1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure Almam, 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: is Australia already falling behind on AI? The AI revolution 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: is still relatively new. GPT, for instance, has only just 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: turned two, and plenty of workplaces have started using the 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: technology for everything from writing reports and generating images to 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: improving the speed and performance of website chatbots. But new 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: research from Atlasian suggests we're falling behind in the AI boom, 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: with half of Australia's workers believing the technology is at 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: best an occasional tool in the workplace and at worst useless. 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: So are we serious about AI and Australia. Is the 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: tech industry and government doing enough to position ourselves to 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: make the most of it? Damien Casaji is the CEO 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: of the Tech Council of Australia. Damien, welcome to Fear 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: and Greed. 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: Good to be with you, Thanks for having me. 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: Are we falling behind an AI? 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: I think the opportunity is there for us to have. 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: From our perspective, what we're seeing is a lot of 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: development of AI in Australia, probably not enough and never enough, 20 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: but we do have a number of organizations working on 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 2: it and we do see the number of jobs increasing 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: in the space, So the opportunity is there, and we 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 2: have said that there's no reason why our country can't 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 2: go from thirty three thousand odd jobs in AI right 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: now to two hundred thousand by twenty thirty. We do 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: think that the growth and the opportunity is there, and 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: it's one of the missing pieces in this debate that 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people that work in their 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: full time role on an AI application, actually developing something 30 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: or using AI as part of their full time work. 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: Whether it's an engineer using a product like Copilot making 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: them twice as efficient as they would be otherwise, or 33 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: companies like Harrison AI that have popped up in Australia 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: around health at digital imaging to help doctors diagnose better. 35 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: So the opportunity is there. When we look at AI 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: from us for our perspective, this is not new. Yes, 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: it's new. Chat GPT is new, but if you were 38 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 2: to ask professors and university folks and business who have 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: been kind of thinking about this, you know this is 40 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: something that's been in the works for about ten years 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: and when we look at the kind of job numbers 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: in Australia only in twenty fourteen, we're looking at you know, 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: less than a thousand workers working in AI to over 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: thirty three thousand right now, and we believe that they 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: can get up to about two hundred thousand by twenty thirty. 46 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: So is it about getting businesses to better embrace it? 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: So I understand what you're saying, and I think it 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: is a huge opportunity. But to actually say that chat 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: GPT is useless, I think means that you don't actually 50 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: know what you're doing with chat GPT, because that is 51 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: a really extreme thing and even for minor things, chat 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: GPT can do some fantastic things right, and that's sort 53 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: of at the very basic level of AI. Is it 54 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: about trying to get business to learn it, to embrace it, 55 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: to actually use it better. 56 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, look, there's two broad areas here that we 57 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: talk about. Number one is the productivity games in relation 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: to the use of technology and AI, and that's where 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: we're falling behind. Our productivity levels in Australia are at 60 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: for the first time, not getting better, they're getting worse. 61 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: We're also seeing GDP per capita going backwards and we've 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: had the biggest reduction in GDP per capita in the 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: last few years than we've had in any time for 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: a long time. So from our perspective, there is more 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: to do here in relation to uptake and we do 66 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: believe that this is the great opportunity. Whether you're a 67 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: farmer thinking about how to ensure that your crops are 68 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: harvested and how you use technology in AI to enhance 69 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: your activity, or whether it's a small businesses using chatpt 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: or similar products to communicate with their customers. These are 71 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: the opportunities that we see that are important for the 72 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: economy from a wider and overall perspective, but where we 73 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: see huge opportunities actually in the development of AI here 74 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: in Australia. There's no reason why our engineers can't be 75 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: creating and helping adopt it. Leonardo AI just got brought 76 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: out by Canva, I think only three months ago, a 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: good example about the ecosystem working where something is created 78 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: in Australia and Camva being a global business already being 79 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: able to leverage that across the globe in the way 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: that Leonardo may not have been able to do. So. 81 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: From our perspective, there's the adoption, but just as critical 82 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 2: and even more important for the wealth and kind of 83 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: prosperity of this country is that we own some of this, 84 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: that we are not just receivers of the technology. We 85 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: are owners and producers of the technology that is going 86 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: to be taken up by folks around the world. 87 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: Does government have a role in this to ensure that 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: we do have an ecosystem that is friendly to AI manufacturers. 89 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. So, look, I mean from our perspective, 90 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 2: when you think about AI, it's closely linked to robotics. 91 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: It's closely linked to high end manufacturing. It's closely linked 92 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: to mining. It's closely linked to the services that we're 93 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 2: already good at. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. 94 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,559 Speaker 2: We are already good at agriculture, we're already good at mining. 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: So from our perspective, the best way that we can 96 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: use AIS thinking about how we can use it to 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: enhance the efficiency productivity of our current businesses. The role 98 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: of government is on two sides here. One is the 99 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: incentive side and the other side is the regulation side. 100 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: We've welcomed the conversation with government on this in relation 101 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: to thinking about AI from a risk based principles perspective 102 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: that not at all AI is equal that it is 103 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: concerning if there are deep fakes and pornographic images of 104 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: individuals or privacy that is being breached. That is a 105 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 2: problem we want to help fix that. We have folks 106 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: that are very smart within our organization that can help 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: the government think about that. But that is very different 108 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: to AI applications that are helping our energy grid use 109 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: less energy per person and burn less coal and make 110 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: energy itself more efficient. So I think of a company 111 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: like Nearer, for example, an Australian founded energy tech company 112 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: that is making the grid more efficient. Their product is 113 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: to make energy companies understand where their energy is, how 114 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: hot the copper can get or shouldn't get, how much 115 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: energy is going to individual households at different times of 116 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: the day, to ensure that the company is not spinning 117 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: out energy at two pm on a Tuesday afternoon when 118 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: no one's home versus eight pm on a Friday evening. 