1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: From the newsroom a news still come today. Gooday there, 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Buckalo. We've got a great mix of articles 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: online for you today at news dot com a dot au. 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: One of my favorites is a story about radio star 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: Jackie Oh. She has detailed her wild night inside a 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Berlin sex club. Yes, a sex club, where she obviously 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: witnessed a fair bit of hanky panky. Hard to say. 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Jimmy and I were watching on the seat opposite them. 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: I know that sounds really creepy. 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: We were sitting there watching this. 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: We both said, I'm really horny. Now I'm not telling you. 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: It's a real turn on. Speaking of turn ons, plenty 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: of engines are getting turned on in Melbourne today for 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: the Australian Grand Prix. My god, that is the worst 15 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: segue I've ever done in my life. I apologize. Plenty 16 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: of races over the next few days in Melbourne for 17 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: the big GP on Sunday. Our sports team have done 18 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: up a gallery of all the F one team changes 19 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: over the past couple of months because it is honestly 20 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: hard to figure out who is racing for who these days, 21 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: so if you're into F one, make sure you check 22 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: that out. Another story we've got online is a fascinating 23 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: one about what is going on in America. Some experts 24 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: are saying that the US is headed for a Soviet 25 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: style collapse. Obviously Trump doesn't agree. 26 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: I'm a very optimistic person. I'm optimistic for the country. 27 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: We're going to take a deeper look at that story 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: in this episode. We'll find out why the experts think 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: what they think, and what a US collapse would actually 30 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: look like. Joining me now is news dot Com Dot 31 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: You contributor Jamie seed Or. He's a terrific writer and 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: his latest piece is about the US possibly being on 33 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: track for a Soviet style collapse. Good Jamie Howe, a. 34 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: Very well, thank you, All things considered. 35 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a pretty big topic you've covered here. Firstly, 36 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: there are some people listening right now who probably don't 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: know much about the Soviet Union. So I'm going to 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: do my best to give them a quick summary. If 39 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: I stuff anything up, you let me know, Okay. So 40 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: the USSR or the Soviet Union, was established in nineteen 41 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: twenty two and eventually grew to include fifteen republics before 42 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: it finally collapsed in nineteen ninety one. 43 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: This is CNN Breaking News. 44 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 3: Good evening. I'm Geen Randall in Washington. We're standing by 45 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: for an oval office addressed by President Bush as he 46 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: contributes to today. Even historians may have trouble describing a 47 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: day when Mikhaile Gerbachov resigned as the president of a 48 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: Soviet Union which had already ceased to exist. The new 49 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: power broker, Russian President Boris Elson. In a state minisuod 50 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: a short time ago, President Bush praised GERBACHROFV for what 51 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: he called his years of sustained. 52 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: Commitment to world peace. 53 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 3: He also spoke of his intellect, vision and courage. The 54 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: two men spoke by phone before Groberschoff delivered a televised 55 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 3: resignation speech. Mister Bush will look ahead to a future 56 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: of dealing with the new Commonwealth of independent states, and 57 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: we are told now the President will go ahead with 58 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: formal recognition of those republics, notably Russia. 59 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: Now, after the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia became the success 60 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: of state, while other former Soviet republics became independent nations, 61 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: including Estonia, Ukraine, Lithuania and Armenia. Jamie, the big question, 62 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: why did the Soviet Union collapse? 63 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure There's so much to this which I 64 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: can't compress into five minutes, but essentially, Russians stop believing 65 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: in Russia. That's the general argument, is that, you know, 66 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: there's always this sort of social contract with any form 67 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: of government that you get prosperity, you get peace, you 68 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: get an easy life, and when these things stop happening, 69 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: then you start to question the very essence of your life. 70 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: Are those laws balid? Are those laws real? It's this 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: person telling me what to do, telling me what's best 72 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: for me, or telling me what's best for themselves. And 73 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: after decades of wars, decades of being told how wonderful 74 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: everything was under Communist in Russia, people just stop believing. 75 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: In generally all right, So they lost the support of 76 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: the people, I guess, And now there are fears that 77 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: America could be on a similar path. Who is saying 78 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: this and what are their arguments? 79 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: Well, oddly enough, I mean this story was inspired by 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: an associate professor of history by the name of James Crackvile. 81 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: He's from McGill University in Canada. So given current affairs 82 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: now Canada's had twenty five percent tarist slaped on it, 83 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: you can probably understand why a Canadian professor's sort of 84 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: wondering what Hall's going on their neighbor to the south. 85 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: On top of that, though, the US has to also 86 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: bear in mind that the fact that Canada is the 87 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: only nation that they've actually defeated the United States at 88 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: the war they went down and burnt the White House 89 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 2: on the ground back in the good old days, should 90 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: we say so? Yeah, He's drawing a parallel with the 91 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: Soviet Union in saying that the mythology that the Soviet 92 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: Union was built on was around was built around Vladimir 93 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: Lenin and his concept of communism, and that was the 94 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: defining narrative of all of the nation's education, media, government, 95 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: Everything was justified by pointing to how enlightened and correct 96 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: Lenin was and communism was. And he's run parallels with 97 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: the US Constitution. This holds a similar sacred place in 98 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: the hearts of Americans, and that it's been used to 99 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: justify so much of an American way of life and 100 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 2: so many decisions, good and bad of American governments. And 101 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: now that mythology built up around the Constitution is starting 102 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: to fall apart because everyone's disagreeing over what the Constitution actually. 