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Speaker 1: A good a champions Craig Anthony Harper and young Bobby

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Speaker 1: Gapuccio Capuccio even not Gabuccio from the other side of

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Speaker 1: the world, over there on the West coast of the

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Speaker 1: United States of America.

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Speaker 2: Hi, buddy, how are you.

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Speaker 3: I love it when you call me young Barby Kapuccio.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're young to me, bro, so you like my

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Speaker 2: little brother and from another mother on the other side

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Speaker 2: of the world. And you and I a little bit.

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Speaker 2: This is probably not a great way to start, but

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Speaker 2: fuck it, this is real. You and I are a

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Speaker 2: little bit melancholy right now because we were going to

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Speaker 2: talk about another topic, which we'll do next time. But

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Speaker 2: you and I were just chatting about the fact that yesterday,

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Speaker 2: as we record this, it's Thursday, the twenty fifth of September,

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Speaker 2: So yesterday, the twenty fourth was our two thousandth episode

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Speaker 2: went live. Thank you everybody for all the feedback and

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Speaker 2: the love and the best wishes. You're fucking great. We

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Speaker 2: dig you even more than you dig us, So thank you.

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Speaker 2: But I said to you, mate that you know January

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, and I said, one of the really interesting

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Speaker 2: but kind of sad things is that since we started

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Speaker 2: the show, six of our guests have passed away and

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Speaker 2: you didn't even know, well, one you didn't know that

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Speaker 2: stat and two you didn't know who they were. But

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Speaker 2: it kind of made you really sad. And I could

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Speaker 2: see in the moment like it's just and then you said,

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Speaker 2: how fleeting is it? And we just like, I'm sitting

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Speaker 2: here thinking we were going to talk about something else,

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Speaker 2: So I thought, I think maybe we should unpacked this

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Speaker 2: a little bit. But what was that reaction from you.

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Speaker 3: I think there was a few layers to it, and

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Speaker 3: you added to the context. I don't know, it's not

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Speaker 3: my age, because I've always known this, like how fragile

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Speaker 3: we all are. Yeah, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: times when we come across as being not fragile and

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Speaker 3: we come across as being in or we overproject our

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Speaker 3: abilities and kind of underacknowledge of vulnerabilities. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if that's existential dread and we're just we're just trying

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Speaker 3: to grapple with that. But one of the people that

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Speaker 3: you were talking about and how he struggled with mental

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Speaker 3: illness M and how that led up to M this

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Speaker 3: person losing their life. That really hit me because life

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Speaker 3: is life is hard, and and yes, it's hard for everyone.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like sometimes a lot of us underestimate

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Speaker 3: what people with traumatic brain injuries and legitimate mental health

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Speaker 3: issues go through and how hard these people try and

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Speaker 3: work on themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes how difficult it is to just move forward like

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Speaker 3: a millimeter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I am, without trying to sound like a bloody

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Speaker 2: broken record, I apologize everyone, But the last couple of months,

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Speaker 2: I've just been a bit crook, right, And one of

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Speaker 2: the symptoms it has just been that my bra I

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Speaker 2: felt like my brain was working at fifty percent, which

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Speaker 2: terrifies me, which I spoke about the other day on here.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, and just to get a little bit

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Speaker 2: of an insight for me whom I feel very very lucky,

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Speaker 2: very fortunate, very blessed. Like I think I have pretty

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Speaker 2: good genetics in the sense that I'm not predisposed to

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Speaker 2: depression or anxiety or which doesn't mean I never get

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Speaker 2: a bit flat or never get a bit anxious, but

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Speaker 2: for the most part. But even then, this little kind

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Speaker 2: of this little phase that I was going through. I

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Speaker 2: had this you know, infection in my sinuses which was

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Speaker 2: affecting everything including cognitive function and mood and a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of other stuff and energy and thirst and hunger

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Speaker 2: and all of these boxes that it ticked. I knew

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Speaker 2: that it was only for a little while, because I

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Speaker 2: kind of went from great to about shit in a week,

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Speaker 2: you know, But I thought, oh my god, this gives

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Speaker 2: me an insight into a tiny insight into what I

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Speaker 2: normally don't have real world experience myself. And yes, I've

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Speaker 2: worked with lots of people with mental health issues and

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Speaker 2: people with addiction issues, and people battling anxiety, depression, all

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Speaker 2: of these things. But when I started personally to feel

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Speaker 2: a little bit sad, a little bit disconnected, a little

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Speaker 2: bit anxious, I started to think about, what if this

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Speaker 2: is it? What if this doesn't get better in a

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Speaker 2: week or two, what if this is my you know,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't remember of things, like my brain was foggy,

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Speaker 2: that that sharpness and all of that stuff that's kind

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Speaker 2: of almost my tools of the trade, it was gone,

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Speaker 2: And I got a bit scared, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: hope that this is temporary, But it really gave me

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Speaker 2: another dimension of understanding and empathy and awareness around, you know,

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Speaker 2: like a tiny, tiny insight and I don't for one

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Speaker 2: moment pretend to truly understand the depth of deep, deep

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Speaker 2: depression and anxiety. But yeah, maybe it's just one of

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Speaker 2: those things that you have to have a bit of

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Speaker 2: it to really understand, I mean to truly personally on

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Speaker 2: a cellular level, understand it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not just an acessarliar level, because you

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Speaker 3: could pick up a book and read about the neurobiology

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Speaker 3: the psychology of mental illness and still not have the

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Speaker 3: willingness or to project yourself into someone else's situation that's

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Speaker 3: struggling with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I remember years ago, I was in my friend's

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Speaker 3: office and again I'm not going to say too much

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Speaker 3: because I don't want to give away who this person is,

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Speaker 3: but extraordinarily successful and built like one of the coolest

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Speaker 3: brands in this person's industry, and we were talking and

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Speaker 3: he was just grappling with this crushing level of depression,

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Speaker 3: like debilitating. And this is a this is a person

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Speaker 3: who is filled with charisma, creativity, works fifteen hours a day.

