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Speaker 1: Thanks for downloading the show. This is better than Yesterday. Welcome,

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Speaker 1: glad you're here. This is a podcast that is full

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Speaker 1: of useful tools and useful conversations. They help make your

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Speaker 1: day to day better than yesterday. And it's been here

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Speaker 1: every week since twenty thirteen. Min Ams Rosha Ginsburg. Thanks

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Speaker 1: to downloading the show. Thanks for being here. It's summer.

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Speaker 1: The team and I take a bit of a break. However,

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Speaker 1: we're grabbing some episodes out of the storage and throwing

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Speaker 1: them back up the flag pole. Hoist them up into

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Speaker 1: the air, get them flapping around of the ear in

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Speaker 1: the breeze for a little bit. Because these conversations are fantastic.

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Speaker 1: They're the most popular, best received episodes we've done all year,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to play them because they're well worthed.

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Speaker 1: Listen or a second listen. So I'm going to open

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Speaker 1: this one with a question for you, what does the

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Speaker 1: future of Australia hold for your money? Because if you

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Speaker 1: are anything like me and our good friend Snoop Dogg,

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Speaker 1: we have our minds on our money and our money

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Speaker 1: on our minds. But unlike Snoop Dogg, you and me

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Speaker 1: we're not laid back about it bring some clarity to this.

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Speaker 1: My guest today, Chris Kohler is here. He's a TV presenter.

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Speaker 1: He's the National Finance editor of nine News. He's the

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Speaker 1: author of the new book How They Get You, Sneaky

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Speaker 1: Everyday Economics and Smart Ways to Hold Onto Your Money.

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Speaker 1: And he's an absolute delight, a wonderful thinker, a lovely communicator,

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Speaker 1: devilishly handsome and has some excellent insights into the cost

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Speaker 1: of living crisis, to changing economy of Australia and what

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Speaker 1: we can all do to save a little bit where

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Speaker 1: it counts.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy the show. Thanks for coming in, Curiz, Thanks for

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Speaker 2: having me. I'm really good.

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Speaker 1: The state of origin is Rugby League Christmas. When the

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Speaker 1: federal budget drops? Is that like economy Christmas? Are you

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Speaker 1: all like super excited?

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Speaker 2: It kind of is. It's really embarrassing to say that

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Speaker 2: we all just nerd out, and it's really cool because God,

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Speaker 2: listen to me. Really cool. You get to put your

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Speaker 2: phone away, get handed a big stack of documents and

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Speaker 2: just sit there and just read through what the government's

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Speaker 2: up to. And it's kind of fun. It doesn't sound

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Speaker 2: like fun when I say it, now.

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Speaker 1: Well it kind of does. Why should we give a

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Speaker 1: shit about the budget?

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Speaker 2: Well, all of our money, right, so it's all we

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Speaker 2: open our wallets to the tune of tens of thousands

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Speaker 2: of dollars every year, and it's kind of interesting to

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Speaker 2: know where they're going to put all that money. So

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Speaker 2: you know the sort of the changes are often you know,

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Speaker 2: little tweaks, but you know, depending on who you are

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Speaker 2: and where you work, it can make a big difference,

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Speaker 2: I reckon.

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Speaker 1: So I'm the product of someone that is most definitely

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Speaker 1: the son of Both of my parents are both doctors,

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Speaker 1: all right, and they're both very interested in culture at

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Speaker 1: the same time as being interested in science and stuff

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Speaker 1: like this. So I learned a lot about music. I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about art. I learned a lot about

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Speaker 1: performance from both of my parents. And just yesterday on

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Speaker 1: the plane, I was helping Wolfgang learn how to draw.

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Speaker 1: He's really interested in transformers right now and he wants

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Speaker 1: to draw one of them. Elita one, the lady one,

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Speaker 1: And I said, mate, everything's just circles, rectangles and triangles,

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Speaker 1: And we went through a picture and I showed him

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Speaker 1: there's a circle, there, there's a rectangle, and he's like

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Speaker 1: he created He's five at what age did you start

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Speaker 1: to understand and what deficits and surplus has started to be.

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Speaker 2: There are circles in the triangles of my household.

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Speaker 1: We are you sitting there eating cornflakes, and Dad's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so there's a surplus of milk here, son, You've gone

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Speaker 1: into a corn flake deficit. The balance is all out

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Speaker 1: way too milky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. A bit like that. Wasting your money had a

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Speaker 2: very serious chat behind it in my house. You came

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Speaker 2: home and you bought something stupid. It was like, did

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Speaker 2: you really need to buy that? What's that going to

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Speaker 2: do for you? But I'm actually just scrolling away the

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Speaker 2: circles and triangles because I got to use that. That's

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Speaker 2: a ripper.

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Speaker 1: It's real good.

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Speaker 2: But look for me. So my dad taught me how

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Speaker 2: to drive, and a memory that I firmly have is

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Speaker 2: we used to get in the car. I was on

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Speaker 2: a learner's permit, and he would just answer the phone

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Speaker 2: the whole morning on our way to wherever, and it

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Speaker 2: was him talking to his producer at the ABC, whose

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Speaker 2: name was Marco at the time Marco, and it was

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Speaker 2: just launched off into long chats and all I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do was understand what was going on in those chats,

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Speaker 2: and so I kind of without deliberately doing so, I

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Speaker 2: just wanted to learn the language to speak with him.

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Speaker 1: So he didn't infuse it upon you.

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Speaker 2: Or absolutely not. His biggest piece of advice coming up

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Speaker 2: was don't be a journalist. If you are insistent on

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Speaker 2: being a journalist, don't be a financial journalist. Strikes one

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Speaker 2: or two right there, Woos.

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Speaker 1: So, at what point did you start to realize that

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Speaker 1: you understood the way that money worked and therefore how

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Speaker 1: the country worked a bit better than your friends.

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Speaker 2: Look, I started working as a financial markets reporter straight

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Speaker 2: out of UNI in my early twenties, and it was

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Speaker 2: just sort of this immersive thing of now you're learning

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Speaker 2: about how to read a market update from Woolworths or

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Speaker 2: BHP or whatever. And it's a very kind of daunting

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Speaker 2: thing at first, and then over time you find out

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Speaker 2: you're observing something that is very big and the wheels

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Speaker 2: are always turning, and then after a while you can

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Speaker 2: kind of start to see the light and shade in it,

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Speaker 2: and you can kind of start to see the humor

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Speaker 2: in it. You can kind of become, you know, someone

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Speaker 2: who is able to watch the play and the dance

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Speaker 2: as it unfolds. And I'm by no means a financial

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Speaker 2: expert in that I'm not sitting on top of a

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Speaker 2: huge property portfolio or a pile of gold or equities

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Speaker 2: that would make anybody sweat. But I just I love

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Speaker 2: the kind of the dance of it all, you know,

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Speaker 2: all these people putting on their suits and kind of

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Speaker 2: being very serious, even though in many ways it's kind

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Speaker 2: of absurd.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I understood property portfolio. The other two things you

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Speaker 1: said I did not understand, which is probably where I am.

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Speaker 1: Where I am and my super looks like it does

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Speaker 1: though I've spent I've spent a lot of time in

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Speaker 1: America and have makes it the big you know, big firms,

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Speaker 1: the big, big big ones and their partners and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. They're all as tall as you, they're all

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Speaker 1: as good looking as you. How did you avoid becoming

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Speaker 1: the banker anchor?

