Speaker 1: You have had a very big week.
Speaker 2: I mean normally I would say you're on the cover
Speaker 2: of Stella. What gets bigger than that? But you and
Speaker 2: your husband have some baby news.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're pregnant, which is it was a very big shock.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Stella Podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your.
Speaker 2: Host, and every week I sit down with some of
Speaker 2: the biggest names in the country because when Australia's celebrities
Speaker 2: are ready to talk, they come to something to talk about.
Speaker 2: Laura Henshaw has struck a chord with many women by
Speaker 2: being honest about her uncertainty about becoming a parent. Just
Speaker 2: last year, she released a podcast mini series documenting her
Speaker 2: reservations about having a baby, not only the physical toll
Speaker 2: it would take, but the impact it might have on
Speaker 2: her sense of identity, her ambition, and her career. So
Speaker 2: when Laura found herself unexpectedly pregnant with her first child,
Speaker 2: as she says, a complete shock.
Speaker 1: Today, for the first.
Speaker 2: Time since announcing the news, Laura opens up about what
Speaker 2: it was like to see that positive pregnancy test, and,
Speaker 2: in her characteristically candid fashion, shares why she and her
Speaker 2: husband were so surprised, and also admits to her fear
Speaker 2: that going public with her happy news this week could
Speaker 2: be letting some people down. We also unpack that recent
Speaker 2: headline making response to podcaster Chris Griffin, whose very retro
Speaker 2: viewes on gender roles left her so concerned she felt
Speaker 2: she had no choice but to speak up, sparking a
Speaker 2: national conversation about the rise of the manisphere and why
Speaker 2: trends such as tradwives and stay at home girlfriends on
Speaker 2: TikTok are so dangerous. Laura Henshaw, welcome to the Stellar podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: It's lovely to see you. You have had a very
Speaker 1: big week.
Speaker 2: I mean, normally I would say you're on the cover
Speaker 2: of Stella. What gets bigger than that? But you and
Speaker 2: your husband have somews we do.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you say we are pregnant or
Speaker 3: I'm pregnant, I'm still yeah.
Speaker 4: I think that we all tend to say we.
Speaker 1: We always think before it happens.
Speaker 4: I'll never be one of those people that says we.
Speaker 4: And then you are so welcome to the first of
Speaker 4: many things.
Speaker 2: That you probably swore you'd never do when you became
Speaker 2: a parent, and you're going to find yourself doing yes.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, we're pregnant, which is it was such was
Speaker 3: it was a very big shock. I had been on
Speaker 3: a journey last year. I actually did a podcast series
Speaker 3: about it because I just I was feeling so overwhelmed
Speaker 3: by the thought of having children. I had thought by
Speaker 3: the time I turned thirty. I don't know why, but
Speaker 3: that was the age that I had in my head.
Speaker 3: And I know a lot of my friends were kind
Speaker 3: of similar that by the time I'm thirty, I'll want
Speaker 3: to have children, like almost this light bulb or something
Speaker 3: switch will go off in my head and I'll film
Speaker 3: maternal and I'll know that I want kids. And I
Speaker 3: got to thirty, and it was actually for me, between
Speaker 3: kind of thirty and thirty two, I actually felt the opposite.
Speaker 3: The closer I got to the age that I thought
Speaker 3: I should be having kids, the more that I kind
Speaker 3: of was questioning the fact that actually, maybe I don't
Speaker 3: know if I want to have kids, and I wanted
Speaker 3: to talk about it. Last year. I just I felt
Speaker 3: like so many of my friends they felt and with
Speaker 3: Steph and Steph's obviously been on this wonderful podcast as well,
Speaker 3: my business partner and best friend at kick. She's really
Speaker 3: maternal and has always wanted to have kids. And I
Speaker 3: used to think, like, well, what's wrong with me? Why
Speaker 3: did you know Steph wants to have kids? And I've
Speaker 3: got other friends that just knew that they wanted to
Speaker 3: have them, and for me, it wasn't like that. And
Speaker 3: I had kind of all of these fears that I
Speaker 3: was worried that I was going to lose myself, I
Speaker 3: was going to lose my career, and that I would
Speaker 3: really struggle. And so I went on this journey last
Speaker 3: year to work through like is this something that I
Speaker 3: want to do, and then also of course for my
Speaker 3: husband as well, and we came out at the end
Speaker 3: of it and decided that we did want to have children,
Speaker 3: but we weren't one hundred percent sure when, but also
Speaker 3: we were not ready kind of last year we did
Speaker 3: the miniseries in May, when I kind of did the
Speaker 3: exploration journey, And I think with a big decision like
Speaker 3: this as well, you never I kind of this is
Speaker 3: probably a shocking thing to relate it to or compare
Speaker 3: it to, but I feel like it's kind of like
Speaker 3: a breakup. You're never one hundred percent sure if you
Speaker 3: should break up with someone or not right. Well, I
Speaker 3: don't know anyone unless something really, really bad has happened.
Speaker 3: But in a serious relationship, it's a big, serious decision.
Speaker 3: It's like people that I know that have moved overseas,
Speaker 3: they always have this questionable you know, am I doing
Speaker 3: the right thing? And I kind of felt like this
Speaker 3: for this. Even though I'd gone through the journey and
Speaker 3: I'd thought, no, we do want to have them, I
Speaker 3: still have this fear in the back of my mind
Speaker 3: that well, what if when we do feel pregnant, if
Speaker 3: we have the privilege of being able to that. I
Speaker 3: don't want to be pregnant and I'm not happy. And
Speaker 3: so we had planned to start trying later this year.
Speaker 3: I was actually booked in for a laproscopy I think
Speaker 3: that's how you say it, in the middle of May.
Speaker 3: So my plan was to kind of do the I
Speaker 3: was booked in to do the London Marathon, then have
Speaker 3: a laproscopy, and then after that start thinking about kids
Speaker 3: I have had. And sorry, this is probably a bit
Speaker 3: too TMI, but my husband and I and for my
Speaker 3: whole and this is not advice for anyone, you should
Speaker 3: not do this, but I have been having unprotected sex
Speaker 3: for a very long time, and I've never had a
Speaker 3: pregnancy scare for ten years, and so I had spoken
Speaker 3: to a gynecologist about it and she had said, look,
Speaker 3: I also think I have endometriosis. So she's like, look,
Speaker 3: we can do a laproscopy. We'll go in and have
Speaker 3: a look for endo, and then also just see what's
Speaker 3: going on, because if you have had unprotected sex in
Speaker 3: your population period for that long, there might be something
Speaker 3: you know, we don't know. So I had had that
Speaker 3: booked in. I was planning training for the marathon, and
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, I missed. My period has
Speaker 3: always been very regular, and I think that's as well.
