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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Kristin Amiot.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday March nineteen, twenty twenty six. Jim Chalmers says

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Speaker 1: the conflict in the Middle East could push inflation above

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Speaker 1: five percent and in a major speech in Melbourne today,

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Speaker 1: the Treasurer will warn the economic after shock may be

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Speaker 1: felt for the rest of the decade. That story is

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Speaker 1: live right now at the Australian dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: The future of one of Australia's most well paid media

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Speaker 1: personalities is up in the air after his contract was

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Speaker 1: torn up, but Kyle Sandalans says he won't go down

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Speaker 1: without a legal fight and claims he'll take his former employer,

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Speaker 1: the radio network ARN, to court for breaching their agreement. Today,

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Speaker 1: media editor James Madden wades into the legal drama and

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Speaker 1: places his bets on what the outer work Shock DOOC

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Speaker 1: does next. James Madden is The Australian's Media editor, James.

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Speaker 1: Kyle Sandalan said on Wednesday morning, as news of his

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Speaker 1: contract termination by ARN broke that he didn't accept that

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Speaker 1: decision by ARN and that it wasn't legally valid for

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Speaker 1: them to do that. Does he actually have a credible

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Speaker 1: legal claim here.

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Speaker 2: Well, the early narrative out of the Sandalance camp is

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Speaker 2: that they're not for turning. It's all or nothing, and

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Speaker 2: they intend to pursue this through the courts if a

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Speaker 2: satisfactory outcome isn't reached by negotiation. Now it appears that

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Speaker 2: this is destined for the courts at this stage, because

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Speaker 2: there's no way known that arn is going to pay

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Speaker 2: the balance of that ten year contract, which is give

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Speaker 2: or take eighty eight million dollars to Sandalance, So if

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Speaker 2: there is a negotiation to be had, it'll be no

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Speaker 2: any of that figure. But Sandalans is certainly saying that's

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Speaker 2: the money I want. I've been wrongfully terminated and you

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Speaker 2: know you haven't held up your end of the bargain.

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Speaker 1: Kyle was given fourteen days to patch things up with

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Speaker 1: his longtime co host to Jackie Henderson, who's known as

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Speaker 1: Jackie O on air. That hasn't happened. Was there an

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Speaker 1: attempt by Kyle to rectify the situation before Wednesday?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, Kyle's been quite open about the

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Speaker 2: fact that he regrets what he said to Jackie O

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Speaker 2: on air.

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Speaker 1: You're off with the fairies with you where you no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: tell me where I've been off with the fairies during

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Speaker 1: the show. I don't have to, I don't have to

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Speaker 1: prove it.

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Speaker 2: He claims that he apologized in fact over the phone

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Speaker 2: on that night, and it seems that after a calling

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Speaker 2: off period following their argument, if you want to call it, that,

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Speaker 2: that they have been actually speaking reasonably regularly over the phone,

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Speaker 2: and I'm told it's been quite amicable. That said, it

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Speaker 2: seems impossible now that there'll ever be an on air

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Speaker 2: reunion between Kyle and Jackie O. For starters, Jackie is

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Speaker 2: also out of a job as we speak, given that

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Speaker 2: her contract was also torn up by AARN in the

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Speaker 2: wake of that on air spat. Of course, JACKIEO has

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Speaker 2: received an offer, an informal offer by ARN for a

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Speaker 2: quote unquote new show. What that might look like is

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Speaker 2: still up in the air, because, as I understand it,

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Speaker 2: Henderson is not engaging with ARN at present, which suggests

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Speaker 2: that legal action from her camp is also afoot.

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Speaker 1: Since this all blew up on air, she has since

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Speaker 1: come out and said I didn't resign, I didn't quit

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Speaker 1: before her part of this two hundred million dollar contract

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Speaker 1: was terminated. She is, as you say, now, mulling over

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Speaker 1: her own legal action. What do we know about Kyle

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Speaker 1: and Jackie O's contracts? Of course, the two hundred million

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Speaker 1: dollar number is the one that everybody knows that is

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Speaker 1: split down the middle between the two of them. But

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Speaker 1: what do we know about the actual contracts that are

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Speaker 1: at the center of this dispute in both camps? Are

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Speaker 1: they the same or are their differences in those contracts

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Speaker 1: that might put them on a different footing legally even

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Speaker 1: when these matters do come to court.

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Speaker 2: Part of Kyle's confidence since this saga began has been

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Speaker 2: his claim that it's in his contract that he's basically

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Speaker 2: given free reign to say whatever he likes on air,

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Speaker 2: obviously with the caveat that he can't say anything illegal.

