1 00:00:03,450 --> 00:00:06,260 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,260 --> 00:00:09,980 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Something a bit different today. Last year, we talked 3 00:00:09,980 --> 00:00:12,810 Sean Aylmer: a bit about a new campaign to raise awareness for 4 00:00:12,810 --> 00:00:15,660 Sean Aylmer: men's mental health. If you haven't seen the video of 5 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:18,669 Sean Aylmer: Boys do Cry, a reworked version of Boys Don't Cry, 6 00:00:18,670 --> 00:00:21,620 Sean Aylmer: by The Cure, I'd highly recommend it. It's very, very 7 00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:25,160 Sean Aylmer: powerful. The campaign was developed by a number of organizations. 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,100 Sean Aylmer: One of them being mental fitness foundation, Gotcha4Life. The founder 9 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:32,850 Sean Aylmer: of Gotcha4Life is TV and radio presenter, Gus Worland. Gus, 10 00:00:32,850 --> 00:00:33,360 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:34,130 --> 00:00:34,340 Gus Worland: Good day, Sean. 12 00:00:35,550 --> 00:00:41,010 Sean Aylmer: Now, the statistics around suicide in Australia are horrifying. It's 13 00:00:41,010 --> 00:00:44,080 Sean Aylmer: a leading cause of death in Australians between 15 and 44. 14 00:00:44,409 --> 00:00:48,099 Sean Aylmer: Nine Australians take their own life every day. The main 15 00:00:48,100 --> 00:00:52,300 Sean Aylmer: mission of Gotcha4Life is to end suicide. And, for you, 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,630 Sean Aylmer: the motivation for starting the foundation was very personal. 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,500 Gus Worland: Yeah, absolutely. A friend of mine who... Superheroes don't always 18 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:02,670 Gus Worland: need to wear capes. And this bloke was certainly like 19 00:01:02,670 --> 00:01:05,589 Gus Worland: that for me, he was my cousin's husband. I absolutely 20 00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:08,390 Gus Worland: adored him. My father had left the family home when I 21 00:01:08,540 --> 00:01:11,209 Gus Worland: was quite young. So he took over that role of 22 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:14,920 Gus Worland: dad and big brother and someone that I could talk 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,649 Gus Worland: to about everything. And I just adored him and he 24 00:01:18,650 --> 00:01:20,610 Gus Worland: took his life on the day that his third and 25 00:01:20,610 --> 00:01:24,679 Gus Worland: final child finished their HSC. And it really rocked me 26 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,720 Gus Worland: for many, many years. And, at the time, I was 27 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,610 Gus Worland: on Breakfast Radio on Triple M and, eventually one morning, 28 00:01:30,610 --> 00:01:32,840 Gus Worland: I spoke about it. I opened up and I led with 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:37,030 Gus Worland: some vulnerability. And the moment I did that I felt better 30 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,750 Gus Worland: about myself and I was lucky enough to then have 31 00:01:40,750 --> 00:01:44,730 Gus Worland: someone in the car, driving their sons to school who 32 00:01:44,730 --> 00:01:47,540 Gus Worland: listened to it. And she had just won a bursary 33 00:01:47,540 --> 00:01:51,010 Gus Worland: from Movember to do some type of media campaign around 34 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:55,040 Gus Worland: masculinity in this country and suicide and suicide prevention. And 35 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:58,300 Gus Worland: we then got together and did the show Man Up. 36 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:00,800 Gus Worland: And that really was my journey on why my friend 37 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,460 Gus Worland: had taken his own life, a bloke that seemed to have everything, status inside, 38 00:02:04,460 --> 00:02:08,930 Gus Worland: outside of work, good looking family man, lots of friends, 39 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,820 Gus Worland: no financial troubles. And he decided to end his life 40 00:02:12,820 --> 00:02:15,149 Gus Worland: on the day that, as I said, his third child finished 41 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,570 Gus Worland: their HSC. And I never quite got over it. I still 42 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,810 Gus Worland: worry about it today and worry what I could have done. And, 43 00:02:23,220 --> 00:02:26,910 Gus Worland: anyway, I decided to do the Man Up program. Then, after that, Gotcha4Life 44 00:02:26,910 --> 00:02:31,010 Gus Worland: started. Now I've dedicated my life to suicide prevention through 45 00:02:31,010 --> 00:02:34,850 Gus Worland: education and getting that suicide rate down to zero because, as 46 00:02:34,850 --> 00:02:37,859 Gus Worland: you said, seven men every day, two women every day, 47 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:42,070 Gus Worland: plus the stat you didn't mention, Sean, was 65, 000 people 48 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,531 Gus Worland: attempt suicide in Australia every year, which is won every 28 seconds. 