WEBVTT - The Bolt Report | 28 September

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<v Speaker 1>This is The Bolt Report. Good evening.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's what's coming up tonight. Treasurer Jim Chalmers wheels out

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<v Speaker 2>the same old excuses for Australia's economic decline, claiming high

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<v Speaker 2>inflation and an expected RBA rate rise tomorrow have nothing

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<v Speaker 2>to do with government spending. No, no, it's all about

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<v Speaker 2>the wars overseas. The political panel will join me to

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<v Speaker 2>discuss that. Plus, we'll cross to Patrick Christie's in the UK,

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<v Speaker 2>where a major alleged terror threat was foiled by a

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<v Speaker 2>farmer who noticed masked men emerging from white vans just

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<v Speaker 2>400 metres from a British Air Force base. And Pauline

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<v Speaker 2>Hanson calls for tougher laws targeting radical Islamists. Following revelations,

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<v Speaker 2>a radical Muslim preacher in Melbourne has encouraged worshippers to

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<v Speaker 2>take up arms against Jews and Christians. We'll get to

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<v Speaker 2>all of that shortly. But first, Australia desperately needs an

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<v Speaker 2>e-safety commissioner. to protect us from the eSafety Commissioner.

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<v Speaker 1>It was revealed today that.

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<v Speaker 2>Hidden deep within the fine print of the Albanese government's

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<v Speaker 2>digital duty of care exposure draft are powers that would

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<v Speaker 2>allow our eSafety Commissioner to create fake online accounts.

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<v Speaker 1>And she'd have the power to use these.

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<v Speaker 2>Fake online accounts to, and I'm quoting here, generate material,

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<v Speaker 2>including by means of artificial intelligence.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Hang on a second.

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<v Speaker 2>Hasn't the government spent the past few years telling us

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<v Speaker 2>that fake online accounts are spreading harm? I remember back

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<v Speaker 2>in May 2024, Anthony Albanese told 4CA Radio in Cairns that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I quote, people are prepared to say things online

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<v Speaker 2>that they would never say to your face. And often

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<v Speaker 2>it's behind anonymous accounts where people aren't held to account.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just shocking that people can get away with this stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, quite right.

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<v Speaker 2>It is shocking when people hide behind fake accounts and

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<v Speaker 2>say things they'd never say to your face, unless, apparently,

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<v Speaker 2>those fake accounts belong to the eSafety Commissioner. Then it's

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<v Speaker 2>government policy. And hasn't the government spent the past 12

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<v Speaker 2>months complaining against the spread of propaganda?

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<v Speaker 3>The truth is this is having an impact on our

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<v Speaker 3>entire society and how it functions. with misinformation, disinformation, with

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<v Speaker 3>the increased polarisation that we're seeing as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And on top of that, hasn't the government spent the

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<v Speaker 2>past few days complaining that AI could destroy humanity?

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<v Speaker 3>We need to make sure that we shape its use

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<v Speaker 3>in the interests of humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>And now we discover, while they've been saying all of

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<v Speaker 2>that to us, they themselves want the power to create

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<v Speaker 2>fake online accounts to spread their own propaganda using AI.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently the rules are.

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<v Speaker 2>Different when the people behind the keyboard are wearing a

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<v Speaker 2>government endorsed lanyard. Funny how Anthony Albanese and his communications minister,

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<v Speaker 2>Annika Wells, never mentioned any of this when they fronted

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<v Speaker 2>the media to promote their digital duty of care legislation.

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<v Speaker 3>This is not about giving government control. It's about giving

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<v Speaker 3>people control.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you believe that, imagine what you'll believe after

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<v Speaker 2>the eSafety Commissioner has been empowered to create fake online

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<v Speaker 2>accounts to tell you what else is up, by which

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, of course, down. Yet buried inside this legislation

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<v Speaker 2>are powers that would allow a government-appointed regulator to do

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<v Speaker 2>some of the very things Australians are being warned not

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<v Speaker 2>to do. Anonymous accounts, generated material, artificial intelligence, information without

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<v Speaker 2>an identifiable author. These aren't powers under some, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>abstract concept called the internet. These are powers over what

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<v Speaker 2>Australians can see, what Australians can say, and potentially what

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<v Speaker 2>Australians are told is true. And the government wants us

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<v Speaker 2>to trust it to tell the truth, you know, anonymously

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<v Speaker 2>using AI. Even if we trusted Anthony Albanese, which we don't,

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<v Speaker 2>this would not be OK. And as for the e-safety commissioner, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why would we give her even more power to shape

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<v Speaker 2>the public conversation, let alone using online sock puppets to

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<v Speaker 2>do it? Remember when the e-safety Karen tried to ban

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<v Speaker 2>us from seeing footage of what New South Wales police

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<v Speaker 2>allege was an Islamist terror attack on the Christian bishop

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<v Speaker 2>in Sydney? This was despite the fact that the victim,

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<v Speaker 2>Bishop Marmari Emmanuel, said he wanted people to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to see what happened to him. The East Safety Commissioner, well,

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<v Speaker 2>she ignored the victim and went all the way to

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<v Speaker 2>the federal court in a bid to have clips of

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<v Speaker 2>what happened to him removed from X, including one clip

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<v Speaker 2>posted by a sitting federal senator. Well, what about the

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<v Speaker 2>time Australia's East Safety Karen tried unsuccessfully to force a

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<v Speaker 2>Canadian citizen, to delete a social media post criticising the

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<v Speaker 2>World Health Organisation for appointing a transgendered Australian to help

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<v Speaker 2>write treatment guidelines for young people with gender dysphoria.

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<v Speaker 1>I could give you more examples, but you get the idea.

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<v Speaker 2>The eSafety Commissioner already has opinions about what Australians should

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<v Speaker 2>and shouldn't be allowed to see online. Now the government

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<v Speaker 2>wants to give her even more power and they want

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<v Speaker 2>a provision for her to be able to use that

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<v Speaker 2>power anonymously. That should be a concern for everyone who

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<v Speaker 2>thinks accountability is a vital feature of government, which means

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<v Speaker 2>it's a concern for everyone, apart from those currently in government.

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<v Speaker 2>But as I said earlier, how is it that the

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<v Speaker 2>Albanese government didn't tell us about this provision when they

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<v Speaker 2>presented their digital duty of care a couple of weeks ago?

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<v Speaker 2>How is it we only found out about these new

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<v Speaker 2>powers after someone decided to go digging into the fine print? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess maybe Anthony Albanese didn't realise this was in

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<v Speaker 2>the exposure draft.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's possible.

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<v Speaker 2>He did, after all, propose a major constitutional change. Remember

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<v Speaker 2>the voice to Parliament? Without reading all the details of

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<v Speaker 2>what it was he was proposing.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you agree with most of what is said in

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<v Speaker 1>those 25 pages? I haven't read it. You haven't read it?

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<v Speaker 1>There's 120 pages. Why would I?

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<v Speaker 3>I know what the conclusion is.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's fair to say details in Anthony Albanese

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<v Speaker 2>are kind of like water and oil. The other possibility

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<v Speaker 2>is less flattering. Perhaps the Prime Minister knew exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>was in his digital duty of care exposure draft, and

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps he simply didn't think Australians needed to know.

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<v Speaker 1>Because that's the problem here, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>It's not just the power, it's the secrecy surrounding the power,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not just the hypocrisy, it's the expectation that

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<v Speaker 2>Australians should accept the hypocrisy without asking questions. And of course,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the lying, the constant lying.

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<v Speaker 3>The criticism of this legislation is not surprising that this

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<v Speaker 3>is about government control. It is the opposite of that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's about giving everyone a control over their own lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, if anyone out there wants to give us control

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<v Speaker 2>over our own lives, please save us from the eSafety

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<v Speaker 2>Commissioner and save us from this secretive, lying, Albanese government.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining me now is my political panel, former Victoria Liberal

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<v Speaker 2>Party President Michael Kroger and former Labor Minister Stephen Conroy.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to you both. Michael, I'll start with you.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you think of the government's proposal to expand

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<v Speaker 2>the eSafety Commissioner's powers like this?

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<v Speaker 1>This is laughable.

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<v Speaker 4>If you want to see something spectacular, you just need

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<v Speaker 4>to have seen Rowan Dean's takedown of this yesterday on Outsiders.

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<v Speaker 4>And if you haven't or didn't see it, have a

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<v Speaker 4>look at it. This is preposterous, to put in the

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<v Speaker 4>hands of the eSafety Commissioner or Annika Wells, power over

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<v Speaker 4>what we should be seeing. This reminds me of my

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<v Speaker 4>friend here, Stephen Conroy's time at the wheel as Communications

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<v Speaker 4>Minister in 2011. They started on this with the Fingalstein Report.

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<v Speaker 4>Labor have an obsession with disinformation, whether it's, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>the reason the voice loss was disinformation. All clouded in

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<v Speaker 4>community good, community service, protecting children and Rubbish. We weren't

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<v Speaker 4>born yesterday, Albo. This is all about Labor censoring the

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<v Speaker 4>news and current affairs that they don't like, all under

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<v Speaker 4>the guise of protecting innocent people and making it your choice. No,

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<v Speaker 4>the eSafety Commissioner decides these things. You'd have to be kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen Conroy, I don't know that I've done an episode

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<v Speaker 2>of The Bolt Report where you haven't started laughing mid-answer

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<v Speaker 2>from Michael Kroger, so I'll let you tell me.

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<v Speaker 5>Seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>What's funny? Can I just.

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<v Speaker 6>I just want some of what Michael's smoking when we're

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<v Speaker 6>finished here, OK? I mean, this is as simple as

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<v Speaker 6>wanting to give Australians a choice... whether they want Elon

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<v Speaker 6>Musk's filth shoved down their throat via his algorithm and

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<v Speaker 6>his choices, or they get to go, no. I don't

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<v Speaker 6>want that. I'll make these decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen, let me jump in for a second, Stephen. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me jump in for a second because you're right. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what they've told us this is all about. But then

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<v Speaker 2>people go reading through the legislation and they find that

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<v Speaker 2>a safety commissioner gets to create fake accounts and to

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<v Speaker 2>generate material. What's that got to do with letting us

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<v Speaker 2>choose our own algorithm?

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<v Speaker 3>Correct.