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Speaker 3: If you know who this person is, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people have admiration for who he appears to be on

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Speaker 3: the outside. And he was just saying there's nothing in

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Speaker 3: my life that's wrong. Yes, like, yeah, I want to

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Speaker 3: grow my business obviously, yeah, you know, I want to

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Speaker 3: be like a really good dad. But there's nothing I really.

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Speaker 2: Want right now.

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Speaker 3: It's like things are objectively going very very well, and

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Speaker 3: I am unable to even think or the slightest thing

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Speaker 3: feel so hard, like going for a walk to run

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Speaker 3: an errand feels like an impossibility right now. And there

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Speaker 3: are people that you know, periodically they live in that reality.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying, you know, we there are certain

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Speaker 3: things that we should enable with certain people, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: there's never a reason to abuse somebody or mistreat someone

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Speaker 3: because you're going through something. Or I remember at a

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Speaker 3: seminar not too long ago, somebody in the room, one

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Speaker 3: of the one of the facilitators had had made a

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Speaker 3: comment and someone's response was in an evol you know,

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Speaker 3: not everybody can make changes in their life. Some of

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Speaker 3: us are really struggling with mental health issues, and you know,

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Speaker 3: basically I'm not capable of doing anything. So when you

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Speaker 3: say that it's really insensitive, I'm like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 3: imagine what that feels like. You know, to be this person,

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Speaker 3: like everybody can do something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I like, I remember when I was in my last

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Speaker 3: year of out Here High school, right, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of people were well meaning telling me all the things

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Speaker 3: that they could do for me, like with job placement

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Speaker 3: and you know, free bus passes because I was handicapped,

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Speaker 3: or I had this thing that made life harder for me.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't. I didn't really feel that these people

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Speaker 3: endeared themselves to me. I had a lot of resentment.

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Speaker 3: And my not my first boss, but my boss, who

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Speaker 3: really was my first train transformative mentor was kind of like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you struggle with a lot of things, but if you

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Speaker 3: double down on the things that you're good at, your

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Speaker 3: strengths and you work really, really horrid on that, yeah

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Speaker 3: you could become more and you should. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: think that was insensitive. I thought that was the most

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Speaker 3: liberating and inspiring thing anyone had ever said to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, this person doesn't think I'm incapable.

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Speaker 2: This also capable of doing something. Yeah, but that dude

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Speaker 2: knows you, right. And so it's like, I've said to

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Speaker 2: you things over the years, and I love you, You're one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite people, but I've said things to you

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Speaker 2: in the moment that I know you fucking hate it,

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Speaker 2: and you probably hated me for a day or two.

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Speaker 2: And I've also probably gotten many things wrong with you

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Speaker 2: over our twenty five year class friendship, but you always knew.

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Speaker 2: I think that I want you to succeed. I want

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Speaker 2: the best for you, you know. And that's that unreasonable

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Speaker 2: friend bit. It's like everybody wants feedback until it's feedback

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Speaker 2: that I want, you know, And I think that surrounding

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Speaker 2: yourself with people who tell you perhaps what you want

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Speaker 2: to hear or what they think they should say, is

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Speaker 2: appropriate in this I get that, but it's really more

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Speaker 2: debilitating than it is empowering, because when someone goes, look Bobby,

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Speaker 2: I know you. I love you his By the way,

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Speaker 2: and I've said this to you personally and I've said

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Speaker 2: it publicly. You're one of the five smartest people that

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Speaker 2: I know. And I know many people, and people would

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Speaker 2: think I'd be enamored by PhDs and all these things.

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Speaker 2: I'm fucking not. I think. By the way, to get

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Speaker 2: a PhD, if you've got one, well done, great achievement.

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Speaker 2: But knowing you and knowing your journey and your story

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Speaker 2: and where you've come from and what you've dealt with

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Speaker 2: and while you're still flawed and you still have issues,

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Speaker 2: as do I, as does everybody, your capacity to just

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Speaker 2: keep fucking adapting and solving problems and figuring shit out

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Speaker 2: in the middle of all your fucking quirkiness is nothing

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Speaker 2: short of fucking astounding to me, because I know what's

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Speaker 2: behind the curtain, like most people see the front of

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Speaker 2: the curtain, you know, and it's not that it's a show,

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Speaker 2: but it's you doing you and you being the best

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Speaker 2: you out you know, in that public forum where you're

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Speaker 2: the teacher, the educator, the storyteller, you know, but away

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Speaker 2: from that version of you, where there's been lots of

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Speaker 2: stuff going on. Your capacity to be able to thrive

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Speaker 2: in the middle of what most people would capitulate, I

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Speaker 2: think many people like to me, that's that's very very

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Speaker 2: for me, very admirable. But I think also your ability

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Speaker 2: to surround yourself with people who have different kinds of

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Speaker 2: skills and knowledge to you. And because you are such

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Speaker 2: a great students, you're a far better student than I

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Speaker 2: have ever been. Because you absorb stuff, you read it,

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Speaker 2: remember it, you apply it. You learn from books, you

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Speaker 2: learn from research, you learn from science, you learn from

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Speaker 2: watching other humans, you know. So I don't know how

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Speaker 2: I got onto this, but I just think that that

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Speaker 2: capacity to be able.

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Speaker 3: To go.

