WEBVTT - What’s next for Kyle Sandilands?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Kristin Amiot.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday March nineteen, twenty twenty six. Jim Chalmers says

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<v Speaker 1>the conflict in the Middle East could push inflation above

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<v Speaker 1>five percent and in a major speech in Melbourne today,

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<v Speaker 1>the Treasurer will warn the economic after shock may be

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<v Speaker 1>felt for the rest of the decade. That story is

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<v Speaker 1>live right now at the Australian dot com dot au.

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<v Speaker 1>The future of one of Australia's most well paid media

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<v Speaker 1>personalities is up in the air after his contract was

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<v Speaker 1>torn up, but Kyle Sandalans says he won't go down

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<v Speaker 1>without a legal fight and claims he'll take his former employer,

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<v Speaker 1>the radio network ARN, to court for breaching their agreement. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>media editor James Madden wades into the legal drama and

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<v Speaker 1>places his bets on what the outer work Shock DOOC

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<v Speaker 1>does next. James Madden is The Australian's Media editor, James.

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<v Speaker 1>Kyle Sandalan said on Wednesday morning, as news of his

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<v Speaker 1>contract termination by ARN broke that he didn't accept that

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<v Speaker 1>decision by ARN and that it wasn't legally valid for

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<v Speaker 1>them to do that. Does he actually have a credible

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<v Speaker 1>legal claim here.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the early narrative out of the Sandalance camp is

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<v Speaker 2>that they're not for turning. It's all or nothing, and

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<v Speaker 2>they intend to pursue this through the courts if a

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<v Speaker 2>satisfactory outcome isn't reached by negotiation. Now it appears that

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<v Speaker 2>this is destined for the courts at this stage, because

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<v Speaker 2>there's no way known that arn is going to pay

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<v Speaker 2>the balance of that ten year contract, which is give

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<v Speaker 2>or take eighty eight million dollars to Sandalance, So if

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<v Speaker 2>there is a negotiation to be had, it'll be no

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<v Speaker 2>any of that figure. But Sandalans is certainly saying that's

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<v Speaker 2>the money I want. I've been wrongfully terminated and you

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<v Speaker 2>know you haven't held up your end of the bargain.

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<v Speaker 1>Kyle was given fourteen days to patch things up with

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<v Speaker 1>his longtime co host to Jackie Henderson, who's known as

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<v Speaker 1>Jackie O on air. That hasn't happened. Was there an

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<v Speaker 1>attempt by Kyle to rectify the situation before Wednesday?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean, Kyle's been quite open about the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that he regrets what he said to Jackie O

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<v Speaker 2>on air.

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<v Speaker 1>You're off with the fairies with you where you no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me where I've been off with the fairies during

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<v Speaker 1>the show. I don't have to, I don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>prove it.

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<v Speaker 2>He claims that he apologized in fact over the phone

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<v Speaker 2>on that night, and it seems that after a calling

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<v Speaker 2>off period following their argument, if you want to call it, that,

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<v Speaker 2>that they have been actually speaking reasonably regularly over the phone,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm told it's been quite amicable. That said, it

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<v Speaker 2>seems impossible now that there'll ever be an on air

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<v Speaker 2>reunion between Kyle and Jackie O. For starters, Jackie is

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<v Speaker 2>also out of a job as we speak, given that

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<v Speaker 2>her contract was also torn up by AARN in the

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<v Speaker 2>wake of that on air spat. Of course, JACKIEO has

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<v Speaker 2>received an offer, an informal offer by ARN for a

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<v Speaker 2>quote unquote new show. What that might look like is

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<v Speaker 2>still up in the air, because, as I understand it,

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<v Speaker 2>Henderson is not engaging with ARN at present, which suggests

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<v Speaker 2>that legal action from her camp is also afoot.

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<v Speaker 1>Since this all blew up on air, she has since

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<v Speaker 1>come out and said I didn't resign, I didn't quit

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<v Speaker 1>before her part of this two hundred million dollar contract

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<v Speaker 1>was terminated. She is, as you say, now, mulling over

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<v Speaker 1>her own legal action. What do we know about Kyle

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<v Speaker 1>and Jackie O's contracts? Of course, the two hundred million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar number is the one that everybody knows that is

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<v Speaker 1>split down the middle between the two of them. But

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<v Speaker 1>what do we know about the actual contracts that are

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<v Speaker 1>at the center of this dispute in both camps? Are

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<v Speaker 1>they the same or are their differences in those contracts

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<v Speaker 1>that might put them on a different footing legally even

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<v Speaker 1>when these matters do come to court.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of Kyle's confidence since this saga began has been

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<v Speaker 2>his claim that it's in his contract that he's basically

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<v Speaker 2>given free reign to say whatever he likes on air,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously with the caveat that he can't say anything illegal.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's also an argument to be made that aarn

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<v Speaker 2>knew that he was offensive, or at least many people

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<v Speaker 2>knew that some of the content that he produced was

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<v Speaker 2>likely to offend, and it could be argued that that's

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<v Speaker 2>the reason they hired him and paid him as much

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<v Speaker 2>as they did. Because sensational radio leads to ratings, leads

