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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front, Unclaire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday May twenty seven, twenty twenty five. Private hospital

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Speaker 1: operator health Scope has collapsed into receivership and the government

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Speaker 1: says it won't use taxpayer funds to bail it out.

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Speaker 1: The receivers will now try to sell off its assets,

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Speaker 1: including the troubled Northern Beaches Hospital in Sydney. There's a

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Speaker 1: huge drama brewing over the Port of Darwin. It's owned

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Speaker 1: by a Chinese government linked firm, but Anthony Albinizi says

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Speaker 1: it must be sold off or forcibly acquired.

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Speaker 2: By the government.

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Speaker 1: Now, a US private equity firm or its strong ties

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Speaker 1: to the Trump administration is preparing to make an offer

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Speaker 1: its owners can't refuse. That's an exclusive live now at

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Speaker 1: the Australian dot com AU. Vladimir Putin is pounding Ukraine

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Speaker 1: more intensely than ever, despite Donald Trump's boasts.

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Speaker 2: He could bring peace within a day.

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Speaker 1: In today's episode, why Trump's peace process has failed and

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Speaker 1: why he can't just walk away.

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Speaker 2: Remember when Donald Trump said this.

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Speaker 3: If I'm president, I will have that war settled in

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Speaker 3: one day twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: That was during the presidential campaign, and he was talking,

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Speaker 1: of course, about Russia's twenty twenty two invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths with.

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Speaker 4: A barrage of missiles on multiple targets right across the country.

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Speaker 1: Trump was inaugurated in January. The war didn't end.

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Speaker 3: We're having very serious discussions about that war.

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Speaker 1: Trying to get it ended with Russia. America's efforts to

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Speaker 1: negotiate a peace resulted in little more than a spectacular

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Speaker 1: blow up in the Oval Office.

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Speaker 2: What kind of diplomacy US became boved?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 4: What do you mean?

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Speaker 5: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to

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Speaker 5: end the destruction of your country has But President, mister President,

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Speaker 5: with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come

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Speaker 5: into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in

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Speaker 5: front of the American media.

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Speaker 1: Going into that meeting, Trump thought he had made a

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Speaker 1: deal with Ukraine's President Volodimi Zelenski. Ukraine would agree to

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Speaker 1: allow America to exploit its critical minerals in return for

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Speaker 1: American protection. That would involve an agreement that Russia could

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Speaker 1: keep the territory it had already seized that would be

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Speaker 1: a huge win for Vladimir Putin, whom Trump has repeatedly praised.

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Speaker 1: Zelensky balked at Pope Francis's funeral in Rome. Other world

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Speaker 1: leaders shepherded Zelensky and Trump together for a brief conversation,

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Speaker 1: and then Trump's rhetoric changed again.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what the hell happened to Putin. I've

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Speaker 6: known him a long time, always gotten along with him.

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Speaker 6: But he's sending rockets into cities and kelly people and

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Speaker 6: I don't like it at all. We're in the middle

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Speaker 6: of talking and he's tuning rockets into Kiev and other cities.

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Speaker 6: He's killing people. And something happened to this guy, and

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Speaker 6: I don't like it.

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Speaker 1: And now on his truth social platform, Trump is doubling down.

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Speaker 1: We've used an AI voice generator to bring his words

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Speaker 1: to life.

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Speaker 3: I've always had a very good relationship with Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 3: of Russia, but something has happened to him. He has

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Speaker 3: gone absolutely crazy. He is needlessly killing a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not just talking about soldiers. Missiles and drones

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Speaker 3: are being shot into cities in Ukraine for no reason whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is the Australian's chief international correspondent, Cam We

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Speaker 1: don't usually see world leaders talking this. Frankly, how do

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Speaker 1: you interpret Donald Trump calling Vladimir Putin crazy?

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Speaker 2: Is this just a Trump tantrum or is it.

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Speaker 1: A big change in the way he's thinking about Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a big change, Claire. I think this

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Speaker 4: is a big moment in this conflict, because what we've

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Speaker 4: really seen ever since earlier this year is Trump trying

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Speaker 4: to get a deal together, trying to intervene personally in

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Speaker 4: this by appeasing Vladimir Putin very deliberately to try and

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Speaker 4: get Putin to the negotiating table in a serious way.

