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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installming the show.

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Speaker 1: Craig Anthony Harper, Bill Roger, John Brian Sullivan and Tiffany

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Speaker 1: and Margaret Cook Ki TIV.

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Speaker 2: That's a new name. You've never pulled Roger out into

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Speaker 2: the middle name for thora before.

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Speaker 1: No, No, we just do you know. When I was

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Speaker 1: growing up, my dad told me as a child, and

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Speaker 1: I believed it till I was about sixteen that his

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Speaker 1: actual name was Ronald Edward Persualarence Terrence, James Ambrose, Allowish

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Speaker 1: has Harper, and I thought that was and I don't

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Speaker 1: know why, but he told me that I believe that.

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Speaker 1: So I like a lot of middle names.

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Speaker 2: You just roll them off the towngue. They just roll off.

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Speaker 2: It makes my ant feel very insignificant.

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Speaker 1: Let's say hello to doctor Bill, because I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about one more thing. But we can't

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Speaker 1: ignore the most important, the person that we're actually here for,

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Speaker 1: who I might say, I've really thrown under the bus

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Speaker 1: today because he came with an idea and you and

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Speaker 1: I went and then and then he went, well, what

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Speaker 1: do you want to talk about? And I went, ouck,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, hi.

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Speaker 3: Doc, Hello, is this thing on am I here.

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Speaker 1: All right, dude, what matter? Lucky? We'll say you so much?

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Speaker 3: Bill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you what today will double it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the rabble, Welcome to the fucking intellectual mayhem

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Speaker 1: that is the U Project. How have you been?

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Speaker 3: Who mean you're talking to me?

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Speaker 2: You?

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Speaker 3: I've been great. I'm apparently doing a lot better than

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Speaker 3: someone who's trying desperately to finish up their thesis.

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Speaker 1: Oah, yeah, that is true. As we record, it's eleven

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Speaker 1: forty four. I've got a meeting with my supervisor at

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Speaker 1: twelve thirty, which I'm ill prepared for. You know that

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Speaker 1: you remer man?

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Speaker 3: Are you prepared for anything today? Well?

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Speaker 1: I know, I think I've got too much shit on.

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Speaker 3: I think i'm for real, for real, good luck with

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Speaker 3: finishing up your thesis and meeting with your supervisor. For

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Speaker 3: those who haven't been through this terrible ordeal, it's it's

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Speaker 3: hell man, It's really tough, and I you know, I

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Speaker 3: sympathize with you, and I wish that you can somehow

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Speaker 3: muster up the energy to get across the finish line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm no spring chicken. Speaking of spring chickens,

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Speaker 1: just quickly, if I showed one of my friends. You

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Speaker 1: interviewing your one hundred and one year old granddad. I've

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Speaker 1: got to say, I love him. He is so amazing,

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Speaker 1: isn't he lovable?

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Speaker 2: Isn't he? I'm so proud. I'm so proud, and I

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Speaker 2: feel so grateful to have been able to capture.

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Speaker 1: That as I was watching that exactly that. So tell

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Speaker 1: doctor Bill what you where you were the last week

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Speaker 1: and what you did, because I think this is a

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Speaker 1: really interesting story from a genetics point of view and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other reasons. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, doctor Bill, I'm from Tazzy and every year I

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Speaker 2: go home, but the last few years, since my pop

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Speaker 2: turned ninety nine, I started going home in February for

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Speaker 2: his birthday instead of Christmas. And so this year I

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Speaker 2: decided to take my podcasting gear and capture a conversation

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Speaker 2: with him after his one hundred and first birthday. And

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Speaker 2: he's amazing, Like, he is so amazing, and I just

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Speaker 2: feel really grateful, and I'm excited because all of the

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Speaker 2: family are so excited, and every time I put a

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Speaker 2: clip up, they're like, that is so great, like and

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Speaker 2: it's just so much meaning behind it.

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Speaker 3: No, that is awesome. That's an incredible age to reach.

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Speaker 3: I hope we're all that lucky, and it's really wonderful

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Speaker 3: that you can have those special times together. I'd love

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Speaker 3: to hear that discussion.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I got to editing.

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Speaker 3: There's so much wisdom that people who reach that age

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Speaker 3: can impart to us younger people so that we can

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Speaker 3: maybe improve the quality of our lives.

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Speaker 2: When I was preparing to set it up, I thought

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Speaker 2: to myself, how do I gauge like what it was like?

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Speaker 2: And I did a search on when TV reached Australia,

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Speaker 2: When Australia got TV, and my prop was thirty two

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Speaker 2: years old. His first thirty two years were sans television,

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Speaker 2: and you just go, wow, that's and look at how

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Speaker 2: much life has changed now. And now I'm sitting down

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Speaker 2: with him to have a podcast that you know, thousands

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Speaker 2: of people will be able to listen to whenever they want.

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Speaker 3: What a weird thing that is? That is very weird.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you go back one hundred years and I

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Speaker 3: think radio was just becoming a thing, and here he

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Speaker 3: is on this this futuristic form of radio caled podcasts

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Speaker 3: that no one could ever imagined. You know, my kids

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Speaker 3: were born into that era. So they don't know life

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Speaker 3: without Netflix much less. They don't actually know what TV

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Speaker 3: is anymore either. How weird is that it comes full

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Speaker 3: circle like that. You know, they watch everything on their

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Speaker 3: phone screens or their iPads or computers, right, so like

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Speaker 3: watching something on TV is a little weird to them.

