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Speaker 1: I get our to him, I hope you're bloody terrific,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another installment, and that you project. And when

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Speaker 1: I say that, you project.

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Speaker 2: Kind of.

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Speaker 1: So as you know, I go on other podcasts and

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Speaker 1: sometimes I do an interview or have a conversation with

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Speaker 1: someone else on their show. I really enjoy it. I

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Speaker 1: think it's high value conversation, and so with their permission,

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Speaker 1: we kindly do what's called a co share, and that

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Speaker 1: happens both ways. Sometimes people are on my show, I

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Speaker 1: interview them, and then they take that episode back to

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Speaker 1: their show for want of a better term, and then

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Speaker 1: they share that with audience.

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Speaker 2: We call that a co share.

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Speaker 1: So recently, with all that in mind, recently I was

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Speaker 1: on Andrew May's podcast which is called Performance Intelligence, the

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Speaker 1: Performance Intelligence Podcast, and here's a bloody gun. He's a

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Speaker 1: slightly better version of me. I'm being honest.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I guess, I'll let you decide, But anyway, he's brilliant.

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Speaker 1: Loved him him, loved our conversation. And because of that, look,

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Speaker 1: there will also be if you're very familiar with me

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Speaker 1: and my stuff, there'll be a fair bit of familiarity

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Speaker 1: about the conversation. So feel free to have a bit

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Speaker 1: of a squizze and see whether or not you want

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Speaker 1: to keep going. You might not want to because there'll

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Speaker 1: be some repetition, but we do cover new ground. He's

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Speaker 1: a good interviewer. He also shares his own thoughts and

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Speaker 1: ideas which are really worth listening to. But before you

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Speaker 1: listen to it, I want to tell you that next weekend,

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Speaker 1: as I'm recording this and recording this Sunday to be

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Speaker 1: up Monday, So next weekend being August the eighteenth, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be in Bendigo doing my Understanding You workshop.

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Speaker 1: Understanding You it's brand new workshop, new content, a bit

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Speaker 1: of old stuff but new stuff, bit of a synthesis

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Speaker 1: of both, bit of convergence of the old and newer,

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Speaker 1: bit of fun, a bit of storytelling, a bit of science,

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Speaker 1: a bit of my PhD, a bit of research, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of interaction. It is called Understanding You. It's

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Speaker 1: three our workshop. You can book in via my site

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Speaker 1: Craigharpa dot net. Also, so that's next week Sunday the eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: same workshop happening in melbs on September eighth. September eight

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Speaker 1: happening in Melbourne. Also go to my website if you

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Speaker 1: want to have a look, if you want a book,

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Speaker 1: if you want to get involved. But without further ado,

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Speaker 1: Andrew may me you us it ready, steady go. I say,

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Speaker 1: put up your hand if you've ever heard your voice

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Speaker 1: on audio recording.

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Speaker 2: And everybody goes, oh god, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Then I go all right, hands down, Now put your

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Speaker 1: hand back up if you think you sound like shits,

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Speaker 1: And every hand goes up, and I go, well, the

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Speaker 1: bad news is that's how we hear you all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then you say, well, what's more in

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Speaker 2: your life or your house? And people go, what a

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Speaker 2: stupid question? Well, of course my life.

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Speaker 1: What You spent a year designing your house, but you

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Speaker 1: won't spend a week designing your optimal life, you know,

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Speaker 1: And again not trying to be critical, but just you know,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. None of us are going to accidentally

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Speaker 1: end up succeeding. Letting people see your metaphoric wartz is cool,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's it's the space between persona and person persona.

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Speaker 2: This is me, hey who and this is me?

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Speaker 1: This is me just talking sharing, And I think there's

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Speaker 1: always going to be a little bit of something performative

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Speaker 1: because I'm a bit of a performer, like I love

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Speaker 1: fucking making people laugh, I love telling stories. But then

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Speaker 1: woven through that is vulnerability and a bit of pain

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Speaker 1: and a bit of embarrassing stuff, and a real insight

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Speaker 1: into a real human experience that isn't all shiny and beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Optimized performance through adapting your physical, psychological, and emotional states.

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Speaker 2: Craig Harper is obsessed with human behavior, and over the

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Speaker 2: past four decades he has worn multiple hats including exercise scientists,

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Speaker 2: personal trainer, corporate speaker, university lecturer, AFL strength and conditioning coach,

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Speaker 2: business owner and self proclaimed bogan. Harps his host of

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Speaker 2: the wildly successful podcast The You Project, and he is

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Speaker 2: a true jack of all trades speaker, author, podcast entrepreneur, scientist,

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Speaker 2: and PhD candidate. His PhD is about how others experience you,

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Speaker 2: diving into principles including meta cognition, theory of mind, meta perception,

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Speaker 2: and meta accuracy. And today we've tracked the big man

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Speaker 2: down to explore the practical applications of his research in

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Speaker 2: our everyday lives. Craig Harper, Welcome to the podcast. Hi buddy,

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Speaker 2: that was nice. You've done a little bit of writing

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Speaker 2: and prep look at you like a grown up. It

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Speaker 2: wanted to do a different intro from the normal one

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Speaker 2: that everyone gets off your website. Hey, we had a

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Speaker 2: lovely conversation a couple of weeks ago, you me Tiff

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Speaker 2: on the You project, and that stimulated to have this

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Speaker 2: discussion where at the end we said, hey, let's get

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Speaker 2: you on performance intelligence podcasts. But I love that chat

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Speaker 2: we had made around purpose, passion, and also talking about

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Speaker 2: all other things starting with pe potential. Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 2: I really loved it.

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Speaker 1: And I've people maybe who don't do what we do,

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Speaker 1: who don't do podcasts and stuff, might not realize how

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Speaker 1: fun this is.

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Speaker 2: Like for me, a really busy day yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I got up this morning and I wasn't too I

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Speaker 1: knew that I was talking to you today. At some

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Speaker 1: stage I looked at my diary and I went, oh, awesome,

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Speaker 1: because that's for me. It's a fun hour. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: about this that's like work. And like I'm genuinely I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty, like you said, four decades. I've been doing

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Speaker 1: a version of this for ever, learning, growing, being the student,

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Speaker 1: being the teacher, being the coach, you know, fucking up,

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Speaker 1: getting up, falling down, winning, losing, failing, succeeding, all that

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Speaker 1: normal human stuff, and I'm just as excited as ever.

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Speaker 2: Like genuinely, I love human potential.

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Speaker 1: I love trying to understand who we are, how we are,

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Speaker 1: and why we are the way we are.

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Speaker 2: So and it shows see you again, it shows in

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Speaker 2: your podcasting. And it's nice now me being the podcast

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Speaker 2: and interviewing you. The talent rough frame, because I know

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Speaker 2: you're you say that your free range, loose, unscripted, I

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Speaker 2: call bullshit. You're much more than the former fat kid

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Speaker 2: from Mawi. I've said this to you, and you get

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Speaker 2: a little smile, the little lips light up. You know

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Speaker 2: where I'm going. You've done forty years of research, mate,

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Speaker 2: so you've done a bit of prep. So a rough frame.

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Speaker 2: I'm really curious why did you choose the topic of

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Speaker 2: how other people experience you? I want to pull on

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Speaker 2: that thread. Is there a story or stories that lead

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Speaker 2: to that. I've never heard you talk about that, so

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. When I started my PhD, I started looking

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Speaker 2: at motivation. So what often happens with a PhD, especially

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Speaker 2: in psych, is that people will start and then a

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Speaker 2: month or two or three or four in they're like

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Speaker 2: this is this is going to be a big problem,

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Speaker 2: like a bigger than big problem, or there's you know,

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Speaker 2: this is there's too much already done. Or you come

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Speaker 2: to a realization and you take a slight left turn,

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Speaker 2: or you do a one ad I did a one eighty.

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Speaker 2: So I was looking at motivation, the role of motivation

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Speaker 2: in creating you know, change, and you know all that

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Speaker 2: kind of general stuff. But there's just a huge amount

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Speaker 2: of divergence and ambiguity around the concept of motivation in psychology,

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Speaker 2: and it was probably going to be really messy, and

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Speaker 2: so not that long in probably three months in I

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Speaker 2: changed tact And so, as you said in the intro,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at a thing called colloquially we would call

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Speaker 2: it the you experience, which is you the listener, you

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Speaker 2: who are listening, your ability to understand what it is

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Speaker 2: like for other people to be around you, which we

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Speaker 2: call metaperception, and then how good you are at that

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Speaker 2: we call that meta accuracy. So the genesis for that

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Speaker 2: was lots and lots of conversations with leaders and bosses.

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Speaker 1: And managers and coaches who really had no idea what

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Speaker 1: it was like for their tribe, their team, their group,

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Speaker 1: to be around them, and I thought that was fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And their understanding of themselves for the group was not

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Speaker 1: the groups I'm understanding. There was a lot of divergence, right,

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of separation in the perspectives. And

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Speaker 1: the bottom line was, you know that there were some

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Speaker 1: bosses who were in some ways really good, great business skills, knowledge,

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Speaker 1: you know, like high IQ, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: they couldn't build rapport, connection, trust, respect because they really

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Speaker 1: didn't know how the group saw them or perceived or

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Speaker 1: processed them. And maybe even more importantly, they didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to care. And I was always curious about that. Where

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Speaker 1: I would go into I would get called in to

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Speaker 1: do some work with a company, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: kind of the directive was, oh, that's you know, the

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Speaker 1: culture is not great, communications not great. It's just not

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Speaker 1: it's not a great energy or environment to be and

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Speaker 1: could you come and kind of do your thing. So

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Speaker 1: I would talk to a few people, and then I

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Speaker 1: would often talk to the boss and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: found the problem that's up in this office. It's this

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Speaker 1: office up here in the corner. Here's the problem that

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Speaker 1: bell end of the corner. Oh, it's you, there's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Brian or Sally up in the corner office, right, so,

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Speaker 2: and that you know, just that, and nobody's trying to

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Speaker 2: be you know, difficult, that's nobody's goal. And yeah, so

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Speaker 2: that just opened the door for me. Mate. I didn't

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Speaker 2: even know what.