Speaker 3: I've never had a pregnancy scare in my life because
Speaker 3: it comes, you know, the kind of I have a
Speaker 3: twenty seven to twenty eight day cycle, so it's always come,
Speaker 3: and I get quite bad period pain, and I've been
Speaker 3: doing all these different things to try and navigate the
Speaker 3: pain and how to reduce it. And I got I
Speaker 3: had a little bit of blood, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: no pain, I have cured period pain, which I had
Speaker 3: not not. But I was like, oh, this stuff mu's
Speaker 3: been working anyway. And then I ended up the next
Speaker 3: then nothing else kind of came and I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe I also used to have a really heavy period,
Speaker 3: so maybe I've also fixed that, which obviously not. And
Speaker 3: so we did a pregnancy test the next day. My
Speaker 3: husband was so funny. He was like, Laura, I think
Speaker 3: you're pregnant. And I was like, we can't be pregnant.
Speaker 3: Like we literally had had sex once the month before.
Speaker 3: I was like, it was a morning quickie, like it
Speaker 3: was very sorry ta am I it was. So I
Speaker 3: was like, there's no way, no way. And we did
Speaker 3: the test and it my husband actually was still in
Speaker 3: the shower because I was like, honey, I'm not pregnant.
Speaker 3: There's you know, turn the test around and I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, we're pregnant. I'm pregnant. And it was
Speaker 3: such a shock, and it definitely wasn't one of those
Speaker 3: I'd seen so many videos on Instagram where people have
Speaker 3: found out they're pregnant and they you know, are crying
Speaker 3: and their partners crying and they're really happy. And it
Speaker 3: wasn't in any way that I wasn't grateful, I wasn't happy.
Speaker 3: I was just in complete shock. So I actually didn't
Speaker 3: get emotional at all. I think until I told Steph
Speaker 3: about five days later, and her reaction was so beautiful.
Speaker 3: She was sobbing, and it made me. Then I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: it kind of hit me that you know it's happening,
Speaker 3: and I actually was. I was grateful. I feel really
Speaker 3: happy because that was yeah, as I said, kind of
Speaker 3: a fear that I had, I didn't know how I
Speaker 3: would feel, But I do feel really happy.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine what a surprise it was, because
Speaker 2: every component that you've said there, there was really no
Speaker 2: reason that you would have thought. You're thinking, I've been
Speaker 2: solving my period.
Speaker 4: Pain and solving the heavy periods.
Speaker 2: You were preparing for a marathon, the London Marathon. Now
Speaker 2: you're obviously preparing for a marathon of a whole other kind. Laura,
Speaker 2: you are entering your second trimester as we speak. How
Speaker 2: are you feeling now you've had some weeks for you
Speaker 2: and your husband to process it.
Speaker 3: Oh, it feels it feels really exciting now. The first
Speaker 3: trimester for me, I actually had about six weeks where
Speaker 3: I felt really depressed and it was I was talking
Speaker 3: to I can laugh about it, and now obviously feeling
Speaker 3: depression is it's not something that's funny at all. But
Speaker 3: I had a catch up with Mish from Shameless, and
Speaker 3: she was actually about to have her baby the next day. Now,
Speaker 3: obviously we both were not drinking alcohol. We're in a
Speaker 3: wineber and I said to her, Oh, did you feel
Speaker 3: so depressed in the first trimester, Like is that and
Speaker 3: she just looked. I said, I've just I felt so
Speaker 3: down and must be normal though, and she just looked
Speaker 3: at me and she was like no. And then it
Speaker 3: was nice like she didn't want to be she didn't
Speaker 3: want to lie to me, of course, but I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: that's interesting. I thought everyone kind of felt that way.
Speaker 3: But I do think that thinking that everyone felt that
Speaker 3: way was helpful in the time. And I just felt
Speaker 3: really not like myself. I had no motivation to do anything,
Speaker 3: even it sounds so ridiculous, but even to charge my phone,
Speaker 3: Like I just was like, I had no motivation. No,
Speaker 3: I didn't exercise. The only thing that was kind of
Speaker 3: getting me through that time was going to work or
Speaker 3: if I found I was really busy in the day,
Speaker 3: it would take my mind off it. And then I
Speaker 3: just felt really kind of numb for the rest of
Speaker 3: the time, which for me is someone who usually feels
Speaker 3: quite happy and motivated. Was quite confronting. But what I
Speaker 3: was very grateful for was that I in my mind
Speaker 3: it was separated from being pregnant, so it didn't feel
Speaker 3: like I'm depressed because I'm pregnant. It was like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm maybe this is obviously just the crazy hormone increase
Speaker 3: that you've never like, if you haven't been pregnant, you
Speaker 3: will never have gone through before. And I'm very grateful
Speaker 3: that that's now passed. And I think the other thing
Speaker 3: that really surprised me is the anxiety around if the
Speaker 3: child is okay. Because in the first trimester you have
Speaker 3: a few scans. It's amazing, Like in talking to my
Speaker 3: mom about when she had me and how different I
Speaker 3: think she said she had one scan for her entire pregnancy,
Speaker 3: but we're so lucky now there's so many. But you
Speaker 3: can't feel the baby until I'm not sure, maybe twenty
Speaker 3: weeks or something. So there's this feeling of and there's
Speaker 3: so much information out there and things you should and
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be eating and you have to worry about
Speaker 3: and so that actually really surprised me. I didn't think
Speaker 3: I would have any anxiety around that. But I did,
Speaker 3: and I think now that I'm in the second trimester,
Speaker 3: I'm feeling a lot better and we're just feeling really, yeah,
Speaker 3: really excited. And it's been beautiful as well to see
Speaker 3: my husband kind of go through the journey as well
Speaker 3: and just how happy and excited he is, And yeah,
Speaker 3: it's been it's really special.
Speaker 2: I really love also, Laura, that you have been so
Speaker 2: candid about the rollercoaster of emotions and when you were
Speaker 2: talking about how you told Michelle, I've been feeling this way,
Speaker 2: what about you? And she hadn't had that experience. There
Speaker 2: will be so many women listening that will feel that way,
Speaker 2: and I know that here today that will really resonate
Speaker 2: with a lot of people. But every part of your
Speaker 2: life that you have chosen to share with your audience
Speaker 2: and your followers, and obviously that's a huge part of
Speaker 2: the Kick brand. It really is great for women to
Speaker 2: be seen whatever their experience is, whether it's your experience,
Speaker 2: or whether it's how your co founder, Steph Claire Smith
Speaker 2: feels about things, or whether it is then other women
Speaker 2: that you're working with in the wider industry, like Michelle Andrews.
