1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,400
Speaker 1: Chris Coler, Welcome to straight Talk. Mait Mark, great to

2
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: be here. It's actually now is that your alter ego

3
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,000
Speaker 1: speaks to me the way you said that, Mark, great

4
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: to be here. Oh, Mark, thanks so much. Yeah, who

5
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: is it you? Well, let's just talk about the Chris

6
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,920
Speaker 1: Caller that I know from a long time ago. You're

7
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: a journalist. Maybe gives you a little bit background on

8
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 1: your journalism, like where you start, where are you now,

9
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and some of the organizations work for them?

10
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 1: What do you cover?

11
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm the finance editor at Channel nine nationally.

12
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 2: I cover the big picture stuff. My responsibility is interest rates,

13
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 2: the economy, housing market, ASX, and equity markets around the world.

14
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's my bread and butter. I'm doing

15
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 2: the RBA story every time, and I have been doing

16
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 2: that for a long time. I've always covered markets and finance,

17
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 2: haven't always been in TV. Started out in digital and

18
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 2: moved into newspapers. I worked at the Australian newspaper here

19
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: in Sydney for a few years and then headed towards

20
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 2: Fairfax and eventually by way into TV via Your Money,

21
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 2: which you and I spoke on quite.

22
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 1: Up for a long time, long time ago.

23
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 2: Now I had lots of chats on your long time

24
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 2: ago that I does feel like that.

25
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's I mean, you are the son of

26
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: Alan Cohler got Hi Allen mate, who I've known for

27
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,559
Speaker 1: a million years and some of our listeners will remember

28
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 1: Alan Coler. I don't know if he still is, but

29
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: used to be one of the voices on the Quantest

30
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 1: planes for me. Yeah, he's doing interviews. Was it was

31
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: like one of the original podcasters. Yeah, we didn't call

32
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 1: them podcasts in his interviews, but.

33
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 2: He's always liked that, the longer form interviews.

34
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I did a few with him actually, probably

35
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four or something that like go back. Well,

36
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 1: you're about ten, So your major business interests and in

37
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 1: terms of what your journalism is is about the economy,

38
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 1: the banking system, big institutions. Yes, you're with the largest,

39
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: if not one of the large media organizations in the country,

40
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 1: that's Channel nine group. But then you have this sort

41
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,079
Speaker 1: of alter ego. You do have an audio as Chris

42
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: Collar on Social.

43
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's increasingly split out, hasn't it. And you're speaking

44
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: of splits. You get a sense of my split personalities and.

45
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: Another personality, but like it's it's sort of like I

46
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: don't know if you're taking the pierce or whether you're

47
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 1: in terms of style I'm talking about because I know

48
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,679
Speaker 1: you've got a serious topic you're talking about. You're trying

49
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 1: to turn it into comedy. Are you going for comedy? Well,

50
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 1: I've never been a comedian. Really, I think it's pretty funny. Well,

51
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 1: that's nice of you to say.

52
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of it helps to send the

53
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: helps to send that information down that way I find.

54
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 2: I was coming home from long days covering really full

55
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 2: on economic and business stories, and I was talking to

56
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 2: my wife about them. She's a journalist too, not a

57
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 2: background in finance journalism, and the way we were talking

58
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,239
Speaker 2: about them, I kind of found that, you know, after

59
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 2: ten minutes fifteen minutes, I was taking the piss out

60
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 2: of the story a bit, and I was kind of

61
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 2: doing impressions of people and we kind of were like,

62
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 2: maybe you could do a video on that. It was

63
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 2: her idea for me to do my first vertical video

64
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 2: on TikTok way back then, and after a while I

65
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 2: just sort of one day decided to do it in

66
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 2: a character and just sort of really see what happens

67
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 2: with the theory that how badly could this go wrong?

68
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 2: It'll be fine. I don't know. I possibly should have

69
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,120
Speaker 2: thought about it more, because you know, your bosses don't

70
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 2: necessarily want to see.

71
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: You being an idiot.

72
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 2: But it went well and it sort of ended up

73
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 2: growing from there.

74
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 1: Well. Comedy, I think, has always been a great way

75
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:42,520
Speaker 1: to tell the truth without being heavily criticized for the truth,

76
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: and particularly someone like you who's and I don't know

77
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 1: which one is your alter ego, whether it's who you

78
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 1: are on Channel Mine or who you are on Instagram

79
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: and YouTube, but it's one of them, when maybe it's

80
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: a combination of them, and I think we all have them.

81
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 1: But I think what you're under lying theme of what

82
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: you say is in a sort of a pistakee way

83
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 1: but not it's not disrespectful either though it's but the

84
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 1: underlying theme is a truth that you are trying to establish.

85
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about say your latest one, which is I

86
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,360
Speaker 1: think the one you put up about the IRBA, and

87
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,040
Speaker 1: it was you might explain, it's you talking to yourself.

88
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 1: Of course you're both characters. Yeah, so just quickly take

89
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,920
Speaker 1: us through that. So your conversation. Yeah, and what's the

90
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: theme ultimately you want to what's your message you really

91
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 1: want to get out of that?

92
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I'm always trying to do it from the

93
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 2: perspective of normal people, the ones who are out there

94
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 2: dealing with an interest rate hike and dealing with what

95
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,279
Speaker 2: that means for them and their financial situation in their house.

96
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,159
Speaker 2: And I was in the room with Michelle Bullock on

97
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,679
Speaker 2: Tuesday in my journalistic capacity. I mean we were asking

98
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 2: questions about what this interest rate means, where's it come from,

99
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:54,840
Speaker 2: what's it seeking to achieve?

100
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 1: You know, you.

101
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 2: Want to get one question, you don't get to do

102
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 2: a full interview, But in my mind, it's really all

103
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,719
Speaker 2: about how much more, how much more we're piling now

104
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,160
Speaker 2: onto the borrowers in Australia and they're very vulnerable, you.

105
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 1: Mean, in terms of interest rates, all the story around it,

106
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 1: the interest rates, the actually interest.

107
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: Rate, the actually interest rate itself. I mean, this is

108
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 2: the mechanism. You and I have talked about this lots

109
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,160
Speaker 2: of times. It's not a scalpel, it's a sledgehammer. But

110
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 2: the sledgehammer hits so much harder when you've got two

111
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 2: point four trillion dollars worth of mortgage debt. It's not

112
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,840
Speaker 2: like it was five years ago, reads ago, and so

113
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,280
Speaker 2: I just think it's it's sort of not perhaps being

114
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,680
Speaker 2: discussed as directly as I might like it to be.

115
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: And so I kind of went into that room and

116
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 2: I thought, all right, I'm the borrower at home. I

117
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 2: don't really understand why my life has to get so

118
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 2: much harder to solve this inflation crisis for everybody else,

119
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 2: for everybody else. You know, it doesn't feel like we're

120
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 2: a team right now. It feels like I'm carrying the weight.

121
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,919
Speaker 2: And you know, that's obviously a perspective thing I've got.

122
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,560
Speaker 2: I've got parents, I got parents in law who may

123
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,239
Speaker 2: not be as down about an interest rate higher.

124
00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: Your dad might be happy about it because it might

125
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:00,080
Speaker 1: be making.

126
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 2: Ah, you know, and I get that. And I have

127
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 2: this conversation with older people quite a bit. Hey, why

128
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 2: do you only ever talk about it from the position

129
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,080
Speaker 2: of the borrower? Fair question, But to me, if you

130
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 2: get hitting the face in the street and you drop

131
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,479
Speaker 2: all your money, that's the story. It's not about the

132
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 2: person comes in after and picks up all the money

133
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: off the ground.

134
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: Benefit. Maybe you just explained because most people don't know this,

135
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think part of what you do

136
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 1: in your alter ego is actually shows a little bit

137
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 1: sort of what happens behind the scenes, which most people

138
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,960
Speaker 1: don't understand, but you might just open it up a

139
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 1: little bit. Michelle Bullock, for those listeners, does a press conference,

140
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,599
Speaker 1: which is a new thing under Michelle Bullock. Previous previous

141
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: reservent governors have done them down the track or some

142
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: other time, but rarely the way she does it. She

143
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,239
Speaker 1: does it basically straight away after the release two thirty

144
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: one pm on Tuesday this week, she gets up about

145
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: an hour later or something like that in front of

146
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 1: the media. You guys, Yeah, so who gets chosen to

147
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,719
Speaker 1: go to those things? And how do the questions get?

148
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,160
Speaker 1: How do you get a question? Was? Did you say

149
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 1: you only get one question?

150
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, it's as you say, this is a

151
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 2: new thing. It's not like we've been able to tinker

152
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 2: with the process for a while and give feedback. This

153
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 2: has been really happening since I think August last year,

154
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 2: so around then. As you say, prior to that, you

155
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,280
Speaker 2: just got the information, you talk about it, and now,

156
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: in an attempt to communicate better with Australia. They're using

157
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 2: journalists as a conduit, which is great. We appreciate that.

158
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: So we go along as you say the decisions at

159
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 2: two thirty. We're in there at three thirty and Michelle

160
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 2: Bullock stands up as for who gets chosen. Will you register?

161
00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 2: It's not just big media organizations. There's all kinds of small, medium,

162
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 2: and large newspapers broadcasters that are represented in there.

163
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 1: Can anyone go? I mean any media person, Yeah, so

164
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: to speak, you can.

165
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 2: There are some quite small outfits, I'd say. You know,

166
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 2: it's certainly not just the big ones. And it's the

167
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 2: most respectful and civilized press conference I've ever been a

168
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 2: part of. You see a political presses or some other ones.

169
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 2: Everyone's yelling over the top of each other. Can I

170
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 2: get a question? You shut up. I'm just going to

171
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 2: plow on with my question. None of that in there.