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Speaker 1: It was called, but I used to say to these people,

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Speaker 1: what do you think it's like being around you? And honestly,

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Speaker 1: most of them are never deeply thought about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or some's in total disconnect. It's frickin awesome because

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Speaker 2: I'm the CEO c sweet, so everyone must have a

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Speaker 2: great time when they spend time with me. You go, actually, mate,

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Speaker 2: you're a bit of a wanker, do you know that?

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Speaker 2: How would you frame that? Is your research helping you

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Speaker 2: not just understand it, but how to communicate that to

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Speaker 2: Brian in the corner office, who's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: nolburn disconnect between everyone else. Look, I mean the responses

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Speaker 2: range from oh, fucking hell, that's interesting, I've never really

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Speaker 2: thought about it, and then there's a bit of for

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Speaker 2: some of them, there's a bit of a light bulb

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Speaker 2: and a moment of self awareness and it's really the

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Speaker 2: beginning of something and like you said, almost at the

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Speaker 2: opposite end of the scale is well, I don't really care.

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Speaker 2: I'm not here to make friends. You know, they're here,

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Speaker 2: they're paid to do a job. I'm here to tell

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Speaker 2: them what to do, and it's kind of that. And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, yes and no, but you're not employing robots.

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Speaker 2: You're employing humans with emotions and feelings and you know,

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Speaker 2: beliefs and values and expectations and a need to be

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Speaker 2: respected and valued and all of those things. And so

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Speaker 2: the responses were really varied. But these days, like we

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Speaker 2: were chatting before we pressed the go button. Yesda.

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Speaker 1: I did two gigs with two different groups, two corporate groups,

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Speaker 1: and I talk about this a bit as part of

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Speaker 1: my presentations, depending on the focus of the presentation. Of course,

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Speaker 1: one of those was a one hour keynote. One was

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Speaker 1: a two hour workshop. But most people are like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: that's actually that's actually really interesting. And the way that

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Speaker 1: I open the door and get people to have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an insight is I say, put up

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Speaker 1: your hand if you've ever heard your.

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Speaker 2: Voice on audio recording, and everybody goes, oh god, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, and I go all.

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Speaker 1: Right, hand down, now, put your hand back up if

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Speaker 1: you think you sound like shit, and every hand goes up,

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Speaker 1: and I go, well, the bad news is that's how

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Speaker 1: we hear you all the time.

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Speaker 2: And it just gives people a little bit of an analogy,

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a you know, it's like, oh really,

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Speaker 2: I go, Yeah, that's that's the version or that's the

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Speaker 2: audible version of you that we get. So that's kind

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Speaker 2: of a sample or an example for you of you know,

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Speaker 2: the distance between your version and our version of you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's just it's a tipping off point, and it's

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Speaker 1: I think also point out that it's not something to

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Speaker 1: be worried about, but rather curious about. Like we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about, oh my god, do they like me. We're

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Speaker 1: not talking about insecurity or fear or self loathing. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about if I can understand their version of me,

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Speaker 1: then perhaps I can build rapport on connection and.

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Speaker 2: We can work better together.

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Speaker 1: We can be a better team, we can resolve conflict quicker,

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Speaker 1: we can create better, we can solve problems better, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's really about trying to create positive interpersonal

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Speaker 1: and professional outcomes.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump into the research and some of your

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Speaker 2: findings because I know you've got this self awareness pyramid,

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Speaker 2: which I love. I heard you in the Irish Lad

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Speaker 2: Paul Taylor. It's hard to have sort of audio subscriptions,

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Speaker 2: isn't When you're talking to the Irish Lad. He is

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Speaker 2: I've known him for a while, but yeah he does,

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Speaker 2: and especially when he talks fast. Yeah, man, good man, Pete.

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Speaker 2: But a question I've got for you. You've got a

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Speaker 2: story of you've got a recollection of where you have

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Speaker 2: shown up differently, and then you've got feedback down the

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Speaker 2: track and you went, oh shit, really is that what

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Speaker 2: they thought? And I'll give you one. I've had to

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Speaker 2: give you some time to think of. One. Sold a

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Speaker 2: previous business to KPMG when in there as a partner,

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Speaker 2: which means foreigner. When you're a lateral higher, I had

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Speaker 2: no idea about risk compliance, stakeholder engagement. And there's five

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Speaker 2: hundred other partners that all have their hands on the

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Speaker 2: ship as well. And I had an amazing coach who

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Speaker 2: work with me, and she said, Andrew, you're used to

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Speaker 2: being a fighter pilot and everyone is around you putting

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Speaker 2: the fuel in right, go off, the ship out and

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Speaker 2: the sea. You told when to take off, when to

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Speaker 2: land and everyone's doing everything for you. Now, Jill said,

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Speaker 2: you're flying at a three eighty and there's five hundred

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Speaker 2: other people you need to share the controls with. And

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Speaker 2: you come across as being too fast paced, sometimes not listening,

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Speaker 2: do your own thing, and a little bit selfish. And

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Speaker 2: I went fuck Jesus because I wouldn't have thought I

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Speaker 2: was selfish. I wouldn't have thought that I was too fast.

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Speaker 2: But my skill set Harps had been so trained, and

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Speaker 2: you've worked on running a small business and being a

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Speaker 2: keynote speaker. Were you're talking at not talking too The

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Speaker 2: perception I had on other people's experience with me wasn't

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Speaker 2: exactly the same. And then the team I had as well,

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Speaker 2: we did a proper three sixty, not a three sixty

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Speaker 2: when you own it and hey, what do you think

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Speaker 2: of me? We'll go out to lunch after, but a

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Speaker 2: proper independent three sixty. I've got similar feedback that people

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Speaker 2: said they liked me, they saw the passion, but I

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Speaker 2: was too pushy, and that it was very much we're

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Speaker 2: doing it this way, jump on or jump off. Also,

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Speaker 2: that had been strengthened by sport. You've worked in sport.

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Speaker 2: You don't actually coach in sport. You tell because you've

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Speaker 2: got a whole bunch of men and women to make

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Speaker 2: the team and they're highly competitive. So that was a

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Speaker 2: slab for me. It was like a big wet fish

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Speaker 2: across the face harps where it's like, God, I think

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Speaker 2: I can communicate, and I pride myself on being caring

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Speaker 2: and collegiate, but I'm coming across to some people as

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Speaker 2: a bit of a knob shit and it hurt. The

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Speaker 2: feedback hurt.

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Speaker 1: I can understand that. But if it's true that it's

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Speaker 1: better that you know it, that I know it, that

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Speaker 1: we know it.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Also, your intention, albeit good, your intention will not always

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Speaker 1: be someone else's experience true. Right, So my intention might be, hey, mate,

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Speaker 1: I want to give you know, we finished this, we

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Speaker 1: wrap it up, and I want to say, hey, you're

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Speaker 1: doing a great job, but can I just share a

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Speaker 1: couple of thoughts with you?

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Speaker 2: Right? And then all of a sudden you're like, fuck

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Speaker 2: your thoughts, I don't want your thoughts. Fuck you what

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Speaker 2: now I might and by the way, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to do that. I wouldn't even think of it because

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Speaker 2: you do a great job. But in this hypothetical. My

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Speaker 2: intentions are good.

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Speaker 1: I want to help you build a better business and

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Speaker 1: brand and podcasts and give all that. Right, So my

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Speaker 1: intention in this hypothetical might be good, but your experience

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Speaker 1: might be why is he criticizing me? Why is he

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So positive intention, negative experience happens all

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Speaker 1: the time. So that's the first problem that's happening constantly

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Speaker 1: in business and various organizations. The second problem is that

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Speaker 1: the boss or the leader or the coach doesn't know

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Speaker 1: that it's happening because they just assume that other people

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Speaker 1: think like them. There's this I don't know if we

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Speaker 1: spoke about it last week, but there's a thing in

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Speaker 1: psychology called false consensus effect.

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Speaker 2: Did we speak about that? No, we didn't, so I've

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Speaker 2: heard you talk about it. Jot that down.

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Speaker 1: So that just means that we, without thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: we kind of assume that people think like us. So

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Speaker 1: false consensus effect, right, And the truth is that the

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Speaker 1: only person in the world who thinks like Craig Harper

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Speaker 1: all the time is Craig Harper. And so I would

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Speaker 1: be silly to assume that what means ABC for me

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Speaker 1: means ABC for Andrew and the listeners, And so I

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Speaker 1: am constantly at least aware of this idea of how

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Speaker 1: do I share this thought, this idea, this message in

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Speaker 1: a way that connects optimally with Andrew or with Andrew's audience.

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Speaker 1: How do I do that? What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm not talking to me, And back to that

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Speaker 1: thing of you know, I can't be objective about me

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Speaker 1: because I am me, so in a way, I care

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Speaker 1: more about what you think of my speaking skills than

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Speaker 1: what I think because you're more representative of the audience

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Speaker 1: than I.

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Speaker 2: Am, because you're an outsider looking in. I'm it. So

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Speaker 2: this idea of and some of the things that we

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Speaker 2: need to own up to and think about we don't

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Speaker 2: like owning up to and thinking about because it means,

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Speaker 2: you know, I've got a like you. Oh well, maybe

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Speaker 2: I am selfish or maybe I am or That was

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Speaker 2: the big one for me, and it was part of

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Speaker 2: my evolution from being x in external exogenous other people

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Speaker 2: giving feedback, which is part self esteem or low self

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Speaker 2: esteem part again, just you get so used to the

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Speaker 2: external validation and you don't maybe sit and reflect what

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Speaker 2: does it mean to me? It was a huge pivotal

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Speaker 2: point and just piecing it together as I'm talking to you.