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Speaker 2: There weren't the invitations? Yeah, I know, I look, look, No,

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Speaker 2: I never really thought about going into the actual making

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Speaker 2: of the money rather than just the looking at it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, it's it's a funny thing.

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Speaker 2: I kind of you know, I came out of Union,

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Speaker 2: I just sort of thought, yeah, I'm going to be

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Speaker 2: a journalist. I didn't really pursue much else, right, you know,

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Speaker 2: And and like there's been opportunities along the way to

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Speaker 2: get out of journalism, of course, but I never really

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Speaker 2: thought too long and hard about it. There was always

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Speaker 2: too many interesting things going on.

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Speaker 1: What is it that you think is the appeal of

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Speaker 1: that path? I mean, you didn't try it, but I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you've got mates that did go that way.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, I mean, yeah, I've got made to you

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Speaker 2: all these lawyers heading for partner and you know, I

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Speaker 2: interview and deal with people in the finance space all

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Speaker 2: the time who are killing it, but they don't have

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Speaker 2: much of a work life balance. I mean, the appeal

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Speaker 2: of it is money, you know, frankly, like it's very

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Speaker 2: hard to live in a big house in Sydney or

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne, or in Queensland anywhere really unless you have

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Speaker 2: family wealth, or unless you're in one of those types

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Speaker 2: of jobs. And so I think there is absolutely an

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Speaker 2: understandable drive to want to get there. And so I'll

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Speaker 2: kind of I never sort of disparage people for wanting

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Speaker 2: to do that, but it's I mean, it seems a

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Speaker 2: little bit sol destroying to be grinding away at that

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Speaker 2: sort of pursuit all the time. They have to make

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Speaker 2: millions while they're there, and they have to fend off

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Speaker 2: people all the time. It's kind of it's simpler to

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Speaker 2: just report on that.

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Speaker 1: At one point, speaking of the reporting, if there's one

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Speaker 1: thing that I just love about your work, and it's

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Speaker 1: something that I really align with, because this is the

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Speaker 1: first year I haven't done the Comedy Festival in a

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Speaker 1: couple years, I was doing a fake news show down there,

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Speaker 1: and to avoid getting suits for defamation because we're reporting

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Speaker 1: on real people doing actual things, we decided to make

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Speaker 1: the moral question the joke every time. It wasn't a

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Speaker 1: failure of this politician or that politician, it was the

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Speaker 1: failure of the policy as far as like a general

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Speaker 1: moral value, widely well collectively held value. And I see

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Speaker 1: a lot of that in your work, and I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: how that first started to appear to you, Like, hang

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Speaker 1: on a fucking second, Like this is not okay that

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Speaker 1: these companies are making this much money. And at the

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Speaker 1: core of it is this moral choice, clear moral choice

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Speaker 1: to just wrought and gouge and sometimes destroy people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, it's really it's really nice of you

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Speaker 2: to say. Look, it's been something that's developed slowly. I

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Speaker 2: was reporting these stories and think about journalism, all kinds

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Speaker 2: of journalism really is that there's structures to it. You

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Speaker 2: play within the boundaries that have been set over decades

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Speaker 2: of this business being made. You know, you interview these

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Speaker 2: types of people, You put together the story in these

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Speaker 2: types of ways. If you watch the news or read

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Speaker 2: a newspaper, you can see the structures because they're taught.

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Speaker 2: And I was coming home a lot and I was

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Speaker 2: talking to my wife Susanna about the stories that I

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Speaker 2: was covering and about what had bothered me about them,

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Speaker 2: you know, whether or not there was something that I

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Speaker 2: wasn't really able to get across that I wanted to.

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Speaker 2: And invariably we'd end up chuckling between us about the

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Speaker 2: type of silliness. And you know, what would it be

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Speaker 2: like to be in those boardrooms where they come up

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Speaker 2: with those decisions? I mean, could it be as ridiculous

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Speaker 2: as well? How else can we make money out of

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Speaker 2: these people? You know, can we squeeze them anymore? Is

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Speaker 2: there anywhere we're not squeezing it? And you know, we

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Speaker 2: kind of ended up, just sort of having this little laugh,

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Speaker 2: you know, a bit. It is like that they're just

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Speaker 2: people like, yeah, they've gone a UNI and they're smart,

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Speaker 2: but sometimes they're a pack of idiots as well. You know.

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Speaker 2: Surely so you can do the swearing for you.

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Speaker 1: It's okay, is it okay?

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Speaker 2: I saw you can swear all your life, Thank you

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Speaker 2: very much. We go up to crap in my world,

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Speaker 2: no further, Oh okay, sometimes not even crap.

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Speaker 1: Oh what if you're reporting on a one for one

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Speaker 1: toilet paper company.

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Speaker 2: I think we I think we're allowed to say shit

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Speaker 2: in certain certain circumstances. Or if you said it, if

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Speaker 2: I interviewed you and you said shit, then that's going up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's fine.

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Speaker 1: That's why I said Archadel was swearing for you. What

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Speaker 1: I love about it's essentially what you're doing is satire,

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Speaker 1: but rather political Saturds's come as my financial satire, which

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Speaker 1: I really really love. There's something about satire which is

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Speaker 1: super super powerful, and then it can change public opinion

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Speaker 1: way more than any editorial or any big front page

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, because if the moral question is

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Speaker 1: the thing that is the joke, Like particularly you did

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Speaker 1: one on Tap and Go fees and it was just

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Speaker 1: like if fucking hell man, my mind knew they made money,

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Speaker 1: but I know they made billions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is just and these things develop relatively quickly.

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Speaker 2: Like the problem with me and everybody is that our

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Speaker 2: notions of things are kind of caught five years ago.

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Speaker 2: Things change faster than we kind of catch up to them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of people still feel like two

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Speaker 2: thousand was a couple of years ago, Like you know,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like we have this anchoring

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Speaker 2: thing that we do, and I think with things like tapping,

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Speaker 2: a new innovation comes along and it's really great and

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Speaker 2: it's really accessible and bang bang bang, away you go.

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Speaker 2: And then before you know it, you kind of oh,

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Speaker 2: what is this extra ten cents I'm paying every time?

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Speaker 2: And how much does that add up to? And you're

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Speaker 2: so deep in it by the time you catch up

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Speaker 2: to what's happening that you know, you're a bit lost.

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Speaker 1: So let's use that as a bit of an example.

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Speaker 1: What does that ten cents add.

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Speaker 2: Up to four billion dollars a year nationally? I mean,

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Speaker 2: internationally is much bigger than that, Like it's and the

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Speaker 2: thing is, it's all like, so there's a little radio frequent.

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Speaker 2: This is amazing stuff to me, and apology is an advantage.

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Speaker 1: You don't worry, you don't let the don't let the

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Speaker 1: T shirt and the motorcycle force.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know. Like so the radio frequency stuff

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Speaker 2: goes back to you know, World War two planes, how

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Speaker 2: do we identify our planes as opposed to others? And

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Speaker 2: it kind of, you know, it started getting used. I've

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Speaker 2: got you know, I've got a swipe card that works

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Speaker 2: on a security pass. These sorts of things have been

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Speaker 2: used for decades and then around early two thousands, Visa

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Speaker 2: and MasterCard popped it into their cards and they introduced

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Speaker 2: this payWave idea. It took a little while to take

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Speaker 2: off because none of the merchant terminals could really do it.