49 00:02:45,531 --> 00:02:45,960 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,829 Gus Worland: So, we've been chatting now for only about three minutes. 51 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:52,290 Gus Worland: Well, six people have phoned the ambulance in this country 52 00:02:52,570 --> 00:02:55,760 Gus Worland: since you started chatting to say, " Can you please save 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,410 Gus Worland: me?" So we've got a massive issue and we need 54 00:02:58,410 --> 00:03:00,730 Gus Worland: to deal with it the best we possibly can. And 55 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:02,669 Gus Worland: that's what Gotcha4Life was built for. 56 00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:05,950 Sean Aylmer: Why are there more men committing suicide than women? 57 00:03:06,669 --> 00:03:09,560 Gus Worland: Well, firstly, they're more risk taking. So they tend to 58 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,730 Gus Worland: do it in a way that it won't fail. That's 59 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:14,570 Gus Worland: one thing. Secondly, we are more likely to do it 60 00:03:14,570 --> 00:03:16,929 Gus Worland: because we don't have that support network around us to 61 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:20,070 Gus Worland: actually talk to or feel that we can talk to 62 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:22,709 Gus Worland: because we've been told all our lives to live up 63 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:25,260 Gus Worland: to a stereotype, which is all about, " Just get on 64 00:03:25,260 --> 00:03:28,100 Gus Worland: with it. Don't bother people with your own dramas. Everyone's 65 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:31,210 Gus Worland: got dramas, just man up. Take a teaspoon of cement 66 00:03:31,210 --> 00:03:32,250 Gus Worland: and harden the you know what up." 67 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:32,450 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 68 00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:35,890 Gus Worland: It's a very difficult thing to unlearn., That type of 69 00:03:35,890 --> 00:03:38,840 Gus Worland: behavior. And men are taught that right from the start of 70 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,480 Gus Worland: their lives. I think it's definitely getting better. My son's 71 00:03:41,510 --> 00:03:44,280 Gus Worland: 22 and he's more likely now to talk about his 72 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,020 Gus Worland: feelings than I ever was. And my father, I'm still trying 73 00:03:47,020 --> 00:03:48,330 Gus Worland: to get an, " I love you" out of him and 74 00:03:48,930 --> 00:03:53,100 Gus Worland: he's in his mid eighties. And his father, my grandfather, was 75 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:55,940 Gus Worland: very much even more the same. So we're slowly getting 76 00:03:55,940 --> 00:03:59,440 Gus Worland: there. It's a generational thing, but it's like turning around the QE2. It's going to 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Gus Worland: take time. But, as long as we are turning, we'll 78 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:02,610 Gus Worland: get there. 79 00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:07,040 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So mental health is such a major issue and 80 00:04:07,220 --> 00:04:10,020 Sean Aylmer: it's certainly coming to the forefront of debate, though it's 81 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:12,950 Sean Aylmer: probably not quite where it should be yet. Think about 82 00:04:12,950 --> 00:04:15,630 Sean Aylmer: the crisis in the Australian Parliament at the moment, Brittany 83 00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:17,690 Sean Aylmer: Higgins and Grace Tame, a couple of days ago, talking at 84 00:04:17,690 --> 00:04:18,990 Sean Aylmer: the National Press Club. 85 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:19,340 Gus Worland: Yeah. 86 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,900 Sean Aylmer: About not exactly suicide, but certainly mental health issues and 87 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:27,070 Sean Aylmer: trauma as a result of abuse and incredibly poor behavior. 88 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,800 Sean Aylmer: How does it all work? Does it all work together? 89 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:34,780 Sean Aylmer: How do we, as a society, somehow address this stuff? 90 00:04:35,130 --> 00:04:37,810 Gus Worland: Yeah. It's so big. You're right, Sean. It's a very, very difficult 91 00:04:37,810 --> 00:04:39,880 Gus Worland: thing to look at, if you look at the whole 92 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,580 Gus Worland: big thing. So, what I tend to do is try 93 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:44,300 Gus Worland: to make it as simple as possible. And for you 94 00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:48,410 Gus Worland: and your listeners to go, " You know what? Mental health 95 00:04:48,410 --> 00:04:51,050 Gus Worland: is a huge issue. Let's call it mental fitness." That's 96 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:53,890 Gus Worland: the first thing I'd like to change because " Mental fitness" 97 00:04:53,890 --> 00:04:56,029 Gus Worland: makes you think that it's a bit like your physical fitness. 