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Speaker 2: Not long after that, about a year eighteen months, I

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Speaker 2: did a deep dive on purpose because it started to

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Speaker 2: open that Oh, okay, what is this about? How do

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Speaker 2: I get that nice blend between X? And you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have done the two gigs yesterday, You wouldn't have one

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Speaker 2: of Australia is in podcast if you didn't have people

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Speaker 2: connecting with your message, following and liking. So you do

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Speaker 2: need that, but you got to marry that. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's that authenticity. I see, you've got you rock up,

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Speaker 2: You're comfortable who you are. Hey, take it or leave it,

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Speaker 2: this is me. But you've got that nice dance between

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Speaker 2: the two. So it's inner and there's a real drive

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Speaker 2: and purpose and connection. But you're connecting with others. So

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Speaker 2: back to that question. Have you had an experience like

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Speaker 2: me where you thought you were showing up in one

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Speaker 2: way and you got feedback that was really disconnected to

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Speaker 2: how you thought you were connecting or showing up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: many times.

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Speaker 1: But the one that is the standout for me, which

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Speaker 1: was the stepping off point for having this other awareness,

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Speaker 1: was when I back in the day, I used to

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Speaker 1: lecture what in Victoria called vic FIT courses, so teaching

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Speaker 1: CIRT threeand cert for would be personal trainers and gym instructors.

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Speaker 2: And one of the reasonably consistent bits of feedback that

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Speaker 2: came in with the feedback ORMs that all their students

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Speaker 2: would fill out is that, you know, mostly Craig's not terrible.

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Speaker 2: We like him, he's a bit funny, he's done.

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Speaker 1: But probably about one in ten said something like he's intimidating.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, who fucking said that? What are their names?

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Speaker 2: Where are they give me their addresses? You know, you

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Speaker 2: stand up the front of the class next time. All right,

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Speaker 2: some of you fucking bastards have said I'm intimidating, stand up,

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Speaker 2: stand up right now, get up here, And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what anyone means. But it was, of course,

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Speaker 2: of course it was.

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Speaker 1: They had every right to say that, and clearly for

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Speaker 1: a percentage of the people I was.

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Speaker 2: And just for context for people listening to this, and

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Speaker 2: you can follow this on YouTube now as well, the

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Speaker 2: Performance Intelligence podcast. So I did there, mate, just got

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Speaker 2: a nice little YouTube lug. But when I first met you, gosh,

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Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, you were seriously jacked. So you

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Speaker 2: were you were the gym Jim junkie, right. You owned

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Speaker 2: Australia's biggest I think Southern Hemisphere is biggest personal training studio.

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Speaker 2: So you were the weights guy like you. You had

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Speaker 2: biceps on biceps, So I'm imagining back then you'd have

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Speaker 2: your happy pants, you weightlifted pants. You'd have your boots

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Speaker 2: or you know, shoes are tight T shirt that's probably

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Speaker 2: a couple of sizes too short because you got the

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Speaker 2: pecks and got the delts, so physically you would have

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Speaker 2: been quite intimidating. Yeah, I was. I probably was. I

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Speaker 2: was probably well put in context on five five ten

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Speaker 2: ish and I'm now I'm about eighty five kilos. Then

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Speaker 2: I was probably about one hundred and five and maybe

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Speaker 2: leaner than I am now, so muscles on my eyelids

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Speaker 2: and all of that, and probably mildly happy with myself

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Speaker 2: if I'm being self aware and all of that. But

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Speaker 2: I didn't, I mean, it wasn't my intention, Like nothing

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Speaker 2: in me had that as a goal to be intimidating.

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Speaker 1: But I mean the bottom line was that I was

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Speaker 1: to some people, and so I had to I had

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Speaker 1: to think about that. I had to lean into that

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Speaker 1: and try to understand what I was doing and how

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Speaker 1: I was being that created that impact or.

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Speaker 2: Effect for some. And of course you can't control everyone's response.

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Speaker 1: But you know that was good for me because and

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Speaker 1: since then, I've kind of like, I realize that I am,

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Speaker 1: even forty years later, I'm a work in progress. I'm

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Speaker 1: I get trapped an ego, I'm insecure at times, I

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Speaker 1: have imposter syndrome at times, still all of those normal

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Speaker 1: human things. But I think what is you know, what

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Speaker 1: is good is somebody in your position who you are

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Speaker 1: a leader, you have followers, you have you.

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Speaker 2: Stand in front of groups. So do I all of this?

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Speaker 1: But I think when you genuinely, not disingenuously, but when

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Speaker 1: you genuinely talk about your own bullshit and your own

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Speaker 1: fuck ups, and your own idiosyncrasies, and your own insecurity

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Speaker 1: and your own fear, while also sharing some strategies and

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Speaker 1: stories and techniques that might help people think.

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Speaker 2: Do be better.

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Speaker 1: People value that more and trust you more because you're

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Speaker 1: not some fucking guru pontificating from a stage who's living

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Speaker 1: this flawless perfect existence, in this perfect marriage with these

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Speaker 1: perfect fucking genetics. You know, there's some I can't start.

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Speaker 1: That's and so for me, like there's a lot of

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00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: similar models to this, but I put people into kind

431
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: of all our different cells into five categories. The first

432
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: is public you. These are self explanatory, then personal you,

433
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: then private you, then secret you, then future you the

434
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: you that you want to be so personal public you

435
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 1: is the one that everyone sees. There's no real filter.

436
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, you're not you kind of You'll let that

437
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: version of you connect with the world, and the world

438
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: see that version of you. Then there's kind of personal you,

439
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: which is more you know, family friends, maybe five to

440
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,120
Speaker 1: ten people get personal you.

441
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: And then private you might be your.

442
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: Partner or your mum, or your sister or somebody one

443
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: or two maybe that are very close and pretty much

444
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: know everything. Then secret you that's just you. That's the

445
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: shit that you're telling no one, the feelings that you're

446
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: sharing that insecurity that you. And then future you is

447
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: or potential you is who I might want to be

448
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: and who I might want to become. And I try

449
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: as much as possible to share private me with the world,

450
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: like the stuff that most people wouldn't the stuff that

451
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: I'm genuinely scared of. The stuff that I think I

452
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: might do well or poorly, my own insecurity, my own

453
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, the space between my values and my behavior.

454
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: Am I a great role model?

455
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: No?

456
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: Should you be like me? No?

457
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: But I'll you know, I try to be less performative

458
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: than I used to be. You know, I know that,

459
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: see you, And I know this right as a speaker,

460
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: and people who don't do this job might not think

461
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: about this, But as a speaker, I know that I've

462
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: got pretty good skills. I've got lots of miles on

463
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: the clock, a pretty good situational and social and public

464
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: awareness in that context, and I know that I can

465
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: walk out on a stage do my job forty five minutes,

466
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: sixty minutes, bibbity bobbedy boo skills, blah blah blah. Tell

467
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: the stories, you know, share the messages. Thanks very much.

468
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm Craig Harper. You're all fucking awesome. Yeah, there's that,

469
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: and that ain't terrible, but for me, that's more choreograph,

470
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: scripted and performative. But the stuff that blows me away

471
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: and people away, and it's not about Craig Harper, but

472
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: is when you get beyond that show and you start

473
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: to create a level of emotional, psychological, sociological, maybe even

474
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: who knows, spiritual connection that's got nothing to do with

475
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 1: any performance or script or plan. You're just raw, and

476
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: you're just in the moment. And you know, I don't

477
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: not that they're bad, but I don't use videos or

478
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: slides or I just get up and see where we go.

479
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's it's fucking amazing. And

480
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: as you and I have said before, the amazing's got

481
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. I'm just a conduit to

482
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: the amazing. And when that sounds like bullshit and people go, eh,

483
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: but there's stuff that's happened in my own workshops and

484
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: seminars that I can't even explain, but something happens.

485
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for context, you said this before we went on.

486
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: You're still banging out about one hundred presentations a year,

487
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: so you're not like one of those people that does

488
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: two keynotes and has all over their website International Keynotes

489
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: speaker as seen on the stage back in nineteen eighty

490
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: four when we both down. So you're doing a lot up.

491
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: Couple of things. One is it's this awareness when you

492
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 2: move from denial and say that river floating in Egypt.

493
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: So I was in denial about some of those habits

494
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: and behaviors often linked to not low self esteem, but

495
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: absolutely not confidence where you can be there in your

496
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: own skin. So that was a big shift for me.

497
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: And I can hear that's happened with you from the

498
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: VIC fit and other examples. But when I listen to

499
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: you and I catch up with you, I've seen you

500
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: present a few times as well. You're really authentic. There

501
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: would be a bunch of people here listening who are

502
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: shit scared going I can't let people know the private me. God,

503
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: I'm not going there, let alone the personal mate, because

504
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: I've been taught my leaders said, all right, young fella,

505
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: young lady, when you turn up, leave your shoes and

506
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: your personality at the door. And when you're working for

507
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: this bank, consulting firm, telco, insert government organization, you've got

508
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: to be the job description of the role. We don't

509
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: want your personal shit. Now that's changed a lot, thank goodness.

510
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: But it's authentic authenticity rather than the hey, now, let

511
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: me be authentic with you. I don't think i've shared

512
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: this story with you. A guy that I used to

513
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: work with, lovely guy. It leads a big and he said, Mazie,

514
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: can you come and watch me speak. I'm speaking at

515
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: our open forum town hall, and I want you to

516
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: help me because you do good speaking and stuff. So

517
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: I'm watching him and he started a bit nervous, a

518
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: bit dry, and then he opened his arms and I

519
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: think he'd listened to Brene Brown. He said, now, let

520
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: me be authentic with you, and I felt like saying, now,

521
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: let me kick you in the balls. God, don't say

522
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: to people let me be authentic. You be authentic. You

523
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: do authentic. I see you do that beautifully. I see

524
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: some people now they do it, and I feel like

525
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: I need a shower.

526
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: Well, if it's choreographed, there's not fucking authentic. So it's like,

527
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, fake authenticity. And I think letting people see

528
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: your your metaphoric.

529
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: Wartz is cool. You know.

