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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris.

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Speaker 2: Paul Nikolau.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor. Been a long time getting here, mate.

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Speaker 1: The reason I want you to here is because of

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Speaker 1: why well how you for a fairwhele now have been

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Speaker 1: representing business in New South Wales and you're the executive

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Speaker 1: director of Business Sydney, which was sort of going to

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Speaker 1: get to the bottom of what business Sydney means, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: It's not just Sydney's sort of New South Wales, but

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Speaker 1: I want to get to that. You're obviously Greek heritage.

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Speaker 1: It's not the only reason you're hear, but that's important

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Speaker 1: to me, and I thank you very much for the

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Speaker 1: two gifts. Well, you know, we have had people come

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Speaker 1: in here who sell sex toys and when something I

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Speaker 1: first when I first was I didn't see the aboriginal

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Speaker 1: painting on there, and I first thought, why there's a

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Speaker 1: fucking cigar. I wasn't sure.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure Cuban cigar that's the.

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Speaker 1: Case, because only saw the timber bit there. That's the

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Speaker 1: color of a sagar and I thought, fuck, I don't

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Speaker 1: even spost it's anymore. And then you give me because

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Speaker 1: you gave me a bottle one at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I thought, what the hell is the wine and cigars?

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Speaker 1: First thing on a podcast morning, but made thanks very much,

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Speaker 1: but just explained to me what are these sticks here?

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Speaker 1: They're obviously for aboriginal significance, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: They're clapsticks and you see them when they're doing a

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Speaker 2: dance and they tap them together and they create that

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Speaker 2: noise that you hear whenever you see them perform.

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Speaker 1: Where they're from though.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure where they're from. But the organization that

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Speaker 2: gave them to me is the Curry Foundation Current Care Foundation.

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Speaker 1: As in as in the Tribe, and they do a

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Speaker 1: lot of work in assisting disadvantage Indigenous people, but they

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Speaker 1: also work with business to get business to employ Indigenous

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Speaker 1: people in their workforce and.

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Speaker 2: Which is a great initiative. And the Curry Foundation do

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Speaker 2: great work in mentoring, educating, encouraging the Indigenou community to

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Speaker 2: work with businesses and work with the community and it's

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Speaker 2: a vice versa type of arrangement which is fantastic and

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Speaker 2: they are very proud of the work that they do.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just Sydney, Bass across Australia and they

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Speaker 2: do some wonderful work in the community. It's actually quite.

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Speaker 1: A nice and I don't know if the audio will

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Speaker 1: pick this up, but for me that sound is quite

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Speaker 1: a nice timber in terms of sound, it's a I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it doesn't change, oh it does change a

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Speaker 1: little bit further down to go, but it's quite a

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Speaker 1: comforting sound to me. I have no idea what I'm

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Speaker 1: doing here, but I'm just saying that the sound itself

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Speaker 1: is very, very nice. It's quite tactile and it actually

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Speaker 1: makes you want to or touch the two anyway. And

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Speaker 1: the wine mate, thank you, yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's from Burton Wines. It's in New South Wales. It's

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Speaker 2: down in the river in the district and we're very

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Speaker 2: keen to support anything that's from New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: Basically Riverine being close to the border.

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Speaker 2: That's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's nearly Victorian well close too.

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Speaker 2: But if it's within the border, I don't care whether

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Speaker 2: it's a mile out or two miles out, as long

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Speaker 2: as it's in New Southwest.

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Speaker 1: The Aubreydonga Aubrey Wodonga argument, Aubrey's on one side with

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Speaker 1: Dongas on the other side, but they're like the twin

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Speaker 1: towns and they're both basically on the board, but ones

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Speaker 1: in your South Wales, ones in Victoria. That's correct, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much. It's a red wine, it is.

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Speaker 2: It's a nice bottle of red wine. And Burton have

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Speaker 2: been a great supporter of Business Sydney and we're very

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Speaker 2: proud to be associated with them. But look, we're also

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Speaker 2: very keen to encourage all Australians to buy Australian, which

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Speaker 2: is really important because through these difficult times a lot

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Speaker 2: of businesses are struggling, and you think we can do

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Speaker 2: the support the wine industry. I think it's very important.

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Speaker 1: We can't get much more Australian than these two items.

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Speaker 1: And I appreciate your gesture. Thanks for much problems. So Paul,

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Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about yourself. Let's just go

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Speaker 1: back a bit here, because you haven't always been a

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Speaker 1: business at Business Sydney. And by the way, Paul's office

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Speaker 1: is literally across the road from my main office outside

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Speaker 1: of this one here, and you're in that new building

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Speaker 1: or newish sort of building across road from the Deutsche building,

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Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank building, I think it is. And it always

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Speaker 1: says this unusual one of the pillars. There has something

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Speaker 1: some text written up in strobe lighting or neon lighting.

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Speaker 1: This is a big rolling all day long and I

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Speaker 1: can never work out what that text means. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it means anything at all. What's that sort

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Speaker 1: of rolling signal on your building?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it's the text from the Marbo decision.

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Speaker 2: And it's an artist that sort of was engaged to

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Speaker 2: do something different when they constructed the building. And that's

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Speaker 2: what it is. It's rolling all the time, all the

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Speaker 2: time because it's a long bit of information on there.

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Speaker 2: And I've been told it has to do with it

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Speaker 2: the Marbo decision.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting. I never knew that. So and and

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Speaker 1: your story go back a bit. Let's just wind a

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Speaker 1: white way way back. I mean born in Sydney, born

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Speaker 1: in Sydney parents, both parents Greek, yes.

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Speaker 2: But they were Greek born in Egypt. Actually, my mother

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Speaker 2: from our Xandria and my father from Cairo a no.

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Speaker 2: And they came to Sydney in the late forties, early fifties,

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Speaker 2: but both met here independently. They went to the Greek

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Speaker 2: Egyptian Club here in Sydney and both my parents met

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Speaker 2: each other there and then sort of they got married

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Speaker 2: and had my brother and.

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Speaker 1: Myself first generation in Australia. That's correct, which is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: And I mean clearly you're chosen a life of administration

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Speaker 1: in terms of in terms of what's your currently an

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Speaker 1: administration in terms of community, and you've chosen one particular community.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that at the moment. Let's go back though,

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Speaker 1: when you first left university or school or whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. Take me through your sort of business career.

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Speaker 1: What did you do?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I went to the university in your South Wales.

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Speaker 2: I did two degrees were won in industry relations and

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Speaker 2: then a Master of Commons in marketing. After that, I

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Speaker 2: was the march which he was at oh eighty so

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Speaker 2: it was eighty five a A five, eighty six, eighty seven.

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Speaker 2: And then I got involved in student politics. Sorry, no, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's about that that around that time got involved in

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Speaker 2: student politics, became the president of the student union at UNI. Yeah, UNI.

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Speaker 2: And then when I finished my runker well Thranker the magazine. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's right. Well, I was president of the whole student

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Speaker 2: union council at the time and that was when Angela bishop.

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Speaker 2: But you may know Angela Bishop. She was our chair

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Speaker 2: of the student Union at the time, and I was president,

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Speaker 2: and we were running the student's body, which is really important.

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Speaker 1: I remember the SIU when I was there. I was there,

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Speaker 1: like I won't say too much, for a long time

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Speaker 1: before you and the SAU was sort of just kicked off,

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Speaker 1: and Thrunker just kicked off too, and they used to

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Speaker 1: sort of pretty much own the magazine.

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Speaker 2: That's correct.

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Speaker 1: And because most of the content came out of the Students'

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Speaker 1: Union and Thrunkle was our local university rag, which I

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Speaker 1: tend to read it. I had a lot of good

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Speaker 1: information in it. So you were in the students Union and.

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Speaker 2: You were the pre president, that's right.

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Speaker 1: What you're like a labor guy? Did you come through

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Speaker 1: labor growing up?

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Speaker 2: When I was at university, I sort of was a

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Speaker 2: political at that stage. I didn't become a member of

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party or the Labor Party or the Greens

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Speaker 2: or whatever. I just ran as a student leader, not

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Speaker 2: a student politician. And I worked with a fellow called

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Speaker 2: Andrew Beckhouse, who was my deputy secretary at the time,

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Speaker 2: and both of us sort of ran on local issues

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Speaker 2: and important student issues, and we got elected for example,

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Speaker 2: student fees. At that time, the Labor government wanted to

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Speaker 2: bring in fees for students and at that time education

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Speaker 2: was for free because GoF Whitland brought it in and

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Speaker 2: then subsequent government.

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Speaker 1: That was year I joined, Yeah, and university and I

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Speaker 1: voted for golf.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, because you know what why.

