Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. Anthony.
Speaker 1: Albanese have recently returned from a major overseas trip, rubbing
Speaker 1: shoulders with royalty and sharing the stage with world leaders.
Speaker 1: But behind the scenes there was also quiet discussions about
Speaker 1: a possible plan B for Orcus. With Parliament about to
Speaker 1: sit again, his government faces pressure from the cross bench
Speaker 1: over defense and foreign policy, while the Opposition is consumed
Speaker 1: by internal divisions and power plays. Today, contributing editor at
Speaker 1: the New Daily, Amy remikuz or what Alberanzi really brought
Speaker 1: back from his overseas tour and how the coalition's implosion
Speaker 1: is reshaping politics in Canberra. It's Saturday, October four. Anthony
Speaker 1: Alberzi has been on a massive overseas trip. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about the itinerary. Of course in New York, where
Speaker 1: he've got a lot of coverage as he recognized Palestine
Speaker 1: at the UN but he had another meeting there which
Speaker 1: got less attention. Can you tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he had about forty minutes with Emmanuel Macron,
Speaker 2: the President of France, which is not insignificant, and it
Speaker 2: does show that while we have been focused domestically on
Speaker 2: the US alliance, Australia's alliance with certain European countries, including France,
Speaker 2: who have a lot of sway in things like NATO
Speaker 2: and the direction of the EU have kind of gone
Speaker 2: under reported, but are no less important. And so in
Speaker 2: that discussion we know that they talked about recognition of Palestine,
Speaker 2: but we also know that they would have talked about
Speaker 2: Europe's strategic future that includes the future of NATO, which
Speaker 2: Australia is not part of but does partner with. And
Speaker 2: I think we can also surmise that Macron would have
Speaker 2: reiterated a recent offer that he made to Anthony Albanizi,
Speaker 2: which is that the friend submarines are still on the
Speaker 2: table if Australia needs them.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: That hasn't got a lot of attention either, but not
Speaker 2: so long ago, Emmanuel Macron.
Speaker 3: Said that yes, he had reiterated that.
Speaker 2: Under the Albanese government, if Orcus fell over, France was
Speaker 2: still willing and able to set up Australia with submarines
Speaker 2: in the future.
Speaker 3: That was politely declined.
Speaker 2: But I think that given the two way conversation that's
Speaker 2: going on between Australia and France, that there is a
Speaker 2: little bit of a signal that a Plan B if
Speaker 2: Orcust falls over is in the works.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that Plan B a little bit later.
Speaker 1: But from New York the Prime Minister flew to the UK.
Speaker 1: What was on the agenda there.
Speaker 2: So the UK trip was also a bit of a whirlwind.
Speaker 2: So it was meeting with care Starmer, the Labor Prime Minister.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: He also got to meet with Charlie Boy with King
Speaker 2: Charles and basically kissed the ring. And he had other
Speaker 2: meetings with politicians, but not with Nigel Fara, which the
Speaker 2: UK polls tell us would be prime minister if an
Speaker 2: election was held today or tomorrow, which you know, if
Speaker 2: you're UK Labor and you're only a year or so
Speaker 2: into your government, that has to make you feel great.
Speaker 2: And he also went to the Labor conference, So the
Speaker 2: UK Labor conference.
Speaker 3: Here in Liverpool.
Speaker 4: We're ten thousand miles from where I joined the Labor Party.
Speaker 4: A long and winding road. Got that in early.
Speaker 3: He called care Starmer a dear friend of he's a
Speaker 3: dear mate.
Speaker 4: Thank you to my mate and your leader, Prime Minister Kirstar.
Speaker 2: And he said things like, you know, being a part
Speaker 2: of the labor movement is always very difficult, but we
Speaker 2: have to remember that at the root of it is
Speaker 2: fairness and that's what we're all fighting for.
Speaker 4: When they grasped that for Labor to continue to be
Speaker 4: the party of fairness and justice, we had to become
Speaker 4: a party for the elimination of discrimination and prejudice.
Speaker 2: Which I think, you know, anyone who's watching UK politics
Speaker 2: and indeed Australian politics, would probably raise their eyebrows at
Speaker 2: because we're not seeing a lot of progressive fairness from
Speaker 2: either Labor government in twenty twenty five, and that is
Speaker 2: one of the issues that both prime ministers are facing,
Speaker 2: not just in their base, but in the people who
Speaker 2: have given them a chance.
Speaker 1: I can tell us a bit about the discussions Albanezi
Speaker 1: and Starma we're having about defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really interesting and I think this pulls
Speaker 2: into some of that Plan B that we've been talking
Speaker 2: about with Orcus, which is not really being reported at
Speaker 2: the moment. Starma, i think, is looking at the Orchist
Speaker 2: deal and having the same questions that many within Australia,
Speaker 2: including the government, are having about whether the US can
Speaker 2: be trusted to feel their part of the deal. And
Speaker 2: so we're starting to see Australia and the United Kingdom
Speaker 2: come together and start to strengthen their part of the deal.
Speaker 3: So if the US.
