WEBVTT - Abbie Chatfield: Drama, dating and Donald Trump 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.760 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.960 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.080 down with some of the biggest names in the country 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.560 because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.840 to Something to talk about. Being investigated by the Australian 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.319 Electoral Commission was not on Abby Chatfield's BINGO card for 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.800 twenty twenty five, but after interviewing Anthony Albanesi and former 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.080 Green's leader Adam Bant on her podcast HiT's a Lot, 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.880 Abby found herself at the center of several conversations about 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:41.880 the recent federal election campaign. 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:43.360 In fact, some. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.000 Days at scene there were more headlines written about Abby 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.960 than they were about either the Prime Minister or then 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:50.839 Opposition leader Peter Dutton. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.640 When women do more than one thing, they're deemed as 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:55.880 inft at all the. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:56.560 Things they do. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.920 But when men do more than one thing, it's like, wow, 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.240 he's a footed player, can read an autocube. 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:02.120 Whereas women. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.920 If I am on reality TV show, I host a 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.959 reality TV show, I have a podcast, I do radio, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.759 I do all these things, then I must be good 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.520 at nothing. Because if I'm a reality TV show host, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.160 I can't only think about politics. If I think I 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.360 don't have politics, how could I be funny enough to 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.440 have a radio show. If I have a radio show, 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.440 I'll be actually this influencer. And it feels like people 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:25.840 think it's a zero sum game. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.720 Today Abby sits down with me in the Something to 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.920 Talk About studio to unpack her decision to speak out 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.160 about politics and the double standards in play when it's 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.880 a young, famous woman on the Internet who dares to 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.319 do so. We also talk about life and love as 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.120 she prepares to turn thirty, what it's like to be 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.240 in the middle of a very public feud, whether or 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.600 not we might see her mum on The Golden Bachelor. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.280 Abby Chatfield, Welcome back to the Stellar podcast. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.600 Thank you back again for our yearly catch up. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.760 I was gonna say this is how I get to 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.440 catch up with you once a year. 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:00.000 It seeks down. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.800 We have a little conversation with annoying microphones in the way, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.760 but then it's the cover of Stellar. So it has 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.799 been almost a year between Stellar covers. A lot has 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.120 been going on, a lot to unpack you and me. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.440 But I want to actually throw forward a little bit 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.519 because later this month June you've a milestone birthday coming. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.520 Up, thirty thirty. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.440 Oh my goodness, how are you feeling about the Big 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:23.120 three zero? 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.560 So excited. I've never been one to be scared about aging. 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.960 I've never really understood people that are freaked out about it. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.640 I actually I've even tried to because of societal pressure 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.600 and expectations. Everyone's like, oh, don't ask my age. I 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.400 go why, I'm happy that I've made it to thirty. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:44.680 Very exciting, And I don't know. I love aging because 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:46.920 every year you look back and how they say, if 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.880 you cringe it yourself a year ago, then you're making progress. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.000 Like every year, I think that I get better and smarter, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.160 as everyone does. I think you learn more, you understand more, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.480 and you look back at things you did a year 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.200 ago and you go, wow, what basic thought or what 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.559 a basic thing that I did, or you know, even emotionally, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.000 what an awful relationship I was in four years ago 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:08.000 because I hadn't done. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:08.800 The work or whatever. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.560 And I'm excited to be thirty. I'm everyone in my 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.239 lives is their thirties are the best. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.200 So I can't wait. 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:16.280 Thirties are great. 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.720 And I think something else that happens with a lot 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.320 of people when you have a birthday is apart from that, 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.680 particularly for women, it's like, oh my goodness, I'm running 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.800 out of time of getting old or where's the time gone? 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.200 Is that a lot of people think what have I 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.000 been doing? But for you, Abby, I know it always 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.440 looks different from the outside, but they're surely that couldn't 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.320 be one of the when you have that cringe, god. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:38.920 Cringe moment. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.800 I would imagine one of the things for you, surely 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.200 is not I haven't done enough stuff. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.720 Yes, definitely not that. That definitely is not a thought 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.000 that crosses my mind. Because his whole career was kind 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:50.720 of an accident. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:51.040 You know. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.280 I was a property analyst and then I went on 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.120 The Bachelor as a joke and then this all kind 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.440 of happened. So it's sort of like when you and 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.520 this might say depressing, but when you have no goals 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.880 to reach, you can't really fail at those goals. Not 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.800 in that you should do nothing, but in that everyone 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:09.240 you know, people ask me, what are you going to 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:10.120 do in five years? 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.960 What's next? Ta da da, and I go, I'd love 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:13.240 to know. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.240 I have no idea, And yeah, I've been so lucky 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.640 to do so many different things just for yapping. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.480 Because you would never have been able to brew Dick 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.040 five years ago if somebody had said that to you. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.240 Where are you going to be in five years? 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.520 Because five years ago was when The Bachelor was I 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.280 just finished airing was covid? 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:31.920 Oh my god, it was covid five years ago? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.280 And I just started the podcast and I thought, you know, 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.360 maybe I got a hundred listens whatever something to do 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.400 in lockdown and yeah, now it's going really well, and 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:45.480 I interviewed the Prime Minister. It's crazy and the formula 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.280 of the Greens Adam band and it's just a very yeah, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.440 I'm very happy with all that I've done, and I'm 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.800 very excited for a holiday in between all that I've done. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.360 To come back and possibly do more. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:58.920 Let's see, good way to spend a thirtieth birthday, I 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.680 think is a holiday? Yes, But that partly why I 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.400 wanted to speak to you today was because of a 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.640 lot of issues that came up during the federal election 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.760 and I thought I'd really love to sit down and 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.360 chat to Abby about some of this. And I've got 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.159 a few headlines here that came up, for instance, during 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.480 the election, and Abby when you just said, couldn't. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.159 Have predicted anything. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.240 When you look back to your unexpected career and being 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.960 catapulted into the spotlight after being the runner up on 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.159 the Bachelor in the twenty nineteen series, very few people, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.839 I imagine yourself included, would have predicted that I would people 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:39.479 like me would want to sit down with you in 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.640 twenty twenty five, and the first thing I want to 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.320 talk about is politics, your. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.279 Role and commentary around the federal election. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.400 I I mean, very exciting that we get to talk 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.159 about this, but I just want to say before anyone 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.679 has to go with me, everyone is acting like I think. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:56.679 I'm a political expert. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.800 Everyone's like she thinks she's she thinks she's she gonna 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:00.680 get to politics at it. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:02.600 And it's just it's not that I think I'm a 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:03.320 political expert. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.760 It's that I have a big platform and I have 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.480 certain beliefs and I just voiced those beliefs. So everyone 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.640 holds me to the standard of being a political expert 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.960 or a political commentator quote unquote. If I wanted to 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:16.520 do that, I would get into a newsroom, or I 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.360 would I would get into politics. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:19.520 I would try to get into politics. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.320 I just wanted to use my platform to talk about 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.360 politics because it was a very important time and currently 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.320 globally with the far right movement getting bigger and bigger. 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.080 Although it's at the time, let's say at the time 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.880 earlier this year, it wasn't looking good in terms of 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.040 far right fascist movements overtaking the world. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.480 And now slowly like Canada has rejected it. We've rejected it. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:47.840 I think it was Romania, so another slowly we're seeing 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.960 a rejection of it. But at the time it was 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.880 more panic induced. It wasn't that I thought I was 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:53.880 some political expert. Just before we get into this, I 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.560 just want to clarify that because everyone seems to, oh, 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:57.520 you're an expert on everything. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.240 Now it's like, no, I just have ADHD and talk 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:01.640 a lot well. 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.760 When I just introduced you for this episode of the 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.800 Stellar podcast, I did not identify you as political commentator. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.800 When people listen to it's a lot the artwork is 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.000 not shot with Parliament Housing Canberra in the background, but 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.480 you are daring to weigh into these issues. I will 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.040 just touch upon some of those headlines I mentioned a 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.480 few minutes ago. Here just a sample, because quite frankly, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.520 you generated probably more headlines than Anthony Alperansi or Peter 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.360 Dudd and put together. Abbi Chatfield joins Green's push to 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.680 keep Dunn out in new ad. Abbi Chatfield post to 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.640 be probed by Australian Electoral Commission. Abbi Chatfield cleared of 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.160 wrongdoing by AEC after interviewing Anthony Albanesi on her podcast. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.320 Abbi Chatfield despairs as her political hero, Greens leader Adam 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:55.000 Bant faces election defeat. ABC believe Abbi Chatfield is the 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.280 way to go for Australia's political debates. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.480 I mean, as I say. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.360 The fact that you became a player, not because you 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.040 were saying Okay, here's political commentator, here's political heavyweight. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.640 Abby Chatfield's verdict on it. 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:15.400 You were using a platform to interview people, make commentary. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.720 No one's saying that anyone has to agree with anyone, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.440 but the oxygen. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.080 That it created. How did that sit with you? 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:25.400 Oh? 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.480 It's so annoying because what happens is, as you probably 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.480 know more than anyone, I feel as though there's this 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:38.040 thing with me, in particular with the mainstream Australian media 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.920 where I do anything and suddenly it's as though like 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.120 I was saying before I think that I'm an expert, 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:44.360 when it's actually just. 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:46.640 Journalists. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.040 Is that term lightly when it comes to daily mail 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.319 people who are writing articles knowing that we'll get engagement, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.760 because if there's a headline saying that I seem to 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.560 think that I know anything about politics, it'll get negative 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.040 engagement and maybe positive engagement as well for people that 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.560 like me and follow me, but mainly negative engagement. And 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.680 there's this flooding of headlines about me, then people think 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.280 that I'm an expert about They think that I think 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.520 that I'm an expert actor, so I'm there writing all 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:18.760 the articles about myself, when in reality, I just wanted 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:25.480 for my audience to understand the literal basics of the election, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.120 like how preferential voting works, or. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.160 The difference between labor and liberal. 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.120 Because around this time I was also doing Married at 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.520 First Sight recaps, so I had this whole new audience. 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.439 And I would have done it regardless, but I think 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.480 it was really good to bring an audience that hadn't 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.880 ever thought about the election that were coming for pop 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.720 culture stuff and for them to realize, oh, I shouldn't 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.400 just do I don't know a throw I shouldn't do 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.640 a throwaway vote. I shouldn't just go, oh, labor and 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.880 liberal the same, it doesn't matter. I should think about independence. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.920 I shouldn't listen to American oric saying that it's a 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:02.640 wasted vote if you go it from an independent or 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.880 Greens or a smaller party, a minor party. So it 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.559 was me just trying to get my audience to understand 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.800 basics and understand even just that there is a vote compass, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.440 very basic stuff, and then suddenly it's turned into this 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:24.280 and the AEC stuff was just a whole other level 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:32.160 of I believe discrediting smaller voices, but also discrediting outspoken 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.040 young women. And it seems to be in media. When 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.720 women do more than one thing, they're deemed as inept 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.200 at all the things they do, but when men do 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.080 more than one thing, it's like, wow, he's a footy 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.080 player and he can read an AUTOQ, whereas women. If 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880 I am on reality TV show, I host a reality 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.640 TV show, I have a podcast, I do radio, I 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.800 do all these things, then I must be good at nothing. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.000 Because if I'm a if I'm a reality TV show host, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.719 I kin't only think about politics. If I think I 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:03.880 don't even have politics. How could I be funny enough 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.000 to have a radio show. If I have a radio show, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.920 i'll be Actually it's an influencer. And it feels like 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.199 people think it's a zero sum game. And this is 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.840 why these headlines frustrate me so much, because it's positioning 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:20.360 me as having an ego about politics, but also as oh, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.680 she's trying to be an expert on something new. It's like, 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.000 I just I'm literally asking questions. I'm interviewing people as 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.800 you are now. I'm literally inquiring, And yeah, it's quite frustrating. 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.959 And like I said, the AEC thing was the most 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:40.760 frustrating and made me very feel really targeted, as I 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.719 feel that I'm oft an a scapegoat for a lot 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.440 of these center right or right wing or conservative or 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.640 older audiences in terms of the media because of how 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.839 the media portrays me as being the spokesperson on things 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.599 and they go, oh, she's talking again, you know what 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.840 I mean, it's this weird cycle. So that's how I 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:00.000 felt about the certain line. 