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Speaker 1: Because my mates went to Vietnam and golf brought in,

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Speaker 1: got rid of conscription, right, and it is time campaign

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Speaker 1: was on and I decided like at that stage I

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Speaker 1: was going to vote for the Labor Party because there's

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Speaker 1: no way I want to be conscripted and be told

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Speaker 1: I've got to go to Vietnam because my mates had

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Speaker 1: been their older mates of mine and they told me what,

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Speaker 1: how horrific it was, right, And I said, I don't

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Speaker 1: really want to go off to this war that I

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Speaker 1: don't even know why we're fighting it. It's funny like so,

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Speaker 1: and golf and university was free.

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Speaker 2: That's great.

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Speaker 1: Golf made university free.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying when you were there, labor was in

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to make us pay.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, yeah, very much so. And they brought

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Speaker 2: in charges an annual fee and it was called the Rand.

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Speaker 2: Oh you can't. I think it was the Rand fees,

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Speaker 2: because he did a sort of sort of a research

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Speaker 2: as to what could be done and charge a fee

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Speaker 2: of some sort, and they brought in fees and then

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Speaker 2: slowly subsequently they increased the fees over time. And at

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Speaker 2: that time all the students were up in arms about

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Speaker 2: what was happening, especially a labor government bringing it in.

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Speaker 2: And so we were one of the bodies. And I

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Speaker 2: was at the same time when Joe Hockey was at

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Speaker 2: Sydney University. He was president at the time over there,

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Speaker 2: and he and I with others had a number of

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Speaker 2: rallies in the city. Over ten thousand students came from

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Speaker 2: all universities across the city, came into the city and

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Speaker 2: were protesting against the government's fee.

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Speaker 1: His im regation to it would have been in the

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Speaker 1: Hawk period. This it was, yeah, yeah, it was kidding

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Speaker 1: a treasure, I'd say, But as Bob was around those days,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And Urene Urene was a a Tommy Tommy

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Speaker 1: Tommy your end. They were all that was a a

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Speaker 1: pretty formidable mob.

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Speaker 2: Very well. They did a lot and they achieved a lot.

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Speaker 2: They did, and at that time students were sort of

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Speaker 2: upset that the government, especially a labor government, was bringing

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Speaker 2: in fees. When it was a labor government, the Whitlam

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Speaker 2: government bought in free education.

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Speaker 1: I remember it well, is it? Have you always been

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Speaker 1: interested in prosecuting let's call it political issues or issues

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Speaker 1: politically for when something is unfair?

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Speaker 2: Totally. I've been advocating for us to do something about homelessness.

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Speaker 2: Just recently I'll get involved with the CEO of sleep Out,

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Speaker 2: the Vinnie sleep and this year I raised over one

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Speaker 2: hundred and nineteen thousand dollars for the CEO of sleep Out.

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Speaker 2: I've raised all up I think close to half a

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Speaker 2: million dollars in the last four years that I've done

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Speaker 2: for a few years. Yeah, I've done for a few

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Speaker 2: years because there are issues that we need to tackle,

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Speaker 2: and one of those big issues is homelessness, and it's

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Speaker 2: getting worse now with the housing crisis. So anything we

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Speaker 2: can do, whether it's a federal government, state government, or

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Speaker 2: local government, or the community in general or business, I

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Speaker 2: think it's important that we all need to work together

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Speaker 2: to help resolve this important issue. We don't want to

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Speaker 2: stand up like San Francisco and other cities around the

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Speaker 2: world where homelessness is a big issue. It's now becoming

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Speaker 2: an issue even worse, and we need to act now

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Speaker 2: and try to deal with this circumstances upon us now.

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Speaker 1: Well, like right now we're recording this and dulling this. Mate,

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Speaker 1: if you get here at five o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 1: which I often do, or alternatively like eight o'clock at nine,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about homelessness, mate. They are wandering around here

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Speaker 1: everywhere you go, walk down a little further down the

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Speaker 1: cross there and they're all camped out, sleeping rough on

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Speaker 1: the streets. And it's like, I don't know, people walk

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Speaker 1: past lake is just accepted now, like it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's normal. Back when I was younger, like it definitely

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Speaker 1: wasn't normal. You walked past, you to see somebody like that,

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Speaker 1: you just keep walking. Everybody just keeps walking. It's it's

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Speaker 1: sort of somewhat terrible in the fact that everybody accepts

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Speaker 1: it going past university. What did you do in terms

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Speaker 1: of career?

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Speaker 2: Look, I was the marketing manager of the Universe's Credit

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Speaker 2: Union for a couple of years, and then I was

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Speaker 2: asked to take over fundraising at the Children's Hospital when

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Speaker 2: it was at Campdown. It was at Royal Alexandra Hospital

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Speaker 2: for Children and the CEO at the time was doctor

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Speaker 2: John You who eventually became Australader of the Year and

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Speaker 2: he was the CEO and he was a great advocate

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Speaker 2: for children and he worked with It was a Liberal

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Speaker 2: government that brought in Peter Collins and Ron Phillips at

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Speaker 2: the time under the Grander years, decided to move the

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Speaker 2: Royal Alexandra Hospital out to the west to Westmead because

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Speaker 2: it was already the Eastern Suburbs had the Children's Hospital

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Speaker 2: at Ranwick. And he made the bold decision to support

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Speaker 2: the government on this initiative and they built a fantastic,

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Speaker 2: brand new hospit rule out at Westmead and I was

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Speaker 2: involved with the fundraising of the event side of things,

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Speaker 2: so I did that for seven years. It was then

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Speaker 2: I was asked to go and take over the fundraising

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Speaker 2: and event side of things for the Foundation for National

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Speaker 2: Parks and that's to raise money and awareness about the

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Speaker 2: need that National Parks and Flora and Fauner need the support.

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Speaker 2: And I was raising money for the very Penguins out

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Speaker 2: at Manly and a variety of bandicoots and a whole

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Speaker 2: range of other animals that were in our environment and

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Speaker 2: they all needed support. Then after that I did seven

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Speaker 2: years at the University New South well As I went

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Speaker 2: back to my alma mata and became the deputy Director

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Speaker 2: of Public Affairs and Development. And then I did three

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Speaker 2: years as Director of Public Affairs and Development and we

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Speaker 2: were raising money for research and also to assist disadvantage students.

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Speaker 1: Who was the boss in those days.

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Speaker 2: John Nyland. Actually today is his birthday, john Nyland, Professor

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Speaker 2: john Nyland was the Vice chance at the time and

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Speaker 2: it's his birthday. Today. Has to Happy birthday, John. If

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Speaker 2: you listening to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Will for sure yes, no not you will be listening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Probably. Well he's now the current he's the current

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Speaker 2: vice Chancellor. I'm doing a great job, fantastic job, very

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Speaker 2: proud of what.

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Speaker 1: I just should stop you for there for said because

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Speaker 1: it's like when I look at you know, like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go back in the university, but when

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Speaker 1: I look at what's going on at Sydney, the amount

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Speaker 1: of sort of this just seems to be drama after

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Speaker 1: drama at Sydney, And then I look at you in

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Speaker 1: a s W and I see the way that I

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Speaker 1: know he's not the CEO, but the way that it

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Speaker 1: is overseen by David, it's such a credit to him.

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Speaker 1: In fact, recently I sent him a text and said, mate,

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Speaker 1: I walked around the UNI at the behest of the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Neurope, which is one of the joint ventures

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Speaker 1: between the Prince wal Hospital and the University of sous Wells.

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Speaker 1: And because at the time I was talking to Matt

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Speaker 1: Kinnan about it and he suggested Mark can't just walk

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Speaker 1: around and have a look at the He's talking about

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Speaker 1: the amount of support he gets from the Vice chancellor

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Speaker 1: and is it just walk around that universe. You have

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Speaker 1: look at number of cranes up there and it's it's

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Speaker 1: a madness the amount of cranes and new buildings and

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Speaker 1: new initiatives and you know, great innovations that happened happening

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Speaker 1: at that University of South Welsh And I'm alumni from

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Speaker 1: there and I'm so proud of what Dave is doing.

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Speaker 1: And I had I felt compelled to reach out of

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Speaker 1: the centem a text told him and the humility of

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Speaker 1: the guy come back to me and says, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: coming from you, that means a lot. Blah. Blah blah, like, dude,

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Speaker 1: you're the vice chancellor and the a his humility would be,

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Speaker 1: his innovation in his drive is amazing, just amazing, And

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Speaker 1: we're lucky we've come from that joint. And I think

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Speaker 1: that university has bred really good, great characters, really great characters,

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Speaker 1: and there's just no ma I'm sure there's dramas, but

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Speaker 1: there's no major drama. Like we're not caught up in

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of political crap.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: It's happening, but it's not headlines. And you know, all

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Speaker 1: due credit to those individuals who run that. It's because

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Speaker 1: it's always been the same ever since it was first

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Speaker 1: went from being a which when I started first, went

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Speaker 1: from being a tech that's correct, to the university in

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Speaker 1: the early seventies, which when I was there, and I

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Speaker 1: was one of the first intakes of the university as

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Speaker 1: opposed to being a tech. But after when did you

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Speaker 1: how did you get involved in this joint the business Sydney?