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<v Speaker 2>advertising revenue. Whether or not Jackie O has the same

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<v Speaker 2>free reign as Kyle is unknown because their contracts haven't

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<v Speaker 2>been made public for good reason at this point. But

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<v Speaker 2>as the contract itself suggests and the split of the money,

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<v Speaker 2>as you say, it's very much a partnership Kyle and

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<v Speaker 2>Jackie Oh. So, Yes, they're paid equally, and as co

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<v Speaker 2>contributors to the show and co hosts of the show,

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<v Speaker 2>you would expect that both of them are covered for

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<v Speaker 2>any offensive conduct or material that they may or may

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<v Speaker 2>not produce.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it could be argued that even if Jackie O

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have a clear provision in her contract, that would

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<v Speaker 1>put her on that same footing as Kyle in a

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<v Speaker 1>legal circumstance that she has been the beneficiary of that

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<v Speaker 1>very successful format for a very long time. In his

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<v Speaker 1>statement on Wednesday morning, Kyle Sandalan's characterized that on ASPAT

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<v Speaker 1>as a blue something that has happened countless times over

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<v Speaker 1>the last twenty five years that they've been working together,

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<v Speaker 1>and something that has come to characterize their brand, their

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<v Speaker 1>show on the air. In the immediate aftermath of that moment,

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<v Speaker 1>Jackie Henderson actually called it an attack. She said that

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<v Speaker 1>she was hurt by it, and ARN the parent company,

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<v Speaker 1>said that she had come to them and said that,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, she could no longer work with Kyle. A

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<v Speaker 1>RN itself characterized that moment as serious misconduct. So all

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<v Speaker 1>of that terminology brought together. What's Kyle Sandalan's doing here?

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<v Speaker 1>Is he attempting to minimize that specific moment in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five years of radio in order to put himself in

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<v Speaker 1>the best possible position for.

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<v Speaker 2>Legal action possibly. I mean that clip of the exchange

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<v Speaker 2>between Kyle and Jackie Oe and February twenty has been

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<v Speaker 2>played at nauseum in the past three or four weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>Going on Am Kyle that I totally am offended by

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<v Speaker 1>you saying something.

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<v Speaker 3>Bad if you are, because that's the reality of what

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<v Speaker 3>we're dealing with here.

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<v Speaker 1>That is so unfair.

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<v Speaker 2>I have been and anybody who's listened to that show

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<v Speaker 2>or even other FM radio shows would surely not see

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<v Speaker 2>that as the most offensive or even acerbic exchange between

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<v Speaker 2>two on air hosts. Clearly Jackie O was upset by it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it did sting her personally. But as we've

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<v Speaker 2>reported in the Australian last week, there was an almost

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<v Speaker 2>identical exchange twelve months ago in which Kyle chided Jackie

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<v Speaker 2>over her fixation with astrology, and at the time it

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<v Speaker 2>was laughed off.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'll take your word for her. I don't mean

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<v Speaker 3>to be combat it with you. That's just the way

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<v Speaker 3>it is. Okay, bye bye.

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<v Speaker 1>Constantly getting in gas lit around here, go pulling.

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<v Speaker 3>Up those fine statements. You can't mention anything to you ever, ghastline,

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<v Speaker 3>can you believe it?

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<v Speaker 2>So for whatever reason, she took offense on February twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the saga began. Kyle certainly isn't trying to

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<v Speaker 2>suggest that he did the right thing by berating her. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 2>he's apologized and has expressed regret for what he did.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, in that apology is a

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose admission that it doesn't go close to some

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<v Speaker 2>of the other things he said on radio. And indeed

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<v Speaker 2>he's made the point that the radio show on KISSFM,

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<v Speaker 2>owned by ARN, is promoted as Radio Gone rogue. So

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<v Speaker 2>the expectation by the listeners but also by the company

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<v Speaker 2>itself is that Kyle and Jackie O would push the envelope,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's what they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's the calculus do you think that's going on

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<v Speaker 1>in the conference rooms of ARN For the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks end today as we're talking, did they, as

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<v Speaker 1>Kyle Sandlans again has suggested in the statement he released

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<v Speaker 1>on Wednesday, take this opportunity to get out of what

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<v Speaker 1>is a very expensive contract when they saw and frankly

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<v Speaker 1>everybody saw that it wasn't working. Or is this for

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<v Speaker 1>them a cut and dry workplace dispute and they are

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<v Speaker 1>backing an employee who expressed concern over the way that

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<v Speaker 1>she was treated by a colleague.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, the way they're like the public to see it

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<v Speaker 2>is that they are defending jack Yo's right to operate

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<v Speaker 2>in a safe work environment, as they should. But numerous

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<v Speaker 2>media commentators have observed that, as you say, this contract

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<v Speaker 2>was bloated to the point of face. Really, the idea

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<v Speaker 2>that anyone on radio could be worth ten million dollars

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<v Speaker 2>a year they're alone over the course of a decade

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<v Speaker 2>is real yesteryear's stuff. So yes, they are putting it

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<v Speaker 2>out there that their primary can con is for Jackie

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<v Speaker 2>Oh and her right to not be bullied and to

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<v Speaker 2>feel safe in the workplace was their paramount concern. However, realistically,

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<v Speaker 2>there is no planet on which ARN thinks that they

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<v Speaker 2>can sustain this contract over a decade or eight in

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<v Speaker 2>a bit years, that being the remainder of the contract.