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Speaker 2: Without self pity or self indulgence to go, yeah, my

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Speaker 2: childhoo was actually pretty shit. I had a lot of challenges,

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Speaker 2: but nonetheless, here I am, and so what can I

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Speaker 2: do now? And I think that you know, that combination

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Speaker 2: of being able to empathize with people and love people

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Speaker 2: and acknowledge that their life is shit or part of

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Speaker 2: it's as shit, parts of it are shit, or that

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you have been treated badly. You I

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Speaker 2: get that, I acknowledge it. I'm with you all the love,

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Speaker 2: all the sympathy. What are we going to do, though? Like,

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Speaker 2: what are we going to do? Though? We what action

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Speaker 2: are we going to take? What decision and are we're

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Speaker 2: going to make? Because I don't think you want to

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Speaker 2: spend the next fifteen years just swimming around in these

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Speaker 2: emotions and these fears and these anxieties about past event,

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Speaker 2: you know, And that's that's that line between compassion and practicality.

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Speaker 3: I think, first of all, thank you, I feel I

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Speaker 3: feel really seen by you. Not to make this all

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Speaker 3: warm and fuzzy, but thank you very much, you know.

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Speaker 3: And second, you have said things very directly yeah to

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Speaker 3: me yeah, or have told me to do something directly.

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Speaker 3: And it's not like I didn't like it. I just

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Speaker 3: didn't understand why I had I had to be completely

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Speaker 3: undressed to have that conversation or work on that project

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Speaker 3: with you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I thought it was just vulnerability.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, but you didn't explain that. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I would all right, fair enough. Other times I think.

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Speaker 2: Just when I think you're starting to get grown up

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Speaker 2: and be like a little bit profound, you just open

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Speaker 2: that door.

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Speaker 3: Just that's I hope I never grow up like Peter

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Speaker 3: Pan was right to a degree. To a degree, he

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Speaker 3: was also a tragedy, but that's not what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: And there's also times when you said something to me,

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Speaker 3: and what bothered me is I knew at some level

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Speaker 3: you were right and that that is very irritating, just

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Speaker 3: to let you know. But then I go in and

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Speaker 3: think about it. There have been times where I appreciated

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Speaker 3: the candor I just didn't think. I was like, Craig,

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Speaker 3: you don't have the context behind this. You think you do,

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Speaker 3: but you really don't. But like this morning at work,

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Speaker 3: so I had launched. I had launched an initiative in

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Speaker 3: my company with a group of people, and this morning

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Speaker 3: I was in a meeting with one of these people.

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Speaker 3: It was just just me and her, and she laid

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Speaker 3: into me about about this whole thing and a couple

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Speaker 3: of blind spots I had and how that impacted her.

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Speaker 3: I felt so much gratitude for her in the moment.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it strengthened our relationship because I have

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Speaker 3: had blind spots at work or I have not processed

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Speaker 3: things completely correctly, which happens. But she did something that

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Speaker 3: very few people in my work and personal life would

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Speaker 3: do tell me directly, and it wasn't a general thing

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Speaker 3: like well, I just think you're you know, you don't

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Speaker 3: think things through or you know, I think you're stupid. Great,

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Speaker 3: you might be right about that, But what do I

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Speaker 3: do with that? Like? What do you want to response with?

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Speaker 3: So here's exactly what happened. Here was the impact, and

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Speaker 3: here's why I'm upset. I'm like, oh, I can change,

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Speaker 3: I can't grow based on that information. I think that

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Speaker 3: in and of itself. Time back to what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: That's an act of empathy, Like she I think she

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Speaker 3: part of her was not only communicating her experience, but

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Speaker 3: she understood what my experience was. Is she knew what

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Speaker 3: my intentions were, so it wasn't an accusation. I think sometimes,

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Speaker 3: especially when we're we have all this messaging coming at

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Speaker 3: us and not a lot of us sitting with each other,

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Speaker 3: we really don't have the capacity to go what's it

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Speaker 3: like to be that other person? I think that I

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Speaker 3: think empathetic listening, not condoning, not approving of, not condemning,

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Speaker 3: but just listening with the intent. What did she say today? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: with the intent not to know, but to understand, Like

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Speaker 3: knowing is the enemy of understanding. I'm like, ah, wow,

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Speaker 3: that's smart. It was so genius the way she put

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Speaker 3: it to me, just to understand. I think so many

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Speaker 3: of our problems that we create for ourselves would, if

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Speaker 3: not disappear, be greatly diminished. But we really don't do that.

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Speaker 3: So you can you know, you could read ten books

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Speaker 3: on my bookshelf right now about the complexity of human

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Speaker 3: behavior or what goes wrong when someone's struggling with their

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Speaker 3: mental health. But does that give you the ability to

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Speaker 3: sit with someone and really try to understand rather than

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Speaker 3: arriving at a conclusion about why somebody does things the

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Speaker 3: way they do it, or don't do things that you

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Speaker 3: think they should be doing. I think that's about as

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Speaker 3: useful as trying to become an Olympic downhill skier by

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Speaker 3: reading books on the biomechanics and aerodynamics of skiing. You're

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Speaker 3: going to get on the black double diamond and die

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Speaker 3: it in no way prepares you. You've got to get

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Speaker 3: on the slopes if you have to sit with people,

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Speaker 3: even when it's uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: When you're talking before about your friend that you knew

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Speaker 2: that is super successful, you know, very accomplished. People knew him,

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Speaker 2: know him, look look up to him. It kind of

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Speaker 2: for me I was thinking about, like because when and

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Speaker 2: I'm generalizing here, this is not everybody, but I think

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Speaker 2: this is pretty representative of We grow up in a

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Speaker 2: kind of a a thought bubble or a culture that

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Speaker 2: says that success is about what everyone can see. You know,

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Speaker 2: what you have, what you earn, what you own, what

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Speaker 2: you drive, where you live, what people think you your brand,

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Speaker 2: your money, your business, your career, your stratospheric bloody rise,

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Speaker 2: you know all of that, your academic credibility, all that

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Speaker 2: stuff right, all the scene stuff. So and you know,

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Speaker 2: you can have your friend, and I've had lots of friends,

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Speaker 2: and there have been moments when I've been moderately successful,

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Speaker 2: I guess, and in the middle of my moderate success,

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Speaker 2: my situation is good, but my experience is shit. Like.