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, well, I after stuff at the university. Then

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Speaker 2: I did a lot of the fundraising for the Liberal Party. Yep.

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Speaker 1: And I remember because I used to get letters from

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Speaker 1: him exactly right. So there's a dinner on Mark Well.

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Speaker 2: I took over from Michael Gabslely was he set up

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Speaker 2: the Millennium Forum and then he did that for about three.

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Speaker 1: Or four great old made it my Michael. I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen him for a long time, but Michael, obviously I

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Speaker 1: was a big support of him when he was a politician, going.

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Speaker 2: Back he was state member for four clues and he

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Speaker 2: was also I think he was Minister for Corrective Services

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Speaker 2: for a few of time. That's great.

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Speaker 1: I was always a big fan of Michael. And then

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Speaker 1: Michael took over become like treasure or something. Yeah, treasure,

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Speaker 1: he was ahead of treasure and then you took that

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Speaker 1: role to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then I did that for about fourteen years,

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Speaker 2: was raising money for John Howard, Peter Costello, Baro Farrell,

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Speaker 2: John Brogden, Peter Debnham, the whole lot. And it was

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Speaker 2: really a great time, and especially you know John Howard

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Speaker 2: one of Australia's best politicians and he was a great

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Speaker 2: advocate for business. He was a great advocate for the

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Speaker 2: people of Australia and he and the Liberal Party at

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Speaker 2: the time were doing lots of great stuff which was

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Speaker 2: really important for Australia. And to help Australian you know,

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Speaker 2: when you had Hawk and Keating, and then Keating took over.

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Speaker 2: Then then came the Liberal years, and I think that

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Speaker 2: both the labor and Liberal at that time did wonderful

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Speaker 2: things for her, both sides.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I often say on this show and other shows

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Speaker 1: that Hawk and Ketty did some amazing stuff, particularly Keating.

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Speaker 1: In terms of my particular economics, some of the things

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Speaker 1: that Keating do were just outstanding. I would like to

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Speaker 1: see him get reviewed today. I don't mean to take away,

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Speaker 1: but actually to be updated. And there was one particular

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Speaker 1: I'm really keen on that is the calculation of superinnuation

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Speaker 1: how much someone actually needs to retire and when they

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Speaker 1: retire in the every agent for retirement and the average

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Speaker 1: age of life for that matter, But that all needs

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Speaker 1: to be reviewed. Hasn't been reviewed since nineteen ninety six. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: are we putting enough away? But that's a diffinition of

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Speaker 1: a kidding, great courage Hawk like so charisma. It can

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Speaker 1: keep a country together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean the idea of setting up superinnuation

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Speaker 2: was just a brilliant idea.

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Speaker 1: Well in terms of the public purse, because when someone

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Speaker 1: like you retire, if you hadn't been putting any moneyway,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be a drain on the public PA.

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Speaker 1: And it's a massive liability, by the way. And I

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Speaker 1: only had someone sitting here about three weeks ago who

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Speaker 1: had who told me that she had been asked to

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Speaker 1: go to Canada, the United States and to Europe to

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Speaker 1: talk about the estrange supernovation system, about how superior it

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Speaker 1: is and how it actually works. And that's author back

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Speaker 1: a couping, but I would say it does need to

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Speaker 1: be reviewed. And then and of course John Howard, one

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Speaker 1: of the great politicians in our country lague, who had

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Speaker 1: to sit in the mid sit in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the lane. And like in terms of the worst person

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Speaker 1: to play a game of squash against is someone who

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Speaker 1: knows how to dominate the middle of the court. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's John how That's exactly right. In politics, he

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Speaker 1: dominates the middle of the court and you just can't

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Speaker 1: get around him. He's always got his back in the way,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he just moves and he has to

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Speaker 1: move to his steps left or right, front forward, and

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Speaker 1: he's got you covered.

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Speaker 2: His success was a lot of it because he surrounded

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Speaker 2: himself with smart people and one of those people was

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Speaker 2: a fellow Greek Australian, Arthur Sinnadunos, who was a former

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Speaker 2: senator and former ambassador to Washington. Great guy, and he

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Speaker 2: played an important role in helping John Howard, you know,

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Speaker 2: work his way through the minefield of what politics is

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Speaker 2: all about. And he was a great listener, and Arthur

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Speaker 2: was able to assist him in that regard and help

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Speaker 2: him and the other ministers you know, do a great

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Speaker 2: job while they were in power during those periods.

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Speaker 1: And of course Costello then and of course after that

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Speaker 1: Joe Hockey and both both great treasurers. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that's coming out of all this is that

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Speaker 1: you have, over the years, and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this has been purposeful or not, but you have cultivated,

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Speaker 1: and I don't mean that in a bad sense, a

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Speaker 1: great deal of contact. Your contact book must be enormous,

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Speaker 1: both left and both red and blue, and also at

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Speaker 1: a below the politics at the public service levels. You

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Speaker 1: have developed this great book and you're therefore someone perfect

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Speaker 1: for the job of what you're currently doing, particularly when

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Speaker 1: it comes to business, because business, businesses, business people are

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Speaker 1: always looking for someone to help them navigate the system. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I guess that's one of the reasons you've got

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Speaker 1: the job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what I do. I basically help people

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Speaker 2: navigate through the political process, the business process, and the

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Speaker 2: community process. And it's hard because if you're in business

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Speaker 2: and if you don't know who's who in the zoo,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, it's a big challenge for you. And

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Speaker 2: one of my roles is to help those businesses engage

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Speaker 2: with the federal government, engage with the state government, and

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Speaker 2: engage with local government. I mean, all three tiers of

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Speaker 2: government are important, especially those businesses.

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Speaker 1: So at every level, not just state, yep, every level.

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Speaker 2: So if you were to say to me, Paul, who

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Speaker 2: do I speak to in Prime Minister's office or who

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Speaker 2: do I speak to in the Department of Defense, then

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Speaker 2: I've got the contact there that I help you engage,

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Speaker 2: because if I can help you facilitate that engagement, then

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Speaker 2: it's me helping you get on with business and helping

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Speaker 2: you go out there and earn aquit and you employ

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Speaker 2: someone and invest in this wonderful city that we're and

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Speaker 2: wonderful country we live in.

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Speaker 1: So take me through then the inception of business in

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Speaker 1: it where not your role necessarily, but where this whole

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Speaker 1: concept come from.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's similar to a Chamber of Commerce. And in

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Speaker 2: New South Wales we have the Mothership which we referred

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Speaker 2: to as Business in New South Wales and that's set

436
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 2: it up by Dan Hunter. And what we've done is

437
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: we've dissected the state into regions. So I've got the

438
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: Sydney Region which is from here to Gosford to here

439
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: to Paramatta to Hear to Cronulla. And then my colleague

440
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 2: David Borgia, who's the head of Business Western Sydney's got

441
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 2: all of Western Sydney, and then Bob Hawes has got

442
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 2: the Hunter and the Hunter Region, and then Paul Martin

443
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 2: has got the Illawarra and she's also got the regions

444
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: outside of the Sydney metropolitan area. And so we yeah,

445
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 2: this area. Yeah, And so our role respectively and individually

446
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 2: and collectively, our role is to go out and engage

447
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 2: with businesses, whether they're large or medium or small and

448
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 2: help then get on with business.

449
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: Where did the idea originate though, Oh, it's been here

450
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: for years. It's over one hundred and twenty years called

451
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: Business Australia.

452
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 2: One stage there was now it's called Australian Chamber of

453
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 2: Commons and Industry, and that represents all the state chambers

454
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: across the country. And then here in New South Wales,

455
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: Business in New South Wales used to be Business in

456
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 2: New South w Sorry it was called the New South

457
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: Wales Business Chamber. Then they change it to Business in

458
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 2: New South Wales.

459
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: Right, So I'm going to go bring on to come

460
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: straight back bills. I think it's important for you just

461
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: to roll out all layout for business owners. How these

462
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: chambers work. It's very confusing Chambers of Commerce businesses South Wales.

463
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: And you just gave me this five regions regions and

464
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: how they and also how that fits into the broader

465
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: for our Victorian listeners and queens and listeners that lad

466
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: listens of Perth listeners and dar One listeners. How does

467
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: this roll out into the country at large generally speaking?

468
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: I mean, how do people access this equivalent stuff in Victoria?

469
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: If you do there is if that is the case.

470
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 1: I just because a lot of business owners, you know,

471
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: they get frustrated, and they can be small business owners,

472
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: like can be coffee shop owner getting frustrated with the

473
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: local council. Like for example, my coffee shop owner in

474
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: this building here, I own this building but my tenant

475
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: always gets frustrated with the local council and they can

476
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: get caught up in the quagmire. You know, they don't

477
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: know what you can't these days. You can't turn up

478
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: because there's no one over there at the council's sake.