530
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: It's the space between persona and person you know, persona,

531
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: this is me, hey who? And this is me this

532
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: is me just talking sharing, And I think, look, if

533
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: we're well, if I'm honest, there's always going to be

534
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of something performative because I'm a bit

535
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: of a performer, Like I love fucking making people laugh.

536
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: I love telling stories. I love manipulating the crowd in

537
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: a good way, you know.

538
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: But then woven through that is vulnerability and a bit

539
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: of pain and a bit of embarrassing stuff and a

540
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: real insight into a real human experience that isn't always

541
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: shiny and beautiful. But I think, you know, that's the

542
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: thing of trying to create this synergy and symphony of

543
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: messages and entertainment and connection. Because the other thing, too

544
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: is like what people don't think about.

545
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: You know.

546
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: You could get on stage, or I could get on stage,

547
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: and we could share what is the most mind blowing

548
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: information of all time, with no nuance, with no story,

549
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: with no peaks and troughs, with no humor, with no

550
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: and not only does it.

551
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: Not have a good impact, it has a terrible impact

552
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: in you. And I never get any more work. You've

553
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: gotta have a bit of Joe's hands, halps jazz hands.

554
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: But if you've got too much Ja's hands, you don't

555
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: get booked to do the jazz. It's like Goldilocks and

556
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: the Three Bears. Right, this porridge is just right, and

557
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: that's it. That's a skill to adapt that to an

558
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: audience as well. Well.

559
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: It's a real challenge because when you start, as you know,

560
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: when you start, like firstly, when I started.

561
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: I was fucking terrible. It's so bad.

562
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: But you can't get good at what you're not doing right.

563
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: You can't get better at the thing that you won't do,

564
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: and you can't get better at the thing that you

565
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: won't acknowledge. Hey, Craig, you're intimidating.

566
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: No, I'm not. Fuck off? Who fucking said right? So

567
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: I can't.

568
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: I can't get better at being less intimidating, or at

569
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: least trying to, you know, unless I first go Okay, cool,

570
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm aware now, so I need to lean

571
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: into that.

572
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: But you know, this whole I feel I'd probably sound

573
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: old when I say this, but I feel like a

574
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: lot of people are very impatient now. It's almost like

575
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: they want ten years worth of experience in a year.

576
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: We want a hack like download it, mate, Can you

577
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: give me the Craig Harper the U Project hack? What

578
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: do you mean You've been spending forty years trial tribulation, triumph,

579
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 2: stuff up, setbacks and you've got this experience, But can

580
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: you give that to me in a download? No, you

581
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: can't get in a download. That's a huge problem I

582
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: see with my kids now, you and I, little Craig,

583
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: little Andrew used to go the library for people listening.

584
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: There's this thing that used to have in councils where

585
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: you'd have books withz They used to have real books

586
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: where you go there and you'd actually you'd put your

587
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: name and you'd wait for a book. But at Glennys

588
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: where I grew up, James Collin, great kid, James, real nerd,

589
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: but he was always the first to get the book.

590
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: So harps. I'd have to wait two weeks to do

591
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: my geography assignment. Can you imagine saying that to a kid, Now,

592
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: wait two weeks until you go get the books? They go, No,

593
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: I was just downloaded off the internet. So that's part societal. Yeah.

594
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: I do some coaching with a guy, a young guy

595
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: called Brad who's a jiu jitsu black belt, And arguably

596
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: jiu jitsu is the hardest martial art in the world

597
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: to get a black belt, and it takes if you're

598
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: consistent and you start today and you've got some talent,

599
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: it'll take you about ten years. Right, So it's not

600
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: one of these martial arts where you start on Monday

601
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: and by Wednesday week you're a black belt, right, And

602
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: I was talking to him about I said to him,

603
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: if I started now, when would I get my black belt?

604
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: If I went three four days a week and I'm

605
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: sixty You said, well, you might never get it.

606
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: Let's say that. I'm like, okay, thank you.

607
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: And then he said, but oh, probably, you know, if

608
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: your body didn't fall apart ten to fifteen years.

609
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, really, It's like yeah, yeah.

610
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, and that's why they're held in

611
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: really high regard. He's a second or third dan black belt.

612
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: They've earned it. It took him, and he's good at it.

613
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: It took him a decade to get his black belt, right,

614
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: and he's good. He's a natural. But this is the thing,

615
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: is that whatever we do, whatever we're doing for the

616
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: first time, we're a white belt, and the journey of

617
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: getting you know, metaphorically strangled and choked and tapped and

618
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: kicked in the dick and punched in the face and

619
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: all of those things.

620
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: You know, this is the journey.

621
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: And also not only is that the journey, that's the

622
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: practical reality of becoming good or mastery or high performance

623
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: or human optimization or whatever you want to call it.

624
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: But not only is the outcome then worth it, it's

625
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: the journey that is the real value because the journey

626
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: changes you. You know the thing that we the thing that

627
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: we want in our culture, which is we want success.

628
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: Everybody.

629
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be a failure. Of course, success means

630
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: different things to different people, and nobody wants to be

631
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: a dud. Nobody wants to be unhealthy, nobody wants to

632
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: be broke, nobody wants to be unpopular, nobody wants to fail.

633
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: But also nobody wants to be uncomfortable. Well, guess what

634
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: if you're not at least prepared to get uncomfortable on

635
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: a semi regular basis that growth, that learning, that adaptation,

636
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: that improvement, that high performance, it's unlikely.

637
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 2: And thank goodness, we've got research now around post traumatic growth.

638
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: Because everyone was saying, oh, stress will break you, but

639
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of people that go through high

640
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: levels of stress, even trauma, and they grow and they flourish.

641
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: So we're seeing more research come out of that from

642
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: especially Martin Seligman started that with the US military. Hey

643
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: on the research frame because we could talk stories and experience,

644
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: but there's a real rigor to what you do, which

645
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: I love as well. So you can tell us a

646
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: little bit about the self awareness pyramid, and so is

647
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: that something you've come up with or have you adapted

648
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: Maslow Blooms taxonomy. I'm thinking of a whole bunch of

649
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: other frameworks.

650
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: Look, I could make that. There could be lots of

651
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: different layers to that. I just I developed that. But

652
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: obviously all of those terms are not my terms. It's

653
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: just a way like I kind of developed this simple

654
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: pyramid to get people to understand, you know, my stuff

655
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: quite easily. I've got a really good little graphic that

656
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: I will send you that you might want to use that.

657
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 2: Will put them in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

658
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: Anyway, So in this pyramid, at the bottom of the pyramids,

659
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: so there's four levels. The bottom of the pyramid is

660
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: what's called metacognition, which is thinking about thinking. And you know,

661
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: the truth is that most people don't think about how

662
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: they think very often, if at all. They just think

663
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and they believe their thoughts and those thoughts become beliefs.

664
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: And also the idea of thinking about the origin of

665
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: the way that my mind works, like why do I

666
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: think and distill information? And see the world the way

667
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: that I do. What is the lens or what is

668
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: the window through which I view and understand and process

669
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: the world? What are the things that create my windows?

670
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: So like blease, values, ideas, experiences, bias, faith, prejudice, like

671
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: all of those things which we all have to some extent,

672
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: that kind of forms the window through which I view

673
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: the world. So if I'm a you know, I'm a Vegan,

674
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to look at the world a certain way.

675
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: If I'm a Catholic, so too, if I'm a black

676
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: belt in jiu jitsu and some guys coming up to me,

677
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: I might view that quite differently to if I'd never

678
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: done any kind of self defense. And so, you know,

679
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm an only child who grew up in a Catholic family.

680
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: I was a morbidly obese child, I went to only

681
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: Catholic schools. I grew up in rural Victorious. So all

682
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: of these things are variables that shape or inform my thinking.

683
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: So that one of the biggest challenges for us in

684
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: this journey towards what we might call greater self awareness

685
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: or even consciousness, is to become aware of our lack

686
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: of awareness. It's like I become more conscious when I

687
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: read recognize my lack of consciousness, and by that I

688
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: mean the autopilotness of our existence.

689
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: Which is the way we live now. We just wake

690
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: up and we grab the weapon of mass distraction and

691
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: we scroll and we go to meeting after meeting. It

692
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: is groundhog Day. It's such a good metaphor Pensacola fild.

693
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: You just wake up and before you realize you wake up.

694
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: I've heard you say five years later. It's not five

695
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, it's ten, twenty thirty. Jesus.

696
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: I've got to the end of my career and my

697
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: kids are now having kids. I'm not really connected with

698
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: them because I've just been on this conveyor belt for

699
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: years and years. And then it often takes a crisis,

700
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: a relationship breakdown, losing a job, a big life event,

701
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: and that can sometimes shift. But people don't have enough pain,

702
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: so they're comfortably uncomfortable. It's like the just the tapping

703
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: of a wall. You tap, tap, tap, tap. The wall

704
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: doesn't crumble thirty years later, it's one tap and the

705
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: whole jipprop comes tumbling down. That self awareness and just

706
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: flying through life on autopilot.

707
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: So let's summarize that into four or five words. Don't

708
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: wait for the catastrophe. I mean, this is what we do.

709
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: We wait till shit breaks and then we go, oh

710
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: I should get in shape. Oh I should be nicer

711
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: to my wife. Oh I should or whatever it is.

712
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's about being proactive, you know, not reactive,

713
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: and leaning into that a little bit. So that's understanding that,

714
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, we've all been programmed and conditioned and recognizing

715
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: where my programming, my cognitive, behavioral, emotional psychological programming ends

716
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: and where me, Craig Harper, the clean slate, where do

717
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: I start? Who am I beyond that? Like, beyond my

718
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: programming conditioning beliefs and very kind of set ideas and

719
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: ideals and ideology, like who am I beyond that? For me,

720
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: that's a really curious kind of exploration.

721
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: And thoughts are not facts. That's something I find people

722
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: really connect with. And you go, hey, you think the

723
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: way you think, let's talk about thinking about the way

724
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: you think. And you get some really weird looks metacognition,

725
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: what's that shit? I just think, Champ, thoughts are not facts.