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<v Speaker 6>Perhaps you've never... talk to one of the police officers

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<v Speaker 6>who hunt down child porn.

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<v Speaker 1>The eSafety Commission is not a police officer.

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<v Speaker 6>They don't go on the line as James McPherson. This

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<v Speaker 6>isn't James McPherson. They create fake accounts to track down

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<v Speaker 6>the bad guys.

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<v Speaker 1>But the eSafety Commissioner is not a police officer. They do.

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<v Speaker 6>The eSafety Commissioner's job is to make sure that these companies,

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<v Speaker 6>these big tech companies who think they own and rule

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<v Speaker 6>the world and your life... to ensure they're complying with

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<v Speaker 6>our legislation. And so you create personas that allow you

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<v Speaker 6>to test whether the bad guys, in this case, bad

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<v Speaker 6>big tech, are actually complying with our laws, whether they're

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<v Speaker 6>actually really trying to identify somebody under the age of 16,

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<v Speaker 6>whether they're trying to force material down their throats. That's

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<v Speaker 6>her job. like the job of the East Safety Commissioner.

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<v Speaker 6>So there is absolutely good reason why this thing is

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<v Speaker 6>in the legislation to ensure the big tech companies are

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<v Speaker 6>telling the truth, something they've told none of to all

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<v Speaker 6>of us for the last 20 years while they've strip-mined

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<v Speaker 6>our souls. And now they say, trust us, trust us,

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<v Speaker 6>we'll do the right thing. It's just not the case.

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<v Speaker 1>OK, Michael, take.

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<v Speaker 6>Because, as has been said... No, no, sorry, just let me...

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<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry, I'm being long-winded.

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<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, keep going.

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<v Speaker 6>But big tech have just done half a billion dollar

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<v Speaker 6>deals on the digital duty of care laws.

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<v Speaker 1>In the US.

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<v Speaker 6>They've just done half a billion settlements in two states

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<v Speaker 6>because they know they don't keep their word. So two

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<v Speaker 6>states have taken action against... the Facebooks and Instagrams of

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<v Speaker 6>this world, and they've settled. They've settled for large money amounts.

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<v Speaker 2>OK, so we all know that big tech are capable

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<v Speaker 2>of misleading people, but.

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<v Speaker 1>My problem, Michael, is... They're not capable. They do it

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<v Speaker 1>on a daily basis... as do the Labor government. But, Michael, if.

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<v Speaker 7>No.

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<v Speaker 1>if this is.

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<v Speaker 2>Necessary information, it's necessary for them to have this power,

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<v Speaker 2>as Stephen has argued, then why would the government, knowing

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<v Speaker 2>that this is going to be explosive when it's found...

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<v Speaker 2>Why wouldn't they just come out right at the start

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<v Speaker 2>and say, and by the way, this is what we're

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<v Speaker 2>also going to do and this is why?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it is pretty remarkable. Michael, you have a go, Michael.

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<v Speaker 4>There's nothing to see here whatsoever, according to Stephen. This

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<v Speaker 4>is an old tactic of the left, by the way,

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<v Speaker 4>and they use it in all sorts of things. They

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<v Speaker 4>rationalise a position by taking the extremist position and then

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<v Speaker 4>pretend that that applies to the whole. So Stephen's... Big

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<v Speaker 4>tech are all doing it. Stephen's argument is, oh, look

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<v Speaker 4>at these rampant pedophiles on the internet. You know, if

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<v Speaker 4>we don't censor big tech, these people run rampant. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>in fact, that is a very small percentage of what

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<v Speaker 4>goes on. So, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like what they say about the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, there are right-wing extremists or one notion are full

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<v Speaker 4>of neo-Nazis or whatever. This is their old tactic of

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<v Speaker 4>the left to take some extreme example and then say

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<v Speaker 4>that's normal and that's why we need to protect you. No,

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<v Speaker 4>we don't need protection from the East Safety Commissioner. Thank

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<v Speaker 4>you very much. And nor do we need help from

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<v Speaker 4>Annika Wells.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, if Angus Taylor wants to be on the side

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 6>of big tech against the government protecting kids under 16... Yeah,

0:13:13.340 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 6>there you go.

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Protecting kids.

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.460
<v Speaker 6>Well, that's what the legislation's about. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:13:17.500 --> 0:13:19.940
<v Speaker 6>You go right ahead, you back Elon Musk. You back

0:13:20.260 --> 0:13:20.710
<v Speaker 6>big tech.

0:13:20.900 --> 0:13:20.970
<v Speaker 1>Mm.

0:13:21.929 --> 0:13:22.429
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

0:13:22.670 --> 0:13:25.089
<v Speaker 2>Let's move on to some other news today because we

0:13:25.130 --> 0:13:28.079
<v Speaker 2>could spend all the show on that topic, but we won't.

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.500
<v Speaker 2>Jim Chalmers fronted the media today to announce the final

0:13:31.620 --> 0:13:34.780
<v Speaker 2>federal budget figures. As part of that, he confirmed the

0:13:34.870 --> 0:13:38.390
<v Speaker 2>overall budget deficit is $ 6 billion lower than initially forecast,

0:13:38.450 --> 0:13:42.010
<v Speaker 2>but it's... still the largest deficit since COVID. When it

0:13:42.050 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 2>came to addressing higher inflation and the expected RBA rate

0:13:44.890 --> 0:13:49.240
<v Speaker 2>rise tomorrow, he, I think, defaulted to his usual spin,

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.620
<v Speaker 2>claiming it's all because of the war and, besides, everyone

0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.460
<v Speaker 2>else around the world's got high inflation too.

0:13:53.500 --> 0:13:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Here's what he said.

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 8>Rates will go up around the world, including in Australia.

0:13:58.820 --> 0:14:02.619
<v Speaker 8>We see much more pressure on inflation from developments in

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.270
<v Speaker 8>the Middle East in particular, and that's why, if you

0:14:05.290 --> 0:14:07.350
<v Speaker 8>look right across the major advanced economies.

0:14:08.660 --> 0:14:11.660
<v Speaker 8>There is an expectation of higher interest rates around the world.

0:14:12.660 --> 0:14:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Opposition leader Angus Taylor was having none of that. He

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 1>hit back with this.

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 5>You've got a treasurer here who's just a media advisor.

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.900
<v Speaker 5>It's all just spin. That's where he comes from. He

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:27.140
<v Speaker 5>doesn't understand the economy. And, you know, we're seeing the

0:14:27.210 --> 0:14:28.230
<v Speaker 5>outcome of that right now.

0:14:29.090 --> 0:14:31.530
<v Speaker 2>Michael Kroger, Jim Chalmers believed he had a good story

0:14:31.590 --> 0:14:32.590
<v Speaker 2>to tell today.

0:14:32.630 --> 0:14:32.870
<v Speaker 1>Did he?

0:14:34.230 --> 0:14:35.070
<v Speaker 4>No, he's got a shocker.

0:14:36.050 --> 0:14:36.470
<v Speaker 1>This bloke.

0:14:37.700 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 4>This bloke is hopelessly out of his depth. All he

0:14:40.100 --> 0:14:42.900
<v Speaker 4>does at press conferences is repeat what the advertising people

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 4>have said to him, which is compare yourself to the

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.170
<v Speaker 4>Frydenberg budget and say because of Labor's good economic management.

0:14:49.210 --> 0:14:52.030
<v Speaker 4>You must repeat those phrases, Jim, in every single press conference.

0:14:52.650 --> 0:14:55.670
<v Speaker 4>Here's what's happened, by the way, James, since Frydenberg's last

0:14:55.730 --> 0:15:01.510
<v Speaker 4>budget in March 2022. Compared to what Frydenberg predicted in

0:15:01.530 --> 0:15:08.550
<v Speaker 4>that budget, government expenditure has gone up 34%. It's gone

0:15:08.610 --> 0:15:12.470
<v Speaker 4>up a little bit over $ 200 billion in five years.

0:15:13.750 --> 0:15:15.790
<v Speaker 4>And the good news for Chalmers is, and he's got

0:15:15.890 --> 0:15:18.950
<v Speaker 4>one thing correct, he's brought down the budget deficit as,

0:15:19.310 --> 0:15:20.810
<v Speaker 4>you know, Josh said it'd be $ 80 billion that year.

0:15:20.850 --> 0:15:22.010
<v Speaker 4>It's now going to be $ 30 billion this year.

0:15:22.870 --> 0:15:23.570
<v Speaker 1>Why would that be?

0:15:24.130 --> 0:15:31.450
<v Speaker 4>He's increased revenues by 46%. Revenues since the Frydenberg budget

0:15:31.630 --> 0:15:33.210
<v Speaker 4>are up $ 250 billion. Expenditure is up $ 200 billion in

0:15:33.750 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 4>five years. You want to know why this country's in

0:15:39.980 --> 0:15:43.560
<v Speaker 4>a shocking mess? Because this bloke and his team have

0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:49.500
<v Speaker 4>to massively increase government revenues to cover the blowout in spending.

0:15:49.620 --> 0:15:54.910
<v Speaker 4>In five years, spending up over 30%. I mean, the

0:15:55.150 --> 0:15:58.610
<v Speaker 4>guy has no ability whatsoever. He's not running the economy.

0:15:58.690 --> 0:16:02.630
<v Speaker 4>The economy's running him. And still running these massive budget

0:16:02.670 --> 0:16:05.530
<v Speaker 4>deficits when revenues have been booming. Budget deficits.

0:16:05.890 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Budget deficits.

0:16:07.190 --> 0:16:10.730
<v Speaker 4>When the economy has been booming, is just testimony to

0:16:10.770 --> 0:16:13.950
<v Speaker 4>a weak Treasurer, hopelessly out of his depth, the result

0:16:13.990 --> 0:16:15.450
<v Speaker 4>of which is we're going to have an interest rate

0:16:15.510 --> 0:16:17.890
<v Speaker 4>rise tomorrow when the economy is failing badly, James.

0:16:18.250 --> 0:16:20.490
<v Speaker 2>The other thing Jim Chalmers said today, Stephen, was that

0:16:20.610 --> 0:16:25.580
<v Speaker 2>nobody cares more about productivity than the Albanese government. You'd

0:16:25.620 --> 0:16:27.200
<v Speaker 2>even find that hard to swallow, wouldn't you?