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Speaker 2: So there's this juxtaposition between a person's life situation, which

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Speaker 2: from the outside looking in is a Disney movie, it's

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Speaker 2: a Hollywood episode of something, but the experience for the individual.

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Speaker 2: So the inner world, you know, thoughts, feelings, emotions, joy, pain, pleasure, sadness, euphoria, disconnection, confusion,

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Speaker 2: like this internal world that we really live in versus

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Speaker 2: the external world that we kind of inhabit. You know that,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's that we base so much of what

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Speaker 2: we think is good or bad or successful or desirable

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Speaker 2: on what we see people doing. Oh look at her,

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Speaker 2: she's in great shape. He's in great shape. Her career

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Speaker 2: is flourishing. Oh she's all over this and that, or

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Speaker 2: he's making that, or he's built this business, or she's

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Speaker 2: built this brand, or she's in this incredible relationship. And

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Speaker 2: I understand all of that because that's part of the

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Speaker 2: human experience too, But nobody's looking across the room going

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Speaker 2: look at her. She looks really really calm. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: look anxious at all, Like, and I've spoken to her,

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Speaker 2: like she's just really she's not particularly ambitious, but fuck

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Speaker 2: she's happy. Huh. And she doesn't even have a to

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Speaker 2: do list. She's just calm, you know, she's just like

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Speaker 2: we aren't having those conversations because at least externally, we

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Speaker 2: don't seem to value what's got like let's say, emotional wealth,

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Speaker 2: spiritual wealth, social wealth, intellectual or not intellectual, but perhaps

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Speaker 2: mental wealth. You know, like all of these things which

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Speaker 2: really determine our human experience to a larger extent than

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Speaker 2: what the fuck we drive or where the fuck we live,

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Speaker 2: or what people think of our latest post on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Craig Harper, you know, like I think that that's that

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Speaker 2: we live in a mindset, or a collective mindset and

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Speaker 2: culture that is always looking at the external, if not

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Speaker 2: obsessed with the external while trying to Yeah we should

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Speaker 2: talk about mental health more, and yeah we should, but

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Speaker 2: it's it doesn't seem like that we really value it

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Speaker 2: until something goes wrong.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing. We do value it. We value it

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Speaker 3: when we're sick or someone we love is very sick.

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Speaker 3: We value it when we're on our deathbed. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the like the Five Top Regrets of the Dying that

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Speaker 3: was a beautiful and tragic book to read, but but

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Speaker 3: also hopeful, and we value it at a funeral, like

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Speaker 3: the stuff people talk about at funerals is the stuff

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Speaker 3: that really makes your life matter in the end. But

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Speaker 3: but then we go back to doing the It's almost

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Speaker 3: like somebody wrote us a playbook on how to be

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Speaker 3: miserable and struggle through self inflicted wounds, and we're following.

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Speaker 3: We're following that rule book to the t. And and

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Speaker 3: when we catch ourselves like getting off of it and

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Speaker 3: actually doing something that connects us to something we care

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Speaker 3: about as someone we care about, it's like, oh wait,

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Speaker 3: I got to get back to following this thing. But

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Speaker 3: the way we're told to live, so much of it

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Speaker 3: is making us sick. It's making us sick physically, it's

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Speaker 3: making us sick mentally. If something makes you sick, it's

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Speaker 3: out of harmony with nature. It's not a good philosophy.

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Speaker 3: Something that makes you well is in harmony with nature.

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Speaker 3: It's probably a good ideology that's producing those practices. I

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Speaker 3: mean that for me should be but I guess I'm

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Speaker 3: not smart enough all the time. But it should be

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Speaker 3: a litmus test. Is this thought I'm having, is this

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Speaker 3: thing I'm about to do? Is this exchange I'm having?

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Speaker 3: Is it making me well or is it making me sick?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes you're in sickening situations and you

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Speaker 3: got to deal with them. But what's the pattern? Is

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Speaker 3: this the same thing I was doing yesterday and the

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Speaker 3: day before that and the day before that having this thought.

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Speaker 3: I've just had conversations over the past week that have

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Speaker 3: been a massive punch in the face in a really

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Speaker 3: good way, Like it just snapped me out of something.

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Speaker 3: And when my head snapped back, I was able to

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Speaker 3: get a look at a different vantage point and go, oh,

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Speaker 3: my goodness, this is not accurate at all.

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Speaker 2: And I think zooming out from the micro of what

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling and what's going on in this moment. Like

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Speaker 2: just to like a question for all of our listeners,

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Speaker 2: I would go, here's just a question to think about

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Speaker 2: what's going great in my life and what's not going great?

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Speaker 2: Like what am I currently doing that doesn't work? Like,

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Speaker 2: don't overthink that, just brainstorm write that on a bit

389
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Speaker 2: of paper. What am I currently doing that doesn't work?

390
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Speaker 2: Am I moving in the direction I want to move in?

391
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Speaker 2: No judgment, no hate, no self flow, just trying to

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Speaker 2: open the awareness s dooor like, if I continue on

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Speaker 2: my current trajectory with my career, with my habits, my behaviors,

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Speaker 2: my health, my lifestyle, if I kind of stay on

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Speaker 2: the path I'm on in two years, am I going

396
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Speaker 2: to be better or worse? Like if I'm being real

397
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Speaker 2: big and brave putting on my big boy pants in

398
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Speaker 2: two years, if I stay on my current trajectory with

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Speaker 2: those things, will my life be better or worse? And

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Speaker 2: then if the answer is better, we'll fucking giddy up,

401
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: keep going, well done, see you next episode. If it's not,

402
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Speaker 2: that's cool, then try to break that down a little bit.