172
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 2: The microphone snakes around the room, everyone gets one go.

173
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 2: Why is it they just set it up like that?

174
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 2: They kind of don't want this argie bargie. Everyone's shouting

175
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 2: out type of environment, which I think is great.

176
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 1: You know, you get one go.

177
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 2: There's not the opportunity then for someone who is the

178
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 2: bigger personality to bark five questions while a quiet person

179
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 2: isn't able to ask one. Everyone gets a turn, and

180
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty good system.

181
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 1: I got to say.

182
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you do only get one question. The whole

183
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 2: thing goes through about forty five minutes, and then you,

184
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,439
Speaker 2: in theory have a better understanding of why the interest

185
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 2: rates went up.

186
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,559
Speaker 1: We're on hold or went down? Is that broadcast so

187
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,520
Speaker 1: anyone can watch it? It is? Yeah, it's broadcast so

188
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,839
Speaker 1: someone can watch it. If I could be a synic

189
00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: from a moment, Chris, do you think that this process,

190
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: which we never really existed in the past, this process

191
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 1: is about to use your words communicating the message from

192
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank governor outside of the written one and

193
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 1: a half pages that they normally issue in the media release.

194
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 1: Is it about communicating better or is it about controlling

195
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: the message? Because you know, just so, I might just

196
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 1: add to that, because in the past, we would look

197
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 1: at the one and a half page media release and

198
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: we'd all sit back and interpret it, as would analysts

199
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: and various places, and they would act on it. And

200
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,439
Speaker 1: your interpretation, as you might be writing a piece in

201
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 1: the far your interpretation might be not the way the

202
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,720
Speaker 1: Reserve Bank wanted you to interpret it. Do you think

203
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity for them to control the narrative.

204
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,680
Speaker 2: I think it's an opportunity for them to be very

205
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 2: measured in the extra information they do give. I think

206
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,319
Speaker 2: they've got to be so careful if they say. If

207
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 2: a Reserve Bank or Federal Reserve chair or governor says something,

208
00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,959
Speaker 2: it can move the market, it can wipe out billion,

209
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 2: it can add billions. By their very nature, they have

210
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,640
Speaker 2: to be careful, and you see that with them. I mean,

211
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 2: a good question to Michelle Bullock on Tuesday was Governor,

212
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 2: are we in a tightening cycle?

213
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:13,040
Speaker 1: Or are we not?

214
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 2: We had those three cuts and then we had this

215
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,199
Speaker 2: hike and the question it was David Taylor from the

216
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 2: ABC asked it was a great question, and you could

217
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,319
Speaker 2: see the cogs turning with Michelle Bullock.

218
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 1: And before she answered yeah, it was.

219
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 2: A fascinating moment because you could see that she was

220
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 2: being careful. You know, technically one hike, yeah, they're they're

221
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 2: in a tightening cycle. But you didn't say that because

222
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 2: in a way, that gives forward guidance, which she doesn't

223
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 2: want to do. So now you can see this arm

224
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 2: wrestler about how am I going to answer that? And

225
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 2: she did a great job, and we can go back

226
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,480
Speaker 2: and kind of have a look at how she handled

227
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 2: that question. But those are the moments I think where

228
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 2: you see a governor thinking on their feet. It's kind

229
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 2: of it is live, but they are being careful in

230
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 2: the message that they're getting out there.

231
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,560
Speaker 1: Do you think that our government it's a hard one

232
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,079
Speaker 1: for you, anund but do you think that she's getting

233
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,959
Speaker 1: a fair go in the media? And do you think

234
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 1: she's and what do you think of what she's because

235
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 1: to some extent, some of the media portrayed her as

236
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,080
Speaker 1: making an error. They said, you went to early in

237
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: Februy last year by reducing rates B Some are saying

238
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,960
Speaker 1: you reduced a boy too many on too many too

239
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 1: many times last year. See Others are saying you should

240
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 1: hiked harder before you started reducing. You know, we're talking

241
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 1: about the Warren Hogan's of the world because joy'st cetera.

242
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,720
Speaker 1: As a number of them people, you know, what do

243
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,599
Speaker 1: you think, as someone who's been watching this cycle for

244
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 1: a long time, she's getting a fair go.

245
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 2: I think for the most part she is. I think

246
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 2: The problem for Michelle bull look is, as I said,

247
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 2: the ammunition that she has sitting on top of that

248
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 2: interest rate mechanism is so much stronger than it ever

249
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,319
Speaker 2: used to be before. Do you mean yes, well, I

250
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: mean just you know, hiking interest rates means so much

251
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,720
Speaker 2: more to a person than it did.

252
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 1: The impact is far great impact.

253
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,719
Speaker 2: I mean, the potency of that tool is huge now.

254
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I kind of I think about it. When

255
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,680
Speaker 2: I started covering this sort of stuff, it was a

256
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 2: pretty boring story, the RBA story you'd struggle to get

257
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 2: people to.

258
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 1: Do right now. It definitely wasn't on the Today's Show in.

259
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 2: The it didn't lead the news like it does now.

260
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 2: That was probably twenty ten where I was first out

261
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 2: there trying to write about it and talk about it.

262
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 2: And the average new mortgage at the time was sub

263
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty thousand nationally now at six ninety four,

264
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 2: so seven hundred thousand with a bit of change applied.

265
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,520
Speaker 2: I mean that now, by its very nature, Michelle Bullock

266
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,680
Speaker 2: wasn't running the show back then. She's running it now,

267
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,079
Speaker 2: and the tool is so much bigger than it ever

268
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 2: has been before, so people are paying so much more

269
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 2: attention as well as she's getting a fair go I mean,

270
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,800
Speaker 2: the criticism is right there. Of course. I happen to

271
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 2: think she's doing a tremendous job of talking about this

272
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 2: thing in a pretty level headed way. She's very open

273
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 2: about what we are.

274
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,559
Speaker 1: Here to do, what she's head to do. Yeah.

275
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, as the head of the board, you know, we're

276
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 2: here to do inflation, make sure that prices growing sustainably,

277
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 2: and make sure that achieved full employment. You know, we're

278
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 2: not setting all tax settings, we're not doing everything.

279
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 1: So I think she's doing a good job of that.

280
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 1: With what you got to work with. What what would

281
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 1: you say to those people who are sort of your

282
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,680
Speaker 1: own organizations. Publication in the a FR put a put

283
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,959
Speaker 1: a firm finger on Jim Chalmers and or the government

284
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 1: about fiscal policy and spending. I know you're not in

285
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 1: the a FR, but I'm still it's part of the

286
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: nine group. There was a firm figure placed on the government.

287
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,079
Speaker 1: You know, you guys are spending too much. Michelle Bullock

288
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,360
Speaker 1: did not talk about that. She talked about private the

289
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 1: private aggregate, private agurgate demand, which by the way, takes

290
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 1: money out of the system and the system has been

291
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 1: flooded with money, and part of the flooding of the

292
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: money is from government. So that was a very clever maneuver.

293
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: Outside of what Michelle Buller's got to say, what do

294
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,719
Speaker 1: you think, as someone who's been coming this stuff for

295
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 1: a long time, where do you think the government sits

296
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,679
Speaker 1: in relation all this? Relative to the fact that we've

297
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: now got a rate rises on the horizon and we've

298
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: just had one. Do you think that the government's spending

299
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,559
Speaker 1: is something that is creating or is a big part

300
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 1: of the creating of this inflation number.

301
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 2: Look, I think it has to be considered to be

302
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 2: a part of the role. I mean, I'm sort of

303
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 2: lucky in that I cover the finance. I talk about

304
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 2: what's happening today and yesterday. I don't necessarily have to

305
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 2: make predictions. I get to talk to people like you

306
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 2: and economists and sort of take it all and think

307
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 2: about it. A couple of the economists that I have

308
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 2: a lot of respect for have been saying that, and

309
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 2: so you kind of listen to it and you think

310
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 2: about administered prices, which Shane Oliver has been talking about

311
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 2: a bit, total government spending. I mean, these numbers are big,

312
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 2: particularly as a percentage of GDP.

313
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, then.

314
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 2: Looking historically, you know, whether you apply context that's historical

315
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 2: or global. I mean, these are significant. So look, I

316
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 2: do think that's definitely part of it. And I think

317
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 2: the difference, of course, is that politically, you know, they've

318
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 2: got to work to an election cycle, whereas a Reserve

319
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 2: bank doesn't. So I think it suits them to when

320
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 2: the news is bad to say, right, the Reserve Bank's

321
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 2: doing its own thing.

322
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: We have no contry. They're independent. They're independent, which is

323
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: what by the way, it just happened. That's what the

324
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: Treasure said the Independent Reserve Bank Board, which by the way,

325
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: the government appointed but recently appointed only a year ago.

326
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: But like they have decided this, whereas I mean, and

327
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: we all understand the you know, the to and fro

328
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: in relation of politics, and I guess to some extent

329
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: norvous are surprised. I mean, I don't think there'd be

330
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,240
Speaker 1: too many people consumers out there who would be surprised

331
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 1: that the government goes missing when things aren't looking good

332
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 1: and the government sort of stands on the dice when

333
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 1: things are looking good. I don't really know, And to

334
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 1: be honest with you, from my point of view, Chris

335
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: la I'd probably be the same. And there's an old

336
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 1: saying in media, give oxygen to good news and smither

337
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: bad news, and that's everybody does it. Jim Chum was

338
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: going to get up and say, look, I'm sorry everybody,

339
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: we spent too much in the last budget. I guess

340
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 1: it'll be a lot will come out of the next

341
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 1: budget coming up. Institutions therefore, because therefore therefore people tend

342
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: not to trust. I really do believe, and I like

343
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 1: your view on this. There is particularly your age group,

344
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 1: but there was a growing number of people who once

345
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 1: upon a time would you say, look it's the government,

346
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 1: it's fine, whatever, But today who do not trust institutions

347
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,160
Speaker 1: and or do not trust governments. Trust is being eroded.