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Speaker 4: He's made all sorts of demands on the Ukrainian Vladimir Zelenski,

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Speaker 4: but not on Putin. He has just held out in

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Speaker 4: the hope that Putin would actually come to the table.

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Speaker 4: He hadn't said anything publicly until now, but Putin has

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Speaker 4: provoked him by having this massive series of attacks on Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: And really, I think a lot of the rest of

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Speaker 4: the world has looked at Trump and been puzzled as

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Speaker 4: to why he has been so tolerant with Putin. He

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Speaker 4: always claimed a good personal relationship with him in the

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Speaker 4: first term as president. He always believed that he could

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Speaker 4: actually use his charm, I guess or his persuasive techniques

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Speaker 4: to actually get Putin to come to the table. But

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Speaker 4: this language suggests that Trump has had enough.

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Speaker 1: Trump's argument all the way along was it Putin just

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Speaker 1: needed to be treated as a businessman. This needed to

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Speaker 1: be a negotiation rather than America accusing him of being

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Speaker 1: a war criminal basically, and that he would respond to that.

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Speaker 2: Was that a miscalculation?

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Speaker 1: Do you think, cam given that Vladimir Putin is not

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Speaker 1: a businessman.

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Speaker 2: He was an agent in.

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Speaker 1: Russia's secret service, the FSB who became president, has a massed,

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Speaker 1: enormous wealth.

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Speaker 2: He's not a businessman like Trump, is he?

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Speaker 4: No, not at all, not at all that you say.

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Speaker 4: He's KGB trained, is very skilled in manipulating people, and

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Speaker 4: he had no particular reason to come to the table.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Putin has a lot greater resources as far

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Speaker 4: as money and manpower than Ukraine does. He sees what's

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Speaker 4: happening in the United States or the Republican Party. The

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Speaker 4: isolation is stwing that doesn't want to give aid to Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: He's not losing the war, he's not particularly winning it,

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Speaker 4: there is a starmate along the front line, and believes

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Speaker 4: the long game is very much in his favor. And

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Speaker 4: so therefore it's Trump that actually doesn't have the cars

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Speaker 4: rather than Pusin.

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Speaker 1: Over the weekend, and this is the thing that triggered

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Speaker 1: Trump's angry social media post, Russia launched one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest single night attacks of the whole war.

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Speaker 2: Why is Vladimir Putin ramping it up now?

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Speaker 4: It's a great question. I think that Vladimir Putin is

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Speaker 4: effectively trying to ape the peace process. I don't think

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Speaker 4: there's any other conclusion you can come to here. Just

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Speaker 4: the other day, after the two hour phone call with Trump,

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Speaker 4: the olive branch that Vladimir Putin put out was that

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Speaker 4: he was happy to start direct negotiations between Ukraine and Russia.

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Speaker 4: And he said that, and then he fired a barrage

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Speaker 4: of missiles over these last coming days, huge attacks on

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Speaker 4: Ukraine and very cruel ones directored towards residential buildings, certainly

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Speaker 4: not military installations. You can only imagine that Putin doesn't

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Speaker 4: want these talks to go ahead, and he's doing everything

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Speaker 4: he can to talk p do them because he just

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Speaker 4: doesn't want peace. And in fact, Donald Trump briefed European

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Speaker 4: leaders some days ago and it was leaked that he

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Speaker 4: had told them that he doesn't think that Putin is

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Speaker 4: ready for peace because he thinks he's winning the war.

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Speaker 1: Russia, of course, has a long history of winning long

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Speaker 1: ground out wars on its own territory or what it

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Speaker 1: considers its territory. Do you think Russia can just grind

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Speaker 1: its way to victory here and never back down?