479
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: You can't ring up because you just get They want

480
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: you to operate digitally. When you do send in something

481
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: in a digital sense, like you know by email, sometimes

482
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: it takes forever people to come back to you, if

483
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: at all. If you go to the politician who sits

484
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: on top of it, you're going to get to a

485
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: process of EA's and advisors and that you won't get through.

486
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: Maybe that's when someone like a Chamber of Commerce or

487
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: someone like yourself and representing business Sydney can be of help.

488
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: But I want to go the break comes straight back.

489
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: I just want you to sort of lay it out

490
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: for itselves how it all works. And and then of

491
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: course I want to talk about COSBO. I saw you

492
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: the other having coffee with the c of COSBO, and

493
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: I want to talk about where COSBO fits into all this.

494
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: So what are their places? I guess business owners need

495
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: to know the places they can go and let's call

496
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: it lobby for something that's important to them. As opposed.

497
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: I have to get on and talk to you know,

498
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: Ben Fordham on two GB in the morning, and then

499
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: Ben has to unreach out because that's what's happening.

500
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I know that. And Ben does a great job.

501
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 2: And even previously Alan Jones did the I mean they

502
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: were both well. Ben and Alan Jones are very powerful

503
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: individuals in this in this city.

504
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: But people shouldn't have to go through this. I agree

505
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: with they should be able to go direct to you

506
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: because they don't know about enough about this, which is

507
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: why I wanted you on the show, because you know,

508
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: people should know about you and your your organization, and

509
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: because you're probably better connections and because most people an't

510
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: going to talk want to talk to about like politicians,

511
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,239
Speaker 1: because they know he's going to pull the pants down, right,

512
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: he can invite him in all that sort of stuff.

513
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: He can sort of semi threaten him with media. But

514
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: your process is totally different. But I want to go

515
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: to the break and come straight back and let's talk

516
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: about how you guys, how it all looks, what's what's

517
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: the front frame will look like, and how you guys

518
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: operate so that people and how do people get to

519
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: find you? We'd like this is a website, et cetera.

520
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: But we'll go to the break and come straight back.

521
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: Coming back from the break, I'm here with Paul Nicolo

522
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: and here is the executive director of Business Sydney. Were

523
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: just a little bit about Paul's background. Basically, this guy

524
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: here sitting in front of me, well dressed, looking very sartorial,

525
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: is well educated but probably more importantly well connected individual

526
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: when it comes to traversing and navigating our way through

527
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: the interaction between someone wh's running a business small or large,

528
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: with the complexities of public service or the public sector

529
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: and all the political parties that sort of sit on

530
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: top of that. And one of the things I like

531
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: to know Paul is there's lots of Paul equivalence around

532
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: in various parts of New South Wales, but also across Australia.

533
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: How does what is a chamber of commerce and where

534
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: does chambers of commerce fit into this whole game? And

535
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: how do we get to talk to them? And do

536
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: we talk straight to you guys? How's it all working?

537
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: Okay? There are four organizedtions across Australia that represent business.

538
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: The first one is the Business Council of Australia and

539
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: they represent the top one hundred a six listed companies, right,

540
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: So not something I'm going to go to. I'm not

541
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: going to go to the Business Counsel all worsaw BHP or Yeah,

542
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 2: that's correct, that's great.

543
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: Then there's another organ that's called the Business Councils Australia.

544
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: That's correct, And that's all the toughs, that's all the guys.

545
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: Are plenty of huge, huge businesses, top one hundred and

546
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: they what do they do for them?

547
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: Oh, they do the same thing as I would do

548
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: at the local level, and that is they advocate for

549
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: business right and that's headed up by Brand Black who's

550
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: the CEO and his role is to you know, argue

551
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: the case with the federal politicians and the state politicians

552
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: and industry represent industry right across the board across Australia.

553
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: So they and as I said, they represent the top

554
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty six listed companies. Another body is

555
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: the Australian Industry Group and they represent all the manufacturing

556
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: companies across Australia. And that's in Us Wilcox, who's the

557
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: CEO there.

558
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: This is a government or no.

559
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: They're all funded out of membership, right, and they also

560
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: probably get grants from the government to go out and

561
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: educate businesses on particular things. But so the second group

562
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: is the Austraine Industry Group. The third group is COSBO, which

563
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: you may mention of before.

564
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: That's the Counsel of Small Businesses of Australia.

565
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, that's right. I think it's Adam

566
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: Akastrata is the CEO of COSBOA and okay, So again

567
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: they represent a lot of the small businesses across the country.

568
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: You know from the membership dealers membership deal Yeah, so

569
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: you know it's news agency, it's brokers, it's bookshops, it's hairdressers,

570
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: it's mechanics. They're a whole myriad of small medium sized businesses.

571
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: And again their role is to go out there and

572
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: advocate on behalf of small businesses. So that's the third group.

573
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: The fourth group is Austrange Chamber of Commers. So their

574
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: job is to again represent business, but they represent all

575
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: the state chambers and the local chambers. So you might

576
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: have the Darling Host Local Chamber, you've got the Lane

577
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: Cove Chamber of Commas, you've got the Penrith Chamber of Commerce.

578
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: So all those small bodies then go up to the

579
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: state body and then the state body has AKI, which

580
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: is the Australian Chamber of Commerce that represents all those

581
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: state chambers and all those local chambers at in camera.

582
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: Right just on the Chamber of Commerce. Let's say we're

583
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: picking Chamber Commerce and lank Cove. Who are the people

584
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: who run this thing? And do they meet once a month?

585
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: They do meet and there's a president and then there's

586
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: a secretary, then there's a treasurer and they're all the

587
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: small businesses in the Lane Cove area. They get together

588
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: and they meet once a month. They'll talk about issues,

589
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: or they might organize an event where they will get

590
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: their local state member or the local federal member come

591
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: and speak. Or they might get someone like Bruce Bilson

592
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: who is the Small Business Commissioner at the federal level

593
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: and he might come and speak, or he might get

594
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: chrys Lamont who's the Small Business Commissioner here in New

595
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: South Wales to engage with those businesses in those local areas.

596
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: Right, and then after the Cosboa, what's next?

597
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: And then there's the Astraie Chamber Commerce, and then what

598
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: are you guys. Okay, So we're part of the Traine

599
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: Chamber of Commerce movement.

600
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: Right, So the Australian Chamber of Commerce has another arm.

601
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: You Well, if the Austraine Chamber of Commas, their role

602
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: is to look after issues that across national across state boarders. Okay,

603
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: So they would go and lobby the Prime Minister on

604
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: say decreasing income tax or increasing the.

605
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: Right to disconnect.

606
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they would argue against it, which they are

607
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: doing so at the moment, right because I can't go

608
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: and do that. Aki can do that because they're a

609
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: national based body that's located down in Canberra. So my

610
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: role is really to talk to Andrew McKell, who's the

611
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: CEO of the Australian Chamber of Commerce, and say to him,

612
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: this is what's happening at the coal face. So I'm

613
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: the conduit to small business. So for example, say, for Mark,

614
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: you say to me, look at there's a particular Issu'd

615
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: like you to go and advocate. I would take it

616
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: to Andrew McKell and he would do that on my

617
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: behalf and on your behalf down in Canberra. Right.

618
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: So if I'm in I would come and see you

619
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: because I'm in Sydney, so to speak, and I would

620
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: go see your equivalent if I was in Western Sydney.

621
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: So the starting point probably is you guys.

622
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct, and you'll come to me and then

623
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: I will then determine what that issue is and how

624
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 2: we best strategize and how we deal with that circumstance.

625
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: So if it's to you know, you would say we

626
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: need to do something about the cost of insurance or

627
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: the cost of wages or anything that you think is

628
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: pertinent to your business, then I would then determine with

629
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: you what's the best strategy going forward. Now, if it

630
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: is something at a national level, then i'd take it

631
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: to Andrew mckeller and we'll talk to him about what's

632
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: the best way going forward. If it's a state matter,

633
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: say for example, you're angry about payroll tarited ample, that's

634
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: a big one for my huge walks industry, because I

635
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: would then go to Dan Hunter, and Dan Hunt, who's

636
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: the state see our business in South Wales, and he

637
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: and I would work together and then we would then

638
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: go lobby the state government, whether it's the Premier or

639
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: the Treasurer or the Finance minister to try to reduce payroll.

640
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Tax in New South walest so I think it is

641
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: Daniel at New South Wales level. And by the way,

642
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: we the mortgage industry will be talking to you because

643
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: it is a major issue at the moment and although

644
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: we and it's also a major issue for people like Uber.