348
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 1: And just something said, probably for good reason, you know,

349
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 1: you go through the COVID program. Whether that was right

350
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 1: or wrong doesn't matter. People that felt like you took

351
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 1: something away from me, something was changed in my life.

352
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 1: Was that something that motivated you to set up your

353
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 1: alter ego, your other personality?

354
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 2: Kind of I'm fascinated by the trust dynamic as well.

355
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 2: In Australia, there's a good set of data that comes

356
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 2: out from Roy Morgan called the Trust Index. Oh wow,

357
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 2: the most trusted brands least trusted brands. And one of

358
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,359
Speaker 2: the ones that I found completely fascinating was that at

359
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty three, Coles and Woolworth were

360
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 2: I think either two and three or three and two

361
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,919
Speaker 2: most trusted brands in Australia. Fast forward twelve months and

362
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 2: they'd fallen two hundred places. Wow, you know, two hundred

363
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 2: and thirty I think. And I spoke to Roy Morgan

364
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 2: about this and they just said, you never see that.

365
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 1: You never see that.

366
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,440
Speaker 2: Kind of off a cliff for a company that big.

367
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it does happen occasionally. You know, there's thirty places,

368
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,160
Speaker 2: forty places Quantus when it got done for the ghost flights,

369
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 2: big drop there when Optis got done for the.

370
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: Breach issue whatever it was. Yah.

371
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this does happen. But people are very

372
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 2: alert to how much they trust an institution, what sort

373
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: of things set them off about it, what smells bad

374
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 2: to them, And the fact that the messaging is always

375
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 2: so positive I think has created a problem. I think

376
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 2: the fact that we as a society, as an industry

377
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 2: in marketing has gotten so good has now created a

378
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 2: bit of a problem for them because it feels like

379
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 2: there's never any other side to the pendulum. It never

380
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 2: swings back. And where do I say, hey, I hated that.

381
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 2: You know, that triple lo outage for office was truly terrible.

382
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 2: Where do I go to talk about that? And so yeah,

383
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 2: I thought, well, okay, I can talk about the issue.

384
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 2: I'm a journalist, that's my job. I can try it

385
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 2: in a few different ways. And all of a sudden,

386
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 2: you can try it in this way over here, and hey,

387
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 2: yeah people are engaging with that.

388
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: I'll keep doing it. So what are some of the

389
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,360
Speaker 1: things that have really like jumped off the WAF with.

390
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 2: I was talking about this before. Actually, the one that

391
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 2: the first one that really went completely tropo for me

392
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 2: was when I was talking about competition.

393
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: I was talking, you know, we've only.

394
00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 2: Got two major airlines, four banks, very good sotelcs blah

395
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 2: blah blah, Yeah basically and just sort of saying that,

396
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: not really adding too much commentary. But that alone, that

397
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 2: video got sixty five thousand followers, well like within a week,

398
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,639
Speaker 2: and a lot of them were overseas and they and

399
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 2: the comments.

400
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: Were you mean Australians overseas or a.

401
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 2: Lot of them were people living, you know, citizens of

402
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 2: other countries.

403
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: Right.

404
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,439
Speaker 2: The number of comments in there from people who are

405
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 2: saying it's the same in Canada, or it's the same

406
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 2: here in the UK, you know, keep talking about that

407
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 2: from all over the world was really interesting to me

408
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 2: because here I am Australian journalists covering what I thought

409
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 2: we was Australian issues and I'm increasingly being told that

410
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 2: these are global you just happen to be talking about

411
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: them in your chair in Australia.

412
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that the globally as well as in Australia,

413
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 1: that we are the way businesses going, particularly with data

414
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: and smart technologies and I hate using the terminology but

415
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, that this chasm between the top two or

416
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: three and everybody else is going to grow. Is that

417
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 1: something you think? Do you think that this is inevitable?

418
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're already seeing that, aren't we. I mean,

419
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 2: look at the sort of the I mean it depends

420
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 2: how you want to look at it. If you look

421
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 2: at the market valuations, the market capitalizations of some of

422
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 2: those big AI companies on wall streets, absolutely mind bending.

423
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

424
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 2: I think in Australia that sort of stuff has been

425
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: going on with the big banks for the last few years.

426
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: I mean I looked it up the other day. Market

427
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 2: cap as I speak to you, for Commonwealth Bank is

428
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 2: somewhere around the two sixty two seventy billion dollar mark.

429
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: I mean that means that it is bigger than Telstra, Cole's,

430
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 2: Wilworth's Origin, Harvey Norman and JB. High Fly, handful of

431
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 2: others combined altogether. And that's happened relatively quickly, you know,

432
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: the valuations, And of course CBO is not on its own,

433
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: it's one of the big four, and Macquarie is now

434
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 2: increasingly big too. The valuations that we have of those

435
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: companies is massive. So I just I don't know. I

436
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 2: just feel like we don't get to talk about it

437
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: all that much. And I'm always interested. Such a funny

438
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,719
Speaker 2: feeling marked to be on the other side of these

439
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 2: questions from you, because I often ask you about this

440
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: sort of stuff.

441
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you.

442
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 2: Think about the size of the big banks now? I mean,

443
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 2: you know, you are somebody who knows better than anyone

444
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: in the country about how many lenders we have in Australia.

445
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: Not enough, we have thirty lenders, but ninety two percent

446
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: of all lending gets done by four Yeah, and the

447
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 1: amount of loans you said earlier, but the size of

448
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: them all, which market is massive, which is why no

449
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: one from overseas has ever been able to come and

450
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 1: crack this market because before have a stranglehold on the

451
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: whole system, in every part, not just lending, every part

452
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: of the banking system. And we've seen a whole lot

453
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: of international lenders come here and try and have a crack.

454
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: Even General Electric, who was the biggest finance company in

455
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: the world, Yeah, came here and didn't do too well.

456
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: And because the banking systems have got a complete claw

457
00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: hold on everybody. But at the same time, Chris, they

458
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: are also some of the most profitable banks and some

459
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: of the safest, probably the safest banks of the world

460
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: outside of Rabobank, and they definitely are some of the

461
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: They are the four by banks, are the highest rated

462
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: independently rated banks in the world and our market cap

463
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: they are the most profitable banks in the world relative

464
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: to the market capitalization. Do you think they're the best run?

465
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I would say so. Yeah, I think

466
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: as retail banks, yes, they probably are. They're very well run.

467
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: And Australians too. By the way, are very sophisticated as

468
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: consumers of banking, so that sort of forces the banks

469
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: to be better at what they do too. Like you

470
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: go in the US, there's like eleven thousand banks, and

471
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: you know, there's a kinetic women's bank that exists just

472
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: in kineticut one branch. You know, they've got banks everywhere,

473
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: So they're not they don't have the technology, they don't

474
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: have the scale to employ the technology, they don't have

475
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: the products, that don't have scar to justify the products,

476
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So they are much less sophisticated.

477
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: They're much smaller. And by the way, there's bank failures

478
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: there all the time. So and our regulator here, I

479
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: mean is pretty boring. But like our regulator here, Opera

480
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: is a bloody good regulator relatively speaking, because it doesn't

481
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: have that many people to regulate banks to regulate. But

482
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: our banks that are so well run, so it regulates

483
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: them quite well. I mean, it's to some extent they're

484
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: probably overregulator, but at the same time it keeps our

485
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: financial system really stable in Australia as a result of

486
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, like our trouble a rating here

487
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the fact that our

488
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: banks are very stable. It's so strong.

489
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: It's interesting to hear you say that about APRA, because

490
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I often hear

491
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: is criticism of our regulators, whether it's ageable, c ACID

492
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: or oper and I actually don't have that much time

493
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 2: for that conversation. I think they do a very good job.

494
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 2: I think they're pretty sharp. I think they hand over

495
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: very well researched cases to the federal court when they

496
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 2: need to, and I think they've claimed some pretty big

497
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: scalps in the last few years.

498
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: Has and our appro to what's interesting. During the GFC,

499
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: there was a couple of banks who got absorbed into

500
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: the system. You know, Sir George got taken over by Westpac.

501
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: Bank west got taken over by CBA. There's quite a

502
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: number of mergers, and more recently we had all those neobanks.

503
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: Some of those near banks had a lot of trouble

504
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: raising enough capital to continue to grow because they couldn't

505
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: attract enough deposits to be able to end. You haven't

506
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: heard of any failures. They've all been absorbed into the

507
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: banking system. So the regulator is very good at encouraging

508
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: the bigger guys to make sure that there is no

509
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: failures in our system. We haven't had any failures in

510
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: our system, do you think bank bank? Yeah, but for

511
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: the regulator and those banking licenses don't exist anymore. But

512
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: those systems have been absorbed up the line, either into CBA, Westpac, Ains,

513
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: nab Et cetera, Macquarie. So the big five have been

514
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 1: very compliant and I would say very accommodating to the regulator.

515
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: But at the same time the regulators looking out for

516
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: them too. And it's all about financial stability, and we

517
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: enjoy in this country an extraordinarily financial stable financial system.