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, productivity's been a long-term problem in this country, no

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 6>matter who's been in government, but it had a particularly

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:38.290
<v Speaker 6>shocking time for the near 10 years that the Coalition

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:42.660
<v Speaker 6>were in government from 14 to 22, where if you

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 6>look at the statistics, whatever they actually mean, it went

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 6>backwards under the Liberal government. The biggest issue around productivity

0:16:51.060 --> 0:16:53.420
<v Speaker 6>at the moment is the lack of investment, because that's

0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.120
<v Speaker 6>how you sort of measure it. And it's a very

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 6>poor way to try and talk about productivity in a

0:16:58.700 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 6>modern economy. It's based on investment and workers. So when

0:17:03.300 --> 0:17:05.980
<v Speaker 6>the Liberal Party talk about productivity, that's code for we

0:17:06.010 --> 0:17:09.400
<v Speaker 6>want to cut your wages. So just know when Michael Kroger,

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.910
<v Speaker 6>Angus Taylor says we want improved productivity, what they really

0:17:12.950 --> 0:17:16.550
<v Speaker 6>are saying is we want workers to be paid less.

0:17:17.210 --> 0:17:18.750
<v Speaker 1>Like the Howard government did.

0:17:18.930 --> 0:17:21.929
<v Speaker 6>That is what his productivity arguments are about when the

0:17:21.970 --> 0:17:23.290
<v Speaker 6>Liberal Party's lips are moving.

0:17:23.369 --> 0:17:24.169
<v Speaker 1>Or when you're desperate.

0:17:24.650 --> 0:17:27.400
<v Speaker 6>So just to go back to this massive budget deficit,

0:17:27.420 --> 0:17:30.560
<v Speaker 6>this is a tiny, tiny proportion of GDP. It's like

0:17:31.060 --> 0:17:34.990
<v Speaker 6>it's actually virtually... In rounding terms, almost a balanced budget again.

0:17:35.010 --> 0:17:37.490
<v Speaker 6>I know Michael can't stand that. The last refuge of

0:17:37.510 --> 0:17:40.940
<v Speaker 6>the economic charlatan is to say it's $ 18 billion.

0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:41.760
<v Speaker 1>It's massive.

0:17:42.100 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 6>It's not massive at all. It's a rounding error on

0:17:45.260 --> 0:17:48.860
<v Speaker 6>the actual size of our GDP, budget deficit to GDP,

0:17:49.220 --> 0:17:53.940
<v Speaker 6>a rounding error. So the last refuge, economic charlatan, pretend

0:17:53.940 --> 0:17:56.270
<v Speaker 6>$ 18 billion is a big number as a deficit. It's

0:17:56.310 --> 0:17:59.750
<v Speaker 6>actually coming in. It's actually coming in and been reduced.

0:18:00.130 --> 0:18:01.850
<v Speaker 1>I've got to agree with you, Stephen. You've got $ 100

0:18:01.810 --> 0:18:02.890
<v Speaker 1>billion of deficits.

0:18:02.910 --> 0:18:05.750
<v Speaker 4>You've got $ 100 billion of deficits over the next four years.

0:18:06.450 --> 0:18:07.650
<v Speaker 4>That ain't no rounding error.

0:18:08.580 --> 0:18:10.300
<v Speaker 2>I'm agreeing with Stephen because I'd love to buy a

0:18:10.300 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 2>house in Sydney and $ 18 billion does.

0:18:12.420 --> 0:18:14.820
<v Speaker 1>Seem like a rounding error when you're trying to do that.

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Before I let you guys go.

0:18:16.660 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 6>You want to be absurd and compare it not to

0:18:18.619 --> 0:18:21.250
<v Speaker 6>the economy and talk about $ 18 billion for a house

0:18:21.510 --> 0:18:23.470
<v Speaker 6>versus $ 18 billion for an economy?

0:18:23.630 --> 0:18:23.870
<v Speaker 9>OK.

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about migrants for a second. Labor grants 30,000

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:36.370
<v Speaker 2>visas to boat arrivals. The government's quietly granted these visas,

0:18:36.430 --> 0:18:39.460
<v Speaker 2>as I said, more than 30,000. These were legal boat

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.639
<v Speaker 2>arrivals who came during the Rudd-Gillard era. That was between

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:47.250
<v Speaker 2>2009 and 2014. And this is despite Labor promising that

0:18:47.290 --> 0:18:50.340
<v Speaker 2>only allow about 19,000 of them to stay under a

0:18:50.380 --> 0:18:53.460
<v Speaker 2>new resolution of status visa that announced more than three

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:57.719
<v Speaker 2>years ago intended to end the limbo facing these asylum seekers. Now,

0:18:57.740 --> 0:19:04.360
<v Speaker 2>this includes permanent visas for 6,500 Iranians, 4,500 Afghanis. Most

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 2>of these illegal asylum seekers now granted permanent visas will

0:19:07.340 --> 0:19:12.060
<v Speaker 2>be eligible to become citizens by the 2028 federal election. Michael,

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.590
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, call me cynical, or rather don't,

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.669
<v Speaker 2>but actually you can go ahead and call me cynical

0:19:16.690 --> 0:19:17.030
<v Speaker 2>if you want.

0:19:18.190 --> 0:19:22.689
<v Speaker 4>Hmm. No, mate, this is a break with what Labor

0:19:22.750 --> 0:19:25.169
<v Speaker 4>said to people, with what we said to people at

0:19:25.210 --> 0:19:28.530
<v Speaker 4>the time, that these people, if they came to Australia illegally,

0:19:28.730 --> 0:19:29.790
<v Speaker 4>they would never be granted.

0:19:31.470 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 4>Status in Australia to become citizens or get permanent residency.

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 4>This was our disincentive to the people smuggles and to

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 4>people thinking of getting on these boats. And now look

0:19:42.260 --> 0:19:44.330
<v Speaker 4>what happens. This is what Labor do. You do it

0:19:44.369 --> 0:19:47.930
<v Speaker 4>in secret because they know the public don't like this.

0:19:48.210 --> 0:19:50.590
<v Speaker 4>And by the way, James, what has happened to the

0:19:50.630 --> 0:19:54.649
<v Speaker 4>status of the 3,000 Gaza refugees that Penny Wong and

0:19:54.690 --> 0:19:56.689
<v Speaker 4>Tony Burke brought in a couple of years ago? Have

0:19:56.730 --> 0:20:01.020
<v Speaker 4>they all returned home yet or are they still here?

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.820
<v Speaker 4>Where is Labor speaking about this issue as well? We

0:20:03.859 --> 0:20:04.879
<v Speaker 4>hear nothing from them on that.

0:20:04.900 --> 0:20:05.020
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:20:05.690 --> 0:20:08.649
<v Speaker 4>When they make these unpopular decisions, they never publicise them

0:20:08.670 --> 0:20:10.450
<v Speaker 4>and just hope that News Limited don't notice.

0:20:11.210 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Conroy, I'm very sorry I have run out of time.

0:20:13.619 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I've got to go to a break. But I appreciate

0:20:16.140 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 2>both of you being on the program tonight. Thanks so much.

0:20:19.060 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, after the break, Anthony Albanese had his New

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.139
<v Speaker 2>York minute, but what did it actually achieve? I'm going

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 2>to recap the Prime Minister's trip with Greg Sheridan after

0:20:28.500 --> 0:20:35.629
<v Speaker 2>the break. I think it's fair to say that Anthony

0:20:35.690 --> 0:20:38.359
<v Speaker 2>Albanese's New York trip didn't exactly get off to a

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:39.500
<v Speaker 2>flying start.

0:20:40.420 --> 0:20:42.560
<v Speaker 11>Prime Minister, here in New York on Wednesday night, you

0:20:42.580 --> 0:20:46.340
<v Speaker 11>will receive an award for being a global citizen. Don't

0:20:46.380 --> 0:20:48.199
<v Speaker 11>you feel like a bit of a fraud accepting this

0:20:48.300 --> 0:20:52.119
<v Speaker 11>award when, at home, you screwed up the response to

0:20:52.140 --> 0:20:55.460
<v Speaker 11>the worst massacre since Port Arthur? In the polls, you're

0:20:55.500 --> 0:20:58.729
<v Speaker 11>taking Labor to one point shy of Julia Gillard when

0:20:58.770 --> 0:21:01.990
<v Speaker 11>you rolled her. And your net negatives are worse than

0:21:02.030 --> 0:21:02.650
<v Speaker 11>Scott Morrison's.

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:21:04.700 --> 0:21:07.410
<v Speaker 2>And judging by the way it finished, the landing wasn't

0:21:07.450 --> 0:21:07.910
<v Speaker 2>much better.

0:21:08.790 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 3>It's not about misinformation or disinformation.

0:21:11.619 --> 0:21:13.859
<v Speaker 10>With misinformation, disinformation.

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 3>What this is about is giving people control.

0:21:17.830 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 2>In between those two bookends, Anthony Albanese made speeches calling

0:21:21.580 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 2>for global guardrails on AI, calls Donald Trump explicitly rejected

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:30.030
<v Speaker 2>while slamming Albanese's own digital laws as censorship.

0:21:30.570 --> 0:21:31.550
<v Speaker 1>Then it was revealed that.

0:21:31.470 --> 0:21:35.730
<v Speaker 2>An AI agent had hacked an Australian government website. Nothing says,

0:21:36.030 --> 0:21:39.149
<v Speaker 2>we've got this, quite like that. There was, of course,

0:21:39.270 --> 0:21:42.119
<v Speaker 2>the famous selfie with Donald Trump, although, as I revealed

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.280
<v Speaker 2>last week, it was less a great diplomatic catch-up on

0:21:45.300 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 2>the sidelines of the UN and more a quick snap

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.560
<v Speaker 2>in front of a photo wall where the US president

0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.830
<v Speaker 2>was posing for pictures with pretty much anyone who wandered past.

0:21:54.410 --> 0:21:58.169
<v Speaker 2>So what exactly did Anthony Albanese achieve for Australia in

0:21:58.230 --> 0:21:58.790
<v Speaker 2>New York?

0:21:59.210 --> 0:22:00.450
<v Speaker 1>And perhaps more importantly.

