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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we

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Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson. This week, Brent Smart, the chief marketing

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Speaker 1: officer at Telstra, announced his stepping down from the telco

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Speaker 1: after four years in the job. During that time, Telstra's

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Speaker 1: campaigns have won a number of awards, with Telstra now

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Speaker 1: recognized as one of these strongest brands in Australia and

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Speaker 1: one of the top telco brands globally. Two years ago,

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Speaker 1: Brent Smart joined Sean Aylmer on Fear and Greed to

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Speaker 1: talk about what it was like to be the steward

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Speaker 1: of a brand like Telstra and to be tasked with

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Speaker 1: transforming it without damaging the legacy. It is quite a

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Speaker 1: fine line to walk. I hope you enjoy this chat

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Speaker 1: from April twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylman.

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Speaker 2: When you think of Australia's most recognizable brands, a few

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Speaker 2: household names come to mind, Quantz, Wilworths, maybe Bunning's even

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Speaker 2: and of course Telstra. The telco is the country's most

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Speaker 2: widely held stock with well over a million shareholders, and

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Speaker 2: those shareholders would have been happy lately, with the share

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Speaker 2: price hitting its highest point in years. Investors like the

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Speaker 2: fact that the rollout and integration of the national broadband

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Speaker 2: network is now complete. Telstra isn't struggling against that structural headwind.

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Speaker 2: So as the telco enters this new era, what are

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Speaker 2: its priorities and how does it convey these to the

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Speaker 2: shareholders and the Australian public More broadly. Brent Smart is

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Speaker 2: the chief marketing officer at Telstra. Brent, welcome to Fear

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Speaker 2: and Greed.

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Speaker 3: Hi guys, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: So you took the job on last September. September, This

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Speaker 2: has to be one of the biggest jobs in marketing

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Speaker 2: surely Telstra.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's fairly large. It's a big brand, it's a

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Speaker 3: big business, it's a big marketing team, and you know,

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Speaker 3: there are lots of opportunities. I always say it's a

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Speaker 3: big creative canvas. You know, there's just so many opportunities

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Speaker 3: to do interesting things with the brand. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: exciting to be on board.

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Speaker 2: How do you get your head around all the different

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Speaker 2: aspects of the company and then prioritize where it might

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Speaker 2: be spend, it might be resourcing. That type of thing

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Speaker 2: comes from.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely. You know, you need to understand the

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Speaker 3: category and the business and frankly, the acronyms, there's plenty

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Speaker 3: of them in telcos. But ultimately, you know, as a marketer,

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Speaker 3: you're always trying to find a simple way of communicating

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Speaker 3: things to the consumer. So that's always part of your process. Right,

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Speaker 3: how can I reduce this down? How can I find

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Speaker 3: the insight here? How can I find a simple idea

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Speaker 3: that really communicates, Because you know, we're all going about

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Speaker 3: our busy lives and the first job is how do

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Speaker 3: I get someone's attention? And then the second job becomes

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Speaker 3: how do I explain this to them? How do I

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Speaker 3: convince them? But that's a second job, right. The first

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Speaker 3: job is got to get their attention and got to

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Speaker 3: get them to remember something. So ultimately you've got to

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Speaker 3: find a way to really simplify it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Now I'm not a marketer in any sense whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: So you're talking about brand and recognition is that first step.

