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Speaker 1: I've spoken to my next guest a number of times

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Speaker 1: over the years. I think most times when he's released

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Speaker 1: a new book, it goes back to raising boys and

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Speaker 1: stories of manhood, raising babies, raising girls that he's done

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Speaker 1: at all, and I reckon his kids will be the

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Speaker 1: best behaved in the world, surely, Steve Biddolf, Good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Matthew, nice to talk to you again.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, a new book, Wild Creature Mind, and this is

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Speaker 1: all about sort of getting understanding your brain.

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Speaker 2: I suppose, Matthew, what it's really about and the reason why,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm sort of getting quite ancient now and

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Speaker 2: was ready to just go go fishing, there's this huge

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Speaker 2: problem still out there with anxiety. Anxiety is just smashing

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Speaker 2: our whole world and every couple of every you know,

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Speaker 2: you get half a dozen mums and dads together, and

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Speaker 2: at least two of them will have a child with anxiety.

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Speaker 2: And so I thought, I can't just hang up my hat.

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Speaker 2: I've got to get onto this and find out what

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Speaker 2: causes it. And there's some simple ways to help people

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Speaker 2: to not be anxious, and that's what the book is about.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back a stead why the anxiety? Where does

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Speaker 1: that come from. Is that helicoptering? Is that? What is it?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: No, I think what it is is that we've had

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Speaker 2: a misunderstanding of how our brains work, Matthew, that it

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Speaker 2: turns out, I don't know if you've ever seen a

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Speaker 2: picture of a brain or your listeners have, but most

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Speaker 2: people have seen it, and it's sort of got two

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Speaker 2: halves to it, and in fact, if you sort of

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Speaker 2: pull on the two halves, they open up the way

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're sharing amandain, you know, it sort

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Speaker 2: of just pulls apart, and the two halves to have

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Speaker 2: a really different job. The left side is the one

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Speaker 2: that does the talking and the thinking, and the right

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Speaker 2: side is that kind of our animal brain which checks

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Speaker 2: out everything and is very very It turns out this

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Speaker 2: is very new thinking, different to what we used to

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Speaker 2: think that it's actually very very smart. And so but

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Speaker 2: the trouble is that when we get anxious, we go

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Speaker 2: into our left mind and we go round and around

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Speaker 2: in circles. I'm sure listeners you know, in bed at

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Speaker 2: night you've got a problem and you go round and

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Speaker 2: round and round. And so what we discovered, and these

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Speaker 2: were some much smarter people than me. Psychiatrists and neuroscientists

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Speaker 2: over in the UK that we're working on these two

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Speaker 2: hemispheres discovered that the right side, when we're anxious, it's

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Speaker 2: like it's like a little wild creature inside us that

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Speaker 2: is shouting at us to get our attention. And because

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Speaker 2: we stay on the left side and just keep you know,

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Speaker 2: up in our heads rattling around, when what we really

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Speaker 2: should do is use some skills which we teach in

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Speaker 2: the book, which is to go and find out what's

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Speaker 2: over on the other side of our brain and ask

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Speaker 2: it why it's causing us all this grief, because it's

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Speaker 2: got something to tell us. Now that's probably got your

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Speaker 2: totally mystified, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I want to ask how we listen to

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Speaker 1: the world creature sign.

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Speaker 2: Yes now for listeners at home. Can you can try

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Speaker 2: this as long as you're not driving a car at

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Speaker 2: the moment, And which is that if you just for

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Speaker 2: a moment, think to somebody that you care about, someone

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Speaker 2: that you like in your life, maybe maybe one of

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Speaker 2: your kids, or your mum or your dad, or someone

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Speaker 2: that you care about you've known for ages. Just choose

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Speaker 2: a person and then you think of them and picture

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Speaker 2: them in your mind, and then if you go down

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Speaker 2: into your body, what you'll notice is that there's stuff

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Speaker 2: going on in your body. When you think of that person.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's kind of you might have you're annoyed

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Speaker 2: with them, or you feel a you know, soft loving

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Speaker 2: feelings towards them. But down below those emotions where they're

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Speaker 2: coming from is actually physical sensations. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: if you feel warm to someone, that's usually around your

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Speaker 2: heart and it's a kind of soft feeling, or if

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Speaker 2: you're a bit worried, there might be a clean in

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Speaker 2: your tummy or a bit of a catch in your

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Speaker 2: throat there, and those physical sensations are coming from your

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Speaker 2: right hemisphere of your brain because it hasn't got any words.