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Speaker 2: So after a little while the merchant terminals catch up.

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Speaker 2: Everybody starts putting the payWave stuff on their phone and

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Speaker 2: instead of having to insert your card or swipe your card,

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Speaker 2: which is a little bit of a hurdle to the

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Speaker 2: payment thing, it became seamless. And that is what payments

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Speaker 2: have to be. If a business is getting your money,

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Speaker 2: they want it to be like that. But if you

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Speaker 2: want to kind of communicate with them or maybe ask

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Speaker 2: a question or make it plant. No, no, no, it

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Speaker 2: can be much longer and harder. But getting your money

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Speaker 2: has to be so fast and so easy. And so

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Speaker 2: when it started becoming a matter of tapping your card

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Speaker 2: and then tapping your phone, I mean you're often racing

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Speaker 2: like people. There's no more mental arithmetic that needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: Somebody says, tap your phone here and you go bang,

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Speaker 2: and then you're away. You're gone.

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Speaker 1: I've got my thing, you know I've left. It's down

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Speaker 1: the street.

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Speaker 2: Deep in our brains, there's this thing that's been written

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Speaker 2: quite a lot about by academics called the pain of paying.

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Speaker 2: If I hand over a twenty dollar note, it hurts.

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Speaker 2: There's a part of my brain that just doesn't like

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Speaker 2: it because I've accumulated, I've worked hard for it, I'm

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Speaker 2: tapping my phone. None of that bypasses it entirely.

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Speaker 1: It's the same reason that you have a chip at

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Speaker 1: a casino you trade your cash besides this thing, because

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Speaker 1: you're not seeing your hundred bucks one hundred dollar note.

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Speaker 1: It's just a little green piece of plastic.

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Speaker 2: Off it goes perfect example, loops it easy. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of how it feels. Is in very businesses

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Speaker 2: like casinos. Other people see that that is a good

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Speaker 2: that has some depth to it. A supermarket, you know,

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Speaker 2: you put the good stuff at the back. You don't

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Speaker 2: have clocks, you don't have windows. You know, These sorts

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Speaker 2: of things like the casino aification of other sorts of business.

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Speaker 1: I guess, just taking a moment away from Crystal, let

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Speaker 1: you know that Story Club, the monthly live storytelling show

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Speaker 1: that I put on here in Sydney, is up on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Every week a new story goes up, and their live

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Speaker 1: shows returned in February. Tickets are on sale for the

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Speaker 1: next show in February right now. The linkers and the

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Speaker 1: show notes for both the YouTube channel and to get

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Speaker 1: the tickets. And while you're in those show notes, you

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Speaker 1: can also grab a copy of So What Now What,

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Speaker 1: which is a brand new book that I've written with

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Speaker 1: Cam Walker, and of course the memoir Back After the Break,

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Speaker 1: which is exactly where we will be in a moment.

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Speaker 1: It is playing at the core of it is playing

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Speaker 1: on our psychology.

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Speaker 2: So look, there's a lot of ways that you can

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Speaker 2: kind of justify these sorts of changes. It is convenient

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Speaker 2: if I lose my debit card, someone can tap it.

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Speaker 2: If I lose my wallet, someone can just take my cash.

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Speaker 2: But if I'm tapping my phone, I have to have

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Speaker 2: the facial recognition or maybe the thumb print software that

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Speaker 2: is secure. That's a fair point. I think you don't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of risk anymore that somebody else is

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Speaker 2: going to pickpocket you and run around town. You have

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Speaker 2: a lot of other risks. Scammers are just loving the

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Speaker 2: digital economy that we've gotten ourselves into. Anything where there's

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Speaker 2: a conversation to be had, these people are very good

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Speaker 2: at arguing their points. You're not going to sit them

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Speaker 2: down and change their mind, and they're not going to

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Speaker 2: unring the bell of digital payments and that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: We're there now. But I think broadly, the problem that

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Speaker 2: I have is that the tactics of confusion are so

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Speaker 2: lucrative now and they're so widely used. One of the

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Speaker 2: ones I like to talk about is telecommunications. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what is a gigabyte actually supposed to cost? Who knows.

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Speaker 2: They tell you the numbers that they want you to think,

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Speaker 2: but what is kind of riddled throughout that sect is

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Speaker 2: good old fashioned behavioral psychology. They want you to pick

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Speaker 2: this number and not those numbers. And so they'll give

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Speaker 2: you three options where one of them stands out to

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Speaker 2: you quite nicely, and that's the one they want you

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Speaker 2: to pick. But you know, the idea that a gigabyte

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Speaker 2: should cost you ten bucks or twenty bucks, nobody knows,

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Speaker 2: and so people just go along with it. In India,

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Speaker 2: a gigabyte costs basically nothing because in twenty sixteen, this

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Speaker 2: company called Geo came along and built their whole new

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Speaker 2: infrastructure and just decided to disrupt it themselves. There's issues

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Speaker 2: with that idea, but the problem is the structures that

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Speaker 2: we are really relying on are only one or two

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Speaker 2: steps away from getting the ass blown out of them

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Speaker 2: by a disruptor. And the confusion is kind of just

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Speaker 2: passed around, and it's frustrating, I think, to see as

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Speaker 2: it happens. I mean, we've all been there. You kind

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Speaker 2: of just go what is this charge? Like? Why is

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Speaker 2: there some sort of service fee and a handling fee?

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Speaker 2: Why if I wanted to buy a ticket to go

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Speaker 2: to a show, though I have to have a ticket

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Speaker 2: processing fee if it's a digital one on my phone.

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Speaker 2: What's going on here? And you can't have no recourse,

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Speaker 2: no where to turn, no where to share you for frustration,

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately the cynic in me and the kind of

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Speaker 2: the grim sort of underlying tone of these videos is

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Speaker 2: that it is inescapable and all you can try to

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Speaker 2: do is laugh about it.

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Speaker 1: For someone like me who has a hard time with

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Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff and is just complete prey

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Speaker 1: to this tactics of this what do you call it,

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Speaker 1: the tactic of confusion?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's how it feels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, How can I avoid getting stuck in this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing? What's the thing that I can start

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Speaker 1: to look for if I'm trying to change my dow

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Speaker 1: and to provide a role trying to get a different

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Speaker 1: phone plan.

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Speaker 2: Look, the unfortunate thing is they just keep saying shop around,

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Speaker 2: which is fine, but it puts the onus on you,

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Speaker 2: Like how much time do you have to shop around

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Speaker 2: for insurance? Your telecommunications provider, your phone plan, like all

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Speaker 2: of these things one after the other. Mortgage, you know,

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Speaker 2: five different types of insurance you. I kind of talk

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Speaker 2: to people about it as like the darkest day of

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Speaker 2: your half year. You have to sit down and think

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Speaker 2: about all this stuff. But if you just sort of say, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's my bad day, where I'm going to have to

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Speaker 2: do all that. Then you'll probably end up saving quite

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Speaker 2: a bit of money by doing it. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: the loyalty. I hate loyalty in our economy. Anything where

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Speaker 2: a business is trying to get you to not look

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Speaker 2: at the competitor for pricing and for service, I really

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Speaker 2: don't like that. So loyalty programs I don't think are

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Speaker 2: worth it. Pretty much blanket rule there. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: know a lot of people are going to be listening

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Speaker 2: to this and saying, well, mine is though, because you

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Speaker 2: know it's a credit card that gives me points, or

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Speaker 2: because it's an airline that gives me points, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the agabill see last week said look, you know, for

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Speaker 2: one of the big supermarkets, we're talking half a cent

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Speaker 2: discount for every dollar. You're giving them a lot of data.