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Speaker 4: I think Russia has the ability to do it for

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Speaker 4: at least a couple more years. And probably the more

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Speaker 4: important question is they can do it for longer than

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Speaker 4: Ukraine can. Where is Ukraine going to get its resources

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Speaker 4: from now? Obviously Trump wants Europe to step up. Europe

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Speaker 4: has said they will step up in their age to Ukraine,

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Speaker 4: but there are limits to that and Ukraine has a

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Speaker 4: lot of manpower problems. They have fewer resources than Russia

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Speaker 4: on that front. So when you're talking the long game,

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Speaker 4: there is an advantage that Russia has. Does that mean

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Speaker 4: they can eventually roll across Ukraine? That is a huge

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Speaker 4: question which no one can really answer, and that wouldn't

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Speaker 4: be for quite a long time. But certainly the advantage

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Speaker 4: is with Russia as far as time goes.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, So why doesn't Trump just walk away? Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what's on the table right now. Trump and JD.

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Speaker 1: Vance brought to Ukraine an idea that America would invest

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine's critical minerals, and that would involve sending American

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Speaker 1: personnel to Ukraine with an implication of essentially a security

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Speaker 1: guarantee that there would be Americans there and that would

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Speaker 1: mean that America would be heavily invested. Zelensky was open

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Speaker 1: to that. Is that still the way that this would go?

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Speaker 2: Do you think?

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Speaker 6: Well?

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Speaker 4: Zelensky was very annoyed with America firstival in the way

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Speaker 4: that the Trump administration in the sense that he thought

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Speaker 4: they would basically going to take it and not give

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Speaker 4: enough compensation to Ukraine, that it was a violation of

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Speaker 4: sovereignty and sort of finances. Really, but I think Zelenski

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Speaker 4: has come around, especially after the Oval Office blow up

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Speaker 4: between Zelenskin and Trump, He's come around, I think to thinking, look,

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Speaker 4: it's probably better to have American investments in these minerals

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Speaker 4: because Americans will be based there as a result doing that,

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Speaker 4: and that just makes it more difficult for Russia to

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Speaker 4: be rolling across the border when there's American workers there.

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Speaker 4: I think Zelensky has decided that there's a part of

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Speaker 4: the deal. But of course Trump has been very reluctant

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Speaker 4: to give Zelensky any security guarantees as far as in

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Speaker 4: the future if there is a peace deal or a

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Speaker 4: ceasefly deal, and that's been one of the real sticking

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Speaker 4: points for Zelensky. He says, Look, we just can't have

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Speaker 4: a cease fly I deal with Russia if we've got

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Speaker 4: no promise that America will come to our aid.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that Trump has been quite cavalier

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Speaker 1: in talking about is the idea that Ukraine just needs

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Speaker 1: to give up on the territory that Russia considers it

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Speaker 1: has taken over the past several years, even before this

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Speaker 1: latest round of conflicts started beginning. Of course, with Crimea,

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Speaker 1: is Vladimir Zelenski ever going to give up that territory

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Speaker 1: and agree that Vladimir Putin can just have it, Well, he'll.

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Speaker 4: Never admit that it's a part of Russia. That's a

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Speaker 4: big thing for Zelenski. But look, I think that Trump

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Speaker 4: is on the right track here in the sense that

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Speaker 4: if there is going to be a ceasfar idea. It

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Speaker 4: almost certainly has to be along the front line at

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Speaker 4: the moment, because neither side is going to give up

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Speaker 4: what they've actually got at the moment. In fact, Putin

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Speaker 4: wants to. He's annexed three regions of Ukraine, which his

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Speaker 4: troops don't even control all of those regions, so he

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Speaker 4: would have to step back and they would have to

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Speaker 4: agree on a front line settlement. I think that is problematic,

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Speaker 4: but I think it's something that is certainly doable.

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Speaker 1: Zelenski is saying now that what he wants Trump to

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Speaker 1: do is impose tougher economic sanctions on Russia. Why is

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Speaker 1: Trump not doing that or is that the next step?

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Speaker 4: Trump said this week that he is now definitely going

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Speaker 4: to have a good look at sanctions. He's deliberately stayed

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Speaker 4: away from that simply because he wants to get Vladimir

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Speaker 4: Putin to the table, and so he's been so careful

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Speaker 4: not to say that Russia invaded Ukraine and that was

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Speaker 4: a breach of international law. All those things that Putin

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Speaker 4: did wrong when he invaded Ukraine. Trump has been out

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Speaker 4: of backwards, and he's got a lot of criticism for

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Speaker 4: simply not criticizing Putin, so he's deliberately stayed away from sanctions.