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Speaker 3: It's old fashioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've never had to get up to change the channel.

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Speaker 3: So check that out, Craig. And like, one generation we've

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Speaker 3: gone without TV with TV and now we're kind of,

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Speaker 3: you know, a different type of way we ingest media

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Speaker 3: and entertainment these days. Really, we won't be long before

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Speaker 3: we just kind of like, you know, put a chip

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Speaker 3: into the hard drive that's in our brain or something

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Speaker 3: to download the material.

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Speaker 1: I think that's already happened. It's called neurallink. But that's

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Speaker 1: terrifying as well. But what I love about your granddad is,

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty four, nineteen twenty four, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: five years after the First World War and way before

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Speaker 1: the Second World War. So by the time the Second

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Speaker 1: World War started he was fifteen. I mean, the Second

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Speaker 1: World War was a million years ago, seemingly. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, like the evolution, I mean, think of the

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Speaker 1: amount of changes, technological and other that have happened since

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Speaker 1: he was born. It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Well, I asked him about high school and he said, oh,

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Speaker 2: you had to be privileged to go to high school.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was twelve to fourteen miles away, Like,

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Speaker 2: how do you get there? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: on the school bus. Oh they weren't buses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember him saying that, and I thought that's

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Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, exactly, it's twelve to forty miles and

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Speaker 1: well that's over twenty k's and then he's like, and

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Speaker 1: that's all well and good, but how do you get there? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: It's like, because it's not what are you going to

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Speaker 1: walk twenty eight miles a day?

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Speaker 2: And some of the friends he walks to school with

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Speaker 2: they didn't have shoes, so that other boys would take

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Speaker 2: their shoes off so they would all walk with no shoes.

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Speaker 2: Like that gives me goosebumps thinking about that no shoes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, he's What you've also done is you've created

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Speaker 1: a little time capsule that like your your family, they

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Speaker 1: can go back and listen to that forever, and so

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Speaker 1: can you. You know, and let's hope you do another

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Speaker 1: one next year when he's one hundred and two. But

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Speaker 1: you know what I was thinking, I hope Ron's not listening.

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Speaker 1: But my dad, Ron's eighty five, and I reckon, your

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Speaker 1: granddad's a little bit sharper than Ron, and he's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and one, so sharp, like there is other than

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Speaker 1: the fact that he talks gently and a little bit slower,

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Speaker 1: but not definitely.

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Speaker 2: Not that's just tasmy It's just.

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Speaker 1: That's indicative of the geographical kind of requirements. But that

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, motherfucker, that would be inappropriate.

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Speaker 1: But that motherfucker is switched on, like there's no cognitive

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Speaker 1: decline or very little. I mean, he seems straight up normal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and funny, yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean for Tiff moving forward? Doc,

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Speaker 1: do you reckon, all things being equal, she might get old?

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Speaker 3: Well, I would hope. So, I mean, you certainly got

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Speaker 3: the genetic potential there that you know, if there is

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Speaker 3: a genetic component to old age, and I'm sure that

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Speaker 3: there is at least to a certain degree, then yeah, Nati,

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Speaker 3: Tiff has that potential for those longevity genes. You know,

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Speaker 3: just maybe don't do anything that might put you in

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Speaker 3: harm's way, like boxing or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Or riding or riding motorbikes for completing a thesis.

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Speaker 2: No chance.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, if anything's going to aid you, it's a PhD.

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Speaker 1: When you get accepted, you're like, whooo, look at me.

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Speaker 1: And then then you get in and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what have I done? This is horrible? Oh what am

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Speaker 1: I doing? The dumbest thing you can do is tell

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Speaker 1: everyone in the world what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: That's like before and after pictures in every thesis. You

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Speaker 3: know what you look like before you started and what

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Speaker 3: you look like after. Always than by anyone who wants

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Speaker 3: to go through that gauntlet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when people look at me and they're like, as

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Speaker 1: your PhD, I'll go, well, have a look at me.

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Speaker 1: I'm only twenty nine. They're like, okay, so it's hard.

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Speaker 1: I in the middle of the rabble, we decided we

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Speaker 1: might talk about but we might talk about the biology

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Speaker 1: of happiness, if that's a if that's a thing, and

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Speaker 1: or the influence of genetics and our biology on maybe

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Speaker 1: more broadly, just emotions and feelings in general. Doc I

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Speaker 1: was saying a tiff yesterday. There are not many times,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes when I have a day where I feel

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Speaker 1: really flat and or a bit sad or not often

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Speaker 1: maybe two or three days a year, but where there's

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Speaker 1: no apparent reason. It's not like something happened and I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about that thing and now I'm sad. But is

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Speaker 1: that tied in perhaps to just something that's going on

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Speaker 1: in my body.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, all the feelings and sensations that we

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Speaker 3: experience are biochemistry based, So it's all based in our

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Speaker 3: brain chemistry, and there's evolutionary reasons for this. So it's always,

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Speaker 3: I think, useful to have a discussion about happiness or

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Speaker 3: its counterpart sadness in the context of what these feelings

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Speaker 3: truly are from a biological perspective. We experience them subjectively,

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Speaker 3: I feel happy or you know, I feel melancholy and

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Speaker 3: don't maybe sometimes you don't know why, but we know

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Speaker 3: that it's a biochemical reaction because it can be manipulated.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can artificially induce happiness through various drugs.

