WEBVTT - 10: The Reckoning 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:16.400 Well, it was around ninety ninety five and my partner 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:21.120 at the time was a foreign exchange podcast. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.320 He would have thought that after more than six months 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.000 of investigations in a podcast series where Hams McLaren's shell 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 shocked victims they bare their pain, we'd heard it all. 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.720 But with Hamish, there's always more. We published our last 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.199 episode three months ago, and the human wreckage caused by 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:45.160 this one man continues to wash up. This first story 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.360 goes all the way back to nineteen ninety five, almost 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.320 a quarter of a century ago, when this woman and 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.600 her partner whom we'll call Mark, got tangled up with Hamish. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.120 And it was around the time in Australia where the 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.520 foreign exchange system was changing and they were getting with 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:11.320 his people and putting computers to save money, and he 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.600 was one of well a lot of foreign exchange brokers. 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:22.000 It became entrenched at the time, and as part of 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:28.400 his refrenchment sediment, he got a payout which would sort 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.040 of tied us over for a few months. 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.560 Even back then, Hamish had an innate ability, like a 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:39.080 pig to a truffle, to sniff out a redundancy. Hamish 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.600 proposed a business idea that they import fish and besh 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.560 de mayor see cucumbers from Tonga and the Pacific Islands 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.440 to sell to wealthy Asians in Sydney and China. Neither 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.080 of them had any expertise in fish, but Hamish convinced 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.080 Mark that it was a good idea. He also convinced 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.640 him to put up all the money. Turned up to 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.320 meetings with the Rollics on his wrist, a Swedish model 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.160 on his arm, but never a wallet in his pocket. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.440 So we paid to the meal, and after it I 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.360 said to my partner, I really. 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:10.880 Don't like this guy. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.040 There's something about him. I don't find him. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:13.799 I don't like it. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.920 He did talk to talk, and he did seem to 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.400 have a basic knowledge of what he was talking about 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.320 to the degree where I couldn't fault it because I 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.400 didn't have a better knowledge, so I kind of had 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.000 to go with what It was. Same in terms of 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.160 importing laws, exporting rules, where you get things from how 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:32.880 you important. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.520 Nonetheless, they all flew off to Tomma Hamish with his 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.720 Swedish girlfriend and they spent weeks supposedly setting up the business. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.880 Their tongue in business partner's name was Tavita Hamish would 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.440 later steal that name as well. Mark paid for everything, hotels, flights, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:55.280 the wages of fishermen. Hamish's promises of money never eventuated. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.720 Things turned sour. Money went missing. When they flew back 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.840 to see Sidney. Mark's Mercedes Bends had been stolen. Hamish 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.440 had had the keys. They reported it to police. The 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.240 car was eventually found abandoned in a parking station with 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.040 a wad of finds under the wipers. Mark blew his redundancy. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:17.480 Hamish disappeared. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.000 I just thought it was a run off creek. I 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.720 didn't think this was going to be the beginning of 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.519 a beautiful career for him. And then I thought the 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.120 name of your podcast, and I would I know who 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.960 the health Hamish is, And it all just sort of 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.160 came to me in a blinding inspiration with Jerk is 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:46.040 the same Urk And so I googled images and it's 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:46.640 the same guy. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.880 And what a beautiful career it would be for Hamish. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.680 At least he would go on for a quarter of 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:58.520 a century driving porsches, opening gyms, hiring private jets, buying 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.120 mansions by mountain and by see wooing beautiful women. He 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.920 never wanted to sleep with all of it with other 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.720 people's money. And then he disappear, leaving a trail of 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.800 busted lives and broken marriages. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.960 And he was alwayes thinking, oh, this is this wido 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.000 called Hamish that blew into my life. And now I 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.280 know just like the extent of a conning and corruption 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:21.880 that went on. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.600 Yes, this woman's encounter with Hamish came two decades after 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.120 his tongue on adventures. This woman was working in investment 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.159 management and private equity in Sydney when she got an 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.159 email from a friend. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.040 I got an email saying, Hey, a guy called Hamish 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.240 who I know. He's got multi billion dollar hedge fund 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.679 and he wants to his strength and works with Lisa 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:50.080 Hoe and he wants to start he wants to start 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.760 a private equity fund. But anyway, we met for dinner 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.560 at the Penderlino restaurant in the Strand Arcade with myself, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:07.120 Hamish and a lady called. But he was always saying 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.680 to ask that if we do set up this fun 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.400 you guys all need to put in money to demonstrate 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.320 our commitments. And now I know what I know, I 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:17.839 realize how ridiculous that sounds. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.400 Hamish would always arrive in a luxury vehicle. He referred 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.480 to them as his look back cars. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.960 And you know, Hamish was always you know, talking about 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.000 you know, he's rather surfing, his love of running. You know, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.360 he always had these brand new Porsches. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:33.920 He called them. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.320 He's a book back cars. I said, why are you 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.119 call them a look back home? Because you know, whenever 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.240 I walk away, you know, I look back at the 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.200 car and feel good about the fact that, you know, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.360 I've got such a nice car or something like that. 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.040 So then it was like, oh, what loooks back car 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.400 has you got today, Hamish? And it was always range 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.120 over a Porsche or something like that. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.840 But she became suspicious. She asked to see the details 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.160 of his investment scheme on paper. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.800 I asked to see his investmentment around him and I 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.520 was just a piece of junk. And as soon as 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.160 I read that document, I thought, right, the next time 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.960 we go to lunch, I'm in a confront him. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.159 She went to a lunch meeting with her two friends. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.719 She told Hamies she thought his proposal was rubbish, that 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.640 she didn't believe there are any actual investors in his fund. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.400 And I remember looking at spaces and both of them 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.039 completely fighted with Hamish. They sort of looked at me 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.800 as though I was the crazy one. I said, God, 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:29.840 not it. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.600 That was the last she heard from Hamish. The other 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.000 woman at the table wasn't so fortunate. Like so many others, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:38.960 she fell under Hamish's spell. 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:44.640 Hamish developed a relationship with and gave him a million 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.520 dollars from her super funds. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.960 The woman lost all her money, her marriage disintegram. She 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.480 was too embarrassed to go to the police. We contacted her. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.039 She sent an email saying, my family and I do 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.000 not wish to be involved. All the best with your publication. 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.680 Hames was never charged with this fraud, nor for dozens 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.840 of others amounted to many tens of millions of dollars, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.640 But as we know, after decades of models and look 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.520 back cars, he finally ran out of gas in July 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:32.160 twenty seventeen. Police arrived at his bond Bai apartment and 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.000 led him away in handcuffs. He's been in jail ever since, 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.840 much of it in Sydney's Long Bay, awaiting a verdict, 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.000 having been charged with stealing seven and a half million 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:48.320 dollars from fifteen victims. After all these years, the bill 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:52.520 has finally come due, So how long does he deserve 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:56.040 for these final pages from an epic life of deceit? 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.200 So I think there's often an argument that custodial sentences 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.600 should be used fairly sparingly for white collar offenders, largely 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.280 because they're not seen to pose the type of immediate 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.480 threat to society that violent offenders are. 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.560 We checked back in with Professor Clinton Free, the corporate 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.920 crime expert from the University of Sydney. You heard from 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:19.440 him earlier in this series. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.200 But I think it's also a trap to think of 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.440 white color offenders as a homogeneous group. And I think 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.160 there's a huge world of difference between what your average 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.040 guarden variety fraud offender might get as a sentence and 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:38.520 what someone who commits the sort of premeditated, ruthless, prolonged 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.839 defending that Hamish McLaren has perpetrated here. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.960 Clinton Free has spent years interviewing white collar criminals in jile. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.640 The Sentencing Bench Book, which is published by the Judicial 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:54.360 Commission of New South Wales, sets out five factors for 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.840 determining the objective seriousness of an offense, and I think 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.560 Hamish has to be at the extreme end of the 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.280 continuum on all five things. So the first is the 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.920 amount of money involved, So in this case it's almost 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.360 eight million dollars from multiple victims. The length of time 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.400 over which the offending took place is significant, it's over 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.160 multiple years. The motive for the crime doesn't appear to 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.680 be need, and it doesn't appear to be impulsive. It's greed. 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.840 The level of planning and sophistication is very significant, and 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.240 the breach of trust which is attendant in the crime 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.640 is extremely significant. So on that basis, I think this 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.120 has to be at the extreme end of sort of 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:36.520 a sentence for fraud. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.040 The maximum sentence for a fraud of this nature is 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:43.800 ten years for each charge, And as Clinton Free says, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.559 if Hamius McLaren doesn't get the maximum, who would. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.440 What we know is that it's very rare for a 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.280 fraud offender to get a sentence of an excess of 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.600 a decade in your so far as there are examples 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.559 of it, but it's rare. But I think in this 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.520 case would seem to me that he'd be at that 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.959 extreme end that we would expect to see something ten 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.960 years and beyond. Potentially in mitigation, I guess he's got 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:10.560 the fact that there's a guilty plea. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.479 It took decades for homies to be charged. What this highlights, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.760 the professor says, is how far the police and the 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.760 financial regulators are behind the criminals when it comes to fraud. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.840 I think it's the boom industry and crime fraud, and 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.400 if you think about things like cyber fraud and breaches 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.720 of cybersecurity, these areas where I think there's enormous concern 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.280 and there has to be questions raised about the ability 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.679 of police to grow to deal with that sort of 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.360 growth in that criminal category. I think investment has happened 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:42.400 in the police. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.480 Force, but not at the rate that it needed to happen. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:46.760 I would say it's hard to argue that it has 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.480 happened at the rate that it needs to happen. I think, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.440 especially when you start to push into that sort of 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:56.760 cyber area, which is the top of most organizations fears 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.320 at the moment, the resourcing around the police and that 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:00.679 is problematic. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.640 The only safe place for someone like Hamish McLaren for 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:09.280 the public is behind bars. Clinton Free reckons there's something 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.679 sociopathic and compulsive about Hamish. Fraud is in his makeup. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.560 It's hard to look at that pattern of offending and 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.360 come to a different conclusion. I think, you know, it's 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.800 over such a prolonged period of time, there's multiple vulnerable victims. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:30.280 It's replicated, you know, many many times over. It's hard 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.920 to think that there isn't some element of sort of 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:38.160 sociopath in the thinking. I think the thing that's just 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.520 dumbfounded me and people I've spoken to I've also listened 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.280 to the podcast is just the scale of his offending, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.960 you know, where the fact that this is just replicated 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.520 over such a long period of time, over lot of 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.959 different geographies, So just the pure scale of it is 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:57.600 mind blowing. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.480 Greg Bearer, This podcast Who the Hell Is Hamish is 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.280 brought to you by the Australian newspaper Hamish. Mcfarran's reckoning 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:24.320 has finally arrived and so we'll go back to where 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.440 we begin this podcast in a cab with Tracy Hall 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.480 on the drive down from Sydney's Northern Beaches. In April 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.080 twenty sixteen, Tracy Hall talked for the first time with 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.960 a charming man called Max de Vita. Max never existed 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.000 and today she's off to see the man who invented him. 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.240 On the first Davy sentence hearing, she's tentative but excited. 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:53.280 I'm excited. I want it to be over. I mean, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:54.199 I've waited. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:54.560 Two years for this. 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.040 It's been a long it's been a long two years, 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.840 and it will be just good to have the answer 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.400 and to know where he's going to be for the 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.760 next period of time and just to have that that 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:13.559 door closed. You know, it's another piece of the puzzle that's. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.679 Been filled in what what do you want to say happen? Chraz. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.960 I've thought a lot about this, and I think no 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.600 amount of time is going to be enough for any 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.679 of us to you know, give him his come up 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:32.079 and of what he's done to everybody. So I don't 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.920 think the number is that important because it's out of 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.480 out control. You know, life would be written, but you know, 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:47.079 probably not reasonable or realistic. I think it's important that 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:55.400 you know there's a there's a sentence that reflects the 0:13:55.440 --> 0:14:01.760 magnitude of what he's done and that that's reflected in 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:06.400 the lives that he is. Yeah damage, yeah, yeah. And 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.360 you know, the court case is very factual. Everything's very factual. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.000 But when you've been through it and when you meet 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.440 other people who have been through it and you hear 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:23.440 their stories and listen to everything else that he's done. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.400 It's the impact on the emotional state of people and 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.040 their life that is the most important. You know, money 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:36.000 is money, but how it's affected everyone emotionally. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.360 It's heartbreaking. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.400 For Hamish's crimes to be successful, he had to be 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.080 embedded in the lives of his targets. It made the betrayal, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.680 when it always came, even more hurtful. A number of 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.400 those people he betrayed have since become friends. It's helped 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.720 them sort through the madness of their experience. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:04.600 He you know, he manipulated relationships, and you know he 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.520 leveraged emotion to extract money from us over a long 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.640 period of time for his own financial gain. So I 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.280 do understand how it's hard to comprehend, But when you're 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.320 in it, and when you spend a year and a 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.200 half or two years, or however long it is in 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.560 Beck's case it was five with somebody, these things happen 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.880 very slowly and they creep up on you. And to 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.640 be able to discuss that with somebody else that's been 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.480 through it, that understands and doesn't judge or doesn't ask 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.520 those questions that you just go, well, of course that's 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.160 what happened, you know. It's there's there's comfort. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.480 In that when you think of him, what do you 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:41.240 think of now? 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:48.640 I find it really hard sometimes because my memories of 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.280 him are of Max Teta. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:52.160 Are they're happy memories. 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.200 Yeah, he, by all intents and purposes with you know, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.760 a fictional character, but a great guy, you know, somebody 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.600 who supported me, somebody who we had similar interests, We 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:09.360 had great conversations. He was you know, he was very 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.280 much a part of my you know, my life and 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.720 what I was hoping to do moving forward. So those 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.800 memories that I have to compartmentalize that and go, well, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.440 that's just a fictional character. He just made himself up 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:30.480 and deceived me for nearly eighteen months and really, in 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:34.600 my mind construct him as who he is, as Hamish McLaren. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.800 And so there's a deconstruction going on there and then 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.800 are rebuilding. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.760 Yeah, and I just have to in my mind, I 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.520 have to just go Max Debt it doesn't exist, because 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.880 he doesn't. You know, he's a He's a fictional character 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.960 that was made up to deceive me. Yes, and Hamish 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.480 McLaren I have since come to learn who who he is, 0:16:55.120 --> 0:17:01.640 and through this process with you and the other victims, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:06.359 and what I've learned, I'm seeing very clearly who he is. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.800 Seeing him at the committal hearing when he pleaded guilty. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.800 That was a really cool moment for me because it 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.760 was the first time I had seen him since he 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.639 was arrested and he was in his prison greens. He 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.720 looked old, he didn't talk, he wouldn't look at us, 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:26.639 and that was the first time I saw him for 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.760 who he really was. And we got the court fac 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.399 documents that day, which is the first time when I 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.800 felt that I wasn't alone. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.560 Tracy's getting on with her life. She's now able to 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.320 joke about what happened. She tells me that one of 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.159 her friends met her new boyfriend. He asked him to 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.080 produce one hundred points of identification. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.280 I have been really nervous that this day would be 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.639 delayed again, and you know, it's a big thing to 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.320 have hanging over all of our heads for two years, 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.000 and I haven't been able to sleep very well this week. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:08.040 It's just on my mind. I'm thinking about it. And yeah, 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.360 texts came through saying that it's all systems go and 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:17.320 it's not going to be delayed. And I decided to 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.600 go for a long run and then aswim in the 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:26.000 ocean yesterday, just almost as a middle finger up to 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.119 Hamish because he you know, my experience with him was 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.560 he loved that stuff, and he loved the ocean, and 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.720 he loved running. And I wanted to do something that 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:40.919 he couldn't and it made me so grateful for my 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.440 freedom and the fact I can lie in bed straight 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.000 at night and you know, thinking about where he is 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:50.399 and where he deserves to be. And yeah, that was 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.320 that was something I just wanted to do to lift 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:54.760 my expirits yesterday. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.800 The one burning question she still has is where is 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:58.520 all that money. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.000 We still don't know where the bloody hell the money is, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.679 you know, in all of these so much money, and 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.720 it's not just this case, in everything that we know, 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.480 and it's somewhere. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.280 On the first day of McLaren Sant's hearing a week ago, 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:21.520 Judge Jim Charteris was asking the same question. He did 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.720 a quick calculation and found that in the six years 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.760 covering Hamish's charges, five point four million dollars was missing. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.320 More than nine hundred thousand dollars a year. The judge 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.480 remarked that the only person who knew where the money was, Hamish, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.480 had chosen not to take the witness stand. The day 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.160 did not go well for Hamish. A letter he wrote 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.040 saying how sorry he was was read to the court. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.280 The judge said he appeared to be a late convert 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:52.160 to contrition, con man, he said, might not necessarily be 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.879 a curable condition. He never once locked eyes with his 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.960 victims in the court, including his ex wife beck Roe, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.919 and his ex girlfriend Tracy Hall, and the seventeen year 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.600 old girl Jane with whom he had a predatory affair. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.680 Jane had flown down for the sensing and said she'd 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.800 come back again to see the job. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.240 Done, just to see it through, you know, having gone 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.840 through this whole process, and not just the process over 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.959 the last few months, but the process of the impact 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.919 that he just had on my life and all of 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.159 our lives. Not to see it through, I think I 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:28.960 would regret that. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.639 How did you feel about him not even looking around 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.240 and kind of acknowledging on your looking in your direction. 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.120 Is that not in keeping with his nature? It's all 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.879 a bravado front. He's not strong, He's not powerful. He 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:47.000 doesn't wield any power over any of us. He's a 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.080 coward and that's all it is. And without the money 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.760 and without those showy Bravado fronts, he's nothing. And I 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.840 think that was so in keeping with his nature. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:00.480 As Jane says, coward is in Hamish's DNA. After the 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.920 first day of his hearing, he'd applied to a PVI 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.000 video link when the judge was to deliver his sentence. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.280 But the judge was having none of this. He ordered 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.680 Hamish to the dock. There was now nowhere to hide. 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:17.399 Hamish's lies, which fuelled him for decades, were now bearing 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.840 down on him like an out of control limited edition 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:27.680 runaway Mercedes McLaren. As the victims filed into the public gallery, 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.959 there was a carnival air, like a public stoning. Some 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.120 of those involved had given their kids the day off 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:39.280 school so they could witness this moment, accompanied by their grandmas. 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.919 As a possible mitigating circumstance, McLaren's defense team said he 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.480 may be autistic, but the strengths were dubious. 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.560 Mister McLaren's actions over a number of years have demonstrated 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.000 the callous disregard for the multiple victims of his fraudulent offenses, 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.000 most of whom lost substantial sums of money if they're 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.800 not their life for savings. In this respect, I'm of 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.879 the opinion mister McLaren's actions were likely driven by greed 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:15.360 and efficient personality trays rather than any overt mental illness 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:16.639 or mental disorder. 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.280 Remorse is a key consideration in determining a jailed sense 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:24.280 of course, HAMI said he was sorry. The judge was 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:24.919 having none of it. 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.000 Regrettably, I've come to the view that mister McLaren is 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.600 not remorseful. Mister McLaren is sorry for no one other 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:34.520 than himself. 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:36.680 He needed to make an example of him. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.360 The punishment, by a sense of sentence of imprisonment has 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:43.160 real bite as a deterrent to others. In the case 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.800 of white color crime, it's often a choice. Why color 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.040 crime freely made by well educated people from privileg's background. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.520 It's prompted by greed. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.160 The offending was exacerbated by his close association with his victims. 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.639 Accept the offender abused his position of trust in relation 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:06.679 to every offense. I accept he cunningly planned and organized 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:13.879 this serious criminal activity. The offenses were committed for financial gain. 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:18.520 The only mitigating feature is that he has pleaded guilty. 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:24.440 I accept he continue to engage in this behavior even 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:29.600 though he was brought to bankruptcy by one of the victims. 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:33.399 The extent of his criminal activity makes a finding of 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:38.000 good character for his first offense of very little Bay. 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.159 After a long career as a criminal lawyer and a judge, 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:44.920 it just happened to be judged Charteris's very last day 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:48.119 on the bench. He was not to be rushed. For 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.560 two hours, he poured over the evil deeds of Hams 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:55.200 McLaren and how he deceived and damaged each of his victims. 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.040 On his final day of judgment, his focus was on 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.879 the victims. His assessment was methodical and damning. 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:17.320 I will that now deal with the individual assessments as 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:22.800 regards the offenses against miss now Rattle. The offensa took 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.879 five hundred and sixty four thousand dollars a sentence of 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.760