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Speaker 4: Now he is talking about him. The great question, of course,

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Speaker 4: that clear is will sanctions be able to change Putin's mind?

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Speaker 4: Because people often forget that there's a lot of sanctions

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Speaker 4: on Russia at the moment. Joe Biden put a lot

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Speaker 4: of sanctions on Russia. There's only so much that sanctions

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Speaker 4: can do, so you can levy more and more sanctions,

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Speaker 4: but it's probably being optimistic to think that sanctions alone

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Speaker 4: would actually change Russia's thinking on this war.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that, of course, the United States could

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Speaker 1: do is dramatically increase the support it gives to Ukraine

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Speaker 1: in terms of money and in terms of the kind

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Speaker 1: of weaponry that Voladimi Zelenski has wanted all along, really

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Speaker 1: aggressive weapons that would allow him to take the fight

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Speaker 1: to Vladimir Putin in Russia.

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Speaker 2: Is that something that could change? Do you think can?

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Speaker 4: I think that would be a very good thing for

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Speaker 4: the Americans to do, because that's the only way Ukraine

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Speaker 4: could actually technically win the war rather than simply hold

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Speaker 4: off Russia, and that is to get long range weapons.

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Speaker 4: You know, if they start lobbying weapons into Moscow, for example,

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Speaker 4: that would change the calculus enormously. As you can imagine,

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump isn't out a bind here. He has been

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Speaker 4: critical of USA to Ukraine military aid, and so this

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Speaker 4: hard for Trump now to turn around and suddenly give

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Speaker 4: a lot of military aid to Ukraine. And that's why

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Speaker 4: he's been saying a that the Europeans need to step

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Speaker 4: up and be the ones who provide the aid to Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: And he's also tried to deal himself out of the

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Speaker 4: equation by saying that it's up to Ukraine and Russia

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Speaker 4: to negotiate. In other words, brackets. I Donald Trump will

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Speaker 4: not be inserting myself into this peace process.

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Speaker 1: Given that big isolation is thread in America and probably

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Speaker 1: in Trump's voter base, why doesn't Trump just throw Ukraine

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Speaker 1: the wolves and say it's not our problem. Europe can

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Speaker 1: deal with it.

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Speaker 4: This is the great dilemma, I think for the Republicans

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Speaker 4: with their isolationist policy here, because he can say that,

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Speaker 4: and in a way he has said it's a European problem,

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Speaker 4: it's not our problem. He said that to a degree,

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Speaker 4: well at the same time trying to solve the actual war.

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Speaker 4: But the trouble for Donald Trump is that he wouldn't

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Speaker 4: want to be the president who loses Ukraine because it

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Speaker 4: would be a black mark against his legacy forevermore. And

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Speaker 4: so Trump is in a bind here. He doesn't want

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Speaker 4: Putin to win, but he doesn't want to be the

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Speaker 4: person who makes the conditions to make him lose.

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Speaker 1: Is there any possibility now, do you think cam that

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Speaker 1: Ukraine will get its ultimate wish, which is to be

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Speaker 1: welcomed into NATO, and the rest of Europe would essentially

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Speaker 1: go to war with Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: I think that NATO won't be on the table for

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Speaker 4: the Ukrainians because I don't think that the NATO countries

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Speaker 4: in Europe want to prove folk Putin a lot more

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Speaker 4: than they already have. But I think what is on

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Speaker 4: the table is that you might see down that track,

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Speaker 4: any cease fire would have to involve European troops peacekeepers

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Speaker 4: being based in Ukraine. Otherwise it is simply a non starter.

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Speaker 4: But to actually invite Ukraine to be a part of NATO,

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Speaker 4: it would be very provocative for Putin, and I'm not

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Speaker 4: sure that the Europeans are ready to do that just yet.

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Speaker 1: Camerin Stewart is the Australian's chief international correspondent. You can

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Speaker 1: read all the latest from the war in Ukraine and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world right now at the Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au