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Speaker 3: You can artificially induce or alleviate depression through either certain

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Speaker 3: substances or medication, respectively. So we have to appreciate that

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Speaker 3: this is a biological a biochemical reaction in the brain,

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Speaker 3: and what's happening is that these chemicals are binding to

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Speaker 3: certain receptors on our brain cells, and they are kind

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Speaker 3: of creating this feedback loop that gives us a subjective experience.

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Speaker 3: And the reason for all of that is so that

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Speaker 3: our bodies can discern things about our environment, or so

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Speaker 3: we can remember experiences we just had had as either

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Speaker 3: pleasurable something we might want to repeat or painful something

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Speaker 3: we want to avoid. So there's an evolutionary basis for

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Speaker 3: why we experience happiness, sadness, and all the other emotions

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Speaker 3: that are subjective in nature. You know, there's a tangible

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Speaker 3: biological reason for them. So why why would our bodies

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Speaker 3: be designed to be sad? You can think of a

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Speaker 3: variety of reasons, but it's basically a warning signal not

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Speaker 3: to repeat that behavior or eat that food, or you know,

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Speaker 3: say that thing to someone. These are kind of warning

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Speaker 3: signs that this experience should not be repeated. It's not

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Speaker 3: advantageous for our survival or maybe our reproductive fitness, which

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Speaker 3: in biological terms means our chances of procuring a mate

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Speaker 3: and you know, reproducing our DNA. So that's what these

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Speaker 3: negative emotions are for. Positive ones are for the opposite

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Speaker 3: you know, if we do something that is biologically rewarding,

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Speaker 3: then we're going to feel a pleasurable sensation.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's why sex is probably one of the most ultimate

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Speaker 3: pleasurable experiences the brain registers because at our core, our

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Speaker 3: biology wants us to reproduce, so we seek out sex

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Speaker 3: in order to do that, and we are rewarded, you know,

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Speaker 3: through brain chemistry that hey, DNA likes it when you're

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Speaker 3: trying to procreate, so we're going to reward you with

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Speaker 3: this fantastic experience called the orgasm. Same thing happens when

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Speaker 3: you eat something that has a lot of sugar, you know,

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Speaker 3: or fat. These were rare nutrients to come by back

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Speaker 3: in the day when we were evolving over you know,

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Speaker 3: tens of thousands of years, so our brain has built in,

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Speaker 3: hardwired an intense pleasurable response when sugar, salt, or fat

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Speaker 3: hits our tongue. It's actually maladaptive now, as we've discussed

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Speaker 3: several times on our show, because that same pleasurable experience

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Speaker 3: is tied to our brain. Even though these substances are

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Speaker 3: not scarce any longer, they're actually really easy to come by,

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Speaker 3: so we actually become obese and overeat because of that

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Speaker 3: pleasurable sensation that helped us evolve a long time ago.

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Speaker 3: So does that make sense where these positive and negative

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Speaker 3: emotions come from and what they mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Completely, So Tiff, what that tells me is you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't come back from tasmania.

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Speaker 2: That's what my biology told me.

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Speaker 1: That's what your biology can. I throw you under the

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Speaker 1: bus and feel free to alive. You know, a little

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Speaker 1: bit bottom lip, that a little bit flat, And I went,

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Speaker 1: what's gone on? And you went, I don't know, and

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Speaker 1: you were kind of maybe had a fit, but like you,

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Speaker 1: you just didn't feel great for no obvious reason. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what did you do? You have any revelations since then?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Not since then? But I think, you know, like listening

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Speaker 2: to Bill talk and discussions I've had with other people,

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Speaker 2: it's it's understanding when what the what leavers you need

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Speaker 2: to pull in life when you haven't necessarily changed anything. So,

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Speaker 2: like I think one of the big leavers for me

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Speaker 2: is almost forty two, and I don't recover the way

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Speaker 2: I used to do in training. So everything that I

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Speaker 2: that has been great for me isn't working as well.

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Speaker 2: So I've had to change things. So it's understanding what

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Speaker 2: leavers do I need, what's the thing in my environment

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Speaker 2: that hasn't drastically changed that's now functioning differently to how

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Speaker 2: it was. And the thing that clued me off is

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Speaker 2: I got to tazzy and just like when I got

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Speaker 2: to the Himalayas, my heart resting heart rate immediately dropped

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Speaker 2: eight to ten beats a minute, and I went, there's

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Speaker 2: something in the way that I'm living my day today

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Speaker 2: that's not good for my nervous system and I need

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Speaker 2: to figure that out. And so I guess that played

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Speaker 2: on my mind. And then when I got back here,

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Speaker 2: I had some out of my control chaos unfold the

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Speaker 2: day or two before, so I had no resilience for that.