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.520 There's a lot of fascinating threads of that chat that 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.480 I'd like to pursue. One of them would be the 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.040 gender aspect that you raised there and Hannah Ferguson, the 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.959 founder of Cheek Media. She recently addressed the National Press 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.680 Club and she said influenza has been the dirtiest word 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.840 of this campaign. The agenda is clear to undermine our intelligence, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.280 to pain us as untrustworthy. There's nothing wrong with being 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.120 an influencer, but the label is intended to cause significant 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:34.920 reputational damage. The impact is deeply misogynistic. Would you agree 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.240 with that gender aspect of it? Do you think there 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:43.920 is a sexist or potentially even misogynistic component to the response? Yeah. 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.280 I wrote an article about this in twenty twenty, actually 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:51.079 about how influencer is. At the time, I felt as 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:55.559 though it was a very gendered insult, almost as times 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.160 gone on. Personally, if someone wants to call me influencer 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.600 and as an insult, I don't personally care, but I 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.199 do care about the impact on other women and on 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.320 the industry as a whole. So it's kind of like 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.199 the whole idea of slutshaming. This is how I see it. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.240 I don't personally care if someone calls me a slut 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.760 because I go, well, I don't have any shame in 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.760 sleeping with lots of people, right I personally have no shame, 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.600 but I don't like slut shaming in terms of how 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.600 it impacts women and how it is a patriarchal idea 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.400 that's really enforced. Same with influencing, it seems to be 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.479 throughout time whenever women dominate industries, it's then discredited and undermined, 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:38.440 even things like teaching and nursing, incredibly important industries the 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.719 backbone of our society really that is continue undermined in 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.480 terms of their pay package, in terms of where they're 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.880 treated by patients and parents, and the disrespect they get. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:50.960 And I believe. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.920 That's because it's predominantly women that are doing it, and 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.959 it's also assumed that women should be the natural caretakers 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.960 when it comes to influencing. I don't think that just 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:05.040 discrimination is as intense as it is towards women who 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.360 are literally saving lives and literally educating in the future. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:08.600 I'm not going to claim that I'm on the same 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.559 level as a teacher or nurse, but I do think 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:16.520 it's a similar repeated notion that women are dominating. We 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.120 earn more money than men in this industry. We have 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.880 a louder voices, we have bigger platforms. Women are the 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.440 main spenders and the main engagers in podcasting and in 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.960 social media, so then it's seen as lesser value. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.160 It's also funny. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:35.920 I think Hanna said it's on her podcast or it 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.520 may be in her press club, and it is also 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.880 my friend so love her so much. She I think 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:44.320 she was saying maybe it was over dinner with me. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.040 I can't remember when she was saying this. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.080 Because she's the same all the time. She's wonderful at 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:48.400 the time. 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.920 But Mark Boris, for example, he would never be called 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.320 an influencer. He's a business owner first, for sure. But 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.200 there are many business owners. For example, Brittany Lee Saunders, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.440 she has that incredible business fate. I think think women 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.600 call her the business owner, but I think everyone sees 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.360 her as an influencer or a YouTuber. It's kind of 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.520 like that's the lowest common denominator. And I think in 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.120 this election that was even more so the case. These 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.840 far right men who are posting about restricting abortion access, 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:22.400 or these men that are doing mocking videos of me 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.400 which was all over my for you page, that are 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.040 far right, and they're blatantly openly misogynistic. They openly don't 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.480 want women to have rights and immigrants to have rights 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.680 and people who are pressed have rights, First nations people, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.720 Yet they're not called influencers. They called commentators, they called 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.600 media personalities. Yet me, someone who's hosted TV shows, radio, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.640 I've done every medium you can do, Yet I'm an 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.560 influencer when it comes to politics. So it is quite 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:56.800 reductive and dismissive. But personally, my theory is anyone that 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:02.720 has an issue with influences for a sexist reason, I think, well, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.520 if you're offered money to post on the Internet, you 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:07.400 would take it and you would then be an influencer. 