WEBVTT - Episode 23: Will Power 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains coarse 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:42.560 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. The tone 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.240 in the male caller's voice was intimidating. The brief voicemail 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:52.040 he left was unusually abrupt. Kathy Hardy, a woman in 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.640 her sixties, heard it one day in October twenty twenty 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.720 two on her mobile phone. At the time, Kathy and 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:04.080 her husband Les, living in regional Victoria, had been wondering 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.720 about her cousin, Beverly Brooker. They had heard nothing since 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.160 Bev's birthday in March twenty twenty two, no texting or 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:18.199 calls for seven months from Kathy's lifelong friend Bev, living 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:22.440 just down the road from her handyman builder John Winfield. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.560 I've got a mysterious message on my phone. Please do 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.840 not ring this number. BEV is no longer available on 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:32.440 this number. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.360 Have nothing more to do with it. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.920 And it was quite gruff, and it was abrupt, and 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.000 there was no introduction to the speaker or anything. We 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.840 dismissed it and left it. It was a bit menacing 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.600 almost to me. I felt it was a bit of 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:49.280 a warning. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.240 Don't try and get in contact with this. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.720 As I understand it, Bev's phone was used to try 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.560 to telephone you, but you didn't pick up, and the 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.360 caller using Bev's phone left of voicemail, which you've described. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.040 That's correct, and the call was very brief. It was 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.160 less than ten seconds. We mostly spoke by text anyway, 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.799 So yes, it was out of the blue. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.639 And as best you can, Kathy, can you just say 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.360 what the caller said. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.040 It was like, do not ring this number. This number 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.160 is no longer available. Bev is not contactable on this number. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.560 It didn't say she was dead. It just warned me 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.640 off using the number. There was no warmth in the voice. 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:42.079 It was quite almost aggressive. Made me think twice, who 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:42.480 is this? 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:44.200 They didn't say who they were. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.400 Within hours of the release of the previous episode called 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:54.800 Suburban Gothic and the accompanying newspaper articles about John Winfield's 0:02:54.840 --> 0:03:01.079 extraordinary multimillion dollar windfall after the death of Bev brain cancer, 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.480 on September fifteen, twenty twenty two, I heard for the 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:11.120 first time from Bev's cousin Kathy Hardy. Before Bev became 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.640 terminally ill, she had left everything in her estate to Kathy, 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.280 but Kathy didn't know this until just the other day, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.799 and shortly before this episode was released, we recorded this interview. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:31.760 I had no idea until I read the paper on Friday. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.480 This is the article in the Australian based on the podcast. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.600 Correct your reaction. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:44.400 Oh, I was GOB's mate. I really was speechless. I 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.600 had no idea. 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.600 In the previous episode, you'll recall that Jeff Outerbridge from 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.400 the town of Balina, spoke of his sister Beverly Brooker 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:59.080 and her ties with John Winfield. John Winfield took total 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:03.680 charge of the funeral and cremation arrangements. John was the 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:09.280 executor and trustee of Bev's will, and he excluded most 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.520 of Bev's family and friends from what felt like a 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.640 secretive and unusually low key service. According to Jeff, he 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.480 said that John would claim this was what Bev really wanted. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.200 She made a significant change to her will six months 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.479 before she succumbed to misothelioma. The cancer had spread from 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:36.240 her lungs to her brain. Treatment options by then were palliative. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.240 With the change to her will, Bev left almost everything 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:46.240 in her estate to John Winfield. John had not featured 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.640 in the previous version of her will. The two introverts 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:55.080 and near neighbors. Bev and John first became friends after 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.440 he offered to do handyman work at her ocean facing 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.760 house near Lennox Head, and he was helping to organize 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.640 the care for her when she was very ill. Not 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.040 long before she died, Bev's solicitor told Jeff Outterbridge of 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.279 the purported role of John Winfield in Bev's life, but 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.480 Jeff is still incredulous about it. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.960 And the solicitor said to me, there's a name on 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:26.200 this paperwork that you won't recognize, and it is Bev's partner. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.560 And I looked at him with a funny face and went, 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.239 I don't think so, because Bev doesn't have a partner. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.479 I thought, this blake doesn't know what he's talking about. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.279 The story of John Ann Bromwin is stranger than fiction. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:45.360 The story of John and Bev is similarly remarkable. This 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.560 is part two of the story of how Bev's wealth 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.120 fell almost entirely into the hands of the executor of 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:57.480 her estate, her handyman John, while the only other beneficiary, 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:02.080 Bev's cousin Kathy, was completely oblivious for more than two 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.080 years to the fact that Bev had even died. It 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.000 looks like a textbook study of maladministration of an estate 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:16.560 by an executor, John, who clearly put his financial interests first. 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.680 He appears to have deliberately kept Bev's cousin Kathy in 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.720 the dark about the fact of Bev's death and of 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:31.479 Kathy's rights and entitlements. It raises serious questions about John's 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.000 influence on Bev when she was dying of brain cancer 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.120 and when she changed her will six months before her passing. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.760 Bev's original will in twenty eleven left everything to her 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:49.119 cousin Kathy Hardy. Bev's new will left almost everything to John, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.000 and the changes that Bev made to her will occurred 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:57.039 at a time when Bev was behaving very strangely as 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.560 the tumor in her brain was quite possibly affecting her cognition. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.839 A Winfield family friend, John Heaton, has asked on the 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.960 Facebook discussion group for the Bromwin podcast series, what does 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.960 any of this have to do with an investigation into 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.040 what happened to Broman? The answer is, it quite possibly 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.920 has a lot to do with Bromwin. In my view, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.480 and we are not suggesting for a moment that Bev 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.120 met with foul play. But while evidence of the handling 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.160 of Bev and her assets by John is not directly 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.360 relevant to Brohman's disappearance, it goes to questions of character 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.320 and an important legal concept which criminal defense lawyers and 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:46.920 prosecutors call evidence of a tendency that turns on whether 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.040 a person such as an accused, acts in a particular 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:57.000 way in different situations, such as with assets, money, property. 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.040 You could not make up the twists and turns in 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.040 this case. For reasons you are about to hear and 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.400 which I was not expecting. We are going to spend 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:14.240 more time on Bev Handyman, John cousin Kathy, and Bev's 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.440 two brothers in Barna, Jeff and Paul, before we start 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.080 the string of episodes which will reconstruct the two thousand 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.800 and two inquest into the presumed death in nineteen ninety 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:30.200 three of Bromwin Joey Winfield. Now let's go back to 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:35.520 October twenty twenty two. At that time, Kathy was perplexed 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.480 about having been warned off contacting Bev on her mobile phone. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.280 She didn't have contact details for Bev's brothers Jeff and Paul. 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.240 Most of the communication miss th ree Bev, so when 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.000 we were coming up, she'd let them know we knew 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.520 about them and what they were up to. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:54.960 Three Beev. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.080 But Bev's silence was troubling. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.720 There were no no Christmas messages, no Birthday messages, and 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.680 we started to think something's not quite right. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.720 But we couldn't find a death notice. We couldn't find anything, so. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.880 We were just sort of at a loss to know 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.640 what to do next, and we did lots of searches, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.920 and so it sort of left us in a quandary 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:21.320 and we just sort of. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.000 Sat on it. Really, it was not very satisfactory. 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.120 We did, or we thought we could do, to try 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.800 and find her, but to no avail. It was one 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.880 of those friendships where it was intermittent, but we could 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.920 take up from where we left off. We had a 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:42.560 lot in common in our parentage and she was my 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.480 link to the rest of the family. My brother and 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.240 I were brought up in Sydney and most of the 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.560 cousins were on the north coast of New South Wales, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.840 and she was that link to let me know who 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.079 was doing what and how things were going. Beverly's got 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.439 my mother's name a middle name, so there was their 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.840 closeness there, and I was grateful to have their friendship, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.360 and we always made sure that when we went up 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.400 that way that we called in and visited. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.320 Now the dates are important. Bev had been dead for 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.240 about a month when her phone was used by a 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.920 mail with a gruff voice to leave that message on 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:27.120 Kathy's phone. John Winfield had control of Bev's mobile phone. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.800 Two years later, in October twenty twenty four, Kathy's mobile 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:33.560 phone rang. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.719 Basically, I got a phone call who was late October, 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.720 so just last year, quite a gap. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.560 Kathy didn't recognize the number, so it went to voicemail. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:51.080 That was an office girl in a solicitor's office in 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.040 Ballana telling me that I was a beneficiary of a 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.640 will and they'd like me to contact them. They wanted 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.719 my bb details and a mailing address. They only had 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.480 my phone number that I didn't know how much at 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.920 that point. They just said, you've been the beneficiary of 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.480 some money. And I listened back to the voicemail and 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.199 that was my first time that I actually got clarification 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:20.520 that she'd actually died. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:22.200 They didn't say when. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.760 Kathy telephoned and spoke to someone at the law firm 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:27.640 in Ballina. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.320 We asked for a copy of the will as well. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.360 She sent all that through and that was a huge 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.319 shock to me, absolute shock. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:38.800 In fact, I burst into tears. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.840 I was really upset because that's the first time I 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.720 really had clarification that she was dead and that she 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.560 thought enough of me to give me that much money. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:53.440 I was blown away. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.840 By late October twenty twenty four, the Bromwin podcast series 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.079 was nearing the end of season two. My investigation had 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.000 been gaining traction for five and a half months since 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.440 the first episode was released in May twenty twenty four, 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.000 and folk in lennox Head were talking furtively about John 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.720 and the two deceased women in his life, Bromwin and Bev. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.040 In Victoria, Kathy's husband, Les Hardy, was shocked for another reason. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.240 He could see that John Winfield was named in Bev's 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.559 will as almost sole beneficiary as well as the executor 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:37.440 of her estate. Les Hardy is a subscriber to The Australian. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.800 He and Kathy had been reading about a blow called 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.800 John Winfield and his missing wife since May twenty twenty four. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:46.520 I couldn't believe it. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.400 When I got the will, I said, OK, this company right, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:50.760 can it this bloke here? 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.600 Kathy wanted to know more about her cousin and friend Bev. 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.640 I had so many questions. I wanted to know when 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.920 she did. I didn't know when she died. I wanted 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.880 to know what she died of. I wanted to know 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.720 where she was buried. And so a few days later 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.960 I rang back the solicitors again and I asked to 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.800 speak to the solicitor who. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:13.520 Made the will. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.400 I asked him what she died of and he told me, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.960 and I asked when she died and. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:20.600 He told me that. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.160 I asked, so, this John Winfield person, is he the 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.440 person that's in the paper? 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.080 And he said, yes, he is. 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.439 We had no idea. Why did you ask about John Winfield? 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.200 Well, I was curious. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.400 I get the weekend paper and we've been reading about 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.000 this situation with John Winfield. And we were interested because 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.560 it was on the north coast of New South Wales. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.520 It was a lanic said skinner's head, and because I 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.000 knew they've lived there, my ears pricked up. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:53.920 I was interested in it. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.240 I thought, well, surely there's not two John Winfield's in 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.720 the town. And then I said, so, what was the relationship? 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.280 And he said they were neighbors as far as he knew. 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.760 They went in a relationship, but they were close. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.959 I was a bit concerned because who is this fellow 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.000 who were few suspicious things about what had happened in 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.400 his past, And I wondered what made Bev connect with 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.800 this person in the first place. And I was concerned 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.160 for the boys, my cousins. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.760 We are going to come back to Kathy and Les 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:34.920 Hardy a little later. 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.400 Oh my god, I just can't believe it. Why don't 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:43.720 you find this out? 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.880 Bromwin's cousin and good friend, Megan Reid, was done by 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:53.600 the disclosures about Beverly Brooker. John's conduct in excluding Beb's 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.800 friends and relations from her funeral service in Balina in 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.640 late twenty twenty two, has called to stir and the 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.040 revelations about Bev's will and the multi million dollar estate 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.880 which went almost entirely to John Winfield, have fired people up. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.240 Keeping the family away that is really calculated. 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.600 It is just so suspicious, especially when she had brain cancer. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.920 The alternative scenario is that he really cared for her. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:31.200 And sorry, I know him. I don't think he's capable. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.120 The family is deeply suspicious that the funeral service was 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.000 conducted in such a low key way with just really 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.280 nobody who knew Bev. There, Like, was that really Bev's 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.720 will and wish? Or was that John's wish? 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.720 They could have contested that will. Definitely contested it on 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.040 the ground that she had brain cancer. What strikes me 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.000 as even more suspicious of this notebook that is unusual. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:05.000 John and Bev were not living together. Lawyers and experts 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.560 in financial planning have suggested to me that the diary 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.880 entries in relation to Bev's illness are integral parts of 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.560 John's evidence of his conduct in the event of the 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:22.680 will being disputed. The diary is John's insurance policy, and 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.760 according to one expert in financial planning, this is the 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.360 way that John is trying to show that he was 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.480 a big part of Bev's life. I asked a voice 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.440 actor to express parts of a note that I received 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.520 from a senior financial planner. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.880 To me, it shows intent to get his hands on 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.880 the estate. He has seen an opportunity with a single, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.440 vulnerable woman. He probably spoke to her every day while 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.600 working there. He is trying to show he was integral 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.640 to her care, but it wouldn't be too hard to 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.000 record her appointments. For example, Bev might say, I have 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.840 my own college's appointment tomorrow at too. He records that. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.080 Next day, he asks how it went, and he records that. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.879 It gives the impression he is more important or involved 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.320 than he probably was, at least until the end. Overlaying that, 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.240 of course, is her high level of vulnerability with brain cancer. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.680 This can change how people react to things and could 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:23.040 impact their decision making. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.639 On the other hand, John may have been assiduous and 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.879 diligent in his care for Bev, noting every appointment, her medication, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.080 the visits that she was receiving from the cancer Council. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.360 For him to do something like that, I can't imagine 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.120 that at all. I mean, why wouldn't he allow the family? 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:45.400 That's not right. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:46.359 How did he. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.480 Suddenly get guardianship and I don't want to see my family? 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.639 I don't believe that from a minute, like a bad movie. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.879 I talked to Crystal about it straight away. I said, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.439 you won't the one taking notefully to know wasn't me. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.919 She laughed, and I said, Crystal, hate to tell you 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.000 but it really does look dodgy. And she said, oh, 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:10.320 I think they were with friends. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.080 Crystal knew about it. That's interesting, yea, she knew. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:15.879 She knew about her. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.920 And I said, your father's never been good friends with anybody. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.520 And she said, oh, you don't know. It's changed so much. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.920 And I said, well, how is he doing with the podcast? 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.440 She said, oh, he's absolutely fine about it because he's 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.240 got so many friends out as this huge socialize. And 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.000 I said, did you see in the paper that said 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:35.200 that John's selling the house? 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.400 And I said, do you. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.840 Think he's doing a runner? And she said no, She laughed. 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.600 She said no. She said, there's nowhere in the world 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.200 he'd leave here. He's got a life here. He wouldn't leave. 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.040 He believes in himself so much, and he believes he's innocent. 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.240 If he believes it enough, he'll think the whole world 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:52.679 will too. 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.240 As we were talking about wills, I asked Megan about 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.639 something I recalled being told the past by her and 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.720 by Andy and Michelle read what has Crystal been told 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:06.720 about John's will? 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.280 Tells her that not just once, repeatedly, he tells her, 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.720 so she's not confused by it at the time. That 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.160 he's leaving her absolutely nothing. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.120 And why is that? 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.960 Has a mother walked out and anything that she had, 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:27.280 he's spent looking after her, and so therefore she shouldn't 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.800 get anything, which is just looking ridiculous. And I said, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.440 don't you find that weird? And she said, no, no, no, no, 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.200 Dad's just making sure that. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:38.600 I know my situation. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.120 He's brainwashed her into believing that she's not really entitled 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:44.879 to anything, and I don't really understand that. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:14.160 Let's return to Kathy and Les Hardy. Kathy was upset 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:19.120 by what she heard in episode twenty two, the extraordinary 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.560 control demanded by John over the conduct of Bev's funeral, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.560 the exclusion of Bev's friends and relations from the funeral service. 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.120 It was beyond the pale. Kathy was very surprised by 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.080 the disclosure that she had been the sole beneficiary in 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.080 the previous will. And Kathy hadn't been told about this 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.000 by the solicitor in Balner when he informed her in 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:51.040 October twenty twenty four of Bev's death. When Kathy called 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.840 me to talk about it, I shared details from a 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.080 property search that we had done on Bev's ocean facing house. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:06.560 We have the property record for the house in Skinner's Head, 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:12.200 Beverly's former house, and it's showing that the sale date, 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.360 that is the date on which it was acquired by 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:22.439 John Winfield, was the twenty seventh of April twenty twenty three. 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:28.359 John's newcastle the inheritance, and this time at zero cost 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.760 to him. The property had gone into John Winfield's name 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.199 seven and a half months after Bab's death, according to 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.199 the property records. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:45.120 And the moment that he was granted probate, he transferred 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.240 that property to his name. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.560 And it wasn't for another eighteen months after that that 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.560 I was informed by the solicitors that I was a beneficiary. 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:01.119 It's remarkable when John is the executor and trustee of 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:06.080 the will, he has these legal responsibilities. Now, in the 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.280 previous episode, you heard Jeff Outerbridge explain that he asked 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.879 a solicitor for advice on whether he and his brother 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:18.600 Paul could contest the will, but because neither brother was 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.760 named in either of Bev's wills, the legal advice that 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.440 they got was that it would be hard for them. However, 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.399 the one person who could make a legal challenge to 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.480 the will before the assets of the estate were distributed 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.080 with something that's called probate was Kathy Hardy. It is 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:44.120 important to emphasize something at this point. Les and Kathy 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:49.280 Hardy are comfortably off, unlike the brothers. Bev had told 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.560 Les and Kathy when they visited her in twenty seventeen 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.840 at her house that she had named Kathy in her will. 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.680 I can remember actually telling her putting the will, she's 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.880 not that much younger than you, you might outliver. 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.080 Kathy speculated back then that a gift of perhaps five 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.639 thousand dollars might be coming to her from cousin Bev, 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:18.280 but Kathy didn't covet it. Now, however, Kathy and Les 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.040 are of the same mind as Kathy's cousins Jeff and 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:26.120 Paul Outerbridge. They all smell a rat with the radical 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:30.000 change in Bev's will to benefit John Winfield. 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:35.440 Out of all the people who could have challenged that will, 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.560 Kathy is the person who could have, and she was 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:45.080 denied the opportunity because she wasn't even told anything about 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:49.399 the circumstances, and even worse, she wasn't even informed of 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.960 her cousin's death. And the idea that we wouldn't have 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:58.119 attended the funeral is just terrible, because we certainly would have. 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.199 Not only was she not informed, she was told in 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:07.920 a voicemail to back off. How does John justify that 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.560 he knows, because he's the executor of the will, that 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:16.960 Kathy is the only other beneficiary, so he knows that 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.800 Kathy's very important to Bev, and yet he doesn't tell 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:26.320 Kathy about Bev having died. And it's impossible to not 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.280 suspect that that's because he just wanted to conceal it 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:29.959 from Kathy. 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.600 That's the only thinking you can have on that he's 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.160 trying to cover up as much as he could. It's 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:42.399 quite deedious, really, it's almost to me feels like a 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:43.560 bit of a scam. 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:49.600 So hypothetical, let's imagine things turned out differently. You were 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.280 alerted to the fact that there was to be a 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.800 funeral service Bev had died. You went to the funeral, 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.320 You caught up with Jeff and Paul. You were subsequently 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:03.920 about the will. Jeff then showed you the earlier will, 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.160 which left everything to Kathy, and that will, of course, 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:13.240 had been fundamentally changed shortly before Bev died. Jeff also 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:19.959 informed you that Bev was becoming incredibly confused forgetting really 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:25.720 obvious and important things and was not herself, and that 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.920 everything had gone to John bar two hundred thousand dollars 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.960 for Kathy. Do you believe you would have returned to 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.480 Victoria and said, oh, well, that's the way it is, 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:41.240 or would you, with Jeff and Paul, have considered a 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:45.160 course of action to challenge the will before probate was granted. 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:46.919 Definitely. 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:50.879 Obviously we would have on behalf of myself, but on 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:54.840 behalf of the other two people involved. You could see 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:57.919 that some injustice had been done, and we would have 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:00.119 tried to do something. 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.639 About it immediately if we'd had the opportunity. Definitely. 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:06.960 If you don't treat other human beings like that, he's 0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:08.000 ad Johnny come lately. 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:08.880 As far as. 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:13.720 Her life goes, he's preyed on someone. Really, she wasn't 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:17.399 a recluse so much as she's just a quiet person. 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.480 She had friends from work, she was out and about, 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:25.760