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Speaker 2: I've just felt like I have got no mind for

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Speaker 2: this right now and it was exhausting. And yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: You think that that's about like you said to me, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your heart rate dropped like a ten beats and also

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Speaker 1: you slept phenomenally right. Yeah, whereas you over here, So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Victoria and Tasmania, doctor Bill, So bottom

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Speaker 1: of Australia. Where we are Victoria off the bottom of Australia,

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Speaker 1: which is still part of Australia, which is Tasmania the island,

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Speaker 1: so that's where tips from. But when you're there, it's

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Speaker 1: like your body responds differently in that environment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think maybe it's I've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of isolation around me here that I have created,

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Speaker 2: and I guess when I go home, there's all the

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Speaker 2: old there's old friendships, there's family, there's connection, there's people around,

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Speaker 2: there's peace and there's calm then And it was the

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Speaker 2: same in India. I was with a group and there

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Speaker 2: was a whole change of scenery and people in it

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Speaker 2: with me, and I was like, that's one of the

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Speaker 2: big things that highlights like no one in it with

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Speaker 2: you in life like day to day. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: interesting Stage checked.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing, doctor Bill? How our biology responds to

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Speaker 1: different environments or different people, or different social settings, like

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Speaker 1: literally heart rate up or down, blood pressure up or down,

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Speaker 1: sleep better or worse, just because of where you are

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Speaker 1: and perhaps who you're around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's amazing, And it's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of therapists and doctors will encourage

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Speaker 3: people to journal experiences so that you can have a

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Speaker 3: physical record of what sort of environments or what sort

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Speaker 3: of experiences make you happy, sad or just met. You know,

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Speaker 3: you want to leverage those happy experiences so that you

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Speaker 3: can repeat them again or maybe even all to your life,

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Speaker 3: so that you can enrich your life with those experiences.

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Speaker 3: So the specifics that Tiff mentioned are very interesting because

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Speaker 3: it reminds me of two things that always come up

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Speaker 3: in research on happiness. The first of which is the

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Speaker 3: return home. There's something about home, and you know, assuming

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Speaker 3: that it offers the secure environment that it does for

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Speaker 3: many people, Obviously, if you've had a horrible home life,

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Speaker 3: this is not going to be the same experience. But

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Speaker 3: when you return home, you get these wonderful feelings of nostalgia,

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Speaker 3: you get feelings of security, you get you know, these

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Speaker 3: wonderful memories. Fully, they're wonderful of growing up without a

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Speaker 3: care in the world, which is what most kids experience.

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Speaker 3: You know, you don't have a job, you don't have

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Speaker 3: to pay bills, all this kind of stuff is taken

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Speaker 3: care of for you. That's a tremendous source of happiness,

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Speaker 3: and it's something that we can tap into more regularly

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Speaker 3: if we take a different perspective on life and if

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Speaker 3: we realize that if we can build just enough shelter

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Speaker 3: and acquire just enough of our basic needs, you know,

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Speaker 3: the monetary means to provide food and safety, and you know,

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Speaker 3: give us a little something to do, that's really all

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Speaker 3: you need. Community is really important, and that's another reason

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Speaker 3: why home and revisiting with friends is extremely important variable

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Speaker 3: in the equation for happiness. Now, the other dimension you

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Speaker 3: mentioned TIF is also equally important and comes up again

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Speaker 3: time and time again and happiness research. And if I

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Speaker 3: understood you correctly, the trip you had to India, was

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Speaker 3: it India?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that trip seems to have inspired a great sense

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Speaker 3: of awe within you, and that experience of all and

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Speaker 3: realizing that there is so much more to this world

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Speaker 3: than our little lives is something that creates this immense

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Speaker 3: pleasure in most people. And I think part of that

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Speaker 3: pleasure relates to the fact that life is so much

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Speaker 3: bigger than our day to day petty experiences, our little

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Speaker 3: trials and tribulations. They seem to take a back seat

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Speaker 3: when you're confronted with something that fills you with all,

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Speaker 3: like being at the ocean, or climbing a mountain, or

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Speaker 3: almost anything in nature can do that sort of thing,

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Speaker 3: or even if you're about you're reading about these wonderful

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Speaker 3: things that humans have done that can fill you with

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Speaker 3: all as well. I mean, we're pretty remarkable species despite

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Speaker 3: all of our flaws. You know, we were talking about

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Speaker 3: your one hundred and one year old grandfather who has

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Speaker 3: gone from an era where we didn't even have antibiotics, television,

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Speaker 3: you know, cancer treatments and all these all these things

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Speaker 3: that have improved the quality of life to a lifetime

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Speaker 3: now which probably looks like a playground compared to some

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Speaker 3: of the things he might have experience. My grandparents were

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Speaker 3: the same way. I hear about what they had to

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Speaker 3: endure as immigrants to the United States, coming here with

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Speaker 3: virtually nothing you know, in their hands, not even being

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Speaker 3: able to go to high school, much like your your

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Speaker 3: your story there and the lives that they were able

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Speaker 3: to build. If they could see what we live now,

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Speaker 3: it would fill them with all. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: why a lot of people, as we each tend to