645
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: Uber's just been hit up with a massive payroll tax bill, which,

646
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: by the way, payroll tax doesn't make any sense. I

647
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: pay tax as I employed someone, like I should be

648
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: getting a reward because I employed someone. It's just incentive

649
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: to employ people. So I mean, I just can never

650
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: understand the logic behind payroll tax. But there's something that

651
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: can't afford to get rid.

652
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: Of that's worth four billion dollars.

653
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's getting larger. So it's a bit of

654
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: a tax grab on every the moment. You know, the

655
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: state governments are looking at how can we get more

656
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: payroll tax out of groups and what we do. What

657
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: they do is and then they make it. They deem

658
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: that if you're a contractor like an Uber contractor, you

659
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: are actual employee and therefore Uber every payment that you

660
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: make to every Uber contractor in your whole network therefore

661
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: is subject to pay roll tax and payroll taxes five

662
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: point three percent or something like. That's great total, that's

663
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: great bill. So if you pay you know, one hundred

664
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: million dollars a year, you're going to have to pay

665
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: five million dollars. That's great tax for employing all these people.

666
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who don't want employ

667
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: any more people, so they fall below the payroll tax threshold.

668
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: You're right. The principal objection is that I got to

669
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: pay five percent for somebody who's working for me here

670
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: in Australia. That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

671
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't understand it. I don't know why

672
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: payroll taxes, even thing they consider.

673
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: State governments can't levy an income tax, so they've got

674
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: to find other sources the bullshit thing. Oh look, you know, look,

675
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: I think we've got too much government. I mean, the

676
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: fact is we've got eight governments and then we have

677
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: I think it's around five hundred and fifty three councils

678
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: across the country for a population of twenty seven millions.

679
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous.

680
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: Twenty seven million people. Please explain that to me. Yeah,

681
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: it's amazing. And not only that, but we've got eight

682
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: departments education, We've got eight departments of infrastructure. We have

683
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: eight departments of road, we have eight departments of transport,

684
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: eight departments of police. We've got all that bureaucracy that

685
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: is hampering economic growth in Australia because we've got just

686
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: too much government and too much red tape.

687
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it must be sort of frustrating, even maybe more

688
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: for you because you know the breadth and length and

689
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 1: depth of this problem. I mean, like someone, I mean,

690
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm just dealing with one problem, for example, payroll tax,

691
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: but some like you, you're dealing with multip bot ten

692
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: and you just see the inefficiencies that have that sort

693
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 1: of currently exist in this in this country. And I'm

694
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: not blaming red or blue by the way, it's just

695
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: they're all the same. It's just a problem. It's a

696
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: massive problem. Relative to the size of the GDP of

697
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: the country, I would say we're one of the most

698
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: heavily not only regulated, but most heavily serviced by the

699
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: public sector countries in the world, without a doubt.

700
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: I mean, there's three things we need to do in

701
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 2: this country to help economic growth. One is we need

702
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: to reform federal and state government relations. And that is

703
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: saying whether we need a state government or with you know,

704
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: we need a federal government. So the question is do

705
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: we need state and local government? So that needs to

706
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: be looked at.

707
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: It that's a constitutional issue.

708
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 2: It is a content and I don't think any government

709
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: will do it. I can't see Chris Means working up

710
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: to see the Prime Minister of an easy and say premissure.

711
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: That ain't going to happen, right, but it should. Okay.

712
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 2: The question is is do we have too many councils?

713
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: I think we do. The question is no political party.

714
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: We saw with Bed and Gladis Berry Jecline that the

715
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: fiasco that happened about amalgamations as we saw were Premier

716
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: Jeff Kennett when he was the premier, he amalgamated too

717
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: many councils and that just in Queensland. Well it does, yes,

718
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: exactly right, I mean it does works in Brisbane yep, yep.

719
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: But again someone's got to show leadership in that space.

720
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: And I don't think there's many that are going to

721
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: put there, you know, put their head on the chopping

722
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: block to look at getting rid of the state government

723
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: or getting rid of councils. I think we've had that

724
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: and that's gone and that's now lost. The other thing

725
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: we need to do is form taxation. You know, I

726
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: think we need to increase every that's exactly right. We

727
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: need to reduce sorry, we need to increase the GST

728
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: from ten to fifteen percent and put it on.

729
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: But you know what the doctor Jim's response to me was, Mark,

730
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: why should we do that? That just goes We don't

731
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: get any that goes straight to the states. And I said, well,

732
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: that's not my point, but that the GC should be

733
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: changed and then you should have more money back to

734
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: the states so the states don't have to do with

735
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: pay roll tacks and land tacks and stamp duties. So

736
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: they're not chasing this artificial tax on artificial income because

737
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: they don't have that ability to do under the current constitution.

738
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: It's a constitutional flaw totally.

739
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 2: But no government will do it. I mean, I think

740
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: Malcolm turn will have the opportunity to do it, but

741
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: it was all too difficult and he didn't want to

742
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: risk his Prime ministership. And so I think at the

743
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: time you had the Premier of New South Wales and

744
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: Premier of South Australia all supporting that initiative, and I

745
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: think there were a lot of business chief economists and

746
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: economic writers are all supporting that reform, but he just

747
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: didn't go down the path. And I can't see that

748
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: the urb and Easy government will do it. I can't

749
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 2: see if there is a potential Dutton government that they

750
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: would do it. So that's always going to be in then,

751
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: never and never, I think, unfortunately, and we need to

752
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: reform taxation. There's no incentive for anyone to work harder.

753
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: There's no incentive for you Mark to go off and

754
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: set up another business because you're just going to be

755
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: paying more tax and it's going to be more pressure

756
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: on you and it's not not worth your while. You

757
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: might as well just do what you do at the moment,

758
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: pay your tax, do your duty to God, can in

759
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: the country, and then just don't worry about making any

760
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 2: more money because there's no incentive. Because it does. We

761
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: need to incentivize business. We need to incentivize the individual,

762
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: and at the moment, individuals and businesses are not being incentivized.

763
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 2: They're sitting back thinking, well, you know, if I go

764
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: and work extra hours, or if I go and employ someone,

765
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: or I go out and do more in my field,

766
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: then I'm going to be paying more tax and is

767
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: it worth it at the end of the day.

768
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: So what are your So let's say somebody has an

769
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: issue relative to something they're doing city, they're a business

770
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: own they don't have to be a small business, they

771
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: can be any sized business. What would be the process.

772
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: So let's say they let's say they have an issue.

773
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: It's a new one. But let's say they have an

774
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: issue in relation to the right to disconnect, which has

775
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: been was made all more recently and without a lot

776
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: of consultation. So do they run off to Cosboa? Do

777
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: they come and see you.

778
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: Members of COSBOO, they would, they would go to see COSBAA.

779
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: If they remember of ours, then they would come to me.

780
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: So you have membership as well, Yes, yeah, that's right.

781
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 2: I've got one hundred and fifty one members right from

782
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: large corporates to medium sized businesses, even to small businesses.

783
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: But we would work collectively. I would get in contact

784
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: with COSBAA, get in contact with the Australian sorry Business

785
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: Council of Australia, the Australian Industry Group and with Aki

786
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: and Andrew mckello who's the CEO there, and we would

787
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: work collectively. And what's the best way forward because it

788
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: is a national policy announcement that the Labor Government implemented,

789
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: so we'd have to work from the national perspective down

790
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: in Canberra to see what we can do.

791
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: They consult with eyes anyway.

792
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: Yes, they do for this particularly so were they may

793
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: have consulted with Andrew mckeller and with brand Black and

794
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: also with Innis Wilcox, but they haven't consulted at the

795
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: grass for it. So the cold face.

796
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: Because it looks like to me that you guys you

797
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: in particular, and the people who are around you more

798
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: like field agents, like you're out there in the field.

799
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: And I mean I see you like at least once

800
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: a week or maybe every two weeks, perhaps just wandered

801
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: around the joint. So and I've never you've never raised

802
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: it with me as someone who employs a lot of people,

803
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: like you know, like a lot of people, and like

804
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: you never raised with me. And I know your style.

805
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: If you thought something was worth raising, you would have

806
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: raised with me. I got caught by surprise when this

807
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: legislation came through. I'm sure it came through the newspapers

808
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: and all sort of stuff, but I never I was

809
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: never consulted on it. I was never asked would you

810
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: like to make a submission. I feel quite strongly about

811
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: the legislation because I just think it's just stupid nonsense.

812
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: Given the way people work from home today, and like

813
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: my business, you got three and two. You can come

814
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: in three days and you can stay at home two

815
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: days work from home. A lot of the people who

816
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: choose work from home, which makes sense to me, is

817
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: that they want to go pick the kids up at

818
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: three o'clock, spend a little bit time with the kids,

819
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: may you take the door for war prepared dinner, and

820
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: then they get back on the tools at six or

821
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: seven o'clock. So even the hours thing is they're hours

822
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: at eight thirty to five thirty, but all of a

823
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: sudden they've adjusted their hours. Does that mean I can't

824
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: contact them at seven thirty.