98 00:04:56,029 --> 00:04:58,150 Gus Worland: It's something that you can work on, it's not someone 99 00:04:58,150 --> 00:05:00,610 Gus Worland: else's issue. We might have to work on it more 100 00:05:00,610 --> 00:05:02,870 Gus Worland: than the person next door, but we're all working on 101 00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:05,810 Gus Worland: something to make ourselves better and more fit, whether it's 102 00:05:05,810 --> 00:05:09,070 Gus Worland: physical or mental. So let's normalize the conversation by calling 103 00:05:09,070 --> 00:05:12,150 Gus Worland: it mental fitness. That's point number one. Point number two 104 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:13,740 Gus Worland: then is to go, " You know what? If you look 105 00:05:13,740 --> 00:05:16,409 Gus Worland: at the world problem, the global issues and then Australia's 106 00:05:16,410 --> 00:05:19,210 Gus Worland: issues, it's just too big. So let's look after our 107 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:22,150 Gus Worland: own backyard." And what I talk to with corporates now 108 00:05:22,150 --> 00:05:24,790 Gus Worland: is looking after your own village. And that is literally 109 00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:27,490 Gus Worland: getting a pen and paper, not a laptop, not a 110 00:05:27,490 --> 00:05:31,870 Gus Worland: computer, not a iPhone or anything like that, get a 111 00:05:31,870 --> 00:05:34,830 Gus Worland: pen and paper and write down a list of the people that 112 00:05:34,830 --> 00:05:37,260 Gus Worland: you love and adore, that you cannot imagine living without. 113 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,290 Gus Worland: That is your village. Then go to work with that 114 00:05:40,290 --> 00:05:42,300 Gus Worland: village and let them know how much you love them. 115 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,660 Gus Worland: Lead with vulnerability. Tell them how you feel about them. 116 00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:47,740 Gus Worland: Tell them why you admire them. Tell them why you're 117 00:05:47,740 --> 00:05:50,549 Gus Worland: in the village. Open up a conversation that is a 118 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:52,960 Gus Worland: little bit out of control, one that we're not normally 119 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,960 Gus Worland: used to, one that you're going to have to muscle 120 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,100 Gus Worland: down with at times, or sit in some vulnerable silence. 121 00:05:58,330 --> 00:06:01,040 Gus Worland: But dare the moment. So if you just look after the 122 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,010 Gus Worland: people that we love and adore, then that starts a relationship 123 00:06:05,050 --> 00:06:07,010 Gus Worland: or a set of people that love each other on a 124 00:06:07,010 --> 00:06:10,040 Gus Worland: much deeper level, kinder to each other. And that means 125 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,380 Gus Worland: that we probably won't worry alone. And worrying alone, I 126 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:15,859 Gus Worland: think is the most important thing, Sean, because us, blokes, 127 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,380 Gus Worland: we make to see in our own heads without verbalizing, we 128 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:22,150 Gus Worland: can make some really poor decisions. So it's all about 129 00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:24,029 Gus Worland: building your village and letting them know that it's all 130 00:06:24,029 --> 00:06:27,549 Gus Worland: right to have conversations of gravity outside of banter. And 131 00:06:27,550 --> 00:06:29,770 Gus Worland: then, once you've got that relationship set up, and it 132 00:06:29,770 --> 00:06:31,900 Gus Worland: takes time to do it, it's a bit like physical 133 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:34,029 Gus Worland: fitness, you to keep going back to the gym, you 134 00:06:34,029 --> 00:06:36,890 Gus Worland: need to keep going back to the conversation, but you'll eventually 135 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:39,320 Gus Worland: get there. And that's what I've done over the last five years. And 136 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:41,890 Gus Worland: I think if you ask my wife, my friends, my 137 00:06:41,890 --> 00:06:45,040 Gus Worland: children, I'm a much better person, much better at those 138 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,640 Gus Worland: roles than I ever was by being vulnerable and just saying, " 139 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,570 Gus Worland: You know what? I haven't swallowed the map here. I've 140 00:06:50,570 --> 00:06:52,500 Gus Worland: got a lot of learning to do." And letting them 141 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:54,250 Gus Worland: know that I just love them and, " Can you go on 142 00:06:54,250 --> 00:06:56,580 Gus Worland: this journey with me?" We need more of that. It 143 00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:58,750 Gus Worland: doesn't mean we're not resilient, it doesn't mean we don't 144 00:06:58,750 --> 00:07:00,950 Gus Worland: step up to the mark and it doesn't mean that 145 00:07:00,950 --> 00:07:04,370 Gus Worland: we have vulnerable conversations or burst into tears