403
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Speaker 2: What am I currently doing which is essentially a form

404
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Speaker 2: of self sabotage? What am I currently doing which is

405
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: a form of wasting my own talent and potential? What

406
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: am I doing that is counterproductive to who and how

407
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Speaker 2: I want to be? I think these are more global questions,

408
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: and then we can kind of hone in, you know,

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Speaker 2: and go, well, you know, I guess a very very

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Speaker 2: obvious one is I look at a screen fucking ten

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Speaker 2: hours a day. Now, some of that is unavoidable, but

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Speaker 2: how much how many hours a day do you look

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Speaker 2: at a screen where you probably don't have to? And

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Speaker 2: I know this is probably over talked about, but or

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Speaker 2: it might be, how many hours a day do you

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Speaker 2: spend sitting again, not self loathing, your self awareness? Cool?

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Speaker 2: Well could you walk? Could you walk and work? Could

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Speaker 2: you stand and work a little bit? Could you? Like?

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Speaker 2: What a Let's try and solve a few problems. Let's

420
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Speaker 2: not wake up in a minute and go, oh fuck,

421
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Speaker 2: it's five years. It's five years since I heard Craig

422
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Speaker 2: and Bobby on that podcast. It's five years and I'm

423
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Speaker 2: doing the same dumb shit, but I'm producing worse results. Like,

424
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Speaker 2: at some stage we need to get fucking proactive and

425
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Speaker 2: intentional and step out of the theory of the podcast

426
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Speaker 2: and the idea and the workshop and the book and

427
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Speaker 2: the fucking research and we need to go, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing it now. I'm doing something. It might not be optimal,

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Speaker 2: but I'll figure it out as I go, because this

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Speaker 2: is the For me, the ever present challenge has always

431
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 2: been not what do I know? But what do I

432
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: do with what? I know, and what am I producing

433
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: with that activity, with that action, Because I think there

434
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: comes a point where even you know, you could have

435
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: the best podcaster in the world, you could have the

436
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 2: best corporate speaker, or the best author, all the best

437
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 2: you know, but if all the people that are hearing, listening,

438
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: watching reading are not doing something constructive with that, assuming

439
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: that everyone who listens to this wants to change something,

440
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: then we're just fucking We're just bouncing sounds off the

441
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 2: wall and living in a holding pattern.

442
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: This is gonna be very This is very interesting what

443
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: you're saying. I don't know if you're experiencing this shift

444
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: in the organizations that you work with, but I know

445
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: if you were to name three top requests that they

446
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: get in the organizations I work with, it is burnout. Yeah,

447
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: managing stress and resilience more than anything else. Now, how

448
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: that shows up and what's causing that, and what are

449
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: deliverables and our strategy is in response that. That's that's

450
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: very different. That's a case by case thing, but the

451
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: requests are always coming around those three, like eighty percent

452
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: of the time. So I was at a coaching course

453
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: and I was sitting down with a friend and colleague

454
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: of mine, and he's a doctor at Yale University and

455
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: he leads and develops trains teams of doctors. And he

456
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: was saying that you know, in the medical field, burnout

457
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: is it's catastrophic, and it's increasing steadily. And he said

458
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: that you would think it's the physicians that have been

459
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 3: practicing for decades that are experiencing the most amount of

460
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 3: burnout because they've been at it longer, they've been dealing

461
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: with this stuff longer, but it's not. It's brand new

462
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 3: physicians are at much of a risk of this and

463
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: they're reporting mptoms of burnout as much as anybody else.

464
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 3: They said that two things that he's noticed that isn't

465
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: a not saying causes it, but exacerbates burnout is the inability,

466
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: as he put it, to look out into the horizon,

467
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: so to see something being better off in a future date.

468
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: And the second thing is lack of agency. It is

469
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: this sense of learned helplessness that no matter how hard

470
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 3: I work, no matter how many difficult conversations I have,

471
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 3: no matter what I advocate for who I advocate for,

472
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: things are just not going to get better here. And

473
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: one of the things that we Deliver on burnout is

474
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: a workshops in training around habit development and behavior change.

475
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: Now why that's like, how is developing a habit gonna

476
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: help me with burnout? I mean, there's a lot of

477
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: complexity around it, but this particular workshop works because if

478
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: you were if you were trying to develop a habit,

479
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: there's something out there in the future that is divorced

480
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: from everything I'm struggling with today that you're conceptualizing can

481
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: be better. Otherwise, why would I do the work of

482
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: developing a habit and I want it to be better?

483
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm getting clear about why I want it to be better.

484
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: And when you're executing on developing a habit, you are

485
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: exercising agency in the moment around something that is that

486
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: bridge to where you are and a point in time

487
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: in the future where things are better. So it's the

488
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: visualization of something that's important to you and how it

489
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 3: shows up in the future. And it's the daily exercise

490
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: of agency. So that really matters. Like what you're saying,

491
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: get out and do something, and it doesn't have to

492
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: be a lot. I got to accomplish this big thing.

493
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 3: Let me just do something different. What is it they

494
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: can do? An action that they could take that will

495
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: observably move the needle on my life that is so

496
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: important to kind of combat learned helplessness.

497
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, fuels.

498
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: The read it which we experience burnout.

499
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I mean at the end of the day,

500
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: you know, you do a lot of corporate stuff. I

501
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: do a lot of corporate stuff and had a really

502
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: interesting conversation. Somebody reached out to me yesterday and it

503
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: doesn't normally work like this, but it came through a messenger,

504
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: and I don't normally respond to those things much because

505
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: if somebody wants to talk about me doing some corporate work,

506
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: it goes anyway through Melissa, and it goes through the website,

507
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: and it goes through this back and anyway. This lady,

508
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: when I'm not sure how it works and where do

509
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: I reach out I want to talk to you about

510
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: or I want to talk about the possibility of anyway,

511
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: I said, well, I'm here, you got me, So it

512
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: normally doesn't work this way, but do you want to

513
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: have a ten minute phone call or zoom call? And

514
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: I said, and she went yep, So we jumped on zoom.