825
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, you've got a relationship where they're happy to receive

826
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: a phone call from you.

827
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: I think that's complicated. Oh I look great, ident and

828
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: I didn't need and most of my peop are pretty good.

829
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: But there's going to be people who are going to

830
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: say I'm going to I'm just gonna turn my phone up.

831
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: I'm not going to answer your phone. It's not that

832
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: they I don't have an obligation not to contact them,

833
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: but they have the right to disconnect from me. In

834
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: other words, don't reply to me. That over time will

835
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: frustrate the shit out of me and the rest of

836
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: my senior staff. And because that'll because that's going to

837
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: piss off my customers, it's going to put me at

838
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: a disadvantage relative to doing business against my competitors or

839
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: my peers. Because my peers are able to be contacted

840
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: at night and not my guys aren't. Then I'm a

841
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: disavantaged because most of our business gets done after five

842
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: six o'clock at night, Like home line approvals are done.

843
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: Most people don't apply until after they finish work.

844
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: That's right.

845
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: And you know, most of my branches across Australia and

846
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: we got like and brokers. We've got like thirteen hundred

847
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 1: brokers all across the country. They don't see anyone during

848
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: the day. They see when they finish work. It's correct,

849
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: and then they submit the deal and the deal might

850
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: go to either us at head office or am I

851
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: going to one of the banks. The banks looking at

852
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: it to seven or eight o'clock at night, and then

853
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: sometimes the banks even look at later and the customers

854
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: dine and know what the answer is. So like sometimes

855
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, my guys might need to be taught us

856
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: on at nine o'clock at night. But if they know,

857
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: if they is to disconnect, what the hell like it's

858
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: just a nonsense. I'm lucky. So if it hasn't reflected

859
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: my business, but I just my frustration with the nonsense

860
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: of the job of their legislation. I always ever consulted

861
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: nothing I should Our industry is never consulted at the

862
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: MF double A or at the FB double A. I

863
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: don't think, as far as I'm aware, we would never

864
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: No one ever talked to us US as an association.

865
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: So what do you think people not on this particular topic, so,

866
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: but just generally business owners in New South Wales and

867
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: in Sydney, in your area, what do you think they

868
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: should be doing? I mean, like it should it be

869
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: knocking up there on the door of their local politician.

870
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: By the mind you they got a council one, they

871
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: got a state one, and they got to everyone, so

872
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: you don't know which one to go to or should

873
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: they just bypass those individuals and go to you?

874
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: And I think that's one option they could do either

875
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 2: come to me, or they can go to their local

876
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: Chamber of Comments and bring it up and then the

877
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: President and the Secretary will take it up at the

878
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 2: state level. Or alternative, they can go to their federal

879
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: members and their state members and their local council. So

880
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: depending on what the issue is. So for except sample,

881
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: if it's a development application or building application, or someone's

882
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: you know, wants a particular road to be fixed or

883
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: a foot path, or they want to buy a cycle

884
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: lane or whatever in their local they go straight to

885
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: the council. The contact there you have to yeah, if

886
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: someone comes to me, So for example, you come to me,

887
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: say look, Paul, I've got an issue. I live in

888
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 2: Willara and there's a particular a road that's not being

889
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: fixed or whatever. I would then help you guide you

890
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: to who you should be speaking. Would you go and

891
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 2: talk to Clover Well, yes, because relationship, Yes, yes, I

892
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: would go to Clover. I mean I'm doing that at

893
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: the moment with a number of businesses in the city

894
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: who are suffering as a result of the construction of

895
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: cycle lanes and they've been greatly affected, and so therefore

896
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 2: I've been putting forward to Clover more the issues that

897
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 2: these small businesses are having as a result of the construction.

898
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: What the reception do you get? I mean, what sort

899
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: of relationship do you have to have with someone like Clover.

900
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: Look, you've got to have a good relationsip. It's no

901
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: good having a diverse adversarial relationship. It's got to be

902
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: a relationship.

903
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: How do you build that?

904
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: I work with it. I mean, you know, when I

905
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: took on the role, I went and saw her and

906
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: talked about the issues that are affecting businesses and said

907
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: that I'm happy to work with her, and she then

908
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: said she was happy to work with me. So it's

909
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 2: you know, we're not always going to agree, of course, right.

910
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't support all these new cycle lanes

911
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: that are coming into play at the moment because I

912
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: just think they've been put in the wrong spots. But

913
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I'll still work with

914
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: it because I think bike lanes do serve a purpose

915
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: and we need to have bike lanes that work efficiently

916
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: and effectively, and so, but I'm also concerned about the

917
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: business as are suffering as a result of the construction

918
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: of these cycle lanes.

919
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: But how do you so if you go wrong. Good

920
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: examples of cycle lanes and or any construction actually that

921
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: is sort of causing a problem for the same business owners.

922
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: Like in the city, for example, there's quite a few.

923
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: And do you become their advocate or is it more

924
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: you raise it with say the the Sydney City Council,

925
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: And do you raise it with the officers or do

926
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: you raise it with the politicians?

927
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so I go to the officers first, yep, right,

928
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: So I would go to Monica Bron who's the CEO,

929
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: to talk to her about it, or I might speak

930
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: to the relevant officer who's looking after the cycle lanes

931
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: or the construction of the cycle lane. So I'll go

932
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: to them first. If I don't get any joy out

933
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 2: of them, then I would go to the CEO. And

934
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: if I don't get any joy out of it, then

935
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: I would go to clovermore, or I might go to

936
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: some of the other councilors who sit on the council and.

937
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: And how do you because you don't want him to say,

938
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: here comes out bloody Paul Nicolo. Again, they do on

939
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: a few cays and I'm sort of like like he's

940
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: there advocating for you know, for people and they close

941
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: their mind to you because they say, well, we know

942
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: what his game is going to be, and that's not

943
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: what our policies. Our policy is to put cycle lanes in,

944
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: for example, and our game has put cycle lanes in.

945
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: We know he's going to be prosecuting against that. How

946
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: do you expect to get a good hearing they do.

947
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: Listen to me. Whether they then actually implement what I suggest,

948
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: it's another matter. But I've got to keep going back

949
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: to them, and if I can't, then I probably would

950
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: ring up Ben fordham More. I get in contact with

951
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: Ben English or one of his journalists and say, here

952
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: is an issue that you should help me advocate fall

953
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: through the media.

954
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: And did you ever get do you ever get to

955
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: that position.

956
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: Totally? Give classic example the cruise industry, which is a

957
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: massive industry for Australia. It's worth four point five billion

958
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: dollars here in.

959
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: Australia, I know. So it just started to come back

960
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: in again.

961
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: And it's worth about two point five billion dollars just

962
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: for Sydney alone. Okay, because when the ships come into Australia,

963
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: they come into Sydney and they love coming into our harbor.

964
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful harbor and it's one of the unique

965
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: harbors around the world. And just after COVID, you know,

966
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: there was an issue where if you got COVID on

967
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: a ship and you were heading, say to New Zealand,

968
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 2: or you're going to another island around this our Pacific,

969
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 2: you could not come back on a ship because you

970
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: get COVID, you had to fly back. And so I

971
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 2: called on Ben English to ring the Premier and to

972
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: say this is just a ridiculous situation where someone who

973
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: was sick got COVID on the ship but couldn't come

974
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: back on the ship, but could fly back right. And

975
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: then the Premier heard that from Ben English because we'd

976
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: been advocating in both at the state and federal level,

977
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: and in to his credit, the Premiere the next day

978
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: announced to those restrictions that they placed on the cruise

979
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: industry who'd been removed. So you've got to look at

980
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: strategies and other avenues upon which you have to advocate

981
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: to get a result. And that's what you want. You

982
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 2: want to get a result. You don't want to sort

983
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 2: of have this matter keep lingering on without any resolution.

984
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: We had bending here and straight talk the other day.

985
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: He's a really good character.

986
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: Very influential, right, very hard working, determined, focused individual who's

987
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,479
Speaker 2: really determined to help Sitney. Your help New South Wales

988
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 2: because Dayla Telegraph is New South walest our paper.

989
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: That's great, it's very interesting. So yeah, so you will

990
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: lean on your media contacts when you need to, when

991
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: you're not getting a response from your political contacts or

992
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: your public service contacts. So you're sort of lead to

993
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: some extent in your role, you're sort of like a fixer.

994
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: Well it's a certain degree, but I want to get

995
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 2: a resolution. I'm somewhat a fixer and I'm also a

996
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: person that wants to see an end result. We want

997
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: resolution if there's a matter of there's an issue, we

998
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: don't want it to just keep burning and burning burning.