Speaker 2: The more variety of experiences we have, the more likely
Speaker 2: everyone's going to feel a little bit less alone and isolated.
Speaker 2: So I love that that candor and that ambiguity that
Speaker 2: you've been so honest about it doesn't go away. I mean,
Speaker 2: life is complex and messy and it's still it's always
Speaker 2: the best of times.
Speaker 4: And that doesn't mean that it looks perfect and is
Speaker 4: wrapped up with a little bow.
Speaker 3: No, So thank you. That means a lot, and it's
Speaker 3: so true. I think that's something that I go through
Speaker 3: roller coasters with social media and my I mean, I've
Speaker 3: been doing it now for well Kick is this We're
Speaker 3: going into our tenth year for Kick, and so I've
Speaker 3: been doing social media maybe three years before that, so
Speaker 3: thirteen years of sharing my life online and also sharing
Speaker 3: a lot of content of obviously, if you build a
Speaker 3: personal brand, the content is of you. And so I think,
Speaker 3: and I know a lot of people go through this.
Speaker 3: You kind of go through stages where you feel like
Speaker 3: what is this for? Like is this just this platform
Speaker 3: where I'm not a narcissist per se, but it's just
Speaker 3: about me? And it's like all these photos and videos
Speaker 3: of me? And I think something that I find when
Speaker 3: I do go through that is when I'm then able
Speaker 3: to use my platform to be able to help. If
Speaker 3: I can help one person feel not alone in what
Speaker 3: they're going through, then it's it's worth it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: That is definitely social media at its best. And on
Speaker 2: that note, Laura, announcing this news this week, there's obviously
Speaker 2: going to be huge outpouring of support and that response
Speaker 2: that you had from Steph for instance, You're probably going
Speaker 2: to see that and feel that being replicated from loved ones,
Speaker 2: people that in your circle who don't know the news yet,
Speaker 2: but also of course people that have never met you.
Speaker 2: The quintessential parasocial relationship, but people that will really feel
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to ask you. I suppose to preempt.
Speaker 2: That, but I would still be curious to know how
Speaker 2: you're feeling about that. But also the flip side of
Speaker 2: that and that parasocial relationship, Laura, which is something that
Speaker 2: I know you've spoken about in the past, which is
Speaker 2: you've also had to deal with people asking, oh, are
Speaker 2: you pregnant? And I know you've called that as being
Speaker 2: a really inappropriate question, And of course how you're feeling
Speaker 2: about the outpouring of.
Speaker 4: Love but also probably unsolicited but well meaning but still
Speaker 4: not necessarily wanted advice that will be coming your way
Speaker 4: over the coming weeks.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I mean I know from Steph and other
Speaker 3: mothers that I speak to, the unsolicited advice around motherhood
Speaker 3: is absolutely crazy. I think for me, it's interesting. I'm
Speaker 3: really excited to announce it and share it with people,
Speaker 3: but I think I also have a fear inside me
Speaker 3: when I share it and then I'm letting people down
Speaker 3: because I think last year what I found was in
Speaker 3: doing the miniseries and navigating that a lot of people
Speaker 3: that also kind of followed the journey with me and
Speaker 3: made a decision decided not to have children. And obviously
Speaker 3: it's my have to remember it's my life and I
Speaker 3: need to decide for myself what I want to do.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what the miniseries kind of came down to,
Speaker 3: and making this huge decision. You have to make it
Speaker 3: for yourself. You can't make it for anyone else. But
Speaker 3: I think, and I know, as someone who didn't know
Speaker 3: if they want to have children and wasn't ready to
Speaker 3: have children, that I and I've had this with some
Speaker 3: friends that I've told, and I totally understand. There's friends
Speaker 3: that are very maternal and like Steph for example, that
Speaker 3: was so excited and I was so grateful for that.
Speaker 3: But then there's also people that I think was me,
Speaker 3: Like last year when my friends were telling me they
Speaker 3: were pregnant. It's almost this feeling of grieving a friendship
Speaker 3: that you know is going to change and they're not
Speaker 3: in the same stage as you because they either might
Speaker 3: not want to have kids or they're not ready. And
Speaker 3: so I think that for me is something that I'm
Speaker 3: really conscious of in the announcement, is for the people
Speaker 3: that decided maybe they didn't want to have kids and
Speaker 3: felt that maybe they related to me because of the miniseries,
Speaker 3: that this could be something that they feel disconnected from
Speaker 3: me from and I meaning there's nothing we can we
Speaker 3: can do about that, right, It just it is what
Speaker 3: it is. But I do feel that, and I think
Speaker 3: I in there when I've told people you kind of
Speaker 3: have well maybe three reactions per se. There's the ones
Speaker 3: that are people that are really happy that have kids
Speaker 3: and are like, welcome to the club. I'm so excited,
Speaker 3: Like Steph was like, it's so funny. She always text
Speaker 3: me about baby stuff and I always try to reply
Speaker 3: like in an understanding way, but she's like, you just
Speaker 3: don't get it, you know, and I was like, I
Speaker 3: totally I don't know. I don't have kids. And then
Speaker 3: there's there's the group of people that maybe don't want
Speaker 3: to have kids, aren't ready that it's like that grief
Speaker 3: of grieving of a friendship. And then there's which I
Speaker 3: think it's interesting, I think it that doesn't necessarily have
Speaker 3: to happen. I think that's something that I went through
Speaker 3: last year and that you know, I don't It's totally
Speaker 3: fine for people that want to make motherhood their entire identity,
Speaker 3: but for me, I think that that actually wouldn't be
Speaker 3: serving myself. And then the third group of people is
Speaker 3: the people that have tried really hard to have children
Speaker 3: and then haven't been able to and that kind of
Speaker 3: that feeling of you know, you know, they're so happy
Speaker 3: for you, but they also it's heartbreaking every single time
Speaker 3: they find out that someone is pregnant, and so that's
Speaker 3: probably how I'm feeling about announcing. And then in terms
Speaker 3: of the unsolicited stuff that comes through, I mean, I
Speaker 3: think that the biggest one, as you said, is when
Speaker 3: people had said to me, are you pregnant? And that
Speaker 3: was actually to do with the way that my body looked.