518
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: I mean, sure, we've got interest rates going around the

519
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: joint we can get you know, we can be forgiven

520
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: for being feeling like we've got brain damage because this

521
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: time last year we had an interest rate reduction, getting

522
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: told that inflation was under control, and a few months

523
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: later we got another rate reduction, another rate reduction, and

524
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: then we were being told that the current industrate settings

525
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: by the Reserve Bank was restrictive. And that question that

526
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: was asked by the ABC in the press after the

527
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: RBA meeting this week was a good one because we

528
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: all thought we were in a restrictive environment and now

529
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: we probably now we're probably in some other environments. Last

530
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: week's one being stimulatory because you have to say to yourself, well,

531
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: if the if inflation has gone up and private demand

532
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: aggrigate demand is increasing, we must be stimulating the So

533
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: you can be forgiven for that. But outside of that stuff,

534
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: our banking system, our financial system is very stable. It's

535
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: really good. So whilst I compete with the banks in

536
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: some respects, whilst I also deal with the banks and

537
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: in some respects, and whilst I don't like olivegoblies generally speaking,

538
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: you know where a few control many are just in

539
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: a principal sense I do it. I also celebrate the

540
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: fact that as a result of those things we are

541
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: very stable. Compared to the rest of the world, we're

542
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: in good shape. But if we're looking at institutions, and

543
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: you told me about that, one particular example of what

544
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: has worked really well with that is saying talking about

545
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: how Australian probably the rest of the world is the

546
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: same case is pretty much in every industry it's two

547
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: or three control consolidation for everybody else. Yep, consolidation has

548
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: happened over time what else is kicked off really hard

549
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: for you know, I talk it's funny.

550
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: This is going to sound completely different, and arguably dog

551
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: leagues compsation in a way that we may not want good.

552
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: But no, I'm happy with dog LEAs.

553
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: We'll do it anyway. I do basically and have done

554
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: two types of videos. How you have a look at

555
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: this weird thing that's going on in the economy. I

556
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 2: reckon it's worth talking about. And the other type is

557
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: historical business stories but you didn't know that this is

558
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: how you know post its were created, or how they

559
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: came up with the pringle, or you know. And I

560
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: think they have done really well. People like a kind

561
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: of a funny story about how Blockbuster came a cropper

562
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,239
Speaker 2: or how you know, do you remember when Yahoo had

563
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 2: the chance to buy Google for a million bucks and

564
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: said no? Or the time that not that long ago,

565
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: Samsung's batteries kept blowing up. I think they're funny. I

566
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: can't stop reading about them. I love those books, and

567
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: I think they kind of lend themselves to occasionally reminding

568
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: people that executives can be kind of vulnerable.

569
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: That's a nice way of putting it.

570
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people at home kind of like looking

571
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: at these guys as you know, oh.

572
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: Totally, so you naturally are you naturally muck around type

573
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: of guy? Naturally funny guy. I muck around.

574
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: I mean I muck around my kids all the time

575
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: at home. I mean it's hard because the job is

576
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: so serious. You tie on microphone in hand, tell us,

577
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: tell me the story.

578
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: But I know, muck around because because I have to

579
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: be honest with Like your dad, Alan is, I mean,

580
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: compared to him, you're so differently. I mean I used

581
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: to watch I used to watch ABC News all the time,

582
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: and for those people don't know, Alan would always used

583
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: to be I don't know, he stillies, but it was

584
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: always on at the end of the news and he'd

585
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: have a little finance thing and he say, that's finance

586
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: or something like that. Right at the end of it.

587
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: He goat for a minute or two, and he used

588
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: to explain things brilliantly. But he would be standing there

589
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: in front of the camera and his hands used to

590
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: always be down by his side. It's true, Am I true?

591
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: Am I right? I wish you to do it. His

592
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: hands were sort of like that, like he looked really awkward,

593
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: really awkward, and a.

594
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Lot of that comes down to framing. I don't think

595
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: that's his fault.

596
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, he's so. But he's the opposite to funny.

597
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: But it could be that he's a really funny bugger.

598
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 2: He loves to he I think he's very funny. He

599
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: loves to knock the audience off balance. Like he'll talk

600
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: about the you know, the Nasdak, the all Lords commodity prices,

601
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he'll put up a

602
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: chart showing the price a kiwi for it.

603
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone where that come from. It's out there.

604
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: And he loves it. That's why he's been doing it

605
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: for so long. I think he really liked it. And

606
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 2: I've talked to him about this a lot of times.

607
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: And obviously I grew up watching him. I mean, the

608
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: way I present is modeled on the way he presents.

609
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: But he's told me more times than I can count

610
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: that he has always had the opinion. And he's been

611
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: a finance journal since the beginning as well. He was

612
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: seventeen when he started covering Wow, and he's still doing

613
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: it in his seventies.

614
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: His view is, I understand that.

615
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: Not everybody's up for a big chat on finance every

616
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: night on the news. I want to thank you for

617
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: tuning in and paying attention to me, and I want

618
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: to thank you by giving you something to go.

619
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, Because, by the way, that is true. There

620
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: is a heart a moment there. That's something I didn't

621
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: know about you, and that's him.

622
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: It's him winking in saying thanks, and I think that's

623
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: a great thing to do.

624
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: Well, he'll pull out some sort of graph and I think,

625
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: how long did it take to put that thing together?

626
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: But it's about some weird type of thing, and there's

627
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: something scent what you're doing similar but on a modern platform. Well,

628
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: that's very nice of you to say. I mean, I

629
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: kind of it.

630
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: Is talked a dub about these videos a lot of

631
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: times to get his thoughts obviously, you know, he's a

632
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: mentor of mine in addition to being my dad, and

633
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: he's been so supportive. You know, he's appeared in a

634
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: bunch of them.

635
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: Has he. I haven't seen those ones. I'll you, I

636
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: got to see those. Yeah, he likes it.

637
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: We both have a lot of fun when we do

638
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: that because we talk about economics all the time. I mean,

639
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: that's a great thing about being in the same industry

640
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: as a parent, I'm sure there's a lot of people

641
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: listening who might be in the same sort of industry.

642
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: And you know, you're halftime at the foot, you're talking

643
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: about your siblings or the house at home or whatever.

644
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: All of a sudden it flows into work chat the

645
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: economy that flows back out.

646
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's great.

647
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: And so when we sit down to do something like

648
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: a video, he's you know, we're on the same page automatically.

649
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: It's really nice. Was it was it a discussion at

650
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: family barbecues or at home at night? I presume it's

651
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: not live. I don't know when he used to record

652
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: his stuff. Would he be at home for dinner and

653
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: and you'd all be sitting around and say, hey, Dad,

654
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: we sort of intelligent tonight, or we're going to watch

655
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: you on the ABC tonight, And did you did you

656
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: guys discuss what he's going to talk about? Yeah, yep.

657
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: We always turned it down. You know, watch watch dad.

658
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: You know we watched.

659
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: We'd kind of sit there and we watch it. Was

660
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: definitely know ABC was always on when I was a kid,

661
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: and so me going to Channel nine for my family,

662
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: it was a bit oh okay, let's watch some Channel nine.

663
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: Now.

664
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, So I obviously I am a huge fan

665
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: of Peter Hitchener, but it's not the same. He wasn't

666
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: on in our household all the time. But now, you know,

667
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: my mum gets to say, well, Dad's on it at

668
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: seven and Chris is on at six, so I can

669
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 2: watch both. So it's kind of nice. But but yeah, no, definitely,

670
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: we always we always talked a little bit about it

671
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: at the end of what he said, and if I

672
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: had a question, I had this incredible resource to ask him,

673
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: can you tell me more about that?

674
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: He's a great economist, Like he really is a great

675
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: economics as particularly as an economic journalist. His detail is

676
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: very good. But he does also do business interviews. Yes,

677
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: he interviewed me a couple of times, like about business,

678
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: about my business, and which is sort of not dissimilar

679
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: to what you do as well.

680
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think I can see why he did. I mean,

681
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: he loves those perspectives. You know, he wants to know

682
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: what it's like on the ground, as a good journalist

683
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: always should what is going on in that space. You

684
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: can tell me better than anybody else because you know,

685
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: and I think that's coming back to the fact that

686
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: I do these two types of videos. I mean, I

687
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: think it's important for both of us, because we have

688
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: to be critical of business, to also make sure that

689
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: everybody knows that we are pro business.

690
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: We like him, we think they're well. You are well not.

691
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: I can't say about every journalist, but definitely you are yes.

692
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: And I don't want that to get lost. I think

693
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: is because I do. I do criticize industries, and I

694
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: think by doing ones where you talk about an historical

695
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: business story, hopefully you can see some affection come through.

696
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: But I do like this.

697
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: I think that there's nothing wrong with the pursuit of profit.

698
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: I think there's absolutely no issue in starting and growing

699
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: a business, and I can see why incentives lead you

700
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: to consolidate. All this kind of stuff makes sense to me.

701
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that you need to get a free pass.

702
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: But it also doesn't mean that I hate anybody really

703
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: out there.

704
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: When you see someone like Joe Aston, you probably made

705
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: the Joe Joe when he went hard on quantas. There's

706
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: no secret Joe's made a career out of it. He's

707
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: killed it. What do you what does a journals like

708
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: you think about that? You think it's brave, courageous or

709
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: do you think it's smart or do you think it's

710
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: should be done? What do you think?

711
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm first of all, I'm very glad that we

712
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: live in a country where we don't have censorship and

713
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: we can have a really open media that everybody's kind

714
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: of able to do whatever they want, and there's an

715
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: audience for what Joe's doing.

716
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: That's right.

717
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what you find out very quickly

718
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 2: is whether or not people are listening to you and

719
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: paying attention to you, and in a way, the audience

720
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 2: is in charge, and so you kind of go, all right,

721
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 2: We've got this beautiful, big, increasingly fractured and multifaceted media

722
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 2: space that's kind of good for audiences. They can listen

723
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: to all kinds of stuff. And Joe, you know, he's

724
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: not just griping. He does a lot of research, a lot,

725
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: you know, And that's the thing. Rigor is at the

726
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: base of good journalism and actually doing the work. And

727
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: so I think, you know, there's not a whole lot

728
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: of problem with that.