515
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: So it was quite unorganized, quite impromptu. Anyway, lovely lady.

516
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: I won't mention who or what, but very big company,

517
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: like very big company. So it was quite weird that

518
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: it was such a casual kind of opening of the door.

519
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: Normally it would be a lot more kind of official

520
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: and efficient and whatever. Anyway, we're having this chat and

521
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: she was talking about the issues and obviously no one

522
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: knows who this lady is or the organization, so it

523
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But just a lot of stuff, a lot

524
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: of in house. They've had lots of change and lots

525
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: of pain and so there's let's just say, the stuff

526
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: that you've been talking about, but also a fair bit

527
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: of discontent and the culture has probably taken a bit

528
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: of a left turn where it's not as great as

529
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: it was, and there's a fair bit of work to

530
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: be done, like nothing that's insurmountable, but stuff to be done. Anyway,

531
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: said to me, like we've got this thing in November.

532
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: I was thinking about bringing you in to do you know,

533
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: one or two hour of this or that, and I said, okay,

534
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: one and this is after I'd like, there's a lot

535
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: more to it than what I've shared, but there's a

536
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: fair bit going on that ain't going to be fixed

537
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: in an hour or even a day, or probably even

538
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: a month, right, And I said, okay, so certainly I

539
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: can come in. I can do a one hour keynote,

540
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: or I can do a two hour short workshop, and

541
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: I can go, Biby Bobby Boo, charge you a whole

542
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: bunch of money, and it'll be pretty good and they'll

543
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: probably like it, and I'll get well paid and you'll go.

544
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: He came, and he did his job. I go. But truly,

545
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: there is not a speaker in the world that you

546
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: can bring in that can talk for one or two

547
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: hours that's going to completely reinvent the culture in your organization.

548
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: And we're talking about now, whether it's me or someone else.

549
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: I said, So what I can do is I can

550
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: do that, and we can just open the conversation and

551
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: try to keep people on side and create a good

552
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: experience and then talk about you know, this this is

553
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: an ongoing and whether it's with somebody else or whether

554
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: it's with another team or whether it's with me, I

555
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: don't care. I'm not trying to sell you anything, but

556
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: these are things that you know, if there's a significant problem,

557
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: we can't wheel someone in and go, look, here's the problem.

558
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: This is how we fix it. I'm Craig harpas you

559
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: next time, and some of these things just need to

560
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: be worked through in an ongoing way where we need

561
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: to keep coming back and going. You know, what's working here?

562
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: What's not working? Like, what are the key problems and

563
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: issues that we're having, what's the origin story of that?

564
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: And this is the you know, whether or not it's

565
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: professional development, personal development, self help, behavior or psychology coming

566
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: in the form of a podcast with you and me,

567
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: or it's through a program provided by some providers. In

568
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: the corporate space, there is no magic fucking pill. And

569
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: this is the problem is that people love selling and

570
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: buying magic pills in inverted commas. But the truth is

571
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: that real change, like inside out corporate organizational change, individual

572
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: personal change, it's just something that we've got to just

573
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: keep chipping away at. I mean, how long have you

574
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: been in the space and you're still working on you.

575
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: I'm still working on me. I think I'm better at

576
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: many things than I was. I still think I have

577
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: a long way to go on many other things. But

578
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: this is the thing is that it's like theory is great,

579
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: knowledge is great, understanding awareness is great. But until we

580
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: are consistently doing something with that, we're going to keep

581
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: inhabiting a space, be that financially, practically, personally, professionally, emotionally,

582
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: physiologically that we don't want to be in because all

583
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 2: we do is fucking listen to stuff and read stuff,

584
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: but we're not consistently working through it.

585
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: So something happened to me. Nothing happened to me. It

586
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 3: was a conversation I had that was a little bit

587
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: dramatic leading that was another meeting, not like I just

588
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: want to hash out my entire work day on the podcast.

589
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: I don't think too many people are interested in that,

590
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: but it's relevant. So I was talking to one of

591
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: my colleagues and a different colleague, and she had said

592
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: that an organization she was speaking to was concerned because

593
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: bullying is becoming quite an issue in some communities, which

594
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: is not new, but they were concerned about it. And

595
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: you know, she was asking me if I would be

596
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 3: able to help out.

597
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 2: In any way.

598
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: Now, obviously you know I'm not a psychologist, but where

599
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: I did feel that I could have input was as

600
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: someone who has gone through it. And I think if

601
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: you're if you're talking to staff, and especially if you're

602
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: talking to kids. It's not like, oh, here's my theory

603
00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: on bullying versus you know, I've been where you are today. Yeah,

604
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: my bullying was quite severe. I mean as a kid

605
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: growing up in like Coney Island, Brooklyn, you know Tourette's

606
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: disfigured face. My clothes were old by a couple of years,

607
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: so they didn't fit me very well. Yeah, there was

608
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 3: a lot of material there. And it's not just that

609
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 3: I want to help them, which I really do. This

610
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 3: is something that I feel serious about, but it helps

611
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 3: me as well because when we're talking about getting moving

612
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: and using what you're learning and taking action. When it's like, okay,

613
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 3: how can I use this, your story goes from oh,

614
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: all this kind of stuff happened to me to contradict

615
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 3: something I said earlier, So get ready that there's a

616
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: contradiction coming, Yes, but it changes it to this laid

617
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: the foundations for me being able to do something or

618
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 3: somebody that I probably wouldn't have known was a problem

619
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: or I wouldn't have been able to do to the

620
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 3: same degree had it not happen. So this has developed

621
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: me into pursuing this purpose. So I'm not a victim.

622
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: At the other end of it I was shaped as

623
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: a result of it, which I personally feel is so

624
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: much more empowering. And when it's like, Okay, what am

625
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: I reading? What seminars am I going to? Why? Like

626
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 3: why am I doing this? Versus going to a culinary

627
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: workshop to learn how to bake a cake? People love cakes?