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Speaker 2: So everyone would know tells through the brand, not everyone,

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Speaker 2: but you know, ninety nine percent of the population wouldn't

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Speaker 2: know tell the brand, how do you get them to

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Speaker 2: act on it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's been a lot of you know, we

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Speaker 3: call it marketing science that's happened over the years. And

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Speaker 3: what's really important for any brand is this concept of

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Speaker 3: mental availability. So what that means is when I think

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Speaker 3: of a certain category or product, I think of your

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Speaker 3: brand first. So you might have really good awareness, but

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Speaker 3: it's how you convert that awareness to something stronger, which

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Speaker 3: is as I said this, I did mental availability, and

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Speaker 3: that's about creating positive memories. It's about creating emotional connection,

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Speaker 3: all things that sort of happen in the subconscious that

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Speaker 3: we don't really think about rationally. But then when we

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Speaker 3: actually do come to a purchase situation, we're able to

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Speaker 3: draw on those memories and draw on those emotional feelings

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Speaker 3: towards the brand, and it does influence us in a

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Speaker 3: big way. It's just happening in the subconscious, and what

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Speaker 3: we tend to do as consumers is we tend to

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Speaker 3: rationalize those purchases and make it feel like a much

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Speaker 3: more rational process than it really is. So the power

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Speaker 3: of memories, the power of emotions, it sounds a bit flaky,

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Speaker 3: but it's actually incredibly powerful for brands.

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Speaker 2: With One of the taglines I think was one of

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Speaker 2: your first commercials that you released at CMO was the

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Speaker 2: Secured by Telstra line that's all about cybersecurity and the

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Speaker 2: need to protect that. That's an example, I presume, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I think what's.

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Speaker 3: Interesting with that commercially, Yes, that was my first commercial

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Speaker 3: at Telstra, so that was a pretty big deal for me.

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Speaker 3: But what I think is about that one is we

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Speaker 3: found a metaphor to talk about cybersecurity. And it comes

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Speaker 3: out to the point of made earlier that we're looking

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Speaker 3: for simple, visual, powerful ways to kind of talk about

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Speaker 3: what can be pretty complicated topics like cybersecurity. So we

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Speaker 3: come up with that metaphor of this sort of security convoy, humbes, SUVs,

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Speaker 3: even helicopters all protecting not a presidential you know, cavalcade

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Speaker 3: like you might expect, but protecting just your average family

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Speaker 3: suv being the metaphor for how much effort, how much investment,

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Speaker 3: and how much technology Telstra puts into protecting its customers.

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Speaker 3: And it was something that really impressed when I joined

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Speaker 3: the company. It's something we take very seriously and just

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Speaker 3: really wanted to come up with a way to communicate

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Speaker 3: that that was really powerful. But ultimately, when you are

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Speaker 3: talking about a topic like cybersecurity, it's really important that

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Speaker 3: the customer understands that they also have to do some

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Speaker 3: work themselves to be protected. Right Like we can't protect everyone,

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Speaker 3: they also need to do a little bit of work

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Speaker 3: in terms of you think about their passwords, thing about

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Speaker 3: how they can protect themselves as well. So it's really

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Speaker 3: about starting a conversation, getting some awareness going, and ultimately

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Speaker 3: getting people to take the steps they need to to

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Speaker 3: be more protected.

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Speaker 2: Stay with me, Brent, We'll be back in a minute.

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Speaker 2: I guess this morning is Brent Smart, Chief marketing officer

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Speaker 2: at Telstra. When you have a big ship like Telstra,

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Speaker 2: and particularly one that has been through an enormous change,

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Speaker 2: structural change in terms of your former CEO, what he

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Speaker 2: did around jobs and things like that, the NBN rollout,

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Speaker 2: which is now complete, is it difficult to change the

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Speaker 2: world's view of Telstra? Though, because right now you probably

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Speaker 2: do well according to investment analysts, you have some clear

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Speaker 2: air in front, hopefully for the company and hopefully for shareholders.

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Speaker 2: That's the case. Is it hard thea to change people's perception?

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Speaker 3: It definitely means you have some entrenched perceptions because Telsha's

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Speaker 3: been around for a long time. You know, Telsha has

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Speaker 3: had many customers who are now non customers, you know,

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Speaker 3: because for different reasons they've left or whatever. So there

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Speaker 3: are quite strong entrenched perceptions of the brand which are

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Speaker 3: harder to move than say a brand new brand which

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Speaker 3: doesn't have any perceptions whatsoever. But the flip side is

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Speaker 3: there's an enormous advantage to being big. So again drawing

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Speaker 3: on marketing science and some of the research has been done.