999
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: We want to deal with it and get on with business, right,

1000
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: And that's what business want. They haven't got time to

1001
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: sit there waiting for a matter to be resolved. Some

1002
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: of these matters take years to happen, and it say

1003
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 2: it's unfair on the business community, unfair on individuals, unfair

1004
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: on the community if we can't resolve matters. And I

1005
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 2: have to work out what is the best strategy to

1006
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: get an outcome. And if it means that I've got

1007
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: a lobbyer government, or I've got a lobby a public servant,

1008
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 2: or I've got to use the media to assist me

1009
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: in that in trying to find a resolution, then I

1010
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: will do whatever it takes to get a matter of

1011
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: resolve for business, because that's what I'm here for. They

1012
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: don't pay me because I'm beautiful, but they don't pay

1013
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: me because I'm a rich man. I'm here to do

1014
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: a job and I want to get a resolution when

1015
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: it comes to matters that is affecting business.

1016
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: So then what drives you, Paul? So, do you have

1017
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: an overarching sort of internal policy that Paul Nikolou has

1018
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: that he wants to see a better Australia or a

1019
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: better Sydney or does he? Are you or perhaps are

1020
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: you really interested in a very healthy economy? Or what

1021
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: drives you in an overall sense? And like above the

1022
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: line stuff like you know, not in the tactical stuff

1023
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: where you go on twist arms and talk to people

1024
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: you've had contact with over a forty year period and

1025
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, using your amenity in contact. But what is

1026
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: it that drives you're overarching? Oh?

1027
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: Look, I'm just committed to the job. I'm committed to

1028
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 2: helping business in Sydney. I'm committed to help business it's

1029
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: in New South Wales. I'm committed to help business in Australia.

1030
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: And what drives you? What is it? I love it?

1031
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: I mean I love what I do. I love what

1032
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: I do, and you've got to love what you do.

1033
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: It's no good just being the head of business Sydney

1034
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 2: and not love the job. You've got to love it.

1035
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: Youve got to be passionate. I'm committed to it. I

1036
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: love what I do. I love engaging with people. I

1037
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 2: love engaging politicians, I love engaging you know, public servants.

1038
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: I love engaging the community and all if we can

1039
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: all work together to resolve things and all together that

1040
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: we can bring things to a resolution or even just

1041
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: to get things going. I'm just passionate about what I

1042
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: do and I love it. You know it's important. It's

1043
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: important for me, but it's also important for the community.

1044
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: Do you think are you saying? Is it because you

1045
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: have a deep understanding over a long, long period of

1046
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: time about how well collaboration will work.

1047
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 2: Yes, Look, I've got I know how to fix things.

1048
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: I know how to get things done. And I want

1049
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: to use that intellectual property that I have, whether it's

1050
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: my contacts, whether it's my engagement, whether it's my strategies

1051
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: that I can come up with. If I can utilize

1052
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: any of those things to help someone, whether it's a business,

1053
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 2: whether it's a community, you know, whether it's just an individual,

1054
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: then I like doing that and I want outcomes, you know,

1055
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 2: I like my success is my KPI is for people

1056
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: to be happy and to be successful in business, in

1057
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: business and in the community as well.

1058
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: And just find it. What you mentioned his name one

1059
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: person who sort of you remind me of a different style,

1060
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: but remind me of Bruce Bruce Bilson. Bruce is one

1061
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: of the great evangelists when he was in government totally

1062
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: for small business owners, in particular small busines owners now

1063
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: and I often wonder what happened to Bruce, But you

1064
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: know he's commissioner for business commissioner, right is that at

1065
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: a level that's correct, That's fantastic. But he was always

1066
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: a liberal too, was it as he was?

1067
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 2: He was a small business and he established the small

1068
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 2: business commissioner position when he was in government under John Howard.

1069
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: He appoint or he created through legislation to have a

1070
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: National Small Business Commissioner, so that the Small Business Commissioner

1071
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 2: would be there to help small businesses engage with the government,

1072
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: both of the federal government and the local government, but

1073
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 2: also ensure that whoever's in government they engage with the

1074
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: Small Business Commissioner to ensure that they develop the right

1075
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: policies around assisting small businesses in Australia.

1076
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: And why do you think that small businesses don't have

1077
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: their own single portfolio in both at a federal and

1078
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: New South Wales at least and federal level. Why is

1079
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: it that it's not something sitting up there next to it,

1080
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: next to the treasurer.

1081
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: Look, look, I agree that's where it should be, and

1082
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: it should be in cabinet, but unfortunately the Small Business

1083
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: Minister always sits outside a cabinet and the small Business

1084
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: Minister probably has three or four other portfolios. Well, it's

1085
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 2: like with tourism and hospitality. I've always believed that we

1086
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: need to have a minister solely dedicated to hospitality and

1087
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: tourism because Australia employs thousands, if not millions of people

1088
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 2: in those two sectors right and same close to small business,

1089
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: they are the engine.

1090
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 1: Room of they're the biggest employer.

1091
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: I agree with you, and therefore they should be sitting

1092
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: with the treasure or the fire. I don't know. It's

1093
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: just frustrating. They're both at the federal level and even

1094
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 2: at the state level that is not done.

1095
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: It should be. But you've been around a long time

1096
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: watching this stuff. I don't know. The guy asked our

1097
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: minister for small business, who happens to be the minister

1098
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: for a number of other things at the state level,

1099
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: Steve I asked him the same question and he didn't

1100
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: have the answer, and I don't understand why. Like, if

1101
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: I was a premier of this state or the primes

1102
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: of this country, I would elevate and be part of

1103
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: my campaign. There would be a Minister for small business

1104
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: and that's all he or she was doing, and that

1105
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: person would be sitting in cabinet, that would be in

1106
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 1: my senior leadership team. They'd be up there with environment,

1107
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, employment, et cetera. Because for me, if we

1108
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 1: now look after them, you're not looking after anybody.

1109
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: Well, you're at the call face see. And it's not

1110
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: a criticism against Albanesi. All with men's they've never had

1111
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: a real job where they have employed people where they

1112
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: had to go and beg money from a bank, or

1113
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: they've had to set up, you know, a business of

1114
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: any sort. And I don't want to be critical. And

1115
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 2: that's not being critical of.

1116
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: It, that's just an observation.

1117
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: The fact is you've been it there, you've been there,

1118
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 2: you've understand, you totally see what needs to be done,

1119
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 2: and that's why you're advocating for it. And the same

1120
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: applies with me. I want to own a minister for

1121
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: Sydney because we've got so many different stakeholders in Sydney.

1122
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 2: We've got a minister for Western Sydney. We had a

1123
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: minister for the Hunter, We've got a minister, a minister

1124
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: for the Elawara, and a minister for the regions where

1125
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 2: we don't have a minister. Yeah yeah, well look I don't.

1126
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: Maybe the Premier tase that wrong, well, but he can't

1127
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: because he's the premier the whole New South Wales, so

1128
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: particularly but anyway, but sometimes politicians sort of said the

1129
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: bigger picture, and this is what's so frustrating.

1130
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 2: I agree with you. We do need to have a

1131
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: minister solely for small business, and that person should either

1132
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: be the Treasurer or the Finance Minister or a standalone minister,

1133
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 2: because it is the backbone and engine room of Australia

1134
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 2: and same applies in yourself ask But however, Minister Camper,

1135
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 2: he's got I think.

1136
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: He's got five or six different before he's got small business.

1137
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: He's got multi cultures, all the properties, so all the

1138
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: properties right, and how can you be on top of

1139
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: all clothes? It can't be when you've got different departments

1140
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: and different agencies. It is very difficult to solely focus

1141
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: on one or two of those portfolios. And that's why

1142
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: we need to have a separate small Business Minister, both

1143
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: at the federal level and at the state level, so

1144
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: that we can work with small business and ensure that

1145
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: whatever policies are developed are the ones that are going

1146
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: to work for small business and the ones that are

1147
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: going to be implemented that will help business get on

1148
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: with business. The only final thing I want to ask

1149
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: you about is what's slightly lighter topic, but what's your

1150
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: latest thing that you're really proud of, like accomplishment in

1151
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: your role now? Because I saw in the in the

1152
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: notes forty three thousand for a Darby day, a or

1153
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 1: Derby day. Is that one of your more recent sort

1154
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: of achievements for accomplishments.

1155
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 2: Oh, look, I'm one of my achievements is working with

1156
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: the state government. I love working with the Premier, I

1157
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: love working with the Treasurer. I love working with John

1158
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 2: Graham and Steve Camper and even Sophie Cotts has. These

1159
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: ministers are all relevant for business, which is really exciting.

1160
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: You know.

1161
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: For example, Steve sorry Steve Camper, he's also got responsibility

1162
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 2: to the fish markets. We're going to have the best

1163
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: fish markets in the world next year opened up right,

1164
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 2: and it's going to be fantastic. It's going to be

1165
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 2: one of the best fish markets in the world. And

1166
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: here it was the previous government that was under both

1167
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: Barrio Farrell Gladys and then Mike bed and donnic Perrite

1168
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: that made the commitment to build a brand new fish markets.

