WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 10 July 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.840 Lateener, welcome the Late Debate. 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:09.639 Well, thanks for joining us on the Late Debate. I'm 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.560 James Macpherson with Liz Stauer and Joe Hilda Brand. You'd 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.280 be familiar with how some parents do a gender reveal 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:18.599 to show the gender of their newborn child. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.560 Well we've got a very unusual. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.319 Gender reveal to show you a little later in the program. Plus, 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.320 when we look at the papers, the Tasmanian government promised 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.000 to build ten thousand new homes, turns out they've built 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.400 six in six years. And a story on the front 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.760 page of Tomorrow's Australian detailing how labor MPs have been 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.360 told to stop posting silly memes about nuclear energy if 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:40.440 they want to win the debate. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:41.280 Who knew. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.920 We talk about all of that soon, but first let's 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.320 talk about youth crime because it's a huge problem in 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.680 the country, but what to do about it. Well, in Queensland, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.639 David Chris A. Fooley is proposing adult time for adult crimes, 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.280 where if a young person commits a serious offense, they'll 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.680 be sentenced as if they're an adult. In South Wales 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.960 you've got wanding laws where police will be able to 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:06.840 search young people for knives. But in Victoria, well, they're 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.240 going with a novel approach encouraging teenagers to dob on 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.559 each other. The program is called Share if You Care. 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.200 But for the idea to work well, Crime Stoppers will 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.480 need to overcome the natural reticence of young people to 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.080 dB each other. In here's Crime Stoppers Chief executive Stella 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.720 Smith explaining part of that problem. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.360 We also want to overcome or challenge that thinking around 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.200 snitches get stitches, which is a common thing that we 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.560 hear from young people. But I would say to them, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.920 who does that narrative actually protect? So if you're thinking 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:50.160 about that in family violence incidents, in child sexual abuse cases, 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.920 that's a narrative that serve perpetrators really really well. What 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.800 we're saying to young people is you have the power 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.880 to make a difference. Trusters, come forward with your information 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.280 and let us do something to actually solve some of 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:05.560 these issues in the community. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:08.480 Now, Joe and Liz, if they can get over the 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.200 reticence of young people to dB in their mates, the 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:13.760 idea has some mirrit because what they're working on is 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:15.760 a lot of young people they've got their phone, so 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.239 they record crimes and they either post it online or 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.440 they share it with someone else, and so what they've 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.160 done is created a website where they've said, if you've 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.800 got those images or that video on your phone, you 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.000 can send it in, upload it anonymously, and then police 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:31.720 can take it from there. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.080 What do you think. Look, obviously, the kids who are 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.640 doing these crimes and then posting about them doing the 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.560 crimes themselves is deplorable. Posting about it is just idiotic 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.639 and also deplorable because it actually fuels more crime, because 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.639 it becomes a sort of cycle of braggadocio where each kids, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.520 I know they don't know what bragadocio means, but you know, 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.480 we're a cycle where each kid they try to outdo 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.280 each other, and that is what has been happening. I 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:58.040 think comparing these kids to pedophiles and domestic violence perpetrators 0:02:58.080 --> 0:02:59.600 is maybe a bit much. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:00.919 That's what they're going to be say. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.720 I don't think. Yeah, I think that's a bit weird. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.880 But again, saying oh, we've got to change the narrative 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.560 around stitches, get stitches, Well, how about you change the 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.880 narrative around the stitches. In other words, how can you 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.799 guarantee that someone even if they're able to upload the 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.520 video anonymously. Whoever gets caught as a result of that 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.000 is going to know that someone who had that video, 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.920 someone in their circle, someone who there will be no 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.760 doubt some kind of paper trail from or the kid 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.440 will remember did that. And so how I mean, I 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.560 grew up in a pretty, you know, rough suburb at 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.360 the time. You know you didn't you didn't snitch, not 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.880 necessarily because of just some you know, code of honor, 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:43.880 as though you were sort of, you know, a boy 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.240 scout who had sworn an oath of allegiance to whoever. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.400 You didn't snitch because you're scared of the payback. That's 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.080 where the stitches come in. And so I think let's 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.520 talk about the narrative and more talking about the stitches. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.839 Maybe that might convince them kids to come forward. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.920 That was my thoughts exactly when she's like, snitches get snitches. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.280 But think about it, who does that narrative protect? It 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.040 protects the person who doesn't snitch because they know they're 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:11.800 going to be the one to get the stitches. 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:13.800 Hence the saying lady. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.120 But of course the anonymity part of this is what 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.719 crime Stoppers is leaning most heavily on. Encouraging young people, Hey, 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.760 you can just upload it. No one will ever know 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.680 it's you, although they might remember who was there at 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.680 the time, and who had their phones out, and who 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.159 are their friends that they might have shared that footage with. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.640 But here is Stella Smith from Crime Stoppers, once again 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.680 underlying this idea of it will be completely safe kids 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:44.839 just upload anonymously. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.600 We can have young people sharing video footage with us 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.320 on our website. Very easy to report to crime Stoppers. 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.760 Obviously you can do it over the phone, but the 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.440 online reporting platform for us has really taken off. Around 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.520 two thirds our report in Victoria are received online and 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.120 many of those have video footage with them. So what 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.279 we're saying to young people is, if you have this 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.679 video footage on your phone, or you have video footage 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.800 that you've filmed and put somewhere else, share it with 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.600 crime Stoppers so that we can actually do something about it. 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.200 Don't you share it with your friends. Don't leave it 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:20.880 and ignore it. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.200 Now I'm really torn over this because obviously we all 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.240 remember the school yard where it was always the teachers 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.840 who encouraged dibberdobbing and all the students who despised it 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.680 and that's something that I think is ingrained in Aussie culture. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.000 Nobody likes a dibb adobber. And I've noticed that the 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.039 state has more and more encouraged people to go down 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.560 this route, whether it's illegal parking. They've now got this 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.200 new app that you can go on. There's been six 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.320 thousand reports just this year. If you see someone illegally 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.600 parked in your neighborhood, tell the state about them and 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.039 just as will be done. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.920 So there's that kind of dabbing going on during the pair. 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:01.800 In July twenty. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:06.960 One, we saw crime stoppers get ten thousand calls dabbing 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.600 people in post a anti lockdown rally that. 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.640 Only had three thousand, five hundred attendees. Three thousand, five 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.840 hundred attendees and ten thousand people who were friends or 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.719 family or maybe saw photos online who were then ringing 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.479 up crime stoppers to be like, I'm here to dob 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:26.400 do you want to. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.719 Know their names and numbers? I find that truly frightening. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:36.600 It does remind people of Nazi Germany, the USSR, where everyone. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.840 Became community informants. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.680 And the kind of distrust that creates amongst neighbors and friends, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:47.000 family otherwise tight knit communities is something I think the 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.359 society really does roll their nose up at and should 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:56.080 obviously in this context, they're just trying to, hey, get 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.600 you guys to help us out with your own youth 0:06:58.640 --> 0:06:59.560 crime problem. 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.240 Just don't know that it's going to be popular and 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:03.080 amongst youth. 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.440 And I don't think it should be because we all 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.760 know we've now got issues like climate change breathing down 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.480 our necks where it's just going to be a matter 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.480 of time where that will to be a dibber dobber as. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.400 The highest crime stuffers. Next door's got your reconditioner on. Again. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.040 They don't even have soul luck. 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.240 Joe's had two barbecues within the last month. Okay, we're 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.440 only allowed one according to state rules. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.840 I saw him drive his car three times last week. 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:32.840 That's exting. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.760 This is because this is where you've this evidence of 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.120 a cross on your look. 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:39.760 I don't mind that. I don't I don't mind that 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.600 they're doing it and that they're trying to solve those crimes. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.040 But again, I'm just not convinced that she's speaking the 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.760 language of the youth, you know what I mean. Think 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:53.480 about it. We have we have a website now that's 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.520 proving quite popular with the kids today. It's on the 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:03.200 largest upload your video to our HTTP address on the 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.160 World Wide Web. And if you do that, then you 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.960 will know that you have served your community well. Because 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.280 when you think about it, we do have to change 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.559 the narrative of that old say you get to it again, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.480 like if you're gonna ask, like you're not just asking 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.040 young people, like any young person is not looking at 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.800 that yeah word, you know, okay boomer, you know, no 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.280 young person is actually listening to that full stop let swift. 