103 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: Says, are we talking about like the Supreme Court here 104 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: and their interpretation of the Constitution and the effects it's 105 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: having on America's laws? 106 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: Very much so. So it's it's about how far can 107 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: the president go? Are they basically king in all but name? 108 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: Or how far can the Congress go? How far can 109 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: the Senate go? How independent judges? How independent are police agencies? 110 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: Should the federal government be funding things like education and 111 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: health care and pensions? So all these things which people 112 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: have felt were sketched out in the Constitution being reinterpreted 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: or at least and renalyzed, And naturally different agendas have 114 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: different opinions. 115 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: I guess if more and more people in America are 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: feeling like these laws are going against them and are 117 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: making their life harder. I mean, we've seen some laws about, 118 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, a woman's right to choose in terms of 119 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: abortion and stuff like that. Obviously, the economy is not 120 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: looking so good over there in the US at the 121 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: moment because of some changes that Trump has made. So 122 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: the fear is that the people could almost turn on 123 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: the government, turn on Trump, and potentially the US could 124 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: collapse in the next few years. 125 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean that's historians naturally like wing it 126 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: the big picture. Historians naturally get distracted by the fact 127 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: that they deal with very big pictures. So, you know, 128 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: a dramatic event like the collapse of the Soviet Union, 129 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: the collapse of the Roman Empire, the collapse of the 130 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: Bronze Age civilization, these are all things that actually sit 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: high in historians minds and post analysts lines. It's always 132 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: different on the ground, though, it's a very different perspective, 133 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: and looking at something like the fall of the Soviet 134 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: Union with eager e at hindsight is very different to 135 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: looking at it as it was unfolding whereatally people saw 136 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: that what was coming. So yeah, look, I guess it's 137 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: a matter of history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. 138 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: And when we say that, we basically mean that you 139 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: start to look for these common threads in these different 140 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: historical events. And I guess the common thread that Associate 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: Professor Krapfell is pointing to here is the way that 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: a society loses faith in the glue that holds its 143 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: society together. 144 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: Well, if the US did have a Soviet style collapse, 145 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: what exactly would that look like? Are we talking about 146 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: like a civil war breaking out? Are we talking about, 147 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, another country taking over, or like California becoming 148 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,119 Speaker 1: an independent state and separating from the rest of the US. 149 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: All of the above, I suppose this is the point 150 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 2: that we don't know. Russia got closest in the war. 151 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: There was some tanks rolled out into the streets of 152 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: Moscow and a few hot shots taken at the Kremlin, 153 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: but ultimately the Communists that realized that they were willing 154 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: truly outnumbered, and they ran overseas. When it came to 155 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: something like Rome and the Bronze Age, well again it 156 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 2: was everything from Civil War people just walking out all 157 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: of a sudden. People didn't have armies all of something, 158 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't have tax collectors, and because well prepared for the hills. 159 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: So who can say we're seeing signs. We're seeing states 160 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: and US councils their equivalents talking about creating their own 161 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: new states or separating from the United States. We've been 162 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: hearing a lot of rsturic over the past couple of 163 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 2: decades or past decade of national divorce has been a 164 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: concept which basically means the collapse in the United States. 165 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Stick around one with Jamie in just a moment, welcome back. 166 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: I'm chatting to news dot com dot Au contributor Jamie 167 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: Seed all about this great piece is written for our 168 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: site about is the US on track for a Soviet 169 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: style collapse? Jamie, like all good journalists, you cover both 170 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,599 Speaker 1: sides of the story. You interviewed some experts who disagree 171 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: that the US is bound for collapse. What are their arguments? 172 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: Trump has got his backers, and he's got people who 173 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: have who are supplying him with his policies and his approach, 174 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: and one of them is the Heritage Foundation. A senior 175 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: fellow from there by the name of Mike Gonzalez says, 176 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, all this talk of collapses just sour breaps. 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: That we've got a scenario where Trump is introducing a 178 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: in his words, regime change. That it's a major shake 179 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: up of US politics. And it's not the only time 180 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: this has happened. We've had it that He points to 181 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three as being a similar time, and that's 182 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: when the Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt was swept into power 183 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: with a landslide election during the Great Depression, and he 184 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: led a major change in US federal governments. You said, 185 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: to become much more of a federal system where the 186 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: state's controlled from Washington, d C. So you know, he says, 187 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: you've got winners, you've got losers, and when you get losers, 188 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: you get moaning. 189 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: Well, it's certainly a fascinating topic. I encourage everyone to 190 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: go and check out your piece on news dot com 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: dot Au and I love reading them, Jamie, because you 192 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: certainly make me think. So thanks for taking the time 193 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: to chatter from the newsroom. 194 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 195 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: See, I know some of you think news dot com 196 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: dot au is just stories about celebrities and the royals 197 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: and new items at kmart, but as you just heard, 198 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: we also have some in depth analysis of world affairs. Okay, 199 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: so there you go, feeling very smug. Thanks for listening 200 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: to chat to you again tomorrow. 201 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: Follow us, subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get 202 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 2: your podcasts.