1169
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 2: Seeing the metro, I don't know if you've caught the metro,

1170
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: encourage you and those people listening to the podcast get

1171
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 2: on a metro. It is fantastic. The engineering, feat the

1172
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: quality of the everything that's been done around that is

1173
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: just fantastic. It's going to be a game changer. So

1174
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 2: supporting government on those type of initiatives is really important

1175
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 2: because it's helping business, but it's also helping the community

1176
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: get around Sydney, which is going to be fantastic. And

1177
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 2: the new metro line that's going to go out to

1178
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: Home Bush is going to be fantastic. So if we

1179
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 2: want to go watch rugby or we want to watch

1180
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: any sports at Homebush, we'll be able to get on

1181
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: at Hunter Street in the city and it will take

1182
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: you all the way through to Home Bush one stop

1183
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: and it will be and I think it's every four

1184
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: minutes is a metro coming through.

1185
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 1: That's why I'd like to travelated, because it's a punished

1186
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: parking out there.

1187
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1188
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: Oh it's terrible parking and out driving out especially we

1189
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 1: got to go there for a six o'clock match. You

1190
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: leave it for you get all the trades going home

1191
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: and it's like it's a nightmare. I would definitely catch that.

1192
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then you've got John Graham who's just now

1193
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: put together the first arts and cultural policy in Australia

1194
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 2: that's going to help arts and culture. I mean, arts

1195
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: and cultures are a very important part of New South Wales.

1196
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: If not, it's the heart and soul and I think

1197
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 2: now we've got the opportunity, with the policies that John

1198
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 2: Graham is put together, we're going to really ramp up

1199
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 2: arts and culture. I mean, there's something we should be

1200
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: promoting around the world because it's a hidden gem here

1201
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: in Sydney. Not many people know that.

1202
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know about these examples. I mean that's

1203
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a small but in a term, that's

1204
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: art and culture, and that is our art and our culture,

1205
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: not ours, but it's something that we live with and

1206
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 1: we should have a great appreciation of it. And giving

1207
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: away gifts like this is actually one way, like someone

1208
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: like me to become much more appreciative of that particular culture,

1209
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: which when I grew up we never had any exposure

1210
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: to him. The only exposure I ever had to Aboriginal

1211
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: culture was a science book called written by Harry Messel.

1212
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: It was a green covered book and there was one

1213
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: chapter on They weren't even called in Digitus, so just

1214
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: called aboriginals. There's one chapter on Aboriginal people, and I

1215
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: remember there was a photo of two naked Aboriginals. That's

1216
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: that's it, like standing there holding a boomerang and someone

1217
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: had a year or something I'm going back a long time,

1218
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: of course, but still that wasn't really pushed into us

1219
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: and or made available to us to even inquire about.

1220
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: And I think that's just a complete travesty for me,

1221
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: and I therefore grew up ignorant for a long long time.

1222
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: And it's only my own doing that I've become less ignorant,

1223
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: and also my exposure to individuals people who I know

1224
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: who are indigenous and therefore me making just a general

1225
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: inquiry in the terms of a particular inquiry, and so

1226
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: only through my own curiosity that I've actually become a

1227
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: bit more educated about it. So the more of that

1228
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: art and culture generally speaking, by the way, not just

1229
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: indigenous culture, Greek culture, French culture, Italian culture, Lebanese culture,

1230
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: Muslim culture, the Ramadan days and also the Jewish holidays,

1231
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: et cetera. We're so rich when it comes to culture

1232
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: in this joint mark.

1233
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 2: We've got the lucky ticket, yeah, the golden ticket, and

1234
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: you have to ask yourself, why were you born here

1235
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: or why did you migrate here? Sydney is just fantastic.

1236
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: You could go anywhere and you can try the different food,

1237
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 2: to try the different cultural aspects. We've got so much

1238
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: to offer. Sydney is just the best, I argue and

1239
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 2: I advocate that Sydney is the best city in the

1240
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 2: world to live culturally, culturally in a mix, in a

1241
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: mix exactly right. And yes it is expensive to live

1242
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: in Sydney, but if you're hard working, you're dedicated, committed,

1243
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: you can get things done. And so my parents came

1244
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: here like your parents came here. They came here with

1245
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: nothing right and they built up there. You know, their

1246
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: their their their life around working hard and working late nights, working,

1247
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 2: you know, committed to working and you know, looking after

1248
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: their children, but also running businesses and assimilating and similating,

1249
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 2: and they've done that so well. And I think we've

1250
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: got a great opportunity. I mean, Sydney has everything to

1251
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: offer and you know, if you if you don't take

1252
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: advantage of it, then you're going to miss out. And

1253
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, we're all

1254
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: lucky to live. Where else would you want to be

1255
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: in the back blocks of Ukraine or the back blocks

1256
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 2: of guard r or Afghanistan. I mean, how lucky are

1257
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: we to live in a country where you know the

1258
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 2: water is safe to drink, the area is safe to breathe,

1259
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: and we've got so many different opportunities. And this is

1260
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 2: why I do what I do with this while you

1261
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: do what you do, and why so many thousands of

1262
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 2: other Sydney Siders and Australians do what they do because

1263
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 2: they're very happy and they love living in Australia and

1264
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 2: we're so lucky to have what we have on offer.

1265
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: So long as we don't continue to get a growing

1266
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: sense of government overcoming us and you know, this process

1267
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: of slow strangulation for business owners with rules and regulations

1268
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: and departments and expectations and administration and filings and this

1269
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: regulation and that regulation. As long as we don't get

1270
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: that and it doesn't kill our spirit, and that's where

1271
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: people like you come in. But as long as we

1272
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: don't get our spirit killed, it will continue to be

1273
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: in the greatest place in the world, in particular Sydney,

1274
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: the greatest place in the world to live. Our culture, beauty, safety, security, opportunities,

1275
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: there are all the reason why our parents came here,

1276
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: and not just our parents, but all every other generation

1277
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: after that, you know, Asians and Lebanese and you know,

1278
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: various other generations just keep coming up. We're getting African

1279
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. That's why an acceptance too, to some extent,

1280
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: like acceptance of most cultures, we mostly accept every culture

1281
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: once we start to feel safe, we do. We do.

1282
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: But what we don't want, mate is is where you

1283
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: come in. What you guys do is we don't want

1284
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: to get Those people are all self starters, innovators, hard workers.

1285
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: We don't want to get and make it impossible for

1286
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: them to do what our parents did and what we've done.

1287
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: We don't want the next generation to be engulfed in

1288
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: process because institutions are taking control and making it just

1289
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: harder and harder and harder. We don't want our small

1290
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: business and our business community actually to shrink. We want

1291
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: to to grow and proliferate and to be a happy place.

1292
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: That's where Paorniccolo comes in. That's what your mob does.

1293
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: And that's why we've got to advocate for less red tape,

1294
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 2: less bureaucracy, because there's no incentive, as I was saying before,

1295
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: and we need to incentivize. And I really do believe

1296
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 2: that you were able to incentivize business people and individuals,

1297
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: they will capitalize on whatever opportunities they have. And I

1298
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 2: think we need to ensure that both the federal government,

1299
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: state government and local government look at internally all the time,

1300
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 2: what regulations, what red tape they can remove to ensure

1301
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: that small, medium, and even large businesses can continue doing

1302
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: what they do best. And we need to ensure that

1303
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: business is successful in this country because it is the

1304
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 2: lifeblood of the economy. It is the lifeblood of any

1305
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 2: government because they earn all this income from taxes and

1306
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: fees and charges. But we also need to make sure

1307
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: that it's fair and equitable, and we also need to

1308
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: make sure the government listens and government take on board

1309
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 2: the views and opinions of all Australians. And I think

1310
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: how lucky are we that we do have a democratic system.

1311
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look at what's going on in America or

1312
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: what you see in Italy and other countries around the

1313
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: world where you know their political systems don't work. Our

1314
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: political system works. It may not be the best, but

1315
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 2: our system of government works here in Australia. And everyone's

1316
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 2: got the opportunity to vote, whether it's local government, state government,

1317
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 2: or at a federal level. We've all got that opportunity.

1318
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 2: And I think local governments play an important role in

1319
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: the economy and they also play an important role with

1320
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: business and I think I'm encouraging everyone to go look

1321
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 2: at all the different candidates and make sure they pick

1322
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: the right candidates that are going to support business in

1323
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: their local areas.

1324
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: Poor Nicola, executive director of Business in him. Thanks very

1325
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: much mate, Thank you very much, Mark, and thank you

1326
01:03:44,200 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: very much to your listeners to your podcast Awesome What

1327
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: do we do do don't do