Speaker 3: And I got a few messages saying like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: you've got a little pot beally, and I just it
Speaker 3: just made me think, like, are you pregnant or you know,
Speaker 3: I probably shouldn't think this, but I wanted to send
Speaker 3: the message through. And I think if you're ever going
Speaker 3: to write to someone, I probably shouldn't think this, but
Speaker 3: I just wanted to send it through. Like I think
Speaker 3: it's probably a time not to send that through.
Speaker 1: Listen to your first instinct.
Speaker 3: Exactly right, exactly right. And as you said, it's a
Speaker 3: question that we should not ask women. We should never
Speaker 3: assume you never know what anyone is going through behind
Speaker 3: the scenes. But I think it is with social media.
Speaker 3: I've actually I've got a lot better at not taking
Speaker 3: on other people's stuff, Like I'm able to separate myself
Speaker 3: from that, which has taken quite a long time, but
Speaker 3: I think after quite a long time on the platform
Speaker 3: it does get a little bit easier.
Speaker 2: Laura really found what you said so interesting. I can
Speaker 2: feel the genuine empathy knowing how your news might affect
Speaker 2: different people. And I was thinking about a parallel in
Speaker 2: the culture which the risk of hopefully not sounding flippant
Speaker 2: here with Sex and the City, and of course it's
Speaker 2: spin off and just like that. But obviously Sarah Jessica
Speaker 2: Parker's character was a quintessential single girl, Carrie Bradshaw, and
Speaker 2: then at the end of the original Sex and the
Speaker 2: City series, she famously ended up coupling up with the
Speaker 2: character of Big and then at the end of it
Speaker 2: some women felt betrayed that she then had ended up
Speaker 2: coupled up. I wonder if what you think about that
Speaker 2: as sort of a similar parallel. In some ways, someone
Speaker 2: like you is feeling this responsibility because you had gone
Speaker 2: public and been generous with that ambiguity with the series.
Speaker 2: Do I want kids that you're clearly feeling a sense
Speaker 2: I think of misplaced responsibility for what it's worth or
Speaker 2: not misplaced. But I don't think you're letting anyone down.
Speaker 2: Do you think that comparison. Does that resonate with you
Speaker 2: at all?
Speaker 3: I think that's such a great parallel, and it's very true.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes that and this is something that I've
Speaker 3: got a lot better at navigating. And I think also
Speaker 3: society as a whole, like especially on socials, has got
Speaker 3: better at navigating on social media, and that is that
Speaker 3: people can change their mind. I think for a very
Speaker 3: long time I lived in fear, and I think it
Speaker 3: did hold me back a lot from speaking up and
Speaker 3: you know, speaking my mind and standing up for what
Speaker 3: I believed in, because there was always this fear of well,
Speaker 3: what if I change my mind in three years? What
Speaker 3: if I change my mind in you know, two years,
Speaker 3: five years, whatever it might be. And then someone pulls
Speaker 3: this clip up and says that you're a liar and
Speaker 3: you're inauthentic. And for me, with building my like my
Speaker 3: personal brand, being authentic is one of the most important
Speaker 3: things to me, and so that was such a fear.
Speaker 3: I think work I can't speak up about anything because
Speaker 3: what if? What if I change my mind or what
Speaker 3: if I get it wrong? And I think something that
Speaker 3: we've got a lot better at as a society is
Speaker 3: allowing people's space to change their mind. And I think
Speaker 3: for me, I know that we only know what we know,
Speaker 3: and so if I feel with what I know right now,
Speaker 3: I want to speak about something and or you know,
Speaker 3: have a thought or an opinion on something like that's okay,
Speaker 3: And in five years I might know so much more.
Speaker 3: I might experience more and if that changes, like, that's
Speaker 3: that's good. Right, Like we if we're like from to say,
Speaker 3: from the age of two while but whatever it is,
Speaker 3: if we held exactly the same opinions for the rest
Speaker 3: of our lives, what a shallow life we would have, right,
Speaker 3: So I think for me, that's something that really helps
Speaker 3: with that feeling of responsibility for what you kind of Yeah,
Speaker 3: what you explained and it's so true.
Speaker 2: And up next, Laura on taking on the Manisphere, her
Speaker 2: maternity leave plans and why she's scared for women's bodies.
Speaker 2: You recently made a lot of headlines. The clip went viral.
Speaker 2: Australian podcaster Chris Griffin was on his podcast was talking
Speaker 2: about what he perceives as the ideal relationship in a
Speaker 2: heterosexual dynamic that men go off to work and conquer
Speaker 2: the world and the women stay at home so when
Speaker 2: he gets home, they're there to go.
Speaker 1: Yes, I had a wonderful day. I've been waiting for
Speaker 1: you to come home, he said.
Speaker 2: A man that's got a busy life that's chasing his dreams,
Speaker 2: you know, really needs that harmony of the stay at
Speaker 2: home girlfriend or wife. Laura, you called this out for
Speaker 2: look obviously you can tell from my.
Speaker 1: Tone what I think about him.
Speaker 2: You called it out, I got a huge response.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: When you first saw that, you were obviously very fired up.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment that you thought, do I speak
Speaker 2: up about this or not? Because you're not only taking
Speaker 2: on a big topic, you know that you're going to
Speaker 2: have the Manisphere coming for you as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah. When I saw the video, so
Speaker 3: Steph actually sent it to me in the morning and
Speaker 3: I watched it, and I just felt this combination of
Speaker 3: kind of rage and also like what the like, what
Speaker 3: the heck is going on here? Like how was this content?
Speaker 3: Because for me, in my algorithm, I think that's the
Speaker 3: scariest thing with social media. And now, in all the
Speaker 3: research that I have done over the past few weeks,
Speaker 3: I have found out that the Manisphere content is actually
Speaker 3: in our mainstream. That's really scary. But it hadn't hit
Speaker 3: my algorithm. It's obviously not what I'm interested in watching,
Speaker 3: nor an opinion that I align with. So I got
Speaker 3: the video and I just thought, oh my goodness. And
Speaker 3: then over the day I thought, I think the first
Speaker 3: thing you kind of feel is defeat in like we
Speaker 3: have come. So now we are not in equal society
Speaker 3: in any way from a gender perspective. We've got such
Speaker 3: a long way to go, but we are getting closer, right,
Speaker 3: We are making progress. I know it's slow, but we
Speaker 3: are making it. And so when you see content like that,
Speaker 3: especially from a don't I can't. I don't know exactly
Speaker 3: how old he is twenty one, twenty two, twenty three
Speaker 3: year old male that isn't in a relationship talking to
Speaker 3: another male of the same age or similar age that
Speaker 3: also is in a relationship, hasn't experienced, you know, having children.