729
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: He likes to uncover the pure truth, maybe even go

730
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: against the narrative, like what everybody thinks. He's very good

731
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: at that. That's a real pure journalism. So do you

732
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: ever think to yourself, I want to be taken as

733
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: a serious journalist, which you are, will be known as

734
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: a serious journalist journalist like Joe is because Joe never

735
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: really sort of takes a pisce what does the skitties.

736
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: It's either a one hour presentation like on his podcasts,

737
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: or it's a big article like deep So Joe's known

738
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: for one thing. You're known for serious six pm news.

739
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: But at the same time you're now becoming I think

740
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: it's becoming more well known for your skits. Let's cat

741
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: your skits. Then I'm not trying to do a disservice

742
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: by saying the skits they are skits, but talking about

743
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: serious important topics. Do you ever give this ech that

744
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: you want to be known to be one or the other.

745
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think I benefit

746
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: from the fact that I can do both simultaneously, and

747
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: I can I can present the news. I can do

748
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: the RBA story and talk about it, ask a questions,

749
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: shell bull looking my capacity as a journalist, and then

750
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: I can also go back and think about it and

751
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: present it as a skit, something comedic. But the way

752
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: I think about it is that journalism isn't one thing

753
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: today today and really ever, I mean, hard news has

754
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: always sat alongside journalistic opinion, journalistic analysis columns. You know,

755
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: we give that right to certain members of the media

756
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: and say you can write a weekly column and I'll

757
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: read it, read your thoughts, see what you've got to

758
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: say on this, because you take it all in and

759
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: you know, you tell me the news, but now I

760
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: want to hear what you reckon. I think of these

761
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: these videos, these skits is kind of like a column

762
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: in a way.

763
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just me.

764
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: It's me talking about what I think about it, the

765
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: way I'm processing the information. It's not hard news, but

766
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: I like to think of it as sort of it's.

767
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: In that sphere. It's adjacent. I mean, it's kind of

768
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort.

769
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: Of in that ballpark somewhere in a new world. It's

770
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: kind of in a way, it grew out of frustration.

771
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: I do interviews, as you know, and sometimes, you know,

772
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: you get the sense that CEOs or CFOs, just like politicians,

773
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: are getting so polished in what they can and can't say,

774
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: that you end up getting a spiel that you didn't

775
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: really are for and so you go home and you go,

776
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: what do I reckon they really wanted to say?

777
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: And then you do it yourself. You become them because

778
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: because I think that's that's very interesting, because I think

779
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: that's where we're at now is precisely what you just said.

780
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: In terms of mainstream news, you know, TV, radio, newspapers,

781
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: that mainstream stuff. The spokesperson for an industry or an

782
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: institution or organization have become so well honed on controlling

783
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: the narrative, including politicians, and they have a bevy of

784
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: people sit below them and telling them what to say

785
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: and how to say it. And even the Reserve Bank

786
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: governor she gets advised by media advisors before she gets

787
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: up and she's probably even doing you know, Q and

788
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: A and stuff like that. Make sure that she's tested

789
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: out where she's where she's going to go, because we

790
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: don't want her misleading the market, or we're not misleading

791
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: the market, but by saying something into the marketplace that

792
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: could actually as a problem or create an outcome. So

793
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. And previous and of course

794
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: the RBA has been bitten hard from the previous governor

795
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: who made that statement about industry not going to go

796
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: up for another year or so, you know, they would

797
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: have learned their lesson hard way there. So that makes

798
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: sense that people are much more polished. But as a

799
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: result or they may be much more polished. It doesn't

800
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: matter how hard you press as a good journalist in

801
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: a serious conversation, you're not going to get out of

802
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: them what the audience, what we really we want to

803
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: really hear you can. So I totally agree, we're just

804
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: not going to get it. It doesn't matter whether it's

805
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump, the President the United States, or

806
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: Macron or you know whoever it is our prime minister

807
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: as well, We're just not going to get the information

808
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: we really need. And do you think therefore mainstream media

809
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: is to some extent has been a bit hobbled by

810
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: this process of people becoming really sophisticated into a delivering

811
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: their message.

812
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so much media training has gone into it. I

813
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: totally I agree. I think the messaging has become so

814
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: slick it's just hard to break in. And I think

815
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 2: people at home kind of see it and they go, okay, fine,

816
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: fair enough. The CEO of whatever company has said that thing,

817
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: And actually I think it's one of the things that

818
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: you do so well, when you go like you're a CEO,

819
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: you've run businesses for years, when you go on Today's

820
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: show or anything else, you're just you're speaking like a

821
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: human being. It's it's actually really it's actually pretty rare

822
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: mark like you know, as you just said, but like

823
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: you see all these people say we have had a

824
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: positive year, Yes, we have had and instead, you know,

825
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: you might say, yeah, it's been a crack up, it's

826
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: been really good, and people go, hah, what a normal guy.

827
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I understand what he's talking about.

828
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think there's I wonder, you know,

829
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's a pendulum to be had here.

830
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: It swings really hard into the Polish world, and then

831
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: a couple of people break through and speak clearly and

832
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: in a way that is relating to people at home,

833
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 2: and then the pendulum maybe starts to swing back and

834
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: there's sort of a less need to be so polished

835
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: and precise, and that, you know, maybe it's not the

836
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: end of the world. Like obviously, as you say, if

837
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: you're a central banker, you've got to be careful. But

838
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: if you're the head of an organization, I mean, you know,

839
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: can you call it how it is in your own

840
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: mind to are people going to, you know, hate you terribly?

841
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: Is the share price going to collapse?

842
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. Someone's going to have to have a crack.

843
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: Institutions who do an analysis on you might think that

844
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: you're being in appropriate, but I think the common person

845
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: likes it, and I think that's where that's what you've

846
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: sort of linked yourself into. Because social media, hopefully it

847
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: doesn't become really polished like mainstream media has. The more

848
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: people listening to social media or watch social media, and

849
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: they do it in these one or two minute bytes,

850
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: and we do it when we want. We don't want

851
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: to buy appointment. I mean, I think most of us.

852
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: I love the six pm news and as part of

853
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: my life I grew up whether blah blah blah, God

854
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: all that. But these days I'm really home at six

855
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: pm anyway, But I get all my media through social media,

856
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: everything everything. There's nothing on the news at night that

857
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: they're going to very rare anyway, that in terms of

858
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: main stories, which is why they have some silly little

859
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: stories at the end of these days. But the main

860
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: stories that I haven't already heard about probably nine o'clock

861
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: in the morning, and probably read five different versions of

862
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: And as a result of that, mainstream media has become

863
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: the greatest respect to you at the six pm News

864
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: A little bit have already been already heard all that,

865
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: and I might have actually seen you on social media

866
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: before I saw you in the six pm News.

867
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a bit of that, look, I think, you know.

868
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 2: And I will obviously defend the media organizations.

869
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: That I work for.

870
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: I think that there's a place for them, Yeah, of course,

871
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: and they are filled with people who are doing really

872
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: good work. And I think the important part is that

873
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: it's locally, professionally reported, like these are the people who

874
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: go and knock on the door of the local member

875
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: in New South Wales or in Victoria or in Wa.

876
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: So much of social media is global in its reaching,

877
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: global in its attempt. What you see from the major

878
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: media organizations here is that they are thinking here, they

879
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: want to talk to these people in this state. And

880
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: I think that that's important and I think we can't

881
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: shouldn't overlook that. It's one of things A lot about

882
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 2: regional news.

883
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, if you go up to Lismore or Byron

884
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: or that sort of you can turn on Chenel nine

885
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: and you find out what's going on actually in the area,

886
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: in the region, and they give you a little bit

887
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: of city maybe, but most of it's about what's going

888
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 1: on in the region, the same in Queensland. That's great,

889
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: but your social media environment is that Chris Cole, is

890
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: you own that yourself? Is that your own thing and

891
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: and your employee's okay with you to do that sort

892
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: of thing? Do you have to get it provenly? It

893
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: probably helps them. It's probably good for them that you'll

894
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: spend the time and effort money on doing this because

895
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: it actually elevates your profile and people turn into the news. Yeah.

896
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: Look, I think there's a kind of a there's obviously

897
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: an awareness of it. There's a consciousness there. There is

898
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: a sort of an implied and a sort of explicit

899
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: but unnecessary to say, you know, encouragement not to be

900
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: a complete idiot, not to defame anyone, not to break the.

901
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: Rules in any well you understand how that works anyway.

902
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're just you know, it's important I think

903
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: to apply those standards in whatever you do. But for

904
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: the most part, support and a sort of a willingness

905
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: to see how those experiments go, you know.

906
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, to some present it is. I mean if

907
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: I was not, I would be encouraging that for you

908
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: to do that on your own time, your own time,

909
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: But also I would be interested to see how it's going,

910
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: because I probably if I was running nine or involved nine,

911
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have I would take the view that we

912
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 1: don't have the bandwidth to do that sort of stuff anyway.

913
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: But if you are successful at it, and maybe that's

914
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: something we should we as an organization. If I was

915
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: at night, we should actually start and encourage others to

916
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: do it, start to do the same sort of thing,

917
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: because over time, I would imagine mainstream and social mediums

918
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: they're going to have to combine over time, because like,

919
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: if you're a media company, you want all the media's, yeah,

920
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: you want all the medias. I think.

921
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I hear a lot from

922
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: people is mainstream media versus new media. And I mean

923
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: the new media organizations have been around for twenty plus

924
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: years now in Australia. I mean, what's mainstream anymore? I mean,

925
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: if we're talking about the mainstream eyeball, if we're talking

926
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 2: about you know, how much time we're spending with things,

927
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: I mean, what is mainstream pic legacy media people call

928
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: new media. I mean, you are right that that mix

929
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: is happening. It's a big mixing pot of content. Now,

930
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 2: I feel very strongly about journalistic standards.