726
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: And on your mobile phone, I've asked Wizard this and

727
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: he's on Android, so he said Android had just better.

728
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 2: So there's no answer to this story. But if you're

729
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: an iPhone, you regularly have to do an iOS upgrade.

730
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: And the people harps going through decades on autopilot, they

731
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 2: just wake up their gray They're a monochrome version of gray,

732
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: gray clothes, gray car, gray skin, gray hair, if they've

733
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: got any gray life, because there's no thinking about how

734
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: can I challenge this or what can I upgrade? So

735
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: I love that whole notion of the regular iOS upgrade.

736
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: And you've heard me bang on about this. Do you

737
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: want your body to be stronger, fitter, fast, and more flexible,

738
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: You've got to do reps and sets. It's exactly the

739
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: same with your thinking. Get out of that laziness or

740
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: that comfort zone.

741
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I think it's really difficult at times to be objective

742
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: about the thing you're in the middle of, if not impossible,

743
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: to be objective about the thing that you're in the

744
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: middle of. And what we're all in the middle of

745
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: is our own life, right, and that is why it

746
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: is easy to close your eyes and open them again.

747
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: And it's a year later and you're essentially you've blinked

748
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: and That's why it's very easy to keep doing things

749
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: that don't really work because they're habitual, they're programmed. And

750
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: so this is not an easy idea. This is an

751
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: idea though it's not an easy do. But it's an

752
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: easy idea. It's just a construct. But the idea is

753
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: to find a way to be able to do an

754
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: inventory or a stock take on your own existence. And

755
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: so the question that I ask people, individuals and audiences

756
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: all the time is what's not working? Like, what's the

757
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing that doesn't work. What's the thing

758
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: that you're doing with your body that doesn't work. What's

759
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: the thing that you're doing with your kids you're parenting

760
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: your relationships that doesn't work. What's the thing that you

761
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: do with money that's fun looking stupid, but you still

762
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: keep doing it? Like on Planet you, you are always

763
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: getting data, You're always getting information. Now, the challenge in

764
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: the middle of the mayhem and the chaos that is

765
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: the continuity and the never endingness of our existence, the

766
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: challenge is to be able to hit the metaphoric pause

767
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: button and say, okay, if I continue on my current

768
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: trajectory of habits and thinking, beliefs and behaviors and outcomes.

769
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: If I continue on this trajectory, will my life be

770
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: better or worse than a year, two or five? The

771
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: answer for many of us is worse. Okay, that's not

772
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: self loathing, that's awareness. Now what to do with the awareness? Okay,

773
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: easier said than done. But how do I shift this?

774
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: How do I get out of this groove, this pattern,

775
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: this behavior that is more self sabotaged than self serve?

776
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: How do I do that?

777
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: And so, you know, we think about building a business,

778
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: our best business or best brand, or our best bank balance.

779
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: You know, even we think about how would we build

780
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: a house if we're starting from scratch. You know, you

781
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: would spend a year designing and developing and finding the

782
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: land and colors and fittings and blah blah blah. But

783
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: when it comes to building our best.

784
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: It's just just on that. You're so right, graphic simulation.

785
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: So you've got all these different designs. What do you

786
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: think we'll go to a different show. We'll go to

787
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: the trade warehouses. People spend hours, days, weeks, months planning

788
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: rebuild of the house which they might be in for

789
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: ten years. Yeah, exactly.

790
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: And then you say, well, what's more important your life

791
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: or your house, and people go, what a stupid question? Well,

792
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: of course my life, what house set up question? You

793
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: spent a year designing your house, but you won't spend

794
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: a week designing your optimal life, you know. And again

795
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: not trying to be critical, but just you know, here's

796
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: the thing. None of us are going to accidentally end

797
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: up succeeding. It's so easy to live an unconscious groundhog

798
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: day existence. And it takes courage, and it takes effort

799
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: and energy and probably a bit of discipline, self control

800
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: and discomfort, which are not very sexy things in twenty

801
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: twenty four. But you know, it's just that's just what's required,

802
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: you know. And I always say I can tell you

803
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: what you want to hear all the truth to an audience.

804
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: And I go, what do you want? They're like, oh,

805
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: I guess the truth. That's going to hurt all right.

806
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: So metacognition is the base they metacognition yep. Theory of

807
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: mind is essentially our ability to understand or try to

808
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: understand or be curious about how other people think, which

809
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: you're not going to get my assumption, unless you understand

810
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: yourself first, then you can understand others so hence the framework.

811
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: And also being able to in real time realize that

812
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: Andrew and I are in the same conversation but not

813
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: the same experience. And then with that in mind, what

814
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: is Andrew's experience right now? What is Andrew's version of me?

815
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: What is Andrew's version of our story about this conversation,

816
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: this moment in time? What is his story about this interaction?

817
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: And these are questions that we ask not because we

818
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: necessarily have to agree with the other person or endorse

819
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: the other person, or let's be honest, even like the

820
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: other person, because in some situations we're going to work

821
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: with people we don't really want to. That doesn't make

822
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: us terrible, it makes us human. But the point is

823
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: not to align or connect or endorse or agree, but

824
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: rather to understand, you know, seek first to understand and

825
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: then to be understood. So me trying to understand. And

826
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: I've worked with many people that are so not like me,

827
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: not better or worse, just different. But everything from you know,

828
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 1: the military and Victoria police, to blokes in prison, to addicts,

829
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: to alcoholics, to the general public to people with all

830
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: kinds of abilities and disabilities. And in the middle of that,

831
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand them so I can work

832
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: with them or help them or support them.

833
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: So that's theory of mind I'm going deep at the

834
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: moment on mindfulness. And I used to think mindfulness was

835
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: a crock of shit. I think because I'd watched the

836
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: wrong videos where you have this yahwei profit in the

837
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: modern age, walking in romes and just just talking absolute bullshit,

838
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: making it sound like this all encompassing just every part

839
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: of your life. But when you look at the definition

840
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: of mindfulness, you go back to the Japanese samurais two

841
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: and a half thousand years ago. Similar time, Yogis were

842
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: starting to come up with similar principles. It's about being

843
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: present in the moment without judgment. So if you're on

844
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: your mobile phone scrolling all the time, if you're on

845
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: autopilot through the decades, there is no mindfulness. It's the opposite.

846
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: It's mindlessness, and it's often driven by distraction. So I'm

847
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: really curious, have you looked at that thread of mindfulness,

848
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,479
Speaker 2: because as you're saying a lot of that about both

849
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: my self awareness of that metacognition and then other people

850
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 2: just being able to drop into that mindful state, being

851
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: present in the moment without judgment. Where does the mindfulness

852
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: research sit in with this? Yeah?

853
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: So for me, mindfulness is it's sometimes almost better called

854
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: mindlessness so or mind emptiness, like because in a way

855
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: you're trying to get out of your mind. You're trying

856
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: to get out of thought in a way, you know,

857
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: and to be the kind of the mind fuck no

858
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: pun intended, but is because we're trying to understand the

859
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: mind using the mind as the tool that we're trying

860
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: to understand itself with. Right, It's like I'm analyzing the

861
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: mind with my mind. Oh great, how's that going? But yes,

862
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: I trying to turn down the chaos, trying to be

863
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: the calm in the chaos. That Eastern philosophical construct of

864
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: equanimity is being able to be in the busyness and

865
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: the mayhem, but without being chaotic or without being busy myself,

866
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: you know. And for me that's been a real journey too,

867
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: because my mind is busy, busy mind. Not so much

868
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: an overthinking mind because that tends to be more.

869
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: Feared, but busy creative mind.

870
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: Busy creative, busy, you know, solving problems, coming up with ideas,

871
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: and you know, yesterday on the way back from Sydney

872
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: to Melbourne. I just had my notes open in my phone,

873
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: so just basically writing stuff electronically, and I literally came

874
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: up with about five potential ideas, new ideas for new

875
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: things that I definitely don't have time to do, but

876
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: I just put them with this collection of ideas and

877
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: thoughts that I have that I might, you know, open

878
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: the door on one day.

879
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: Well that's a technique in itself. And my iPhone's got

880
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: multiple notes and layers and folders, and the science behind

881
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 2: this is if you don't distill what's in your mind

882
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: and put it on the paper or put it onto

883
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: your digital format, it just circles around, so you're distracted.

884
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: And it's been like Homer Simpson with the monkey and

885
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: the symbol doing the backflip. So metacognition got it. Theory

886
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: of mine having more of an awareness of others. Then

887
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: we go up the next layer.

888
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: So up the next one, which is what we've already

889
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: covered to some extent, meta perception is what's it like

890
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: being around me? And again this is really this comes

891
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: from a space of or a place of wanting to

892
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: be able to create better interactions with others, to be

893
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: a better leader communicator, teacher, you know, employer, employee, athlete,

894
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: So that whoever it is that I'm interacting with, that

895
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm working alongside, that I can understand or have some

896
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: insight into what it's like being around me, just so

897
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: that we have better communication, we have better apport, we

898
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: have better connection. We can in work situations, you know,

899
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: figure things out, solve problems, resolve conflict, agree to disagree.

900
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: You know.

901
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I've got lots of friends who don't have a lot

902
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: of the same beliefs that I have around certain things,

903
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: But my friendship with them and my love for them

904
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: is not conditional upon them thinking like me. If that

905
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: were the case, I'd be living in an echo chamber

906
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: or confirmation bias we call it, and I'd only pay

907
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: attention to people who sound like me, believe like me,

908
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: and think like me, which would make me one an

909
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: ego maniac and two pretty lonely or essentially a cult member.

910
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think we have a lot

911
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: of cult members on this We might have one or two.