Speaker 2: Continues to go off the deep end, we are not
Speaker 2: left holding the can here with no submarines. And that's
Speaker 2: where France comes in again, because if they do continue
Speaker 2: to make the offer for Australia to have those submarines,
Speaker 2: which is important for Australia to have some strategic capacity
Speaker 2: to defend itself. That means that there is opportunity for
Speaker 2: Australia to still have submarines if they get out of ORCAS.
Speaker 2: And we do know, or we can at least surmise
Speaker 2: that the UK and Australia are having these conversations about
Speaker 2: what happens if the US goes completely batshit crazy.
Speaker 1: There was report in Nicoasia that the Longer Way to
Speaker 1: Trump review into ORCUS has labeled that deal safe. What
Speaker 1: do we know about that?
Speaker 2: So we don't have any more details in terms of
Speaker 2: like what safe actually means and whether that's going to
Speaker 2: come with any additional conditions. We do know that they've
Speaker 2: given it the tick and flick, so it will continue
Speaker 2: going to the next stage. And honestly, there's no reason
Speaker 2: why it wouldn't because this stage of the Orcist program
Speaker 2: is Australia giving billions of dollars to the United States
Speaker 2: for the United States to increase their own capacity to
Speaker 2: build the submarines, because the US has to meet its
Speaker 2: own needs before it gets started. In Australia, we know
Speaker 2: they are not meeting their own needs and so the
Speaker 2: actual logic that they're going to be able to trevel
Speaker 2: production to ensure that Australia also gets theirs is just
Speaker 2: it's not on the table at the moment.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: The UK have done a review, the US have done
Speaker 2: a review. Australia, who is handing money hand over fist
Speaker 2: to the United States, and the United Kingdom are the
Speaker 2: only people involved in this deal who have not ordered
Speaker 2: a review into Orcus, and that is something that the
Speaker 2: Crossbench are really starting to push that we really want
Speaker 2: to see a parliamentary review into Orcus, which makes sense
Speaker 2: because this was a deal that was cooked up by
Speaker 2: Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison.
Speaker 3: It didn't go to Cabinet, it didn't go.
Speaker 2: To Treasury, and I think that what the Crossbench is
Speaker 2: saying is that Australians really deserve to understand what this
Speaker 2: deal means and to understand and have a say in
Speaker 2: whether this deal is something that is good for us.
Speaker 1: Coming up, how long will Susan Lee keep her job?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to be a big week in
Speaker 1: Canberra next week with Senate estimates. What are we likely
Speaker 1: to see the government grilled on?
Speaker 2: So we're going to see questions over some of the
Speaker 2: changes to Australia's democracy. That includes the bill that was
Speaker 2: passed in the last parliament that essentially makes it very
Speaker 2: difficult financially for anybody who is not part of a
Speaker 2: major party to enter the parliament in coming elections that
Speaker 2: ticks in. I think at the next election we're going
Speaker 2: to see major questions about that. We're going to see
Speaker 2: major questions about the FOI laws that the government wants
Speaker 2: to introduce, which makes it very very difficult for people
Speaker 2: to be able to get information that the government does
Speaker 2: not want you to have. We're going to have questions
Speaker 2: about the Climate Target, which is understandable because it's a
Speaker 2: range and we don't know what exactly the government is
Speaker 2: considering when they talk about that range and what actions
Speaker 2: they're going to be put in. We're also going to
Speaker 2: start seeing a little bit more about energy policy, infrastructure spending,
Speaker 2: all of those things that are not very sexy in
Speaker 2: political terms but actually need to have some scrutiny. But
Speaker 2: what I find interesting is we have seen a shift
Speaker 2: since the May election where the cross Bench are really
Speaker 2: starting to take these issues even more seriously. Because we
Speaker 2: don't really have an opposition in Australia in the way
Speaker 2: that we're used to having it. The coalition is in
Speaker 2: such disarray, they're not focusing on any of the policy
Speaker 2: issues that you would expect an opposition to be elevating
Speaker 2: in public discourse. And what that means is that the
Speaker 2: government gets to kind of skate through a lot of things.
Speaker 1: If we look at the coalition, Susan Lee survived another
Speaker 1: week as leader, but the beef in the coalition seems
Speaker 1: to be spilling out all over the place. How long
Speaker 1: do you expect her to be able to hold on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, survive another week is a really good way of
Speaker 2: putting it. I mean, I think Susan Lee is going
Speaker 2: to last for as long as the coalition pretends that
Speaker 2: it's doing all of these policy reviews. Because none of
Speaker 2: the people who want the leadership want ownership over those reviews.
Speaker 2: They don't want ownership over the policy mess, and there
Speaker 2: is an absolute policy mess happening within the coalition at
Speaker 2: the moment. We've had Dan Tee and who's just returned
Speaker 2: from being wined and dined in the United States and
Speaker 2: other places talking about nuclear again and how that's absolutely
Speaker 2: going to have.
Speaker 3: To be on the agenda.