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Speaker 3: If you look at what is the biggest multiplier of

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Speaker 3: ROI and marketing, it's the size of the brand. It

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Speaker 3: just gives you such an advantage in terms of being remembered,

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Speaker 3: in terms of being trusted. Brand size is massive. So

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Speaker 3: there's a big advantage in being sort of big, established,

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Speaker 3: But there's also that downside that you also have a

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Speaker 3: bunch of really entrenched views. A lot of people have

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Speaker 3: made up their minds about your brand, and that is

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Speaker 3: definitely hard to move. But you know, it's something that

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Speaker 3: we're working on and you know, we want to have

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Speaker 3: a very strong brand reputation at Telsha. We want to

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Speaker 3: be one of the top brands in the country. When

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Speaker 3: it comes to brand reputation, that's something we're working really

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Speaker 3: hard on at the moment.

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Speaker 2: How do you work out where to spend your money?

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Speaker 2: And I know that's kind of a very complex question,

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Speaker 2: but for our listeners, given the shift in consumption and

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Speaker 2: how people view things, see things, consume media, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: how do you work all that out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, it is incredibly scientific. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: data that goes into it, and we certainly rely on

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Speaker 3: our media agencies who are absolute experts in it. But

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Speaker 3: two real principles that I tend to think about. The

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Speaker 3: first one is you need to have a balance between

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Speaker 3: the long term marketing effects on the short term. So

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Speaker 3: the short term is pretty simple, right, if you're on

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Speaker 3: the market right now for a phone, you know, we

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Speaker 3: want to make sure that we get a message in

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Speaker 3: front of you at the right time and you know,

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Speaker 3: increase the chances that we will convert that demand that

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Speaker 3: you have right now. Right, that's a short term marketing

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Speaker 3: impact and that's super important. But what you're also need

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Speaker 3: to think about is in any category, but particularly a

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Speaker 3: category like telcos, people aren't shopping every single day for

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Speaker 3: a new phone or for a new home Internet service,

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Speaker 3: and what we want to try and do to maximize

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Speaker 3: the impact of our marketing is also be doing some

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Speaker 3: long term marketing that builds future demands. So in other words,

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Speaker 3: people aren't in the market today, but they're going to

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Speaker 3: be in the market sometime next month, three months, a year,

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Speaker 3: who knows when, and we want to be talking to

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Speaker 3: them in a way that our brand connects with them

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Speaker 3: and our brand is more likely to be chosen by

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Speaker 3: then when they do get in market. And that's the

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Speaker 3: real art of budgeting and media planning is how do

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Speaker 3: I get the balance up between the short term, immediate

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Speaker 3: you know, affects I want to drive versus the longer

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Speaker 3: term brand building which creates that future demand and creates

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Speaker 3: that long term growth. So that's the first thing, getting

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Speaker 3: the balance up between those. And then the second change,

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Speaker 3: as you rightly said, and you know in the question,

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Speaker 3: it's harder to buy reach than ever. People are harder

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Speaker 3: to reach that media is really fragmented, So you really

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Speaker 3: need a screen strategy, which isn't just about television, but

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Speaker 3: it's about BVD, streaming, digital, all these other ways that

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Speaker 3: we can now reach the consumer. And you really need

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Speaker 3: to think about how you're building reach across multiple screens

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Speaker 3: because you can't just buy TV ad like you used to.

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Speaker 2: Is it easier or harder to reach people now than

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago? Based on what you just said, then.

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Speaker 3: Harder, But it's also incredibly exciting because there are so

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Speaker 3: many new and different platforms and ways we can reach them.