0:22:00.930 --> 0:22:03.350
<v Speaker 2>What did Elbow's trip reveal about Australia's place in the

0:22:03.390 --> 0:22:06.830
<v Speaker 2>world under this Labor government? Joining me now is foreign

0:22:06.869 --> 0:22:10.169
<v Speaker 2>editor at the Australian newspaper, Greg Sheridan. Greg, great to

0:22:10.250 --> 0:22:13.520
<v Speaker 2>see you. How do you assess Albanese's New York trip?

0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 9>A meandering, ill-advised trip. It wasn't disastrous. He didn't do

0:22:25.060 --> 0:22:30.419
<v Speaker 9>anything catastrophic like the Melingate business with the Japanese Prime Minister.

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 9>But it had no purpose.

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:33.760
<v Speaker 10>Nothing came of it.

0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.300
<v Speaker 9>It was inherently quite a dishonest trip because he would

0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:43.300
<v Speaker 9>have these very, very brief pull-asides with other leaders. It's

0:22:43.340 --> 0:22:45.679
<v Speaker 9>like being a fanboy at a Taylor Swift concert and

0:22:45.700 --> 0:22:49.959
<v Speaker 9>getting a minute with the celebrity. And then his staff

0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:53.440
<v Speaker 9>would put that out as a substantial meeting. Now, he

0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:58.679
<v Speaker 9>had a couple of substantial bilateral meetings, one with Volodymyr Zelensky.

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.750
<v Speaker 9>And I mean, until this trip. Australia had been very

0:23:01.850 --> 0:23:04.629
<v Speaker 9>stingy in the aid it provided the Ukrainians and one

0:23:04.650 --> 0:23:07.990
<v Speaker 9>with the Netherlands Prime Minister, but none of the First

0:23:08.030 --> 0:23:14.810
<v Speaker 9>Division players held a serious, well-prepared bilateral meeting, head of

0:23:14.850 --> 0:23:16.820
<v Speaker 9>government to head of government, where you sit down for

0:23:16.820 --> 0:23:19.200
<v Speaker 9>45 minutes, you've got a couple of advisers and an

0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.820
<v Speaker 9>agenda you work through. He had no message for the world.

0:23:22.940 --> 0:23:26.920
<v Speaker 9>I mean, this is a government without an agenda other

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.490
<v Speaker 9>than political survival. It has no domestic agenda. It has

0:23:30.540 --> 0:23:33.340
<v Speaker 9>no foreign agenda. I think he so far had one

0:23:33.460 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 9>proper meeting with Donald Trump. You know, Tony Abbott had

0:23:37.500 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 9>several meetings with Barack Obama, and he was only prime

0:23:40.260 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 9>minister for two years. So I thought it was a

0:23:43.300 --> 0:23:49.050
<v Speaker 9>kind of a lame, meandering, pointless trip that was a

0:23:49.130 --> 0:23:53.510
<v Speaker 9>little bit embarrassing. And, you know, campaigning for a non-permanent

0:23:53.530 --> 0:23:56.229
<v Speaker 9>seat on the United Nations Security Council was He's all

0:23:56.250 --> 0:23:58.869
<v Speaker 9>well and good, but it's about a 99th order issue

0:23:58.910 --> 0:24:01.350
<v Speaker 9>for Australian foreign policy, not worth a week of a

0:24:01.369 --> 0:24:04.540
<v Speaker 9>prime minister's time. And there's no evidence that his presence

0:24:04.580 --> 0:24:07.210
<v Speaker 9>there would have had any positive effect on our chances anyway.

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.280
<v Speaker 2>So given all of that, what have we learned about

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.420
<v Speaker 2>where Australia sits in the global scheme of things with

0:24:13.660 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Albanese in particular as our leader?

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:22.410
<v Speaker 9>Well, I think we're more marginal than we were. We

0:24:23.010 --> 0:24:25.020
<v Speaker 9>have a few things going for us. We're a military

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.719
<v Speaker 9>ally of the United States. We're very rich and our

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 9>geography counts for the United States. As a result, and

0:24:31.140 --> 0:24:34.490
<v Speaker 9>I'll give Albanese credit for this, the institutional basis of

0:24:34.530 --> 0:24:38.090
<v Speaker 9>the US-Australia alliance has deepened over the last few years

0:24:38.470 --> 0:24:43.010
<v Speaker 9>as it deepened under the coalition. But plainly, no one

0:24:43.050 --> 0:24:45.540
<v Speaker 9>in Washington takes a blind bit of notice of Albanese

0:24:45.580 --> 0:24:49.180
<v Speaker 9>in terms of policy. There's a very important trilateral meeting,

0:24:49.220 --> 0:24:52.020
<v Speaker 9>which the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio had with

0:24:52.460 --> 0:24:55.540
<v Speaker 9>Japan and South Korea, really getting to the nitty gritty

0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.420
<v Speaker 9>of artificial intelligence policy. Now, once upon a time, Australia

0:24:59.460 --> 0:25:02.180
<v Speaker 9>was an automatic inclusion in meetings like that.

0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:03.070
<v Speaker 10>No longer.

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:07.470
<v Speaker 9>Because we have no agenda, our economy is rich because

0:25:07.490 --> 0:25:09.710
<v Speaker 9>of our minerals, but it's very anemic. It's a low

0:25:09.750 --> 0:25:13.859
<v Speaker 9>growth economy. low productivity, high taxes, high regulation. It's not

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:15.340
<v Speaker 9>very attractive to anyone.

0:25:15.780 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 10>We're sort of.

0:25:16.340 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 9>Like a, you know, a version of a Middle East

0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:24.170
<v Speaker 9>oil power, but without being in an interesting Middle East location. And,

0:25:25.150 --> 0:25:28.190
<v Speaker 9>you know, I don't think he antagonised the president by

0:25:29.590 --> 0:25:33.210
<v Speaker 9>going on a bit about artificial intelligence regulation. Lots of

0:25:33.250 --> 0:25:36.470
<v Speaker 9>people are saying that. But he's just nowhere near the

0:25:36.510 --> 0:25:38.630
<v Speaker 9>centre of events. I mean, this is a prime minister

0:25:38.690 --> 0:25:42.300
<v Speaker 9>who really counts for very, very little on the international stage.

0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.669
<v Speaker 9>While of course the underlying, you know, strengths of Australia,

0:25:46.730 --> 0:25:49.350
<v Speaker 9>as I say, our economy, our geography and our mineral

0:25:49.390 --> 0:25:51.160
<v Speaker 9>richness are still there.

0:25:52.109 --> 0:25:55.869
<v Speaker 2>The contrast, you talked about AI, the contrast between, you know,

0:25:55.890 --> 0:25:59.369
<v Speaker 2>you've got Donald Trump declaring winner takes all on AI

0:25:59.410 --> 0:26:02.450
<v Speaker 2>and you've got our Prime Minister urging caution, issuing warnings,

0:26:02.990 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 2>pleading for guardrails, the contrast could not have been more stark.

0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:11.640
<v Speaker 2>What did that situation say about Anthony Albanese's approach to

0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:13.280
<v Speaker 2>the world as opposed to Trump's?

0:26:15.190 --> 0:26:17.300
<v Speaker 9>Well, to be honest with you, James, I don't like

0:26:17.390 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 9>Trump or Albanese on artificial intelligence. I mean, I think

0:26:21.619 --> 0:26:24.940
<v Speaker 9>Trump's position is unsustainable, that there needs to be no

0:26:24.980 --> 0:26:28.870
<v Speaker 9>regulation of artificial intelligence. I think that's just unsustainable. Much

0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:33.429
<v Speaker 9>better if the US government gets intimately involved. And I

0:26:33.450 --> 0:26:35.770
<v Speaker 9>believe it is intimately involved. I mean, only Trump would

0:26:35.810 --> 0:26:39.479
<v Speaker 9>say something as silly as we don't need any regulation

0:26:39.540 --> 0:26:41.460
<v Speaker 9>and we'll solve all the problems if we just call

0:26:41.510 --> 0:26:44.190
<v Speaker 9>it super intelligence. Well, that's Trump. That's Trump's madness. He's

0:26:44.210 --> 0:26:46.450
<v Speaker 9>the most powerful man in the world. He gets away

0:26:46.490 --> 0:26:47.030
<v Speaker 9>with quite a.

0:26:47.010 --> 0:26:47.770
<v Speaker 10>Lot of madness.

0:26:48.470 --> 0:26:52.510
<v Speaker 9>Albanese calling for regulation, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

0:26:53.790 --> 0:26:57.220
<v Speaker 9>But Australian regulation, of course, is not going to be important.

0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.119
<v Speaker 9>I mean, if we're too regulatory or too legalistic or something,

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:05.170
<v Speaker 9>the AI companies won't bring their training here. And that

0:27:05.230 --> 0:27:07.190
<v Speaker 9>will make it harder for us to come to grips

0:27:07.210 --> 0:27:11.230
<v Speaker 9>with this technology. This technology is immensely important. Two nations

0:27:11.270 --> 0:27:14.310
<v Speaker 9>have it, the US and China. China is not our friend.

0:27:14.670 --> 0:27:17.320
<v Speaker 9>We may have been breached a million times already by

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:20.670
<v Speaker 9>Chinese artificial intelligence. We'll never know about it. The only

0:27:20.710 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 9>way we're going to have any purchase on this technology

0:27:24.460 --> 0:27:26.880
<v Speaker 9>or any ability to cope with it, and this could,

0:27:27.580 --> 0:27:30.420
<v Speaker 9>you know, increase by a factor of 10 or 100

0:27:30.420 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 9>the amount of money we have to pay for cyber security.

0:27:33.140 --> 0:27:34.820
<v Speaker 9>The only way we're going to have any purchase on

0:27:34.859 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 9>this is through our military alliance with the United States

0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:41.440
<v Speaker 9>and the Australian Signals Directorate and other bodies like that

0:27:41.940 --> 0:27:44.850
<v Speaker 9>getting as close to the Americans as they possibly can.