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Speaker 2: But there's also an argument to be made that aarn

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Speaker 2: knew that he was offensive, or at least many people

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Speaker 2: knew that some of the content that he produced was

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Speaker 2: likely to offend, and it could be argued that that's

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Speaker 2: the reason they hired him and paid him as much

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Speaker 2: as they did. Because sensational radio leads to ratings, leads

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Speaker 2: advertising revenue. Whether or not Jackie O has the same

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Speaker 2: free reign as Kyle is unknown because their contracts haven't

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Speaker 2: been made public for good reason at this point. But

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Speaker 2: as the contract itself suggests and the split of the money,

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Speaker 2: as you say, it's very much a partnership Kyle and

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Speaker 2: Jackie Oh. So, Yes, they're paid equally, and as co

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Speaker 2: contributors to the show and co hosts of the show,

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Speaker 2: you would expect that both of them are covered for

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Speaker 2: any offensive conduct or material that they may or may

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Speaker 2: not produce.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be argued that even if Jackie O

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a clear provision in her contract, that would

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Speaker 1: put her on that same footing as Kyle in a

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Speaker 1: legal circumstance that she has been the beneficiary of that

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Speaker 1: very successful format for a very long time. In his

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Speaker 1: statement on Wednesday morning, Kyle Sandalan's characterized that on ASPAT

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Speaker 1: as a blue something that has happened countless times over

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Speaker 1: the last twenty five years that they've been working together,

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Speaker 1: and something that has come to characterize their brand, their

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Speaker 1: show on the air. In the immediate aftermath of that moment,

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Speaker 1: Jackie Henderson actually called it an attack. She said that

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Speaker 1: she was hurt by it, and ARN the parent company,

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Speaker 1: said that she had come to them and said that,

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Speaker 1: in fact, she could no longer work with Kyle. A

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Speaker 1: RN itself characterized that moment as serious misconduct. So all

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Speaker 1: of that terminology brought together. What's Kyle Sandalan's doing here?

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Speaker 1: Is he attempting to minimize that specific moment in twenty

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Speaker 1: five years of radio in order to put himself in

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Speaker 1: the best possible position for.

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Speaker 2: Legal action possibly. I mean that clip of the exchange

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Speaker 2: between Kyle and Jackie Oe and February twenty has been

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Speaker 2: played at nauseum in the past three or four weeks.

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Speaker 1: Going on Am Kyle that I totally am offended by

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Speaker 1: you saying something.

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Speaker 3: Bad if you are, because that's the reality of what

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Speaker 3: we're dealing with here.

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Speaker 1: That is so unfair.

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Speaker 2: I have been and anybody who's listened to that show

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Speaker 2: or even other FM radio shows would surely not see

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Speaker 2: that as the most offensive or even acerbic exchange between

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Speaker 2: two on air hosts. Clearly Jackie O was upset by it.

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Speaker 2: I think it did sting her personally. But as we've

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Speaker 2: reported in the Australian last week, there was an almost

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Speaker 2: identical exchange twelve months ago in which Kyle chided Jackie

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Speaker 2: over her fixation with astrology, and at the time it

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Speaker 2: was laughed off.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'll take your word for her. I don't mean

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Speaker 3: to be combat it with you. That's just the way

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Speaker 3: it is. Okay, bye bye.

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Speaker 1: Constantly getting in gas lit around here, go pulling.

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Speaker 3: Up those fine statements. You can't mention anything to you ever, ghastline,

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Speaker 3: can you believe it?

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Speaker 2: So for whatever reason, she took offense on February twenty,

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Speaker 2: and then the saga began. Kyle certainly isn't trying to

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Speaker 2: suggest that he did the right thing by berating her. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: he's apologized and has expressed regret for what he did.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, in that apology is a

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Speaker 2: I suppose admission that it doesn't go close to some

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Speaker 2: of the other things he said on radio. And indeed

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Speaker 2: he's made the point that the radio show on KISSFM,

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Speaker 2: owned by ARN, is promoted as Radio Gone rogue. So

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Speaker 2: the expectation by the listeners but also by the company

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Speaker 2: itself is that Kyle and Jackie O would push the envelope,

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Speaker 2: and that's what they do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the calculus do you think that's going on

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Speaker 1: in the conference rooms of ARN For the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks end today as we're talking, did they, as

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Speaker 1: Kyle Sandlans again has suggested in the statement he released

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday, take this opportunity to get out of what

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Speaker 1: is a very expensive contract when they saw and frankly

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Speaker 1: everybody saw that it wasn't working. Or is this for

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Speaker 1: them a cut and dry workplace dispute and they are

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Speaker 1: backing an employee who expressed concern over the way that

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Speaker 1: she was treated by a colleague.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the way they're like the public to see it

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Speaker 2: is that they are defending jack Yo's right to operate

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Speaker 2: in a safe work environment, as they should. But numerous

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Speaker 2: media commentators have observed that, as you say, this contract

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Speaker 2: was bloated to the point of face. Really, the idea

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Speaker 2: that anyone on radio could be worth ten million dollars

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Speaker 2: a year they're alone over the course of a decade

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Speaker 2: is real yesteryear's stuff. So yes, they are putting it

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Speaker 2: out there that their primary can con is for Jackie

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Speaker 2: Oh and her right to not be bullied and to

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Speaker 2: feel safe in the workplace was their paramount concern. However, realistically,

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Speaker 2: there is no planet on which ARN thinks that they

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Speaker 2: can sustain this contract over a decade or eight in

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Speaker 2: a bit years, that being the remainder of the contract.