Speaker 3: I don't know if he does well. Actually, he has
Speaker 3: said he wants to have children, because he said that
Speaker 3: he wouldn't want a stranger to raise his children. So
Speaker 3: the expectation is that, and of course he doesn't. He
Speaker 3: won't do it because he's going to go to work.
Speaker 3: So he expects his partner to be able to do
Speaker 3: that as her role in this kind of traditional gender
Speaker 3: roles that he is pushing. And I just felt defeated,
Speaker 3: Like goodness me this content. I was reading through the
Speaker 3: comments and there was no comments pushing Maybe there was
Speaker 3: one pushing back on him. The rest of it was like, Wow,
Speaker 3: you're amazing, and I just thought this is insane. And
Speaker 3: so I thought about it through the day, and I
Speaker 3: think the first thing, I'm very conscious of calling people.
Speaker 3: I really tried to call him in. I don't think
Speaker 3: I've ever tagged someone on my story and said like
Speaker 3: this is not good enough. But the way that I felt,
Speaker 3: I think for me as well with pushing the fact
Speaker 3: that in the content, and I did listen to the
Speaker 3: full episode, I'm very conscious that you don't want to
Speaker 3: make a judgment on a one minute video. So I
Speaker 3: listened to the full one hour and forty five minutes,
Speaker 3: and it was, in my opinion, was worse than the
Speaker 3: clip in terms of that the theme was throughout the
Speaker 3: whole thing. It was not just that one clip. And
Speaker 3: for me, as someone who grew up in a household
Speaker 3: where my parents separated when I was twelve, my mum
Speaker 3: was not working full time, she did not have super
Speaker 3: it was invested in something else between my parents, and
Speaker 3: then had to go out and find a full time
Speaker 3: job and be a single mum. I have kind of
Speaker 3: experienced firsthand what happens when you kind of have these
Speaker 3: traditional gender roles at home. You don't have the conversations
Speaker 3: about finances, their ears. And I think within my parents,
Speaker 3: they you know, they do they did the best they can.
Speaker 3: I always it's so important. I always remember that they
Speaker 3: were parents for the first time, right, But there was
Speaker 3: unintended equality within that relationship, and so I have seen
Speaker 3: what happens. We know that women retire with way less
Speaker 3: super than men. We have a huge super gap. We
Speaker 3: know that women, when they take time off to raise children,
Speaker 3: if that's the expectation within their household and that's what
Speaker 3: they want to do, they don't. It's very it's very
Speaker 3: rare for their partner to contribute to their super They
Speaker 3: don't get paid for that. It's we know that motherhood
Speaker 3: is one of the most undervalued jobs in society. And
Speaker 3: so as the more I thought about it, I just
Speaker 3: thought this message is so dangerous because the other thing
Speaker 3: is this video was in this beautifully litz studio. It
Speaker 3: had this violin music or piano whatever it was behind it,
Speaker 3: and so it made it seem like it was motivational,
Speaker 3: like this is the life that you want to live,
Speaker 3: This is you know, you need to follow this person.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what, that's it I'm
Speaker 3: going to talk about this, and I was really conscious
Speaker 3: I wanted to make sure I didn't say anything about
Speaker 3: Chris's character. It was about the actions and those words
Speaker 3: that he said, and tried to call him in to say, hey,
Speaker 3: let's have a conversation about this. How do we because
Speaker 3: he's obviously got a huge audience that are influenced by
Speaker 3: the way that he speaks the content that he does. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: he did not respond in wanting to have a conversation.
Speaker 3: He did invite me to come on his podcast, but
Speaker 3: with his responses that he kind of had come back
Speaker 3: to me with online, I just didn't think it was
Speaker 3: going to be a productive conversation. He called himself a
Speaker 3: brick wall, and me and kind of the army that
Speaker 3: he in quotation marks of people that were standing up
Speaker 3: against him, which were mainly like amazing high profile women
Speaker 3: in the media and really just women generally that were
Speaker 3: so enraged that we were marshmallows. And I think this limiting,
Speaker 3: this limiting view of women is so so dangerous and
Speaker 3: we know now and in we actually I ended up
Speaker 3: doing a mini series on it that's just come out
Speaker 3: this week called Mi Equal. Was really important for me
Speaker 3: to do, because I think what's important if people do
Speaker 3: want to stay home, like in a heterosexual relationship, if
Speaker 3: the wife does want to stay home, or either parent
Speaker 3: wants to stay home, that is there is no judgment
Speaker 3: on that. That is absolutely fine, But they need to
Speaker 3: have all of the information. They need to have the
Speaker 3: conversations with their partner. They need to have financial control together.
Speaker 3: Not one person has financial control and then the other
Speaker 3: one is like, oh, it'll be fine, because you actually
Speaker 3: don't know if it's going to be fine, right, And
Speaker 3: so yeah, that was why it was really important for
Speaker 3: me to talk about it, because it's just something that
Speaker 3: if one person could listen to that and have a
Speaker 3: conversation and go home and have a conversation with their
Speaker 3: partner about, hey, actually i'm about to take two years
Speaker 3: off or nine months off, whatever it is. Could we
Speaker 3: jointly contribute to my super or you need to keep
Speaker 3: me up to date with the finances. I think as women,
Speaker 3: we often think that we're not good at finances. We
Speaker 3: don't have the confidence in it, we don't have the
Speaker 3: financial literacy, and that's something that a man does, and
Speaker 3: therefore we give all of that responsibility to him. That's
Speaker 3: also really dangerous for men as well to hold all
Speaker 3: of that responsibility on their shoulders. So yeah, it was
Speaker 3: a really important conversation for I think to have.
Speaker 2: Laura, what has been the response from your audience so far? Too?
Speaker 1: Am I equal?
Speaker 2: And the issues that you're canvassing there and that you
Speaker 2: also touched upon when you were responding to Chris's podcast, because,
Speaker 2: as you said, his commentary is packaged up in a
Speaker 2: certain way to the manisperit saying this is what a
Speaker 2: real man does, is done in a very strong this
Speaker 2: is what strong means. But for women, especially younger women
Speaker 2: jen Z and millennial women, we've seen hashtag trad wife,
Speaker 2: hashtag stay at home girlfriend. It's also a message that's
Speaker 2: been incredibly palatable and marketed in a very savvy way
Speaker 2: to young women, many of whom would be consuming your content.