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Speaker 2: You're getting giving them everything about you on a platter,

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Speaker 2: which then you know, I don't know anybody who reads

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Speaker 2: the terms and conditions, but they can usually package and

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Speaker 2: on sell that. And the person that's calling you from

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Speaker 2: a call center trying to pussele you for whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: You've probably given your information to somebody who's then sold

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Speaker 2: it to that person. But the cost is there. It's

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Speaker 2: a bad exchange rate. You know, here's all my information.

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Speaker 2: What am I getting in return some vague notion of

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Speaker 2: reward points somewhere. So I don't like that. I think

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Speaker 2: if it were me and I was sitting down with somebody,

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Speaker 2: I'd say, interrogate your loyalty programs and whether or not

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Speaker 2: they're worth it, and try to shop around as best

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Speaker 2: as you can and be as disloyal as possible to businesses.

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Speaker 1: There's a point in my life where I was just

404
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Speaker 1: being is the reason why I've got financially fucked, because

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Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of money when I was still

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Speaker 1: drinking and using. But the after effect of one of

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Speaker 1: them has I've got lifetime gold status at Corners.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good.

409
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Speaker 1: It was pretty good.

410
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Speaker 2: That's the exception.

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Speaker 1: It's fucking close to plantum lifetime. Stop drinking and stop

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Speaker 1: doing all kinds of dumbshit business class flights for the

413
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Speaker 1: first time ever because and for what that means is

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Speaker 1: that when you're traveling with the kids, you're board first

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Speaker 1: and you get to the lounge for the first time ever. Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: coming back from Brisbane, they made the first board boarding court.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's us, we get up. Oop,

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Speaker 1: You're in the next group, sir, Hang on what they've

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Speaker 1: put another fucking tier on top I was previously top tier,

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Speaker 1: and now there's an even special tier.

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Speaker 2: Change the rules of the game halfway through on you

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Speaker 2: hate that has lifetime, lifetime so annoyed.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to an election campaign, you can get

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Speaker 1: away with a lot, like if you and I are

425
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Speaker 1: running against each other, I can say, if you vote

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Speaker 1: for Chris, your taxes are going through the roof. I

427
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Speaker 1: don't even have to show proof. I could just say

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Speaker 1: they are.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: He's got a plan. He wants you just he wants

431
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Speaker 1: you to never go on holiday again. He wants you

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Speaker 1: to always board last. A vote for Crius is a

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Speaker 1: board for vote for boarding last. I don't have to

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Speaker 1: prove that, but you can just say all kinds of

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Speaker 1: wild shit, particularly when it comes to very complicated, complicated

436
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: economic problems like cost of living has got to be

437
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: a three hundred headed beast. There's no one reason, but

438
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: you can say in two sentences, I'm going to fix that.

439
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, can anyone fix it? The cost living thing? Ah? Jeez,

440
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 2: I mean no, Look, no, it's a big issue that

441
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 2: I think one of the most interesting things to me

442
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: about this whole election campaign is what they're not talking about.

443
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 2: So you're right, they're they're throwing haymakers at each other,

444
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 2: as every political campaign has always done. But what they're

445
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: really trying to do is get out of the way

446
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 2: of probably the Reserve Bank, which has the biggest cards,

447
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 2: you know, in its hand right now, because the market's

448
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 2: expecting three more rate cuts this year, which would probably

449
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 2: if you've got a six hundred thousand dollars mortgage, let's say,

450
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 2: probably puts two hundred and two hundred and forty bucks

451
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: in your two hundred and seventy actually in your pocket.

452
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: You just did that in your mind. You fucking did

453
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: that in your brain.

454
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: It's well, no, I mean, I can't of know you.

455
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 1: Health quite as far as I'm concerned right now you are.

456
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: It's all a trick, Gosha. So let's say two a

457
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: month in your pocket. The government is talking about potential

458
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 2: twenty bucks a month from midnext year onwards. The Coalition

459
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: is talking about dropping fuel taxes and maybe saving you

460
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: fourteen bucks a week. This is helpful, but the reserve

461
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 2: banks to one that's going to be really making a

462
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 2: play here. And you know, while they were hiking rates

463
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: all the time, all the political bodies wanted to do

464
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 2: is say, got nothing to do with us, guys. And

465
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 2: so now when rate's probably going to start coming down,

466
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: it's interesting to see whether or not they're going to

467
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: start taking credit or whether or not they're going to say,

468
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: you know, this is this is the economy writing itself.

469
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: So I think that's a big one to watch.

470
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: What are some of the other things that they're not

471
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: kind of deliberately not talking about.

472
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that, because the one thing that's

473
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 2: been bothering me lately and no one seems to be

474
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: talking about it is home insurance.

475
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: It's such a big issue.

476
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: And they don't have anything in the.

477
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: Budget, particularly if you're north of the Tropic of Capricorn.

478
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so this is huge, right. We talk about,

479
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: you know, energy rebates, we talk about fuel taxes, all

480
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: these sorts of things, tax cuts in general, but there

481
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: are large parts of the population now in very hazardous

482
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: areas who cannot get insured at all. That's going to

483
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: be an issue. You've got a population about thirty percent

484
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: can't afford the insurance they've got and almost all of

485
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: them are under insured because the cost of building a

486
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 2: house has gone up through the roof. So I think

487
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: there's a big problem there. And I think, you know,

488
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: if cyclone Alfred had a touchdown in southern Queensland and

489
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: northern New South Wales, category two wins would have been

490
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: a huge problem because if I'm not mistaken, anything below

491
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: Bunderberg doesn't really have to be built to withstand category

492
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: two wins. So I think insurance is a really big one,

493
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: and I think we're going to have to have that

494
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: conversation pretty soon because more and more houses, more and

495
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 2: more homes, and viable building land is going to be

496
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 2: seen to be unusable.

497
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: Had the CEO of the Climate Council land here the

498
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: other day, Amna mckencier, and we were talking about this

499
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: because i' alwas thought for a long time it's going

500
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: to be the insurance companies that drive climate policy, because

501
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: if we can't ensure our homes, or if a big

502
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: disaster comes through and empties an insurance company out, what

503
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: does that do for our ability to do business in Australia.

504
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's a massive problem. I mean we all

505
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: need insurance, just to kind of get by. I think

506
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: the housing markets, a lot of real estate agents are

507
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 2: now starting to see a lot more people do their

508
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: due diligence, including is this a flood risk, what's it

509
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: going to? What am I going to have to be

510
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: coughing up here in terms of insurance costs. Whereas rewind

511
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: a couple even a couple of years, that wasn't so

512
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: much of a consideration. I think it's becoming much much

513
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: more front of mind. It's affecting where people can and

514
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: want to live, which affects where people can set up

515
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 2: big businesses. And you know, we've decided as a country

516
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 2: for the most part, that we want people in the

517
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: office as opposed to working from home. That makes it

518
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: difficult to just head wherever you want ahead and set

519
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: up your life. So I think, you know, places like

520
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: Melbourne is sprawling right out. I mean, Melbourne's an enormous city,

521
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 2: as is Sydney. I mean, if you put a Melbourne

522
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: or a Sydney in the USA, it would be the

523
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: third biggest city in the country over there by population.