931
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: You know, you may not see that's important. That by

932
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: the way, that's very important. Yeah, I mean you may not.

933
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: People might be listening to this and go, I see

934
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 2: this guy on social media, one journalist extent, he's talking

935
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: to himself, and that's fair.

936
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: But but you're not lying, you're not defaming. Yeah, you're

937
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: not being erratic.

938
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: No, But and it comes from like I've obviously read

939
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: the information that I'm passing on. Like if I say

940
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: a number, it's a real number. I'm not pulling it

941
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: out of my backside or anything like that. So it's becoming,

942
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: I suppose a little bit mistier to sort of see

943
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: in this big mix mixing pot of content, what's real,

944
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: what's been generated, who this person is, who they work for,

945
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: where the money is coming from, all these sorts of things.

946
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 2: You know, I think we are kind of where it's

947
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: all happening in real time. We're figuring this out live.

948
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: You know, where do you think, of course, I mean,

949
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: where do you think you're what you're doing in terms

950
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: of social media is going to end up. Is there

951
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: anything that you see that's exciting about it? Like your

952
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: numbers increasing? Are you getting great feedback, fantastic engagement? Is

953
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: it being shared overseas people sort of saying to you, mate,

954
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: you're really touched on something very important there that we

955
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: don't get from watching the news at night or something

956
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: along with because the news that at nights just little packages.

957
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: That that's the model, same as radios, little packages adds,

958
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: little packages ads. That's that's the business model that which

959
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: is fine? What are you seeing? What do you what

960
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: do you feel for the future. I am excited.

961
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm excited about the prospect of being able to be

962
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: different things for different parts of the audience. You know,

963
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 2: if you want to see me on the news, you're

964
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: going to see me covering a story in my capacity

965
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: as a journalist in that way, in that I'm going

966
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: to get the experts, You're going to hear from them.

967
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 2: You're going to be able to see the data. I'll

968
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: tell you where the datas come from and all this

969
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: sort of stuff.

970
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 1: And run by various industry standards, lealed internally, responsibly done.

971
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: Then that's right.

972
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: If you want to see me on social media have

973
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 2: a bit of a laugh about the situation, a serious situation.

974
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 2: Then I'm I'm that's what I really like doing too,

975
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be like think about

976
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: the finance and the economy over the last few years.

977
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: Is that it has been a heavy duty. Oh my god.

978
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's just like I get up and I

979
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 2: do this story. I mean, I walked into I live

980
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: in Melbourne. I go into the Melbourne news room, I

981
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: come into the Sydney you want to do the RBA stories,

982
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: into kind of other stories here and there. It was

983
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: a while there where I was coming in and they

984
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 2: got other grim reapers here because all the bad news. Bear,

985
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,959
Speaker 2: I've got all of the I got. You know, rates

986
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: are going up, you know, the unemployment rates not doing.

987
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: It's supposed she's out of control. Cost of them has

988
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: got mental that's.

989
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 2: Right, you know, all the property market, particularly around COVID,

990
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff like and so I think

991
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: it's certainly been my experience, and I think I'm not

992
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: alone in this. You know, you've got to laugh about

993
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 2: it sometimes, you know, it's it's so bad all the time,

994
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: you just kind of have to go right we're in

995
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: two point four trillion dollars worth of mortgage?

996
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: Did everybody?

997
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: Should we have a gag about it? Should we just

998
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 2: sort of like try to try to have a bit

999
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: of a laugh here, So.

1000
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: Just some people know, is it Chris, it's Chris Colin

1001
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: obviously khl e R. It's Chris Colin News, Chris Colin News.

1002
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: That's your scampaige and it's also your YouTube channel as well.

1003
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: And you have written a book that says how they

1004
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: get you Sneaky every Day Economics and Smart Ways to

1005
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: Hold onto Your Money by Chris Cohler and the Batuta Boys,

1006
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: which I love, said brutally, hon It's perfectly humorous, and

1007
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: it's sort of interesting that the Bertuita put a little

1008
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: review there kind of them. Yeah, and Alan Fel's previously

1009
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: the ah trible c head commissioner in Sighthling and highly

1010
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: music good man Alane. I like Alan Fills. Yeah, he's

1011
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: one of the good guys. Yeah, he really is one

1012
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: of the good guys. He's incredibly switched on. What's his

1013
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: book about, mate, Look for those.

1014
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: People who like the videos and sort of go okay,

1015
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: that one was about supermarkets. I like that that one

1016
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: was about insurance. That was interesting that one was about banking.

1017
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: It dawned on me that these videos are just to

1018
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: adore into a much bigger room where there's a lot

1019
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: more going on, and so I wrote the book. Each

1020
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 2: chapter covers a different thing, basically, thank you, whether it's superannuation,

1021
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 2: whether it's mortgages, auctions, Black Friday, micro transactions and gaming.

1022
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: I mean there's a gambling different chapters between four different chapters.

1023
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: Well, a chapter one of these is about is called subscriptions.

1024
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you're basically warning us about being oversubscribed.

1025
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: Well, I just I'm commenting on the scale which it's

1026
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: effectively taken over. Do you think it relatively new? And

1027
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: I mean it's it showed itself kind of around the

1028
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: late nineties early two thousands. I mean, to be honest,

1029
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: that's what Netflix killed Blockbuster with. And now it's everywhere.

1030
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: Everything is a subscription, and I think the problem for

1031
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: people trying to keep it control of their household budget

1032
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: is that it's very hard to tell what I'm getting

1033
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: built for every bloody month and what I need to

1034
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: go to the supermarket or elsewhere for. It's becoming quite hard.

1035
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: I reckon, And you got food delivery. Do you mean

1036
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: like uberreats as an Uber riots. Yeah, that topous. I

1037
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: don't go to the restaurant anymore. I don't cook it either,

1038
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: I just I call it in. Yeah. I loved writing

1039
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: that chapter.

1040
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: That was one of my favorites to write, because I

1041
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: see those e bikes everywhere. Yeah, people are ordering stuff

1042
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: all the time. And I looked it up to get

1043
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 2: a burrito from my local Mexican joint, which I, like,

1044
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: you know, was X amount to get it delivered from Uber.

1045
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: Each is why I'm out.

1046
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: The difference is forty five percent more expensive.

1047
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: Wow. Really? Yeah, I mean and it makes sense I'm

1048
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 1: ordering a taxi for my dinner. Yeah, that's the truth.

1049
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, but it's sort of it's convenience economy.

1050
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: We know how that works.

1051
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 2: We know there's a cost associated with it, but it's

1052
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: Jesus a lot of money. And the businesses themselves, the

1053
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: small businesses, the restaurants, they're not particularly big fans of it, and.

1054
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: They don't make much money out of it. And you've

1055
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: got to hear loyalty programs in chapter four. It's very interesting.

1056
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: I think we've become a little bit more reserved about

1057
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: loyalty programs to the extent that they're valuable, but lordy programs.

1058
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: And as I look through the whole list here, Black Friday, data, auctions,

1059
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: the process of auctions, insurance by buying our pay later BMPL.

1060
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: How much of these many? How much of this? All

1061
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: your chapters? Do they reflect changes in society? I think

1062
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: they all do.

1063
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: I think that was the That was the intent of

1064
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 2: the book to say, you might be aware of subscriptions,

1065
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 2: and we are all aware of loyalty programs, but the

1066
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 2: rate of change I think makes it worth talking about.

1067
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: Now you know what we knew in twenty nineteen. You know,

1068
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: everything's changed.

1069
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: So this is really to some standard social commentary. I

1070
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 1: think so. And by the way, what's very interesting about

1071
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: that is, I know you've got a cartoon right the front. Okay,

1072
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: so the New Heart subscription was a success? Sorry the

1073
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: what so subscribing to make sure because I actually, you know,

1074
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm black in our Black Mirror the series Black Mirror, Yes,

1075
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: I saw one of the episodes was actually about something

1076
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: like that someone got an implant and there was a

1077
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: subscription process to get this implant. I can't remember what

1078
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: it was now, what it was, I was subscribing to it.

1079
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: But the subscription. They kept getting talked into doing an increase.

1080
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: But if you want this to happen, you have to

1081
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 1: pay more. It's gone from ten bucks a month to

1082
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: twenty bucks a month, but at the right at the end,

1083
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: you get to a point where you can't afford it anymore.

1084
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: And that's that in itself. I mean that that episode

1085
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: of Black Mirage that made me think about technology. But

1086
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: the technology, because all these chapters, while they are reflections

1087
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: on social changes, they're all technology driven.

1088
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: They are, and I think every one of them. That's

1089
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 2: really important. And I think particularly in subscriptions, but really

1090
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: in everything, industries test the boundaries and then they pull

1091
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: back if they go too far, and they test it again.

1092
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: You know, we're all buying electric vehicles now, but some

1093
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: of the biggest electric vehicle electric some of the biggest

1094
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 2: car makers in the world will sell you a car

1095
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: and then for a subscription, the car will go a

1096
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: little bit faster. I mean, that's revolutionary in the car

1097
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: business and a way to make somebody make it not

1098
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: a one off transaction but a subscription. I mean that's

1099
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 2: kind of mind blowing, really, and people get cross but

1100
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: they kind of pay it anyway, and all of a

1101
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: sudden it becomes industry standard. I mean, these is how

1102
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: those changes are made, and they're all happening now. I

1103
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: see this as a big moment for those sorts of changes.