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Speaker 2: If you were wargaming this inside the Arn boardroom, and yes,

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Speaker 2: I wish I was a flying a wall on that wall,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not. But if you were wargaming it, surely

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Speaker 2: the idea is we owe both these parties eighty eight

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Speaker 2: million dollars, so one hundred and seventy six mil over

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Speaker 2: the next eight and a lot years. If we can

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Speaker 2: somehow negotiate our way out of that for half or

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Speaker 2: more likely less than half, is that a win for

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Speaker 2: our shareholders? Answer? Yes? On the face of it. Does

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Speaker 2: it look like a loss if you're paying two parties,

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Speaker 2: let's say, sixty seventy million to walk away and do nothing, Yes,

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Speaker 2: that looks like a loss. But of things, when your

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Speaker 2: obligation is to the shareholders, if you're saving maybe close

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Speaker 2: to one hundred mil over a decade, then you could

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Speaker 2: probably justify that to shareholders and within the boardroom.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, So what next for Kyle Sandalans, Perhaps in

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Speaker 1: a case of divine timing. The radio ratings are out

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Speaker 1: today as we're talking. There's been a rotating roster of

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Speaker 1: hosts filling in the breakfast s lot ever since Kyle

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Speaker 1: and Jackie O came off the air. Do you think

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Speaker 1: ARN will suffer from a ratings perspective and from a

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Speaker 1: listenership perspective in the coming months and years or is

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Speaker 1: this kind of a blip and things will sort themselves

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Speaker 1: out down the line.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt that in Sydney at least, there is

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Speaker 2: no way they will be able to replicate the ratings

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Speaker 2: of Kyle and Jackio in the short term. Today's ratings

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Speaker 2: will be I think from a six week period up

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Speaker 2: until February twenty seven, so Kyle and Jackio will be

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Speaker 2: registered in that rating survey for five of those six weeks,

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Speaker 2: and their ratings in Sydney have been outstanding for a

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Speaker 2: long time and they have held the FM ratings crown

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Speaker 2: for years and years and years. ARM will lose that

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Speaker 2: as of next survey because you can't just drop in

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Speaker 2: an untested team and expect them to garner an audience

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Speaker 2: straight off the bat. So in a way, it's careful

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Speaker 2: what you wish for situation for ARN, because if you

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Speaker 2: don't have a solid breakfast team and this goes across

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Speaker 2: FM and AM, it's a golden rule of radio. If

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Speaker 2: you don't have a solid breakfast team, the rest of

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Speaker 2: your content slate for the rest of the day suffers

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Speaker 2: because you don't have a strong lead in So breakfast

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Speaker 2: is everything in radio and there's going to be some

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Speaker 2: headaches for arn as to who can possibly fill that void.

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Speaker 2: Quite simply the audience that listens to Jackie O. In

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Speaker 2: the short term, we'll go elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: You've mentioned the Sydney audience there. Kyle and JACKIEO, as

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Speaker 1: you said, have been incredibly successful in this market for

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Speaker 1: a very very long time. But we know that Kyle

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Speaker 1: Sandalans in particular doesn't hold the same appeal in other

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Speaker 1: markets across Australia as he does in Sydney. So legal

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Speaker 1: disputes aside, what does Kyle Sandalanz do next?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's true the show failed in Melbourne, but Jackie

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Speaker 2: O and Kyle have a curious kind of celebrity in

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Speaker 2: Australia whereby they are very Sydney figures, and yet they

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Speaker 2: have reasonable profile celebrity profiles at least in other states

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Speaker 2: and cities. So it wouldn't be out of the realms

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Speaker 2: of possibility for Kyle to try and tap other markets

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Speaker 2: either through a podcast or some other form, and Jackie

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Speaker 2: O too because they are known. Certainly might not work

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne, but they haven't really been tested in Brisbane

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Speaker 2: where it could be successful. But I do think he does,

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Speaker 2: as he says himself, have options because he is a

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Speaker 2: readily identifiable radio personality, not by any means widely loved,

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Speaker 2: but widely recognized and that has its own cachet.

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Speaker 1: This is what Kyle had to say about his future

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Speaker 1: employment plans on an episode of the TV talent show

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Speaker 1: Australian Idol this Week, where he's a judge.

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Speaker 3: Yes today, Ricky, I've got nothing else on my mind

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Speaker 3: except for the excitement of the vote and look at you.

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Speaker 3: I also am dressed on this because I have a

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Speaker 3: job interview at Low's after the show. Those radio guys,

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Speaker 3: once you're out of radio, all you can do is

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Speaker 3: sell socks at Low's at Low's. No savior, not you can.

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Speaker 1: James Madden, thank you very much, Thank you, Christen. James

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Speaker 1: Madden is The Australian's Media editor. You can read all

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Speaker 1: his reporting and analysis on this brewing legal drama right

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Speaker 1: now at The Australian dot com dot au