524
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: And yet over there those big cities they all kind

525
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 2: of go up. We're going out, So it affects everything.

526
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: I think insurance is a massive one.

527
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: Because without if the insurance companies go under. That was

528
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: a big part of it was in two thousand and

529
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: eight when everything fell apart, was aig I think, because

530
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: if an insurance company goes under, how does that affect

531
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: the economy.

532
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, all the insurance companies get their reinsurance from

533
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: bigger global insurers. So all of a sudden, if the

534
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: maths aren't mathsing, people start pulling out, and all of

535
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: a sudden you're left with one or two insurance companies

536
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: that start jacking out their prices. I mean, insurance is

537
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: a price on risk. If we're deciding that these sorts

538
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: of things are more risky, then the price goes up.

539
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: We can't afford it. All of a sudden, only a

540
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 2: few people can have the luxury of being insured. Yeah,

541
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: the flow on effect are enormous.

542
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that the moral question of climate action

543
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: or social policy even isn't the one that gets the

544
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: thing done. It's it's the money, and it's sad, but

545
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: a part of it had to come to grips with

546
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: that going. Look, if it's money, it's money. Okay, if

547
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: you've decided that helping this twelve year old boy by

548
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: providing in some social services now, so don't have to

549
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: pay hundreds of thousands dollars a year to keep him

550
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: castrated once he's eighteen until he's fifty. Great. Yeah, not

551
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: because it's the right thing to do, because it saves

552
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: your money.

553
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: Later on, having unconscious costs you a lot of money.

554
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: You know, you want to get rid of that consciences.

555
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: Come on, man, you're right though, it's a calculation. You've

556
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: got to figure all that sort of stuff out, like

557
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: business is always evolving and changing and the pricing of

558
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: risk is constant.

559
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: We just need to take a quick break from Chris

560
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: Kohler back in a moment in the election campaign that

561
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: we're in right now. What I love is that for

562
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: all the where's the details of Peter Dunton, I've got

563
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: to admire a man who's so less than a year

564
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: later is bold facingly go, oh, the details will come

565
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: on the nuclear THN thing. Yeah, the details will come.

566
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: What the because the money is a coward If anybody

567
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: wants to know what's happening, and look at what massive

568
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: black rock and shit like that, what are they doing

569
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: with their cash? Where are they pulling it? From and

570
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: we're now putting it to Money does not like uncertainty.

571
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: Money doesn't like long term risk. When someone like the

572
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: coalition here in Australia is pitching nuclear as a long

573
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: term energy option, how do we even assess that? How

574
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: do we get our brains around Is this a good idea?

575
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: What the price of energy will do for Australia manufacturing

576
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: in forty years when it's ready.

577
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: It's so hard to put that onto people without any

578
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: realistic pricing strategy. I mean, how can you assess it.

579
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: We're talking so much money over such a long period

580
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: of time, and I think they've kind of gotten the

581
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 2: hang of the fact that that's too far in the distance.

582
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: Now they're talking about redirecting gas and keeping twenty percent

583
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 2: of it here in Australia, all that sort of stuff,

584
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: and they're talking about fuel and they're sort of the

585
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 2: here and now. I mean, I think that was a

586
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: very interesting moment of policy. Everybody sort of knew that

587
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: energy prices are a big deal, and the Dutton shadow

588
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: Cabinet clearly decided we need something big here, something eye catching. Look,

589
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: it was just too light on the details, where we

590
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: don't know how much it's going to cost and that's

591
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: such a big part of it. Look, I think the

592
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: real stuff to look for when you're looking at a

593
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: campaign an election campaign is not the big stuff, because

594
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: as you say, where's the detail, I think the small

595
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: stuff is where you should be looking things. Like when

596
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: I was in the budget, one of the things that

597
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: caught my eye and I thought was very interesting was

598
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: the banning of these bogus non compete clauses that are

599
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: in apparently three million Australians contracts. You know, if you're

600
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: a hairdresser, it might say you're not allowed to work

601
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: for a competitor for six months after you leave here,

602
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: regardless of the circumstances within five kilometers. Or if you're

603
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 2: a tradee or if you.

604
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: Mate, if you're a fitness instructor, if you're working as

605
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: a PTT precise you know the watching MC call it

606
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: twenty four right down the road. You can't then go

607
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and work at the other. If you work at the

608
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: red one, you can't go work at the blue one.

609
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: Yes, So this sort of stuff has led into every

610
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: part of the economy, it would seem for no good reason.

611
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: We're talking cleaners who are not allowed to go and

612
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: clean a building across the road for fear of some

613
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: vague notion of legal action. Of course, it's not really

614
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: able to be pursued. But the problem is people don't

615
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: have the resources to take it to an employment lawyer.

616
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: They just look at it and go, okay, I'm not

617
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: allowed to do it. So Jim Charmers came through and

618
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: he does a tour of the press gallery and we

619
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: kind of when he came to us, we said, so,

620
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: what's the deal with this noncompete thing? And he says, well,

621
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: we got the Productivity Commission to look into this, and

622
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: they said that the highest yield, lowest impact way to

623
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: get wages moving is to get rid of all this

624
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: crap that is stopping people from getting a five percent

625
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: pay increase by going across the road. It's awful because

626
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: it stops you from having to like somebody goes, hey,

627
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: I can get a better job. I can get more

628
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: money at this other place, and then you, if you

629
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: have this non compete, can go no, you can't. Aha,

630
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: instead of stay here, I'll make your life better, I'll

631
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: pay you more, which is supposed to be if you're

632
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: a desirable employee for the other person, you should be

633
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: getting as much money as you can. These are the

634
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: little things I think that make a lot of sense.

635
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: And I mean, obviously the Coalition has some smaller pieces

636
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: of policy that are interesting and worth looking at as well,

637
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: whether it's housing policies or if it's the fuel tax

638
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: X side stuff. But I reckon, if possible, people should

639
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: be looking at the lower level, you know, stop halfway

640
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: and look at what they've actually laid out on the table.

641
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: As for other pieces of policy, I like that the

642
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: Coalition is going to put aside a few billion dollars

643
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: for urgent infrastructure lower to the ground stuff water sewage.

644
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: That's going to hopefully help some of these new places

645
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: that we want to live be more habitable. I suppose I.

646
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: Love that you said habitable rather than habitable. I put

647
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: the embasis on a different salaval there. It's perfect. If

648
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: a suit didn't show you, this is how you become

649
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: a professional professional journalist. There is an addiction I discovered yesterday.

650
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: I say the word I say the word drawing with

651
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: two hours.

652
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: I think that's it was like it's a w ring.

653
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: I was drawing. No, that's okay, though. The thing is

654
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: when I said a bitable just then I knew it

655
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: was coming in my sentence and I was like, oh shit,

656
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: we can't stop.

657
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: Stop it's already.

658
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: And then I tried to cruise past and you saw it.

659
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 2: It was beautiful. It was beautiful.