Speaker 2: So what's the response been from them? They receptive to
Speaker 2: the conversation about how things might look right now might
Speaker 2: not be how it plays out when you're in your
Speaker 2: late fifties and sixties.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think as well, it's important to note with
Speaker 3: the tradwife content is stayed home girlfriends. I have no
Speaker 3: that trend. I struggled with so much because that period
Speaker 3: of our lives as women, as people in building careers
Speaker 3: is so incredibly important and fundamental to build the foundation.
Speaker 3: So we have that stability, build the skills. So we
Speaker 3: have this stability down the track in terms of trad wife,
Speaker 3: and I suppose with tradwives we usually see that they
Speaker 3: do have children. I think what's really scary with that
Speaker 3: content is it is so glamorized. It looks amazing, you know.
Speaker 3: And the thing is, these content creators, if you're creating
Speaker 3: content all day, you are you have a job. Right.
Speaker 3: So they're kind of showcasing it that they don't work,
Speaker 3: but they really do because being a content creator is
Speaker 3: a job in itself, and it looks. So they wear
Speaker 3: beautiful clothing, the cleaning looks lovely, the cooking looks lovely.
Speaker 3: They look after their husband, all of these things. You
Speaker 3: only see one percent of someone's life on social media, right,
Speaker 3: So I think that's so important to acknowledge. I think
Speaker 3: what's been really special in the response has just been
Speaker 3: the amount of women that have reached out that have
Speaker 3: either had this happen with their parents or it's happened
Speaker 3: to them. I've had so many conversations with women who
Speaker 3: devastatingly have been in relationships where they're past And this
Speaker 3: is why as well this piece of content, I wanted
Speaker 3: to call it out in terms of it being benevolent
Speaker 3: sexism in that it's control disguised as care. If they
Speaker 3: say this is really loving, this is you know, they're
Speaker 3: doing it because it's loving. They want to look after you,
Speaker 3: you want they want you to be in your feminine
Speaker 3: whatever the heck that means. They want you to have freedom.
Speaker 3: There is no such thing as freedom. If it is
Speaker 3: dictated how you need to be, that is not free, right,
Speaker 3: And so what was really really incredible to see was
Speaker 3: people kind of also the amount of women that sat
Speaker 3: that reached out to me and said that they had
Speaker 3: either like thank you for sharing this, or devastatingly they
Speaker 3: had been through it because their partner said they cared
Speaker 3: about them, they didn't want them to work, and now
Speaker 3: they're a single parent, they're in a lot of debt,
Speaker 3: they're struggling, they're living on Centrelink, and they wish they
Speaker 3: had have known and they had kind of had those conversations.
Speaker 3: And so that's been really really nice to be able
Speaker 3: to I suppose speak to them and for them to
Speaker 3: feel empowered by the conversations now being more mainstream. I
Speaker 3: think the other thing I have had is I've had
Speaker 3: quite a few conversations with stay at home mums who
Speaker 3: have felt that the content was very judgmental towards them
Speaker 3: and for me, I have most of them I've written
Speaker 3: back to and had a conversation with it. It's been
Speaker 3: a handful of people, and that was why in the
Speaker 3: mini series it was very important that we spoke about
Speaker 3: the fact that and my opinion is there is nothing
Speaker 3: wrong with there's no right or wrong right. Every single
Speaker 3: person knows what's right for their family. It's their decision,
Speaker 3: but it's making an informed decision that is really important,
Speaker 3: and not glamorizing traditional gender roles in a way that
Speaker 3: makes it seem like so loving and caring when a
Speaker 3: lot of the time there is so much, even if
Speaker 3: it's not intended, unintended inequality within those relationships.
Speaker 2: Laura, you are the CEO of Kick, Your co founder
Speaker 2: and kickpod co host step who we've just spoken about,
Speaker 2: has recently had a baby of her own, so she's
Speaker 2: got quite a brute Now. I know a conversation that
Speaker 2: you had on your own podcast was is she taking
Speaker 2: maternity leave parentally? What does that look like when you're
Speaker 2: running your own business? How are you looking ahead to
Speaker 2: the months ahead for our audience, will you be taking
Speaker 2: parental leave? And how on this early stage are you
Speaker 2: and your husband thinking that that balance and all of
Speaker 2: the things that you've just talked about, how that will
Speaker 2: be playing out in your household potentially. I mean, is
Speaker 2: any much of any of us can predict?
Speaker 3: Of course, of course, yeah, that's one thing, isn't it.
Speaker 3: But I said this is that I'm going to do
Speaker 3: in it, and my friend's like, you just wait, you
Speaker 3: never know what's going to happen. But anyway, I'll play
Speaker 3: it back to you in a year exactly. And I'm
Speaker 3: type A. I have to plan things otherwise it gives
Speaker 3: me so much anxiety to not know. So something that's
Speaker 3: always been very important to me in conversations that I've
Speaker 3: always had with my husband since we've spoken about children,
Speaker 3: is that we will share the load. In no way
Speaker 3: is there an expectation that I would stay home and
Speaker 3: bear child look after the children, and he would go
Speaker 3: to work. We both run our own businesses, we both
Speaker 3: really care about them, and so making sure that we
Speaker 3: have an equal approach is very very important. Exactly how
Speaker 3: that will look, I'm not sure. I think my plan
Speaker 3: at the moment is to take to do take some
Speaker 3: time off. But I think something and this is on me,
Speaker 3: this is in no way there's my maternity leave that
Speaker 3: I'm able to take is the same as what Stef's taking.
Speaker 3: So STEP's taking three months out of the business. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's with this job. It's still like we're still for example,
Speaker 3: we recorded a podcast yesterday, like there's still things that
Speaker 3: you know, we come back for, but kind of out
Speaker 3: of the day to day for six months actually and
Speaker 3: then to kind of but after three months return to
Speaker 3: some of the other things that we do that aren't
Speaker 3: kind of operational in the business. I think for me,
Speaker 3: that's probably the plan that I have at the moment.