628
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: Why don't I do that? Because obviously there's something that's

629
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: resonant here, there's something I value. So using it, even

630
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 3: utilizing these tools imperfectly, I think, allows us to change

631
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: our internal narrative and our story about what has happened

632
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: versus who we are and who we're becoming. You know,

633
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,479
Speaker 3: I mean looking back for less is great and trying

634
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: to extrapolate them. But if we spend more time looking

635
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 3: in the rear of your mirror, I know I've been

636
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: guilty of this than looking what's in front of us,

637
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: We're probably going to crash. That's dangerous. So a lot

638
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: of stuff that you're saying, I think is not only

639
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: important for our growth and development and whatever quote unquote

640
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: success how that shows up, I think it's really important

641
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: for the experience we have being us day to day.

642
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: And I think the beauty of your journey, right is

643
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: that when you talk about bullying, when you talk about

644
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: being marginalized, when you talk about dealing with adversity of adversity,

645
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: when you talk about being the outcast, and all of

646
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: those things, you are literally speaking experientially. You are speaking

647
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: from a place of I actually not your version, but

648
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: I've had my own version of this. So this is

649
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: It's like when I talk about childhood obesity to people like, go,

650
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: I'm not talking as an excise scientist. I'm talking as

651
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: an ex fat kid who had a pretty hard fucking time.

652
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 2: So yeah, I can talk to you about, you know,

653
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: kind of the science of whatever, but I can also

654
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: talk to you as a person who just went through

655
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: what your kid's going through, or a version of what

656
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: your kid's going through. And I think that, you know,

657
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 2: it's like people with addiction issues tend to gravitate towards

658
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: people who were clean and sober who had an addiction issue.

659
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: They're going to listen to them more than they're going

660
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: to listen to me, because what the fuck do I know?

661
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: Because I've never had a beer, and I couldn't understand

662
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: and I understand that perspective. You know, if I want

663
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 2: to train for one hundred mile race, not that I do,

664
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: but I would rather work with someone that's done one

665
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: hundred mile race than an excise physiologist who theoretically understands

666
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: the hundred mile race but has never run more than

667
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: five miles. Like, let me go work with that girl

668
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 2: or that guy who's done the race, who's been through

669
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: the psychological, mental, physical bullshit, who's been to the fucking

670
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 2: wall and back. I want to talk to them because

671
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: I want to understand what they understand, or I at

672
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: least want to benefit from their understanding. Versus Brian, who

673
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: God blessed Brian. But all Brian does is bench press

674
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: and fucking you know, squat but he's never but he

675
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: doesn't run, but he's technically qualified, you know. So I

676
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: think there's something to be said for both, you know,

677
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: the intersection of scientific knowledge and understanding storytelling and also

678
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: real world experience so that you can you can share

679
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: from a place that a lot of people cannot share from.

680
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't have the insight and do not

681
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: have the insight into a lot of things that you

682
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: do because I haven't been where you've been, you know.

683
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: So I would defer to you. I would go I

684
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: could give you my thoughts, but they're just my thoughts.

685
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: But you can talk to Bobby. You're going to get thoughts, insights,

686
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: and real world experience. So go there. And I think

687
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: that's what compels many people who like, how many people

688
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: do you and I know who were not in good

689
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: shape then they got in good shape, then they became

690
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: a trainer, or people who battled psychological stuff and then

691
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: went to UNI and studied psychology. You know, it's like

692
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 2: it's very, very common that there's an origin story that

693
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 2: kind of explains quite clearly why people are doing what

694
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: they're doing now, and it's not because that just happened

695
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: to be the course they got into, you know. So

696
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: I think that real world awareness and emotion and that

697
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 2: journey that you've been on, I think in many ways

698
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: that's more empowering than necessarily the dude or the lady

699
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: who's a psychologist talking about the theory of something.

700
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think you said it earlier. Both

701
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 3: absolutely matter. Like I want to run a marathon and

702
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: I know a physiologist who's willing to work with me

703
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: on that training program. That physiologist is exceedingly valuable, but

704
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: where their expertise ends is mile nineteen when I have

705
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 3: here a psychological and physical wall and my body is

706
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: just not responding. I just cannot move. What do you

707
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: do in that situation? How do I finish that race?

708
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: That is not something the physiologists can get you through.

709
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: You need someone who.

710
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: Has been there at that point, Yes, and finish and

711
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: finished that matter. Yes, that's what you need. I think

712
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: that's where you know people's stories matter, and you know

713
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: everybody's got something. And the more we can utilize, you know,

714
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: something that has happened to us to lift up somebody else,

715
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 3: I think the better will be not to mention the

716
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 3: world because I think a lot of people are struggling,

717
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 3: and I don't know if they don't care because they're struggling,

718
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: or they're struggling because they simply do not care. Because

719
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: the truth of the matter is the majority of people

720
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 3: do not give a toss what you're going through or

721
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: what happened to you or your trauma. They might say

722
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: they do, and you'll see this where people are so

723
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: invested in caring empathetically for people who they will never

724
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 3: meet and they don't know their name, but when somebody

725
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,959
Speaker 3: very close to them is struggling with that, they don't

726
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: have the same level of empathy.

727
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: That's interesting.

728
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 3: The scientific term for that is full of shit. But yeah,

729
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: if we care in even very small ways, you're not

730
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: not saving the world, but really showing up for people.

731
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 3: And like I have read comments where because we've discussed this,

732
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 3: I've been very open about this. I watch a lot

733
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: of cat videos. I miss my cats. I haven't seen them,

734
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: I do. I do watch cat videos. I have seen

735
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: people say the the worst things to each other on

736
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: the internet over do you prefer cats or dogs?

737
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all the things that.