660
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: But I know the feeling because having been a broadcaster

661
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah, your brain has to be

662
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: twenty seconds ahead and the mouth stuff. Those messages have

663
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: already been sent. You can't stop. You can't stop them

664
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: once they're going.

665
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: It's a perfect way.

666
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: It's true though, You're like, it's going to come out

667
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: and I'm going to have to come. Then I've got

668
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: thirty more seconds before the news. Okay, I'm an handle this.

669
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: It's such an awful feeling, a grim feeling, and then

670
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: it comes out and there's this pause where you got Yep,

671
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: it did it, It happened, Okay, keeping it on going now.

672
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, humanizes you. I think it humanizes you. What's something

673
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: that we really need to understand going into the selection

674
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: about how our economy works.

675
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: I think our economy is changing faster than we give

676
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: it credit for. We have been an economy that has

677
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: gotten a lot of prosperity out of digging stuff out

678
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: of the ground and selling it to China more specifically

679
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: than anywhere else in the world. BHP is no longer

680
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: our biggest company.

681
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: CBA is the one that was a mining company. The

682
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: other one was probably their bank, but is a bank

683
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: exactly right.

684
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: So you know, the business of selling rocks to China

685
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: is now not necessarily as big as the business is

686
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: selling debt to all of us in Australia.

687
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: So it's tapping go fees man, yeah.

688
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: Man, yeah. But also like it's interest we pay on

689
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: our debts, it's the fees that they charge us, which god,

690
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: there's a long list of fees. Like when we rock

691
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: up to get a mortgage, we're so happy that they're

692
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: going to give us one what we ignore the fact

693
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: that we've just paid six hundred bucks for them to

694
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: look at the mortgage application, four hundred bucks a year

695
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: to have the mortgage, another few bucks here and there

696
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: just to have an offset account. They hit you every

697
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: single time. I mean not just CBA, of course, this

698
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: is banking in Australia. But the business of banking is

699
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: incredibly rich now. I mean as far as a sector,

700
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 2: it's huge and growing all the time. Our banks are

701
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: some of the most valuable according to their market capitalization

702
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: in the world. So Australian economy is about financial services

703
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: to Australians because we're not really like our bank service

704
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: Australians for the most part, and they're getting huge, like

705
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: their share prices have gone berserk in the last couple

706
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: of years.

707
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: If a bank is more valuable than our previously most

708
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: valuable company, which was selling raw materials and commodities by

709
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: the trainload to other countries, that is a lot of fees.

710
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: It is. It's a lot of It is an intimidate.

711
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean you know.

712
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: Sorry, it's because you use your own eyebrow to put

713
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: the punchlines on your videos and then when I see

714
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: it live, it destroys Like I see the guy, he's

715
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: in there, the horrible easel man, and affably get a

716
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: couple extra things out of them.

717
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: Guys, is there a way? Is there maybe just an

718
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: extra ten bucks a month? They're not going to notice.

719
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: It comes back to the conversation you're having, what's the

720
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: price of a gigabyte on the mobile phone? Surely it's

721
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: just what is the price of having one formula on

722
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: this selling a spreadsheet calculate with another formula on that

723
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: selling a spreadsheet apparently six hundred dollars a year.

724
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't give it back to you if your

725
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: application is not successful. By the way, that's theirs now

726
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: keeps these mine six hundred dollars.

727
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: It's not like someone's hour of the day. They're running

728
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: it through a machine that spits out the top two percent. Yeah,

729
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: these no problem. It's probably the next ten percent. I'm

730
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: probably gonna have someone look over this, but they won't

731
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: look very long and then the rest is just sorry,

732
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: you get a formula, that's right.

733
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: I mean. And we've got big four banks, four big

734
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: banks in Australia. They all charge basically the same like

735
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: it's it's you know, conspicuous.

736
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: If you're going to disrupt the banking sector, how would

737
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: you do it.

738
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: I would try to get as many people as possible

739
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: to bank elsewhere, smaller banks. We've got ninety eight ish

740
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: lenders in Australia and yet three quarters of the market

741
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,959
Speaker 2: used four of them. I like that. We have lots

742
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: of lenders and they are really scrappy at times. They

743
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: try to offer lower interest rates and be free periods.

744
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think there should be there should

745
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: be a lot more due diligence encouraged out there for

746
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: people to sit down and kind of have a go

747
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: at it, because you know, we're kind of at sea here,

748
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 2: like we get told, yeah, here are your bank options.

749
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: But in reality we've got a wide world of banking.

750
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: This is a very interconnected world. You could have a

751
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: bank off shore if you wanted to. You could have

752
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: any number of smaller lenders that you may never have

753
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: heard of until you sit down and start researching some

754
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 2: of the better fees and some of the lower interest

755
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 2: rates for deposits. Yeah. I mean that to me would

756
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: be a big one. We all were kind of semi

757
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: risk averse in Australias. We tend to keep our money

758
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: in the bank as well. I mean, if there was

759
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: an opportunity for people to start getting a bit more

760
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 2: okay with the idea of index funds and low risk

761
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: stock investments, I think that'd be probably for the best too.

762
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: Your half yearly hard day, hard day. Put in your

763
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: half yearly hard day, and it's all.

764
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: Day, by the way, like morning till night. You're sitting

765
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: there looking at it, but it pays your money, Like

766
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: that might be a solid amount of money if you

767
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: can just sit there and do it.

768
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: You talked about the a triple C. There was a

769
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: report handed down about what supermarkets are doing with their pricing. Yeah,

770
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: Labor going to the election saying they're going to bring

771
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: in some sort of UK style law. I don't know, man,

772
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: These supermarket's pretty powerful. Like if someone going to end

773
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: up with a cabbage in their bed, Like, what's going

774
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: to happen? Sorry, half a cobage, half a cabbage and

775
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: a bed.

776
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 2: Its might a source all over it. Ye, I don't that.

777
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: It was a really good report. It was four hundred

778
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: and forty one pages and read the whole thing. But

779
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: I look through a lot of it and it did

780
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: a beautiful job of detailing the problems that we have

781
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: in Australia when it comes to our two big supermarkets.

782
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: They just don't compete that much. It had a lot

783
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: of solutions. The big solution though, is to try to

784
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: get another aldi in the mix. You know, we've had

785
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: little calf Land from overseas coming in and sniffing around

786
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: in Australia, but they've decided not to hang around. If

787
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: you're asking the government, how are we really going to

788
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: fix this supermarket issue? The question really is what kind

789
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: of Carriac. Are we dangling to get more big supermarkets

790
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: to sort of come in and break it up, because

791
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: it's got to be a market lead solution. You can't

792
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: just come down hard on anyone who's trying to do

793
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: what two big companies at the top do, which is

794
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: dominate the market. I mean they're sharing somewhere around sixty

795
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: eight seventy percent of the whole grocery market share between them.

796
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: You know, they've done it. They've kind of done it.

797
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: You know, like we're going to have to come in

798
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: and break them up. I don't really want to do that.

799
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: Just need somebody who's going to steal their market share

800
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: away from them the way that good businesses do.

801
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: Have we ever broken up stuff in Australia, We have not.

802
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: We don't have those laws. They have them in the US.

803
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 2: They brought them in to break up Standard Oil, which

804
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: was the Rockefeller you know, own ninety percent of the

805
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: oil market and they came in and said we don't

806
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: like this anymore, and they broke it up. And so

807
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: they've got those laws in their books. They would never

808
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: use them now.