Speaker 3: But I do have a big fear of boredom and
Speaker 3: what how And I know when I say boredhom I
Speaker 3: know raising a child is the hardest thing ever. I
Speaker 3: know I don't have kids right now, and so any
Speaker 3: mum's listening and probably like you're crazy, but it's I
Speaker 3: know it's going to be so busy, but it's also
Speaker 3: a very different type of simulation. And I think for me,
Speaker 3: something that I and something that I probably really need
Speaker 3: to really work through and I have been trying to
Speaker 3: work through and knowing that this was coming up in
Speaker 3: taking a little bit of time off and having kids
Speaker 3: is I often will deal with things by just filling
Speaker 3: my entire calendar, you know, with ten hour days, and
Speaker 3: then I don't have to think about anything because by
Speaker 3: the time I come home, I'm so tired and I
Speaker 3: just I just go to bed. So even for example,
Speaker 3: in the first the six weeks where I felt really depressed,
Speaker 3: the way I was able to deal with that was
Speaker 3: filling my calendar. And so I know I'm not going
Speaker 3: to be able to do that when I have like
Speaker 3: when I when we have our kid, and so it's
Speaker 3: something that I'm I have to say, that's probably what
Speaker 3: I'm the most scared of. I'm really I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I've often like postnatal depression is really is obviously such
Speaker 3: a serious condition, it's so scary. I think it's something
Speaker 3: that I've always thought. I wonder if I feel like
Speaker 3: I have a lot of the trait the way that
Speaker 3: I think and things, and that I've tried to deal
Speaker 3: with things means that that might be something that I
Speaker 3: deal with. I mean, I don't know, but that's always
Speaker 3: been a fear of mine. And so I think, while
Speaker 3: I do plan to take that time off, if I
Speaker 3: am really struggling, I think I'm grateful that I am
Speaker 3: able to dip back into work earlier if I need
Speaker 3: to or pick more things up, which I know is
Speaker 3: a shocking I need to actually deal with the problem.
Speaker 3: Putting work on top of it is not the solution,
Speaker 3: but I like that I have that safety blanket that
Speaker 3: if I do want to come back earlier, I can.
Speaker 2: I think that you have got it all sorted out
Speaker 2: in a perfect way in that you've got some clear
Speaker 2: ideas about how you'd like things to play out a
Speaker 2: high degree of self awareness, and are prepared for the
Speaker 2: universe to do what it's going to do. I think
Speaker 2: that is you know, I don't necessarily believe in a
Speaker 2: birth plan, but I think in terms of an actual
Speaker 2: plan that is a rock solid one. Laura, I wanted
Speaker 2: to ask you a little bit about ten years, as
Speaker 2: I say, coming up with Kick and you are CEO,
Speaker 2: and when you're talking earlier about how people would slide
Speaker 2: into your DMS or message and say, Oh, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I should say this, but I mean I
Speaker 2: thought I noticed a little bump there. What that says
Speaker 2: about still, even in twenty twenty five, toxic diet culture,
Speaker 2: body shaming, the way that we still police our own
Speaker 2: bodies and those of other women.
Speaker 1: That's something that you've really.
Speaker 2: Stared down at KICK, you and Stephan being a big
Speaker 2: part of the conversation in terms of where the wider
Speaker 2: culture is.
Speaker 1: At the moment.
Speaker 2: We've seen the rise of skinny talk, for instance, in
Speaker 2: terms of those conversations that you're having at KICK, Do
Speaker 2: you have concerns about the progress that we've made going
Speaker 2: backwards in some of those areas.
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, And I mean why we started KICK. Steph
Speaker 3: and I both went through our own experiences with disordered
Speaker 3: eating and binge eating, and we knew that. I think
Speaker 3: what's really difficult with the diet industry is we know
Speaker 3: that if you move your body and you eat well,
Speaker 3: and you're empowered with tools and feel confident enough to
Speaker 3: exercise and know how to because that's a privilege a
Speaker 3: lot of people. If you don't enjoy sport at school,
Speaker 3: sometimes you might not have actually ever done any activity,
Speaker 3: and then you get out of school or your twenties
Speaker 3: or whatever, and you want to move and you don't
Speaker 3: know how because it's really intimidating. It's a privilege to
Speaker 3: have access to that information. But I think what's really
Speaker 3: difficult is that a lot of it is packaged up
Speaker 3: in diet culture. And so with Kick, that's something that's
Speaker 3: why we started. It was to create a place and
Speaker 3: a tool where people could come and be empowered with
Speaker 3: those tools without the pressure to measure themselves or look
Speaker 3: a certain way. And we have, as you said, been
Speaker 3: on this journey now for ten years, which is so crazy.
Speaker 3: It feels like one hundred but also one at the
Speaker 3: same time. But I think what's really scary, and this
Speaker 3: is very much in line with you know, as you
Speaker 3: said skinny talk on TikTok, there's all of this pro
Speaker 3: ed content on there, which if someone watches a young
Speaker 3: person like a really when you're young and you're impressionable,
Speaker 3: it's I mean that was when I went through I
Speaker 3: was about nineteen when I went through my disordered eating.
Speaker 3: You have all this common sense, like even in school
Speaker 3: I did biology, I understood that I couldn't eat exactly
Speaker 3: like someone else and exercise like them and look like them,
Speaker 3: because it's literally impossible. But it goes out the window
Speaker 3: when you're in this comparison trap and thinking that you're
Speaker 3: not good enough. And so that's what's really scary with
Speaker 3: that content because if someone watches that that then then
Speaker 3: they serve them another video. Then the algorithm sends them
Speaker 3: another video, and then that becomes their entire feed. And
Speaker 3: if they're spending like a lot of us hours a
Speaker 3: day on TikTok and Instagram, that is so much time
Speaker 3: to be exposed to that message. And I think the
Speaker 3: other thing that's scary coupled with that is the rise
Speaker 3: of ozenpic. Now, with ozenpick, there are people that are
Speaker 3: using it and it is saving their life and there's
Speaker 3: a purpose, right, And I don't have any judgment on that.
Speaker 3: But the really dark side of ozeenpic that I'm really
Speaker 3: scared of is the people for society, is the people
Speaker 3: that are getting access to a zeenpic that are not
Speaker 3: in any way overweight or have a health condition that
Speaker 3: is impacted by the size of their body. And that
Speaker 3: is what is scary. I mean, we're seeing in Hollywood
Speaker 3: celebrities are getting skinnier and skinnier. I mean they're always
Speaker 3: they always have smaller bodies, but they're getting smaller and smaller.
Speaker 3: And that's what's really really scary. I think we see
Speaker 3: that and it's so crazy that this is the case.