every five 146 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:07,039 Gus Worland: minutes. It just means, at the right time, we can 147 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,960 Gus Worland: set the right scene to have the right conversations. And 148 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,840 Gus Worland: we're not having enough of those in Australia. So don't look at 149 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,530 Gus Worland: it as a big, huge issue. Just look at it 150 00:07:15,770 --> 00:07:18,190 Gus Worland: as if, " You know what? I'm just going to look after own 151 00:07:18,190 --> 00:07:20,560 Gus Worland: village." Write that village down. I started with a list, 152 00:07:20,750 --> 00:07:23,741 Gus Worland: Sean, of about 15 people. I've got it down to nine now. 153 00:07:23,741 --> 00:07:23,742 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 154 00:07:23,742 --> 00:07:26,860 Gus Worland: There's nine people that I check in with every single 155 00:07:26,860 --> 00:07:29,120 Gus Worland: day. And they know that they can come to me 156 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,680 Gus Worland: with absolutely any problem. It doesn't mean that I can 157 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,850 Gus Worland: fix it, but it means that I can be part 158 00:07:33,850 --> 00:07:36,260 Gus Worland: of their team in getting through the type of you 159 00:07:36,260 --> 00:07:37,700 Gus Worland: know what that life throws at us. 160 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,070 Sean Aylmer: It's actually quite difficult. You mentioned the other guys on 161 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:42,210 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed team, Michael Thompson, who does a 162 00:07:42,210 --> 00:07:45,100 Sean Aylmer: regular show with us, Adam Lang, who does the Sunday 163 00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:48,380 Sean Aylmer: Show. I know those guys so well and I admire 164 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:51,750 Sean Aylmer: both of them for who they are as individuals, their 165 00:07:51,810 --> 00:07:55,730 Sean Aylmer: professionalism. But it's still hard for me to be vulnerable 166 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:58,400 Sean Aylmer: to them, to not make a quip about what one 167 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,210 Sean Aylmer: of them is doing. It's actually hard as a man 168 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:02,640 Sean Aylmer: to be vulnerable. 169 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:06,390 Gus Worland: It is, absolutely. That's why we have to work at it. That's why you need to get more 170 00:08:06,390 --> 00:08:08,330 Gus Worland: mentally fit. That's why you have to go to some 171 00:08:08,330 --> 00:08:11,520 Gus Worland: workshops. You need to go and listen to a podcast. 172 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,870 Gus Worland: You need to go and get a book. You need to go and 173 00:08:13,870 --> 00:08:17,730 Gus Worland: start having some vulnerable conversations, which are a struggle. Sean, 174 00:08:17,810 --> 00:08:21,140 Gus Worland: you can talk, it's obvious. You are talking, you're intelligent, 175 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:23,620 Gus Worland: you know what you're talking about. You might have a conversation where 176 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:26,320 Gus Worland: the words are stuck somewhere in your guts and you 177 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,420 Gus Worland: can't quite get the words out, and then you start 178 00:08:28,420 --> 00:08:30,680 Gus Worland: crying and then the snot starts running out of your 179 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,760 Gus Worland: nose. These are uncomfortable positions and blokes hate to be 180 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:36,610 Gus Worland: out of control. 181 00:08:36,710 --> 00:08:36,770 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 182 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,410 Gus Worland: We hate to feel as if we haven't got our 183 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:39,370 Gus Worland: you know what together. 184 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:39,660 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 185 00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:41,580 Gus Worland: So, at the end to the day, you're going to have to go, 186 00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:44,110 Gus Worland: it's like that first gym session after not going for 187 00:08:44,330 --> 00:08:45,179 Gus Worland: a year or whatever. 188 00:08:45,179 --> 00:08:45,199 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, that's right. 