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Speaker 3: So like in terms of sort of innovation, it's incredibly exciting,

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Speaker 3: and there's all sorts of things we could do that

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Speaker 3: we could never do in the past. You also get

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Speaker 3: an immediate reaction when you do things now that interviews

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Speaker 3: to do in the past. But it's definitely harder. You

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Speaker 3: can't just buy a Sunday night TV spot and reach

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Speaker 3: half the population like you used to be able to do.

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Speaker 3: He's harder to build that reach. But ultimately my answer

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Speaker 3: that is always this is why we need to be

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Speaker 3: incredibly creative because there's never been more content in the world,

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Speaker 3: and yet every single consumer that I ever hear talk

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Speaker 3: in a focus group says, I've got no time, So

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Speaker 3: infinite content no time. There's only a very small amount

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Speaker 3: of content that we spend our time with, and so

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Speaker 3: you want to be one of those pieces of content,

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Speaker 3: one of those ads one of those brands that demands

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Speaker 3: the attention to people, so you better do something creative.

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Speaker 2: I think Matt Teos has always sort of interested me.

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Speaker 2: You have so many shareholders, mean more than a million shareholders,

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Speaker 2: many of those mums and dads, and that's as a

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Speaker 2: result of it previously being owned by the government. Do

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Speaker 2: you think much about shareholders when you market? You obviously

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Speaker 2: market to customers, but many of those customers are actually shareholders.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is a unique thing about Tulsa. It was

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Speaker 3: true for my last job too. I was ceeingmo at IAG,

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Speaker 3: which also has a very big retail shareholding. You know,

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Speaker 3: when the NRMA was vitualized created a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: moment shareholders as well. I think look, ultimately, as a marketer,

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Speaker 3: you're always thinking about what's right for the business, and

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Speaker 3: what's right for the business is what's right for stakeholders

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Speaker 3: like investors and shareholders. Ultimately, shareholders want growth. You know,

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Speaker 3: we've got a strategy called T twenty five which we've

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Speaker 3: launched publicly and we've talked a lot about, which is

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Speaker 3: all about growth, and you've seen the early results of

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Speaker 3: that look pretty good. So you know, if we can

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Speaker 3: drive growth, then I think shareholders are going to be happy.

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Speaker 3: And that's sort of our role in marketing is marketing

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Speaker 3: is a growth engine for companies and we're really focused

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Speaker 3: on how we can help support that T twenty five

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Speaker 3: growth strategy of Telstras.

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Speaker 2: So can we see more cracking ads like Secured by Telstra?

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Speaker 2: I love that ad. We saw that, all the hardware

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Speaker 2: appearing and things like that. More of that in the

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Speaker 2: next few years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope, So, I hope. So. Like I said

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Speaker 3: at the outset, I think it's a big creative canvas

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Speaker 3: at Telstra. There's lots of fantastic products, experiences that we

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Speaker 3: can talk about, and I think there's always a need,

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Speaker 3: no matter what brand you are, to be creative if

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Speaker 3: you want to have any chance of standing out and

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Speaker 3: being noticed. So yeah, we definitely want to keep bringing

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Speaker 3: creative storytelling to the brand and really thinking about how

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Speaker 3: we can turn up in unexpected ways because we can't

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Speaker 3: take that huge awareness we have for granted. We've got

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Speaker 3: to earn attention with everything we do. So yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: hopefully you'll see more of that sort of creative storytelling

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Speaker 3: approach come through. Well.

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Speaker 2: Good luck with the job brand. It certainly is in

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Speaker 2: terms of CMAS. It's about as good as job as

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Speaker 2: you can get on the Australian landscape, and some of

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Speaker 2: your predecessors have been truly tremendous marketers. So good luck

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Speaker 2: with it, and thank you very much for talking to

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Speaker 2: Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been fun. Cheers.

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Speaker 2: That was Brent Smart, chief marketing officer at Telstrom. This

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Speaker 2: is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every

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Speaker 2: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's

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Speaker 2: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.