809
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: They did the same with the Telcoe. They did it

810
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: with AT and t H do they yeah.

811
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Okay, there you go broke it apart. Yeah, so,

812
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: once you get too big in the US, there is

813
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: that big stick. In Australia. There's been a few people

814
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: who've talked about bringing it in. There's not much political

815
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: will to do that. I mean, I think you probably

816
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: don't need to in Australia. You just need to encourage

817
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: more competition.

818
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: Because the flow on effect to the pante but also

819
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: to the farmer and the providers and the transport sector.

820
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: Speaking of fees, well, yeah, listen to how some of

821
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: these providers are being charged, Like they bought one hundred

822
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: thousand kilos of beetroots off me. But you know, now

823
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm getting stung for this fee to get it. It's

824
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: like bananas. They can't get out of.

825
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 2: It, that's right. It's kind of heartbreaking. Look, I think

826
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: the supermarkets defense is always that this isn't that good

827
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: of a business. You guys, our profit margins a right

828
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: like two and a half two point three percent, and

829
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: we're like, oh okay, what.

830
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: Are their profits?

831
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: Oh billions? Yeah, well yeah, you know that's.

832
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: Done it again.

833
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: Hey, follow up questions come on, come on, I mean,

834
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: like two and a bit percent I don't know. Look,

835
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: the problem with that is all their costs that they've

836
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,479
Speaker 2: piled into their own plenty of businesses. They're all offer

837
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: you twenty eight like twenty five twenty eight thousand different

838
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: things you can buy at of Cole's or a woolies

839
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: at Aldi, there's eighteen hundred different things you can buy,

840
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 2: which is a cheaper way to run a business, and

841
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: so their prices are lower. So it doesn't really matter

842
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: what their margin is. It just that we've been kind

843
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 2: of these two have competed in this very specific way

844
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: about doing each other and maybe the way that we

845
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: didn't specifically ask for. Yeah, you really need eight different

846
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: types of raspberry jam. I don't know when I used to.

847
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: When I lived in America, I did my groceries at

848
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: a place called Trader Joe's, which has I'm going to

849
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: get corn ships there they are. That's the one packet

850
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: in the one size. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, And that

851
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: was it. That was a whole shop. It was excellent.

852
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't fuck around in and out in five

853
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: minutes totally. I mean, that's it. The problem, of course,

854
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: is that having all those different types of options means

855
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: that we have this economy of small businesses that can

856
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: get their products into the supermarket, whereas they're not getting

857
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: anywhere near an Aldie or a Trader Joe's. So you

858
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: end up having this trade off situation. But if all

859
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 2: we're interested in is the cost of living and getting

860
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 2: our grocery shopping down, then choice is expensive. Having a big,

861
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: beautiful supermarket is expensive. Having a fresh sushi bar in

862
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: the corner that's expensive. Like you just look at the

863
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: way Aldi is halftime. It feels like they're not even

864
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: turning their lights on in half the shop, and you're like, yeah, sweet,

865
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: it's cheaper.

866
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: And I got a chainsaw.

867
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, just so quietly, I'm walking out of here with

868
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: a chainsaw.

869
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: You guys, hey, you never believe it. You know that

870
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: bump you know, you know the guest bed you wanted

871
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: to blow up? Yess, he's got an air compressing out.

872
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: This guy, didn't I send you for eggs? Yeah, I

873
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: can't find eggs. There are no eggs.

874
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: There are air compresses though, Like you joke, I nearly

875
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: bought a Mita saw the other day at Aldi, and

876
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 2: I had to be pulled away from it by my wife.

877
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: Your handymoon, no use for it, but I was like,

878
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: look at this thing. Maybe I'll get into making decks

879
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 2: or something. Nah.

880
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: I love that.

881
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: She came over very hard on me. She was like,

882
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: well you back to business.

883
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: When it comes to how we are. You know, as

884
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned before, we're we're a nation of quarrymen and

885
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: house flippers. That's how we make our money. That's pretty

886
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: much what we do. And we buy a lot of

887
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: stuff from overseas. That's how we have this iPad, these

888
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: clothes that everything I'm wearing was made overseas. Everything in

889
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: this room was made overseas. So we have a trade

890
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: deficit with lots of countries. How does that play into

891
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: what's happening with America at the moment? And what can

892
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: either of our parties do anything, if at all, about

893
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: what's coming?

894
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: They can't really. Either Peter Dutton or Anthony Albanezy has

895
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: the ability to call up Donald Trump and say hey, man,

896
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: don't do this, and he'll be like, yeah, sweet, okay,

897
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like that's likely. He's heading down this path.

898
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: He wanted to do it, probably during COVID, and then

899
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: COVID happened and then he couldn't. So now he's got

900
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: this second term, he's gone hard at tariff's. The Australian

901
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 2: government keeps saying, what's going to happen here is the

902
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: indirect hit to Australia because really we're talking about you know,

903
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: steel an aluminium as an exported item to the US. Well,

904
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: that's going to cover a hit and that sucks for

905
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: people who work in that industry. But relatively it's a

906
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: small part of our economy. Meat that's another painful one.

907
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: But you know, we're not Canada, We're not Mexico or China.

908
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: This is going to be small. So what's going to

909
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: happen really is that it's going to be tariff's at

910
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: twenty paces all over the world. The global trade is

911
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: going to slow down as a result. China's economy is

912
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,479
Speaker 2: probably going to weaken a little. And as I said,

913
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: we do quite a lot of trade, which I think

914
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: they're right. It's the indirect impact. It's this thing where

915
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, we now know what he meant by making

916
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: America great again is try to undo fifty to eighty

917
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: years worth of globalization. I didn't know it when he

918
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: first started saying it. I kind of am like, oh wow,

919
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 2: so that's what you meant you're going to magic up

920
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: the local manufacturing industry. Again, if we had have known,

921
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean, the market is now and has this year

922
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 2: been pricing that in and it's all over the place.

923
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, we just didn't quite know what it was

924
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: that he meant, and now we're kind of figuring it out,

925
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: I think.

926
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: But is he also interested in letting those companies that

927
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: have offshore their manufacturing. Is he going to say, well,

928
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: you used to build televisions or washing machines here, and

929
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: your plant is now a housing estate. Yeah, here's four

930
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: billion dollars to build a new one.

931
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. I mean, the big car manufacturers in

932
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: the States have copped a huge hit lately because they're

933
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: basically assembling cars from parts that they're getting from overseas.

934
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: So for GM, they're getting smashed on the market. At

935
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 2: the moment, their valuations have tumbled. You would think that

936
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: Donald Trump knew that that was going to happen, and

937
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: these companies were probably briefed and they knew, and they

938
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: probably argued their case. It doesn't seem like there's much

939
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: that's going to slow this down anymore. I mean, maybe

940
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: some things. It seems like Donald Trump is focused on

941
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: getting the price of oil down. That might be a

942
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: calculation that he's making with Russia with Opek, you know

943
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like so he's yeah, that could be

944
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: part of the offsetting factor. Because people a tariffs are

945
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 2: attack on people, your local people. You have to pay

946
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: the taxes if you want to buy something, they get

947
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: passed directly onto you. So people are going to turn

948
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 2: around and go, hey, this is shit. I don't like this,

949
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 2: And maybe down the track that the plan is to say, well,

950
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: I've brought down the barrel price of oil quite a lot.