189 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:48,699 Gus Worland: You are going to hurt, you're going to have to go to the physio afterwards. You're 190 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:51,040 Gus Worland: going to hate your personal trainer. You're going to ache 191 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,179 Gus Worland: the next couple of days. Well, you know what? It's 192 00:08:53,179 --> 00:08:54,650 Gus Worland: going to be easier in a month if you keep 193 00:08:54,650 --> 00:08:56,780 Gus Worland: going, it'll be easier in six months if you keep 194 00:08:56,780 --> 00:09:00,030 Gus Worland: going. And, if you show your leadership to your children, 195 00:09:00,130 --> 00:09:01,730 Gus Worland: and all of a sudden they look at dad and go, " 196 00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:03,660 Gus Worland: You know what? That's what it takes to be a 197 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:06,390 Gus Worland: man? I want a bit of that." Rather than, " You 198 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:08,610 Gus Worland: know what? Dad always seems to have his you know 199 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:11,640 Gus Worland: what together." Sean, I had a wonderful conversation through the 200 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,650 Gus Worland: Man Up filming with my son, Jack. And I said 201 00:09:14,650 --> 00:09:16,690 Gus Worland: to him, " Jack, I just want to tell you something. I don't 202 00:09:16,950 --> 00:09:19,040 Gus Worland: have the answers to everything you ask me, but I 203 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,340 Gus Worland: try my best with a bit of experience, a little 204 00:09:21,590 --> 00:09:23,069 Gus Worland: bit of knowledge, a little bit of common sense, I 205 00:09:23,070 --> 00:09:25,890 Gus Worland: try to come up with the right response. But most 206 00:09:25,890 --> 00:09:27,610 Gus Worland: of the time I'm BS- ing you." And he looked 207 00:09:27,610 --> 00:09:29,250 Gus Worland: at me and goes, " What do you mean?" I go, " Well, blokes don't 208 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:32,819 Gus Worland: have all the answers." And it was a huge relief 209 00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:33,189 Gus Worland: to him. 210 00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:33,640 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 211 00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:35,959 Gus Worland: He was like, " Oh my God, I not going to have to have 212 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,900 Gus Worland: all the answers when I'm 18? When I start learning 213 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:40,569 Gus Worland: to drive, start having a drink, need to have a 214 00:09:40,570 --> 00:09:42,650 Gus Worland: vote? I don't have to have all the answers?" I go, " No, 215 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:45,010 Gus Worland: mate, we're all making it up as we go along 216 00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:46,201 Gus Worland: here and we're just doing the best we can." 217 00:09:46,201 --> 00:09:46,581 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 218 00:09:46,940 --> 00:09:48,359 Gus Worland: And it was a huge relief to him. And I 219 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,929 Gus Worland: think all parents, and dads in particular, need to show 220 00:09:51,929 --> 00:09:55,190 Gus Worland: that vulnerability to their own family, so it just takes the pressure 221 00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:56,120 Gus Worland: off their own kids. 222 00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:58,109 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Gus. We'll be back in a minute. 223 00:09:58,110 --> 00:10:06,179 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Gus Worland, radio and TV presenter, 224 00:10:06,179 --> 00:10:10,060 Sean Aylmer: and the founder of Gotcha4Life. So what does Gotcha4Life need? 225 00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:12,679 Sean Aylmer: Your name's often mentioned with Hugh Jackman's name. You were 226 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,730 Sean Aylmer: school friends, you've been close ever since, he's on the 227 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:19,760 Sean Aylmer: advisory board. Clearly star power helps. What about corporate backing? 228 00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:23,849 Gus Worland: Oh look, absolutely. The most important thing, Sean, is having 229 00:10:23,850 --> 00:10:26,660 Gus Worland: money so I can give it to facilitators who then 230 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:30,500 Gus Worland: go out to sports clubs, corporations, schools, whoever needs it, and 231 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:33,470 Gus Worland: actually goes and presents the workshops. That's the absolute key. 232 00:10:33,470 --> 00:10:37,600 Gus Worland: So it's really quite raw, whatever fundraise we do and 233 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,470 Gus Worland: people are wonderful to us. So we've got a couple 234 00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:42,640 Gus Worland: of hundred community events going on at any one time. 235 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,589 Gus Worland: We had a bloke barefoot walk from Cairns to Sydney 236 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:47,699 Gus Worland: and raised a hundred grand. We've got a lady at 237 00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:50,450 Gus Worland: the moment who is in a kayak, that is working 238 00:10:50,450 --> 00:10:53,920 Gus Worland: her way around the entire country of Australia, and she's 239 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,640 Gus Worland: raising money. I've got a lady who's about to swim 240 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,720 Gus Worland: the English Channel, between England and France, she's got fundraisers 241 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,350 Gus Worland: and so forth. We just had four boys from a 242 00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:07,070 Gus Worland: couple of different private schools in Sydney, just row across 243 00:11:07,070 --> 00:11:07,740 Gus Worland: the Atlantic. 