912
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: So majority of this audience aren't in cults and have

913
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: not been a cult member. Well, there are lots of

914
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: cults of thought, though you can identify cultka. You can

915
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: identify a cult of thought online very easy. And like

916
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: the irony is or I guess, and this is true

917
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: for me too. So I'm not saying, hey, I've figured

918
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: this out, nobody else has. I have to be really

919
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: prepared to hold onto my beliefs loosely, because you think

920
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: about beliefs and ideas that they are intertwined with who

921
00:49:54,760 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: we are. Then now my identity is tied in into

922
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: being right about that thing. Now, when I truly believe that.

923
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: When it comes to this issue or this question or

924
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: this topic, the thing that I think is right, therefore

925
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: everyone else in the world who disagrees with me on

926
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: this is wrong. That's kind of a dangerous position to have.

927
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,959
Speaker 1: And so like I grew up, as we've spoken many times,

928
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: in a very religious household, and subsequent to that went

929
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: and did a whole lot of other stuff in a

930
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: different version of the same religion. So I spent a

931
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: lot of my life reading the Bible, being philosophically theological,

932
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: you know. And so I have a very specific background

933
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: and training and programming and over the years, relationships and

934
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: all of this stuff that I was fully immersed in,

935
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: and now all of these years later, what I have

936
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: to what I have to say anyway, based on how

937
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: I now see the world and see myself in the world.

938
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: That truth is I don't know, like and people don't

939
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: like saying I don't know. But is there a God?

940
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: I don't know?

941
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: Is there is there a you know, eternity as we

942
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: understand it in the Christian sense?

943
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: I don't know.

944
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: Is the Bible, you know, really the inspired word of God?

945
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: I don't know.

946
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: But I can think things and believe things. But also

947
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: I have to be courageous and say this is what

948
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: I think, This is even.

949
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: What I believe. But could I be wrong? Yes, I

950
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: could be Could I be wrong? Yeap? What did they

951
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 2: let you into the monastery saying fucking your sermon? Well,

952
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 2: this is the thing? Did you swear back then? Because

953
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: you dropped the bomb a lot, and I even noticed

954
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: on the podcast I did with you, yes, like my

955
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: my fuck ratio went up. Yeah, of course, Now you

956
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: need to listen to the background to that. If Wizard

957
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 2: of You just do a bite size my fuck ratio

958
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: went up, that that might go off on the internet.

959
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: But because like it's just you's being authentic, So I

960
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: can't imagine you were swearing at that age.

961
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: No, so I so this is nobody needs to know this,

962
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: but Catholic Church. And I always, I don't know if

963
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: I ever told you this, but I always I had

964
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: all of these people coming into my life constantly telling

965
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: me that. And this is not even from within my circle.

966
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: But God's got his hand on your life, whatever that means.

967
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: God's got a purpose for you all these things. Anyway,

968
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: through a range of really kind of weird and wacky

969
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in weird and whacky events, I

970
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: ended up going to what was essentially a fundamental Christian church.

971
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: And you know, I was, for one of a better term,

972
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: balls deep. And I went to that church for about

973
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: four years, and I was nineteen to twenty three, maybe

974
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: five years, four or five years. And honestly, most of

975
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 1: it was good in that I learned about, you know,

976
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: like humility and purpose and a whole lot of things

977
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: that I needed to learn. And you know, I definitely

978
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: didn't master anything, but I I was a pretty good

979
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: student because I was genuinely curious about all of that.

980
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: But one of the byproducts of that is so for

981
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: five years, I didn't have sex, I didn't swear, I didn't.

982
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: I lived a very monastic, disciplined life.

983
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 2: And that's your late teens, early twenties. That's where people

984
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 2: literally come alive. Hormones are pulsing through your body and

985
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 2: with other people you're around. That's really that passage to adulthood. Yeah.

986
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: Well I was engaged to a woman I never slept with.

987
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend who became my fiance within the church,

988
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: and I was with her.

989
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 2: We didn't get married.

990
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: Obviously, I pulled the pin on that, which was, you know,

991
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, but also for her the

992
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: right thing to do. She dodged a bullet. Fuck imagine

993
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: marrying me, but that would have been a nightmare for her.

994
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: So that worked out well. She married somebody and is

995
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: living happily ever after, which is nice. But but for me,

996
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: that was just that was what was required.

997
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: I had no idea about that part of your life.

998
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: Did you do you talk about that normally? That part? Yeah,

999
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 2: very very committed. Yeah, yeah, whenever. It's just not that

1000
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: relevant that often. But my point is that like I

1001
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 2: grew up in a very a very specific model of

1002
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 2: thinking and believing and faith and behavior, right, and you

1003
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: are programmed, You are programmed. You are you know, I

1004
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: chose it all.

1005
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can't question much because

1006
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 1: if you, you know, like, if you question too much,

1007
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: you're out.

1008
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 2: Of the group. Like it is very mid a line

1009
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: in doctrination.

1010
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: Well, it was quite The church I was in was

1011
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: quite culty, right, and so it is very much an

1012
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: echo chamber of thinking and believing. The truth is in cults,

1013
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 1: be they food cults, religious cults, political cults, sporting cults,

1014
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: cults of ideology, any ideology, you are not encouraged to

1015
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: questioned the doctrine. You are discouraged. And not only are

1016
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: you discouraged from thinking critically, you are criticized and you

1017
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: are cast out into the metaphoric darkness. And so this

1018
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: is the problem that I have with any of these

1019
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: ideological cults of thought, is.

1020
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: That one of the reasons if I pull on that thread,

1021
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why you were so passionate about

1022
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: human behavior and connection and people having a voice and

1023
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: diversity because you had that block of life that wasn't

1024
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 2: Is that something you've reflected on and look back, is that, well, yeah,

1025
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: that is true.

1026
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: And there were questions that kept coming up for me

1027
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: in that time, which I was told well, I'll tell

1028
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: you what I was told. I was told that's the devil,

1029
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: that's Satan, trying to undermine God in your life and

1030
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: all of these things. And I'm like, oh, well, that

1031
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: kind of But the thing is also what people who

1032
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: are And I'm not saying that there was any sinister

1033
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: or a gender. I'd think all of the people they

1034
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: actually believed it and meant well, right. But you know,

1035
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: there are certain people who can say pretty much anything

1036
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: and back it up biblically. And this might sound weird

1037
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: to some of your listeners, but in certain environments you

1038
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: can make pretty much anything sound reasonable with the right

1039
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: scripture if you're talking to a vulnerable person, you know.

1040
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: And so for me, I wanted to go deeper than

1041
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: just thought. I wanted to open a spiritual door. I

1042
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: wanted to see what was there, what was beyond the

1043
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: cognitive curtain. And the thing is that, you know, this

1044
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: is maybe another day, but you think about when we

1045
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: open that door, and we kind of think about what

1046
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: is and this is getting out of the psychology in

1047
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: the cognition space, of course, but even there is there

1048
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: such a thing as a spiritual world, what does that

1049
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: even mean?

1050
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 2: And there's so.

1051
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: Many things that we will experience in a lifetime that

1052
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: don't make sense in inverted commas in psychology, and so

1053
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: we go, well, that's bullshit, that's not real.

1054
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's not real. Maybe it is real, maybe.

1055
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,399
Speaker 1: We just can't understand it with our understanding, with our

1056
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: frame of reference, with our version of what is real

1057
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: and what is not.

1058
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: This is what I love about a podcast, and you've

1059
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 2: taught me this too. I don't rock up. I would

1060
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: get anxiety rocking up with no script. But I've gone

1061
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: from having question one answer question two, which is a

1062
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: bit like a tennis game. I've got a running sheet here,

1063
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 2: and as I said at the start, three sort of

1064
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: loose areas. Number one, why are you so passionate about

1065
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: this topic? Number two, Let's dig into the science, and

1066
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: we've done that metacognition at the base theory of mind,

1067
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: metaperception and meta accuracy, and I've got a question on

1068
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: metaccuracy to wrap up. And then three I wanted to

1069
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: talk to you about transitions, but I had no idea.

1070
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: We talk about that, and I understand a lot more

1071
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: about you and what has driven you to do this,

1072
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing all that.

1073
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: I spent a long time studying and reading them. You

1074
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: would not believe how many scriptures I could recite, which

1075
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: nobody needs to hear. But yeah, like I studied it

1076
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: like somebody would study at PhD for years. Every day,

1077
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: pray every day, quiet time every day, read every day,

1078
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: study every day every day.

1079
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: There is a lot of there's a lot of good

1080
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: in prayer and with the Pacific boys. I told you

1081
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: this woman caught up last time. So NRL now is

1082
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: fifty four nearly fifty five Pacific or indigenous, much larger

1083
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: Pacific population. And when I was putting together a framework

1084
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: at the start of the year, so we talk about

1085
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: being in that peak performance zone inverted you. If you're

1086
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: feeling a bit tired or fatigued, you add some fire.

1087
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 2: If you're feeling a little bit too revved up, you

1088
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: add some eyes. So I put this nice model together.

1089
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: As you know, working with sporting teams, mate, you've got

1090
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: to have a science base or an evidence base, but

1091
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: keep as simple so the boys and the girls understand that.

1092
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 2: So we're doing all this work around fire and ice.

1093
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: It was really landing. What do you do to up regulate?

1094
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: What do you do to down regulate? And then one

1095
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 2: of the players come up and said, where's prayer. I'm like, ah,

1096
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: how remiss of me. So we've added prayer because prayer

1097
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: can be meditative and it can be calming effect. Or

1098
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: prayer can be tapping into purpose or a higher power

1099
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: to add a bit of heartbeat and add a bit

1100
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: of fire as well. So just surrounding that out for

1101
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: a lot of people who do listen. Obviously we're talking

1102
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: about extreme, but a lot of people will do prayer.

1103
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: And I say this to a lot of my Pacific boys,

1104
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: they go, I find it hard to meditate or do mindfulness.