951
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Maybe that's it. I mean, that's speculation. Everything

952
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: speculation at the moment.

953
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: But now if I want to get the medicine for

954
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: my kid seven hundred dollars because it comes from Switzerland.

955
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I mean, you know, he's certainly breaking a

956
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: lot of eggs to make these on once he wants

957
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: to make Hey.

958
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: There's an egg shortage.

959
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's that, I mean, which is a fascinating

960
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,959
Speaker 2: thing because we're eating so many more eggs. I saw

961
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: this piece of data that showed that our egg consumption

962
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: has gone up, So this egg shortage hurts way more

963
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: than it used to. Usha but yeah, I don't know,

964
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: it's a killer like that, that thing that is the

965
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: big one. I mean, we're doing pretty well in our

966
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: Australian economy now as opposed to a year or two ago,

967
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: but that that's a big scary at the moment.

968
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: Kind of have one final question that's around. We were saying, like,

969
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: coming into this selection, there's a lot of stuff. These

970
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: two guys man leaders of these big parties aren't really

971
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: talking about that night that you're at the budget with

972
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: your big four hundred pages. They said they brought in

973
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: a deficit. Now, I saw some data the other day

974
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: that equated something twenty four billion dollars that if you

975
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: added up the tax not collected off, negative gearing, tax

976
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: breaks to the super duper duper wealthy, and the diesel

977
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: fuel ex pretty much around about twenty four billion. And

978
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: so we're in a deficit because we've decided to be.

979
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: And that makes my quite hurt.

980
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, you can look a lot of people take

981
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: the numbers and then rearrange them in lots of ways.

982
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: You just got to think hoodwinked by No, No, No, I

983
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: don't think so. I think that's probably accurate. It's just

984
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: about is there any political will from either side. I mean,

985
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: we're going to vote them in either side if we

986
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 2: start mucking around with negative gearing. I mean, you could

987
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: argue that a massive thing to do in Australia would

988
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: be to introduce an inheritance tax of some description. We

989
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: don't have one in Australia and globally that's kind of unique,

990
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: especially considering how much wealth is about to be passed

991
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: from the boomer generation to either X or millennials. But

992
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: that money, whether it's super or housing, provided it's the

993
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: primary place of residence, is going to be going straight through,

994
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: which is sort of great for a lot of the

995
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 2: people whose parents have done well. It's not so great

996
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: your parents haven't done well, but you could be earning

997
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 2: a lot of tax like that. You could be coming

998
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: down hard on big businesses or billionaires, lots of different things.

999
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: But in the end, these parties have to win elections

1000
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: and they have to court certain types of votes, and

1001
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: they've clearly done the maths that ten years worth of

1002
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 2: deficits is more palatable than mucking around too much with

1003
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: the tax system.

1004
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: When it comes to the inheritance tax. Both my parents

1005
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: are immigrants, my wife's parents are immigrants, and like a

1006
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: lot of Australia most a lot of people have arrived

1007
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: here in the last thirty forty years. There's going to

1008
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: be a point where those people outnumber everybody else. And

1009
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: it might be like, hey, you guys have had time

1010
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: in the market. All you really did was buy a

1011
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: house in Epping when it was a country town, and

1012
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: then you just sold it for eight million dollars. I know,

1013
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: I'm not saying redistribution, that's a kind of a bit

1014
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: of a pinko word. But have we shared about it.

1015
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: Look, it's a it's a big area. That's a lot

1016
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: of money. We're talking trillions. I mean the housing market,

1017
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: the Australian residential housing. I could work about eleven trillion

1018
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: dollars superannuation, four point two trillion dollars commercial real estate

1019
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: roughly too. I mean, that is such a huge amount

1020
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: of money to be not touching on the way through.

1021
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: When I say that, I say people passing away and

1022
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: there's an inheritance involved. Yeah, it just feels like that's

1023
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: got to be a conversation at some point. Politically suicide

1024
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: to bring it up rather before an election, you know,

1025
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen we were talking about negative gearing, and that

1026
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: did not go well, and that was one tweak. Think

1027
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: about something as huge as an inheritance.

1028
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: Tax, We're going to have to have that conversation sometimes

1029
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: seems like it seems like it's coming at some point.

1030
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: That and the insurance one. Yeah, one hard day every

1031
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: half a year.

1032
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll sit down.

1033
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: So this one we'll talk about insurance, the next one

1034
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: we'll talk about inherance tax, and then we'll get to

1035
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: our home line.

1036
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe that's right. Maybe we could even have

1037
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 2: This is going to sound weird, Maybe it could be fun,

1038
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: like who's ripping me off?

1039
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: And?

1040
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 2: Who am I going to squash out of my life?

1041
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 1: You just invented a game shot? Who's ripping me off?

1042
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: With Chris Color? With you?

1043
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: I'd only do it if you're on it?

1044
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: Are you fucking kidding? I will go upstairs and petch it.

1045
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: We're in the building right now. Let's go upstairs and

1046
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: pitch it. Our first concessant. Here is Adam. Here's his

1047
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: phone bill. Let's have a look going through here. There's

1048
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: a fee.

1049
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: Do everything you off? What do you want to do

1050
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: about it? Ignorant? Or do something? I want to do something?

1051
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 2: Bang all right, he's your half day.

1052
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 1: That's and you know what, and then then you get

1053
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: the sponsors involved, because then you get the alternative. That's

1054
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: when you get your super loopho show up instead of

1055
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: your NBN to and then mate, it writes, it pays

1056
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: for itself. No network will say no, it's on.

1057
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: We need to do this more more chats about this

1058
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 2: because now we're getting all these great businesses.

1059
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: I don't understand. Get canon Brooks on the phone.

1060
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: I've got a thing for him. Only got his number,

1061
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: Mike's number. That's Mike canon Brooks, one of the billionaires.

1062
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 1: I just dropped a name.

1063
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: You know. Lennard Cohen once told me, if you're going

1064
00:48:53,440 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: to drop a name, drop a big one. No, it's

1065
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: been a pleasure.

1066
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: That was Chris Kohler. His new book, How They Get

1067
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: You Sneaky Everyday Economics and Smart Ways to Hold into

1068
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: Your Money is out right now. If you haven't already

1069
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 1: followed him on the Instagram and the TikTok, just get

1070
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: on there with you. He's so good. He's very good.

1071
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate you being here.

1072
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: Please check the show notes. That's where you can get

1073
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: the YouTube link for the story Club shows. There's new

1074
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: stories going up. If you look for something interesting to

1075
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: watch over the break, you know you can check these

1076
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: out there twelve to fifteen minutes long, true Australian story

1077
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: from a great Australian storyteller. You know these people there,

1078
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: they our household names. We get big names of story Club.

1079
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: It's pretty fun. You can get the link in the

1080
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: show notes. That's where you can also grab a copy

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Speaker 1: of my first and second books, which are out right now.

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Speaker 1: If you like this episode, please share it and like

1083
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: it and comment and follow and subscribe and rate and

1084
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: do all those other things. And you know what, where

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00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: are you listening to this? Take my photo of where

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Speaker 1: you're listening right now? It to me. Send out her

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Speaker 1: email at gmail dot Calum'm.

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Speaker 2: Always fascinated to see what you're listening.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being a part of it. I'll see it Monday.