Speaker 5: What I've been hearing and what I saw while I
Speaker 5: was over in the US visiting large national laboratories at
Speaker 5: Idaho and Oakringe is basically a nuclear renaissance, the amount.
Speaker 2: Of So you have a party that's talking about the
Speaker 2: need to lower energy costs is their number one issue,
Speaker 2: and their answer to that is choosing the most expensive
Speaker 2: form of energy that you could possibly imagine, and they're
Speaker 2: willing to die on that hill. So we know that
Speaker 2: it's getting bad enough that the tensions for the leadership
Speaker 2: are starting to spill into the public.
Speaker 6: Go out there and listen to the punters. People are
Speaker 6: crying out for a new leader in the Liberal Party.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, Susan.
Speaker 2: So you have Andrew Hasty who is mobilizing to either
Speaker 2: set himself up as the leader of the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: or whatever emerges from the wreckage of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 6: The federal Liberal MP Andrew Hasty, he has quit the
Speaker 6: shadow cabinet because of a disagreement about immigration policy. He
Speaker 6: had been appointed the shadow Home Affairs Minister under the
Speaker 6: Opposition leader Susan Lee.
Speaker 2: Because history would say that this coalition probably won't see
Speaker 2: out the decade as the coalition as we're all used
Speaker 2: to seeing it in post war Australia, they have a
Speaker 2: very low representation in the House of Representatives, they have
Speaker 2: no authority over the branches their own members the Parliament
Speaker 2: or the Executive. They have no policy platform and they
Speaker 2: have no cohesiveness. So you see the Nationals freelancing on
Speaker 2: policy that is not going to stop. You see the
Speaker 2: Liberals starting to freelance on policy that is not going
Speaker 2: to stop. And honestly, I think we should probably just
Speaker 2: put all of that mess back in the cupboard and
Speaker 2: then just continue on as if they weren't there, because
Speaker 2: they have zero impact on public policy at this point
Speaker 2: in time.
Speaker 1: And it's also a sitting week for the House of
Speaker 1: Rip in these with Labour absolutely dominating by numbers. So
Speaker 1: while the Independents are the new opposition and the coalition
Speaker 1: is imploding, what are the government's priorities. How are they
Speaker 1: using this runway?
Speaker 2: Well, so far they've basically just been carrying out their
Speaker 2: election mandate, which, if anyone remembers back to May when
Speaker 2: the election was going on, was very small target, very
Speaker 2: narrow boundaries in terms of reform.
Speaker 3: We're seeing some of the fruits of that.
Speaker 2: So we've seen this week the government push forward with
Speaker 2: extending its five percent deposit scheme, which basically means that
Speaker 2: if you only have five percent saved up for a
Speaker 2: house deposit, you don't have to worry about having.
Speaker 3: Lender's mortgage insurance.
Speaker 2: We've had Albanezi and admit that that is going to
Speaker 2: juce house prices. It didn't really get much attention because
Speaker 2: there's not much of a you know, established opposition really
Speaker 2: looking at all of this, and so it just was like, okay, yes, sure,
Speaker 2: house prices are going to continue to go up next,
Speaker 2: which is sort of where we're at. We had interest
Speaker 2: rates where they held the RBA. Hell, despite the fact
Speaker 2: that yes, the economy is slowing down, that we're starting
Speaker 2: to see unemployment tick up again, we're starting to see
Speaker 2: that there is not as much money flowing around in
Speaker 2: the economy as you would like. Again, everyone just kind
Speaker 2: of was like, oh, yep, nope, that's what we expected.
Speaker 2: There's a real political fatigue I feel in Australia at
Speaker 2: the moment because there is a government that is not
Speaker 2: coming through with any major reforms, any big changes that
Speaker 2: are actually going to help people's lives.
Speaker 3: So I think people are starting to really switch.
Speaker 2: Off from politics at the moment, which I think is
Speaker 2: a bad sign. That's how you lead to issues like
Speaker 2: what you're seeing in the UK, where people start turning
Speaker 2: more and more to populist politics who don't have the
Speaker 2: answers but give you permission to be angry. We've seen
Speaker 2: that happen in the United States as well. It's not
Speaker 2: a great place to be in. So I think that
Speaker 2: there's going to get.
Speaker 3: A point a crunch time for labor.
Speaker 2: They have to actually start offering people hope that there
Speaker 2: is going to be changed, that they can and will
Speaker 2: make the bold, brave changes that are necessary for people
Speaker 2: to see improvements to their lives.
Speaker 1: Amy, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this Saturday edition of seven AM.
Speaker 1: On Monday, we're bringing you an episode about the Parliament
Speaker 1: Sports Club, a casual get together. Are politicians, staffers and
Speaker 1: others who play sport together on Wednesday mornings during sitting weeks.
Speaker 1: But recently that club reregistered as a lobbying organization. Its
Speaker 1: board includes the Prime Minister, its members include representaees from
Speaker 1: the major sporting codes, and one of its sponsors is
Speaker 1: the Gambling Lobbying So is this impacting the government's willingness
Speaker 1: to act on much needed gambling reform? See you on
Speaker 1: Monday for the