1104
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: It's interesting because you know in business or business modeling

1105
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: or or business modeling in terms of valuation modeling, someone

1106
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 1: who receives a vendor who receives subscriptions from a consumer

1107
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: gets quite a big valuation because the money comes in

1108
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: every month and value is like to see that stuff

1109
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: in terms of looking at the value of the business.

1110
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: And what's happened is the marketplace has worked out wherever

1111
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: we can get a subscription, we should try to get

1112
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: a subscription because it's actually a much bigger value add

1113
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: to the total bottom line value of their business. I'm

1114
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: not necessarily saying profits, but just how people look at

1115
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: the value of these businesses. You know, because it's sort

1116
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: of safer, it's chunkier, you're not relying on one or

1117
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: ten advertisers for example, to how you an advertising fee

1118
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: which gets change every year. People go broke, things happen,

1119
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 1: everything changes, Subscriptions, little bits that no one notices you're

1120
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: paying it. It's not as big a deal for you

1121
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: to pay twenty bucks a month, and just picking on

1122
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: that one particular chapter, the fact that it's an amazing

1123
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: reflection on how technology has now shaping our society and

1124
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: how we all of us are big parts in that.

1125
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: In that we all all we do is we fall

1126
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: into line. We buy the electric car, we pay the subscription,

1127
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: we go to Netflix to pay the subscription, We entered

1128
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: the loyalty programs. Of course, you know, I spent a

1129
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: lot of money these days on my credit card, because

1130
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: everything I spend is on my credit card, because a

1131
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: cash anymore, So I'm going to use my credit card everything.

1132
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: So I'm going to use my credit card everything. I

1133
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: might as well, you know, get free flights or whatever

1134
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: it is yet points and then work out how to

1135
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: sell those points or sorry, commercialize those points in my favor.

1136
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: And we all get caught up in this scheme. And

1137
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an evil thing. But it's interesting

1138
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: that your book and each of the chapters in your

1139
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: book is actually sort of a commentary and all that,

1140
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: and it's actually sort of brings it to life a

1141
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: little bit, makes us think about it. It was that

1142
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: your objective, it was yeh think about this stuff saying that.

1143
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that was certainly the objective is that

1144
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 2: it's so easy to carry on and not notice the

1145
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: change over time, because you know it's nobody comes out

1146
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 2: and says, hey, by the way, you know, the loyalty

1147
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: points actually aren't that good of a deal, and you know, maybe.

1148
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: This I've got your hooked. I got your hooked.

1149
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: And like subscriptions, everybody kind of thinks about the positive

1150
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: because the positive is presented to us. You know, you

1151
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about We're just going to send

1152
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 2: you this thing every month. Forget your choice, whype it

1153
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 2: off your to do list. We sorted you. Of course,

1154
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 2: as a consumer, that's not a good thing. You should

1155
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: be active. You know, if I'm buying nappies, I'm at

1156
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: the supermarket and I'm you know, this is fresh because

1157
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,959
Speaker 2: I got little kids, but I'm making a decision based

1158
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 2: on what I perceived to be quality, value price. If

1159
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 2: I do that over a subscription, I'm making that assessment

1160
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: once for the months and months ahead. And that's not

1161
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: the way I'm supposed to operate. I'm supposed to go

1162
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 2: into the supermarket and go you know what, last time

1163
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: they weren't very good actually, and I'm going to try

1164
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: this new one that I just see pop up. And

1165
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 2: this is how we're supposed to be as consumers. It's

1166
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 2: more pain. It's a pain, you know to do it.

1167
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: Do you think the reason but sorry, Chris, do you

1168
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: think there is for that? Though? Is just on subscriptions

1169
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: for example. And the reason for that and all of

1170
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: these things is because we are too. We are much

1171
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: busier today because we keep talking about productivity, right, and

1172
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: I've actually got a bit of a bugbear about this.

1173
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: I think we are as individuals much more productive as

1174
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: a person than we ever have been. But we are

1175
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: more productive for the economy. And what I mean by

1176
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: that is we every individual is spending much more time

1177
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: doing new things, learning new things. Mate, you might have

1178
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: a side hustle, you're maybe using AI to learn language,

1179
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: you might be what more television so you could. I

1180
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: mean it's not doing anything for the economy, but it's

1181
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: much more productive in terms of your time. You are

1182
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: spending every minute of your time doing something. Whereas before

1183
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: we've got to have a five point thirty, we turn

1184
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: the two what's the six pm news call? You? No

1185
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: one called me or messaged you. Nothing happened, and I

1186
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: talked to my family and I was productive in terms

1187
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: of cultivating relationships with my family. I might have a beer,

1188
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: I might and I bed morning. I probably didn't gether

1189
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: the gym because I've got no pressure socially to go

1190
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: to the gym. I got up and I just wanted

1191
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: to work. And then Sat Day Sunday, I did nothing.

1192
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: I went to the footy and just sort of enjoy thement.

1193
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: I played golf with the case maybe watching my kids

1194
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: play footy today. I actually I am trouble with the

1195
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: fact that people say our productivity is love. I think

1196
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: our productivity analysis, at least in this country anyway, is

1197
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: not correct because it's not including everything we do and

1198
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: businesses business has worked that out about us and therefore

1199
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: keeps us more busy, more busy. So we are more

1200
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: busy now than we've ever been our whole life. Look

1201
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: at you. You work to night, then you're writing books

1202
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: and you're doing your skits, and then you've got to

1203
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: post them on Youtube've got to edit them, you've got

1204
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: to put it. You know, you've got to think about it.

1205
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: You're probably more busy than you've ever been before. It

1206
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're any more money. We're not any more money,

1207
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: but we're more busy. A lot of times we're doing

1208
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: a lot of these. And then it's probably and of

1209
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: course you would be reading stuff, and AI will be

1210
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: making you check stuff, and you might have a thought

1211
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: and you might pump it into copilot, and we're into

1212
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: anthropic wherever it is, and or put them in both

1213
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: like I do to check where they'd give me the

1214
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: same answer. And then you start playing with your other topics,

1215
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: like the Reserve Bank, et cetera. But you might be

1216
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: doing completely the other topic, something completely nothing to do

1217
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: with anything. Do you think that you are more productive?

1218
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: And we do you think we are more productive? In

1219
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: other words, we are producing more outcomes. Its not necessarily

1220
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: economically able to be economically measured, but do you think

1221
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: we are as a society we are more productive? Particularly generation?

1222
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 2: It's really nice to you talk about that, because I've

1223
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 2: aimed sorts of questions. We're really not as productive. Where

1224
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: is this productivity issue coming from? You know, all this

1225
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and so it's kind of nice to

1226
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: you talk about that. Look, I'm certainly doing more. I

1227
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 2: look around and I see everybody else is pretty busy too.

1228
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: Everyone's busy.

1229
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think adding to that, of course, when

1230
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: it comes to being a consumer and how busy we

1231
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 2: are and whether or not we want something to be

1232
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 2: taken off our plate. My god, yeah, sure, sort out

1233
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 2: the nappies whatever. I think we are marketed to very

1234
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: expertly as well, on social media and off. I think

1235
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 2: it's become such a great and you've got to take

1236
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: your hat off to the people in that sector. They

1237
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: do just an incredible job of making you want to

1238
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: do something, making you want.

1239
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: To buy that product. Well, they know what you want. Yeah,

1240
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: they know that because they've got the datata, They've got

1241
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: the data.

1242
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 2: And this is and if you read the chapters on

1243
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 2: things like loyalty programs, you know, you see that My

1244
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 2: case is effectively that these are data generating machines. They're

1245
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 2: not points. We're not we're not trading in points. We're

1246
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: trading in data and that's extremely valuable. And the exchange

1247
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: rate for points to our data is way out of kilter.

1248
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not getting we're not getting proper value because

1249
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: we're not really thinking about it. Yeah, because we we're

1250
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: nearly I know this is getting a bit spooky. But

1251
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: are we in a simulation like that? Yes, because we're

1252
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: all subscribing, we're all netflixing, we're all buying reads. We're

1253
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: all not doing everything and like you're talking about, they're

1254
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: all running around trying to do a side hustles. We're

1255
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: all working in a mainstream job, we're all getting a mortgage,

1256
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: We're all doing everything the same as everybody else. That's

1257
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: why books like this are great, mate, because it actually

1258
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: makes us think. You've made me think. I mean, I'm

1259
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: here talking to you about it, but you made me think.

1260
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: We're definitely I don't think we're in a simulation, but

1261
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: it's quite possible.

1262
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: That's nice because if the shoes on the other foot

1263
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: for once, that's great. Because the amount of times you've

1264
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: made me think and I've interviewed you and come off

1265
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: better for.

1266
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: It now I mind. But I do believe that's because

1267
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: and I think it takes. That's why I love talking

1268
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: to younger people. And you're much younger than much younger

1269
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: than me, and I'm more here Dad's vintage, and you

1270
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: know you guys, I do believe that societally, we do

1271
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: not give your generation and the generation younger than you

1272
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: enough credit for the thinking processes that you guys undertake,

1273
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: and your generation and the younger generation of you actually

1274
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: get often get accused as being not lazy, but not

1275
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: being as were committed as we were, you know, like

1276
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: when I was your age, and I think that's bullshit.

1277
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: I just think you just got a lot more to

1278
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: do with I mean, I just think there's just a

1279
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: lot more shit going on, a lot more stuff going

1280
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: on where you're more engaged, and you actually have a

1281
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: better view compared to us. We're very block youed. I

1282
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: try to be wider because I have a showload this

1283
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: so I have to be but and I have the

1284
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to be like you. Most people don't

1285
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: have that opportunity, which is why I do the show.

1286
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 1: By the way I do this show, this is not

1287
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: a money making thing. I do this show to expose

1288
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: audiences to people like you and your way thinking or

1289
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, the way of thinking of a UFC fighter,

1290
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: or the way of thinking of a politician or a banker.