738
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 3: We divide over when we consider somebody else to be

739
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: the quote unquote other, like like even something like a

740
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: cat versus a dog, people become vile And you got

741
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 3: to ask yourself, Wow, what is it like to be

742
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: this person who just said all of those seriously disgusting

743
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: things over nothing? Because somebody you know likes cats more

744
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: than dogs, or you know they prefer persian over a

745
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: domestic short hair, that person's life sucks. You can tell

746
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: me how happy you were what I said.

747
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: Do you know why too much about cats? But I

748
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: ain't about cats or dogs. It's about the person. It's

749
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: it's about what is underneath that.

750
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, versus someone who is empathetic and does really care,

751
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 3: not overly empathetic to where you know, I'm struggling with

752
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 3: my emotional state and I can't act compassionately in any degree.

753
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: But I think when you care, you're a beneficial area.

754
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's another conversation that will have another day.

755
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: But that is how do I say this without being Okay?

756
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: So I know a few people, and I've known a

757
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: few people. I'll give you one without I don't think

758
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: anyone from this time in my life listens to this

759
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: because it's way too inappropriate for them. But I used

760
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: to know a guy quite well, his dad, or he

761
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: was one of my mates. His dad was a preacher, pastor,

762
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: and his dad was so loving, so compassionate, so amazing

763
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: with everyone in his church, but complete shit with his

764
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: own children. Like he was like the neglectful, unavailable dad

765
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: to his own kids, but to everyone else he was this,

766
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what is that about? Like, and he

767
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 2: was genuinely what seemed to be genuinely kind and compassionate

768
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: for his flock, but to his own kids like donuts,

769
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is that about? What is that about?

770
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: The unavailable dad? Who's available to everyone except his own

771
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: actual family. And yeah, I struggled with that, dude. I

772
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: still don't really like that. Dude. I probably should, but yeah,

773
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 2: that's a thing too, Like I think people like pak,

774
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 2: yeah there is Hey, you.

775
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 3: Think, well, what do you think people like? You just

776
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: say people like and I cut you off rudely, just

777
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: rudely jumped in there.

778
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 2: Ah right, Sorry, I feel like I've just had four

779
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: beers and I'm trying to catch up and I've never

780
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: had a beer. Well, I think people like being seen

781
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: to be the guy or the girl that's this or that.

782
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, look at me, I'm the caring, loving

783
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: and it's almost like a brand. It's almost like a persona.

784
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: He's the loving pastor and by the way, most most

785
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: that I've met are pretty real deal, by the way,

786
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 2: but yeah, like, from the outside looking in, this is that.

787
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: But behind closed doors, he treated his kids like shit.

788
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: And I know because I was there and one of

789
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: his kids was one of my mates. And I'm like,

790
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: fucking hell, you're like two people. If the people at

791
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: church saw this, you you wouldn't have a church.

792
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 3: So I was about to say, you know, I don't

793
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: know who this guy is and I don't know why,

794
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: and I'm not calling him a narcissist, and I'm not I.

795
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 2: Think definitely doesn't sound like it.

796
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 3: Narcissists. That's a word. That's a label that is used

797
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 3: far too often, and it's and sometimes it's used by

798
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 3: people who just happened to bump into a lot of narcissists.

799
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 3: A little a little bit of introspection might be necessary there,

800
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 3: but we we hear it and we see it all

801
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: too often. Where somebody wants to be praised, somebody wants

802
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: to be admired so outwardly, they're charming, they're lovely, they're

803
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: just the sweetest, kindest person. But with certain people that

804
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: they don't require their admiration, well, there's nothing that person

805
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 3: can do for them. They are absolutely brutal. Yeah, And

806
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: and things happen to their relationships that are very unusual

807
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 3: and and very tragic, and they have a very different explanation.

808
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 3: It's never them, it's always someone else. So I think

809
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: that's something we need to like. That's something that's curious

810
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: with people where the people that are closest to you

811
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: and you're supposed to love and you abuse them. But

812
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 3: to everybody else on the outside superficially you're amazing. Maybe not.

813
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: I think also like a little bit of self awareness

814
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: will finish on this. But for me, I have to

815
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: be I'm I think about that guy sometimes and then

816
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: I think, am I a version of that? Am I?

817
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: Am I? Am I the on the podcast? Am I?

818
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: The positive? Am I? This? Am I? That? Then away

819
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: from and I try, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure

820
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: there is some disparity sometimes, but I tried very hard

821
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: not to be a version of that. I mean, I

822
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: think because I had that role model with an asterisk

823
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: next to it, it just gave me a level of

824
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: awareness around, oh this is so I so don't want

825
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: to be that dude, because because I saw a side

826
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: of him that most of his you know, parishioners or

827
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: you know, congregants never saw, which was like so diametrically

828
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 2: opposed to what people thought. So anyway, that's enough. Hey,

829
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: let's let's do better, shall we? All of us? Bobby?

830
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: Where can people find you? Follow you, connect with you

831
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: other than the You project once a week or thereabouts.

832
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: The self help antidote dot com, Robert Capuccio dot com, LinkedIn.

833
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: I have a question for you, just before we go,

834
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: somebody asked me, does like where where does Bobby live?

835
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: So they probably didn't listen too hard, but I said,

836
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: and I think they thought you traveled a fair bit,

837
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 2: which he does. If people want to work with you, companies,

838
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: even Australian companies, you can work with them on Zoom, right,

839
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 2: so you can do Yeah.

840
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm, I'm, I'm I'm becoming fully acclimated to

841
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: the twenty first century. Finally, I'm very zoom proficient.

842
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: Speaks for me.

843
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe very, maybe very is an embellishment, but yes,

844
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 3: I'm zoom proficient. I do a lot of work on zoom.

845
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 2: Let's go somewhat super proficient.

846
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: Alright, mate, I'll see you next week, buddy, Bye mate,

847
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 3: Bye everyone,