0:27:45.380 --> 0:27:49.090
<v Speaker 9>So it's not that smart to present this as something

0:27:49.150 --> 0:27:53.000
<v Speaker 9>where you're making a demand on Trump from outside. On

0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.740
<v Speaker 9>the other hand, Trump is immensely unpopular now internally as

0:27:56.780 --> 0:27:59.700
<v Speaker 9>well as internationally. So, I mean, he's got a lot

0:27:59.740 --> 0:28:03.109
<v Speaker 9>more people to worry about before he gets down to

0:28:03.190 --> 0:28:07.690
<v Speaker 9>Anthony Albanese. And Albanese, to his credit, has resisted personal

0:28:07.750 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 9>criticism of Trump for the entirety of his prime ministership.

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:12.220
<v Speaker 10>That's good.

0:28:12.900 --> 0:28:15.860
<v Speaker 9>That's basic common sense. So I think this trip was

0:28:15.900 --> 0:28:18.980
<v Speaker 9>a great big nothing burger, really. Not too bad, not

0:28:19.020 --> 0:28:21.700
<v Speaker 9>too good, just a big yawn, an incredible waste of

0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.220
<v Speaker 9>a Prime Minister's time, as if he's got nothing better

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.379
<v Speaker 9>to do than swan around with Keanu Reeves at ridiculous

0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:32.250
<v Speaker 9>awards ceremonies in New York, as if there's nothing else

0:28:32.330 --> 0:28:34.429
<v Speaker 9>on his plate, no other matter that he needs to

0:28:34.470 --> 0:28:34.950
<v Speaker 9>attend to.

0:28:35.530 --> 0:28:38.910
<v Speaker 2>Greg Sheridan, I always enjoy our chats. Thank you so much.

0:28:39.790 --> 0:28:41.610
<v Speaker 2>All right, coming up after the break, we head to

0:28:41.630 --> 0:28:44.290
<v Speaker 2>the UK where a phone call from a humble farmer

0:28:44.830 --> 0:28:47.910
<v Speaker 2>helped stop a suspected terror plot. And how did the

0:28:47.970 --> 0:28:52.860
<v Speaker 2>British government end up granting citizenship to the former bodyguard

0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 2>of a Hamas leader?

0:28:54.540 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>All of that with Patrick Christie's after this.

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, not for the first time, the British farming community

0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:06.560
<v Speaker 2>has saved England's bacon. A suspected major terrorist attack was

0:29:06.640 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 2>foiled overnight by a farmer who, returning home from a party,

0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:13.460
<v Speaker 2>noticed three white vans on a country road just 400

0:29:13.460 --> 0:29:17.020
<v Speaker 2>metres from the Royal Air Force Base in Gloucestershire. And

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:19.780
<v Speaker 2>then she saw masked men, which she described as being

0:29:19.820 --> 0:29:23.180
<v Speaker 2>of Middle Eastern descent, running across a field towards the

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.140
<v Speaker 2>military base, which has been used by US Air Force

0:29:26.180 --> 0:29:28.830
<v Speaker 2>jets to carry out strikes on Iranian missile sites. At

0:29:28.850 --> 0:29:33.410
<v Speaker 2>this point, the woman did something increasingly unfashionable in Western cultures.

0:29:33.930 --> 0:29:36.930
<v Speaker 2>She trusted her own eyes and immediately called the police.

0:29:37.590 --> 0:29:42.190
<v Speaker 2>Five men suspected of terrorism and explosive offences have been arrested.

0:29:42.750 --> 0:29:46.370
<v Speaker 2>Authorities are now investigating whether the plot is believed which

0:29:47.390 --> 0:29:51.950
<v Speaker 2>is believed to have centred around vans that contained explosive devices,

0:29:52.630 --> 0:29:57.010
<v Speaker 2>whether this plot was directed from Iran. So while Britain's

0:29:57.050 --> 0:30:00.540
<v Speaker 2>political class worries endlessly about people noticing things they shouldn't,

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:04.950
<v Speaker 2>thank God one farmer noticed exactly what she should have noticed.

0:30:05.500 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Joining me now is GB News host Patrick Christies. Patrick,

0:30:08.780 --> 0:30:11.760
<v Speaker 2>by all indications, this woman seems to have prevented a

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 2>major terrorist attack.

0:30:14.140 --> 0:30:17.740
<v Speaker 10>I mean, she might have actually seriously stopped a war, genuinely.

0:30:17.850 --> 0:30:20.050
<v Speaker 12>It's hard to overstate how serious this could have been.

0:30:20.910 --> 0:30:22.650
<v Speaker 10>Had they succeeded.

0:30:22.150 --> 0:30:23.790
<v Speaker 12>In what it looks like they wanted to do with

0:30:23.830 --> 0:30:27.550
<v Speaker 12>various different vehicles packed full of explosives and the military

0:30:27.590 --> 0:30:29.230
<v Speaker 12>base there, if they'd have succeeded in.

0:30:29.390 --> 0:30:31.610
<v Speaker 10>Blowing up US jets, killing US.

0:30:31.430 --> 0:30:34.880
<v Speaker 12>Personnel, killing British service personnel right here on British soil,

0:30:35.220 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 12>and it turned out that they are indeed linked to Iran,

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.300
<v Speaker 12>then I think we would probably have to go to

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:42.460
<v Speaker 12>war with Iran, wouldn't we? I mean, the Americans would

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.310
<v Speaker 12>certainly use that as another excuse to bomb the living

0:30:45.350 --> 0:30:48.070
<v Speaker 12>daylights out of Tehran. We would then be expected to

0:30:48.110 --> 0:30:49.850
<v Speaker 12>be involved in that. I think the British public would

0:30:49.870 --> 0:30:51.710
<v Speaker 12>expect us to be involved in that. But thanks to

0:30:51.730 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 12>this eagle-eyed farmer who has clearly not been infected by the,

0:30:55.000 --> 0:30:58.020
<v Speaker 12>you know, woke mind virus here and actually did believe

0:30:58.060 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 12>what she could see with her own eyes. It looks

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:02.410
<v Speaker 12>like that may have been stopped. Now, there's a little

0:31:02.430 --> 0:31:04.590
<v Speaker 12>bit of a discrepancy going on here. So President Trump

0:31:04.610 --> 0:31:06.970
<v Speaker 12>is saying, look, we were monitoring these guys.

0:31:07.230 --> 0:31:08.930
<v Speaker 10>We knew what they were doing. We were bearing down

0:31:08.970 --> 0:31:09.730
<v Speaker 10>on them for a while.

0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.780
<v Speaker 12>The British government, been a bit slow out the traps here,

0:31:13.020 --> 0:31:15.719
<v Speaker 12>has this morning said, look, we're really grateful to this farmer.

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:18.020
<v Speaker 12>Thank you very much for everything that you've done. But

0:31:18.540 --> 0:31:20.290
<v Speaker 12>you're not seeing the full picture here. We did know

0:31:20.310 --> 0:31:22.709
<v Speaker 12>about it. I tell you what, they let it run very,

0:31:22.770 --> 0:31:27.890
<v Speaker 12>very close. Because these blokes had cars full of explosives, balaclavada,

0:31:27.970 --> 0:31:30.050
<v Speaker 12>running in the woods towards the military base.

0:31:30.090 --> 0:31:32.130
<v Speaker 10>I mean, how far are you going to let this run?

0:31:32.210 --> 0:31:33.170
<v Speaker 10>The people of that village.

0:31:33.190 --> 0:31:36.380
<v Speaker 12>By the way, all of them had to be evacuated

0:31:36.420 --> 0:31:38.220
<v Speaker 12>and put in a leisure centre because of the amount

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:42.340
<v Speaker 12>of explosives. If this was a slick multinational intelligence operation,

0:31:42.620 --> 0:31:45.600
<v Speaker 12>they have run that right to the wire before they've

0:31:45.620 --> 0:31:46.560
<v Speaker 12>decided to step in.

0:31:47.100 --> 0:31:49.510
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. I think the farmer

0:31:49.530 --> 0:31:53.030
<v Speaker 2>should absolutely get a medal. Tell me about how this

0:31:53.230 --> 0:31:56.430
<v Speaker 2>incident should be treated. I think I know how you're

0:31:56.450 --> 0:31:57.830
<v Speaker 2>going to go with this, but let me put it

0:31:57.890 --> 0:32:01.970
<v Speaker 2>to you. Should we treat this as an isolated curiosity

0:32:02.670 --> 0:32:04.760
<v Speaker 2>or as a serious wake-up call for the UK?

0:32:06.090 --> 0:32:07.410
<v Speaker 10>Absolutely massive wake-up call.

0:32:07.450 --> 0:32:10.100
<v Speaker 12>The Iranians had previously told us that they were going

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 12>to attack this base.

0:32:11.460 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 10>So it wasn't really a secret.

0:32:13.260 --> 0:32:15.860
<v Speaker 12>We've then had our foreign minister, Ed Miliband, going to

0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:18.180
<v Speaker 12>the UN in New York and shaking hands with the

0:32:18.260 --> 0:32:21.220
<v Speaker 12>Iranian foreign minister and telling him, hey, we will not

0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:23.260
<v Speaker 12>tolerate any attacks on UK soil.

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:25.970
<v Speaker 10>About 48 hours later, this happens.

0:32:26.250 --> 0:32:29.030
<v Speaker 12>The big thing that I find absolutely incomprehensible is, look,

0:32:29.070 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 12>at the moment, we don't know who these guys are.

0:32:31.190 --> 0:32:33.230
<v Speaker 12>Maybe they were born and raised in Britain. Maybe they

0:32:33.270 --> 0:32:35.290
<v Speaker 12>came across the Channel on a small boat. Maybe they

0:32:35.310 --> 0:32:35.830
<v Speaker 12>were immigrants.

0:32:36.230 --> 0:32:38.130
<v Speaker 10>We don't know. Is this part of a bigger plot?

0:32:38.520 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 12>However, at exactly the same time that these arrests were

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.660
<v Speaker 12>taking place, and right now, as I speak to you,

0:32:44.980 --> 0:32:47.180
<v Speaker 12>we've got small boats crossing the English Channel.

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:49.220
<v Speaker 10>We've got people breaking into our country. We don't know

0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:50.630
<v Speaker 10>who they are. We don't know where they're from.