244 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:07,760 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 245 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,579 Gus Worland: That's happening all the time. But, without people like Shaw 246 00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:13,960 Gus Worland: and Partners, who have been a great support, without Chemist 247 00:11:14,059 --> 00:11:16,550 Gus Worland: Warehouse, who have been with me right from day one, 248 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:18,980 Gus Worland: they give us a month for of June where there's 249 00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:21,520 Gus Worland: a certain amount of products that go into Chemist Warehouse 250 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,820 Gus Worland: and 5% or $ 5 might come to us. They've given 251 00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:28,860 Gus Worland: us a million dollars one year, 650,000 another. It's amazing. 252 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:30,990 Gus Worland: And we've given $ 7 million away now to people that 253 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,940 Gus Worland: work in suicide prevention. But I only want to get 254 00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:36,970 Gus Worland: bigger because I want to get more facilitators out there. 255 00:11:36,970 --> 00:11:40,460 Gus Worland: More facilitators mean more people get the workshops, more people 256 00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:43,400 Gus Worland: will get mentally fit and more people will then stop 257 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,080 Gus Worland: thinking about suicide. And, as you said off the top, 258 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,380 Gus Worland: Sean, it's all about zero suicides. One's too many. So, 259 00:11:49,690 --> 00:11:52,059 Gus Worland: for me, anyone listening who would like to support us 260 00:11:52,059 --> 00:11:55,170 Gus Worland: with a fundraiser or would just like to meet me to talk 261 00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:58,809 Gus Worland: about our vision and go through exactly what our thoughts 262 00:11:58,809 --> 00:12:02,300 Gus Worland: are and then back us as a corporate, absolutely. That's what it's 263 00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:04,569 Gus Worland: all about. It's a bit crude to say it that 264 00:12:04,570 --> 00:12:06,390 Gus Worland: way. But really, that's what it's all about. 265 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:09,440 Sean Aylmer: Do you have a sense, Gus, of how many people 266 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:11,410 Sean Aylmer: you've helped or saved? 267 00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:14,770 Gus Worland: Well, I get about a thousand messages a day, Sean, 268 00:12:14,770 --> 00:12:18,579 Gus Worland: to my Messenger or through my socials and I can't 269 00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:20,849 Gus Worland: get hold and back to most of them because it's 270 00:12:20,850 --> 00:12:23,420 Gus Worland: just too many people. It's 30,000 people a month, if 271 00:12:23,420 --> 00:12:24,040 Gus Worland: you look at it that way. 272 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:24,330 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 273 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,929 Gus Worland: So what I tend to do is, when people come 274 00:12:28,929 --> 00:12:30,550 Gus Worland: up to me in the street and I've been so 275 00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:33,700 Gus Worland: fortunate that that's happened a few times, one in per particular, 276 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:36,770 Gus Worland: I was running the half marathon as part of me 277 00:12:36,770 --> 00:12:40,020 Gus Worland: getting ready for a run that I had done after the New 278 00:12:40,020 --> 00:12:43,000 Gus Worland: York Marathon. And you probably name me, Sean, I don't 279 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Gus Worland: look like a runner. I'm not a very good runner. 280 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,960 Sean Aylmer: No, but you did very well with that. You did a great job 281 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:47,420 Sean Aylmer: becoming a runner. 282 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:54,490 Gus Worland: I was the back of the pack. There's no doubt. I was with a few mates and they were helping me and it was freezing cold down in Canberra. And this 283 00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:57,870 Gus Worland: bloke buzz past us the other way. So he'd gone to the turning 284 00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:00,840 Gus Worland: point and was running back into Canberra. And he said, " Gus, 285 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:02,880 Gus Worland: you saved my life. I love your brother." Like that. 286 00:13:03,630 --> 00:13:04,110 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 287 00:13:04,110 --> 00:13:07,280 Gus Worland: And I was like, "What did that guy say?" And one of my mates said, "" I think he said you saved 288 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,870 Gus Worland: his life." I went, " Oh, wow. I wonder what that was all about." Anyway. 