1291
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: You know, I had sitting in that chair, I had

1292
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: Anthony Miller to see west Paate Bank. I wanted to

1293
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: expose an audience to the way the boss of a

1294
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: big bank thinks, and that if they're not big, bad

1295
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: is either Anthony Miller is actually a really good, humble,

1296
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: smart guy committed to Westpac, to his bank, and to

1297
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: his shoulders and to his stuff. And I'm lucky and

1298
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: I get to do that, And I mean it's more

1299
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: difficult in your world. You're doing little bites of stuff.

1300
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I hear, and I think it's

1301
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: such a great thing to do, to be able to

1302
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: sort of move around into different topics and kind of

1303
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: guide a loyal what is now a really loyal audience

1304
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 2: through that. I think it's fantastic. I mean, I'm sort

1305
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 2: of lucky in the same way that I do get

1306
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: to sit down with a CEO. I feel very lucky

1307
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: that I am in the room and I get to

1308
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: ask a question of Michelle Bullock an hour after that.

1309
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: Believe so cool.

1310
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's cool, but it's a responsibility and I

1311
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: want people.

1312
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: To know that I take it seriously. What question did

1313
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: you ask? By the way, we're not the ABC answer.

1314
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I basically wanted to know how

1315
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,919
Speaker 2: she feels about the abount of pressure that she's putting

1316
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 2: on households.

1317
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: Can you share her response. Yeah, yeah, and you can

1318
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: see it again.

1319
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 2: I mean, she basically said, look, I understand that it's difficult,

1320
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: and understand this is a blood instrument because you know

1321
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: what we were talking about before. Is it fair that

1322
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,959
Speaker 2: it piles onto borrowers and they are expected to turn

1323
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 2: the wheel of the economy while others have more money

1324
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: to spend, and you know, borrowers, some of them going

1325
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: to go broke as a result of an interest rate

1326
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 2: increase or two or three, or.

1327
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: Stop paying the kids ballet classes or something will stop.

1328
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think what I learned from the response

1329
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 2: was that, you know, Michelle Bullock, the board Central bankers

1330
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 2: in general, they're not blind to this. They are working

1331
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: in the confines of pretty specific sets of goals and

1332
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: a pretty inelegant tool and mechanism to do.

1333
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: That with lots of elegant data and lots of eligant models,

1334
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: but that are really blunt instrument.

1335
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it may look at it. To be honest,

1336
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 2: it made me and I have a huge amount of

1337
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 2: respect for Michelle Bullok. I say, you know, I have

1338
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 2: watched her do that press conference a lot of times now.

1339
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: I think that she is patient and I think she

1340
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: really does want to get the message across as clearly

1341
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: and responsibly as she can. And so I think, you know,

1342
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 2: my hatties all the way off. And I take the

1343
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 2: responsibility of asking a question quite seriously. But you have

1344
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,919
Speaker 2: to really think about it. You have to think about

1345
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 2: what is going to help me structure a narrative into

1346
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 2: this story. How am I going to get the viewer

1347
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: from one end of the story to the other and

1348
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 2: then have a really clear idea of what's going on?

1349
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 2: And I think for that day on Tuesday, I thought,

1350
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: people are going to feel like they've been smashed here.

1351
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 2: A large portion of the population is going to feel

1352
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 2: like what just happened now unfair. In November, we weren't

1353
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: supposed to be It was supposed to be more cuts

1354
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, and here we are, first meeting

1355
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 2: back February. We've got a hike. That's what I expected

1356
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 2: people at home to say. And so I wanted to say,

1357
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 2: you know, what do you say to the people who

1358
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: are feeling a bit hit for six here? And her

1359
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: response was reasonable.

1360
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, I actually I thought your your skip

1361
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: was quite measured, but it was actually it was quite

1362
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: clever too. I mean, you were Michelle Bullock or the

1363
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: the You weren't the Reserve Bank governor. You were what

1364
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: did you call it? This central bank? Central banker Because.

1365
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 2: To the point before, these are dynamics that people are

1366
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: familiar with elsewhere in the world as well.

1367
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have probably have got some acceptance overseas,

1368
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: particularly in the United States. But you were the central banker.

1369
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: But then you're also the consumer sitting at the other end.

1370
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 2: So I find that that can be helpful for the

1371
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 2: audience as well, to have a proxy and sort of say, okay,

1372
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 2: let's slow this down.

1373
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean by that?

1374
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 2: And I think I think it's it's kind of nice

1375
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: to be able to even to yourself, force yourself to

1376
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: explain it to yourself, you know, and be that person.

1377
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: Be both persons.

1378
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: It's right, subtract everything. What am I really trying to

1379
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 2: say here?

1380
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: You know, that's actually a good way putting it, you

1381
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: because like, if you've got to be both persons, like

1382
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: you've got to be the central banker and the consumer

1383
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: who doesn't quite understand the central bank speak, that makes

1384
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: you actually probably have a better understanding of the plight

1385
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: to both.

1386
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 2: That's nice of you, because I certainly don't want to

1387
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 2: ever point the finger unless it's absolutely necessary and say

1388
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 2: this person's a baddie.

1389
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: I just don't see that.

1390
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: In our economy, I see competing incentives a lot of

1391
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: the time. I see an interesting and lively jungle out there.

1392
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 2: But you know, we are fairly lucky in Australia. As

1393
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 2: we discussed before, we're well regulated. You know, major institutions

1394
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 2: have a relatively close high cast on them. I think

1395
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 2: what I don't want to do is be overly cynical

1396
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 2: and paint somebody in a way that he's completely unfair.

1397
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 2: I just don't want to do that, and I'm trying

1398
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 2: not to.

1399
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: Is that your generation, Because do you think your generation

1400
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: is more fair than say, maybe my generation, and particularly

1401
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: in terms of journalism, I don't know about that. I

1402
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: mean more fair.

1403
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 2: I like a lot of the journalists who came the

1404
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 2: generation before me. I think I did a pretty.

1405
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: Good job, but they were a little bit more brutal.

1406
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: I think, do you think so?

1407
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 2: I mean, you you probably had to cop plenty of

1408
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 2: hard questions.

1409
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: I did totally, and I got plenty of stuff that

1410
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: I felt like was unfair and inaccurate. But I think, Yeah,

1411
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: I just think that those journalists were Joe never got me.

1412
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: That was great, thank god, because Joe's probably the worst,

1413
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: I mean, the best of the worst. And what I

1414
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 1: remember that is the toughest strike for you. He's the

1415
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: best hard marker there is, Joe Aston I'm talking about

1416
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: as you know, I was. Joe was. Yeah. I never

1417
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: really got through his crosshairs, thank god, but I did

1418
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: get plenty of cis in various various ways. And I

1419
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 1: felt as though, I feel as though today's journalism, like

1420
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the Daily Mail and

1421
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, they're I think they're fairer, you think,

1422
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: I know, I think they're more measured. That's good.

1423
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's a that's a good outcome

1424
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 2: for somebody in your position who has been and seen

1425
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: the way best and worst you can. Yeah, I think

1426
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 2: I think that's that's good news because we you know,

1427
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 2: there's not it's not a good thing to be too

1428
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, one sided.

1429
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: Or too brutal, too brutal, I mean, and we have

1430
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 1: enough of that when we watch Trump et cetera, like

1431
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 1: we see the brutality of world leaders. I don't think

1432
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: we need to sort of see the same thing both

1433
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: at also at a journalistic level. I mean, and I

1434
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 1: think maybe because some of the world leaders are so

1435
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: brutal these days that journalists are actually sort of starting

1436
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 1: to pull back. And I think social media helps you

1437
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: that way, because you find out very quickly whether you've

1438
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: been unfair or fair. People will tell you straight up.

1439
01:08:59,040 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: People do tell you.

1440
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: They tell you to go harder, or that you've missed

1441
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 2: the point, or that you you know, that's not that's

1442
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 2: not the real issue, And of course they're entitled to

1443
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 2: their opinion. But yeah, I mean, look, I think it's

1444
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 2: very important not to dehumanize anyone. And you know, to

1445
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 2: your point before, Anthony Miller is a great bloke sitting

1446
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 2: at atop a very large.

1447
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: Tough job to institution.

1448
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 2: I don't think CEOs of banks are evil in anyone

1449
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 2: at all, and I hope it doesn't come.

1450
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: Off that way.

1451
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 2: In fact, when I do these kids, I want people

1452
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 2: to see that there's there's a person there. Sometimes the

1453
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 2: intent is to make money. Sometimes it's at a cost

1454
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: to ethics perhaps, but I mean everyone's just a person really.

1455
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I.

1456
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: Can devially say none of the big bank leaders are none.

1457
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: I know most of them. I've had general had some

1458
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: interaction with them at some point of the Big five,

1459
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: and they're all good people doing their best. We've got

1460
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: shareholder of obligations and which why we should have more

1461
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: of those conversations with those individuals. Well, mate, I'm going

1462
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: to give this one quick pump. How they get you,

1463
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 1: Chris Cohler, I'm not sure, but I think the chapters

1464
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: are probably probably better representation what the book is because

1465
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 1: he's not really telling you that, he doesn't really say

1466
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: who they are. But there's twenty four chapters, I think,

1467
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: and for me anyway, this sort of stuff is the

1468
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: sort of stuff that we need to read, and it's

1469
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: a good representation of how society has changed and how

1470
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: we got to start to think about how we spend

1471
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: our lives whilst they earn their lives, so we've got

1472
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: to start thinking about how we spend the lives. And

1473
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: this is by Chris Coler. Good luck to you, mate.

1474
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, mamm I appreciate you're welcome.

1475
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: As always,