Speaker 3: But women's bodies trend, right there's the stage where we
Speaker 3: had the hourglass trend, and then we had back when
Speaker 3: I was in my phase of disordered eating, it was
Speaker 3: very much the caate moss, like nothing tastes as good
Speaker 3: as skinny feels, which is so insane, but that was
Speaker 3: like a very popular thing on was it on Pinterest
Speaker 3: or something like that, tumbl tumbler the tumblr blocks, so
Speaker 3: so many people would share that. And what's really scary
Speaker 3: is with the rise of ozen pic people having access
Speaker 3: to it that on the black market or whatever you
Speaker 3: call it. That I'm very scared we're going to enter
Speaker 3: a trend again of extreme thin and small bodies, and
Speaker 3: that is for women and for the pressure to look
Speaker 3: that way, because there's always this pressure that we need
Speaker 3: to societal pressure from you know, so many elements sometimes
Speaker 3: the media, society, social media to fit a mold, and
Speaker 3: the mold is getting really really small and that's really
Speaker 3: really scary because we know that when we feel pressure
Speaker 3: to change the way that our bodies look, and we
Speaker 3: think that the way that our body looks as women
Speaker 3: is the most important thing about us, and we do change,
Speaker 3: you know, we exercise more or we eat less. Usually
Speaker 3: that's what people will do. You think about food twenty
Speaker 3: four to seven. And that was for me when I
Speaker 3: was in my phase of disordered eating. I was the
Speaker 3: smallest I had ever been. I was. I had a
Speaker 3: goal weight, and I'll never forget. I remember when I
Speaker 3: got to this goal weight, and I thought, if I
Speaker 3: get to this weight, I was depriving myself. I was exhausted.
Speaker 3: I didn't I was exercising when I had hardly eaten.
Speaker 3: I couldn't study like my studies. I was doing my
Speaker 3: law de great at the time, I could not focus
Speaker 3: on it because I had no brain cells because I
Speaker 3: was not fueling my body. And I remember I got
Speaker 3: to this goal weight and I thought, sorry, if I
Speaker 3: get to this goal weight, I will be happy. All
Speaker 3: my dreams will come true. That's all that. Then I
Speaker 3: will be worthy, I will be good enough. And I
Speaker 3: remember I got to the goal weight. I looked in
Speaker 3: the mirror, and I thought, you're still not good enough,
Speaker 3: Like you need to now change this about your body
Speaker 3: and you need to keep going. And that's what's scary
Speaker 3: is that there is no and when you're in that mindset,
Speaker 3: there is no endpoint to that. And yeah, that's what
Speaker 3: I think. I'm the most scared about it at the
Speaker 3: moment in terms of the way that we see the
Speaker 3: industry going.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the work that you and Steph
Speaker 2: are doing really is a powerful way to combat that.
Speaker 2: So well done, and thanks for opening up about your
Speaker 2: own experience there with our audience, because I do think
Speaker 2: those examples and that candor really helps with these conversations.
Speaker 4: Laura.
Speaker 2: My final question for you was actually going back to
Speaker 2: the looming arrival of your baby in a couple of
Speaker 2: trimester's times. So I'm not going to hit you up
Speaker 2: about whether you know the gender yet or much less
Speaker 2: if you want to share it and even baby names,
Speaker 2: but I would like to talk a little bit about surnames,
Speaker 2: family names, because one of the things I've always really
Speaker 2: loved about your story is that your husband actually changed
Speaker 2: his surname when the two of you got married. Look, bravo,
Speaker 2: really genuinely just think it's such a wonderful decision reflects
Speaker 2: so well I think on the two of you. If
Speaker 2: that doesn't sound patronizing to say that. So, have you
Speaker 2: had any discussions about what the family name will be
Speaker 2: for your baby when they arrive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that was something that in making the decision
Speaker 3: in my husband knew that. I mean, I did say
Speaker 3: when we got married. I said to him, look, I
Speaker 3: don't really want to change my name. I've built my
Speaker 3: brand around my name. It means a lot to me. However,
Speaker 3: I don't expect you to change your name. We had
Speaker 3: a really open conversation about it, in a way that
Speaker 3: there was no expectation that because I was female I
Speaker 3: would change my name and because he was the man,
Speaker 3: I would take his name. However, we both will open
Speaker 3: and I said to him, look, if this is something
Speaker 3: that means a lot to you and is going to
Speaker 3: impact your life, if I don't take your name, I'm
Speaker 3: also really happy to have that conversation with you. But
Speaker 3: for him, he said, no, I think it. You know,
Speaker 3: if he didn't want to have a different it was
Speaker 3: really important to him that if we did have kids,
Speaker 3: that he had the same surname as his kids. Obviously,
Speaker 3: there's so many people that don't change their name, and
Speaker 3: so so if the in a head sexual relationship, if
Speaker 3: the woman keeps her name, the child will often take
Speaker 3: the husband's surname. That doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong
Speaker 3: with that, but for Dulton personally, that was something really
Speaker 3: important to him, and so that was why he decided
Speaker 3: that he would change his name. He said, well, it
Speaker 3: makes sense for you to keep your name, and I
Speaker 3: want to have the same surname as our kids, so
Speaker 3: I'll change my name. And so what that will mean
Speaker 3: is that our baby will have our surname, Henshaw, our
Speaker 3: shared surname. And we actually it's funny. We do know
Speaker 3: the gender. We're not going to share it until like
Speaker 3: on social media, but do we do know? And I
Speaker 3: had names in my phone and so did adult for
Speaker 3: one gender, and we had zero names to the other gender.
Speaker 3: And we're having the gender that we don't have names for.
Speaker 3: So it's been so funny just trying to work out
Speaker 3: the name because we keep sending each other things and
Speaker 3: it's so funny with every name it's like, no I
Speaker 3: knew someone they were mean or makes me think of
Speaker 3: this or whatever. So we definitely have no idea what
Speaker 3: the name is going to be, but that's okay. I'm
Speaker 3: sure we'll work it out by the time we've got
Speaker 3: quite a few months left. But yeah, that's been quite funny.
Speaker 2: That will be a little fun pastime over the coming
Speaker 2: weeks as well, is to keep swapping ideas for the.
Speaker 1: Gender that you hadn't preempted.
Speaker 2: Laura, congratulations again to you and your husband on your
Speaker 2: happy news, and thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2: It's been really wonderful to chat to you about a
Speaker 2: lot of things solving the problems of the world. I
Speaker 2: think you know, one conversation at a time, and you
Speaker 2: can hear Laura Henshaw's new podcast, Am I Equal via Kickpod,
Speaker 2: and you can catch Laura on the Kick app. We'll
Speaker 2: have a link to both of those in our show notes,
Speaker 2: and if you're interested in hearing more about Kick, We've
Speaker 2: also will have a link to an interview with Laura's
Speaker 2: co founder, Steph Claire Smith in the show notes as well.
Speaker 1: Laura, thanks again for.
Speaker 3: Your time, Thank you so much, see it soon.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me today. I hope you've enjoyed
Speaker 2: this episode. Let us know by leaving a review or
Speaker 2: maybe sending it to a friend, and make sure you're
Speaker 2: following something to talk about, because we'll be back with
Speaker 2: another exclusive guest next week.