how old you are.

1287
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 2: How old are you fifty or fifty one?

1288
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean, this is interesting because you are getting better,

1289
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: not like, oh, you're just hanging in there. And I'm

1290
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: not saying this to pump you up in front of

1291
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: your audience, but the you that i've over the decades,

1292
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: you're better. Your skills are better, You're understanding your awareness,

1293
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 1: your self awareness, the way that you communicate, the way

1294
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,879
Speaker 1: that you frame things and structure things and tell stories.

1295
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you're better. And what's great is

1296
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 1: that at fifty one, you're still growing and learning. At sixty,

1297
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm still growing and learning like this is not normal,

1298
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: but fuck normal, fuck typical, like you know, and it's

1299
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: not about that We've got to be you know this

1300
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: in this endless pursuit of excellence. But you know, I

1301
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: know that if I can keep learning, evolving, growing while

1302
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: enjoying the journey and being me and still having a

1303
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: degree of contentment and calm, but also side by side,

1304
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: were still a little ambition, then why not you.

1305
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 2: Know two things about one? Thank you? I still want

1306
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that it means a lot coming from you.

1307
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 2: And I was going to make a flippant joke, and

1308
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: that's a Dubo boy me coming out going. He's giving

1309
01:10:58,360 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: me feedback. I've got to be a bit of a

1310
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 2: and not take it. But I'm going to sit in

1311
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: it and say thank you for someone I've looked up

1312
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 2: to for years and someone who's had a big influence

1313
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 2: on my life. You. I really appreciate that. And secondly,

1314
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: why not at fifty one or sixty one or seventy one,

1315
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 2: or if someone's listening to this and you're twenty one, why

1316
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: not be in a stage of constant growth, and if

1317
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:21,600
Speaker 2: we're going to get to one hundred, which I want to,

1318
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 2: I'm halfway there. And I just think on the mental

1319
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 2: skills side of my business, working with sporting teams and

1320
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 2: literally having the opportunity to work with great men and

1321
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 2: great women around the world. Now harps, I'm fucking loving it.

1322
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 2: But I'm just scratching the surface, mate, And I really

1323
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 2: can see in five years and that and even ten years,

1324
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,759
Speaker 2: I'm going to have so much better experience and better

1325
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 2: skills and better service in that area. That shit keeps

1326
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: me awake at night.

1327
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is just backtracking about three minutes.

1328
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,839
Speaker 1: You said cheers, no, no, no, you said something about

1329
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: the Phantom of the opera, the Phantom of the So

1330
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: the guy who is the Phantom, who played the Phantom

1331
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: on West End in London and in Australia, his name's

1332
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: Josh Pittman, and I coach him, I work with him. Yeah,

1333
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: he's awesome. And he has a podcast called Behind the

1334
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: Mask as well, which is just kicking off and it's

1335
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: it's really it's funny hearing you say that, and we

1336
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: talk about this mask and we've spoken, he and I

1337
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 1: are spoken. You should get him on old chats him

1338
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 1: and see if you're interested.

1339
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 2: He'd love to.

1340
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: He's great mate. He's a high performer. He's a freak,

1341
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: but he's just a deep thinking, creative clever like deep

1342
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: you and him will go great. I said to him

1343
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: the other day we're having a coffee and talking about

1344
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: I'm coaching him a bit in doing some keynote speaking, right,

1345
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 1: I said, you know, and I said, look, sometimes you're

1346
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: going to be in a boardroom with ten people, and

1347
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: sometimes you're going to be you know, wherever, in front

1348
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 1: of a thousand people. And you know, I said, what's

1349
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: the most you've ever sung in front of? And he

1350
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: goes ninety two and a half thousand, and I go,

1351
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: all right, well you've got me covered. Jeez, Like live

1352
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: at nine.

1353
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 2: I was going to say it'd be a big sporting event.

1354
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, live singing in front of ninety two and

1355
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: a half thousand peral.

1356
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,560
Speaker 2: Bet him singing in front of ninety two and a

1357
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:25,759
Speaker 2: half it's performer, yeah, and persona and then he steps

1358
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: back into the person I bet it's scarce a shit

1359
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 2: out of him thinking of standing in a boardroom having

1360
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 2: an authentic, open, real conversation to ten people without the

1361
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 2: metaphorical mask, so I can see exactly the utility you

1362
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 2: have for Joel.

1363
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,599
Speaker 1: Well and also just on that same thing, similar thing

1364
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 1: like I love comedy, right, I love I love There

1365
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,480
Speaker 1: ain't that much great comedy around at the moment, but

1366
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 1: I love making people laugh. I don't think I'm hilarious

1367
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: by any means, but but I've always I've had this

1368
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 1: secret thing to get up and just do five minutes

1369
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: of an open mic. I am more terrified of doing

1370
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 1: five minutes of stand up comedy in front of twelve

1371
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: disintransted strangers than I am of doing pretty much anything else.

1372
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 2: All right, well, so you have a dart.

1373
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm not doing it.

