WEBVTT - This is what political retribution looks like

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>What happens when you have a democratically elected leader who

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<v Speaker 1>takes it upon themselves to prosecute their political opponents, as

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<v Speaker 1>US President elect Donald Trump has vowed to do. The

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<v Speaker 1>Philippines is a far more corrupt system, but its former president,

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<v Speaker 1>Rodrigo de Turte, is someone who did exactly that. One

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<v Speaker 1>such opponent was Lylah de Leima, lawyer, politician and human

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<v Speaker 1>rights activist who opposed to Turta's death squads and corruption

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<v Speaker 1>before she was falsely tired as a drug lord and

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<v Speaker 1>locked up for nearly seven years. Today, Walkley Award winning

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<v Speaker 1>journalist Margaret Simon's a Lilah de Lema and why the

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<v Speaker 1>Philippines is the canary in the coal mine for democracy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, December four, Margie. You've reported extensively from the Philippines.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you take us back to twenty sixteen when Dette

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<v Speaker 1>had just become president. What was it like in the

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<v Speaker 1>country at that time?

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<v Speaker 2>So De Tourte was a classic populist politician. He had

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<v Speaker 2>been a mayor. He had a support base in that

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<v Speaker 2>region of the Philippines, and he came to political prominence nationally,

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<v Speaker 2>promising to clear up corruption.

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<v Speaker 3>President of that Rodrigo de Erte promised to crush crime

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<v Speaker 3>and illegal drugs in six months. The goal, he said,

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<v Speaker 3>is to create an investor friendly environment that would spur

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<v Speaker 3>economic growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Promising to end crime through the war on drugs. He

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<v Speaker 2>promised that if necessary, he would personally kill drug dealers.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd prefer to feut them in the heart for in behead.

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<v Speaker 4>If you insist on a drug war, I will.

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<v Speaker 2>So people knew what they were getting. He didn't hide

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<v Speaker 2>what he was planning to do, and he did, in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, carry that out.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the most vocal opponents against the Turta's

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<v Speaker 1>drug war was Lola Delima. Tell us about who she

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<v Speaker 1>is and how you first heard of her.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she's a key figure and her story is an

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<v Speaker 2>extraordinary one.

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<v Speaker 5>Mister President, my dear colleagues, I rise on matters of

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<v Speaker 5>personal and collective privilege concerning a number of issues that

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<v Speaker 5>not dominate the news and divide our people. Our nation

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<v Speaker 5>is in crisis, this crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think I've been aware of her ever since

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<v Speaker 2>I first started reporting on the Philippines, which would be

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<v Speaker 2>back in about twenty fifteen. She's been a prominent lawyer,

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<v Speaker 2>bureaucrat and also one of the main critics of Rodrigo

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<v Speaker 2>de turte first as head of the Human Rights Commission

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<v Speaker 2>and then as a senator who was in opposition to him.

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<v Speaker 5>We cannot go on being indifferent to the daily executions

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<v Speaker 5>without ultimately becoming a nation bound by a collective sociopathy.

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<v Speaker 2>When she was head of the Department of Justice, she

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<v Speaker 2>oversaw a number of raids on the main prison in

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<v Speaker 2>the Philippines and discovered it's really like an episode of

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<v Speaker 2>NACo's Luxurious Villas, in which the main drug criminals who

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<v Speaker 2>were imprisoned were living with jacuzzi bars and high end

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<v Speaker 2>mobile phones.

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<v Speaker 6>Air conditioning units, hot tubs, sex dolls, and even music

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<v Speaker 6>equipment from inmates room and so called pleasure villains.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really quite extraordinary, all in the middle of thegile.

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<v Speaker 6>Robbery group leader Henley Kolanco has even been able to

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<v Speaker 6>record music videos in hoold weekly concerts inside a high

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<v Speaker 6>security facility.

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<v Speaker 1>A storied career of fighting drug lords, but her battle

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<v Speaker 1>with the Turtei started before all that, when she was

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<v Speaker 1>an anti corruption investigator. Can you tell me about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there were a number of really key investigations, but

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<v Speaker 2>the main one was in Watson known as the Devo's

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<v Speaker 2>Death Squad, which was in the city of Devoo, which

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<v Speaker 2>Deturtay was at the time mayor of that city.

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<v Speaker 4>In the mid nineties, rising criminality in Davao also saw

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<v Speaker 4>an increase in summary executions. Many of them were abducted

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<v Speaker 4>under cover of darkness, only to appear hogtied and dead

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<v Speaker 4>days later.

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<v Speaker 2>And there were allegations that there was a crowd of

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<v Speaker 2>vigilantes who was sponsored by him, who were murdering both

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<v Speaker 2>enemies of his but also straight criminals, homeless children and

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<v Speaker 2>so on, And that was really the beginning of her

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<v Speaker 2>antagonistic relationship with the president.