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Speaker 3: get happier and happier. So those two experiences, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is probably going to benefit your listeners, Craig. If

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Speaker 3: you can find community, whether that be at home or

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Speaker 3: just with friends, and if you can find something an

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Speaker 3: experience that will bring all or fill you with that sensation,

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Speaker 3: you know, and give you perspective on life. Those are

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Speaker 3: two drivers of happiness that come up again and again

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Speaker 3: in psychological surveys.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's interesting that that was all interesting? What

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Speaker 1: else though we were? I don't know if you and

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Speaker 1: I talked about it on our last chat or before

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Speaker 1: or maybe, but this idea of interpersonal neurobiology, the way

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Speaker 1: that the impact that other people have just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like being near somebody could turn out or basically

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Speaker 1: trigger your parasympathetic nervous system because you love being around them.

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Speaker 1: They put you at ease, They relieve anxiety for you,

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Speaker 1: they make you calm, you feel loved and safe. Or

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Speaker 1: the same individual being around another person who doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: do anything to them, not hurt them, not talk to them,

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Speaker 1: but just being near them could create the opposite response.

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Speaker 1: And it's this impact that you know. I was coaching

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Speaker 1: a lady recently and she was talking about how she

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Speaker 1: gets anxiety just seeing her boss. He doesn't even have

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Speaker 1: to do anything or talk, and she sits in her

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Speaker 1: car in the car park before work just to do

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Speaker 1: some box breathing to try to get everything in check.

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Speaker 1: And she says, when I feel it's like as the

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Speaker 1: elevator goes up, my blood pressure goes up. And I'm

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Speaker 1: like wow, And she goes, And the days like sometimes

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Speaker 1: he's into state, she goes, none of that happens. I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: isn't that interesting? The way that that how you expect

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Speaker 1: aperience another person can change your biology drastically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really great point too. And our connections

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Speaker 3: with other people, whether they be family, friends, employers, and

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Speaker 3: so on, can really have a dramatic impact for better

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Speaker 3: or worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Now, what I've found is that you can certainly incorporate

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Speaker 3: more of the positive moments in your life. If there

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Speaker 3: are people in your life who bring you joy, certain

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Speaker 3: family member, a friend, what have you, Craig Harper, whatever,

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Speaker 3: be with that person more. You know, create more moments

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Speaker 3: and opportunities in your life to be with the people

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Speaker 3: who make you happy. And on the flip side, suppress

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Speaker 3: the people or you know, don't engage with them. If

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Speaker 3: you don't have to, just minimize the presence in your

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Speaker 3: life of people who bring you down. You know, there's

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Speaker 3: no obligation you have to hang out with certain people

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Speaker 3: or to engage with them, So minimize it, you know,

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Speaker 3: if they're not if they're not making it work for you.

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Speaker 3: What I also found, and I don't mean to sound

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Speaker 3: like I'm blaming the victim here, but this, this is

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Speaker 3: a tried and true psychological technique. And you can you

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Speaker 3: can interject if I'm wrong on this, Craig. But we

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Speaker 3: have a lot more power than we think when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the emotions that are generated from external things,

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Speaker 3: whether it be a person or a situation. How that

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Speaker 3: affects us is under our control. Okay, and this is

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Speaker 3: really important. It's it's almost like an earth shattering revelation

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Speaker 3: that many people just don't appreciate. Yeah, let's take your example,

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Speaker 3: Craig or tif. You know the example you brought up.

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Speaker 3: A boss or some other person is an antagonist in

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Speaker 3: your life. You can't even think about them without a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch of fiery emotions going off that that ruined

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Speaker 3: your day. Whose fault is that? You could say it's

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Speaker 3: your boss, yes, but he's an external person. The reality

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Speaker 3: you create in your head is what you get your

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Speaker 3: brain to decide. Okay, you get to you have the

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Speaker 3: agency over how you are going to handle that person

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Speaker 3: in your life. And if that person is creating emotions

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Speaker 3: in you that are negative, you have a very empowering

434
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: ability to change those emotions.

435
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: You can.

436
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: I'm not saying you you know, you don't experience it.

437
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to negate that that sensation. It happens.

438
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 3: It's a biological reality. It's measurable, you know. But you

439
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 3: can talk to your You can talk to yourself in

440
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: a very positive way and in a very productive way

441
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: to recognize the emotion and transform remit into something either

442
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: neutral or positive. And you can radically change your state

443
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: of happiness by that simple exercise.

444
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I actually put up a post

445
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: the other day, three days ago in fact, which speaks

446
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: to this, So the white on my Instagram, I wrote,

447
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: the problem with the when you do this you make

448
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: me feel that mindset is that you make me feel.

449
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: Part of that statement as telling the world and yourself

450
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: that someone else is in control of your feelings. And

451
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: then I wrote, yes, some people are going to say

452
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: and do nasty shit, even people who allegedly love us.

453
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: Welcome to life. Fortunately, you and I wrisk. How you

454
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: and I respond and react is optional. It's not easy,

455
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: of course, but optional. And I think there's that I

456
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: love what you said, you know, just that awareness that

457
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: what's going on in me is an individual reaction to

458
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: an inbound stimulus, you know, and this thing that's happened.