0:32:50.930 --> 0:32:53.790
<v Speaker 12>And I do find it absolutely incomprehensible that after this

0:32:53.850 --> 0:32:56.470
<v Speaker 12>plot was was foiled at the last minute. We're still

0:32:56.530 --> 0:32:58.970
<v Speaker 12>allowing that into Britain, and it's not the first of

0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:03.380
<v Speaker 12>its kind. We've arrested numerous different Iranian nationals, very close

0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:07.590
<v Speaker 12>to different British military, submarine bases, nuclear bases, etc. This

0:33:07.660 --> 0:33:10.510
<v Speaker 12>is now becoming a regular thing here on British soil,

0:33:10.550 --> 0:33:13.590
<v Speaker 12>and unfortunately, we've let that problem in, really.

0:33:14.700 --> 0:33:17.940
<v Speaker 2>So, staying with the theme, I'm trying to understand how

0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:23.580
<v Speaker 2>a former bodyguard of the leader of Hamas was granted asylum.

0:33:23.530 --> 0:33:24.700
<v Speaker 1>And then British citizenship.

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.810
<v Speaker 2>This happened under David Cameron's Tory government, I might add.

0:33:28.510 --> 0:33:31.470
<v Speaker 2>And then this man, who's been living in the UK

0:33:31.510 --> 0:33:34.770
<v Speaker 2>for about 10 years, has now been charged, surprise, surprise,

0:33:35.270 --> 0:33:39.530
<v Speaker 2>with plotting a terror attack against Jews in Germany. What

0:33:39.550 --> 0:33:41.530
<v Speaker 2>do we know about this guy and what was he plotting?

0:33:42.490 --> 0:33:45.010
<v Speaker 12>This is the most insane story I've ever covered, and

0:33:45.030 --> 0:33:47.950
<v Speaker 12>that really is saying something. So we gave asylum and

0:33:48.010 --> 0:33:51.540
<v Speaker 12>a British passport to the bodyguard of a former Hamas leader,

0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:54.940
<v Speaker 12>even though we knew he had a history of gun smuggling.

0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:57.870
<v Speaker 12>He lived in Britain. We gave him a house. In fact,

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.510
<v Speaker 12>it looks like we might have given him several different houses.

0:34:00.550 --> 0:34:03.850
<v Speaker 12>He changed his identity several times. Then it was revealed

0:34:03.870 --> 0:34:06.490
<v Speaker 12>that he used his British passport to travel to Qatar

0:34:06.570 --> 0:34:11.470
<v Speaker 12>and Turkey regularly, which are Hamas-linked hotspots. Then it emerged

0:34:11.489 --> 0:34:14.549
<v Speaker 12>he was plotting terrorist attacks across Europe, specifically, we think,

0:34:14.910 --> 0:34:16.250
<v Speaker 12>Berlin and Vienna.

0:34:16.350 --> 0:34:17.069
<v Speaker 10>And he used his.

0:34:17.010 --> 0:34:20.770
<v Speaker 12>British passport to travel to these countries and smuggle guns around. Now,

0:34:20.810 --> 0:34:25.550
<v Speaker 12>these included automatic weapons, pistols and ammunition. When he was arrested,

0:34:25.950 --> 0:34:29.640
<v Speaker 12>it turned out he'd recorded, pre-recorded a jihadi video, which

0:34:29.700 --> 0:34:31.980
<v Speaker 12>is one of those ones where they claim responsibility for

0:34:32.020 --> 0:34:32.500
<v Speaker 12>the attacks.

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.239
<v Speaker 10>After the event. So he pre-recorded that.

0:34:35.660 --> 0:34:40.100
<v Speaker 12>Then the British courts decided to give him a 100-year

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:45.779
<v Speaker 12>anonymity order to protect his own anonymity. And this is

0:34:45.820 --> 0:34:49.620
<v Speaker 12>just absolutely bonkers. And the response from this government has

0:34:49.660 --> 0:34:52.509
<v Speaker 12>been yesterday, last night, to announce that we are now

0:34:52.650 --> 0:34:57.430
<v Speaker 12>opening up a route for more Palestinian and Gazan refugees.

0:34:57.690 --> 0:35:00.490
<v Speaker 10>Their response to this is, we need more of the same.

0:35:00.630 --> 0:35:02.009
<v Speaker 10>And just last week.

0:35:02.630 --> 0:35:04.660
<v Speaker 12>It was revealed that Abu Hamza, you know, the old

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:09.910
<v Speaker 12>huck-handed hate cleric that was an al-Qaeda... inspired fanatic, the

0:35:09.930 --> 0:35:12.969
<v Speaker 12>quite famous one who's currently in a US prison. We've

0:35:12.989 --> 0:35:17.370
<v Speaker 12>given his wife a £ 1. 7 million council house in central London,

0:35:17.610 --> 0:35:21.300
<v Speaker 12>and we're paying £ 70, 000 worth of taxpayers' money to renovate it.

0:35:21.570 --> 0:35:25.950
<v Speaker 12>This is suicidal empathy. It's national suicide. It absolutely beggars belief.

0:35:26.190 --> 0:35:28.210
<v Speaker 10>And the big question here in Britain now for people

0:35:28.489 --> 0:35:31.180
<v Speaker 10>is how many more of these people are there in

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:32.719
<v Speaker 10>Britain that we don't know about?

0:35:32.739 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 12>And And we've got lucky here in a way, but

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:38.440
<v Speaker 12>we might not keep getting lucky. And how does the

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.400
<v Speaker 12>British state expect the public to react if one of

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:43.400
<v Speaker 12>these people slips through the net and it turns out

0:35:43.739 --> 0:35:46.620
<v Speaker 12>we've invited them in, treated them like royalty, and then

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:47.670
<v Speaker 12>they've killed a load of us?

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.790
<v Speaker 10>I mean, what is it they actually expect to happen there?

0:35:50.450 --> 0:35:53.210
<v Speaker 1>Patrick, we in the West, we're all very polite, right?

0:35:53.230 --> 0:35:55.710
<v Speaker 2>There's a terror attack, we get a grand piano, we

0:35:55.750 --> 0:35:59.450
<v Speaker 2>play John Lennon's Imagine and we light some candles and

0:35:59.469 --> 0:36:01.350
<v Speaker 2>then we forget about it and move on to the

0:36:01.390 --> 0:36:05.140
<v Speaker 2>next one. Stuff like this, though, is just a whole

0:36:05.219 --> 0:36:08.850
<v Speaker 2>other level. At what point do the polite citizenry say,

0:36:09.219 --> 0:36:13.510
<v Speaker 2>we cannot take this anymore and things start to spiral

0:36:13.570 --> 0:36:14.150
<v Speaker 2>out of control?

0:36:15.370 --> 0:36:18.210
<v Speaker 12>Well, the only thing with this is that these stories

0:36:18.410 --> 0:36:21.760
<v Speaker 12>are sensational for about 12 hours in Britain before another

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 12>story like it happened and knocks.

0:36:23.739 --> 0:36:24.720
<v Speaker 10>It down the news agenda.

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.299
<v Speaker 12>I mean, the asylum to the Hamas guy was the

0:36:27.340 --> 0:36:31.739
<v Speaker 12>big news until we had five apparent Iranian-backed militants that

0:36:31.780 --> 0:36:33.640
<v Speaker 12>were about to blow up a military base. I mean,

0:36:33.900 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 12>now we've got a story that's just come across the

0:36:35.820 --> 0:36:38.330
<v Speaker 12>English channel of a bloke who smuggled a 14-year-old girl

0:36:38.370 --> 0:36:41.750
<v Speaker 12>across and lived with her in Manchester for... a couple

0:36:41.790 --> 0:36:45.089
<v Speaker 12>of years undetected again. It's every single hour or every

0:36:45.110 --> 0:36:47.030
<v Speaker 12>single few hours, there just seems to be another story

0:36:47.050 --> 0:36:48.689
<v Speaker 12>that knocks it down the pecking order. And we're coming

0:36:48.989 --> 0:36:51.710
<v Speaker 12>desensitized to this here in Britain. But when you see

0:36:51.750 --> 0:36:53.370
<v Speaker 12>it all laid out in front of you in the

0:36:53.390 --> 0:36:54.730
<v Speaker 12>manner in which, you know, you and I have just

0:36:54.750 --> 0:36:57.140
<v Speaker 12>done here, it is the kind of thing that, you know,

0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.160
<v Speaker 12>you think, Well, at what point do people start protesting?

0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:02.719
<v Speaker 12>At what point do people start thinking, you know, I've

0:37:02.739 --> 0:37:03.200
<v Speaker 12>had enough of this.

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:04.790
<v Speaker 10>I don't want to pay my taxes anymore.

0:37:04.810 --> 0:37:08.469
<v Speaker 12>My taxes are going to Hamas militants that are living in.

0:37:08.469 --> 0:37:10.840
<v Speaker 10>We've got a bigger house than I've got.

0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:11.520
<v Speaker 1>It's ridiculous.

0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:15.799
<v Speaker 2>Smaller stuff than this has inspired revolutions, that's for sure.

0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Patrick Christies, always love catching up. Thanks so much for

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 2>your time. All right, after the break, followers of a

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.029
<v Speaker 2>Muslim preacher are being told to take up arms and

0:37:25.110 --> 0:37:27.610
<v Speaker 2>pressure mounts on Tony Burke to deny the visa of

0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:32.310
<v Speaker 2>a streamer with extremist views who's booked to speak with

0:37:32.530 --> 0:37:33.410
<v Speaker 2>our young people.

0:37:33.890 --> 0:37:35.430
<v Speaker 1>All of that with my panel after this.

0:37:39.989 --> 0:37:42.370
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a real pity the government's Royal Commission

0:37:42.430 --> 0:37:46.350
<v Speaker 2>into Anti-Semitism has already concluded because they could have called

0:37:46.370 --> 0:37:50.399
<v Speaker 2>this guy to give evidence. Abu Hamad is an increasingly

0:37:50.500 --> 0:37:54.759
<v Speaker 2>popular Muslim preacher in Melbourne where he teaches Islam out

0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:59.320
<v Speaker 2>of the Al-Bayina Islamic Centre in Springvale. It's just been revealed,

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.260
<v Speaker 2>and when I say revealed, I mean someone's finally bothered

0:38:02.300 --> 0:38:05.500
<v Speaker 2>to notice, that back in July he preached a sermon

0:38:05.580 --> 0:38:08.500
<v Speaker 2>calling on Muslims to take up arms against.