1374
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: No, no, listen, listen. I registered and people regular listeners

1375
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: have heard this. Before I went to KPMG, I wanted

1376
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 2: to scare myself because I've been in my comfort zone.

1377
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: And I enrolled in a four week comedy course and

1378
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 2: the final week was at Star City and you invited

1379
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 2: family members, friends, and you did a five minute open mind.

1380
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 2: I went to the first night and they got us

1381
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: up on stage and I didn't read the brief. Typical me,

1382
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 2: you'd understand this, and I just rocked up, thinking they'll

1383
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 2: get to talk to us. And then they said, all right,

1384
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 2: now we're going to get everyone up and just do

1385
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 2: one or two minutes, and we're going to look at

1386
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 2: the progress and we're going to film you. And I

1387
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 2: went first. He said, all right, do you? It was

1388
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 2: I feel uncomfortable listening fu awful. I wanted to some

1389
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 2: sort of keynote presentation, which is funny with context, like

1390
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that I'm hilarious, but I think I'm

1391
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 2: situational funny or slapstick funny, so I know how to

1392
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 2: make a crowd laugh. I did that, and you could

1393
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 2: hear crickets cricket. So guess what I did?

1394
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: What did you do?

1395
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 2: I didn't go back? I used. I used the excuse

1396
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: that I just started at KPMG. So when you say that,

1397
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 2: I will at some stage get the balls and go

1398
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 2: back because I don't want to be a comedian. But

1399
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 2: I talk regularly, as you do, to people about getting

1400
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: out of that comfort zone. So I've got to go

1401
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 2: back and do that. So I'd love you to do it.

1402
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: I think it would seem like scare the shit out

1403
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 2: of here, but there'd be a big learning in it.

1404
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: Well, see, when you've got a warm audience, right, you're

1405
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: there and you're doing something, and a group is there

1406
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: to hear you, right, and you're not there to be funny. Well,

1407
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: then you can be incidentally funny and they laugh. But

1408
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: people are not there for that purpose. But when you're

1409
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,440
Speaker 1: a comedian, well make us laugh, dumbass.

1410
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 2: It's like it's such a skill. I've seen Lawrence Mooney

1411
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 2: probably more than any other comedian and just so clever

1412
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 2: and deprecating and takes the piss and you can see

1413
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: the theory. There's a formula there. It scares the shit

1414
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: out of me getting up on stage and doing that.

1415
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't be doing it anytime soon. You can

1416
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: just tell us how you go.

1417
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for today.

1418
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: Thanks mate, it's been great.

1419
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 2: I love it. For people who want to get more

1420
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: of Harp's the best way to find you listen to you.

1421
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 2: Where should they go?

1422
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: So maybe just the You Project, which is my podcast,

1423
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: or I'm actually going to launch some public events in

1424
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: the next week or so. You can find those on

1425
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: my website which is just Craig Harper dot net. And

1426
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: I'm quite prolific on Instagram, which is just Craig, Anthony

1427
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: Harper or.

1428
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 2: One word good work on the public ones. Are you

1429
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: doing that yourself or you're doing it with the events.

1430
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: Doing that Melissa, who runs my life and who's much

1431
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 1: smarter than me, she's putting all those up. So we

1432
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 1: are running them. The U Project is my company, so

1433
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: we're running them, and I'm doing I'm doing a big

1434
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: Melbourne workshop Brisbane, Melbourne and one in Rural Victor, Rural

1435
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 1: esh Bend, you go. I don't know, but I'm doing

1436
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: a kind of a half day workshop called Understanding You.

1437
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 1: I really like it. It's new content. I'm really excited

1438
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: about it. And then I do these other things where

1439
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: I go into state this is a bit cheeky. I shouldn't.

1440
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: I shouldn't pull back the curtain. But I'll tell you

1441
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: so when I've got Sometimes when i've got a corporate gig,

1442
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: say on a Friday, I'll go up the Thursday and

1443
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: I'll do what I call a private workshop for say

1444
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: thirty people where I'm staying, so I'll book a boardroom

1445
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: and the night before my corporate gig, I'll just I'll

1446
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,759
Speaker 1: do a thirty person private workshop. Twenty to thirty people.

1447
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: So it's small, it's intimate and I spend about three

1448
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: and a half hours with people and it's you know,

1449
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: there's a bit of presenting, but it's more organic where

1450
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: people can just ask me stuff and we can go

1451
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: wherever we go. So I've been doing those a fair

1452
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: bit as well, and they're fun. I like those because

1453
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's very intimate and I'm used

1454
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: to being on a stage, but it's not that.

1455
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 2: It's probably given you a whole lot of different material

1456
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 2: as well, the reps and sets to now do the

1457
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,839
Speaker 2: half day, so there's been method in that process.

1458
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,719
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so all that more.

1459
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 2: Love your work mate, Love you and thank you for

1460
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 2: making me blush.

1461
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 1: I love you too, be boy, it's great seeing you

1462
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: that shade of Crimson. It was worth it just for that.

1463
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 2: Thank you very much,