459
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: It's like another silly example, but is I've been riding

460
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: motorbikes forever. Tip rides motorbikes. Some people I'll put on

461
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: the back and we'll go for a ride. It'll be

462
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: the worst experience of their life. They'll be terrified, they're traumatized.

463
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: They get back, they've got PTSD, not really, you know,

464
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: but they hate it. Somebody else shall do the exact

465
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: same thing, and they want to get straight back on

466
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: and go somewhere else. It's like, it's not about the

467
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: motorbike or the ride, it's about how you relate to that,

468
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: what that means to you, how you feel around that.

469
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: And this is not good or bad, and the same

470
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: with you know, you make me feel. It's a very

471
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: understandable mindset. But as you said, it's like, I think

472
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: this is the that's a real self awareness kind of exploration.

473
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: There exactly exactly, and it's really empowering to know that

474
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: you have it within yourself to make that change. You

475
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: can certainly recognize those emotions boiling up in you when

476
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 3: that person pisses you off, You get angry, you get mad.

477
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: But when that happens and you don't do something about

478
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: it mentally, okay, talk yourself out of it. If you will,

479
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: they win. You know, they got the best of you.

480
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: They got into your head. And what I'm trying to

481
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: do is get you to be an exorcist to those

482
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: emotions that they put into you. You know, you have

483
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: the ability to cast them out. And like you said,

484
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: it is easier said than done. It takes a little

485
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: bit of training, It takes a little bit of you know,

486
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 3: practice to be able to control your emotions like that.

487
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: But I tell you, once you master that ability, it

488
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: will change your life.

489
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think also in close proximity to that

490
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: is the awareness that we create anxiety via our thoughts.

491
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: You know, something happens and I go, oh my god,

492
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: that's a stressful situation, and I get stressed, and TIFF's

493
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: in the same situation, and Tiff goes, this is not

494
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: a problem at all, and she's not stressed, like her

495
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: body is calm. I'm elevated We're in the same situation,

496
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: but we didn't have the same experience, and we didn't

497
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: have the same outcome, not because of the event or

498
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: the situation, but because of the individual reaction. And like

499
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: trying to get people to understand the role that they

500
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: play in their own anxiety. And I'm not saying anxiety

501
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: is not real and it's not a battle. Of course,

502
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: it's real and it's a battle, but understanding out the

503
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: contribution we make to that.

504
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. I don't mean to trivialize anxiety either, and

505
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: I'll give you a rather trivial example to compare to

506
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: what some other people go through, But I think it's

507
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: one that a lot of people can relate to. And

508
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: that's public's speaking. Okay, I do this a lot. I

509
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: get up in front of crowds quite a bit, talk

510
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: about the book, talk about this and that. You know,

511
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: go on these wonderful podcasts, and you know, it's natural

512
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 3: to feel anxious about what's going to happen. Oh my gosh,

513
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: Am I going to say something stupid? Are people going

514
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: to hate me? Are people going to make fun of me?

515
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: You know, you know, you can run through all these

516
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: scenarios in your head and I used to have a

517
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: problem with that. Every time, you know, like an hour

518
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: or so before, my mind would just go crazy with

519
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: all these possibilities, okay, these what ifs, and you have

520
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: to learn to control that. And you can simply do

521
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: it by shifting what your mind is thinking about. And again,

522
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 3: with practice, this gets easier. But what I've come to

523
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 3: do is appreciate that. First of all, you know, I

524
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: remind myself that I trained for this, I practiced, I rehearsed,

525
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: I've done this before. The audience is not going to

526
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: be mean. They're not out to get me. Run through

527
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: more positive thoughts. You know, maybe they're going to really

528
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: appreciate what I say. Maybe what I say is going

529
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: to make them think, these are some things that you

530
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: can do instead of dwelling on all the negatives and

531
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 3: my complete fail safe if all that fails is that

532
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: I and everyone who is listening to me will be

533
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: dead soon and none of this will matter. That works wonders.

534
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: Except TIFF's granddad. He's going to be here in a

535
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: hundred He'll remember everything that all bug is going nowhere.

536
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: God bless him.

537
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: That We'll put an asterisk by what I said, except

538
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: for TIFF's granddad.

539
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is. I was thinking when you were

540
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: talking about essentially almost it sounds like the biology of

541
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: belief a bit. It's like, what do you believe? I

542
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: believe that's terrifying. Therefore I'm terrified. I believe that's funny,

543
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: so I'm amused. I believe that's interesting, so I'm fascinated.

544
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: I believe that's an opportunity to grow. So I'm fucking

545
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: in boots and all. You know, I think there's these

546
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: self limiting and empowering beliefs, but I think also, I

547
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I've always to a degree

548
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: felt like an impost or not good enough for you know,

549
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: self doubt, self loathing, all of that stuff. But then

550
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: as an older person being able to recognize that, oh,

551
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: I can still feel these things, but also that doesn't

552
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: need to control my behavior like I do over one

553
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: hundred corporate gigs a year. I never before, I never

554
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: think I'm amazing, They're going to fucking love me. I

555
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: never think that. I don't think I'm going to crash

556
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: and burn. But I'm always there's this low level anxiety.