0:38:08.250 --> 0:38:10.030
<v Speaker 1>Jews and Christians.

0:38:10.770 --> 0:38:13.629
<v Speaker 2>After instructing his congregation they should not be friends with

0:38:13.670 --> 0:38:17.810
<v Speaker 2>Jews or with Christians. But apparently unfriending Jews and Christians

0:38:17.890 --> 0:38:21.390
<v Speaker 2>is not quite enough. He added this, for the sake

0:38:21.430 --> 0:38:25.049
<v Speaker 2>of Allah, it includes the obligation to declare enmity for

0:38:25.090 --> 0:38:28.270
<v Speaker 2>his sake, opposition for the sake of Allah. It is

0:38:28.310 --> 0:38:32.489
<v Speaker 2>to declare opposition indeed, to take up arms against his enemies,

0:38:32.550 --> 0:38:35.180
<v Speaker 2>to shun them and to stay far away from both

0:38:35.380 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 2>in word and deed. And then it seems to me

0:38:39.140 --> 0:38:43.340
<v Speaker 2>that he clarified he wasn't speaking figuratively. He said, this

0:38:43.450 --> 0:38:46.340
<v Speaker 2>proves that simple opposition of the spirit is not enough

0:38:46.700 --> 0:38:49.840
<v Speaker 2>and that it must be complete by honouring your commitment.

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.420
<v Speaker 1>Not exactly a standard interfaith dialogue.

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:56.450
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps take it up with our take up arms is

0:38:56.730 --> 0:39:00.250
<v Speaker 2>one of those wonderfully nuanced theological expressions. It sounds exactly

0:39:00.310 --> 0:39:03.549
<v Speaker 2>like take up arms, but means something completely different once

0:39:03.690 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>a lawyer gets involved. There's another interesting detail to all

0:39:07.739 --> 0:39:12.740
<v Speaker 2>of this, though. This Muslim preacher, Abu Ahmad, has visited

0:39:12.780 --> 0:39:17.730
<v Speaker 2>the same Sydney Islamic Prayer Centre reportedly attended by alleged

0:39:17.810 --> 0:39:22.609
<v Speaker 2>Bondi gunman, Naveed Akram, where Akram allegedly formed connections with

0:39:22.690 --> 0:39:27.529
<v Speaker 2>Islamic State supporters. Now, I'm not suggesting anything untoward. I'm

0:39:27.550 --> 0:39:31.120
<v Speaker 2>merely noting the rather extraordinary irony that a preacher telling

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Muslims to stay far away from Jews and Christians appears

0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.259
<v Speaker 2>to have been considerably less particular about some of his

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:42.450
<v Speaker 2>own associations. One nation leader, Pauline Hanson, has responded to

0:39:42.530 --> 0:39:45.230
<v Speaker 2>all of this by calling on the Albanese government to

0:39:45.290 --> 0:39:48.969
<v Speaker 2>create laws that deal directly with radical Islamists. In a

0:39:49.030 --> 0:39:52.390
<v Speaker 2>social media post, she said, Labour and the Greens keep

0:39:52.590 --> 0:39:56.450
<v Speaker 2>reaching for broad laws covering the whole community because they're

0:39:56.469 --> 0:40:01.110
<v Speaker 2>too scared to confront radical Islamic terrorism directly. Stop lecturing

0:40:01.130 --> 0:40:04.230
<v Speaker 2>the whole country and pretending every group presents the same risk.

0:40:04.700 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Christians aren't calling for jihad. Hindus aren't calling for jihad.

0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:13.259
<v Speaker 2>Create laws that go directly after fundamentalist Islamic preachers who

0:40:13.300 --> 0:40:18.739
<v Speaker 2>encourage terrorist violence and recruiters and networks supporting them. Joining

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:22.600
<v Speaker 2>me is News 24 contributor James Bolt and former Liberal senator,

0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:26.540
<v Speaker 2>now with One Nation, Holly Hughes. James, does Pauline Hanson

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:27.359
<v Speaker 2>have a point here?

0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:29.930
<v Speaker 13>She's got a little bit of a point in that

0:40:30.010 --> 0:40:32.830
<v Speaker 13>Labor and the Greens are far too reticent to call

0:40:32.910 --> 0:40:36.490
<v Speaker 13>out radical Islam. But the other stuff she said there,

0:40:36.590 --> 0:40:40.370
<v Speaker 13>I've got to disagree with. All laws target all segments

0:40:40.410 --> 0:40:43.319
<v Speaker 13>of the community. You can't just... rewrite one law to

0:40:43.340 --> 0:40:45.879
<v Speaker 13>target one segment. It's going to affect all of us. Now,

0:40:45.940 --> 0:40:48.839
<v Speaker 13>do I trust every single government that's going to be

0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:50.540
<v Speaker 13>in power over me for the rest of my life

0:40:50.660 --> 0:40:54.100
<v Speaker 13>to never think that anything I might say might be

0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:56.760
<v Speaker 13>thought of as hateful or as thought of as something

0:40:56.820 --> 0:41:00.060
<v Speaker 13>that needs to be actioned? So, look, you can't just

0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.460
<v Speaker 13>say we need, you know, more laws, we need just

0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 13>random laws that are just going to stop this.

0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:05.299
<v Speaker 2>It's an.

0:41:06.140 --> 0:41:06.490
<v Speaker 1>We need.

0:41:07.620 --> 0:41:09.450
<v Speaker 13>Like, we need to trust the laws that we already have,

0:41:09.510 --> 0:41:11.210
<v Speaker 13>trust the police to be able to enforce the laws

0:41:11.230 --> 0:41:13.270
<v Speaker 13>that we already have, and if we are going to

0:41:13.310 --> 0:41:15.670
<v Speaker 13>start talking about future laws that need to change that,

0:41:15.690 --> 0:41:17.810
<v Speaker 13>we need to just be aware that these laws could

0:41:17.850 --> 0:41:20.410
<v Speaker 13>be used against views that we currently think are actually

0:41:20.450 --> 0:41:21.069
<v Speaker 13>OK to say.

0:41:21.770 --> 0:41:25.739
<v Speaker 2>Which is why this whole issue has been so vexed. Holly,

0:41:25.760 --> 0:41:29.279
<v Speaker 2>we've got to be careful with this conversation, but I've

0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:31.940
<v Speaker 2>long argued that treating all religions the same is not

0:41:31.980 --> 0:41:36.260
<v Speaker 2>only theologically wrong and intellectually naive, it's dangerous.

0:41:37.500 --> 0:41:40.339
<v Speaker 7>You couldn't be more right and Patrick Christie was just fantastic.

0:41:40.739 --> 0:41:42.640
<v Speaker 7>We tend to be a couple of years after the

0:41:42.660 --> 0:41:47.340
<v Speaker 7>UK and we seem to be walking blindly into radical

0:41:47.460 --> 0:41:53.640
<v Speaker 7>Islam and their calls for jihad and for terrorism against

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:57.360
<v Speaker 7>Australian citizens, whether they be Christians or Jews. And the

0:41:57.410 --> 0:42:00.730
<v Speaker 7>thing is when these sorts of jihadi activities take place,

0:42:01.350 --> 0:42:04.150
<v Speaker 7>they aren't that discriminatory. They don't ask you to show

0:42:04.210 --> 0:42:06.930
<v Speaker 7>your passport and what your religion is.

0:42:07.410 --> 0:42:08.430
<v Speaker 1>Before they shoot.

0:42:08.850 --> 0:42:11.850
<v Speaker 7>So, you know, I have absolutely no problem with what

0:42:11.890 --> 0:42:14.670
<v Speaker 7>Pauline has said. It is Labor and the Greens that

0:42:14.710 --> 0:42:18.190
<v Speaker 7>keep trying to bundle it all into one. And they

0:42:18.250 --> 0:42:20.670
<v Speaker 7>can't help but say, oh, but the far right, it's

0:42:20.750 --> 0:42:23.090
<v Speaker 7>not the far right. It isn't Christians.

0:42:23.230 --> 0:42:24.150
<v Speaker 1>It isn't Jews.

0:42:24.469 --> 0:42:27.509
<v Speaker 7>And as Pauline says, it isn't Hindus calling for this

0:42:27.570 --> 0:42:30.940
<v Speaker 7>sort of action to be taken place on our side.

0:42:31.460 --> 0:42:34.980
<v Speaker 7>soil now if this guy has dual citizenship he should

0:42:35.020 --> 0:42:37.990
<v Speaker 7>be on the next plane out of here we do

0:42:38.030 --> 0:42:40.910
<v Speaker 7>not want these people in our country and anyone who

0:42:40.950 --> 0:42:45.050
<v Speaker 7>subscribes those views should be gone quicker than we can say.

0:42:44.850 --> 0:42:48.799
<v Speaker 2>So These comments urging Muslims to take up arms against

0:42:48.940 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Jews and Christians, they weren't hidden. They were posted openly

0:42:52.780 --> 0:42:55.900
<v Speaker 2>on social media. What does that say to you, James?

0:42:57.320 --> 0:42:58.919
<v Speaker 13>The biggest worry I have on that one is that

0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:02.509
<v Speaker 13>the comments were made in July. So, you know, this

0:43:02.550 --> 0:43:04.170
<v Speaker 13>is a couple of months ago that we're now talking

0:43:04.210 --> 0:43:06.310
<v Speaker 13>about this. So my worry is, like, how many of

0:43:06.330 --> 0:43:08.529
<v Speaker 13>these videos are out there on social media that we

0:43:08.550 --> 0:43:11.630
<v Speaker 13>just don't know about because they've never entered the public lexicon?

0:43:11.670 --> 0:43:11.790
<v Speaker 1>But.

0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:13.680
<v Speaker 13>To the point of like, you know, why would you

0:43:13.700 --> 0:43:15.580
<v Speaker 13>post this on social media? You have to think that

0:43:15.780 --> 0:43:18.180
<v Speaker 13>to a preacher like that, what he's saying is the truth.