289 00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:10,280 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 290 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,410 Gus Worland: I got to the turning point. I then ran back 291 00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:15,580 Gus Worland: into Canberra and, there, this tall bloke was, he's a 292 00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:17,990 Gus Worland: 60 kilos ringing wet. He had one of those silver 293 00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:20,240 Gus Worland: sheets around him and he was nibbling on a banana 294 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Gus Worland: and a muesli bar. And he goes, " Bloody hell. I've 295 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,240 Gus Worland: been waiting for you for an hour." I said, " Sorry, 296 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,679 Gus Worland: mate. I've only got one pace." And he said, " Look, 297 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,819 Gus Worland: I just want to tell you the story of what I meant when 298 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:36,800 Gus Worland: I said that." And it's actually quite emotional, Sean, to 299 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,809 Gus Worland: talk about this because he said to me, " I planned 300 00:13:39,809 --> 00:13:43,959 Gus Worland: to kill myself on this particular evening. And I thought 301 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,650 Gus Worland: I'd just go and see my mum and dad." And they 302 00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:50,370 Gus Worland: lived in Belrose, on the Northern beaches of Sydney. And 303 00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:52,170 Gus Worland: he said, " I just knocked on the door and dad 304 00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:54,929 Gus Worland: answered the door and he went, 'What are you doing here?'" And he goes, " 305 00:13:54,929 --> 00:13:56,890 Gus Worland: Oh, I just thought I'd pop in for a cup 306 00:13:56,890 --> 00:13:58,860 Gus Worland: of tea." And they were watching Man Up and it 307 00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:00,850 Gus Worland: was paused and they all sat down with a cup 308 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:03,960 Gus Worland: and eventually they turned the show back on again and 309 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,559 Gus Worland: they listened and they watched. And he said, " I never 310 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,390 Gus Worland: would've watched the ABC." He said, " I haven't had the 311 00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:12,420 Gus Worland: ABC on forever," that he can remember. Certainly since he 312 00:14:12,420 --> 00:14:14,620 Gus Worland: moved out of home and he was in his forties 313 00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:18,090 Gus Worland: now. So he just listened to the Man Up program 314 00:14:18,090 --> 00:14:20,000 Gus Worland: and he said, " You know what? This is not going 315 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Gus Worland: to be my farewell to my mom and dad. I'm 316 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,530 Gus Worland: actually going to come back and watch the show next 317 00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:24,741 Gus Worland: Wednesday." And he made a bit of a date- 318 00:14:24,741 --> 00:14:24,742 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 319 00:14:24,742 --> 00:14:27,190 Gus Worland: ... With his mom and dad that he'd come back and 320 00:14:27,190 --> 00:14:29,730 Gus Worland: have dinner next Wednesday. And he did that the next 321 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:33,040 Gus Worland: two Wednesdays. And he then decided not to take his 322 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,500 Gus Worland: life because something just triggered in him with the stuff 323 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,720 Gus Worland: that he had heard on the show. And he actually 324 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,040 Gus Worland: had bought a rope at Bunnings. And he took the 325 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,810 Gus Worland: rope back to Bunnings and got his money back, which 326 00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:48,920 Gus Worland: he was very happy about. It was so funny that 327 00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:50,979 Gus Worland: the show had saved his life, but he seemed to 328 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:53,170 Gus Worland: be more excited about getting his money back- 329 00:14:53,620 --> 00:14:53,621 Sean Aylmer: Symbolic. 