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.680 Let alone, that's right. Let alone. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.600 A young criminal, a young violent criminal who is hanging 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.640 around taking videos of you know, his mate bashing other 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:40.520 people or doing break and enders or whatever it is 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:41.080 that they do. 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.320 I don't think they're going to respond to that. I 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.480 would do something like we'll give you some cash and 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:52.040 you won't get bashed for a tag of courses. 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.200 They're putting it on teenagers to dob in their mates, 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.960 when the real issue is the Victorian government want to 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.720 raise the age of criminal responsibility. We all know they've 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.800 been lax on bail conditions. The police force aren't respected 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.760 because they've got this you know, pick and choose attitude 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.160 when it comes to crime. If you protest lockdowns, you 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.160 get shot with a rubber bullet. But if you protest 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.440 in favor of Palestine and do all sorts of disruptions, 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.120 somehow police stand back. And then you've got the government 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.680 themselves who are incredibly arrogant, full of secrecy. And we 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.839 wonder whether there's a youth crime problem. I wonder where 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:25.760 they're learning it all from. 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.480 Indeed, and look, it's not a dumb idea to just 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.360 be like, let's see if we can get the youth themselves. 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:32.959 To dB each other in. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.559 But while an upload will be anonymous on the site, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.120 you mean to tell me that crime Stoppers doesn't know 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.360 exactly who posted that and can they themselves contact that 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.840 person to find out more about Okay, who are these 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:47.720 people in the video? 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.120 It's not like they wouldn't then be there. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.360 I mean, I'm sure, well, I'm sure they would just 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:54.960 maybe just by seeing the person's face, they would then 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.080 have the police database and the thing to match. I'm 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.640 sure it's probably not the first time a lot of 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.680 these people have come into contact with law. But again, 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.600 if this is their idea of a campaign that appeals 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.719 to criminal teenagers to come forward. And again it's a 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.040 very good point. Snitches get stitches could well be you 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.760 know Dan Andrews policy on hotel quarantine. 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.480 Who is in charge it? I just don't like this 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.440 ongoing idea of dog. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.760 People into Yeah, now there's something a bit off about it. 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.200 Let State Daddy know and he'll If you can't. 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.400 Rust your fellow criminal gang members not to w it, 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.400 who can you trust as crazy wealth? 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.520 Well, speaking of anonymity, there's not much in schools run 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.720 by the Exclusive Brethren's parents of a network of private 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.440 schools run by the church sect of complaining their children 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.600 are being monitored for their online activity, both in school 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.840 and outside of school. Now, I've got a couple of 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.560 thoughts on this because there's a couple of issues. The 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.240 first is that these students are in thirty one campuses 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.760 across Australia, about twenty five hundred students. They're issued with 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.160 school laptops and so they know that their activity online 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.920 will be monitored by the school, but then it's reported 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.400 to the church that they're a part of. But more 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.080 than that, parents are expected to report any unauthorized online 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.280 activity from their kids to the church as well. One 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.280 of the parents from one of the schools told the 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.800 Guardian quote, you can't protect your child as a parent 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.760 without getting done as a member of the church. They're 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.440 looking for you to dob in your child if they're 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.840 doing anything the church doesn't like. So I've got two 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.600 thoughts on this. Number One, great to see some parents 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.439 taking some active interest in their children's online behavior. Would 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.520 that more parents would And good on the school for 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.800 doing that as well. I don't have any problem there. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.520 But where it gets messy is then, according to reports 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.600 in the Guardian from parents and school staff, parents are 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.560 expected to report any misbehavior from their children to the church, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.880 who then provide pastoral care, which starts to sound a 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.679 little imposing on a nuclear family. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.440 Especially when we already know that snitches get stitches. Exactly 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.199 the parents are snitching on their kids, what kind of 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.120 example are they setting to the non dobbers of tomorrow. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:20.720 Anyway, Sorry, I'm not quite sure what the idea behind 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.199 this of Firstly, farbeit from me to believe a Guardian report, 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.720 the OSG, the umbrella of these schools, does say nothing's 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.959 being breached in the Privacy Act. Everyone is aware of 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.800 the happening, all students they sign up for this when 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.920 they join the school, So I'm kind of like, who's 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.480 really complaining about this? Go to another school if you 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:40.240 don't like it. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.280 Then they make a big deal about all their CCTV 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.679 camp all over our campuses. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.360 There's CCTV all over every campus, as it should be. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.040 That's just no brainer. And while we're. 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.200 Being watched constantly, it's a state of surveillance. I simply 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.600 don't understand why anyone would complain about this when this 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.440 is the system that you signed up to. And I 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.280 actually take my hat off to these people who are 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.880 taking very seriously, especially at a time when the government 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.080 is crowing about it every single day, the damage that 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.440 social media is doing to our young people. We've got 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.200 to protect them online. Well, these guys have just stepped. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.200 In and done it themselves. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.240 Now that isn't to say that these kids couldn't get 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.360 their hands on another device that isn't monitored. These are 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.920 school laptops, which I think all school laptops should have 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:33.920 very serious net nannies on them. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:35.960 And some of the sites that are. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.400 Banned include facebooks, So these kids can't be on school 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.480 laptops using Facebook. And we know that kids get into 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.480 trouble with those We're talking about social media and the 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.640 damage it does on young people. These guys are ensuring 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.120 well you can't even access it. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:52.920 Do the imagine thing about this Joe, You would know 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.800 this is her parent, right is When I was a kid, 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.400 my mum and dad always knew where I was, then 0:13:58.480 --> 0:13:59.280 who I was with. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:00.600 They all knew that. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.800 But these days your child can be sitting beside you 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.040 on the couch, they've got a device, and you don't 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.760 know where they are or who they're with. They could 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.360 be anywhere in the world, talking to absolutely anybody. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.560 It's very difficult. You can that's right, and you try 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:15.800 and sort of do all the right things. You try 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.679 and put the parental controls and you try to do them, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.920 but of course there's no way you can monitor everything 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.040 they're doing all the time know what you want to. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.560 You want to equip them with the skills to be 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.160 able to use their judgment, to know when something feels off. 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.480 It doesn't feel right to have a relationship where they'll 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.320 tell you about things instead of being ashamed or embarrassed 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.120 and not tell you and all that sort of stuff. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.320 But this story has got everything for me, Like the 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.800 idea that parents who have chosen to send their kids 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.560 to school run by the Exclusive Brethren and now complaining 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.240 that they seem to be kind of pretty strict and 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.320 stickless through the rules. I'd always try to ask and 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.360 what we're doing, And I was like, if you don't 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.600 want to be part of a community that has strict 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:01.240 rules and very strict expectations and a bit cloistered from 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.760 you know, other websites of those sorts of values, I 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.720 don't know, maybe don't join a cult like it's the 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:13.400 Exclusive Brethren. What about an Exclusive Brethren? Don't you understand? 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.520 I mean that does exactly what it says on the package. 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.720 They're exclusive and they're a Brethren, Like I just don't, 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.920 just like if you how are you complaining about this? 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.520 And how is any member of the Exclusive Brethren talking 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.920 to the Guardian? Have you gotta complain about him? At 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.160 let's complain about him to a newspaper? Then heard off like, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.920 no way from the Exclusive Brethren is reading this? Oh jeems? 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.520 It says, did you see brother Michael, Brother Michael, have 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.720 you seen the Guardian? What's the Guardian? The Guyian like 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:42.880 our guardian Angel? 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:43.480 You know? 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.320 Like you I mean like you know, it's just bumkers. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.600 It is like, it's bumkers what they're doing, and it's 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.440 obviously ridiculously over the top. But if you go, if 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.320 you're hanging out with the Exclusive, if you're putting your 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.000 kids in your school exclusive Brethren, like, what on earth 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:58.680 do you expect? 0:15:58.680 --> 0:15:59.000 You know what? 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.400 Oh this exclusive Brethren thing? Oh jase's a bit harder 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.440 that I thought. I thought they'd be a bit more 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.520 laid back. You know, they're not like this at the pub. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.160 And it bears mentioning that the OSG do insist that 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.440 the Church is in no way involved in all this 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:18.040 surveillance that the parents are complaining of Chinese. It doesn't 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.600 make sense on quite a few fronts, but I'd say 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.680 it's just another stitch up by the Guardian on a 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.080 group of people who are obviously very, very churchy and 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.440 therefore probably not the Guardian's type. To a disturbing story 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.680 about an Australian engineer by the name of Robert Pether. 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.880 He was arrested in twenty twenty one in Iraq and 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:46.880 in what can only be described as completely trumped up chargers. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.800 Nobody can make head nor tail of the case, but 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.240 he and his colleague have been in prison now in 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:55.640 Iraq for. 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.120 Over three years. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.040 They were slapped with a sentence of five years and 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:05.960 find sixteen million dollars, and there they remain, despite what 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:10.400 the Albanese calls their very best efforts to get him out. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.320 One wonders, though, why were we so aware of, say, 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.360 the case of cheng Lie, And yet have you ever 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.520 heard of Robert Pether? 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:20.119 Probably not well. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.040 His wife has decided to take matters into her own hands. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:28.520 After Defat has repeatedly told her it's best to stay quiet. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.000 About this because that could impede our chances of getting 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.280 him out. She says, it has been a very, very 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.240 difficult journey, and after over three years, I have extreme anxiety. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.320 I have panic attacks and a lot of mental health issues, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.159 and a significant part of that is dealing with my 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.639 own government. It's a living hell, and every week we 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.040 wonder what new fresh level of hell we're going to face. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.680 It really doesn't need to be this hard. Now. 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.679 The UN has said that in their estimation, he is 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.480 being arbitrarily detained. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.719 The judge only looked at this for fifteen minutes. 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.720 They'd already been detained for five months waiting for their 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.920 movement in court, the judge slapped this five year imprisonment sentence, 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.200 this massive fine on them within fifteen minutes. And again 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.960 nobody knows what the details of this case is. They're 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.040 accused of fraud basically, but that's it. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.320 And I say, hats off to his wife for just. 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.840 Going, okay, this isn't getting enough publicity. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.639 It's it's publicity. Not all publicity is good publicity, despite 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:35.919 what I. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.160 Think, No, after three years have been yeah. 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.680 I can understand why should desperate. I'm thinking, look, there's nothing, 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.240 there's nothing else we can do. I mean, obviously nothing 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.160 to lose at this. I mean, I know people who's 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.320 got to do this, do this job and do that 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.960 sort of representation, and you know they do work very hard, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.240 often weighs very heavily on their conscience. Sometimes there's just 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.400 nothing you can do. Regime like you're have in Iraq. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.320 I have no doubt. I mean, it's sort of immaterial 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.359 what he is always't accused of doing. There's no natural justice, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.119 there's no due process, and so obviously the system is 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.960 completely and utterly cooked. The question is whether Australia has 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.159 any leverage with which to get him out, whether the. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.600 Content leverage if we don't have any not really like anyone. 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.240 Yeah, yeah, and look, I'm sure I'm sure there would 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:19.879 be attempting to do that, and I'm sure if we 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.760 had things, I mean, you can do things with cheng 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.560 Leo was obviously a bit different because she was a 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.160 very high profile journalist. There was impossible not to notice 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.840 that she'd suddenly just disappeared. And of course you've got 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.360 a media company that advocates for her, as we did here. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.359 But that's horrible to think just because she had profile. 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.920 But again that's right, and again that may necessary that 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.920 that could probably just as easily have backfired as it Well, 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.320 I don't think anyone. I mean, I know I certainly did, 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.880 and I know I know a lot of people, even 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.320 people right at the very top of the government, and 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.960 maybe it was as surprised as anyone else when suddenly 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.600 China decided that they were going to release and that 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.200 would have been done as part of, like you said, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.560 a suite of negotiations that would involved, you know, trade embargoes, 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.359 which would have involved, you know, turning down the rhetoric 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.760 on China, things a lot of people are around had about. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.840 So you know, these sorts of payoffs of the sort 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.520 of thing that happen all the time. I wish these 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:15.800 people every bit of luck in the world. It must 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.240 be absolutely horrible for them. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.880 Let's have listened to Kylie Moore Gilbert. She founded the 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.440 Australian Wrongful and Arbitrary Detention Alliance after she herself had 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.879