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<v Speaker 4>The ombudsman did charge more than twenty police officers for

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<v Speaker 4>failure to stop the killings, but that's as far as

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<v Speaker 4>it went. Investigators say witnesses are too afraid to talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Delima investigated that, but in a strange reversal in the

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<v Speaker 2>tourte's world, and it's a great example of misinformation, she

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly became not the person who was persecuting the drug criminals,

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<v Speaker 2>but actually the head of their network.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did Lena go from being an anti corruption

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<v Speaker 1>campaign into being accused of the thing that she was

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<v Speaker 1>fighting against. Can you tell me about some of the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence that was presented against her?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, her reputation has been thoroughly trashed, of course. In

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen, de Turte began a campaign against her alleging

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<v Speaker 2>that she was head of a drug network, that she

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<v Speaker 2>was in fact the king ben of the country's illegal

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<v Speaker 2>drug trade.

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<v Speaker 7>Senator Lailah Delima was arrested at the Senate in the

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<v Speaker 7>capitol early on Friday morning. She's accused of running an

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<v Speaker 7>illegal drug syndicate at the National Penitentiary, which she was

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<v Speaker 7>just as secretary in the previous government.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the drug criminals in the prison and gave

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<v Speaker 2>evidence against her, claiming that he had paid her millions

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<v Speaker 2>of dollars in bribes, which she supposedly is to finance

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<v Speaker 2>her campaign to enter the Senate. Her driver, who was

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<v Speaker 2>also a former lover, gave evidence that he had been

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<v Speaker 2>effectively her bagman. So at the same time as Deturte

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<v Speaker 2>released his evidence, fake videos began to circulate online. Suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>there were numerous copies of a supposed sex video of

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<v Speaker 2>her with this driver circulating online. If it was fake,

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<v Speaker 2>but of course widely believed. She was supposedly shown in

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<v Speaker 2>one video singing at a birthday party alongside a drug lord.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, she was singing at her own birthday party,

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<v Speaker 2>and the supposed drug award was just one of her

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues that this was again widely circulated widely believe.

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<v Speaker 1>So within a short space of time, we've gone from

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<v Speaker 1>her being one of the most ferocious any corruption investigators

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<v Speaker 1>in the country to being wildly and almost universally acknowledged

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<v Speaker 1>as one of the most corrupt, biggest drug lords in

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<v Speaker 1>the country. How did that happen so quickly?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a real topsy turvy world. But the terrifying thing

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<v Speaker 2>is exactly as you say that it happened with great

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<v Speaker 2>speed and seemingly great ease, And there are good reasons

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<v Speaker 2>for that. Facebook is very cunningly in the Philippines and

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<v Speaker 2>some other developing countries, has done deals with the phone

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<v Speaker 2>companies so that use of Facebook is free of data

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<v Speaker 2>charges which are otherwise prohibitive for the poor. Facebook is

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<v Speaker 2>the Internet. They use the terms interchangeably, and so when

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<v Speaker 2>misinformation began to be used by Dette and others, it

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<v Speaker 2>very quickly infected the popular mindset in the Philippines. The

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<v Speaker 2>legal system in the Philippines suffers from corruption. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>long standing problem. I wouldn't want to say that all

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<v Speaker 2>judges are corrupt, but certainly I think the average citizen

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<v Speaker 2>with some foundation has little faith that they can get

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<v Speaker 2>a fair judgment. In Deleima's case, the Secretary of Justice

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<v Speaker 2>did to Toto's bidding. Several judges did Detto's bidding as well.

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<v Speaker 2>There's enough corruption for people not to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>be confident of the courts.

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<v Speaker 1>So her reputation is trashed. She's framed. What happens next?

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<v Speaker 2>She was then investigated and eventually prosecuted by Detererte's Secretary

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<v Speaker 2>of Justice that the band who occupied the post that

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<v Speaker 2>Dilema had once occupied, and she was jailed. Laila Delima

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<v Speaker 2>was prisoned in Camp Crime in Kazon City, the jail

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<v Speaker 2>for high profile detainees. She had very small quarters there,

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<v Speaker 2>no air conditioning, no electronic devices, very basic living conditions.

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<v Speaker 2>She spent a total of nearly seven years to be exact,

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<v Speaker 2>six years, eight months, twenty one days in those conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break Layla Delema's fight for freedom and their

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<v Speaker 1>warning for democracy, Margaret after being locked up for nearly

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<v Speaker 1>seven years, Laala Delima was finally free. How did that happen?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? So she was freed on bail last November, and

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<v Speaker 2>the final set of charges against her collapsed. In June.

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<v Speaker 8>Former Philippine Senator A Leila Delimos free and home. A

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<v Speaker 8>small crowd twelve wisher has greeted her as soon as

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<v Speaker 8>she stepped out of the airport.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, the evidence against her collapse. All the witnesses werecanted

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<v Speaker 2>and said that they had been both bribed and coerced

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<v Speaker 2>and intimidated into giving evidence against her, and so in

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<v Speaker 2>the end there was simply no evidence left.