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Speaker 2: You know, animals don't have words. A tiger doesn't think,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think I'll go and hunt for a deer.

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Speaker 2: You know, it just feels that and just goes and

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Speaker 2: does it. And so the part of our mind that

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Speaker 2: came from millions of years of animal life talks through

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Speaker 2: the body. And so if you listen to your body

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Speaker 2: when you're anxious, and you go down and find where

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Speaker 2: it lives, then it'll you can actually make the anxiety dissolve.

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Speaker 2: And we can explain how you do that in a second.

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Speaker 2: But I would use this two or three times a

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Speaker 2: night to get back to sleep if I wake up,

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Speaker 2: and and i'm teaching it, I'm finding it helps my

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Speaker 2: patients get better four or five times faster by just

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Speaker 2: using their body and the messages of trying to send them.

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Speaker 1: Is what you're talking about, a gut feel essentially.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we've always had these names for it that you know,

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Speaker 2: intuition and gut feelings, but we sort of didn't have

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Speaker 2: any real understanding. We kind of left them to chance.

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Speaker 2: And but what you can do, say, say if you're

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Speaker 2: driving to the to the airport for an big oversea

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Speaker 2: trip and and somewhere in your tummy something feels a

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Speaker 2: bit kind of irk as you're driving along, something isn't right,

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Speaker 2: and if you're smart, you'll stop the car and you'll

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Speaker 2: just go down and your stomach and say, now, okay,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a clenching feeling, and you put some

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Speaker 2: words to it, try and describe it as low. It's

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Speaker 2: a bit like a bit of a churning, just a

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Speaker 2: little bit. And what will happen is that the left

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Speaker 2: side of your brain will suddenly pop with what it is,

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Speaker 2: and you'll think, oh, you know, it's my sunnies. I

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Speaker 2: left them by the phone.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: And if you're right, what will happen is your tummy

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Speaker 2: will soften and the feeling will go away. If you're

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Speaker 2: not right and you keep on driving and it's still there,

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Speaker 2: it's probably your part thought or something else. And so

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Speaker 2: but you know, that isn't a very important example. But

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Speaker 2: if you know, if some if someone is anxious, he's

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Speaker 2: got a child who's anxious or in you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: naturally quite an anxious sort of nature. I wake up

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Speaker 2: in the night and I've got lots of things I

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Speaker 2: could worry about, you know, health problems with family and

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Speaker 2: things like that. But what I do is I'll wake

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Speaker 2: up and I think, Okay, there's something in me that's anxious.

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Speaker 2: So you don't say I'm anxious or I'm angry, because

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Speaker 2: then it feels like it's all of you. But if

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Speaker 2: you say there's something in me that's anxious, Okay, where

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Speaker 2: does it live? Okay, it's in my throat, or it's

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Speaker 2: around my heart. Okay, what's it doing. Oh it's kind

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Speaker 2: of thumping, or it's gripping. I had a really much

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Speaker 2: loved friend who lost his wife and he was in

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Speaker 2: a bad way, and he said, you know, can you

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Speaker 2: help me? And I I was spent sat with him

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Speaker 2: him and I said, what's going on in your body?

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Speaker 2: And he said, it's like there's a stone in my

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Speaker 2: heart and a stone in my throat, and that such

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Speaker 2: a you know, painful and vivid feeling of it. And

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Speaker 2: so we just said, just sit with that feeling in

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Speaker 2: your throat, just give it a bit of space. Just

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Speaker 2: what is it trying to do? And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: those big tears came out. And so now he could

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Speaker 2: have gone to a psychologist, you know, for ten sessions

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Speaker 2: or something and talked around the problem, but his body knew.

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Speaker 2: And it was one of the most moving moments in

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Speaker 2: my life, Matthew, just that the speed of which his

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Speaker 2: body knew to move the feeling upwards and out and

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Speaker 2: do that what our animal selves are very good at

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Speaker 2: getting through things, very tough. It's like a wild, wild

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Speaker 2: tiger walking beside us, this wild creature mind.