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: These are the kinds of technology that are very useful, 120 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: that are using AI, that are using machine learning in 121 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: a very very complex network such as energy, which helps 122 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: government reduce gold plating the energy lines and ensuring that 123 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: investment is done in the right way. So from our perspective. 124 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: There is a side here where government must be there 125 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: to protect and ensure safety, but also allow and enhance 126 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: the AI that's coming out of this country to flourish. 127 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: Okay, Damien, to stay with us in a moment, we'll 128 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: come back talk about what's happened five years time and 129 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: what it means for jobs. Okay, Damien, tell me the 130 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: big question for many people. I totally get the productivity gains, 131 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: and I appreciate that we could have two d thus 132 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand jobs in AI by the end of 133 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: the decade, But what about those being replaced? What happens there? 134 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: How do you answer that one? 135 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: It's a really good question, and I think the answer 136 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: is that we can only look at the numbers that 137 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: we are seeing in front of us, and we can 138 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: only go by what's happened in history so far. We 139 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: have had an industrial revolution. We have gone from very 140 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: basic societies to farming societies, from farming societies to societies 141 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: that are in factories. Two A conversation. If you were 142 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: to look at the conversation twenty thirty years ago with 143 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: the advent of the mobile phone, with the advent of 144 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: folks in call centers in other countries. There's all these 145 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: conversations about our jobs going and that there's going to 146 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: be less jobs for us because of technology that has 147 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: been proven wrong every single time there has been a 148 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: technology revolution. We are in a situation where Australia has 149 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: the lowest unemployment rate consistently over a long period of 150 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 2: time then for most of its history, and that's a 151 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: very good thing. Most people will tell you there is 152 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: a skills shortage that they can't find the workers to 153 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: do the things that they need to do, which is 154 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: hitting on our productivity and which is also hitting on 155 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: our inflation and the increased cost of pricing. So all 156 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: the economic indicators right now, even with the advent of 157 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: the technological revolution that we're currently going through, shows no 158 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: signs of impacting jobs as a whole. And that doesn't 159 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: mean that there's not going to be a change. That 160 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that there's not going to be retraining that 161 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that there's going to be different kinds 162 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: of jobs. But from our perspective, we are not a 163 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 2: doom and gloom around AI, especially over in the next decade. 164 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: The opportunity is there. What we are seeing though, is 165 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: workers using products for AI we are seeing nurses and 166 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: doctors using products that Harrison AI make. We are seeing 167 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: engineers using copile and other products to make themselves more 168 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: efficient in the workplace. And with the unemployment at where 169 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: it is, we're not taking a doom and gloom perspective 170 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 2: in relation to this. 171 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's think about five ten years ahead. And 172 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: I know that recently the Tech Council or at least 173 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: research showing how lifting investment in R and D and 174 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: tech adoption could contribute about one hundred and sixty seven 175 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: billion dollars to GDP. With that in mind, where do 176 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: you hope will be in five or ten years in 177 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: terms of use of AI, in terms of productivity improvements. 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get my head around, you know how 179 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: it can somehow quantify this stuff. 180 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, I mean the old quantifier. We are 181 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: a full percentage point of GDP behind the OECD average 182 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: when it comes to R and D and investment in 183 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: this country. So we are well behind the US a 184 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: third difference in relation to investment per capita. We're behind Canada. 185 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: We're behind most of the OECD countries in relation to 186 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: overall R and D investment and tech investment in this 187 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: country versus most of the not only comparable countries, but 188 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: countries that we should be ahead of. So that is 189 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: a very very quantifiable fact. When we look at the 190 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: weddings in Australia, we have great talent. This is a 191 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: great place to live. But the things that we absolutely 192 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: need to work on is how do we keep companies 193 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: in Australia working on R and D. When we look 194 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: at the R and D tax incentive, we cap it 195 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: out at a certain size, so it's great for early stage, 196 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: it's great for early stage, and we see our companies 197 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: use it. There's been a seismic shift in relation to 198 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: the Tax Office reporting showing that tech now is the 199 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: greatest user of the R and D tax incentive and 200 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: it's taken over mining that This is a big shift 201 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: that's happening in the economy and we need to not 202 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 2: only enhance that harness it. When we look to the US, 203 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: there is no limit in relation to the size your 204 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: company can becomes for you to get R and D 205 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: tax incentive. So what happens in Australia is that you 206 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 2: get an incentive up to a certain point that it 207 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: makes actually more sense we hire your engineers or hire 208 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: those that are working on your IP in the US 209 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: because you're incentivized to do that no matter how large 210 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: or your company become. So that's just one idea. But 211 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: when we kind of look at this, this is not 212 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: just something about government. This is about how we think 213 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: about investment. There's three point five trillion dollars worth of 214 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 2: retirement savings in this country and most people don't realize 215 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: that only a tiny fraction of that is being put 216 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: into VC or what I would call longer term type investments. 217 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 2: If only one percent of that was used for tech 218 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: R and D type of investments, that would be triple 219 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: our full VC money pot at the moment. So the 220 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 2: opportunity is there. We do have the capital. It is 221 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: about how we think about using that capital, incentivizing that 222 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: capital to be used in the right way. But look numerically, 223 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 2: there is. 224 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: A whole Absolutely, Damien, thank you for talking to Fear 225 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: and Greed. 226 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: Great good to be with you. 227 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: That was Damien Kasaji, CEO of the Tech Council of Australia. 228 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us 229 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: every morning for the full of us. If you're in 230 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: Greed daily businesses for people who make their own decisions. 231 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm chanelma enjoy your day.