1105
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: Do you go to church every Sunday? Yeah, just drop

1106
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: into being present in the moment and connect with your

1107
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: heart rate and just think about other stuff and just

1108
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: be in the moment without judgment. Now, transitions, Do you

1109
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: consciously transition from one thing to the next, Because when

1110
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: I look at your job description, it's pretty similar to mine,

1111
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: and you'll go from a podcast to a meeting about

1112
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: a future project or a book, and then you go

1113
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: to lots of workshops and you've got your hands and

1114
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: lots of different things. Do you have a process where

1115
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: you transition in and transition out? Because when I look

1116
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: at that model, that whole metaaccuracy. I can't help but

1117
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: think there's something you do either naturally or it's just

1118
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: started the process way way way back to transition and

1119
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: to actually think how do I transition into this group

1120
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: and how do I show up authentically but for what

1121
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: they need.

1122
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have any set transition kind of process, but.

1123
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 2: I be aware.

1124
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: I think about who I'm going to be with and

1125
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: why I'm going to be there, and what I want

1126
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: to do be create in the time that I'm with

1127
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,919
Speaker 1: that person or those people in that situation, like what's

1128
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: my reason for being there?

1129
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: Why do they want me there?

1130
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: You know, as long as I show up knowing why

1131
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm there and what are they Like yesterday I did.

1132
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: I told you I did a real estate industry conference

1133
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: in Manly, and I had basically quite a brief brief

1134
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: so to speak, the organizers, and you know, I could

1135
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: go wherever I wanted as long as I was talking

1136
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: around that subject and I know, and then I had

1137
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: a different brief for the gig that I did in

1138
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: the afternoon. But as long as I stay in that

1139
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: in that domain, then I'm okay. But I don't I

1140
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: don't have any big kind of preparation process or you know.

1141
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: And I I think, because I've been doing it for

1142
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: so long and talking for so long, I try not

1143
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: to open doors that I'm not really knowledgeable about or

1144
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: qualified in, because it's just if I don't know a

1145
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: fair bit about it or understand it, then I shouldn't

1146
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: be talking about it.

1147
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, I do.

1148
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: I find it quite easy to transition from podcasts to

1149
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: speaking gig, to coaching session to you know.

1150
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: Whatever, because it's for me, it's all just talking. Is that?

1151
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: Though I love that model you said before about the

1152
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 2: public you, the personal you, the private you, the secret you,

1153
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 2: and potential you, I can't but think if someone is

1154
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: very public when they transition from one thing to the next,

1155
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: it is a persona. And I openly say that I

1156
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: have a persona when I'm on a big stage. Got

1157
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: to bring a bit of the jazz hands. But I

1158
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 2: think what you're helping me understand to I love that

1159
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: you to call this episode something like Jazz Hands and

1160
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 2: metap Perception or something Jesus Jazz Hands and five years

1161
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: with no jeers, Jesus Jazz Hands and a less existence

1162
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 2: where I just cracking myself up of my own jokes.

1163
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 2: I'm doing harp jokes on my podcast.

1164
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: You know the other thing about five years with no Jeers,

1165
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: there really was five years with no jeers because the

1166
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: other way that that Jez happens, that wasn't endorsed either.

1167
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: So I think that's a whole different podcast in it

1168
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 2: something nobody needs to think about. Waited to almost the

1169
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: sixty minute mark, and people are just like similarly just

1170
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: choked on the haven't they. Let's go back to what

1171
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: I was talking about. Why have you gone red? That's

1172
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: coming on? Do you look so uncomfortable because do you

1173
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 2: need a glass of water or something? You're right, I

1174
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: don't know whether we've sort of gone with the secret

1175
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: or private. We're sort of dancing between the two halfs.

1176
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: Love the authenticity, mate, but that public face. Love the authenticity.

1177
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 2: But stopte it's we're talking about self awareness and metacognition.

1178
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: But and you're showing a really good example. It actually

1179
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: is a good example that you you said that before

1180
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: and lets it open the window. You go, all right,

1181
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: big fellow, bang here it is no whacking off for

1182
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 2: five years. Take that in your face. You're welcome world.

1183
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 2: But I just see there's there's almost no delineation between

1184
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 2: that for you, so you're showing us even in this conversation.

1185
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 2: And so from an energy shift, you don't need to

1186
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: shift energy because you're doing what's authentic. You're doing what

1187
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 2: fuels you, so you can be personal private in public.

1188
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 2: So there isn't a real need to ramp up. So

1189
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to catch up with that because I

1190
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: still teach. It's really important for corporates, especially before they

1191
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 2: go into a meeting, to transition because some matter up

1192
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: more performance moments, and I'll always go through a framework

1193
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 2: three questions, and it's very much sport and military influenced.

1194
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: Number one, who's in the room to what's the context?

1195
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: Number three what does success look like? And if you

1196
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: can ask those three questions before every meeting, podcast performance moment,

1197
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 2: you do pretty well what we miss. So a lot

1198
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: of people come out of that straight into the next thing.

1199
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a look back in the

1200
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: review mirror. Three more questions, what worked, what didn't? What

1201
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: can we improve next time? So sort of rolling between

1202
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 2: these performance moments. Yes, yes, look, yeah, I mean definitely

1203
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 2: I prepare in the sense that I'm well aware who

1204
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 2: I'm talking with and talking for and the outcomes that

1205
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: I want to create. But yeah, I try to bring

1206
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: that very comfortable energy too, you know, there's not so

1207
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: much rah rah, you know, and that works for me.

1208
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: But I think what's really important to say here too,

1209
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: is that so for anyone who is thinking about whether

1210
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 2: or not it's doing a pub having your own podcast,

1211
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: or becoming a presenter or a professional speaker or a coach,

1212
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: or the way that Andrew does it in the way

1213
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 2: that I do it, that's just the way that we

1214
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: do it. That's not the best way. That's what works

1215
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: for us.

1216
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: And I think that just like you know, we don't

1217
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,439
Speaker 1: say what's the best diet, we say what's the best

1218
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: diet for you based on you know, your body, your

1219
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: your training, your you know, your age or your genetic

1220
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: dispisition all of that, you know, So it's trying to

1221
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: find in the middle of all of this. You know,

1222
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: I've worked with other speakers who are so different to

1223
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: me but amazing. But I couldn't do what they do

1224
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: because I would be faking.

1225
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: It and they couldn't do what you do. E That's

1226
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 2: a flip side because you're you're in your lane, and

1227
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: so it's not like, oh, the Craig harp Away is

1228
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 2: the way. No, No, that's the way for me.

1229
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: It's like I also like, I do lots of things

1230
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: I do that work for me that I would not

1231
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: recommend for others because nobody is me but me.

1232
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 2: If I share kind of a revelation about how I

1233
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 2: do something and somebody wants to give that a go,

1234
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: that's fine, but there's no guarantee. You know.

1235
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 1: It's like I decided when I was twenty one or two,

1236
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want to have a.

1237
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 2: Job per se. I wanted to work for me. I

1238
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 2: didn't want a bus, I didn't want to go to work.

1239
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,479
Speaker 2: I didn't want to sit in a cubicle. I didn't

1240
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 2: want to wear a suit. I figured out all of

1241
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 2: these things I didn't want to do, and I'm like,

1242
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 2: what's the antidote to that? Well, the antidote is that

1243
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: I figure out how I can build something that's a

1244
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 2: synergy of making dough and having fun and learning and

1245
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 2: evolving and working with humans. And that's kind of what

1246
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 2: I did. But I've spent thirty four years.

1247
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: Not having holiday pay, not having sick pay, not having

1248
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: any guarantees, not knowing what I would make next month.

1249
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: You know, a whole lot of vulnerability and exposure that

1250
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: most people would not like at all, but I thrive

1251
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: in that. That's my jam. I love that shit. But again,

1252
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend it.

1253
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 2: You know. It's just like I eate two meals a

1254
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 2: day because that works for me, but it's not something

1255
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: I would recommend to people. So I think, you know,

1256
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 2: even with these podcasts, you know, lean in and listen

1257
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 2: and see what resonates, and then maybe if something resonates.

1258
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: You know, take that for a test drive and see

1259
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: what the outcome is. You know, because it's different things

1260
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: work for different people.

1261
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 2: Just go back to one open loop. There's many. I'll

1262
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 2: close one and then we'll start to bring this baby behind.

1263
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: On the speaking I've seen and I know you've seen

1264
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 2: as well. There's certain speakers. So you see them and

1265
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: they're on stage and it's a wonderful show. It really

1266
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 2: is persona and you watch it and go, oh, wonderful choreography,

1267
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: look up and the music starts or fade left, fade

1268
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 2: right and tell the story. You know where I'm going

1269
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 2: with this. We're probably thinking of some similar speakers. You

1270
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: see and you go, oh, that was awesome, and then

1271
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: you see them the second time and go where's you. Yeah.

1272
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 2: So for people listening to this, I think you're the

1273
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 2: extreme with respect on just free range. But you've done

1274
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: loads of fucking work, made decades and decades, so you

1275
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: can rock up and you are that you projected you,

1276
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: and it's that beautiful blend public personal, private, a little

1277
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 2: bit of secret every now and then, but it's the

1278
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: narrative you're happy with. We see some other people are

1279
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 2: so choreographed, probably so uncomfortable with the real them that

1280
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: they put on this persona and mask, and that's draining.

1281
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 2: It really is draining. So I think for people listening

1282
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 2: to this, just think where are you on that spectrum

1283
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 2: when you show up? Are you putting on the mask?

1284
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: Are you the phantom of the opera every single time?

1285
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 2: Or you're just rocking up as you probably for most

1286
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: people this summer in the middle. And I think one

1287
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: of the lessons for me in this this discussion with you, mate,

1288
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 2: is about well, where am I happy being? And you've

1289
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: said this on your podcast when you've interviewed me. I'll

1290
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: do a bit more prep and I'm a bit more

1291
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: jazz handy on that stuff as well. But I found

1292
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: the lame way that suits me. And it's taken a while.

1293
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 2: And I love the feedback you gave me before, and

1294
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: I felt it the last podcast we did, I felt

1295
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 2: we really connected. We did one a couple of years ago.

1296
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 2: I think I was more jazz hands sort of speaking

1297
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: at as well. As you get more comfortable in yourself,

1298
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's energy fueling rather than energy draining.