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Speaker 1: Well, so all right, getting kids to tap into that

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Speaker 1: though when they're anxious and that's is it an easy

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Speaker 1: skill to teach a child.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's we have lots of instructions in the

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Speaker 2: book for doing with children. But if you're listening today,

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Speaker 2: it's you sit with your child, and what you've got

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Speaker 2: to do is you have to get into your own

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Speaker 2: wild creature mind. And so you've got to calm down

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Speaker 2: and you sit, maybe sit on their bed beside them,

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Speaker 2: and they're talking about what's going on, and you say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it sounds really rough. What's been happening with your friends?

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Speaker 2: And just you know, might be like a little six

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Speaker 2: year old and you say, where do where does that

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Speaker 2: bad feeling live And they'll say, oh, it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's in my tummy. I just feel really bad in

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Speaker 2: my tummy, like a big black lump in my tummy.

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Speaker 2: And you say, okay, that's it's a black lump in

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Speaker 2: your tummy. Just and what's it trying to say to you?

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Speaker 2: What do you think that black lump is trying to

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Speaker 2: say to you? And tell you? And they'll nearly always

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Speaker 2: know what it is, Matthew. You know it's that friend

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Speaker 2: is no good. You know, I'm just going to not

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Speaker 2: be their friend, or or I'm really sad because my

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Speaker 2: mate's leaving school. And the feeling will come up from

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Speaker 2: it's coming into their art and then it will come

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Speaker 2: up into their face. And so it's a fantastic you know,

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Speaker 2: very little kids. They can draw it for you, and

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Speaker 2: what it does is they get the sort of sense

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Speaker 2: of like, yes, it's there, but I can look at

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Speaker 2: it and I can think about it calmly. And so

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Speaker 2: you know, the kind of people that go and punch

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Speaker 2: their friends or they crash cars and things, they've got

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Speaker 2: not the slightest idea what's happening inside them. They've just

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Speaker 2: got no idea. All they know is they went off

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Speaker 2: the handle. And I've worked with a man who is

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Speaker 2: you know, what's the first that you know that you're angry.

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Speaker 2: It's when someone is lying on the floor of the pub,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I've just decked them. That's the first

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Speaker 2: they knew. And that's way too late. Yes, And so

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Speaker 2: in the book there are all these exercises for you know,

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Speaker 2: imagine all your problems went away. How would your body feel,

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Speaker 2: you know, think of someone that annoys you. How does

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Speaker 2: your body feel? Think of someone that you really really like?

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Speaker 2: And you train yourself to notice these books, you know,

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Speaker 2: so everyone listening to this program right now is having

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Speaker 2: body feelings. It's there all the time. It's like a

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Speaker 2: beautiful wild animal that just walks beside you and looks

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Speaker 2: out for you, and so really worth paying attention to.

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Speaker 1: So it does guard your boundaries to some degree.

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Speaker 2: Yes, many people have trouble with boundaries. There's a story

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Speaker 2: of a mum in hospital just had a new baby

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Speaker 2: in the book and the doctor's doing these experiments on

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Speaker 2: little babies and taking blood samples which they really don't need.

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Speaker 2: And she's a very usually very quiet person, goes along

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Speaker 2: with everything, but when they come to take her baby

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Speaker 2: to take a blood sample, she just has this little

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Speaker 2: this feeling comes up, you know, like a kind of

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Speaker 2: a gripping feeling in her shoulders and her neck, and

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Speaker 2: she just says, no, you know. And so if you're

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Speaker 2: a person that has trouble knowing what to go along with,

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Speaker 2: your body will know and so take them. Say, you know,

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Speaker 2: someone says, you know, would you cook, you know, fifteen

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Speaker 2: cakes for the faith? You say, look, I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to have a think about it for a couple of minutes.

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Speaker 2: I'll ring you back and then you put the phone

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Speaker 2: out and you'll listen to your body and your body's

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Speaker 2: going no, you know, I'm exhausted. You know what they're

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Speaker 2: always asking me, you know, and then you know what

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Speaker 2: you want.