557
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: There's this awareness that this could go or not, you know,

558
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: there's no arrogance in it. I don't. But I think

559
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: for me, having that a little bit of self doubt

560
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: keeps me focused. I don't know, that's just how I work. Well.

561
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 3: That is the biological purpose of anxiety. It's to get

562
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 3: us motivate us to prepare for something. Right, So if

563
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: you're feeling anxious about an exam or you know, a

564
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: public performance you have to do, or a date you're

565
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 3: going on, that is just your body's way of saying,

566
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: let's prepare for this. It's a motivator, yes, but it

567
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 3: can certainly go out of control. And that's where this beneficial,

568
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: you know, component to our biology can become maladaptive. And

569
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: some people it's so bad they legitimately need medication to

570
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 3: get those biochemicals under control. And that's that's perfectly fine.

571
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 3: But I think you can make a lot of headway,

572
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: you know, no pun intended. You can make a lot

573
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: of difference just by retuning the inner monologue that you

574
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 3: experience in your brain. You know, you can talk to

575
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: yourself in a very different way and reframe the situation

576
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: to get that anxiety to tick back down to a

577
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 3: level where you know it's acceptable, and that it's driving

578
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: you to do positive things rather than overdriving you to,

579
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 3: you know, feel bad.

580
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I made that little bit of self doubt and

581
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: that I remember. I was talking to somebody about this

582
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: the other day. This is a weird thing. I don't

583
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: know what you think of this, but you know, most

584
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: people want to Most people want to look good. That's

585
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: not a bad thing, men and women. Most people want

586
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: to look good. But I was when I was a kid,

587
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily want to look good, as in be attractive,

588
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: but I wanted to look This is going to sound

589
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: I've never said this in two thousand episodes, but I

590
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: wanted to look intimidating because I felt weak, like I

591
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: felt insecure, and I felt weak, and I thought people knew,

592
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: and I thought, fuck, if I could look intimidating, people

593
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: won't know a week I am. And I thought, I

594
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: wonder if there's a name for that. And I did

595
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: some research here. It's called dominant signaling or social status

596
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: assertion or aggressive aggressive posturing. You know, there's all this

597
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: stuff in evolutionary psychology. And I'm like, oh, that's what

598
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: I was. I mean, now I don't care, but I

599
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: really cared that. It's like this fucking evolutionary driver that

600
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: I looked scary or that I looked I mean, not

601
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: that I wanted to do anything to anyone, but I

602
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: was so insecure, and I thought I was so weak

603
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: that there was this drive for me to I didn't

604
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: necessarily care if I looked attractive. I just wanted to

605
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: look intimidating because I felt the opposite of that. How

606
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: funny is that.

607
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 3: Well, I don't. I don't think it's funny at all.

608
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's perfectly natural. You'd be weird

609
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 3: if you weren't worried about your status, because that is

610
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: another aspect of our biology that's been hardwired into us

611
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: for for eons. You know, even non human primates struggle

612
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: with status. We got the whole alpha male situation you

613
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: know in non human primates and other species as well.

614
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: This and it is downright funny when you put it

615
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 3: into an evolutionary context. So all the things you described, Craig,

616
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: and all the other similar experiences people have, all the

617
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: struggles that we that we aim for in life. Okay,

618
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 3: whether it be excelling intellectually in the classroom, or excelling

619
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: at the gym, or looking intimidating. All these things that

620
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: we try to dominate are evoluente lutionary ghosts, and I've

621
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: talked about those before. The status game, if you will,

622
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 3: is a trick that our biology plays on us so

623
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 3: that we increase our odds of looking attractive for mates.

624
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: That's the evolutionary psychology behind the whole thing. And when

625
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: you put those behaviors, you know, imagine yourself as an

626
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: alien visiting this planet and studying our species and watching

627
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 3: us do these silly things, you know, working so hard

628
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: to achieve these meaningless status games. You'd almost laugh yourself

629
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: off the chair if you were watching it from the outside,

630
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 3: you know, if you like, for just a quick example,

631
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 3: you can watch like a documentary of apes or gorillas

632
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: or something, and you watch them do these little status games,

633
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: you know, play around, you know, bully other lower primates

634
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: so that you have more mating opportunities than that one,

635
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 3: or that you have more food than that one. You'd

636
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: almost think, oh, this is really kind of silly. Why

637
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: can't they just all, you know, come together and talk

638
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: this out or get along. We have echoes of that

639
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: in our own species. And this is what politics and

640
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: global problems the whole root of all of that is

641
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: a status gain, okay, and it doesn't need to exist

642
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: in this world because we don't have the scarce resources

643
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: that those evolutionary tools were designed to succumb to, design

644
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: to overcome. So in a scarce or stressful environment, status

645
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 3: can be critically important. In today's environment, we just pretend

646
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 3: that it is. And if we can lose that illusion,

647
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: we can make this world heaven on Earth, okay, because

648
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: cooperation is also embedded deep within our genes. But we

649
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: fool ourselves. We delude our self that competition and the

650
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: alpha male is natural and the way we need to proceed.