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:08.400 So I think with a. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.200 Lot of these men it comes from jealousy of not 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.600 being able to hone in on that aspect. Obviously, others 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.480 don't like influences for other reasons whatever. When it comes 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.520 to the sexism and misogyny, I think that it's a 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:25.600 very easy way to discredit women and also undermines how 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.600 much intelligence and full thought and planning and kind of 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.880 business mind it takes to have a following that is 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.960 dedicated and engaged enough to monetize or a podcast, and 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.640 we're talking about before how much effort it takes it 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.920 in the podcast people. Actually, so you rock up and 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.320 you yap and you go home, and it's hours and 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.840 hours and hours of work, and it's work that. 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.560 We enjoy doing, but it's not just nothing. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.560 And then I think, sorry, I'm going I'm going on, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:50.800 but I have so many thoughts about this. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.600 Then I think about, you. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.120 Know, the whole idea of we'll influencing isn't a real 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.400 job and it should be dismissed because you could quote 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.359 don't work, which okay, I've had a nine to five job. 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.760 I've done radio, TV, everything that I could do, and 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:12.160 I would say I will. I personally work more hours 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.400 doing this job. That doesn't mean that I work more 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.840 hours than everyone else has a normal job. Personally, how 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.960 I operated in a nine to five I would sleep 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:20.720 on night boss's desk and I would go for lunch 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.480 from one till four. So personally, my work ethic is 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.280 better doing influencing. That doesn't mean it's a harder job, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.639 but I do work. But also if someone thinks I 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.640 didn't work, that's fine. My issue then comes with why 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.000 do we then have to work ourselves to a bone 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.560 to prove the way worthy of having a platform or 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.240 having a voice. I think it's fine to think the 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.560 influencers don't work enough because the pay is completely out 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.360 weighs the actual hour's input. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:47.280 Absolutely. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.360 But when you say that influencing isn't a real job, 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.800 even though I mean the ATO fucking thinks it does. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.959 Jesus Christ, the ATO is on my back all the time. 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.560 But it really makes out like our only worth comes 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.440 in a real job, only exists if you're working yourself 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.040 to the bone. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.520 Which is a whole other conversation about capitalism. 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.159 But I'll let you ask me other question because I've 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:11.879 been talking for forty five minutes. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.919 Well, everything you say, there's like five other things that 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:16.040 I want to ask about. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.120 But I'll go back actually to. 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.240 When you was saying you wrote about this five years ago, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.879 about the sexism inherent in the way that we dismiss 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.320 women or try to put labels on Well, you're getting 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:32.200 a little bit too. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:32.920 Big for your boots. 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.080 There as somebody that feels sometimes closer to one hundred and. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.840 Thirty than turning thirty. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.359 I remember when Julia Gillard became Prime Minister in twenty ten, 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.679 and in that time she would sometimes she had a 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.880 morning tea where there were god, I mean, race yourselves 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.000 people from women's media quote unquote there who were being 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.800 called mummy bloggers at the time. So fifteen years ago 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.200 that was the parlance blogger, is this mummy blogers that? 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.520 And I remember writing about it thinking well, why is 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.920 that any different to you previous prime ministers like John 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.960 Howard going and having mourning tea with the Australian cricket team. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.520 This is a photo opportunity. They're talking about serious issues. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:21.120 They're going on speaking to different high profile figures and 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.520 as you say, that's an exchange of ideas. Is that 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.359 this not what we want from our elected representatives. We 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.520 want them to be representing the entire country, which by 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.240 the way includes a few women. Maybe what everyone will 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.040 you may want to remember, So mummy blogger, I feel 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.360 was weaponized in the way that the phrase influencer has 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.119 been during this recent federal election. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:47.440 That's really interesting. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.040 I was in grade ten when that was happening, so 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.959 I didn't know about this bummy blogger era. You're so 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.040 right about politicians need to speak to the everyday Australian 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.280 and we put a threshold on who was allowed to 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:07.240 be engaged in political conversation that only allows a certain 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.639