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<v Speaker 2>If you were wargaming this inside the Arn boardroom, and yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I was a flying a wall on that wall,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm not. But if you were wargaming it, surely

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<v Speaker 2>the idea is we owe both these parties eighty eight

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars, so one hundred and seventy six mil over

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<v Speaker 2>the next eight and a lot years. If we can

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<v Speaker 2>somehow negotiate our way out of that for half or

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<v Speaker 2>more likely less than half, is that a win for

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<v Speaker 2>our shareholders? Answer? Yes? On the face of it. Does

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<v Speaker 2>it look like a loss if you're paying two parties,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say, sixty seventy million to walk away and do nothing, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that looks like a loss. But of things, when your

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<v Speaker 2>obligation is to the shareholders, if you're saving maybe close

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<v Speaker 2>to one hundred mil over a decade, then you could

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<v Speaker 2>probably justify that to shareholders and within the boardroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, So what next for Kyle Sandalans, Perhaps in

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<v Speaker 1>a case of divine timing. The radio ratings are out

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<v Speaker 1>today as we're talking. There's been a rotating roster of

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<v Speaker 1>hosts filling in the breakfast s lot ever since Kyle

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<v Speaker 1>and Jackie O came off the air. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>ARN will suffer from a ratings perspective and from a

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<v Speaker 1>listenership perspective in the coming months and years or is

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of a blip and things will sort themselves

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<v Speaker 1>out down the line.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no doubt that in Sydney at least, there is

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<v Speaker 2>no way they will be able to replicate the ratings

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<v Speaker 2>of Kyle and Jackio in the short term. Today's ratings

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<v Speaker 2>will be I think from a six week period up

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<v Speaker 2>until February twenty seven, so Kyle and Jackio will be

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<v Speaker 2>registered in that rating survey for five of those six weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>and their ratings in Sydney have been outstanding for a

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<v Speaker 2>long time and they have held the FM ratings crown

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<v Speaker 2>for years and years and years. ARM will lose that

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<v Speaker 2>as of next survey because you can't just drop in

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<v Speaker 2>an untested team and expect them to garner an audience

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<v Speaker 2>straight off the bat. So in a way, it's careful

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<v Speaker 2>what you wish for situation for ARN, because if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't have a solid breakfast team and this goes across

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<v Speaker 2>FM and AM, it's a golden rule of radio. If

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have a solid breakfast team, the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>your content slate for the rest of the day suffers

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<v Speaker 2>because you don't have a strong lead in So breakfast

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<v Speaker 2>is everything in radio and there's going to be some

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<v Speaker 2>headaches for arn as to who can possibly fill that void.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite simply the audience that listens to Jackie O. In

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<v Speaker 2>the short term, we'll go elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>You've mentioned the Sydney audience there. Kyle and JACKIEO, as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, have been incredibly successful in this market for

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<v Speaker 1>a very very long time. But we know that Kyle

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<v Speaker 1>Sandalans in particular doesn't hold the same appeal in other

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<v Speaker 1>markets across Australia as he does in Sydney. So legal

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<v Speaker 1>disputes aside, what does Kyle Sandalanz do next?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's true the show failed in Melbourne, but Jackie

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<v Speaker 2>O and Kyle have a curious kind of celebrity in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia whereby they are very Sydney figures, and yet they

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<v Speaker 2>have reasonable profile celebrity profiles at least in other states

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<v Speaker 2>and cities. So it wouldn't be out of the realms

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<v Speaker 2>of possibility for Kyle to try and tap other markets

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<v Speaker 2>either through a podcast or some other form, and Jackie

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<v Speaker 2>O too because they are known. Certainly might not work

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<v Speaker 2>in Melbourne, but they haven't really been tested in Brisbane

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<v Speaker 2>where it could be successful. But I do think he does,

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<v Speaker 2>as he says himself, have options because he is a

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<v Speaker 2>readily identifiable radio personality, not by any means widely loved,

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<v Speaker 2>but widely recognized and that has its own cachet.

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<v Speaker 1>This is what Kyle had to say about his future

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 1>employment plans on an episode of the TV talent show

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Australian Idol this Week, where he's a judge.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes today, Ricky, I've got nothing else on my mind

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<v Speaker 3>except for the excitement of the vote and look at you.

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<v Speaker 3>I also am dressed on this because I have a

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<v Speaker 3>job interview at Low's after the show. Those radio guys,

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<v Speaker 3>once you're out of radio, all you can do is

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<v Speaker 3>sell socks at Low's at Low's. No savior, not you can.

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<v Speaker 1>James Madden, thank you very much, Thank you, Christen. James

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Madden is The Australian's Media editor. You can read all

0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 1>his reporting and analysis on this brewing legal drama right

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<v Speaker 1>now at The Australian dot com dot au