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Speaker 1: And so then you do it anyway. For the faith

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Speaker 1: that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, well maybe, but what happens is that sometimes people

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Speaker 2: just have never ever thought what do I want? And

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Speaker 2: a lot of women were raised in this way. You

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Speaker 2: think of everyone else, that's true, and it just makes

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Speaker 2: you cranky and exhausted. So if you're a listener who's

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Speaker 2: got boundary problems, there's a whole chapter about how to

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Speaker 2: build up your boundaries so you and you and you're

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Speaker 2: happy to be around because you're not resentful all the time.

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Speaker 1: So understanding this, then I suppose too Steven helps you

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Speaker 1: get rid of the trauma from bad things that you've

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Speaker 1: experienced because you learn how to deal with it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's a there's a beautiful story in the book

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Speaker 2: about a paramedic who had bad trauma. Matthew as a

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Speaker 2: young dad called James, and he's and he's on the

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Speaker 2: point of louke, you know, he's going to his career

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Speaker 2: is on the rocks. He just can't go to work anymore.

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Speaker 2: And he finds her really, really he's lucky. He gets

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Speaker 2: a really good woman counselor in her fifties, and she's

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Speaker 2: just so solid and kind. And in about the third session,

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Speaker 2: she asked him the same question, what's happening in your body?

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Speaker 2: And he says, there's a clenching around my heart and okay,

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Speaker 2: just make it welcome, listen to it. What's it doing?

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Speaker 2: And he said it's moving up. It's moving up into

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Speaker 2: my throat. And then all of a sudden he starts

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Speaker 2: to cry. And when he finished crying, she says, what's happening.

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Speaker 2: He says a single word. Matthew says Anita. And she says,

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Speaker 2: who's Anita? And he says, the little girl who was

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Speaker 2: in a pedestrian accident and they took her to hospital,

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Speaker 2: but she died on the way. And she'd been conscious

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Speaker 2: when they were getting her into the ambulance, and a

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Speaker 2: mum had been there outside the school and she was

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Speaker 2: badly injured, and he'd said to this little girl, don't worry,

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Speaker 2: you'll be all right, and of course she wasn't all right.

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Speaker 2: And so once he and the counselor knew of the

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Speaker 2: hundreds of things that an ambulance driver has that could

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Speaker 2: be upsetting them. His wild creature mind had knew which

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Speaker 2: one it was, and so as soon as they knew

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Speaker 2: about it, they could work out her, you know, a

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Speaker 2: way to find forgiveness for for what had happened, because

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Speaker 2: he hadn't done anything wrong, but to understanding he felt

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Speaker 2: he had, you know, and so and so this is

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Speaker 2: what you know people with trauma. You know, you think, oh,

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Speaker 2: you can't get better, but there's always a specific hook

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Speaker 2: that has caught you. And but but you merely always

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Speaker 2: have no idea what that is. You know, he might

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Speaker 2: have gone through years of fleeing as a refugee or

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Speaker 2: being tortured, you know, in another country, And but there's

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Speaker 2: always a specific point and if you can find that point,

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Speaker 2: then you can be you can let it go and

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Speaker 2: move on. And so it's not it's not instant, and

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Speaker 2: it takes a very caring person to help you. But

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Speaker 2: it means that you can get we can get better

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Speaker 2: from anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. A couple of text messages have come in, Steve,

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Speaker 1: and I know you'll be interested in these. Fred says,

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Speaker 1: what your guest is talking about is so true. And

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Speaker 1: Sue says, I used to call my feeling a big

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Speaker 1: black washing machine in my tummy at school from about

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Speaker 1: ten years old until twelve when I was saved by

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Speaker 1: a great teacher and I was good at school. So

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Speaker 1: how about that.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy that she found a good teacher because

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Speaker 2: that washing machine feeling is just exactly what anxiety feels like.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you turned that around. And thanks

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Speaker 2: for letting us know, Steve.

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Speaker 1: What next? You're going back fishing? Now? Is that it?

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Speaker 1: This is the last chat. It's always the thought provoking chat.

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Speaker 1: And this book Wild Creature Mind out now, but yeah, fishing.

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Speaker 2: I must be the kayak this afternoon on the river.

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Speaker 1: Thank you match Yes, Steve, great speaking with you once again.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Terrific interview, Thank you, Thank you Steve.

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Speaker 1: A bit of author and the latest book, Wild Creature Mind.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that so interesting? And it resonates, doesn't it. We've

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Speaker 1: all got that feeling inside us when something is perhaps

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Speaker 1: not quite right.