1299
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 2: So that's a real takeout from this conversation.

1300
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and I'm not pissing in your pocket. But

1301
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: you're You're great. And what is interesting is that you know,

1302
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how old you are.

1303
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 2: How old are you fifty or fifty one?

1304
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean this is interesting because you are getting better,

1305
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: not like, oh, you're just hanging in there. And I'm

1306
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: not saying this to pump you up in front of

1307
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: your audience, but the you that i've over the decades,

1308
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: you're better.

1309
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 2: Your skills are better.

1310
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: You're understanding your awareness, your self awareness, the way that

1311
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: you communicate, the way that you frame things and structure

1312
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: things and tell stories. You know, it's like you're better.

1313
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: And what's great is that at fifty one, you're still

1314
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: growing and learning at sixty I'm still growing and learning

1315
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: like this is not normal, but fuck normal, fuck typical,

1316
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: like you know, and it's not about that We've got

1317
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: to be you know this in this endless pursuit of excellence.

1318
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: But you know, I know that if I can keep learning, evolving,

1319
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: growing while enjoying the journey and being me and still

1320
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: having a degree of contentment and calm, but also side

1321
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: by side, were still a little ambition, then why not you.

1322
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 2: Know two things about one? Thank you? I still want

1323
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that it means a lot coming from you.

1324
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 2: And I was going to make a flippant joke, and

1325
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: that's a dubo boy me coming out going. He's giving

1326
01:10:58,360 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: me feedback. I've got to be a bit of a

1327
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 2: and not take it. But I'm going to sit in

1328
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: it and say thank you for someone I've looked up

1329
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 2: to for years and someone who's had a big influence

1330
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 2: on my life. You. I really appreciate that. And secondly,

1331
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: why not at fifty one or sixty one or seventy one,

1332
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 2: or if someone's listening to this and you're twenty one,

1333
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,640
Speaker 2: why not be in a stage of constant growth? And

1334
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 2: if we're going to get to one hundred, which I

1335
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: want to. I'm halfway there. And I just think on

1336
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 2: the mental skills side of my business, working with sporting

1337
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 2: teams and literally having the opportunity to work with great

1338
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: men and great women around the world. Now harps, I'm

1339
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 2: fucking loving it. But I'm just scratching the surface, mate,

1340
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: And I really can see in five years and that

1341
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 2: and even ten years, I'm going to have so much

1342
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 2: better experience and better skills and better service in that area.

1343
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: That shit keeps me awake at night.

1344
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is just backtracking about three minutes

1345
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,839
Speaker 1: you said cheers, no, no, no, you said something about

1346
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: the Phantom of the opera, the Phantom of the So

1347
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: the guy who is the Phantom, who played the Phantom

1348
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: on West End in London and in Australia. His name's

1349
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: Josh Pittman, and I coach him, I work with him. Yeah,

1350
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: he's awesome. And he has a podcast called Behind the

1351
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: Mask as well, which is just kicking off and it's

1352
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: it's really it's funny hearing you say that, and we

1353
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: talk about this mask and we've spoken, he and I

1354
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 1: are spoken. You should get him on Old chats him

1355
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 1: and see if you're interested.

1356
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 2: He'd love to. He's great mate. He's a high performer.

1357
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: He's a freak, but he's just a deep thinking, creative

1358
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: clever like deep you and him will go great.

1359
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 2: I said to him the other day.

1360
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: We're having a coffee and talking about I'm coaching him

1361
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,879
Speaker 1: a bit in doing some keynote speaking, right, I said,

1362
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 1: you know, And I said, look, sometimes you're going to

1363
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: be in a boardroom with ten people, and sometimes you're

1364
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: going to be you know, wherever in front of a

1365
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: thousand people. And you know, I said, what's the most

1366
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: you've ever sung in front of? And he goes ninety

1367
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: two and a half thousand, and I go, all right,

1368
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: well you've got me covered.

1369
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 2: Jeez, like live at nine. I was going to say

1370
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 2: it'd be a big sporting event.

1371
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, live singing in front of ninety two and

1372
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: a half thousand peral bet him singing in front of

1373
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 1: ninety two and a half it's performer, yeah, and persona

1374
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: and then he steps back into the person I bet

1375
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: it's scarce a shit out of him thinking of standing

1376
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: in a boardroom having an authentic, open, real conversation to

1377
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 1: ten people without the metaphorical mask, so I can see

1378
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: exactly the utility you have for Joel Well and also

1379
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: just on that same thing, similar thing like I love comedy, right,

1380
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,719
Speaker 1: I love I love There ain't that much great comedy

1381
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: around at the moment, but.

1382
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 2: I love making people laugh.

1383
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm hilarious by any means, but but

1384
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 1: I've always I've had this secret thing to get up

1385
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: and just do five minutes of an open mic. I

1386
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: am more terrified of doing five minutes of stand up

1387
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: comedy in front of twelve disintransted strangers than I am

1388
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: of doing pretty much anything else.

1389
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 2: All right, well, so you have a dart. No, no,

1390
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. No, no, listen, listen. I registered

1391
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 2: and people regular listeners have heard this. Before I went

1392
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 2: to KPMG, I wanted to scare myself because I've been

1393
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 2: in my comfort zone. And I enrolled in a four

1394
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 2: week comedy course and the final week was at Star

1395
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 2: City and you invited family members, friends, and you did

1396
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 2: a five minute open mind. I went to the first

1397
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: night and they got us up on stage and I

1398
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 2: didn't read the brief. Typical me, you'd understand this, and

1399
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 2: I just rocked up, thinking they'll get to talk to us.

1400
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 2: And then they said, all right, now we're going to

1401
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 2: get everyone up and just do one or two minutes,

1402
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: and we're going to look at the progress and we're

1403
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 2: going to film you. And I went first. He said,

1404
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: all right, do you It was I feel uncomfortable listening

1405
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 2: fu awful. I wanted to some sort of keynote presentation,

1406
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 2: which is funny with context, like I wouldn't say that

1407
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 2: I'm hilarious, but I think I'm situational funny or slapstick funny,

1408
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 2: so I know how to make a crowd laugh. I

1409
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 2: did that, and you could hear crickets cricket. So guess

1410
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 2: what I did? What did you do? I didn't go back?

1411
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 2: I used. I used the excuse that I just started

1412
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 2: at KPMG. So when you say that, I will, at

1413
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 2: some stage get the balls and go back because I

1414
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 2: don't want to be a comedian, but I talk regularly,

1415
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 2: as you do, to people about getting out of that

1416
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 2: comfort zone. So I've got to go back and do that.

1417
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 2: So I'd love you to do it. I think it

1418
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 2: would seem like scare the shit out of here, but

1419
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 2: there'd be a big learning in it.

1420
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: Well, see when you've got a warm audience. Right, you're

1421
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: there and you're doing something and a group is there

1422
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: to hear you, right, and you're not there to be funny. Well,

1423
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: then you can be incidentally funny and they laugh. But

1424
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: people are not there for that purpose. But when you're

1425
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,440
Speaker 1: a comedian, well make us laugh, dumbass.

1426
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 2: It's like it's such a skill. I've seen Lawrence Mooney

1427
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 2: probably more than any other comedian and just so clever

1428
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 2: and deprecating and takes the piss and you can see

1429
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: the theory. There's a formula there. It scares the shit

1430
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: out of me getting up on stage and doing that.

1431
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't be doing it anytime soon. You can

1432
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: just tell us how you go.

1433
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for today. Thanks mate, it's been great. I

1434
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 2: love it. For people who want to get more of

1435
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: Harp's the best way to find you listen to you?

1436
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 2: Where should they go?

1437
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: So maybe just the You Project, which is my podcast,

1438
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: or I'm actually going to launch some public events in

1439
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: the next week or so. You can find those on

1440
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: my website which is just Craig Harper dot net. And

1441
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: I'm quite prolific on Instagram, which is just Craig Anthony

1442
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: Harper or.

1443
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 2: One word good work on the public ones. Are you

1444
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:55,719
Speaker 2: doing that yourself or you're doing it with the events

1445
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 2: doing that?

1446
01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: Melissa, who runs my life and who's much smarter than me,

1447
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: she's putting all those up. So we are running them.

1448
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 1: The U Project is my company, so we're running them,

1449
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:12,759
Speaker 1: and I'm doing I'm doing a big Melbourne workshop Brisbane,

1450
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: Melbourne and one in Rural Victor Rural esh Bend you go.

1451
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm doing a kind of a

1452
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: half day workshop called Understanding You.

1453
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 2: I really like it. It's new content. I'm really excited

1454
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 2: about it. And then I do these other things where

1455
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 2: I go into state this is a bit cheeky. I shouldn't.

1456
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 2: I shouldn't pull back the curtain. But I'll tell you.

1457
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: So when I've got Sometimes when i've got a corporate gig,

1458
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: say on a Friday, I'll go up the Thursday and

1459
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: I'll do what I call a private workshop for say

1460
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: thirty people where I'm staying, so I'll book a boardroom,

1461
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: and the night before my corporate gig, I'll just I'll

1462
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,759
Speaker 1: do a thirty person private workshop, twenty to thirty people,

1463
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: so it's small, it's intimate, and I spend about three

1464
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: and a half hours with people and it's you know,

1465
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: there's a bit of presenting, but it's more organic where

1466
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: people can just ask me stuff and we can go

1467
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: wherever we go. So I've been doing those a fair

1468
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: bit as well, and they're fun. I like those because

1469
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's very intimate and I'm used

1470
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: to being on a stage, but it's not that.

1471
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 2: It's probably given you a whole lot of different material

1472
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 2: as well, the reps and sets to now do the

1473
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,639
Speaker 2: half day, So there's been method in that process. Yes, yes,

1474
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 2: so all that more. Love your work mate, love you,

1475
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 2: and thank you for making me blush.

1476
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 1: I love you too, be boy, it's great seeing you

1477
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: that shade of Crimson. It was worth it just for that.

1478
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 2: Thank you very much