651
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 3: That may be true if resources were scarce, but they're

652
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 3: not scarce anymore. They're just, you know, unequally divided. And

653
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: if we came together as a species and lived more intelligently,

654
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: the world would be a much better place. We don't

655
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: have to live the way that evolution designed us to.

656
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true. We don't live in that place

657
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: or that time, all that kind of reality. Did you

658
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: ever see did you see Chimp Empire doc? Which was a.

659
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 3: Big yeah, Yeah, it was fantastic and I still to

660
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: this day, I meant to check on this but how

661
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: the hell did they film that? It was remarkable, and

662
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 3: they put these stories together almost like a soap opera,

663
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: you know, about what these chimps are going through. It's

664
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: a wonderful documentary. I highly recommend it.

665
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, originally that some researchers in there who weren't filming.

666
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: They were just researching, and then I think this is

667
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: the story TIF you might know. But and then these

668
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: doco makers wanted to film, and so they integrated into

669
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: the research team. But the chimps were very, very familiar

670
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: with humans, and as long as humans didn't they obviously

671
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: couldn't have any food, they couldn't smell, like, they had

672
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: to have no smell, no food, no sense, and basically

673
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: they became The humans kind of became invisible to the

674
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: chimps after a period of time, and so by the

675
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: time they started filming, I think those researchers had already

676
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: been embedded in the tribe or whatever for the best

677
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: part of a decade. So I think that's how they

678
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: got that up close. I mean, yeah, you're right, it

679
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: was like they were right in the middle of everything.

680
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was incredible, you know, I was bewildered at

681
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 3: some of the shots, But I was entranced by how

682
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 3: human like so many of the behaviors that these chimps exhibited.

683
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 3: It was striking, and I'm pretty familiar with them, you know,

684
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: and it was still to see it on the screen

685
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: like that just took it to a whole other level.

686
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 3: You see all the emotions, you see all the politics,

687
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: all the social games that we play, all in these chimps,

688
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 3: And that's our history, Craig, that's our history. And we're

689
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 3: still living like we're just a bunch of chimps with

690
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: scarce resources in the forest. And we don't need to

691
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: live that way anymore. We've conquered so much, we've come

692
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 3: so far. We can just divide it up better and

693
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: everyone would be better off for it. Because getting circling

694
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 3: back to happiness, what study after study shows is that

695
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: the more material things you accumulate, the more money you have,

696
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: the more external rewards you have, it doesn't wait with

697
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: a proportional rise in happiness.

698
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

699
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the converse of that. People who live relatively

700
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 3: meek lives can still be incredibly happy. Monks who live

701
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: on virtually nothing are some of the happiest people in

702
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 3: the world. So happiness is a state of mind. And

703
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: if we continue to fool ourselves and kill ourselves to

704
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 3: get more money, to get more material things. Fancy your cars,

705
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: fancy your jewelry, You're going down the wrong road, my friend.

706
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: That's not going to bring you the contentment that you seek.

707
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 3: It's not going to sustain happiness.

708
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yep. There's lots of theology and philosophy and

709
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: psychology and research around that. So you're on the money.

710
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: Uh tif, we hope you have, we hype you have

711
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: a better day today.

712
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: Picked up, it's picked up, already.

713
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: Picked up a little bit. Like Doctor Bill's like Xanax

714
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: with headphones.

715
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: On, isn't he? He's like, no.

716
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: What's the other one? What's the one that makes you

717
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: feel good? Happy? Prozac? He's like, Prozac with specs.

718
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: That's going to be my new that's my new tagline,

719
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: Prozac with specs. Yeah, Prozac with specs. I don't know

720
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: if a lot of Americans will realize spex means glasses.

721
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: But that's okay, Oh really, you don't use that.

722
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: It's not really my specs though. It's what I'm saying.

723
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: I'm I'm verbal prozac.

724
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, You're like a soothing bomb to

725
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: the anxiety of the written Australian. You're like a lotion

726
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: we can just pour on people once a month. All right,

727
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 1: enough with the metaphors, Doctor Bill. Where can people find

728
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: you and follow you and connect with you and get

729
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: some more soothing?

730
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 3: You can always find what I'm up to my latest

731
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 3: writing at all Bill Sullivan dot com. And quite a

732
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 3: bit of what we talked about here is actually described

733
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: in my book Please to Meet Me, Jeans, Germs and

734
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: the curious forces that make us who we are. It's

735
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 3: available wherever books are sold.

736
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. We'll say goodbye TIF. Thank you, And

737
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: I think you might need to sell a lot of

738
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: your stuff, according to doctor Bill, including your motorbike. I'll

739
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: take care of it so you can find some in

740
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: a piece.

741
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: I'm not going to call him doctor Prozac anymore. Then

742
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: that doesn't make me happy.

743
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone.

744
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: There's nothing I said that would imply that she has

745
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: to give up things in order to increase her happiness.

746
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 3: All I'm saying is that five motorbikes are not necessarily

747
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 3: going to make Tiff five times as happy.

748
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: Did you write that down, Harps? Did you write that

749
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: particular piece of information.

750
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: Now, I don't have five motorbikes.

751
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: I think was the number bill for four make you happy?

752
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, four, You'll reach a certain plateau and anything after

753
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 3: that just doesn't matter.

754
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being bullied right now. Thanks everyone,