0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.420
<v Speaker 13>Why would he hide it? This is exactly the message

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:22.719
<v Speaker 13>he wants out there. And I know I seem like

0:43:22.739 --> 0:43:25.399
<v Speaker 13>I'm going against what I said before about my love

0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:27.510
<v Speaker 13>of free speech, but I'd have to imagine that exactly

0:43:27.530 --> 0:43:29.669
<v Speaker 13>what he said in that video is something that could

0:43:29.730 --> 0:43:33.110
<v Speaker 13>be captured under laws that we already have. So I

0:43:33.150 --> 0:43:34.969
<v Speaker 13>worry it's not the fact that we don't have enough

0:43:35.010 --> 0:43:37.110
<v Speaker 13>laws to go after people. I worry that It's not

0:43:37.130 --> 0:43:39.830
<v Speaker 13>the inclination from the police or the resourcing from police

0:43:40.489 --> 0:43:43.050
<v Speaker 13>that allows them to go after that. So, you know,

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.500
<v Speaker 13>in some level, it's good that we know about this

0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.160
<v Speaker 13>because we can start to have a frank conversation about

0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:53.220
<v Speaker 13>this preacher and about the people that share those views.

0:43:53.340 --> 0:43:54.020
<v Speaker 10>But....

0:43:55.670 --> 0:43:56.790
<v Speaker 13>It's pretty horrifying stuff.

0:43:57.350 --> 0:43:59.930
<v Speaker 2>You know, I guess my thought when I see that

0:43:59.989 --> 0:44:04.100
<v Speaker 2>stuff just posted, you know, unashamedly is, Holly, clearly.

0:44:03.820 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 1>There's no fear of the law.

0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:07.820
<v Speaker 2>Clearly there's no concern, oh, we better keep this quiet

0:44:07.840 --> 0:44:10.580
<v Speaker 2>because if they find out what I've said, no worries

0:44:10.620 --> 0:44:11.980
<v Speaker 2>about that at all from this person.

0:44:13.270 --> 0:44:16.740
<v Speaker 7>But remember, we have preachers on the streets of Lakemba

0:44:16.860 --> 0:44:20.400
<v Speaker 7>after October 7th saying this was a day of celebration.

0:44:20.420 --> 0:44:24.339
<v Speaker 7>This is not new. Yet whether it's the AFP or

0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:27.540
<v Speaker 7>the Albanese government that is too scared to take action

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:31.719
<v Speaker 7>on this, the very first and foremost priority of a

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:35.799
<v Speaker 7>federal government is to protect its citizens. And yet this

0:44:35.900 --> 0:44:40.960
<v Speaker 7>government wants to take no action whatsoever. And we are now...

0:44:41.739 --> 0:44:46.980
<v Speaker 7>walking three years to October 7th and they have done zero.

0:44:47.340 --> 0:44:51.180
<v Speaker 7>They've called this Royal Commission kicking and screaming after the

0:44:51.219 --> 0:44:54.210
<v Speaker 7>loss of 15 lives and yet not one of these

0:44:54.270 --> 0:44:58.230
<v Speaker 7>hate preachers, not one of the ministers was called to

0:44:58.350 --> 0:45:02.069
<v Speaker 7>talk about what they have done or not done to

0:45:02.150 --> 0:45:06.510
<v Speaker 7>facilitate the growth of anti-Semitism and radical Islam in this country.

0:45:06.860 --> 0:45:10.379
<v Speaker 7>It is an absolute disgrace and I am For one,

0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:15.120
<v Speaker 7>and I know many, we've heard AFP experts say that,

0:45:15.420 --> 0:45:18.430
<v Speaker 7>and ASIO experts say, that we are looking down the

0:45:18.469 --> 0:45:23.150
<v Speaker 7>barrel of another attack. And yet this government is consistently

0:45:23.250 --> 0:45:25.989
<v Speaker 7>sitting on its hands. I hope, and now I've got

0:45:26.030 --> 0:45:29.009
<v Speaker 7>two James, James Bolt's right, that there are laws in

0:45:29.030 --> 0:45:31.660
<v Speaker 7>place for this. So why aren't they being enacted?

0:45:32.420 --> 0:45:34.780
<v Speaker 2>All right, while this Muslim preacher in Melbourne is urging

0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:38.400
<v Speaker 2>followers to take up arms against Jews and Christians, Tony

0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Burke is under pressure to refuse the visa of an

0:45:40.820 --> 0:45:44.940
<v Speaker 2>online political commentator named Hasan Piker. Hasan Piker is an

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:48.540
<v Speaker 2>American-born man who converted to Islam in his teens, spent

0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:51.719
<v Speaker 2>most of his childhood in Turkey. He's being promoted as

0:45:51.739 --> 0:45:56.010
<v Speaker 2>a headline act at a youth-orientated digital creator event scheduled

0:45:56.030 --> 0:45:58.660
<v Speaker 2>to take place in Melbourne in January. If you're not

0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:01.919
<v Speaker 2>familiar with this guy, here's a small sample of his views.

0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:05.130
<v Speaker 1>And remember, he's coming to talk to Melbourne young people.

0:46:06.410 --> 0:46:08.870
<v Speaker 10>America deserved 9-11 dude oh my.

0:46:08.750 --> 0:46:11.950
<v Speaker 14>God well hezbollah is a terrorist organization dog if hezbollah

0:46:11.969 --> 0:46:15.950
<v Speaker 14>is a terrorist organization america is the top terrorist organization

0:46:16.070 --> 0:46:17.930
<v Speaker 14>which it is by the way america is the top

0:46:17.950 --> 0:46:22.080
<v Speaker 14>dog in terrorism doesn't matter doesn't matter if rapes happen

0:46:22.180 --> 0:46:24.480
<v Speaker 14>on october 7 like that doesn't change the dynamic for

0:46:24.500 --> 0:46:28.020
<v Speaker 14>me even this much hezbollah is a is a paramilitary

0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:31.020
<v Speaker 14>organization that is also.

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.819
<v Speaker 1>A part of the lebanese parliament do we like them

0:46:33.860 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 1>or no I think as a resistance group, they're pretty

0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:39.460
<v Speaker 1>successful against Israel.

0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:42.029
<v Speaker 10>I don't have an issue with them, let's just say.

0:46:43.260 --> 0:46:45.279
<v Speaker 1>James, do we need this guy in Melbourne talking to

0:46:45.340 --> 0:46:45.919
<v Speaker 1>our young people?

0:46:46.260 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 13>Well, we don't need it. And for the people out

0:46:48.460 --> 0:46:50.550
<v Speaker 13>there who didn't know who Hasan Paika was, I'm very

0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:53.049
<v Speaker 13>envious of you. You know, I wish I didn't know

0:46:53.090 --> 0:46:55.250
<v Speaker 13>who that was. But I just wonder, like, what does

0:46:55.450 --> 0:46:58.350
<v Speaker 13>banning this guy's visa actually do? As you just played,

0:46:58.410 --> 0:47:00.910
<v Speaker 13>we can watch what Hasan Paika says. Like, if I

0:47:00.950 --> 0:47:02.910
<v Speaker 13>wanted to, I could watch a three-hour stream today. I

0:47:02.950 --> 0:47:03.509
<v Speaker 13>don't want to.

0:47:03.570 --> 0:47:04.069
<v Speaker 1>No-one should.

0:47:04.110 --> 0:47:07.030
<v Speaker 13>But you can do that. So, would banning a visa

0:47:07.050 --> 0:47:09.210
<v Speaker 13>just be us as a country going, you know, like,

0:47:09.250 --> 0:47:11.140
<v Speaker 13>it makes us feel better to know this person can't

0:47:11.180 --> 0:47:11.520
<v Speaker 13>get in?

0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:14.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, again, I don't worry. Doesn't it say the same

0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:16.780
<v Speaker 2>as in my own house? I just don't let anyone

0:47:16.820 --> 0:47:19.980
<v Speaker 2>into my house, especially people who say such vile stuff.

0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:21.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying... Agreed... we don't want you here.

0:47:21.739 --> 0:47:23.859
<v Speaker 13>But then, like, doesn't Tony Burke then get to say, well,

0:47:23.880 --> 0:47:26.219
<v Speaker 13>how about all those Israeli politicians that I've banned and

0:47:26.260 --> 0:47:29.819
<v Speaker 13>Israeli speakers that I've banned? Like, people find them just

0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:31.400
<v Speaker 13>as hateful. I'm not saying I find them hateful, but

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:33.620
<v Speaker 13>people find them just as hateful. How can we turn

0:47:33.660 --> 0:47:37.140
<v Speaker 13>around and say, you know, we want Hassan Paika not

0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:39.799
<v Speaker 13>allowed in the country, but all those other people... that,

0:47:40.420 --> 0:47:42.060
<v Speaker 13>you know, the Greens don't want here, they shouldn't be

0:47:42.100 --> 0:47:42.490
<v Speaker 13>allowed in.

0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:45.500
<v Speaker 1>Holly, I think you'll probably have a slightly different take.

0:47:48.140 --> 0:47:48.780
<v Speaker 9>Oh, you think?

0:47:49.390 --> 0:47:52.509
<v Speaker 7>Absolutely not. I mean, this guy should be banned from

0:47:52.530 --> 0:47:56.489
<v Speaker 7>the country. He is abhorrent in his views. Everything he says,

0:47:56.570 --> 0:47:59.250
<v Speaker 7>as a woman to hear him say, rape is excusable.

0:47:59.270 --> 0:48:02.410
<v Speaker 7>I mean, on God's great notes, what are we doing

0:48:02.510 --> 0:48:07.509
<v Speaker 7>allowing these people to come in? And I bet Tony

0:48:07.660 --> 0:48:10.759
<v Speaker 7>Burke does. But if you look at Melbourne and the

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:13.890
<v Speaker 7>crime rates they've already got there and what's going on, yeah,

0:48:13.930 --> 0:48:16.670
<v Speaker 7>let's radicalise them all a little bit more, shall we?

0:48:16.730 --> 0:48:17.770
<v Speaker 1>How disgraceful.

0:48:18.010 --> 0:48:20.910
<v Speaker 2>I've got to say the UK did ban him from

0:48:21.350 --> 0:48:24.890
<v Speaker 2>entering England. They said they could do without his influence.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see what Tony Burke does. James Bolt, Holly Hughes,

0:48:27.750 --> 0:48:30.129
<v Speaker 2>always lovely chatting. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks

0:48:30.170 --> 0:48:32.270
<v Speaker 2>for watching at home. I'll see you tomorrow night. Right now,

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<v Speaker 2>here's Shari Markson.