330 00:14:53,621 --> 00:14:57,900 Gus Worland: ... Within 21 days of buying it. Anyway, that's just 331 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,380 Gus Worland: that Aussie sense of humor, I suppose. And he took 332 00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:03,240 Gus Worland: the rope back, he got his money back and then 333 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,780 Gus Worland: he just remembered that he was actually quite a good 334 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:07,860 Gus Worland: runner and that actually used to make him feel good. 335 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:10,890 Gus Worland: But he was so depressed, he was so focused and 336 00:15:10,890 --> 00:15:15,140 Gus Worland: narrow minded on destruction that he had actually forgotten about 337 00:15:15,140 --> 00:15:18,330 Gus Worland: the things that had actually made him happy in his 338 00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:20,710 Gus Worland: life. So he started running again and that just gave 339 00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:24,500 Gus Worland: him his physical change and the running and what was 340 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,229 Gus Worland: happening with the athletics and the physical move made him 341 00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:29,740 Gus Worland: feel better. Then, he decided to have the guts to 342 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:31,729 Gus Worland: go and talk to a mate about how he felt. 343 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:33,590 Gus Worland: And then his mate went, " Well, I feel the same 344 00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:35,360 Gus Worland: way. This is a bloke that I went and saw." 345 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,240 Gus Worland: And so he went and saw him and there was 346 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,490 Gus Worland: a connection with him and the counselor. Now he's up 347 00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:44,180 Gus Worland: and about again, he has a process in place every 348 00:15:44,180 --> 00:15:46,710 Gus Worland: day where he just gets on with it. So we 349 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:50,240 Gus Worland: could have lost another one. And I've had maybe a 350 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,020 Gus Worland: couple of hundred people say to me, on Messenger and 351 00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:57,300 Gus Worland: Facebook and that sort of stuff, that I saved their 352 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,130 Gus Worland: life, but I've never had someone literally say it to 353 00:16:00,130 --> 00:16:02,740 Gus Worland: my face like he did that day. And my mates 354 00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:05,200 Gus Worland: were all around, he told the story and we drove 355 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,190 Gus Worland: back to Sydney and that's all we could talk about, 356 00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:11,770 Gus Worland: of course. And, Sean, that makes all the hard work- 357 00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:13,580 Sean Aylmer: That is a beautiful story. 358 00:16:13,790 --> 00:16:16,430 Gus Worland: Yeah, it is. And, of course, I know we can't 359 00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:19,010 Gus Worland: save them all. And, like you say, we lose seven 360 00:16:19,010 --> 00:16:21,700 Gus Worland: a day men and two women. But we did have 361 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,500 Gus Worland: a 5% decrease last year, but we still lost over 3, 362 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,770 Gus Worland: 000. So we've got a long way to go, but 363 00:16:27,770 --> 00:16:28,610 Gus Worland: we are getting there. 364 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:30,170 Sean Aylmer: Gus, keep doing what you're doing. 365 00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:33,880 Gus Worland: I will, Sean. There's no doubt about that. I've never been more focused. 366 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,260 Gus Worland: I never get tired when I do Gotcha4Life work. I 367 00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:38,300 Gus Worland: do doing the other work that I have in my 368 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,660 Gus Worland: life, but Gotcha4Life seems to... I suppose, if you create 369 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:45,040 Gus Worland: something yourself and you see that it's going in a 370 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,970 Gus Worland: good direction, you got that much power and energy, you 371 00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:49,760 Gus Worland: just keep going. 372 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,490 Sean Aylmer: Gus, thanks for talking to Fear and Greed. 373 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,770 Gus Worland: Oh, Sean, absolutely my pleasure and all the best to 374 00:16:54,770 --> 00:16:56,540 Gus Worland: Michael and Adam as well, mate. All the best. 375 00:16:57,010 --> 00:16:59,840 Sean Aylmer: That was Gus Worland, radio and TV presenter, and the 376 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,840 Sean Aylmer: founder of Gotcha4Life. This is the Fear and Greed Daily 377 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,430 Sean Aylmer: Interview. Join me every morning for the Fear and Greed 378 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:07,790 Sean Aylmer: Podcast, with all the business news you need to know. 379 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,909 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.