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<v Speaker 8>Mud said many times before visiting her Ailien ninety one

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<v Speaker 8>year old mother is one of the first things she'd

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<v Speaker 8>do on leaving the tension. Well, she came out of

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<v Speaker 8>her mother's room, she had this to say.

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<v Speaker 5>I feel so good, I feel so great.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us about where you met it? It

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<v Speaker 1>was one of the first media interviews she did after

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<v Speaker 1>her release. What were some of the things that she

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<v Speaker 1>had to say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I've been obviously trying to get an interview

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<v Speaker 2>with her for some time. I asked to interview her

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<v Speaker 2>in her home. She didn't want to do that. Perhaps understandably,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a very precious face to her. And so in

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<v Speaker 2>the end, we just rented a fairly anonymous Manila office block.

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<v Speaker 2>So I asked her if it would be correct to

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<v Speaker 2>draw comparisons between Donald Trump and Deturte, and she readily

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<v Speaker 2>entered into that. She said that both of them were misogynists,

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<v Speaker 2>both of them were autocratic by instinct, both were liars,

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<v Speaker 2>and both came with criminal propensities. The famous journalist Maria Ressa,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the bravest women in the Philippines, has said

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<v Speaker 2>that the Philippines is the canary in the coal mine

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<v Speaker 2>of democracy if you like.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And so in the face of all this, what

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<v Speaker 1>is Delima going to do now?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she has extraordinary resilience because just three months after

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<v Speaker 2>the collapse of the final set of charges against her,

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<v Speaker 2>she announced that she was re entering politics and would

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<v Speaker 2>contest the midterm elections next May. She personally is running

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<v Speaker 2>very much on continuing a law reform campaign. She wants

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<v Speaker 2>to outlaw the family dynasties in politics. She wants to

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<v Speaker 2>give more force to the Human Rights Commission. So she's

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<v Speaker 2>very much a legal and human rights reformer.

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<v Speaker 1>And whatever chances of actually getting elected, or does Detererte's

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<v Speaker 1>populism still resonate.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I wouldn't want to put money on it. The

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<v Speaker 2>current president is Ferdinand Marcos, who came to power in

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<v Speaker 2>an alliance with the Dette family. His vice president is

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah de Turte, whose daughter of the former president. Things

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's fair to say are a bit better,

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<v Speaker 2>or not quite as bad. There are certainly still drug

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<v Speaker 2>killings by the police, but there aren't as many as

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<v Speaker 2>there were at the height of the killings under Dette.

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<v Speaker 2>The media are a little freer, a little less intimidated

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<v Speaker 2>than they were under Dette. But in terms of the economy,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no real sign that things are improving. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is a problem that we face in liberal

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<v Speaker 2>democracy sees around the world. The people who are on

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<v Speaker 2>the left have enormous trouble convincing a in battle population

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<v Speaker 2>that they understand their problems or their issues. They seem

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<v Speaker 2>very remote from the lives of ordinary people. Now, I

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<v Speaker 2>would say this is true of Delema as well. She's

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<v Speaker 2>certainly impressive and an incredible intellect, but she's not particularly charismatic.

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<v Speaker 2>If you put her up against Rodrida Deterto. With his

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<v Speaker 2>coarse language and his extremist words, it's easy to see

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<v Speaker 2>that he has the cut through with the ordinary Filipino

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<v Speaker 2>who's literally worried about getting enough food for the next meal,

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<v Speaker 2>Whereas Lello of Dilema talking about the importance of human

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<v Speaker 2>rights doesn't necessarily resonate, but certainly you can see the

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<v Speaker 2>impact of misinformation. Many ordinary Filipinos either think she's still

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<v Speaker 2>in jail, or if they know she's out of jail,

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<v Speaker 2>they think it must be because she is so powerful

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<v Speaker 2>and corrupt. So it's an upside down world, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>very hard for the truth to win in that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of environment.

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<v Speaker 1>Margaret, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Elon Musk is still not

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<v Speaker 1>entitled to receive a fifty six billion dollar US compensation

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<v Speaker 1>package for his work as Tesla's CEO. Aduble Word judge

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<v Speaker 1>is ruled. The decision comes despite shareholders voting in June

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<v Speaker 1>in favor of it. The judge, Chancellor Kathleen McCormick, found

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<v Speaker 1>the pay package to be excessive, the second time she's

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<v Speaker 1>reached that conclusion in the past year. In a statement

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<v Speaker 1>on x, Tesla said the ruling is wrong and the

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<v Speaker 1>company will appeal and Willworth has lodged an urgent application

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<v Speaker 1>with the Fair Work Commission to stop United Workers union

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<v Speaker 1>members from blocking access to its major distribution centers. The

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<v Speaker 1>action has led to empty shelves and a shortage of

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<v Speaker 1>items including nappies, toilet paper and bread. The union says

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<v Speaker 1>to strike involves fifteen hundred staff in Negotiations with the

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<v Speaker 1>supermarket are ongoing. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>See you tomorrow.